Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-10-29 | 2018-10-31 → ↓
00:07 BingoBoingo It's the sort of monkey noises I can't escape
00:08 mircea_popescu as fucking if, these morons trying to "write the news" as per 1980s usg.blue recipes. what are they, stuck with old magazines in an outhouse or something ?
00:09 BingoBoingo Yes, and they try to use "poetic license" as they do it
00:10 mircea_popescu schmucks.
00:12 BingoBoingo And they became the paper of record because El Pais adopted still more user hostile web design turd traps into their pages
00:14 BingoBoingo Thankfully Uruguay is a small country and I am young. They will not like it, but because I am young I have time to spend in the pursuit of lifting them.
00:15 BingoBoingo They will surely squirm and I will have to rehab my left shoulder several times. But I will lift them.
00:15 mircea_popescu committed huh ?
00:17 BingoBoingo I desperately need higher purpose in my life. Gloria the Peruana adores me so much it is ridiculous. My sex life offer no resistance in the medium. Pizarro is a struggle and I pursue that among peers.
00:17 BingoBoingo By contrast the Uruguayos...
00:18 BingoBoingo I come from a simple people
00:18 BingoBoingo These are a simple people
00:18 BingoBoingo And yet they could not be more alien
00:18 BingoBoingo I hate much about them
00:19 BingoBoingo And they hate the idea of me while loving and embracing the actual me
00:20 BingoBoingo Bitches yelling in the street this morning against Bolsonaro swoon when I say "Make Brasil and Empire Again"
00:22 BingoBoingo As a socially maladjusted fringe figure the Republic has lead me to living in a puzzle playground that fascinates me so incredibly much
00:23 BingoBoingo As I curse the undead zombies that doom me to walking the beach in the wee hours all by myself because a country with a car ownership rate near zero somehow managed to not adopt sane pedestrian customs
00:25 BingoBoingo This country is a god damned emotional see-saw and I don't know if I can quit it
00:26 deedbot http://bimbo.club/?p=70 << Bimbo.Club - What I wish I knew a month ago.
00:26 BingoBoingo But if I do, it will probably be like that time you moved to Argentina, thought you would go for citizenship, and left only to swear your next visit would be to put every single head on a pike
00:29 BingoBoingo And... my rant got upstaged by the escapee from the shittier part of Illinois. Well played nicoleci
00:29 mircea_popescu well... not bad.
00:29 mircea_popescu may your efforts be fertile!
00:30 mircea_popescu ahahah btw, thart's fucking genuine. bitch abandoned her car where they shot some people, ended up suspected perp/victim in multi-homicide.
00:30 mircea_popescu SERIAL KILLER BIMBO FTW!
00:30 BingoBoingo lol, did she really just cut the family out of her international move?
00:31 mircea_popescu i dunno, some weird drama. i guess fambly figured they owned her or soemthing.
00:31 mod6 drama
00:32 BingoBoingo Anyways, after spending more time here I went from seeing contrasts versus Argentines on landing, to similarities to Argentines during the time ben_vulpes was here, to now accepting the Uruguayos are weird and alien in a way that makes the Argentines look like hill billies
00:34 BingoBoingo Do you still have the traffic stop set up at the foot a castle Popescu?
00:37 BingoBoingo Anyways, I guess next time sell the car? Trade it for a pnoHe and then sell the pnoHe in destination?
00:46 BingoBoingo In still other anyways, where I am today I see the endgame where Pizarro survives to Profitability; I continue Qntra and other writing/social engineering, and gardening someting other than container chives while a republican colony settles down in this Martian hellscape wouldn't be a bad play.
00:47 mod6 that trb mars-lag tho
00:48 BingoBoingo Eh, I only shit hundreds of blocks at you out of short lag mis communications
00:48 mod6 :D
00:52 BingoBoingo Who knows maye 10 years down the line I catch up to the log summaries and manage to stabilize a cannabis cultivar that gives a pleasant head rush with minimal stupids and sedation in contrast to Pantsuit fad pressure dab shit.
00:53 BingoBoingo We live in [current year] and [soon to be current year] is ahead of us
00:53 mod6 i like this whogaveblox
00:53 mod6 preach
00:54 BingoBoingo !Q later tell danielpbarron are you still alive and doing alright?
01:00 mircea_popescu !Xsell 1.5bn 48 9.5k wFF q0
01:00 auctionbot Sell order # 1004 created by mircea_popescu: 9.5k wFF q0 Opening: 1.5bn ecu Ending: 2018-10-31 17:00:23.871700 UTC (47 hours)
01:00 mircea_popescu let's give this thing another try ; same riders as b4.
01:00 mircea_popescu mod6 BingoBoingo ^
01:02 mod6 hey hey!
01:06 mod6 trying to see how to bid on this thing
01:06 mod6 BingoBoingo you know how?
01:06 * mod6 rtfms
01:07 BingoBoingo !Xhelp
01:07 auctionbot http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/10/auctionbot-is-live/
01:08 BingoBoingo lobbes: Your documentation for auctionbot is notably missing how to bid
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01:10 mod6 yeah, not sure if I'm supposed to !Xbuy or not
01:13 mats my blog post is still forthcoming, just delayed a couple weeks. chinese class is picking up a bit, so i've been focusing my attention there
01:13 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i'd expect !Q to !X mapping, so !Xbid
01:15 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I'll give lobbes 24 hours to confirm before submitting to assumed mapping
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01:18 mircea_popescu sure.
01:18 mod6 I'll fire in a bid
01:18 mod6 !Xbid 1004 1.5bn
01:18 auctionbot mod6: Eggog: Your bid is too low. Opening bid is 1.5bn, you bid 1.5bn
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01:19 mod6 XD
01:20 mod6 !Xbid 1004 1500000001
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01:20 auctionbot Sell order # 1004: 9.5k wFF q0 Heard: 1500000001 from mod6. Ending: 2018-10-31 17:00:23.871700 UTC (47 hours 39 mins)
01:21 mircea_popescu top keks
~ 54 minutes ~
02:16 mircea_popescu sooo is archive.is dead nao ?
~ 33 minutes ~
02:49 mircea_popescu meanwhile in incomprehensible lulz, https://galacticconnection.com/recognize-characteristics-reptilian-possessed-hybrids/
~ 23 minutes ~
03:12 BingoBoingo So... the author is saying Sarah was a crocodile
03:15 * BingoBoingo still awake trying to ponder Wtf is up with Banksy
~ 19 minutes ~
03:35 mircea_popescu noooo-body knows!
03:36 BingoBoingo The more I look into Banksy the more spam filters he hits
03:37 BingoBoingo I am going to lay down and try to sleep more confused and scared than I have been since February, because this banksy thing is some serious boogeyman shit
~ 27 minutes ~
04:05 mircea_popescu lmao what now
~ 2 hours 20 minutes ~
06:25 diana_coman asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867369 -> there's something I don't get here: if A xor D xor F xor H = 0 then this imposes F xor H = A xor D and so you'd need to substitute that everywhere else because F and H are not anymore free to be whatever or the initial a xor d xor f xor h won't hold anymore; more precisely: further down the line for instance at W(2) that F xor H is in fact A xor D so A does actually still appear,
06:25 a111 Logged on 2018-10-29 23:13 asciilifeform: if you have d,f,h, such that a == d xor f xor h ( or if you like , a xor d == f xor h , or a xor d xor f == h , it's transitive) then a term disappears from the eqn
06:25 diana_coman no? (specifically, W(2) = (RL11 (XOR C (XOR A D) (RL11 (XOR B E G (RL11 (XOR A D F H #9e3779b9 0)) #9e3779b9 1)) #9e3779b9 2)) )
06:27 diana_coman the above is what I meant earlier by the effect of A (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867350)
06:27 a111 Logged on 2018-10-29 22:56 diana_coman: basically I get http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867091 BUT can't yet follow it to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867092 mainly because it seems to me that the effect of A is basically in fixing d,f,h (so that xor(a,d,f,h)=0); in short: wouldn't a change (of any number of bits) in a trigger (if imposing xor(a,d,f,h)=0 still) changes further in b-h so that the resulting key schedule is different? theoretically that would be the ration
~ 16 minutes ~
06:44 diana_coman in short: I am not yet able to fully eliminate A when I impose that (XOR A D F H #9e3779b9# 0)=0 ; do you actually have the re-rewritten transformations without A anywhere?
~ 1 hours 50 minutes ~
08:35 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867577 << ty! fixed: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/10/auctionbot-is-live/
08:35 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 05:08 BingoBoingo: lobbes: Your documentation for auctionbot is notably missing how to bid
08:35 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867581 << I can indeed confirm that lobbesbot's !Q command syntax maps to auctionbot's !X (e.g. !Qbid 1000 10mn == !Xbid 1000 10mn)
08:35 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 05:15 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'll give lobbes 24 hours to confirm before submitting to assumed mapping
08:35 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867585 << oy. this is a minor bug (a simple "<=" instead of "<" in my coad). I'ma fix right now (auctionbot commands temporarily suspended, one second..)
08:35 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 05:18 auctionbot: mod6: Eggog: Your bid is too low. Opening bid is 1.5bn, you bid 1.5bn
08:38 lobbes okay, maintenance complete, bug fixed
08:38 lobbes (and commands back online)
08:47 * lobbes off to sit on saecular stake for 8 hours. bbl
~ 19 minutes ~
09:07 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867432 << thinking about it, yes i agree the jew-nazi has a more colorful life story. but think about it : his entire's life work, his sum total accomplishment, is being an aide to an obscure publisher of inconsequential tracts. this is exactly danielpbarron 's position, and it ain't much. that florida beauty queen had them beat, for instance, and she had them beat a) in her 20s, while these
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09:07 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 01:58 BingoBoingo: I'd take banksy a lot more seriously if he caught the bad side of the feds, won on appeal, touched the republic, then decided he could stack his own chairs just fine as he proceeded on his moon mission
09:07 mircea_popescu are 30something men and b) while her brain's the size of a pea.
09:18 mircea_popescu lobbes regression eh!
09:27 mircea_popescu diana_coman http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-126940 << for your lulz compartment.
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09:33 diana_coman mircea_popescu, the parallel is actually quite striking, yes; otherwise though, if there is ONE thing that living in several countries teaches one is that there is nothing "Romanian" , yes
09:33 mircea_popescu right.
09:33 mircea_popescu nation of stupid.
~ 30 minutes ~
10:04 mircea_popescu meanwhile in lulz of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864592 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858624 i give you... http://archive.is/mrxeg#selection-3577.0-3577.152
10:04 a111 Logged on 2018-10-21 21:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864445 << not so, was briefly dead but then adobe released a new set after 5+ years silence and it's catching back up.
10:04 a111 Logged on 2018-10-05 17:45 BingoBoingo: Anyways, the point is the cannabis forum wankers essentially invented their own Monsanto in the same way Linus and the men alone invented their own Microshit
~ 47 minutes ~
10:52 asciilifeform diana_coman: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/aZuZQ/?raw=true << example of term elimination. but tbf i'm still working from the hypothesis that i must be mistaken, somewhere, and all of the keybits are conserved, and could prove this somehow...
10:52 asciilifeform *tbh
10:54 asciilifeform the alternative is simply too lulzy to take seriously, just nao
10:54 asciilifeform diana_coman, mircea_popescu : i'ma feed the thing into an algebratron later tonight
10:55 diana_coman asciilifeform, so you set A to the constant so that it cancels out with that rather than "any A as long as (xor a d f h)=0"
10:56 asciilifeform diana_coman: correct, i haven't found the item i was looking for, thus far
10:56 asciilifeform ideally what i'll find is a proof that there are exactly 2**256 528byte expansions .
10:57 asciilifeform 2nd best, is that i find the pill.
10:58 asciilifeform i'm quite reluctant to continue with the fpgaization thing unless i can get at the former.
11:04 mircea_popescu this makes sense.
11:05 diana_coman for anyone following along, I can confirm I got same as mircea_popescu here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867338
11:05 a111 Logged on 2018-10-29 21:54 mircea_popescu: K = 0101, P = 1110. RB = (1110), (1101), (1011), (0111). E1 = 1 x 1 x 0 = 0 ; E2 = 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 ; E3 = 1 x 0 x 1 = 0 ; E4 = 0 x 1 x 1 = 0 ; E = 0100.
11:08 mircea_popescu *thumbsup*
11:08 mircea_popescu now if only i managed to get these right on the first pass, stop confusing the shit out of everyone...
11:20 asciilifeform hey i too supplied some high octane confusium with which to be confused!11
11:29 mircea_popescu gotta build a republican chill pill plant.
~ 25 minutes ~
11:55 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867617 << this is lulzy indeed -- 'let's replace 1 hash where we dun have proof of injectivity with ~another~ where we dun even know where to start proving' ?!
11:55 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 13:27 mircea_popescu: diana_coman http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-126940 << for your lulz compartment.
11:56 asciilifeform ( ftr i dun currently have the faintest notion re how to prove that keccak is injective )
11:56 asciilifeform ( does PeterL ?? )
11:58 mircea_popescu i've temporarily misplaced the discussion of "let's say what can be said", brb finding it.
12:00 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-11#1270344 << uncovering lulz in the process. ahh, recall back when usg thought it could BUY the republic ?
12:00 a111 Logged on 2015-09-11 12:10 mircea_popescu: Blythe Masters says US lags in blockchain use (ft.com) / Over $60 million in funding raised for bitcoin companies this week alone. / bla bla << "To sum up : what we have so far are a few millions invested in hopeless start-ups that have no talent, no business model, aren't solving a problem and generally speaking don't exist other than as a tag on an orange calling it a potato." / http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of-
12:01 mircea_popescu not enough "money" in the imaginary world for THAT, bitches!
12:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall poor old al schwartz's reply to s.nsa ? 'if you succeed you will be killed or bought'
12:02 mircea_popescu menalone.
12:02 asciilifeform also a++ tautology, 'hey, y'say not killed or bought yet? clearly not succeed yet'
12:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-16#1020689 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-15#1644151 (and of course, all skirting for http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/ )
12:04 a111 Logged on 2015-02-16 06:45 mircea_popescu: read one police report of crime x, you've read half of them. read ten, you've (practically) read them all. clinical psychology is only interesting to the patently insane, as a practice. otherwise all the notes say endlessly the same five or six things. there just aren't that many things to say.
12:04 a111 Logged on 2017-04-15 17:27 mircea_popescu: given the list of all the things that have been said already (this is really a tree, but in his perspective it's flattened into a list by nulling out all the values associated with the string nodes), his choice is :
12:05 mircea_popescu holy shit, check that out, i found one of these for once.
12:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so, the above : dood "wants to contribute". this want leads him through the rest.
12:06 asciilifeform there's an imho moar pertinent mircea_popescu piece, where 'archaetypical kid made gift for mother, out of acorns and matchsticks' or how did it go
12:07 mircea_popescu there's also that.
12:07 asciilifeform ( some folx 'want contribute', but mysteriously can't be arsed to actually load open problem into head )
12:07 asciilifeform it's perhaps excusable for a 4 y.o. kid, but is odd when from adult
12:07 mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/t2Mou/?raw=true << dude fucking webtard sites... who the fuck lives like this ?!
12:08 mircea_popescu it's ~still~ not done loading!
12:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wtf is that
12:08 mircea_popescu some rando website.
12:08 asciilifeform ... from spam log ?
12:10 mircea_popescu some fetlife chickie.
12:10 asciilifeform aa
12:11 mircea_popescu "I am Goddess KK I am an Interactive Fetish & Glam Model and ON pornhub and youtube! .. Bacially a Freak of Nature."
12:11 mircea_popescu i suppose you're missing out
12:11 mircea_popescu (she's also evidently lying about her age, tired 30yo hobag tryna pretend to right-outta-college-dom)
12:13 asciilifeform i aint an subj expert, but don't all cheap whores market as 'fresh' for as long as it is half-possible ?
12:14 mircea_popescu aactually... "I LOVE MY FANS XOXO I do Professional Foot Modeling, Fetish Work. I created this for exposure and business, Plus I love the Fetish World. I have experience with Photoshoots, Traveling, BDSM, PRO DOMME, Foot Fetish Services, and Foot NIght International, video editing, production, directing. I started from the ground up and am proud of the climb.
12:14 mircea_popescu I create and sell fetish porn on clips4sale, and i create funny sexy vids on YouTube and some HOT sexy teasers ON PORNHUB. I created my website [https://www.kelllikellly.com] I am very proud of my website, i own it as well and updates soon!! CHECK IT OUT, Do it cuz it’s actually awesome and I mean hello.... I made it. Soooo Im a YoungMILF, i am independent and live a happy life. If your wanting an in person session, message
12:14 mircea_popescu me for detials $ I also offer webcam services xooxo"
12:14 asciilifeform kinda how americanfootballists keep playing until their legs won't carry'em
12:14 mircea_popescu pardon the spam ; i bothered because honestly, this is paradigmatic. i dunno any pantsuits ACTUALLY exist ; but i know for sure there's millions of these rachel-hos.
12:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i suspect roughly same dynamic as old-style spam. i.e. 'i heard others are doin' it, there gotta be moneys in it, so i'ma buy a webcam and interactivefetish kit'
12:16 mircea_popescu i think it goes deeper than that. the fundamental, biology-based female strategy is "here i am".
12:16 asciilifeform if man-alone dreams of 'money while sleep', fman-alone -- of 'money with dildo'
12:16 mircea_popescu in 2010s, this "here i am" is ^
12:16 mircea_popescu just like in the 80s, that same "here i am" was http://trilema.com/2016/portrait-of-an-adult-woman/
12:16 mircea_popescu imo technology brought decay, but hey.
12:18 asciilifeform main imho tech problem of our time, is that brekekekekex-amplifier is a penny while effective filter is a pound+.
12:18 mircea_popescu aaahahah, "Entrepreneur at its finest, Kelli Kelly, so good you had to say it twice. Aspiring to become a Motivational Speaker and Author. Fresh and unique with uplifting energy you will feel immediately entering her presence. Kelli has a different story and comes from a very different upbringing. Her experience is what " << chick's got a linkedin too. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelllikellly/
12:19 mircea_popescu all her friends are liek... Jennifer Best Fetish Model at Jennifer Best ; charlotte peters retired at home ; Miss T. Fetish Clip Producer, Fetish Performer, Glamour Model, Lingerie Model , Fetish Model, FemDom
12:19 * asciilifeform pictures koreans pronouncing name, ends up hashing to 'beriberi'
12:20 mircea_popescu SO GOOD YOU HAD TO SAY IT TWICE!
12:26 mircea_popescu diana_coman answered.
12:28 diana_coman mircea_popescu, but uhm, isn't that precisely the example I give in the comment and which leads to the wrong value? this: but with the formula above it would be E(2)= P(2) xor 0*P(1) xor 1*P(2) xor 0*P(3) xor 1*P(4) = P(2) xor P(2) xor P(4) = 1 xor 1 xor 0 = 0 .
12:29 * diana_coman brb
12:31 mircea_popescu diana_coman E[2] = 1 (because P[2] = 1) xor 1 (because K[2] = 1 and RB2[2] = 1) xor 1 (because K[4] = 1 and RB4[4] = 1). thus E[2] = 1.
12:41 asciilifeform i gotta admit that i still dun grasp how to decipher unambiguously into 1 single orig plaintext
12:42 asciilifeform the gaussian elimination thing would work if you had add (as in with carries) rather than xor
12:43 asciilifeform but what you have instead is addition over , if you will , galois field
12:44 asciilifeform perchance i can provoke mircea_popescu into writing a proggy that deciphers ?
12:45 asciilifeform ( spoiler, btw -- if you had normal addition, yer algo reduces to 'multiply P by K', it'd then be exactly my 'egyptian' multiplier )
12:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform fuck me, NOW i understand what you were on about yest --- E aren't THE RESULTS, but merely THE LAST BIT of a result. consequently, not actually eq system.
12:46 asciilifeform aha.
12:46 asciilifeform what you got, is egyptian mul, with thrown out carries.
12:46 asciilifeform they go to /dev/null, there is no way to get'em back deterministically.
12:48 asciilifeform ( xor is == halfadder )
12:50 asciilifeform ( 'egyptian div', btw, is pretty much exactly gaussian elimination , restated )
12:51 asciilifeform the closest thing i can think of to a working variant of mircea_popescu's device, is where you keep the carries, and use primes... and we know it as.. rsa
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12:53 asciilifeform ( tho the reason why rsa is based on exponentiation, rather than straight multiplication-of-'plaintext'-prime-by-seekrit-prime is that in the latter variant you could trivially extract seekrit-prime with gcd )
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12:54 asciilifeform and yes if you had fast iron bignumtron, could use ordinary rsa and dispense with enigmas.
12:55 asciilifeform ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867259 )
12:55 a111 Logged on 2018-10-29 20:56 asciilifeform: the basic boojum is that it aint a cipher of any kind, and the ubiquitous sbox derpery is simply squid ink to obscure this. maslennikov details how he pointed this out to 1980s kgb and got sacked.
12:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i agree with you, this is a shredder not a cipher ; moreover -- if we for instance tried to add say crc into the message as padding, then therefore we'd be by the same hand introducing structure, ie weakness.
12:56 mircea_popescu and i further agree with you -- it is a very strong commentary and ceiling upon the security of "block ciphers". because yes, literally, all otehrs are just this with magic-numbered RBs. which... is EXACTLY the same "introduce say crc", except hidden under so much smoke.
12:57 asciilifeform reasonable cipher requires element that is at least a ~conjectured~ trap door (i.e. 'entry is a buck but exit is two'), e.g. exponentiation-with-primes
12:59 asciilifeform in '16 i burned coupla months on the q of 'can haz', mainly on np-hard problems / turing-complete cellular automata, in place of sboxation. but got stuck on the 'guaranteed hard instance' boojum.
12:59 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867702 <<< very much this ; whereby it's actually the case we're starting to move towards an actual completion of the fucking field.
12:59 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 16:51 asciilifeform: the closest thing i can think of to a working variant of mircea_popescu's device, is where you keep the carries, and use primes... and we know it as.. rsa
13:00 asciilifeform it's the reason for asciilifeform's lulzsubmission to mircea_popescu's 'block contest'. it wasn't even joak, it was 'rsa is the only tool in that box that i have any reason to think actually worx'
13:02 mircea_popescu there will be no altcoin ; there will be no alt-cipher ; this is a jealous god we got here.
13:02 asciilifeform seems like
13:02 asciilifeform of course it is possible to come up with infinite variety of garbage ciphers that 'hey it confused me!' but imho not very useful activity
13:02 mircea_popescu "is living of course in a state of sin"
13:02 mircea_popescu the problem is irreducible, either you mix entropy in or you don't.
13:03 mircea_popescu attempts to act "as if you had" will result in the above -- shredder.
13:03 asciilifeform in '16 we trivially reduced it to symmcipher == prng == hash
13:03 mircea_popescu and that stands.
13:03 asciilifeform ( they're the same thing, if you had a provably working one, you get the other 2 gratis )
13:04 asciilifeform sorta why it did not make sense to asciilifeform that people sat and 'i'ma make a hash', 'i'ma make a cipher', a good x is exactly a good y
13:05 asciilifeform ditto prng. they're legs of triangle.
13:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform let's try something else. suppose key = 512 bit prime and suppose cipher works as E = P ^ K | 2^512.
13:07 asciilifeform to make life even harder, rsa also suffers from 'can haz provably hard case' problem, there's classes of 'easy' primes, and no particular reason to think that we exhaustively know all of'em..
13:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: multiplication with snipped off top half ?
13:08 asciilifeform how wouldja get P back ?
13:08 mircea_popescu exponentiation.
13:08 asciilifeform it's the add-without-carry thing again
13:08 asciilifeform you got a buncha intermediate addition bits that sink to the bottom of the sea
13:09 mircea_popescu myeah. there's just no wai outs.
13:09 asciilifeform ( in the | 2^512 )
13:09 asciilifeform whereas if you don't throw them out, you have a reversible thing that is just multiplication, and i can gcd(p1,p2) == K.
13:09 asciilifeform err, e1,e2
13:10 asciilifeform ( i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867703 )
13:10 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 16:53 asciilifeform: ( tho the reason why rsa is based on exponentiation, rather than straight multiplication-of-'plaintext'-prime-by-seekrit-prime is that in the latter variant you could trivially extract seekrit-prime with gcd )
13:10 mircea_popescu ayup
13:12 asciilifeform ( the 'intuitive' cure, 'let the primes be a sequence of primes, no prime used twice' is still breakable with fermat )
13:13 asciilifeform rsa & c-s (the latter, really a narrowed elgamal) are the only 2 oasis i know to exist in that desert.
13:19 asciilifeform for thread-completeness, asciilifeform will mention that he does not believe that ecc, as seen in bitcoin, is necessarily strong -- if there's a break, we won't hear of it unless somebody is catastrophically stupid -- it is analogous to those old safes that included 10 pounds of thermite for erry pound of benjie, torch it and you lose whole thing
13:21 asciilifeform imho bitcoin is a quite poor cryptological 'mine canary' for this reason.
13:26 mircea_popescu possibly.
13:38 asciilifeform same observation arguably can be applied to errything else tho, so i'm not entirely sure it's a useful one.
13:44 diana_coman mircea_popescu, we agree on the result but not on the formula, lol; your formula says e(2)=p(2) xor k(1)*p(1) xor k(2)*p(2) xor k(3)*p(3) xor k(4)*p(4) right?
13:45 diana_coman and then I read the rest of the log; ofc
13:51 mircea_popescu as best i can tell -- the only options are either keep using serpent or else use some kind of recursive hash otp
13:51 mircea_popescu like keccak(keccak(bla+salt))
13:52 mircea_popescu diana_coman did we end up with an ada impl of mersene twister at some juncture ?
13:52 diana_coman mircea_popescu, yes
13:52 diana_coman for the udp tester
13:54 mircea_popescu i suppose that could be the backup alternative then : if we end up ditching serpent, we use a rsa packet to move ~1.4kb of entropy for initializing the mt, and then use mt generated pads for a cipher.
13:55 asciilifeform iirc you can trivially extract next-state of mt if you get 1
13:56 asciilifeform ( and from there, whole chain )
13:57 asciilifeform gotta point out, serpent aint dead yet
13:58 mircea_popescu yeah ; and it'd better not be, the floor keeps crumbling underneath.
~ 16 minutes ~
14:15 asciilifeform in unrelated minor lulz, discovered yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865517 : 213.148.193.153
↖ ↖
14:15 a111 Logged on 2018-10-23 22:46 asciilifeform: i suspected shitfork, when realized that the 501 blox gotta be a few kB most, ea. -- my pipe couldn't disgorge 501 human-sized blox in <2sec
14:15 asciilifeform evidently there's a number of these.
14:15 mircea_popescu a grosse.
14:16 asciilifeform more interestingly, there was even 1 of 10/30/18 17:05:41 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED from peer 213.148.193.153
↖
14:16 asciilifeform i.e. it's not simply an alt
14:16 asciilifeform but a reasonably fresh, evidently, forkism
14:17 asciilifeform aactually strike that, CheckBlock is called prior to bastardization litmus, http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1232
14:18 asciilifeform tests for outrageous timestamps, sad pow, mutilated tx format
14:19 asciilifeform ( i'm not actually certain why we do this test prior to bastardism, there's 0 point running any test on a block that fails do-we-have-its-father litmus . really this is leftover logic from removal of orphanage )
14:20 asciilifeform btw, BingoBoingo , re waaay upstack -- trb 'throws bastards' from the simple reason that it doesn't keep track of peer heights, and ~always~ retransmits any block that it gets and happily welds to longchain
14:21 asciilifeform to errybody.
~ 17 minutes ~
14:38 BingoBoingo So, in local bullshit it turns out the closed Zoo still has fucking animals https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/murio-clorinda-la-hipopotama-del-zoologico-de-villa-dolores-20181030115114
14:39 asciilifeform lolwat!
14:39 BingoBoingo Apparently the bum encampment that is the closed Zoo actually still has exotic animals including this recently deceased hippo
14:42 asciilifeform i gotta wonder what else they've got; maybe also a lunapark where only the employees get to ride
14:43 * asciilifeform definitely tried to go to this zoo, gate was padlocked erry single day
14:43 BingoBoingo Linked stories at the bottom suggest back in 2016 while they were still closed, some kangaroos were stolen
~ 24 minutes ~
15:08 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/10/usg-communications-commisioner-advocates-centralization-and-crackdown-on-unauthorized-radio-frequency-use/ << Qntra - USG Communications Commisioner Advocates Centralization And Crackdown on "Unauthorized" Radio Frequency Use
15:21 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: phunphakt -- in ye olde su, radio 'hooliganism' (as it was called) was rampant, almost rite of passage for electronics experimenters, and penalty was pretty soft by current-day reich's standards (generally limited to confiscation of the gear. which was made from junkyardwars at any rate, so not particularly big deal)
~ 19 minutes ~
15:41 BingoBoingo My impression is generally Soviet Union penalties post Stalin were soft compared to current Obamareich
15:42 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: largely troo. with the exception of a few speshul trainflakes kept in 'психушка' , max term of imprisonment was 15y -- for instance.
15:44 asciilifeform to merit shooting, had to be either spy, or serial killer, or at least illicit gold dealer (1 afaik case , under hruschev)
15:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ok, how about this : let K being the key n bits long (say 512), and let f(x) = 2 * K[0] * x ^ n + 3 * K[1] * x ^ n-1 + 5 * K[2] * x ^ n-2 + 7 * K[3] * x ^ n-3 + 11 * K[4] * x ^ n-4 +...+ 3643 * K[n-2] * x ^ 2 + 3659 * K[n-1] * x + 3659. f(x) will produce a pile of bits, this pile is cut in half and xored together, the result is cut in half again. one such half is returned as the prng output ; the other such half
↖
15:50 mircea_popescu is cut up into as many whole chunks of equal size to K as possible and the resut of their xoring together is the new K. stateful prng.
15:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: loox, at least superficially, like a ok prng (for tetris at least). but how didja get the idea that it's fit for cipher ?
15:51 mircea_popescu i didn't, i'm just fucking about.
15:53 asciilifeform lolk
15:56 mircea_popescu to use it as a cipher i'd do a K exchange and then f(P-1) xor P = E. where P-1 is the previous message.
15:59 asciilifeform these are very easy to make up.
15:59 asciilifeform much moar difficult to say whether is worth anyffing.
15:59 * asciilifeform brb,teatime
15:59 * mircea_popescu will now desist.
15:59 mircea_popescu though it seems on some level this is a religious behaviour, "very easy to come up with ideas very hard to evaluate them". well... something's defo broken then!
↖
16:13 diana_coman mircea_popescu, uhm, I thought that there was at least ONE thing clear: namely that "something's defo broken"
~ 15 minutes ~
16:28 mircea_popescu myeah.
16:38 deedbot http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2632 << Loper OS - Terms -88 of the Serpent Ciphers Key Schedule in Algebraic Form.
16:38 asciilifeform lol deedbot hates ellipsisen
16:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, diana_coman ^ still needs the elementary reduction massage, but i went ahead an' posted, in case somebody wants.
16:41 asciilifeform if we end up not breaking the thing, it'll go straight to generating the verilog logic for the key unroller.
16:42 mircea_popescu pure xor form. nice.
16:43 asciilifeform still needs alge-massager to turn all the e.g. (XOR 1 b21 e21 g21 (XOR 0 a10 d10 f10 h10)) into (XOR 1 b21 e21 g21 a10 d10 f10 h10)
16:51 diana_coman it actually helps (with following the whole thing) to see this intermediate step too (rather than just directly the fully massaged version)
16:51 asciilifeform really, 1) flatten the tree 2) group the constants together 3) xor the constants into one 4) eliminate duplicate terms
16:51 asciilifeform diana_coman: is wai i posted
16:51 diana_coman aha, thank you!
16:51 asciilifeform lemme know if any part of it dunmakesense.
16:52 diana_coman will do
~ 15 minutes ~
17:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not like xor is associative, is it ?
17:08 mircea_popescu [bit:31] = (a18 x a28 x a30 x a8 x a9 x b19 x b29 x b7 x c18 x c30 x c8 x d18 x d19 x d28 x d29 x d30 x d8 x d9 x e19 x e29 x e30 x e7 x e8 x f18 x f19 x f28 x f30 x f8 x f9 x g19 x g29 x g30 x g7 x g9 x h18 x h28 x h30 x h8 x h9) ?
17:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is, try it
17:09 asciilifeform entirely associative, and transitive.
17:09 mircea_popescu ah yes, obviously.
17:09 asciilifeform an' commutative.
17:09 mircea_popescu ok, i need to go get some sleep, this is getting ridoinculous.
17:09 asciilifeform nighty
17:10 diana_coman asciilifeform, fwiw this code is actually so nice to read; and no, I don't see any trouble with it nor anything that doesn't make sense (I did have to search for some of the lisp routines but that's just my lack of lisp-fu and it was easy enough to find out what they do more clearly)
17:10 asciilifeform diana_coman: yay
~ 15 minutes ~
17:26 asciilifeform diana_coman: later tonight i'ma post the version with reduction
17:27 asciilifeform ... at the end of which, we will know if all of the key bits actually appear in the expansion.
17:27 asciilifeform which will answer the orig puzzler.
17:28 asciilifeform we will also know if some appear more times than others, i.e. producing a nonflat keyspace.
17:28 asciilifeform (contrary to author's claim of entirely-flat keyspace)
17:29 asciilifeform and, if we feel like it, can apply the sboxes of http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/#selection-87.13307-87.14692 and produce a 100%-algebraic statement of the entire key inflater.
17:35 * diana_coman will certainly read
17:36 asciilifeform if all (a0..a31, b0..b31, ...) appear in the expansion, then serpent aint actually braindamaged in the sense originally contemplated by asciilifeform .
↖
17:36 diana_coman aha; let's see
17:36 asciilifeform ( then we can say it is only brainamaged in the sense all sboxisms are )
17:42 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
~ 2 hours 3 minutes ~
19:45 mod6 Alright folks, my node is back up. And have re-added my list to the advertised republican nodes.
19:45 mod6 *my node to the list of
19:50 asciilifeform congrats mod6
~ 22 minutes ~
20:12 mircea_popescu meanwhile in other pantsuit lulz, the emerging convention is to call trump "drumpf". because, see, if someone does, then the repressed awkwardsuckers in the audience know it's SAFE!!!
20:12 asciilifeform lol emerging, kako was doin' it in '16
20:12 mircea_popescu in-group signalling, obviously someone not in-group would not say "drumpf" just like that.
↖
20:13 asciilifeform ( for all i know, he devised it )
20:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform eh, for every eventual hot topic item there's 5k groups-of-friends who think they invented it.
20:13 asciilifeform lolyes
20:13 asciilifeform but funnily enuff that was the only place i ever saw it, prior to mircea_popescu's mention
20:14 mircea_popescu i'm not saying the pantsuit's creative or anything. i'm just amused at how fucking awkward they can get, srsly, need special words for things that only other similar idiots would be using so as not to risk conversation with someone not similarly fucktarded ?
20:15 mircea_popescu it's exactly like an imaginary situation where the math flunkies agree to call exponentiation "expies", strictly for the reason that this way, if anyone ever says "expies" they can SAFELY (!!!!! important point here !!!!) go into a "omfg how about those expies they're so incomprehensible!!!" routine.
20:15 BingoBoingo Eh, the drumpf thing was a John Oliver cancer. The reason has been resurrected now is the NPC meme people are using it to mock the anti trumpers. It's all part of dismissing pantsuit complaints as "Orange Man Bad"
20:15 mircea_popescu the "safety" being, of course, little expectation to run into a "wtf are you on about, you just multiply, what's to understand".
20:16 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo right, which is the point : minority group is opressed and wanks accordingly.
20:16 BingoBoingo Yup, cucked by their own old wank
20:16 mircea_popescu "nobody understands us" and "our very existence is threatened, inasmuch as it entirely consists of... our inability to handle broad disinterest wrt our dysfunction".
20:17 mircea_popescu i suppose the only moral being... "opressed groups are opressed for a fucking reason".
20:19 mod6 Can anyone confirm that 37.59.43.190 and 199.204.187.186 nodes are down?
20:20 asciilifeform mod6: confirmed dead
20:20 mod6 Thanks. Removed from list.
20:22 asciilifeform meanwhile, asciilifeform has sumthing vehehehery speshul, but aint gonna pons&fleischmann it...
20:22 mod6 !
20:22 asciilifeform errybody luvvs surprised tho.
20:22 asciilifeform *surprises
20:23 mod6 not all of us XD
20:23 asciilifeform lol
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
21:32 mod6 Does anyone know if the current eucrypt tree uses keccak hashes in its vpatches?
21:36 mod6 Ok, nevermind, they don't seem to be. But I just simply pressed the genesis and it barfed on a README file:
21:37 mod6 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/z10un/?raw=true
21:37 mod6 Can anyone else confirm? Maybe I did something wrong or have the wrong file?
21:38 mod6 diana_coman's signature seems to match, as the genesis gets loaded into the flow just fine...
21:38 mod6 here's my sha512 of the eucrypt_genesis.vpatch: sha512sum patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch
21:38 mod6 671a59e988d62f0c262ff9a1851b44c243d60cb7ee21b8c6f8c64338461eb9b654f002bebed0e162a5631ce5482d584e8bd5964405204258bcb9347345c66f5c patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch
21:41 mod6 no huge worries, was just getting prepped to start looking at keccak, and to see if there is a stand-alone binary for keccak
21:52 mircea_popescu yes the current eucrypt tree uses keccak
~ 29 minutes ~
22:22 deedbot http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2645 << Loper OS - Serpent Ciphers Key Schedule in Algebraic Form: with Reduction.
22:23 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/serpent/serpent_with_reduction.txt << for the impatient.
22:24 asciilifeform folx with their 3rd eye open, can prolly see where this is going.
22:24 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
22:25 mod6 mircea_popescu: ah, thanks. interesting that the pressed READMEs before it didn't choke.
~ 16 minutes ~
22:41 mod6 oh, that's right, the patch is pressed, ~then~ each of the files touched is hashed & verified. makes sense now.
~ 24 minutes ~
23:05 asciilifeform spoiler : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867822 is mistake
23:05 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 21:36 asciilifeform: if all (a0..a31, b0..b31, ...) appear in the expansion, then serpent aint actually braindamaged in the sense originally contemplated by asciilifeform .
23:06 asciilifeform lessee if mircea_popescu or diana_coman beat me to the pill, i'ma not spoil the exact algo just yet.
~ 15 minutes ~
23:21 phf mod6: just fyi i was able to press eucrypt using v.pl by patching it to use vtools's `ksum' for hashing instead of sha512sum and `vpatch' for pressing instead of gnu. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PZ4hX/?raw=true
↖
23:24 phf the hash verification is not really necessary, since vpatch does it already, but above changes are drop in (could e.g. switch between vtools and legacy with a flag)
23:27 mod6 phf: heeey, thanks!
23:35 deedbot http://bimbo.club/?p=71 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/25/2018
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