#alethepedia | 2020-12-04

(asciilifeform) 2020-11-02 asciilifeform: mats: it aint clear to me why 'chinese, national' cpu has to be made at enemy's tmsc.

08:07

sorry I meant to write that in the other channel.

08:11

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-02#1001381 << FYI, Duke of Qin (the source of these quotes) and gmachine1729.co

08:11

Logged on 2020-12-02 14:06:21 asciilifeform: thimbronion: pretty lulzy www. fella agitates for 'return china to cultural roots and isolation' aand doin' it in... english

08:13

FYI, Duke of Qin (the source of these quotes) and gmachine1729.com are two different people. Duke of Qin settled in America after growing up in Singapore, and intends to naturalize. "gmachine1729" is a second-generation American citizen who moved to China.

08:15

"gmachine1729" is nearly fluent in Russian and has been an advocate of teaching Russian instead of English as one's second language.

08:16

here is his other blog which is hosted by Livejournal: http://gmachine1729.livejournal.com/

08:21

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-02#1001426 << I am friends with a few, yea.

08:21

Logged on 2020-12-02 16:13:00 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: have you ever met any CCP members?

~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~

09:32

I know a thing or two about the CCP culture, in case asciilifeform or thimbronion have any questions.

~ 20 minutes ~

09:52

gregorynyssa: I think we were speculating about how the people who actually control China (CCP) think vs. Duke of Qin and spandrell.

10:00

thimbronion: very differently, I can tell you.

10:01

Duke of Qin doesn't speak for China. he grew up in Singapore and has settled in the USA. soon he will be an American.

10:01

I need to look into this Spandrell person. hadn't heard of him before.

10:02

gregorynyssa: see https://spandrell.com/.

10:02

!s spandrell

10:02

19 results

10:02

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03

10:02

tmsr - Log 2016-06-03

10:02

...actuallyasciilifeform: *spandrell*_: neato. why'd ya leave?*spandrell*...

10:02

...rcea_popescu: *spandrell*_ what's "sucks" mean here ?*spandrell*_: low...

10:02

...tea maker ?!*spandrell*_: press a buttonasciilifeform: *spandrell*...

10:02

http://btcbase.org/log-top-posters?start-date=2016-06-01

10:02

tmsr

10:02

top posterssince beginning of month, year, last year 25 71713 143401...

10:02

...nicoleci ▏ chonkin ▏ *spandrell*_ ▏ interviewee ▏ aquentson ▏ BigTexasBingo ▏ edivad ▏ TomServo ▏ *spandrell* ▏ amberglint...

10:02

All results can be found at http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=nbTJ

10:02

looking at it right now. oh man.. he is part of the HBD circle

10:03

Bell Curve! Charles Murray! Steve Sailer!!

10:04

gmachine1729.com also subscribes to that crowd, but unlike Duke of Qin, he has an insider's perspective

10:05

gregorynyssa: while I don't disagree with the theory that different groups of people have different IQs on average, I also have to look at how ineffective the hbd crowd has been at accomplishing anything.

10:06

to clarify, by insider's perspective, I meant regarding Chinese society.

10:07

gregorynyssa: and I am also disturbed by the near universal rejection of Bitcoin amongst them. Smells weird.

10:08

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-04#1001474 << interesting observation. I have a few ideas regarding why that is.

10:08

Logged on 2020-12-04 10:05:15 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: while I don't disagree with the theory that different groups of people have different IQs on average, I also have to look at how ineffective the hbd crowd has been at accomplishing anything.

10:11

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-04#1001476 << now that is strange. is Unz Review generally anti-Bitcoin?

10:11

Logged on 2020-12-04 10:07:32 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: and I am also disturbed by the near universal rejection of Bitcoin amongst them. Smells weird.

10:12

gregorynyssa: I can't recall them mentioning Bitcoin once. They must have, I'm sure, but it certainly hasn't been a focus of theirs.

10:13

Might be insteresting to add Unz to the search index.

10:15

gregorynyssa: In any case, I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on CCP thinking vs. HBD/NRX thinking.

10:16

thoughts or observations

10:30

I think the American HBD crowd has their thinking seriously clouded by Burkean Conservatism.

10:31

Chinese people are more amenable to some HBD concepts owing to their lack of proximity to religion

10:32

but they have difficulty connecting with the HBD community as its stands owing to their non-Burkeanism.

10:34

moreover, the espousal of HBD might be suppressed within China owing to the Chairman's renewal of commitment to Marxist orthodoxy.

10:34

as you know, Marxist orthodoxy inherently revolves around class-warfare, so discussions of race may be considered a threat.

10:43

I read some of the postings of this "spandrell" person. reminds me of "mats" if I may say so.

10:43

gregorynyssa: spandrell is a white dude though

10:45

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-04#1001491 << oh? since he quotes Duke of Qin and Steve Hsu, I thought he was part of that Chinese American Unz circle. nevermind.

10:45

Logged on 2020-12-04 10:43:59 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: spandrell is a white dude though

10:47

gregorynyssa: What aspect of HBD is Burkean?

10:50

granted, the HBD advocates don't use the same arguments as the Reagan Conservatives

10:51

but they still end up constantly implying things such as: that the possession and cultivation of friendships and

10:51

family-relationships is inherently virtuous

10:51

that evil people face inherent difficulties in trying to attain friendships and family-relationships

10:52

that moral virtue is based on the possession and cultivation of one's senses.

10:54

Dr Jordan Peterson's teachings, for instance, are simply a reformulation of Conservative principles in terms which Atheists can understand and embrace

10:57

in the end, the HBD crowd rediscovers the very essence of Conservative thought (but some members of this crowd think

10:58

it is somehow original to HBD, being highly ignorant of history) and that essence is:

10:58

that evil, sin, and crime, are not forces in themselves, but mere offshoots of the larger problem of eccentricity.

10:59

gregorynyssa: I didn't get that from HBD at all - If I could summarize it it would be: You can't have the benefits of Western Civilization w/o the nations that generated it in the first place.

11:04

I don't have the sources with me right now, but I have seen plenty of articles arguing that what is unique

11:05

about Western civilization is precisely that its constituents, owing to their genetics, had sharper senses than other

11:05

races, a consequence of which was that their relationships with each other were deeper and more genuine

11:07

gregorynyssa: Interesting. This is new to me.

11:09

there was this Race Realist blog called "faith and tradition" or something like that, which basically

11:09

focused on justifying the very idea through a scriptural basis.

11:10

gregorynyssa: What I've read has mostly been observational rather than theoretical. Just case after case of western civ failing to take hold in non-european populations with full access to european literature and science.

11:10

btw. Spandrell quotes Dr Henry Makow, who is also a Burkean

11:13

thimbronion: feel free to recommend some books or online articles.

11:13

I am not that well read with regard to HBD literature, but what I have seen definitely overlapped with the Burkean community.

11:14

gregorynyssa: having not read Burke it's quite possible I missed any and all queues.

11:16

gregorynyssa: My sources are all second hand, referenced mainly in podcasts like Freedomain radio. He references and interviews several IQ researchers.

11:16

fyi. Burke himself isn't even that important since his teachings have been refined and updated over the generations

11:18

major 20th century proponents of Burkeanism: Kirk Russell, William F Buckley, Joseph Sobran, Mortimer Adler

11:18

Edward Feser, Sir Roger Scruton

11:18

even CS Lewis, who is basically the theological version of Burke.

11:18

gregorynyssa: it's hard for me to muster up the will to read much of it, given how the movement has so spectacularly failed.

11:19

thimbronion: understandable.

11:19

but you see, I think the Alt Right will succeed

11:19

the suppression of the Alt Right is not really a partisan issue, but a generational one

11:19

it is the last gasp of the aging Baby Boomers who are struggling to stay relevant.

11:20

Curtis Yarvin

11:20

expressed similar tho

11:20

* expressed similar thoughts: https://americanmind.org/features/the-deep-state-vs-the-deep-right/

11:22

the Alt Right simply needs to bide its time, to wait for the Baby Boomers to fade away

11:23

correct me if I have grossly misjudged the situation haha..

11:28

gregorynyssa: perhaps you are right in one respect - the Boomers have successfully consumed all the capital generated by previous generations, and the only way forward for the next generation if it wishes to survive is to take *reality* into account.

~ 4 hours 5 minutes ~

15:34

thimbronion: that generation was really fortunate to have grown up in a high-prosperity, low-competition vacuum.

~ 6 hours 21 minutes ~

21:55

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-04#1001481 << they're, to a man, former (or, more hilariously -- current!!) goldtards. the kind who emit the most egregious sort of FUD, composed in fact largely of the nonsense they tell themselves to sleep at night

21:55

Logged on 2020-12-04 10:12:34 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: I can't recall them mentioning Bitcoin once. They must have, I'm sure, but it certainly hasn't been a focus of theirs.

21:55

(trilema) 2017-12-22 asciilifeform: 'You know it is one thing to think gold has some marvelous store of value because man has no way of inventing more gold or getting it very easily, so it has the advantage of rarity. Believe me, man is capable of somehow creating more bitcoin. … They tell you there are rules and they can't do it. Don't believe them. When there is enough incentive, bad things will happen.'

21:56

this is pestilential among anglotard 'right' / 'alt-right' / etc. folx. to the point that i can't recall ~one~ who did not at some point show symptoms.

21:57

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-04#1001504 << from cn pov, they've all the benefits they ~want~.

21:57

Logged on 2020-12-04 10:59:28 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: I didn't get that from HBD at all - If I could summarize it it would be: You can't have the benefits of Western Civilization w/o the nations that generated it in the first place.

21:57

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-04#1001521 << what would 'succeeding' even look like there ?!

21:57

Logged on 2020-12-04 11:18:44 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: it's hard for me to muster up the will to read much of it, given how the movement has so spectacularly failed.

21:58

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/alethepedia/2020-12-04#1001531 << if the current 20-30yo gen. 'took reality into account', would wagner+cyanide. like in berlin '45. cuz, elementarily, 'musical chairs'. without even so many chairs.

21:58

Logged on 2020-12-04 11:28:17 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: perhaps you are right in one respect - the Boomers have successfully consumed all the capital generated by previous generations, and the only way forward for the next generation if it wishes to survive is to take *reality* into account.

21:59

( see e.g. also . )

21:59