00:00 |
* |
asciilifeform lost count of just how many kludges he tried -- e.g. one where a hypertext 'editing box' (in various gui kits) is kept around in 2 instances, 1 in 'links clickable' mode and other where not, and 'unhidden' appropriately. flickering garbage & malformed reflow in all cases. |
00:01 |
* |
asciilifeform even tried patching 'qt' to support sanity. drowned in liquishit. |
00:02 |
asciilifeform |
not that it'd even build today if i'd in fact succeeded in this patching 10y+ ago.. |
| |
~ 48 minutes ~ |
00:50 |
signpost |
yep, I think anyone effective has a harsh approximation of this personal database kicking around. |
00:50 |
* |
signpost has started and stopped using org mode many times, for example. |
| |
~ 2 hours 30 minutes ~ |
03:21 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: metoo |
03:32 |
asciilifeform |
meanwhile in misc. heathenmail. |
03:36 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: errybody can stand up a db. the described item is imho the Right Thing in re: a db that can be operated in 'flow state' with minimal friction. |
| |
↖ |
03:36 |
asciilifeform |
or, at any rate, asciilifeform finds all current attempts direly inadequate specifically on acct of not conforming to the described interface above. |
| |
~ 6 hours 15 minutes ~ |
09:52 |
d4 |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-31#1070705 then you should take a look at this nice FAQ about plotting into terminal and this thread about plotting internals of your programs. TL;DR: some terminals can render svg; dumping program state and serializing to |
| |
↖ |
09:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-12-31 03:21:37 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-28#1069960 I'll be investigating this soon. |
09:52 |
d4 |
dot (graphviz) is useful. |
| |
~ 2 hours 6 minutes ~ |
11:58 |
cgra |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-03#1015789 << in recent eclipse versions (the java-land behemoth, likely much like intellij idea and netbeans etc) a "live semantic edit" is a thing (no idea how generic tho), as is the usual code-completion. also would guess link navigation is not a |
11:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-07-03 19:26:00 asciilifeform: i.e. could write the proggy, but turned out 100% impossible to make the editor behave as specified, with e.g. links being clickable ~while text box is editable~ (no modality liquishit pleez) , with completor/selector box, etc |
11:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-05 14:43:54 signpost: I also use the shit out of intellij on dumpster-puters. |
11:58 |
cgra |
problem, given jumping to function and variable declarations is another eclipse standard item |
11:58 |
cgra |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-03#1070901 << though, the handful of times i dipped my toe in the java swing gui poop pond, this sounds like it should induce similar reaction (not 100% sure though, whether a swing creation or smth else) |
11:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-03 18:10:29 asciilifeform: thinks about mcclim, gets just shorta physically ill recalling the ui kit |
11:59 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: find it perhaps worth a deeper dig? |
12:03 |
cgra |
the eclipse youtube links i dug are some random items i didn't even listen to. prolly just fughetabout the whatever rest in them, except for the visual action on exact linked video position |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
12:25 |
cgra |
one q that comes to my mind is how may such eclipse contraptions be mixed with rich text and graphics. though did asciilifeform find a bare plaintext item worth existing? |
| |
~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~ |
13:44 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: asciilifeform did hard time in a java salt mine, has used both eclipse and intellij, but doesn't see what they have to do with the described item. coad completion per se worx even in my emacs (via 'auto-complete' and 'popup'). |
13:45 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: that aint the hard part. the hard (and seemingly impossible part) is permitting ~clickable~ links in edit box ~while it is editable~, none of the existing gui kits for x11 seem to support it. |
| |
↖ |
13:46 |
asciilifeform |
concretely, ~directly left-clickable~ |
13:46 |
asciilifeform |
no modality, no rightclickism |
13:47 |
asciilifeform |
neither wx, nor qt, nor gtk, permit any such thing, and asciilifeform's many attempts to kludge it into existence led nowhere. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
13:48 |
asciilifeform |
it ~may~ be implementable in a proggy which contains a complete font rendering stack of its own (e.g. emacs) but asciilifeform specifically does not want it in emacs or in www browser |
| |
↖ |
13:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-07-03 19:27:09 asciilifeform: apparently such proggy can only be written if write 100% of graphics stack (incl. font renderer) from 0. as in e.g. emacs (before anyone asks, i ~specifically~ did not and still do not want this kinda thing as elisp progggy -- it'll 100% guaranteed choke on 200MB+ of indexable db.. ) |
13:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-03 18:46:57 asciilifeform: also ftr NOT interested in any 'solution' which involves a www browser or sawed-off components thereof, in any way. |
13:49 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i've been following your description of this UI, if left clicking the word follows the link that would mean the default left click behavior (move text cursor to pointer location) wouldn't work, correct? |
13:49 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: correct, to navigate into a link would use kbd |
13:50 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: clicking anywhere else oughta have the default behaviour tho |
13:50 |
billymg |
ah, so left click doesn't follow the link, but selects it, then additional keypress to follow? |
13:50 |
asciilifeform |
specifically not what i want, aha |
13:51 |
billymg |
then i misunderstood "to navigate into a link" |
13:51 |
asciilifeform |
it disrupts flow. |
13:51 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-03 22:28:06 asciilifeform: signpost: errybody can stand up a db. the described item is imho the Right Thing in re: a db that can be operated in 'flow state' with minimal friction. |
13:51 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: 'navigate into a link' i.e. into its text |
13:51 |
billymg |
ah, like move cursor into the word |
13:51 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
13:52 |
* |
billymg would be interested to see napkin sketches if asciilifeform were to upload them to his blog |
13:52 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: yest.'s thrd is the most detailed description asciilifeform posted to date; imho it is entirely complete |
13:53 |
billymg |
how do you feel about modifier key for the link follow behavior? |
13:53 |
asciilifeform |
absolutely no go |
13:53 |
asciilifeform |
to date this was the reaction of erryone asciilifeform described the thing to , in meatspace. 'what do you mean, you want a machine screw? have this here wood screw' |
| |
↖ |
13:54 |
billymg |
why not with a modifier key? your right hand has already moved to the mouse to target the link, your left hand is still on the keyboard, no? |
13:54 |
asciilifeform |
disrupts flow. |
13:54 |
asciilifeform |
whole thing is concretely, specifically about ~not doing that~ |
13:55 |
billymg |
doesn't moving hand to the mouse disrupt flow? when reading the description yesterday i sort of imagined this as some kbd only UI |
13:55 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: nope. |
13:56 |
asciilifeform |
when holding mouse, the widget oughta behave precisely like a traditional www browser. |
13:56 |
billymg |
i see |
13:56 |
asciilifeform |
where you dun have to press any keys to click a link |
13:56 |
billymg |
right, simply left click |
13:56 |
asciilifeform |
correct. |
13:57 |
billymg |
or middle click if you want "open in new tab" |
13:57 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
13:57 |
* |
asciilifeform implemented various 'halfway' kludges as described above, found 0 of them usable |
13:57 |
billymg |
ok, so is the reason for "no right clickism" so that it mimics the browser, and so that your brain doesn't have to remap finger movements when moving between this and a browser? |
13:58 |
asciilifeform |
correct |
13:58 |
billymg |
like cgra pointed out, most IDEs do some form of modifier + click to navigate to e.g. function defintion |
13:58 |
asciilifeform |
indeed |
13:59 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. they're modal |
13:59 |
billymg |
ok, so left click simply follows the link (if the word is a link), otherwise inserts cursor at location |
13:59 |
asciilifeform |
correct |
14:00 |
asciilifeform |
(tho not merely word, but entire string b/w [ ] incl. whitespace, as if in browser) |
14:00 |
billymg |
and if you want the cursor in a link you gotta move it there with kbd. how about modifier to insert cursor, as an added nicety? e.g. alt-left-click inserts cursor in linked word, rather than following? |
14:00 |
asciilifeform |
no objection to a modifier which ~inhibits~ link activation |
| |
↖ |
14:00 |
asciilifeform |
prolly would be handy |
14:02 |
billymg |
and you would use this as a standalone app? |
14:02 |
asciilifeform |
the other tricky aspect is for the 'syntax highlighting' to work in real time (i.e. after ~any~ key press, the linkism content of the edit box ~must~ be correct), but this part grudgingly worked in qt after heavy massage |
14:02 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: correct, standalone compiled proggy |
14:03 |
billymg |
standalone except for the db, which as you mentioned, could be e.g. postgers? |
14:03 |
billymg |
postgres* |
14:03 |
asciilifeform |
db ideally pluggable: postgres, sqlite, etc. per user preference |
14:03 |
asciilifeform |
that there's the easy part |
14:05 |
billymg |
i found this yesterday because i was curious what my preferred editor was using under the hood: https://forum.sublimetext.com/t/is-qt-framwork-is-use-used-in-sublime/38489 |
14:05 |
billymg |
apparently they wrote their own UI framework |
14:05 |
asciilifeform |
the completer box oughta work w/out lag even if 1e7+ node titles; and work when text entered from ~inside~ string, not merely start of it; this i expect requires an adult db |
14:06 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: correct, just as emacs has own renderer |
14:06 |
asciilifeform |
'sublime' as i understand is sumthing like a commercial emacs w/ python in place of elisp |
14:07 |
billymg |
curious why no emacsisms? if someone were to create, in terms of spec, ideal version of this UI in emacs, why not use? |
14:07 |
asciilifeform |
cuz it will lag on GB+ db. even my current emacs lags on 1e3+ completer entries |
14:07 |
asciilifeform |
elisp is dog slow |
14:08 |
asciilifeform |
mine even lags on MB+ text buffers. |
14:08 |
billymg |
i wonder if sublime text would also have this problem |
14:09 |
asciilifeform |
and if w/ highlighting, mishighlights all the time |
14:09 |
billymg |
because one thought was of course a sublime text plugin |
14:09 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: nfi, i've not used sublime at length (at instigation of various folx, tried it, found the smooth scrolling neat circus trick, but quickly barfed from being unable to use own collection of elispisms) |
14:10 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: not very interested in implementing an essential util on closed lulware |
14:10 |
billymg |
ok, right, but you said you'd use this personal DB app as a standalone app |
14:10 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
14:10 |
billymg |
that's fair |
14:10 |
billymg |
re: closed source |
14:10 |
asciilifeform |
needs to be standalone, and compiled |
14:11 |
asciilifeform |
ideally also to work on >1 os, but this part not vital, would be happy to use one bound to x11 |
14:14 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: it is asciilifeform's current understanding that the thing cannot be made at all w/out implementing a complete text renderer. which has only been done to date a few times, and is easily 1e4 man hours, if you're aiming to end up with sumthing that doesn't make user choke on own vomit. |
14:15 |
billymg |
yeah, that's sort of the conclusion i came to, you'd have to do what the ST folks did and write their own UI engine |
14:15 |
billymg |
your own* |
14:15 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. demands scalable font renderer |
14:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-07-03 19:59:31 asciilifeform: ( using bitmap font also quickly ruled out, asciilifeform regularly inhabits screens w/ at least 6 variant pixel densities ) |
14:17 |
asciilifeform |
this is wai the proggy dun exist, billymg |
14:17 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform does not have the 1e4+ hrs. |
14:18 |
asciilifeform |
it's a 'sane os - complete' problem. |
14:19 |
asciilifeform |
and a testament to the obstructive idiocy of not only gui designers to date, but whole 'c machine' paradigm where it is impossible to meaningfully modify behaviour of existing lib |
14:19 |
asciilifeform |
(why the fuck can't make gtk's text box have clickable links while editable? 'because reasons') |
14:20 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: clicking a link, to start editing it's text, would that be a right-click in your prog? |
14:23 |
cgra |
i rushed to ask q, found answer when read further |
14:23 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-04 09:00:38 asciilifeform: no objection to a modifier which ~inhibits~ link activation |
14:32 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: in your flow, how do you backtrack link click trail? |
14:36 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: similarly to www browsers -- alt-arrows or 'back button' |
14:37 |
asciilifeform |
the ui resembles www browser, with the exception of the text being editable (as described) |
14:38 |
asciilifeform |
where www browser has url bar, there's a noad title bar, where may select (with completionism similarly to what described earlier) from all nodes in db. |
14:38 |
asciilifeform |
a toggleable sidebar shows backlinks of current node (i.e. list of all nodes which link to same atm) |
14:39 |
asciilifeform |
all clickable |
| |
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~ |
15:52 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
15:52 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $47057.74 |
15:52 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
15:52 |
watchglass |
Polling 14 nodes... |
15:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
15:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=717173 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.021s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=717173 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.050s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=717173 (Operator: whaack) |
15:52 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.092s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
15:52 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.244s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.253s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.310s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=716830 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.355s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717001 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.595s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 |
15:52 |
watchglass |
75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.423s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717173 |
15:54 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-04#1070937 << wondering whether any of these xterm replacements will actually build on dulap-gentoo. anybody tried ? |
15:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-04 04:44:14 d4: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-31#1070705 then you should take a look at this nice FAQ about plotting into terminal and this thread about plotting internals of your programs. TL;DR: some terminals can render svg; dumping program state and serializing to |
15:55 |
asciilifeform |
( it aint necessary for asciilifeform's req. but seems useful imho ) |
15:55 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-12-27 13:08:55 asciilifeform: in search of a decent text-driven diagram shitter, if not finds one may use latex |
15:55 |
* |
asciilifeform to this day uses plain old 'xterm', config'd to remove scroll bars and all other mouse knobs |
15:57 |
asciilifeform |
concretely, xterm -fg green -bg black -fn "-b&h-lucidatypewriter-medium-r-normal-sans-28-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1" |
15:57 |
* |
asciilifeform has it bound to a key in 'ratpoison', typically has coupla dozen going at a given time |
| |
~ 59 minutes ~ |
16:57 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: yer pestlogger seems to be down |
| |
~ 35 minutes ~ |
17:33 |
billymg |
god dammit |
17:33 |
billymg |
restarted |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
ty billymg |
| |
~ 1 hours 23 minutes ~ |
18:59 |
asciilifeform |
to round off prev.thread -- asciilifeform attempted at one time to bolt x11ism support to 'tinyscheme' to try to bake this. ended up barfing, found ~impossible to make clean, antialiased, flicker-free anyffin at all |
18:59 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-04 08:48:53 asciilifeform: it ~may~ be implementable in a proggy which contains a complete font rendering stack of its own (e.g. emacs) but asciilifeform specifically does not want it in emacs or in www browser |
19:00 |
asciilifeform |
emacs took ~halfcentury and STILL TO THIS DAY sluggish (when syntaxhighlighting) and emits artifacts |
19:01 |
asciilifeform |
tried even opengl libs, found entirely impossible to use for clean text rendering (it aint designed for it, smudges) |
19:02 |
asciilifeform |
the amt of complexity involved even in replicating the pile of shit that is emacs renderer is gargantuan. |
19:03 |
* |
asciilifeform would dearly luvv to hear even half-baked thoughts re possible solutions to this puzzler, if any reader happens to have such. |
19:04 |
asciilifeform |
currently no closer to a solution than in 2007. |
19:11 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: just found out that, while eclipse has by default this 'press ctrl and hovering mouse over interesting code bits turns them into hyperlinks', it also allows for the same work ~without any modifier key~ |
19:11 |
cgra |
from settings dialog: ""On demand hyperlinks are shown when moving the mouse in the editor while the specified modifier is pressed. The hyperlinks appear on mouse move when no modifier is specified."" |
19:12 |
cgra |
(tried it out, verified a thing) |
19:12 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: hm, what means 'appear on mouse move' ? |
19:13 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: move mouse on the interesting bit and it turns into a hyperlink under the mouse. you can now click the link if you like |
19:13 |
asciilifeform |
but when mouse not moving, text is default colour? |
19:14 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: well, the link disappears only after mouse leaves the hotspot |
19:14 |
asciilifeform |
nogood obv |
19:15 |
cgra |
because not always link? |
19:15 |
asciilifeform |
(not that asciilifeform would want to use a GB of java liquishit, at any rate, for same reason as not want emacs or hacked www browser) |
19:15 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: correct |
19:15 |
asciilifeform |
the thing needs to resemble www browser exactly (with the difference that the text is editable in realtime) |
19:17 |
asciilifeform |
link gotta appear as soon as a closing ']' appears in the editor |
19:17 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: right. was thinking that maybe this hints it being doable -- doesn't prove though. |
19:17 |
asciilifeform |
(and 'unlinkify' immed. if the latter is removed) |
19:18 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: it's of course doable if one writes an entire graphics stack (as in emacs, eclipse, sublime, etc) |
19:18 |
asciilifeform |
dun appear to be doable using any existing one tho |
19:19 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: you believe what scrap lies underneath eclipse, belongs necessarily to this group? |
19:19 |
asciilifeform |
well java has own text renderer thing |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
( 'swt' ) |
19:20 |
cgra |
so while this looks awfully lot close to what you're looking for, a known roadblock will eventually surface? |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
iirc in linux uses gtk for the viewport |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: well in the case of eclipse, the block is java |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
i aint using java. for anyffin. |
19:20 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: ah ok. that seals the deal |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
19:21 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: are you meanwhile using a modifier-click variant or "nothing"? |
19:21 |
asciilifeform |
uninterested in that for the same reason i dun want the thing as a vs plugin or pile of js liquishit in chrome |
19:21 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: 'nothing' |
19:21 |
asciilifeform |
(piles of txt files) |
19:22 |
cgra |
how do you jump between? |
19:22 |
asciilifeform |
manually. |
19:22 |
asciilifeform |
pile o' txt files, grep, emacs. |
19:22 |
cgra |
modifier-click variant wouldn't beat that? |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
nope |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
'just-short' frustrates asciilifeform considerably moar than 'nothing', is how his head is structured. |
19:24 |
asciilifeform |
the other thing is that implementing the mechanically-complicated completer behaviour on an existing gui kit where cannot have the 'final solution' is a massive unrecoverable cost |
19:25 |
asciilifeform |
( and is anuther thing that would take epic effort to bake in 'raw pixels' ) |
19:27 |
asciilifeform |
is sorta rather like how i'd rather sit on a wooden crate than a plush chair with a nail permanently affixed to the arse pad |
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19:27 |
asciilifeform |
'but you can get used to it, learn to sit down so nail goes in arsehole cleanly' 'nothx' |
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19:27 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: if modifier-click variant sufficed, would the heavy-weight capable completer still similarly remain an obstacle? |
19:28 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: well as i just said, it'd be a pile of e.g. qt coad that doesn't in any way help when rewriting to 'raw pixels' |
19:28 |
asciilifeform |
and at any rate it dun suffice. asciilifeform not interested in nail chair. |
19:29 |
cgra |
ah you mean the temporary solution needs a full rewrite anyway, when a complete pill is found |
19:30 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: aha. any gui kit you can make a half-solution on (and asciilifeform is satisfied that he tried all the non-java/mswin/mac ones) perma-binds you to ~that~ kit |
19:30 |
cgra |
right |
19:31 |
asciilifeform |
the 1 i got furthest with, was qt, with a modified 'qtextedit'. but is dog-slow, flickers, misreads clicks, mishighlights, buggy as all hell |
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19:34 |
asciilifeform |
the depth of the hell involved in writing a half-usable text editor at all in 'raw pixels' is unfathomable unless you've been to it. even support for clipboard (w/out which such a thing is worse than useless) is nontrivial |
19:34 |
asciilifeform |
not even to mention scrolling etc |
19:36 |
asciilifeform |
and the 'you can edit XOR click links' idiocy seems firmly 'glued in with broken glass' into existing ones |
19:38 |
asciilifeform |
(speakin of qt in particular -- is a very special hell, where various default behaviours cannot be fully overridden and results in flicker and corruption. e.g. 'qtextedit' allows links because internally represented as html, and cut/paste gives you html soup, and then you need to strip it and rerender, whole thing flickers) |
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~ 15 minutes ~ |
19:53 |
asciilifeform |
'is that a real program, or is that something somebody wrote?'(tm)(r) |
19:55 |
asciilifeform |
phunphakt: asciilifeform's entire www, and thesis thereof, came outta frustration with specifically this quest. |
19:58 |
asciilifeform |
'you can buy 'supercomputer' but you can't have a text editor with basic sane behaviour w/out redoing 1e5 man-years of crud' |
20:00 |
asciilifeform |
even such a basic thing as a scalable font renderer afaik has only been written ~once~ (not counting ms or other closed shitware) |
20:01 |
asciilifeform |
( and it's a GB's pile o'shit with infinite fountain of 0days at that) |