| 01:12 |
signpost |
whaack: segwit's pretty buried in the chain atm. have you considered pissing on "taproot" instead? |
| |
↖ |
| 01:12 |
signpost |
iirc it's the same kind of "looks like anyone can spend to classical btc" |
| |
~ 21 minutes ~ |
| 01:34 |
vex |
that salmonella thing looks delicious, 10% of 0. I fucking love it |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
| 01:59 |
vex |
respect to whaack, paddling into a bomb with waverunner money |
| 02:00 |
vex |
Can't see tx from here, but believe |
| |
~ 1 hours 53 minutes ~ |
| 03:53 |
vex |
if shinohai will extract his nose from da pink.. b word need attention |
| |
↖ |
| 04:04 |
vex |
nevermind, keep sucking |
| 04:07 |
vex |
even mp prefered cardi b |
| 04:13 |
vex |
we were listening to grimes when musk was spending paypal |
| 04:21 |
vex |
next block is the ren bridge |
| 04:24 |
vex |
perhaps butererin has hid dick in my ear. |
| 04:37 |
vex |
if whaack wants to get on a big wave.. I've a supercharged kawasaki. |
| 04:38 |
vex |
kawasaki even |
| 04:51 |
vex |
300horsepower |
| 04:52 |
vex |
precision attitude wtw |
| |
~ 3 hours 4 minutes ~ |
| 07:56 |
verisimilitude |
I suppose the focus on connectionless protocols is in-part due to their typically being designed in a way which generally guarantees progress where possible, by not throwing away hard-won data on failure or interference and whatnot. |
| 07:58 |
verisimilitude |
I've had HTTP connections throw away nearly-finished downloads, without resumption, and that just doesn't compare to something like Bittorrent, which jealously guards data when it actually gets it. |
| |
~ 1 hours 55 minutes ~ |
| 09:54 |
punkman |
lulzy item, guy told me their CEO is making everyone use it https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/access-management/what-is-browser-isolation/ |
| 09:57 |
punkman |
(basically run remote browser in "cloud", stream video to local browser) |
| |
~ 4 hours 31 minutes ~ |
| 14:28 |
billymg |
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-07#1035830 |
| 14:28 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-05-07 15:25:48 billymg: asciilifeform: it's a browser in your browser, dawg |
| |
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~ |
| 15:38 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: hey, timesharing returned, wainot also dumb terminals.. |
| 15:42 |
asciilifeform |
already 10+y ago there appeared the idiocy of 'www-based word processor' where ~every keystroke~ has to travel around the earth + through a shitware cluster at google etc. |
| 15:42 |
asciilifeform |
same people who use ~that~ -- will, i expect, use ~this~. |
| |
~ 23 minutes ~ |
| 16:05 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.110s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.089s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.105s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.023s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=692033 (Operator: whaack) |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.159s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.294s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.266s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.256s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:05 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.282s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=412062 (Operator: jurov) |
| 16:06 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.598s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:06 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.470s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 |
| 16:06 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.386s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 16:07 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
| |
~ 1 hours 30 minutes ~ |
| 17:38 |
raw_avocado |
Hello |
| 17:38 |
asciilifeform |
hello, raw_avocado . who might you be ? |
| 17:38 |
raw_avocado |
Just some random d00d that lurked around for a long time and now, after MP died decided to talk a look at things |
| 17:38 |
raw_avocado |
And read a lot of old articles |
| 17:39 |
asciilifeform |
raw_avocado: sadly fleanode breakage has destroyed the subjline for #a there. i presume you're aware of the log, though, based on above. |
| 17:39 |
raw_avocado |
Yes, i read a bit of them yesturday, and from what i got the log gets chats from 2 places(because of the freenode fiasco?) |
| 17:40 |
asciilifeform |
raw_avocado: most of the conv. now is on dulapnet. both it and the legacy fleanode #a are logged synchronously. |
| 17:40 |
asciilifeform |
correct. |
| 17:40 |
raw_avocado |
I am also syncing TRB as we speak, so will start asking dumb questions soon |
| 17:40 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform and snsabot are still here largely to receive visitors (such as raw_avocado) . the regular folx are all either on dulapnet or both similarly. |
| 17:41 |
asciilifeform |
raw_avocado: don't hesitate to ask, this is the right place. |
| 17:41 |
raw_avocado |
So what is this dulap net and how do i move there, then? |
| 17:41 |
asciilifeform |
( more people will answer in realtime if you do the asking on dulapnet, but eventually erryone reads ) |
| 17:41 |
asciilifeform |
raw_avocado: see thread plz |
| 17:41 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2021-06-15 22:06:55 asciilifeform: 205.134.172.3:6667 |
| 17:48 |
billymg |
has anyone here used one of the "layer 2" setups? either lightning or liquid? |
| 17:48 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: wassat? |
| 17:49 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: various schemes of "lock bitcoin" to exchange 1:1 for another token that can be moved around more quickly |
| 17:50 |
billymg |
but supposedly in a decentralized manner (as opposed to send to gox, send around to other gox friends) |
| 17:50 |
asciilifeform |
aa 'proof of burn'(tm) in earlier shitcoin parlance |
| 17:51 |
asciilifeform |
but -- presumably -- with 'unburn' ? |
| 17:51 |
billymg |
only temporary 'burn', can be converted back to btc proper |
| 17:51 |
billymg |
yep |
| 17:51 |
asciilifeform |
aa, these, lol |
| 17:51 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-11-13 asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element |
| 17:51 |
billymg |
here is pr explainer: https://blog.liquid.net/six-differences-between-liquid-and-lightning/ |
| 17:52 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: it's what all of the prb crowd is promoting now for the "buying coffees with your phone" use case |
| 17:53 |
thimbronion |
billymg: I have played with liquid |
| 17:54 |
billymg |
thimbronion: how was it? |
| 17:54 |
asciilifeform |
'Liquid’s trust model is based on a federation consisting of 15 hardware security modules (HSMs) attached to host servers (known as functionaries).' |
| 17:54 |
asciilifeform |
lol, it's a gox after all ? |
| 17:54 |
asciilifeform |
'Like exchanges, Federation members are also known legal entities that face repercussions should they attempt malicious activity.' << didjaknow! |
| 17:56 |
billymg |
and lightening seems to be fully p2p, but relies on multisig addresses |
| 17:56 |
raw_avocado |
I am not able to connect to it, i am probably doing something wrong |
| 17:57 |
asciilifeform |
raw_avocado: what error do you get ? |
| 17:57 |
asciilifeform |
(and with what connecting?) |
| 17:57 |
raw_avocado |
I am using Limechat, as a client |
| 17:57 |
thimbronion |
billymg: worx. I do find it annoying that while anyone can peg in, only a certain nomenklatura can peg out. That said I would prefer using it to a gox for payments involving smaller amounts of coin. |
| 17:59 |
billymg |
raw_avocado: i happen to be using limechat as well, are you trying to connect directly to dulapnet or via ZNC? |
| 17:59 |
raw_avocado |
Directly. |
| 18:00 |
billymg |
raw_avocado: should be easy then, just make sure you include the fg baud rate as the password in the "Server Password" field |
| 18:01 |
raw_avocado |
fg baud rate? |
| 18:01 |
billymg |
fuckgoats, asciilifeform's TRNG product |
| 18:02 |
billymg |
search around his www and should find a link to the product description page including specs (unless asciilifeform wants to link directly to it) |
| 18:02 |
asciilifeform |
http://nosuchlabs.com |
| 18:02 |
raw_avocado |
Yes, i cam across the product before |
| 18:03 |
billymg |
thimbronion: to me these are (potentially) interesting for the "gas and groceries" use case |
| 18:03 |
raw_avocado |
But its still not clear to me how this would help with connecting to the server |
| 18:03 |
billymg |
i.e. "live off coin" |
| 18:03 |
thimbronion |
billymg: indeed. |
| 18:03 |
asciilifeform |
raw_avocado: the pw for the server is the serial baud rate of fg. |
| 18:03 |
asciilifeform |
this is largely to keep autospammers off. |
| 18:04 |
thimbronion |
they are shitcoin killers. |
| 18:04 |
billymg |
but it sounds like with liquid at least the federation members must be just as "compliant" as any other bank or gox |
| 18:04 |
billymg |
and so you don't really enjoy any privacy |
| 18:06 |
thimbronion |
[not endorsing liquid] The argument goes that the members of the federation are distributed geographically and not all subject to the same political entities. In addition, Liquid has implemented "confidential transactions." |
| 18:07 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: lol,aha, sorta like spain, latvia, etc. are Officially 'countries' rather than reich satrapies, no matter that extradite to washington at drop of a hat, etc. similarly |
| 18:08 |
thimbronion |
billymg: it's not clear, accepting that the transactions actually are confidential, that a federation member would be able to blacklist you. |
| 18:09 |
billymg |
thimbronion: like asciilifeform said, pretty much every country in on it https://www.fatf-gafi.org/countries/ |
| 18:09 |
billymg |
with exception of iran and best korea |
| 18:09 |
billymg |
maybe one or two others |
| 18:09 |
thimbronion |
note that you can't even buy liquid on US based exchange |
| 18:10 |
thimbronion |
none of the shitcoin purveyors will sell it because it kills their whole model. |
| 18:14 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: what happens if, say, 11 of the 15 magick boxes were to walk away ? |
| 18:16 |
* |
asciilifeform finds it interesting how these 'microscope hammers' keep coming back. even tho 'bitcoin on 15 magick boxes' already existed and made 9000 times, e.g. swift, paypal, etc |
| 18:16 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: No idea. Clearly federations are less secure than Bitcoin, which is why you would only ever hold a small amount of the stuff. |
| 18:17 |
billymg |
yeah, that part doesn't bother me, as it would only ever be used for small amounts (if you're not an idiot) |
| 18:17 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: personally if i had to use a gox, would rather use an ordinary one, vs. an elaborately obscurantist pretend-decentralized wtf. but maybe that's just me |
| 18:19 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: my interest in this is whether or not it can be done without all the paperwork that ordinary goxes entail |
| 18:19 |
billymg |
strictly for small day-to-day transactions |
| 18:19 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: are you completely opposed to the idea of varying degrees of decentralization - i.e. in your mind this is a binary thing? |
| 18:19 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: i recall there used to be some that dealt only in shitcoins (no fiatola) and 0 paperworks |
| 18:20 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: but even so, your IP is connecting to there servers to "log in", etc. |
| 18:20 |
billymg |
their* |
| 18:20 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: it isn't that decentralization doesn't 'come in degrees' -- e.g. bitcoin has variously centralized hash pwr. but that i aint convinced that e.g. the linked item represents any degree of centralization. i've no proof that the magick boxes are factually controlled by independent entities. |
| |
↖ |
| 18:20 |
thimbronion |
billymg: you can run your own node. |
| 18:20 |
asciilifeform |
welcome to dulapbot , raw_avocado . |
| 18:20 |
asciilifeform |
dulapnet gr |
| 18:21 |
billymg |
thimbronion: was referring to e.g. binance |
| 18:21 |
raw_avocado |
Made it, of course i had a type :P |
| 18:21 |
billymg |
(exchange where no paperwork if coin only) |
| 18:21 |
raw_avocado |
@asciilifeform |
| 18:21 |
billymg |
although not sure if they still do this, only heard it was like that |
| 18:21 |
raw_avocado |
How do i reply specifically to someone |
| 18:21 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: yes it's basically comes down to how much you wanna put in to determine how decentralized it is vs. what you get from it. |
| 18:22 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: also i find mention of 'hardware security modules' in the context of a nominally p2p net to be a serious leper's bell |
| 18:24 |
* |
asciilifeform ranks 'ordinary gox' as a less-loathesome thing than 'gox with pretenses'. but already described. |
| 18:24 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-21#1047487 << err, any degree of ~decentralization~ lol |
| 18:24 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-21 14:20:44 asciilifeform: thimbronion: it isn't that decentralization doesn't 'come in degrees' -- e.g. bitcoin has variously centralized hash pwr. but that i aint convinced that e.g. the linked item represents any degree of centralization. i've no proof that the magick boxes are factually controlled by independent entities. |
| 18:25 |
* |
asciilifeform too many terminals, brb |
| 18:25 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: I'll leave it at - there is some possibility that this thing is more decentralized than a gox and offers other benefits so why not try it out and risk a small amount of coin. |
| 18:26 |
thimbronion |
This assumes you have what to do with small amounts of coin, which I do occasionally. |
| 18:26 |
billymg |
raw_avocado: just use their name, anywhere in the message. like this, raw_avocado |
| 18:26 |
raw_avocado |
billymg: gotcha |
| 18:33 |
billymg |
thimbronion: did you look into lightning as well and choose to try liquid first? |
| 18:34 |
thimbronion |
billymg: I never really liked lightning - seems complicated. |
| 18:35 |
billymg |
thimbronion: the fact that it works without any "federation members" seems interesting |
| 18:35 |
billymg |
and as long as it's only for petty cash amounts the complicated aspect shouldn't matter |
| 18:35 |
raw_avocado |
thimbronion: i mean it kinda is, but there are a few solutions(mobile wallets if youre into that) that dont rely on someone else verifying stuff |
| 18:36 |
thimbronion |
billymg: this is true. I like it in so far as it counters the shitcoin narrative. |
| 18:39 |
thimbronion |
otoh, if one believes that segwit will blow up someday, it will take lightning with it. |
| 18:39 |
* |
asciilifeform points out , ftr, that the other obv. problem with 'magick boxes' is that they are an implicit promise that the seekrits therein do not in fact exist ~outside~ of these boxes. a promise which no user will ever be able to verify. |
| 18:39 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-10-29 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/Djt8g << meanwhile, at the circus, 'This is not a “normal launch” like any other altcoin, because ZCash required a so called “trusted setup”. During this setup, some secret (public) parameters were generated based on a “master private key”. These network parameters are needed to create the so called “zero-knowledge proofs”, which is the anonymizing mixer on the ZCash network. The “master private k |
| 18:40 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: totally agree |
| 18:40 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: i'd expect erryone tuned in, grasps this. but for noobs, will point out explicitly. |
| 18:41 |
billymg |
thimbronion: yeah, i also like it as a potential route to achieving the kind of transaction scale that makes "compliance" difficult if not impossible to enforce (but perhaps this is naive, enforcement is always selective in any case, and usg can let the orcs buy bananas with it while coming down hard on the holders wanting to escape their cubicle life) |
| 18:45 |
thimbronion |
Actually before the events of 2017, I was hoping to be able to use eulora as a gox. |
| 18:46 |
thimbronion |
And likewise deedbot. |
| 18:46 |
billymg |
deedbot was a fantastic gox, i still miss it |
| 18:49 |
asciilifeform |
superficially, a btc-and-shitcoins-only gox seems easy to bake. operate via pgpgrams. |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
potentially could even offer e.g. imaginary usd -- with the understanding that it cannot be deposited or withdrawn, but only to purchase xyzcoins |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
such a gox would require only a net connection. |
| 18:55 |
* |
asciilifeform would use such a gox, modestly, supposing it were operated by someone in his l2. could then bet on exch rate motions with willing people. |
| 18:57 |
asciilifeform |
it was rather frustrating, knowing how e.g. the musk idiocy would go, and even rough time parameter, but unable to make any use of it. |
| 18:58 |
* |
asciilifeform also suspects that the lack of a zero-usg (i.e. fiatola-movement-free) gox helps to impede proper price discovery and in fact makes the riotous volatility possible to begin with |
| 18:59 |
asciilifeform |
ideally there's be 9000+ such goxes. |
| 18:59 |
asciilifeform |
with 100% public addrs, so can verify reserves at a given moment. |
| 19:00 |
* |
asciilifeform not goxologist, but thinking along lines suggested by signpost earlier. 'what if..' |
| 19:00 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-20 12:23:18 signpost: e.g. filecoin existing should not prevent someone from creating btc-tarsnap |
| 19:02 |
thimbronion |
I thought binance and bitmex were fiat-free but could be wrong. Obviously they have no transparency whatsoever. |
| 19:03 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: iirc both now demand to know yer postage addr. and for you not to connect from e.g. usa |
| 19:03 |
* |
asciilifeform could be mistaken, not looked in years |
| 19:03 |
asciilifeform |
and of course none of these ever operated via pgp |
| 19:06 |
whaack |
raw_avocado: It's always a bummer when you cut open a bad avocado. Regarding syncing up a trb, what specs does the computer you're using have? Also, have you seen http://ztkfg.com/2021/01/restart-trb/ ? Writing this kinda script from the start may save you a month or 2 |
| 19:08 |
asciilifeform |
whaack: asciilifeform last yr wrote a little proggy, based on wg, which requests $block from, randomly, 1 of $list of noades, and spoonfeeds the noad at localhost. possibly oughta clean this up & post. previously resisted because 'grr, really oughta fix the original, not this kludge' |
| 19:09 |
asciilifeform |
currently i'm thinking that anything that ~can~ be 'brought out' of trb, probably oughta be. |
| 19:10 |
asciilifeform |
the thing is 'architected' like a pile of liquishit, really aint fixable in any meaningful sense outside of this one, imho |
| 19:11 |
* |
asciilifeform bbl shortly |
| 19:11 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i have not yet made the effort to extract the btc protocol portion of watchglass yet (i.e. separate the irc bot component), but it sounds like this other use case of yours could also benefit from that? |
| 19:12 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: in 'wedger.py' already extracted. |
| 19:12 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-02-26 16:13:05 asciilifeform: bvt: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wedge/wedger.py ; and use with http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wedge/snap_49999.txt or hash file of same format of your choice. |
| 19:12 |
billymg |
my crawler uses watchglass via an 'import watchglass' statement at the top of the file, but i'm only using a couple methods out of it |
| 19:12 |
* |
asciilifeform genuinely bbl |
| 19:13 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: aha, yes, basically this. ty |
| 19:14 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: why not simply 'import wedger' at top of watchglass then? |
| 19:14 |
whaack |
http://ztkfg.com/2021/07/warning-bitcoins-stored-in-segwit-addresses-are-not-safe/ <- manual feedbot |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 47 minutes ~ |
| 20:02 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-21#1047548 <<< good read whaack |
| 20:02 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-21 15:14:49 whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2021/07/warning-bitcoins-stored-in-segwit-addresses-are-not-safe/ <- manual feedbot |
| 20:03 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-20#1047375 <<< It's Summertime here, I rarely come up for air in non-heathen spaces. |
| 20:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-20 23:53:25 vex: if shinohai will extract his nose from da pink.. b word need attention |
| 20:04 |
shinohai |
Who else is gonna piss of the fucktards at the beach still wearing masks while they swim. |
| 20:09 |
whaack |
shinohai: ty sir |
| 20:12 |
shinohai |
I miss feedbot, seems whaack been having summertime fun of own according to blog. |
| 20:24 |
raw_avocado |
whaack: haha. Im running it on a pretty low ass machine. I did not notice it gets stuck, when i checked the debug every now and then. Will pay more attention and run the script if so. |
| |
↖ |
| 20:26 |
raw_avocado |
Dumb question: If i have a synced power ranger node, can't i just copy the blockchain from it. After all its the same blockchain? Or is TRB using a difrent data structure? |
| 20:39 |
shinohai |
raw_avocado: nyet, if you are running latest "Bitcoin Core" they use sqlite now iirc, and trb using bdb. |
| 20:46 |
raw_avocado |
shinohai: latest since wen? and hello i finally made it here :P |
| 20:49 |
shinohai |
Nice raw_avocado if it helps channel is logged and searchable: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log |
| 20:49 |
shinohai |
$vwap |
| 20:49 |
busybot |
The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 31770.38 USD |
| 20:53 |
raw_avocado |
shinohai: yes, i have been reading a bit of the logs last night before joining. |
| 20:57 |
shinohai |
neato. |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 21:15 |
bingoboingo |
Has anyone else ever gone to an old school "psychoanalyst" an have tips for unfucking your head afterwards. |
| 21:16 |
shinohai |
wb bingoboingo! |
| 21:16 |
bingoboingo |
Recent 9 day trip to see the sea wolves get murdered by Orcas was nice when I was there, but I think therapy might have really fucked something in the meat of my brain |
| 21:16 |
shinohai |
Therapy has traditionally seemed to induce unnecessary feels in me and served no useful purpose. |
| 21:17 |
raw_avocado |
Therapy is a western invention. |
| 21:18 |
bingoboingo |
I went thinking, "Let's do self improvement and kill some weak spots" |
| 21:19 |
shinohai |
I'd rather go and beg Diana Coman to be my master than go to therapy so that should say something. |
| 21:19 |
bingoboingo |
Then after a month and a half of it becoming a place to vent, bitch ass therapist started asking really insidious but innocent looking questions |
| 21:20 |
bingoboingo |
Not much from before the age of 20 or so had ever been in my active attention for years. |
| 21:20 |
shinohai |
I'm curious bingoboingo what nationality is said therapist ? Native to Uruguay? |
| 21:21 |
bingoboingo |
Bringing that shit to the front... broke my brain. Now I have concrete events demonstrating my worst habits were trained into my by the parents |
| 21:21 |
bingoboingo |
shinohai: Native to here |
| 21:23 |
shinohai |
I feel that way re: bad habits from parents. But I tend to dismiss them as serving no useful purpose either because must live for today and not for past perceptions of life. |
| 21:24 |
shinohai |
I doubt anything from there would be useful to me *today*. |
| 21:24 |
bingoboingo |
It opened a serious resentment trap |
| 21:25 |
shinohai |
Look at where you are now tho, I mean no one got you there but bingoboingo himself. |
| 21:27 |
shinohai |
If anything look at past failings as learning what *not* to do. |
| 21:28 |
bingoboingo |
Funny thing, 35's a rather late time in life to discover I'd been trying to fight against a brain dragging around PTSD and ADHD I hadn't known I had |
| 21:28 |
bingoboingo |
But MP was right when he identified my problem as being a "ruminant thinker" |
| 21:32 |
shinohai |
Well bingoboingo taught me to control ADHD mannerisms by writing discipline for Qntra. I'm grateful for the folks that encouraged me to even start that venture. |
| 21:34 |
bingoboingo |
I never expected I could be this damned resentful towards the parents for not dosing me up with ritalin (Instead visible hyperactivity was trained out of me with... that ancient technology of beatings, hence the PTSD) |
| 21:35 |
bingoboingo |
shinohai: Where I am right now isn't the greatest place even if Uruguay is the greatest country. I've spent just about the entire last year living on tilt |
| |
↖ |
| 21:38 |
asciilifeform |
wb shinohai and bingoboingo |
| 21:39 |
shinohai |
bingoboingo: despite the rocks over past couple of years I still consider you a friend. My gpg key still good ya know. |
| 21:39 |
asciilifeform |
raw_avocado: they changed the db format. ( and loox like shinohai already explained ) |
| 21:39 |
shinohai |
ty asciilifeform just got back to mainland Georgia this a.m. |
| 21:40 |
asciilifeform |
bingoboingo: for the most part, shrinks -- harmless, with certain caveats. |
| 21:40 |
* |
bingoboingo has been giving serious though to resettling in a hamlet where the one restaurant open in the off season buys there fish from a guy walking home with his catch in a bucket |
| 21:41 |
shinohai |
I'm getting "Old man and the sea" vibes from bingoboingo .... |
| 21:42 |
bingoboingo |
The psychiatrist I had to pick up, strictly excellent compared to offerings in old county. |
| 21:42 |
asciilifeform |
bingoboingo: asciilifeform aint a shrink. but getting distinct feeling that bingoboingo has the old soldier's 'my war gone by, i miss it so..' condition |
| 21:42 |
shinohai |
I thought you were going treasure adventuring. Had I the coin would do same. |
| 21:42 |
bingoboingo |
My problem has been the more mundane talkers |
| 21:43 |
bingoboingo |
shinohai trip was exploratory. Saw some other folks panning sand in places that... seemed less than promising |
| 21:44 |
bingoboingo |
The big treasures were the night sky there and learning that Orcas share the hunting ethics of cats |
| 21:44 |
bingoboingo |
Orcas aren't the sort to just kill when they are hungry |
| 21:44 |
shinohai |
I got to take tasco along on recent trip. Night sky absent of light pollution was a treat. |
| 21:46 |
bingoboingo |
asciilifeform: Quite a bit of that mixed with regret "If only I could have been better in battle when there were battles to fight" |
| 21:49 |
shinohai |
Same bingoboingo but as sure as sun sets there will be more battles. |
| 21:53 |
mats |
war never ends |
| 21:54 |
bingoboingo |
Sure, but with the possibility of Republic gone... I ain't yet found anything my capacity for fanaticism can connect with |
| 21:55 |
bingoboingo |
There might be battles left, but I don't know if any of the ones left can be my battles |
| 21:55 |
mats |
i'm satisfied with fighting socialists |
| |
↖ |
| 21:56 |
bingoboingo |
I've yet to find people outside the late Republic fighting socialists that aren't just different socialists |
| |
↖ |
| 21:57 |
mats |
stealing state ability to manage their own monetary policy is a good start |
| 21:58 |
bingoboingo |
USG already lost it |
| 21:58 |
mats |
and long term might pave the way for de-dollarisation (but begins with dollarisation, ironically) |
| 21:59 |
bingoboingo |
So a few years ago Russia and China set up a settlement network in their national currencies, dollars set up to break on the fiat side with Bitcoin serving as a further rock to break the dollar's back |
| 22:00 |
shinohai |
^ sauce bingoboingo ? |
| 22:01 |
mats |
far left advance in mining-dependent nations / lithium triangle are worth a look. the future of chilean politics (leftists likely to do well), peru (far left farmer won) |
| 22:01 |
mats |
SPFS is the ru swift thing |
| 22:02 |
mats |
another thing to watch for is stabilization of the digital yuan and assorted payments rails |
| 22:02 |
mats |
once its properly settled, expect chinese affiliates to begin targeting western payments systems |
| 22:02 |
mats |
beijing is already beginning to take the gloves off, 'hafnium' looks like an unprecedented escalation |
| 22:03 |
bingoboingo |
lettuce not forget the rest of the linthium sands that aren't in Chile are... Bolivian |
| 22:03 |
thimbronion |
bingoboingo: were ritalin or beatings really the only options? |
| 22:04 |
bingoboingo |
thimbronion: Maybe? Had a conversation of this sort with a stranger in Indiana over cam last night. He resented his family for the drugs, I resented mine for the beatings. |
| 22:05 |
bingoboingo |
Except he didn't really resent the family according to his words |
| 22:05 |
mats |
i would not want to be in a place that heavily relies on digital, rather than cash, retail payments, when the network attacks begin in earnest |
| 22:05 |
mats |
only about a quarter of usa is either un- or underbanked |
| 22:06 |
bingoboingo |
shinohai https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2015-05/15/content_20725897.htm |
| 22:07 |
mats |
ru is nearly done replacing their usd reserves with rmb, but not sure that even remotely moves the needle on anything that matters |
| 22:07 |
shinohai |
tyvm |
| 22:08 |
thimbronion |
bingoboingo: I suspect not - though I'm sure they'll say they "did the best they knew how" and whatever other excuses. |
| 22:09 |
bingoboingo |
thimbronion Of course mom does |
| 22:10 |
mats |
beijing clearly feels emboldened, strong enough to take on the 14 eyes along with jp,kr,tw,etc |
| 22:10 |
shinohai |
I had both beatings and drugs (because drugs din work) but chalk it all up to religious cult damaging families' brain. Not a damn thing I could do about - I got out and that was enuf. |
| 22:11 |
bingoboingo |
mats: Well the 5 year plan China put out says "We're unplugging from the USSA" |
| 22:11 |
mats |
i don't know how to feel about it |
| 22:12 |
mats |
its not ideal for cn to emerge as a sole superpower if usa crumbles too quickly |
| 22:14 |
mats |
but finding the balance isn't my responsibility |
| 22:17 |
bingoboingo |
I don't know if US is actually going to crumble. Given the population's behavior it seems more likely that the US and its western European vassals spend the next couple decades just being shitty hermits |
| 22:19 |
thimbronion |
bingoboingo: resentment is a bitch. I've heard that mourning the happy childhood you could have had and accepting its loss helps - but hasn't worked all that well for me thus far. |
| 22:20 |
bingoboingo |
For me the worst part if, I don't give a fuck about the childhood. IF it could have just stayed closed and out of my attention another 35 years that would have been great |
| 22:20 |
bingoboingo |
But for having been thrust back into my attention, I have lost substantial amounts of time that could have went to anything else |
| 22:21 |
thimbronion |
bingoboingo: if anything it might help you at least avoid getting involved with anyone like your folks in the future. |
| 22:22 |
shinohai |
Weeping for lost time won't bring it back though. |
| 22:22 |
shinohai |
I know it's a him an thing to do it, but fact remains. |
| 22:22 |
shinohai |
s/him/human |
| 22:25 |
bingoboingo |
So I I know I have to be insane, because I've heard all these things before yet... I've not been able to keep my attention in the present |
| 22:32 |
thimbronion |
bingoboingo: ever tried ayahuasca? |
| 22:33 |
bingoboingo |
Not yet |
| 22:33 |
thimbronion |
I'm considering trying it one of these times I'm down in CR. Some say it helps with this kind of stuff. |
| |
↖ |
| 22:34 |
bingoboingo |
Is that a thing in CR? |
| 22:35 |
thimbronion |
Yeah. Evidently there are several guides there. |
| 22:36 |
bingoboingo |
May be worth a shot |
| 22:37 |
bingoboingo |
Ketamin helped put and end to the flashbacks and has helped wake me up from acute attacks of despondence |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 22:54 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-21#1047586 << what was start of tilt? |
| 22:54 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-21 17:35:47 bingoboingo: shinohai: Where I am right now isn't the greatest place even if Uruguay is the greatest country. I've spent just about the entire last year living on tilt |
| 22:56 |
bingoboingo |
punkman: Well, I'd been trying to dedicate my life to this Republic thing for a number of years... |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
| 23:12 |
punkman |
ah the end of tmsr then. well it's time to move on friend. |
| 23:12 |
punkman |
ghost of mp doesn't care anymore. |
| 23:13 |
raw_avocado |
bingoboingo: have you ever tried meditation? |
| 23:16 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-21#1047647 << not that I've tried, but would recommend against unless quite experienced. |
| 23:16 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-21 18:33:37 thimbronion: I'm considering trying it one of these times I'm down in CR. Some say it helps with this kind of stuff. |
| 23:16 |
thimbronion |
punkman: experienced with what? |
| 23:17 |
punkman |
similar substances |
| 23:17 |
thimbronion |
punkman: such as psilocybin? |
| 23:18 |
punkman |
sure |
| 23:23 |
punkman |
I'd also never recommend psychedelic trip to person in bad frame of mind |
| 23:25 |
* |
punkman rolls cigarette |
| 23:25 |
punkman |
tobacco though, tobacco's marvelous |
| 23:28 |
mats |
lol |
| 23:31 |
magnus |
bingoboingo: for what it's worth, the only thing that ever helped me was the passage of time (with an upbringing very similar to what u described)... |
| 23:31 |
bingoboingo |
Time kinda did its thing. Problems is therapy undid what time did |
| 23:31 |
magnus |
maybe 3+ of years of keeping myself very busy with other projects... went from thinking about it daily, to maybe once per month... |
| 23:32 |
magnus |
ah, right |
| 23:33 |
punkman |
having other things to do than think all day, is best cure |
| 23:33 |
magnus |
yeah, idle hands and all that... |
| 23:34 |
magnus |
there is something to be said for the impermanence of memory... give it enough time, you'll cease caring much at all... |
| 23:36 |
magnus |
well, and perhaps accepting that you cannot fix other people... burying an axe in my parent's head would have changed nothing, essentially... |
| 23:37 |
mats |
the mind can do strange things to memories, dulling the negatives and enhancing the positives |
| 23:37 |
magnus |
best to get out, get away and do your own thing... as shinohai suggested upstack.. |
| 23:37 |
magnus |
true, quite untrustworthy at times... |
| 23:38 |
magnus |
I had quite a good memory when I was younger; turned out to be a curse, when carrying around so much baggage... |
| 23:38 |
magnus |
not senile yet but things are nicely dulled down... I ain't complaining... |
| 23:39 |
magnus |
(presently in 50s) |
| 23:42 |
mats |
more sensible to go to an md and get a panel of tests, blood urine or whatever, than abusing mystery substances because gwern said it was cool |
| 23:42 |
mats |
maybe someone has a vit. d deficiency or something mundane |
| 23:44 |
asciilifeform |
mats: deficiency of d is normally a 'desk flyer' affliction, i'd be surprised if bingoboingo were to suffer from it. but whoknows. |
| 23:45 |
asciilifeform |
the point re 'mystery substances' is factual, but gotta also include the ones peddled Officially, there |
| 23:46 |
punkman |
I've been sunbathing in underwear for past year (40-80min / day), helps a lot with general wellbeing |
| 23:46 |
mats |
lol, and here i am actively avoiding sunlight with long sleeves and pants |
| 23:47 |
mats |
different cultural priorities perhaps, but i hope to look like i'm in my 20s when 60 |
| 23:47 |
verisimilitude |
I don't forget much; I can't even recall the last thing I've forgotten. |
| 23:48 |
mats |
what did you have for breakfast and lunch last fortnight? |
| 23:48 |
verisimilitude |
Anyway, even if I were to forget, I've meticulously kept daily records for nearly a decade, which plays into enhancing my memory. |
| 23:48 |
punkman |
mats, what, an hour in the sun gonna age you prematurely? |
| 23:48 |
verisimilitude |
I'd need to check. |
| 23:48 |
mats |
actually yes, punkman |
| 23:49 |
magnus |
I have no experience of ayahuasca or modern meds; used lsd a few times, was pleasant and controllable... felt like a mild mental 'refresh' rather than a complete disassembly/reassembly of one's mind |
| 23:49 |
mats |
i'm wary about it even with fully applied sunscreen |
| 23:49 |
verisimilitude |
What's wrong with socialism? |
| 23:49 |
mats |
depends what you think socialism is |
| 23:50 |
punkman |
I'm sort of believing the "sunscreen is what gives you skin cancer" conspiracy theory |
| 23:50 |
mats |
well, i think mineral sunscreen is superior to chemical screens |
| 23:50 |
mats |
i wear it even when i'm sitting in front of the computer |
| 23:50 |
verisimilitude |
Let's say socialism mixed with nationalism; what would be wrong with that? |
| 23:51 |
mats |
i think nationalism of any kind is stupid |
| 23:51 |
punkman |
mats, oh you gettin the plain zinc sunscreen? |
| 23:51 |
mats |
zinc/ti oxides |
| 23:51 |
punkman |
been meaning to order some |
| 23:51 |
mats |
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27292387 related |
| 23:52 |
punkman |
yeah fuck J & J |
| 23:52 |
punkman |
plus their baby powder thing |
| 23:52 |
mats |
i prefer it because it lasts longer, whereas the chem stuff will actively degrade even if you're not in the sun |
| 23:52 |
mats |
so one application could conceivably go all day if i'm just inside and go out for 15-30 mins |
| 23:53 |
punkman |
wearing sunscreen indoors, is for the lamp/screen UV? |
| 23:54 |
mats |
yeah, i got blackout blinds recently but it was also useful for the light that got through windows and curtains |
| 23:54 |
asciilifeform |
wtf, why wouldja have measurable uv indoors |
| 23:55 |
mats |
blue light, not uv |
| 23:55 |
asciilifeform |
blue light ~in daytime~ is a feature, not bug |
| 23:55 |
asciilifeform |
yer meat expects it |
| 23:56 |
mats |
sometimes i'm on the computer 16h a day |
| 23:57 |
mats |
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/cnn-underscored/blue-light-damaging-skin/index.html comes with adverts, sorry |
| 23:58 |
mats |
i tell myself at least i haven't gone so far as to buy the gamer glasses, gunnars or whatever |
| 23:58 |
mats |
lul |
| 23:58 |
asciilifeform |
seems easier to buy filter for monitor |
| 23:59 |
raw_avocado |
Do you guys still use the WoT and if so what bot do i use to register? |
| 23:59 |
mats |
deedbot is napping |
| 23:59 |
asciilifeform |
raw_avocado: still in use; ping signpost re deedbot |