Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-11-07 | 2018-11-09 → ↓
00:42 mircea_popescu aok
00:54 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/actual-anthropology-yet-another-minor-function-of-the-functioning-harem/ << Trilema - Actual anthropology, yet another minor function of the functioning harem.
~ 8 hours 27 minutes ~
09:22 asciilifeform 'the toaster has a cancel button on it,' << lol!!
09:23 asciilifeform i've seen paper shredders with reverse gear, but those at least make some kind of sense ( unjamming )
~ 21 minutes ~
09:44 mircea_popescu yup.
09:44 mircea_popescu industrial red button very much different item
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09:45 mircea_popescu (most machine powered moving lines come with an emergency stop, which is also mandated by labour safety in many contexts and for good reason )
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09:46 lobbes am I the only one who has seen/used a cancel button on a toaster before? Put toast in for $maxtime, wait until it looks/smells done, hit button and bam, perfect toast.
09:46 mircea_popescu however, you eminently can't cancel toasting, it's the paradigmatic enthalpic process, and anyone with a college education (such as, presumably, anyone involved in the production of objects, and in general in any practical portion of white civilisation) would be aware.
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09:46 lobbes I guess the point is that it is redundant; pushing up on the main lever has the same effect.
09:46 mircea_popescu lobbes turning the knob back to 0 not exactly same ?
09:46 mircea_popescu there is, you understand this, there is no way to cancel toasting.
09:47 lobbes I've always seen it as "stop toasting" or "cease your toasting"
09:47 mircea_popescu the "cancelling" will happen either in the imagination ("this bread doesn't really look as if it were toasted so it wasn't") or else in the imagination some other way. but in reality, toasting is irreversible.
09:47 mircea_popescu but this is not the same thing, is it ?
09:48 mircea_popescu hence my point, re "they in the culture are strictly unable of either understanding or meaningfully describing culture"
09:48 lobbes true
09:48 mircea_popescu ie, i wouldn't trust george hunt to explain kawaikutl, ESPECIALLY because he washes and also speaks english./
09:52 mircea_popescu anyway, there's many portions of "what occurs" that occur strictly in the imagination. "healthy", for instance. this isn't fundamentally wrong -- but anthropology is specifically the scholarly delineation of these. as they're at least seemingly needed for normal functioning in most contexts, and generally adaptative, they're not readily accessible to the common intellect.
09:54 mircea_popescu as per "the soldier whio thinks he'll win makes a better soldier than the soldier who thinks he'll lose -- though nobody yet walked on a battlefield and won". or w/e, replace "gambler" for "soldier" if you prefer.
~ 18 minutes ~
10:13 jurov mod6: can we close the auction 10 hours early? I won't have much time tomorrow.
10:13 lobbesbot jurov: Sent 1 day, 15 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> is the http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=makefiles dead ?
10:16 jurov asciilifeform: yes dead for now, it was running on same heathenvps as the mailing list
10:27 asciilifeform jurov: can haz it again plox ? it was pretty great, i used it in all of my trb work
10:27 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870187 << i personally own several machines with such buttons, they make perfect sense
10:27 a111 Logged on 2018-11-08 14:45 mircea_popescu: (most machine powered moving lines come with an emergency stop, which is also mandated by labour safety in many contexts and for good reason )
10:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870189 << from that pov, 'you can't unsaw fingers' , either, yet the saw has the switch
10:29 a111 Logged on 2018-11-08 14:46 mircea_popescu: however, you eminently can't cancel toasting, it's the paradigmatic enthalpic process, and anyone with a college education (such as, presumably, anyone involved in the production of objects, and in general in any practical portion of white civilisation) would be aware.
10:30 asciilifeform i dun think there even ~is~ a power tool that dun fit the 'paradigmatic enthalpic process' formulation
10:31 asciilifeform ( 'stop' button on toaster is still a lol, thing has power cord, and i can't picture why you would want to cut the current faster than it takes to yank the cord, it ain't a saw )
10:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actually i can think of 1 industrial tool that is, to a degree, 'reversible' in the thermodynamic sense, even ~after~ finger went in. the thread cutter. standard instruction , if idjit gets his finger in, is to get him to stay put while the thing is slowly put in reverse, then ends up only with heavy bruise, rather than skinned (if pulled straight out)
10:39 mod6 jurov: sure, sounds fine to me.
10:41 mod6 I'm not sure how to close the auction prematurely. But...
10:41 mod6 !Xlist
10:41 auctionbot B#1006 O=311mn LB=310mn E=2018-11-08 13:48:41.550007 (10h6) >>> 2k wFF
10:41 auctionbot --- end of auction list, 310mn total bids ---
10:45 mod6 I'm prepared to accept the bid.
10:45 mod6 asciilifeform, BingoBoingo any objections here?
10:46 asciilifeform mod6: can't think of any ( but does the bot have an actual cancel-toast button ? )
10:47 asciilifeform cuz if it doesn't, the toast had better fully toast, or we're living in sin imho
10:47 mod6 If not, then jurov, please go ahead and send the wire to the DC ( you can use the same info from last time ). If you need the wire info again, please say so and I'll have BingoBoingo send it to you.
10:47 mod6 Also, please send me a btc addy to pay you at, will send the coins within 24 hours -- probably later today for sure.
10:48 mod6 asciilifeform: there is an !Xcancel, but not a close.
10:48 mod6 Not sure if cancel-toast would untoast the auction. I'd like there to be a record of the auction, so I'm fine to let it close by expiry.
10:50 diana_coman re auction bot: the way this sort of thing worked in eulora is basically by agreement; afaik there is no untoast button (nor do I see how it would make sense really)
10:50 asciilifeform imho letting auction carry on even tho the auctioned item already left the house , is playing with fire
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10:51 diana_coman asciilifeform, as long as one has replacement in case it's needed...; for the other part though, there is also the in-wot thing, not like "anyone can bid"
10:51 mod6 i can see that arg, asciilifeform. lobbes are you opposed to an !Xclose <auction_number> : which would accept the current highest bid? mircea_popescu, et. al. is this a good idea?
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10:51 asciilifeform troo
10:52 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863219 -> whine! I get the record neat representation part in Ada (or so I think). Re serialization though my current understanding is that I *have to* use ...Streams; is this even correct?
10:52 a111 Logged on 2018-10-16 13:56 diana_coman: at any rate when I get to the records I might come and whine loudly if I get stuck
10:53 asciilifeform diana_coman: hrm, why wouldja ~have~ to use streams ?
10:53 diana_coman asciilifeform, how can I serialize the record into an array of octets? I keep thinking there's something obvious that I just don't get
10:54 diana_coman or what, just unchecked on the whole thing?
10:57 asciilifeform diana_coman: http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/12rm/html/RM-B-3-3.html
10:58 asciilifeform diana_coman: either this, or the 'unchecked conversion' you had earlier (given that you specify a fixed size for the record, you will always end up with the given number of octets, it has no failure mode)
10:59 diana_coman hm, I kept thinking for some reason that there was a 3rd way (i.e. NOT streams and not unchecked) but I just did not see it; I'll have a look at the unchecked unions
11:00 asciilifeform i suppose the 3rd way would be to write simple serializer ( that uses System.Address and yourthing'Size ) to turn your record type into (and out of) the requisite # of octets, and compartmentalize all of the System.Address'ism in 1 module. i have something quite similar to this in my mmap lib.
11:01 asciilifeform but as for the q of 'can haz this without any smell of c sulfur' , the answr is no, because entire concept is slightly antithetical to adaism, and so you gotta 'cheat' at least a little in order to permit it.
11:02 asciilifeform according to the 'rationale' document, serialization is ~the~ reason why streams are even a thing
11:02 asciilifeform hence in 'nqb' , i used a (custom-sewn) stream
11:03 diana_coman that's the thing: wherever I turned re serialization it kept pushing the streams, hence my earlier "it seems I have to use streams,eurgh"
11:04 asciilifeform there's exactly 2 ways to do it -- the above conversion mechanisms, or the stream (read nqb to see how) . cuz transmutation of data types is a specifically dangerous act, that is deliberately not made easy in ada
11:04 diana_coman I still can't quite see the reason to make a stream in order to write a known-size record to a known-size array of octets though
11:04 diana_coman in this particular case the unchecked conversion still makes more sense to me
11:04 asciilifeform diana_coman: it's safe (i.e. endianism-proof) if you actually nail down the layout of the record (see barnes re how)
11:04 diana_coman I'll play a bit with those unchecked unions too though, I hadn't looked at them
11:07 asciilifeform when you do this kind of thing, you gotta make sure that the proggy behaves correctly regardless of what rubbish may have been put into the octet form that gets transformed to the record. ( possibly this is obvious, but imho bears restating )
11:09 asciilifeform type cast is the single most dangerous operation there is ( second only to pointerism, and notice how ada makes the latter extremely painful ) hence the thing forces you to 'measure 7 times, cut 1ce'
11:09 jurov asciilifeform: lxr should be back up
11:09 asciilifeform jurov: yay! ty!
11:10 diana_coman asciilifeform, I honestly don't feel any pain re pointerism as I don't miss it AT ALL
11:10 asciilifeform diana_coman: so far the only place i've used it, is c glue
11:10 asciilifeform ( i.e. where not escapable )
11:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform many things are "partially reversible". phb hanging over table ends up with necktie pulled in. reversible up to the isadora duncan moment.
11:11 diana_coman fwiw those past few days I had to get back to some C/CPP code and there was this funny moment where I read some code adding 2 vars of different types and my mind went instantly eeeek
11:11 diana_coman so yes, Ada spoils one basically
11:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: right
11:11 asciilifeform diana_coman: ikr ?
11:11 asciilifeform it's like going into sewer after working in cleanroom
11:12 mircea_popescu mod6 you can close it prematurely by convention, i guess. there's good reason not to have a dedicated button, however.
11:12 diana_coman quite! and unfortunately I'll still have the works in the sewer in parallel for quite a while
11:12 asciilifeform diana_coman: i'm sorta used to the 'eek', having a daytime saecular work that happens 100% in sewer
11:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870226 << what's the fire, you'll be stuck with, in the worst case, two items ? you can use them.
11:13 a111 Logged on 2018-11-08 15:50 asciilifeform: imho letting auction carry on even tho the auctioned item already left the house , is playing with fire
11:14 asciilifeform yea makes sense. diana_coman made same observation earlier
11:14 mircea_popescu kk
11:15 asciilifeform could be, i suppose, bigger headache , if auction were for the graf zeppelin, rather than some lunchmoney
11:15 mircea_popescu yes, well, in that case "i'm busy tomorrow" would carry a lot less water.
11:15 asciilifeform heh
11:15 mircea_popescu things work themselves out.
11:16 asciilifeform verily.
11:22 jurov We checked our notes and it came out that exact amount needed for pizarro datacenter payment is $2934.06 USD. The auction was intended for this amount, not just "$2k". Am i right mod6 BingoBoingo?
11:22 mod6 Yes, that's correct. I didn't put in the correct amount.
11:23 mod6 I thought we had it covered with the two previous auctions, but jurov thankfully noted that we'd have been short.
11:24 mod6 We will be using the same price amount per BTC:
11:24 mod6 !Qcalc 2000/.31
11:24 lobbesbot mod6: 6451.61290323
11:25 mod6 !Qcalc 2934.06/6451.61
11:25 lobbesbot mod6: 0.454779504651
11:25 mod6 jurov: Sound good?
11:25 mod6 Any other objections to this? asciilifeform, BingoBoingo ?
11:25 asciilifeform mod6: loox ok
11:26 jurov Yes, it's 0.45477950 BTC for $2934.06 USD.
11:27 mod6 Sounds like a deal, thanks a ton jurov!
11:32 mircea_popescu lmao
11:36 BingoBoingo Looking good
11:37 mod6 *thumbsup*
11:41 jurov Wire sent.
11:44 mod6 Nice, thank you, Sir. :]
~ 56 minutes ~
12:40 asciilifeform btw, diana_coman were you able in the end to make sense of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2675 proof ? ( mircea_popescu's s.mg broadcast implies that yes -- but thought i oughta ask conceretely )
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~ 32 minutes ~
13:13 BingoBoingo And in breaking news, Ruth Bader Ginsburg's ribs. She's on the wrong side of 85... Trump is probably getting a third Supreme Court nominee soon.
13:17 asciilifeform *concretely
13:17 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: lol!
13:17 asciilifeform a++ gerontocracy, would brezhnev again!1
~ 1 hours 15 minutes ~
14:33 bvt hello, i have finally genesised the ada base64 lib: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/11/base64-genesis/
~ 16 minutes ~
14:49 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870291 -> yes!
14:49 a111 Logged on 2018-11-08 17:40 asciilifeform: btw, diana_coman were you able in the end to make sense of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2675 proof ? ( mircea_popescu's s.mg broadcast implies that yes -- but thought i oughta ask conceretely )
14:57 asciilifeform diana_coman: ok good
14:58 asciilifeform bvt: neato, i will read
15:02 asciilifeform bvt: the base64 thing will come in very handy for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-01#1868643 item
15:02 a111 Logged on 2018-11-01 20:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: happens to be exactly what i set out to; on top of that, even got a gpg extractor (currently in py, but slated for adaization) , precisely for same
15:04 asciilifeform !!rated bvt
15:04 deedbot asciilifeform rated bvt 1 at 2018/10/10 21:20:12 << n00b, ada/vtronics experiments
15:04 asciilifeform !!rate bvt 2 adatronics
15:04 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/b1ACj/?raw=true
15:05 asciilifeform !!v 13E785BFE17551850FE162FA3F8EE8FCF0DC73E31F0F660C1BFF0E38BBEF6FFE
15:05 deedbot asciilifeform updated rating of bvt from 1 to 2 << adatronics
15:05 * asciilifeform will bbl
~ 44 minutes ~
15:49 bvt asciilifeform: thanks. radix-64 (gpg ascii armor) is pretty similar to the RFC base64, so changes to the code will be minimal.
~ 52 minutes ~
16:42 * asciilifeform was reading recent http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com , and ran into the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866726 item; curious, did anybody answer these ?
16:42 a111 Logged on 2018-10-27 17:17 hanbot: mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: nicoleci sent 31 emails (as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 ) to various news outlets last night, and will report any replies here. i expect more mail to go out this week, will update.
16:42 asciilifeform ( or was it 'blue wall of silence', phuctor-style )
16:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform none so far.
16:48 asciilifeform damn
16:49 asciilifeform i'dve naively thought that of 31 fishwraps , at least 1 is not fully retarded
16:49 asciilifeform ( even phuctor made it into some ru thing 1ce )
16:50 mircea_popescu i'd be surprised if, over the entirety of conde nast "portofolio", there's a man-day per day of actual attention available. http://trilema.com/2015/okcupidcom-the-dating-site/#selection-45.141-45.160 is in no different shape, and none of the smaller spamfarms differ in any sense.
16:50 asciilifeform most of'em prolly run 100% on perlscript nao, also
16:50 asciilifeform with 0 human in loop
16:51 mircea_popescu the way of the web is "have people talk into the bag", tv minds tryna hard to re-create tv out of the information superhighway truck.
16:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform as close as practicable, yes, bearing in mind however they use excel scripts.
16:51 asciilifeform ah yea
16:51 mircea_popescu so... some subhuman involved.
16:51 mircea_popescu not the kind that can actually respond to salutations tho. ("too much pressure").
16:52 asciilifeform subhuman is typically 'programmed' with '3ring' formulary binder, and we aint in it
16:52 asciilifeform 'hmm, letter re bitcoin, lessee what gavin says'
16:53 asciilifeform ( or whoever the fuck is the current gavin, i've lost track of the concretes )
17:03 BingoBoingo One of the people with an oddly Dutch appearing name
17:14 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/11/ontario-state-cannabis-store-and-canada-post-publish-information-on-canadian-stoners/ << Qntra - Ontario State Cannabis Store And Canada Post Publish Information On Canadian Stoners
~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~
18:34 mircea_popescu ie "everybody".
~ 1 hours ~
19:34 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870228 << the way !Xcancel works right now 'behind the scenes' is that it inserts the <auction_number> into the "closed" table. This isn't much different than when an auction "resolves" normally (<auction_number> also inserted into same table), the only difference is that the bot doesn't "announce" a winner when !Xcancel is used
19:34 a111 Logged on 2018-11-08 15:51 mod6: i can see that arg, asciilifeform. lobbes are you opposed to an !Xclose <auction_number> : which would accept the current highest bid? mircea_popescu, et. al. is this a good idea?
19:35 lobbes In other words, order history (along with all top bids, etc.) is preserved whether you !Xcancel or just let the auction run its course.
19:37 lobbes in other news: I'm going to be getting all 4 of my wisdom teeth yanked out tomorrow. While I'll be near my terminal, I may be out of commission for a few days. I'll be following the logs as usual (assuming I'm not knocked out from pain meds)
19:39 trinque that's a fun one; good luck lobbes
19:44 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-12#1642735 << relatedly, to add anecdotal evidence to this thread I can confirm: do not try and tempt fate by leaving these suckers in.. it feels like a vice-grip has been slowly tightening on my skull for the last few weeks..
19:44 a111 Logged on 2017-04-12 22:11 mircea_popescu: on the long term this pressure kills them as sure as sugar.
19:44 lobbes thanks trinque
19:44 * lobbes bbl meat
~ 18 minutes ~
20:02 mod6 Hey, thanks for the info lobbes. GL with the dentist.
20:03 mod6 !Xcancel 1006
20:03 auctionbot Buy order # 1006 was cancelled by mod6
~ 17 minutes ~
20:21 mod6 !!ledger
20:21 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VC1lc/?raw=true
~ 3 hours 16 minutes ~
23:37 trinque http://161.0.121.250 << hey all, opened up a public toilet for txn. probably doesn't even work. enjoy!
23:40 asciilifeform trinque: what's it made of ?
23:45 trinque about 5 lines of py
23:48 asciilifeform notbad
23:50 mircea_popescu !#seen mocky
23:50 a111 I haven't seen mocky
23:50 mircea_popescu !#seen Mocky
23:50 a111 2018-11-06 <Mocky> alright, lol
23:50 mircea_popescu did he cook ?
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