#asciilifeform | 2021-07-23

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-22#1047878 << Any particular details you're interested in?

00:08

Logged on 2021-07-22 16:35:54 asciilifeform: thimbronion: elaborate ?

~ 18 minutes ~

00:27

brits calling new "covid" surge a "pingdemic" because they all downloaded the queen's "contact tracing" app, and now it won't stop pinging with notifications telling them to quarantine

00:34

the cyberpunk future coming fast at normal folx

00:36

been reading "The Burnout Society" and "The Transparency Society" by Byung-Chul Han. Some interesting lines, some philosophy-wank, but at least short ( <100 pages)

~ 19 minutes ~

00:55

"Trust is only possible in a state between knowing and not-knowing. Trust means establishing a positive relationship with the Other, even in ignorance. It makes actions possible despite one’s lack of knowledge. If I know everything in advance, there is no need for trust. Transparency is a state in which all not-knowing is eliminated. Where

00:55

transparency prevails, no room for trust exists. Instead of affirming that “transparency creates trust,” one should

00:55

instead say, “transparency dismantles trust.” The demand for transparency grows loud precisely when trust no longer prevails.

00:56

In a society based on trust, no intrusive demand for transparency would surface. The society of transparency is a society of mistrust and suspicion; it relies on control because of vanishing confidence. Strident calls for transparency point to the simple fact that the moral foundation of society has grown faulty, that moral values such as honesty

00:56

and uprightness are losing their meaning more and more"

~ 4 hours 1 minutes ~

04:57

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-22#1048063 << interesting that you would label it an obsession. Also bingoboingo's therapist who is uruguayan brought it up, so maybe not so American? Or maybe you meant to include South Americans, too. Have kids btw?

04:57

Logged on 2021-07-22 19:05:49 punkman: this obsession with childhood, also sort of an American thing

~ 27 minutes ~

05:24

verisimilitude

I'm not obsessed with my childhood, at least in mine eyes.

~ 3 hours 16 minutes ~

08:40

there is some cliche that I can't remember precisely, and never heard attributed to anyone other than the fellow who related it to me, that "we become who we are despite, not because of, our upbringing."

08:41

it is a rather "nature vs nurture", genotype-centered perspective.

08:43

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-22#1048001 << iirc, merkle root of all detached signatures, using a tree structure that parallels the one of the transactions, goes in the coinbase input.

08:43

Logged on 2021-07-22 18:46:57 whaack: btw, does anyone know if the 'segregated' witness data gets hashed anywhere in prb blocks? i.e. in the inputs to coinbase txns or something?

08:44

fwiw the whole "witness" nomenclature always pissed me off; if anything, it primed me towards not being a rabid supporter of the idea. why use the synonym, when everyone had been calling them "signatures" for the entire history of bitcoin until then?

08:45

*

adlai answers his own question: one plausible hypothesis, is that "witness" is not a precise synonym, although you have to be a Professional Cryptographer to distinguish it from "signature", and its usage is a reminder to respect arguments from authority.

08:53

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-22#1048102 << ... that's an interesting case; I'd wank that they're better described as semi-proper nouns, since within any specific plexure, they are proper, although different people have different interpretations of these ideals; you could be a stickler and say that the capital-letter proper-noun ideals are the ones described by

08:53

Logged on 2021-07-22 19:25:14 gregory4: for instance, I insist that Facism, Communism, Republicanism, etc. are proper nouns, and find it strange seeing those words in lowercase.

08:53

their inventor, but some of these were never invented... e.g., Fascism - probably older than history.

08:54

I'm more in agreement that ideologies specifically named after an individual are proper nouns, since there is much less flexibility for redefinition; e.g., Marxism, Stalinism, Freudianism; notable exception - Christianity?

08:59

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-22#1048113 << Vonnegut talks quite a bit about his own family, in a few books; e.g. in Timequake (a terrible book, one of his worst), he describes returning from WWII with no heroic stories and no deeds worth telling, and some uncle greets him and says, "You're a man now!"... then Vonnegut remarks to the reader, "I damn near killed my

08:59

Logged on 2021-07-22 19:32:29 gregory4: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-22#1048088 << I hadn't known that about Vonnegut. nice...

08:59

first German."

09:00

Timequake is a terrible book and strongly disrecommended unless you are truly out of reading material, or specifically wish to investigate Vonnegut's literary parody of dissociative identity as personified by Kilgore Trout.

09:02

whereas in other books, Trout merely gets mentioned as doing this or writing that, and is obviously a reflection of various elements from the lives of various science fiction authors, including Vonnegut himself... in Timequake, Vonnegut actually goes to great lengths to disambiguate himself from Trout, and even has the two of them meet in person to emphasize that they are different

09:02

characters.

09:03

*

adlai does not recall where he read that Vonnegut ever received some severe psychiatric diagnosis along the lines of dissociative identity; in Timequake, he merely describes himself as "monopolar depressive".

09:04

while I'm on the topic of crazy people, I suppose I should write something about the drowned man.

09:06

punkman26

https://archive.fo/UfVoC vintage segwit objections

09:06

*

adlai is actually still planning to write this, although it was on quite low priority

09:06

(trilema) 2016-04-10 mircea_popescu: anyway, so i suppose in the "blogs that must be", we have "adlai - views from inside the insane asylum" and "phf - they have philosophy in russia even!"

09:08

maybe I actually should not shoot my mouth off about the drowned man; after all, I never actually interacted with him directly, only with his IRC republic, while that lasted.

09:09

*

adlai had exactly one private exchange with him on IRC, consisting of an MPEx bug report, the response to which was less along the lines of "thank you for the report", and more along the lines of "try to be useful, ok?"

09:12

I do wonder whether there are any details about his death, beyond the one dry news report, and few sopping elegies

↖ ↖

09:13

*

adlai finds it noteworthy that, in his article about suicide, Mircea wrote that the way in which a man plans to die does possibly have significance; and is not a drowning in the open ocean arguably a way of choosing to die?

09:15

now, if one of his friends speaks up and says that he was thrown off his yacht by some long-lost phriend who mysteriously appeared after decades of radio silence, that is a completely different story; yet the impression I got from the elegies was that the dude just went for a long swim in a quiet ocean.

~ 19 minutes ~

09:34

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048174 << been reading about local drownings every other week, not much to say in these. Age of the unfortunate, weather that day, was it heart-attack or the water, body recovered or not

09:34

Logged on 2021-07-23 05:12:30 adlai: I do wonder whether there are any details about his death, beyond the one dry news report, and few sopping elegies

09:39

well, in most death notices that I encounter, they usually close with a sentence along the lines of "The deceased is survived by ..." and a list of closest kin, usually with the intent that long-lost friends who've been radio-silent for decades at least know to whom, if anyone, to address condolences; and possibly mentioning some lawyer handling the estate, in cases where there is an

09:39

estate to handle.

09:41

however, customs pertaining to death are possibly among the kind that vary most wildly between different cultures

09:42

e.g., one friend who was partying in India literally had another partygoer die in his hands, probably due to various party drug complications; and was quite shocked to see the corpse get immediately whisked away for cremation.

09:42

no police, no professional medical services, nothing.

09:46

*

adlai wanders off, to go argue with the reprinted editorialised leftovers of the old fat organist

~ 2 hours 32 minutes ~

12:19

I'm uncertain what question precisely has been elided from here, although this is definitely true, with the only exceptions being flights to destinations where the airline is required by the other end to enforce such restrictions.

12:19

Logged on 2021-07-12 22:35:34 asciilifeform: ^ might know?

12:19

Logged on 2021-07-12 22:37:13 asciilifeform: 'Contrary to the phenomena of stress identified at security lanes in other airports, in Israel, no one is asked to remove liquids, gels and aerosols or shoes. ' << interesting, if troo

12:19

security in Israel is entirely based on the gut of the guards

12:20

i.e., subliminal profiling, often with a sprinkling of racism

12:21

*

adlai has often been surprised to _not_ get targeted by much of this, although it could be that there is a stereotype "exmil hippie anarcho-pacifist" that gets waved through as harmless to anyone who doesn't actually listen to him.

12:21

https://docs.ata.network/mev/solutions/faas-or-meva/ << impressed at the sheer amount of "solutions" to getting fucked by the eth network.

12:24

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-12#1045704 << temporarily reduced the 'bouncer' footprint, then got wrapped up in searching for a new apartment right in the middle of operation whatevertheycalleditthistime; since then, mostly http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-15#1001691

12:24

Logged on 2021-07-12 22:35:55 asciilifeform: (where'd he go, anyway?)

12:24

(alethepedia) 2020-12-15 asciilifeform: could be -- substance abuse; could be -- the sucking soul vacuum which afflicts some folx upon cessation of a substance abuse; i've nfi in this case.

12:26

one barmaid has given me the metaphorical suckerpunch of reminding me that my organ donor card is worth less than the plastic it's printed on if I keep keeping her salary artificially inflated, although such reminders don't help much with the complementary problem.

12:28

punkman: probably about as lively a field as insecticides and antibiotics

12:28

whaack: while on the topic of anyone can spend https://b10c.me/blog/007-spending-p2tr-pre-activation/

12:28

So taproot its just version 1 SegWith(the 1st one being 0) so that explains the anyone can spend

12:29

There were like 6 outputs on the blockchain that were p2tr)pay-to-taproot) outputs so up for grabs before activation

12:29

And the d00d that write the blog post talked with f2pool and mined those outputs

12:29

miners are arguably the participants least strongly incentivised towards defection after they have activated a softfork such as segwit, or even the original p2sh softfork

12:30

Here is the TX in question if you dont want to bother reading the whole thing(even though i would recomend as it explains everything very good)

12:30

non-miners only vote with their capital expense, when they dump tokens they don't want in favor of ones they do; whereas miners have to cast their votes in the allocation of operating expenses in real-time

12:31

The taproot addrs start with "bc1p" as oposed to SegWith ver0 that start with "bc1q". Why? Because in this address format thats how the versioning number is used.

12:31

obviously, miners can use fork derivatives to consolidate their opex votes, although that requires the existence of counterparties for such derivatives, and trusting them

12:32

adlai: miners are arguably the participants least strongly incentivised towards defection after they have activated a softfork such as segwit, or even the original p2sh softfork << so that means incentive alignment worx?

12:32

not exactly; it simply means that the miner incentive is to mine the chain that is most profitable for them, and the conflicts are resolved by the [dis]investors

12:33

adlai: non-miners only vote with their capital expense, when they dump tokens they don't want in favor of ones they do; whereas miners have to cast their votes in the allocation of operating expenses in real-time << are non-miners(fullnodes) also voting by using the coins and thus paying fees?

12:33

your participant categorisation is overly simplified.

12:33

Sounds to me like incentive alignment

12:33

miners, investors, and nodes - none of these categories are mutually exclusive

12:33

i.e., a statement such as "nonminers(fullnodes)" is the result of an unnecessary assumption

12:34

paying a transaction fee is pretty much negligible, as far as voting between forks goes

12:35

e.g., if you are selling 100 forked-btc to buy 100 true-btc, your transaction fee, even if your wallet was severely fragmented, is probably not more than 1% of the total vote size

12:36

if your wallet was so fragmented that your transaction fee for moving 100 btc is over 1 btc, then your usecase is probably the kind of system that is cheaper run if it hops between the cheapest shitcoin-du-jour anyway.

12:36

Yes, you are right, as in a hardfork event, the other fees are not from the same universe.

12:37

i.e., if you are only using the transactions and their confirmations as a synchronisation method for your botnet -- you should probably use ETC instead of ETH, BCH instead of BTC, etc, unless you specifically need your botnet's stream-of-consciousness to have a lifetime of decades rather than weeks.

12:37

But in this scenario we are NOT talking about a hard fork, but a soft one, if i understand correctly.

12:38

from the perspective of an activated softfork, defecting is a hardfork.

12:38

the act of defection widens the space of valid updates.

12:39

raw_avocado, check out http://atruechurch.info/ and don't go to hell like the rest of the world!

12:39

can you expand on the defecting thing pls

12:40

dpb: are there any theologies aligned with yours that consider this world, and our lives in it, as a form of preliminary purgatory?

12:40

rather than making this strange distinction between all the different circles of heaven and hell

12:40

raw_avocado: the simplest example is transaction malleability; are you familiar with this?

12:40

dpb: i remember reading this on your blog ;) http://danielpbarron.com/2018/a-conversation-between-darwin-fish-and-mircea-popescu/

12:40

cool

12:42

dpb: I wrote an article on the topic of divinity and Bitcoin and my view is more human centric. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/bitcoin-how-we-became-gods Curious what you think about it

12:42

raw_avocado: tl;dr - signatures are a number that can be either clockwise or counterclockwise, and both forms are a valid signature, as long as the angle and absolute value are correct

12:42

adlai> dpb: are there any theologies aligned with yours that consider this world, and our lives in it, as a form of preliminary purgatory? << are there other churches in the truth? Not that I am aware of. Purgatory is false doctrine, but yes this world is like the purgatory, except that most people do not make it through to the kingdom of heaven, sadly

12:43

dpb: aha, that is definitely in agreement with my ideology, although mine is not as confidently defined as yours. I don't spend much time on theology.

12:44

raw_avocado: so, in a hypothetical softfork, all node operators agree that after a certain blockheight, they will consider counterclockwise signature values as invalid, even if flipping the value to clockwise would make it valid.

12:44

re the simplest example is transaction malleability; are you familiar with this? i know there are multiple types of maleability and because of the random number you add in the sigs. And because the TX id is the has of that sig also then you can have same TX with diffrent TX ids.

12:44

then they inform the miners, far enough in advance of that blockheight, that any blocks produced by the miners without validating that all signatures are clockwise, are less likely to be valid, because each signature could theoretically be counterclockwise.

12:44

tl;dr - signatures are a number that can be either clockwise or counterclockwise, and both forms are a valid signature, as long as the angle and absolute value are correct - this because of the simetriy of the eliptic curve with oY, no?

12:45

re:simetriy ... correct.

12:45

the main reason that such a softfork has not happened is because coordinating such additional verification, agreeing on a blockheight, notifying all the miners, convincing all the wallet operators, etc - is a big headache

12:46

only if we would have a system that solves this coordination problem in a byzantine fault tolerant way . . . :P

12:46

iirc, it has been proposed as an additional rule to add in pretty much every softfork that has happened, and each time it gets shot down with the justification that each softfork should be as minimal a rule imposition as possible.

12:47

now, specifically the definition of "defection":

12:47

re: this bip 8 or 9 something like that?

12:47

*

adlai does not have a sufficiently coherent recollection of each BIP's exact definition

12:47

How did you make the writting like that, in the last sentance?

12:48

*

adlai wrote "/me does not ..."

12:48

*

raw_avocado does not had breakfast yet

12:48

neat. 10x

12:48

let's say the node operators agreed on a blockheight, notified miners, and then the blockheight passed, the miners all add some text into the coinbase input claiming "WE HATE COUNTERCLOCKWISE SIGNATURES", and incorporate the additional validation rule into their transaction selection algorithms

12:49

i noticed a lot of people in here love to use 3rd person when refering to them, is this some kind of sign of low but severe diasociation with oneself?

12:49

then a few months of valid blocks pass where all the signatures are clockwise, everyone is apparently happy...

12:49

suddenly, some wallet operator starts sending counterclockwise signatures

12:49

But dont we also need all the other nodes to go by that rulle, when accepting payments?

12:50

it is an imposition of an additional rule. nodes that don't care about it, still see valid transactions even without validating that rule.

12:50

>> And it is here, in the mempool, where man becomes God. << Men are gods already. We are created in the likeness of our Creators (Gods) -- the word god simply means a power or authority

12:51

it is an imposition of an additional rule. << all SFs are that right? tightnign of the rulles?

12:51

raw_avocado: the act of defection, in this case, would be for a miner to decide that they will mine the counterclockwise signatures, and broadcast those blocks, in violation of the rule that had recently been enforced.

12:51

such blocks are a loosening of the rules, because they undo a previous tightening, and are thus a hard fork.

12:52

Men are gods already << clearly we have some limitations as compared to The Mighty Above, no?

12:52

God limits us, but otherwise no

12:52

in this case, it is a hardfork that precisely undos a recent softfork; in other cases (e.g. the proposed 2MB blocksize), the proposed broadening was not a precise undoing of a softfork, since the 1MB softfork was a narrowing from no limit defined other than the network limitations.

12:52

nothing we propose to do will be withheld from us (except that our language was confused)

12:54

dpb: serious question, if we're already on this sidebar... what do you make of the fact that certain extremely popular works of science fiction are authored by religious folks?

12:54

'popular' may be the wrong word... highly regarded is closer to what I mean.

12:55

dpb: Can Gods limit other Gods?

12:55

yes

12:56

e.g., Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card (iirc, a practising Mormon) is quite a popular book, and so are the sequels; and although Gene Wolfe's (iirc, he practised some form of Catholicism, although I don't remember exactly which) books are much less popular, although also highly regarded by serious scifi afictionados.

12:56

adlai: i *think* i grok the last 3 things you said.

12:56

https://b10c.me/blog/006-evolution-of-the-bitcoin-signature-length/ "The Bitcoin Core v0.17.0 release in October 2018 included an improvement to the Bitcoin Core wallet to produce only 71-byte signatures. By re-signing a transaction with a different nonce, a new r-value can be grinded until a low value is found."

12:56

adlai: you talking about this?

12:57

dpb: the reason I ask is that some anti-religious folks go as far as to say that the works of such authors should also be disregarded as subtle pro-religion propaganda; an extreme example is C.S.Lewis, and folks who say that his Narnia books are all about priming children to accept the Christian metaphysics.

12:57

punkman: we talking about maleability and how can have 2 valid sigs on each side of Oy, and this started from the convo of softforks and taproot and anyone can spend outputs.

12:57

punkman: no; I gave a completely hypothetical example, which happens to be similar to what you cited.

12:58

raw_avocado wanted an example of what I meant by "defection"

12:58

i c

12:58

And he picked this not so absurd one.

12:59

dpb: have you ever took any phyhadelics?

12:59

*

adlai could have also just written... "defection means stopping to validate the new rule imposed by a given soft fork"

12:59

", after it has already been considered as accepted by the quorum of network participants"

12:59

however, the example makes the abstract babble more concrete.

12:59

So TRB is an example of defection

13:00

TRB allows defection, although it does not defect unless you use it to mine a block. I'm quite certain that merely allowing someone else's defection, and actively broadcasting blocks that defect by triggering a chain split, should be considered two different acts.

13:01

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0350.mediawiki << in the complexity pit: "improved variant of Bech32 called Bech32m"

13:01

looking forward to Bech32vista

13:01

e.g., the only guarantee that various nodes on the network are enforcing a new rule is obtained by probing them with defecting blocks; trb, and various other old clients, merely advertise that they will allow certain defections.

13:02

whereas nodes that update software advertise that they intend to reject defections by updating their node's version string.

13:03

to take the analogy of 'defection' one step further: the version strings are about as meaningful as a flag patch sewn onto a helmet otherwise covered in camo.

13:03

and this probing requires making valid blocks, which is prohibitively expensive

13:05

right; that's why I claim that miners, considered only as miners without regard to investment that they may also retain, are among the least influential in such a situation, because their operating expense is allocated towards recovering the cost of their infrastructure; they can't afford to probe the network, and must resort to diplomatically talking with investors.

13:05

of course, in the actual world, some miners also have sizeable investments; some miners have enough infrastructure to split it so it mines on multiple chains; etc.

13:06

looking forward to Bech32vista << LOL

13:06

I m tweating that

13:06

however, if you only say "miners", then my interpretation is that you are talking about folks who are in the game only to turn an electricity bill into fiat profit

13:07

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048269 << c.s. lewis was not in the truth. God is causing all things. He causes most people to believe and He causes a few people to see the self evident truth of the Bible

13:07

Logged on 2021-07-23 08:57:23 adlai: dpb: the reason I ask is that some anti-religious folks go as far as to say that the works of such authors should also be disregarded as subtle pro-religion propaganda; an extreme example is C.S.Lewis, and folks who say that his Narnia books are all about priming children to accept the Christian metaphysics.

13:09

raw_avocado> dpb: have you ever took any phyhadelics? << yes. psilocybin containing mushrooms, dmt, lsd, dxm, etc..

13:10

adlai: Gotcha, i think. When i think miner i think provider of hashes < N

13:10

dpb: you do not see God as the being that establishes the state of the world, and then leaves one last freedom to the world, to which humans refer to as "free will"?

13:10

no, free will is false doctrine. http://danielpbarron.com/atc/calvinism-and-arminianism/#total-depravity

13:10

yes. psilocybin containing mushrooms, dmt, lsd, dxm, etc.. << did this influence/change your perception of God in any way?

13:10

God is actively causing all electrons to spin

13:11

raw_avocado, probably

13:11

my incredibly dry and mathematical version of this metaphysics is inspired by the Axiom of Choice: the creator has laid out the family of sets of all possibilities, yet the choice of each possibility is a separate action; I guess that statement, in and of itself, is not contradictory with the claim that the creator also chooses.

13:12

He makes us choose and then holds us responsible for the choices He made us pick

13:12

*

adlai intentionally did not capitalize "the creator" there, because the statement is an abstract hypothetical, rather than a statement about any personified diety

13:13

raw_avocado: are you asking whether dpb actually received communications during those experiences, as opposed to merely whether the experiences affected his thought process?

13:14

adlai: I was going there, as that is not abnormal under such circumstances, and i also think the experience is indeed valid

13:14

we are all "receiving communications" at all times, but God causes most people to not see or hear them

13:15

you have to be quite wooden-headed to ~not~ perceive any of the thoughts experienced during a sufficiently strong psychedelic experience as originating from a source other than the self, although whether you choose to identify that source as direct from a diety, rather than e.g. a previously muted part of your own brain, is a separate question

13:15

you don't like what you saw and heard, so you make up a false narative to cope with it

13:15

I think i would agree with most(at least from what i read in logs and his blog) statements about god as a metaphors, i dont get why trhough the Christian lens

13:16

you read God's blog?

13:16

it's called the Bible

13:16

God's blog the bible?

13:16

*

adlai wasn't aware that God was a blogger!

13:16

lol what

13:17

God's blog has a nice ring to it

13:17

I was brougth up Christian, so i am pretty familiae with the Christian Ortodox Bible

13:18

the orthodox church(es) lead(s) to hell

13:18

dpb: at least one of the Bible's books was authored by a man; and that is the Psalms, that were written by David during his time as a shepherd, before he became king. he claimed divine inspiration, although this is at best "ghostwritten by God"

13:18

The bible its just a series of memes that over the years got priced in as the best in the meme markets. And as we lacked proper technology to store information, religion served as such.

13:18

the orthodox church(es) lead(s) to hell << we are the TRB bruv, you guys are SegWit, mkay?

13:18

adlai, all of the books are authored by men. God causes all things and He caused His word to be written exactly as it always has been (the Bible is God Himself)

13:19

dpb: your statements about "the Bible" as a whole, are probably more correct if stated specifically about the Torah (first five books) rather than the entire Bible.

13:19

no, i mean the 66 books from Genesis to Revelation

13:19

gtg cath you mofos laterz

13:19

raw_avocado: ttyl

13:20

dpb: how do you reconcile that interpretation with the fact that certain of the chapters in the New Testament are quite clearly communications between the disciples of Jesus?

13:22

what is there to reconcile? These communications are part of God (the Word of God)

13:23

blech,maybe I should've focused on validating [][this] instead of my theosophical quibbles... at the very least, I should probably lay off the theosophy until I have at the very least skimmed over The Golden Bough, since there is a dead-tree copy gathering dust in my shelves.

13:23

that

13:23

Logged on 2021-07-23 08:56:14 raw_avocado: adlai: i *think* i grok the last 3 things you said.

13:25

dpb: I probably am not reading your statements in precisely the way that you intend, because you obviously do distinguish between these concepts, e.g. authorship as physically writing or copying a text, vs causing that text to be written.

13:27

there is one interpretation that the purpose for which natural language exists is to shield mere mortals from the raw reality and "Mind of God" (to borrow Hawking's phrase)

13:29

this interpretation does not have to be phrased teleologically; it can also be framed as an "Anthropic Principle", i.e., by virtue of the fact that human natural language is limiting, the emergent world remains comprehensibly bounded.

13:32

*

adlai returns to his communion with-and-against the "Old Testament of Classical Music"

~ 16 minutes ~

13:49

https://www.ise.io/casestudies/ethercombing/ " In the process, we discovered that funds from these weak-key addresses are being pilfered and sent to a destination address belonging to an individual or group that is running active campaigns to compromise/gather private keys and obtain these funds. On January 13, 2018, this “blockchainbandit”

13:49

held a balance of 37,926 ETH"

~ 15 minutes ~

14:04

https://privatekeys.pw/puzzles/bitcoin-puzzle-tx << interesting how many of these (at least for those past 63) have been found

~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~

15:33

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-00470-5_29 "esults show that ECDSA nonce reuse has been a recurring problem in the Bitcoin ecosystem and has already been exploited by attackers. In fact, an attacker could have exploited nonce reuse to steal 412.80 BTC" "we monitor the Pastebin feed from Sep 2017–Mar 2018 to find exposed secret

15:33

Bitcoin keys, revealing that attackers could have stolen 22.40 BTC"

15:34

ttp://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048153 <-- thx. this is good news, i guess..

~ 18 minutes ~

15:52

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048153 (fixed link)

15:52

Logged on 2021-07-23 04:43:20 adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-22#1048001 << iirc, merkle root of all detached signatures, using a tree structure that parallels the one of the transactions, goes in the coinbase input.

15:54

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048197 <-- thanks, i read the article. i also came accross this blog when i was looking into the July 2015 fork

15:54

Logged on 2021-07-23 08:28:12 raw_avocado: whaack: while on the topic of anyone can spend https://b10c.me/blog/007-spending-p2tr-pre-activation/

15:57

mats: I'm in a lot of leftist discords. I would do whatever possible to prevent them from getting any semblance of real power >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-21#1047607

15:57

Logged on 2021-07-21 17:55:35 mats: i'm satisfied with fighting socialists

16:00

thestringpuller: no actual 'left' or 'power' involved there. see also.

16:00

Logged on 2020-08-15 11:09:34 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019331 << elite successfully defused the slave uprisings of late 19th - early 20th c. with well-equipped toolbox containing e.g. controlled faux-'left' 'movements', inflationism, debtism, burning off excess resources w/ world wars, zombification via 'journalism'.

16:00

Logged on 2021-02-22 17:21:47 asciilifeform: the elite eagerly hand out faux-power to the plebes, like parents give rattles to children, to entertain and divert from 'breaking things'.

16:03

raw_avocado: interesting to note that there is a thin layer of protection already for taproot, namely that 'AreInputsStandard' function.

16:03

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-02-22#1032254 <<< sometimes 'breaking things' becomes form of entertainment, when kristallnacht needed.

16:03

Logged on 2021-02-22 17:21:47 asciilifeform: the elite eagerly hand out faux-power to the plebes, like parents give rattles to children, to entertain and divert from 'breaking things'.

16:05

asciilifeform: i wholeheartedly agree, but given the rejection of traditional media in lieu of edgy influeners modelled after Jon Stewart will likely create a generation of insane leftist politicians in 10 years or so

16:05

luckily black people hate socialism which is huge component of the left voting block in the states

16:15

shinohai: vehehery selective breaking.

16:15

Logged on 2019-12-02 02:26:44 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: disappointing, but unsurprising. in usa also riots ~always like that -- the designated 'kindling' (i.e. slums) burn, and (almost...) never the skyscrapers.

16:15

aha

16:25

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048345 << I was of the understanding that the entirety of Discord is a leftist shithole inhabited by dickgirls that program in Rust.

16:25

Logged on 2021-07-23 11:57:51 thestringpuller: mats: I'm in a lot of leftist discords. I would do whatever possible to prevent them from getting any semblance of real power >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-21#1047607

16:26

shinohai: discord -- a heathen aol-style chat service ?

16:32

asciilifeform: something like a disjointed irc + aol, yes

16:32

I can stomach a lot of shit, but 'slack' and 'discord' just not on the list.

16:33

*

asciilifeform has commercial clients who insist on 'slack' and similar. mega-cpu-eater.

16:37

a lot of net communities have fragged into slacks, matrices, discords

16:38

mats: if people want to live in aol, let'em live in aol

16:38

i followed some of em there, what can i do about it

16:39

mats: if someone wants to talk to asciilifeform via $proprietary_turd -- then has to pay.

16:39

like gynvael and his people who work on the paged out zine

16:39

who pays -- i'ma install telegraph, pigeon cage, whatever.

16:41

https://www.mdpi.com/2227-7390/8/10/1645/htm "we scanned a reasonably small subgroup of the multiplicative group (Z/qZ)∗, actually finding (against all odds) a few public addresses corresponding to elements of such group. Immediately after that, we devised a method to warn the anonymous bitcoin’s holders of this problem. Then, we followed a

16:41

prudent responsible disclosure behavior, not mentioning the current note publicly until 2020"

16:44

some groups like the greatscottgadgets people (plug: https://www.crowdsupply.com/great-scott-gadgets/luna ) have irc-discord bridges, which is nice

16:44

in more plugs, https://www.falstad.com/circuit

16:45

mats: what wouldja say might be the appeal of proprietary chat systems?

16:45

(... or are they simply a 'pushed' item)

16:45

emojis, voice chat, and centrally managed logging

16:46

less friction (i know about 2 flags for chans and users)

16:47

flags?

16:47

+m +v

16:47

a

16:48

*

asciilifeform never grasped the 'oh but logging' thing -- it aint as if there weren't 'over 9000' irc loggers published

16:49

but no one ever coughs up their log when i stroll in and ask for it

16:49

Slack has threads.

16:50

Discord was a cool place to practice foreign languages until Clubhouse came along.

16:50

thimbronion: it does, and i find maddening. much easier to eat a monotonically growing-at-the-tip log imho

16:50

*

whaack also finds slack's thread feature awful

16:51

i also hate how every damn topic gets its own channel

16:51

asciilifeform: Huh. I find threads very easy to follow in Slack.

16:53

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048372 << mats do you have an ice40 board yet ?

16:53

Logged on 2021-07-23 12:44:26 mats: some groups like the greatscottgadgets people (plug: https://www.crowdsupply.com/great-scott-gadgets/luna ) have irc-discord bridges, which is nice

16:53

I will typically ignore them if I'm not mentioned.

16:53

i have an icestick, but it languishes in a box since shipping

16:54

nmigen is very cool

16:54

*

asciilifeform has an unpublished port of FG to 'ice40', plus this, and coupla other items

16:56

mats: re: nmigen -- you may find strange, but asciilifeform aint fond of 'high level synthesis' systems.

16:56

they introduce gnarl where -- unlike von neumann machine -- you absolutely cannot afford it

16:58

i don't have an opinion on it, as an amateur looking in

16:59

mats: i expect you'll see what i mean when you try it

17:07

thestringpuller: what makes you think any of those people will 'have real power'?

17:09

socialists aren't a monolith, like CCP members, us elites, lizards, lumpens, workers, etc aren't a monolith

17:11

its just as important to know which roaches to step on, as it is which to nurture, or ignore

17:20

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048370 << unlike pgp -- 'sadly' there aint 'over 9000' utterly-broken walletrons. afaik. (possibly the folx who pop addr w/ ~serious~ coin in it, don't write academiwank papers about it..)

17:20

Logged on 2021-07-23 12:41:08 punkman: https://www.mdpi.com/2227-7390/8/10/1645/htm "we scanned a reasonably small subgroup of the multiplicative group (Z/qZ)∗, actually finding (against all odds) a few public addresses corresponding to elements of such group. Immediately after that, we devised a method to warn the anonymous bitcoin’s holders of this problem. Then, we followed a

~ 16 minutes ~

17:37

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048176 << afaik no sign that anybody threw him. most likely, 'yeltsin'-d to death.

17:37

Logged on 2021-07-23 05:15:19 adlai: now, if one of his friends speaks up and says that he was thrown off his yacht by some long-lost phriend who mysteriously appeared after decades of radio silence, that is a completely different story; yet the impression I got from the elegies was that the dude just went for a long swim in a quiet ocean.

17:37

Logged on 2021-06-27 13:21:21 signpost: asciilifeform: could be, but the guy didn't look healthy in pics recently

17:37

( that, or faked. )

17:37

Logged on 2021-06-27 13:20:11 asciilifeform: revisiting upstack: i can think of an a++ reason for mp to have faked his drowning : let's suppose he wanted to get off the net, and out of the obsessive-compulsive labours of posting a photo of erry cake he eats with 100kB+ of drivel to go with same ; and to wind up the s.mg nonsense, etc -- but somewhow without suffering the

17:38

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048174 << were you expecting his head on a pike, or wat.

17:38

Logged on 2021-07-23 05:12:30 adlai: I do wonder whether there are any details about his death, beyond the one dry news report, and few sopping elegies

17:39

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048156 << afaik entirely precise synonym. or rather, prb neologism, for sleight-of-hand.

17:39

Logged on 2021-07-23 04:45:48 adlai: answers his own question: one plausible hypothesis, is that "witness" is not a precise synonym, although you have to be a Professional Cryptographer to distinguish it from "signature", and its usage is a reminder to respect arguments from authority.

17:41

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048182 << supposedly in rural africa, human-roadkill can sit in place until naturally disintegrates/eaten by ravens. not errybody makes 'big deal' about corpse.

17:41

Logged on 2021-07-23 05:42:04 adlai: e.g., one friend who was partying in India literally had another partygoer die in his hands, probably due to various party drug complications; and was quite shocked to see the corpse get immediately whisked away for cremation.

17:41

'eh, pedestrians.. what's 1 less?'

17:42

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048191 << iirc it was mp who had the essay about 'tv rafts', what he called this.

17:42

Logged on 2021-07-23 08:21:48 punkman: https://docs.ata.network/mev/solutions/faas-or-meva/ << impressed at the sheer amount of "solutions" to getting fucked by the eth network.

17:42

(trilema) 2016-08-18 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b

17:47

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048404 <-- i have surfed at the beach where he was swimming, and from what i know about the spot i would hesitate to paddle out on certain days. iirc there was a sizeable swell hitting there when he passed. who knows what happened, but he wasn't swimming in a lake.

17:47

Logged on 2021-07-23 13:37:01 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048176 << afaik no sign that anybody threw him. most likely, 'yeltsin'-d to death.

17:49

*

asciilifeform also likes to swim in ocean, and knows that drowning doesn't require a 'thrower'

17:53

mats: slow conversion of turning audience members of political influencers into mobilized army - antifa is like the prototype which is why I avoid the west coast at all costs these days

17:54

also the popularity of bernie in those spaces is concerning

17:56

thestringpuller: are you familiar with ukr neologism 'technical candidate' ?

17:56

( subj )

17:56

Logged on 2020-07-16 18:27:22 asciilifeform: shinohai: wat diff does it make what a 'technical candidate' (in the ukr sense, y'know, the folx who were hired to put on a show of 'there's an election, with candidates') says ?

~ 15 minutes ~

18:12

well ok, go forth and make use of the idiots

18:14

study the promising charismatic folks, find the ones vulnerable to money/incentives/compromise/ego, use osint and your imagination to research

18:17

mats: i'd rather just understand their predictibility so I can exploit them if they get too powerful. what was that bob marley line "kill dem before dey grow"

18:18

uhh alright

18:19

havent changed at all huh

18:29

in largely unrelated lulz of possible interest to mats .

18:33

asciilifeform: i don't think this applies to local politicians from my experience, who tend to have a lot of power depending on that ordinance's budget. most socialist candidates in these races are highly influenced by the national discourse.

18:33

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048402 << plenty of wallets to look at. and not just bitcoin.

18:33

Logged on 2021-07-23 13:20:44 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048370 << unlike pgp -- 'sadly' there aint 'over 9000' utterly-broken walletrons. afaik. (possibly the folx who pop addr w/ ~serious~ coin in it, don't write academiwank papers about it..)

18:33

https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/023.pdf

18:33

"Experimentally, we found that for a 256-bit n, our case of interest for secp256k1, we were able to recover the private key from two signatures with 128-bit nonces by reducing a 3-dimensional lattice with 75% probability, from threesignatures with 170-bit nonces with a 4-dimensional lattice with 95% probability,from 4 samples with 190-bit nonces

18:33

with 100% probability; from 20 samples with242-bit nonces by reducing a 21-dimensional lattice with 100% probability, andfrom 40 samples with 248-bit nonces and 41-dimensional lattices"

18:34

"Most of the affected keys were part of multisignature addresses"

18:38

' In total, we computed around 300 Bitcoin keys with these techniques. As of this writing, 818,975 satoshis, or around $54, and 30.40 XRP, or about $14, remain in Bitcoin and Ripple accounts whose keys we were able to compute ... '

18:39

*

asciilifeform did some similar experiments in the phuctor days, found nuffin; unless you have a 100% novel boojum, other scavengers are likely to get to the goods long before you do

18:40

thestringpuller: idk what you have in mind, but the game hasnt changed in a thousand years, theres no substitute for going into the places they inhabit: discords, confs, meetings, events

18:40

anything else smells a lot like larping

18:40

and quoting bob marley doesnt inspire confidence

18:46

mats: i'm only want to prevent them from getting power. that's all.

18:54

thestringpuller: why is preventing "them" of interest?

19:08

what im saying is that the work isnt sexy, its plodding menial labor thats nearly always a deadend, and usually you cant stop anything

~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~

20:13

quite unrelatedly, asciilifeform was setting up auto-fallback via lte, and found a carrier that doesn't demand cc #, passport, etc. and 0 monthly charge. claims even to work in whole planet. more or less obvious imho nsa front, all packets routed via madrid. but -- 'cheap and angry'.

20:15

modem 'ibr650b' if anyone cares. metal chassis w/ heatsink, costs lunch money. be sure to switch to 'passthrough' mode, turns off the nat garbage and gives externally-connectable ipv4.

20:16

( iirc mats asked about this at one pt )

20:17

*

asciilifeform considers his packets 'public domain'. esp. if routed over whatever radios.

20:17

'water is wet'

20:21

big isp here has a package with dsl+4g modem. no switching downtime since both networks integrated on their end.

20:21

think I'll get it

20:26

punkman: no reason to have switching downtime in general, e.g. pfsense has convenient knob for multiwan.

20:27

( the above modem in particular has 2 jacks, and can act as switcher by itself. tho not tried this. )

20:30

incidentally, asciilifeform's dc gets a++ lte reception. any subscriber who'd like to colocate 1 of these things as a personal fallback pipe, pgpgram !!

~ 18 minutes ~

20:49

geez, thats big, i was thinking something like https://store.clemanis.com/en/minipci-express/1270-huawei-me909s-120-modem-minipcie-4g-compatible-pfsense.html

20:50

antennae is nice though

~ 35 minutes ~

21:26

mats: if you have an existing box w/ pci, can use that type

21:27

mats: i haven't yet found such that eats >1 sim tho (if you do, plox to write in). the 'ibr650b' has 2 sim ports and auto-switch.

~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~

22:36

verisimilitude

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-23#1048297 That's all the more reason to not give a damn about this nonsense. Apparently, the god of dpb wants me to curse him, so how could I be blamed for it?

22:36

Logged on 2021-07-23 09:10:44 dpb: no, free will is false doctrine. http://danielpbarron.com/atc/calvinism-and-arminianism/#total-depravity

22:38

verisimilitude

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-22#1048131 This is a very nice article. I also saw the table look-up as the obvious solution, but would've used a 256-trit table.

22:38