Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-11-04 | 2018-11-06 → ↓
00:01 mircea_popescu well, i'd say i'm edified.
00:02 mircea_popescu i still think you should http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869171 as a parting shot ; not because i expect anything besides the "meet mr al-schmukwari at 8am", but because why not let the remnant of usg.blue congratulate itself on "succeeding" ? let some schmuck "earn" a bonus, what's it to you or me.
00:02 a111 Logged on 2018-11-03 22:38 mircea_popescu: Mocky so i guess next step is make an appointment with their minister of technology, industry, or whatever the fuck, explain to the secretarial overseer you end up seeing that the republic is in principle willing to do some tech transfer help them become a real country, exchange confused nods and handshakes and set the bozo bit on the ball of faux carpeting yarn pretending to be a country ?
00:03 Mocky what do you mean by tech transfer?
00:04 Mocky like your computers are shitty but you could remedy that?
~ 40 minutes ~
00:44 mircea_popescu Mocky like you could build a chip foundry we man and train. the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865898 item
00:44 a111 Logged on 2018-10-25 15:44 mircea_popescu: now, a 4096 bit native fpga, specifically for rsa-ing and rsa-likes-ing, THAT might be very useful, because there the s-o-d item is major win.
00:45 Mocky ok
00:45 mircea_popescu why don't they fab chips anyway ? got plenty of sand yes ?
00:45 mircea_popescu what, the filipino/indonesians/etc are better in the brain or what ?
00:46 mircea_popescu do you understand what the item in question is, given as example ? would like likbez ?
00:51 Mocky I think I understand but the more examples the better
00:51 mircea_popescu examples ?
00:51 mircea_popescu tell me, what's a bus ?
00:52 Mocky a data pathway
00:52 mircea_popescu that's no answer.
00:52 mircea_popescu how do you distinguish a bus from a cat5 cable ?
00:52 Mocky it's on a board, between chips
00:53 mircea_popescu your definitions are terrible.
00:53 mircea_popescu there's a bus in the basement of the building you're now, for electricity.
00:55 mircea_popescu https://www.caplinq.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/image054.jpg < item
00:55 Mocky ok
00:57 mircea_popescu a direct line is a bus, see. if you switch it's a switched line, if you don't switch it's a bus line. if you packet it's "a data pathway".
00:57 mircea_popescu does this resonate with any familiarity in ye olde phracking and telco or nothing there to resonate with ?
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00:58 Mocky yes it does
00:58 mircea_popescu cool. now what's a register ?
00:59 Mocky a named local storage location
01:00 mircea_popescu not at all.
01:00 mircea_popescu a register is the processor byte.
01:01 mircea_popescu do you see why its width would beneifically match the bus width ?
01:02 Mocky operands have to be fetched and results stored along the bus before and after each processor op
01:02 mircea_popescu well no, if they are different witdths you have to... switch
01:03 mircea_popescu the less switrches the cheaper, faster, better etc.
01:03 mircea_popescu right ?
01:04 Mocky i'm trying to see it
01:04 mircea_popescu if your bus pipes in stuff at 32 bits/cycle and your registers are 64 bits, you have to distinguish two kinds of cycles.
01:04 mircea_popescu if instead registers are 16 bits, you have to distinguish two kinds of registers.
01:05 Mocky like a left and right register?
01:06 mircea_popescu or up and down or we
01:06 Mocky ok
01:06 mircea_popescu 1st and 2nd portions of a full cycle, 1st and 2nd portions of a full register etc.
01:06 Mocky i see it
01:06 mircea_popescu what ELSE would the register width beneficially match ?
01:07 Mocky the operand size for cpu instructions
01:07 mircea_popescu not at all.
01:07 mircea_popescu that's a list, you don't care.
01:08 mircea_popescu if you need 5 or 56 instructions makes 0 diff.
01:08 mircea_popescu oh oh, wait, maybe i misread. "the operand", wtf does that mean here ?
01:08 Mocky the unit size of memory addresses
01:08 mircea_popescu why ?
01:09 Mocky same thing on the other end of the bus
01:09 mircea_popescu a yeah, that's right. you mewan ~the actual~ byte size of the data. yes ? its native size ?
01:11 Mocky if a fetch from memory grabs 32 bits, and the data is 32 bits on the memory side and the register side then you don't need the switch
01:11 mircea_popescu nah, that's not it. data, what your processor will work with, also has a NATIVE byte.
01:12 mircea_popescu i know thios is unlikely a notion, because the crud of voip or divx or w/e could seemingly have any bytness. however think ... displays have 32 bit color byteness... and
01:12 Mocky oh, that's what i meant by operand size, the unit the processor is woking with
01:12 mircea_popescu importantly... what's the byteness of rsa ?
01:13 Mocky I don't know rsa maths well enough to say
01:14 mircea_popescu well, we use 4096 bit keys, therefore as asciilifeform well points out, the native byte of rsa is 8192.
01:14 mircea_popescu now, what's commercial processors bus and register width ?
01:15 Mocky 64 bit bus and iirc 32 bit registers, typically
01:15 mircea_popescu right-o.
01:15 mircea_popescu and so in order to rsa on a commercial processor, you gotta do a mountain of switching
01:15 Mocky right
01:15 mircea_popescu which, because of the nature of crypto ops in the first pace, is very fucking finnicky... switching can leak data.
01:16 mircea_popescu hence the whole effort in ffa, which is nothing else and nothing besides a switching harness for 64 bit cpu so it doesn't leak data while switching it for a 8192 native byte.
01:16 mircea_popescu now, do you see how these magic numbers are nothing else, and if producer wants he can make 19, 4435 or whatever bus and register cpus FOR THE SAME COST ?
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01:17 Mocky well power of 2 values i see
01:17 mircea_popescu right. now, do you see how data-native byteness processor made on 1995s tech would beat the shit off inconveniently byted poroessor made yesterday, for the specific application in question ?
01:18 Mocky i do
01:18 mircea_popescu why does there not exist a rsa-sized specialist processor widely available now ?
01:19 Mocky i can't think of a good why not
01:19 mircea_popescu the answer you're looking for is "because confederacy of dunces".
01:20 mircea_popescu now... why is qatar having political problems atm ?
01:21 Mocky nominally because neighbors claim 'allowed terrorist donations' but i don't know the actual why
01:22 mircea_popescu also because confederacy of dunces, perhaps ? the EXACT SAME usg.blue dunces, actually ?
01:22 mircea_popescu do you see why the man besieged by rats and the horse besieged by rats may perhaps make what's called "a couple made in heaven" ?
01:22 Mocky yes
01:22 mircea_popescu now, what's an asic ?
01:23 Mocky hardware baked with a specific algo, not generall purpose
01:23 mircea_popescu keks
01:23 mircea_popescu let's just say it's playdo cpu, right ? you can cut here and there and get various basic units working together.
01:24 mircea_popescu now, perhaps this also could be made in such a way as to data byteness ?
01:24 mircea_popescu point being, there's a LOT they could do to be useful, first of all to themselves. dja see it ?
01:24 Mocky yes
01:24 mircea_popescu so that's the angle.
01:25 mircea_popescu i clearly recall ceausescu's lament back in the 70s, "they sell us today's tech at high prices, because they have tomorrow's lined up. but what can we do?"
01:25 mircea_popescu this is their one shot to buy tomorrow's. whether they have the sense... ceausescu never had the chance.
01:27 Mocky i see it
01:32 mircea_popescu well congrats on surviving half hour of powerhosing. few do.
01:34 Mocky the mp hot seat
~ 3 hours 21 minutes ~
04:56 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869273 - a config file seems the better choice, yes; I'll add it to the list to move the keys to a config file and update the tests to read from config file; that should actually meet asciilifeform's requirements too since the code will not contain the >80cols lines (although the config files will, of course)
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04:56 a111 Logged on 2018-11-04 23:10 mircea_popescu: diana_coman imo such items belong in a config file then. though he prolly wants the ~config~ file to also be "human readable" by which he means hard-paged at 80 cols like for idiots. because there's no such thing as a terminal, nor user settings, and i gotta format my text in a way that's aware of his dumb terminal. and he thinks this acceptable, somehow, that at the time i write i must bear in mind how he'll later read.
05:09 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869406 -> the way I read this was that arab did not consider that as appointment, more like audience granted -perhaps, if allah finds time for it - to lowlife sort of thing
05:09 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 04:47 mircea_popescu: http://mocky.org/Qatar-Financial-Center/ <<< top fucking keks. really, arab don't keep appointment ?! this is some next level shit, never heard of it b4.
~ 3 hours 53 minutes ~
09:03 mircea_popescu diana_coman seems the reasonable available goat-and-cabbage pacifier
09:06 * asciilifeform watched in horror as the cabbage ate teh wolf, last time he played w+g+c
09:06 diana_coman ahahhaha, that's a lousy wolf
09:06 asciilifeform can't always source grade a+ wolf...
09:07 mircea_popescu was this a racoon ?
09:07 asciilifeform nah ( my pest control algo for those actually, believe or not , worked, 8 down and none seen lately )
09:08 mircea_popescu did you shoot them or what was it ?
09:08 asciilifeform rather, was a gnarly mathe-deadend.
09:09 mircea_popescu speaking of cabbage-ate-wolf, yest @bbq had juvenile duck stare down the shit out of adult pitbulls.
09:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: shot with , roughly, the item from conan doyle's 'the empty house'
09:09 mircea_popescu cuz they're all shy and "waht the FUCK is this then" and the duck's like FUCK YOU MY GRANNY WAS A VELOCIRAPTOR!
09:10 asciilifeform lol
09:10 diana_coman mircea_popescu, that sounds close to "and then goat ate the wolf"
09:10 mircea_popescu i guess at that...
09:11 mircea_popescu aaand in other news of only apparent alf interest, i'm in talks with... a chick from moscow.
09:11 mircea_popescu moscow IDAHO. this is a thing now, fucking paris, texas wan't good enough for these people. they gotta have a moscow also.
09:11 asciilifeform lol!!
09:11 asciilifeform they have a rome in illinois, a odessa in texas, etc so wainot
09:12 diana_coman lol, I never quite understood wtf it is with US that they can't even come up with new names for places or what
09:12 mircea_popescu and if they try to "fucker, get your own names" it's mittikittegoongamooga or w/e the fuck the canadians call things
09:12 asciilifeform at least the had the sense to make newyork prefixed
09:12 diana_coman wounded knee!
09:12 asciilifeform rather than york
09:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's a york.
09:12 asciilifeform is there, i missed
09:13 asciilifeform but not surprising. i think they hashcollided whole planet at this point.
09:13 mircea_popescu https://www.yorkcity.org/
09:13 asciilifeform ha.
09:16 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869478 << 1 nitpick -- not quite same cost, the size of the adder, barrel shifter, and esp. -- multer, grow with the cube of the reg bitness
09:16 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 06:16 mircea_popescu: now, do you see how these magic numbers are nothing else, and if producer wants he can make 19, 4435 or whatever bus and register cpus FOR THE SAME COST ?
09:16 mircea_popescu same cost as in, fixed cost of the machinery making them
09:17 asciilifeform my orig observation was that this is a less stupid use of die space than e.g tlb cache and the other liquishit x86 is packed with 'so win10 faster'
09:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for so long as you can fit in $process -- yes entirely same
09:18 mircea_popescu right. and his bitness doesn't enter into it, though i didn't pick it up. literally, prime-count bus same cost.
09:18 mircea_popescu and for that matter crt bitness is 24 not 32, but apparently nobody cared enough to insist on the exact magic number
09:18 mircea_popescu and so on.
09:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: depending how you cut it, varies . e.g. my 'eizo' has a 'byteness' of 14 bits ( per channel )
09:20 asciilifeform for a 'wordness of' 42
09:20 mircea_popescu right.
09:21 mircea_popescu anyways, more in the general, there's a LOT of merit to dennis hopper's monologue in http://trilema.com/2013/true-romance-tarantino-cut/ : "he didn't think to tell me... and i didn't think to ask".
09:21 mircea_popescu MOST of issues in civilised (which strictly means white) world are resolved by that method.
09:28 mircea_popescu meanwhile in weblulz, https://findcrypto.net/bitcoin/bitcoin-ever-wondered-what-the-hell-was-wrong-with-that-max-keiser-guy-this-pretty-much-explains-it/
09:28 mircea_popescu because what could be better than starting one of these 2008-style spamsites, in 2018 ?
09:28 mircea_popescu NICHE!!!
09:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i get pingbacks from these nonstop. tho more often they're shannonized 'miner' sites
09:38 mircea_popescu aha.
~ 15 minutes ~
09:54 mircea_popescu incidentally, apropos de nothing : Jean van Heijenoort is an interesting character, not because of his youthful association with one of the inconsequential marx-zigglers burlesque and slapstick acts of the early 20th century, but because of his later life as a historian of what could only properly be called "the end of nations as an intellectual construct".
09:54 mircea_popescu his "source book" is practically speaking the last time one had to collect and translate previously uncollected and untranslated worldbreakers.
10:00 asciilifeform apropos of upstack -- last wk asciilifeform did the ~yearly dig re 'does anyone actually sell fpga big enuff to demo 8192b-arithmetizer inside, fully unrolled' and turns out that yes (as of 6mo ago)
10:00 asciilifeform ( naturally it's the big-fpga monopolist, xilinx . but it's there. )
10:01 asciilifeform they offer a half-mil. LUT thing. (can fit, e.g., orig 'pentium', say.)
10:01 Mocky how much?
10:02 asciilifeform Mocky: coupla thou. usd
10:02 asciilifeform afaik they're ~only~ used for asic dev, hence the 'we charge weight in diamonds'
10:03 asciilifeform but they're actually in my parts houses' catalogues.
10:03 Mocky speaking of weight in diamnonds, I find the guy I should be talking to here: Hassan Al-Sayed
10:03 Mocky Assistant Undersecretary, Information Technology
10:04 asciilifeform Mocky: sounds like exactly what mircea_popescu was speaking of. see if allah wills that he shows up to his desk..
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10:05 Mocky went down to the ministry of transportation and communitications today to book an appointment. they told me he wasn't at that building but the other ministry building
10:05 asciilifeform 'your princess is in another castle'(tm)(r) eh
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10:05 Mocky at the other building, they told me he's at commercial bank plaza (home of servcorp coworks)
10:06 Mocky i didn't ahve time to make it over there before ministry closes at 2pm, sigh
10:07 Mocky i'm also skeptical that he's there. i was told by 8 20-something arabs lounging around the lobby desk bored. they had to call over the 9th who was the only one who could speak broken english
10:07 Mocky felt like "yeah he's a mile down the road, can't miss it"
10:07 Mocky I expect to work the phones to find this guy
10:09 Mocky anyway, i'm off to this DAO / blockchain meetup. couldnt' scare up a camera crew so I guess i'll have to film myself
10:13 mircea_popescu not the same thing ~at all~ however. for one thing, it comes with the xilinx shitstack. for the other, it's a sack large enough to contain a car. we're talking about the actual car.
10:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869566 << top fucking keks over here.
10:14 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 15:05 asciilifeform: 'your princess is in another castle'(tm)(r) eh
10:15 mircea_popescu Mocky how are you enjoying the emissary extraordinary and plenipotentiary gig btw ?
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~ 23 minutes ~
10:38 mod6 mornin'
10:40 mod6 !Q later tell jurov http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869263
10:40 a111 Logged on 2018-11-04 21:49 mod6: jurov: go ahead and Xcancel your auction #1005, and plz to bid on mine (#1006)
~ 24 minutes ~
11:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didn't say it was 'same thing', yes it comes with the grandfather of all shitstacks (20+GB of liquishit) . it's for simulating designs, not for deploying ( why wouldja deploy anyffing on such a thing, it makes cluster of pc look vehehery cheap and 'opensores'y by comparison )
11:05 mircea_popescu right.
11:07 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=797 << ancient asciilifeform article series re: a much older device of this type.
11:11 asciilifeform ( was: 'XC5VLX50' , 7.2k 'slices' x 4 LUTs (& 4 flipflops) ea., net 28800 LUTs & equal # of flipflops. )
11:12 asciilifeform approx 4x the logic carpet of the fattest ice40, for comparison.
11:15 asciilifeform not directly comparable, tho, 'virtex' also had various heterogeneous parts, e.g. cascadable shift registers, adders, etc. inside.
11:17 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/11/india-rolls-out-nuclear-ballistic-missile-submarine/ << Qntra - India Rolls Out Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine
11:17 asciilifeform ( for 'real-life' comparison -- the miniature XC9572XL item in http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis#selection-297.16-297.24 , gives 72 LUTs and nuffin else , of which FG uses all but 1 )
11:19 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i distinctly recall that thing being advertised in early 2000s
11:20 asciilifeform the boat, i mean
11:20 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Apparently they have been bumping their heads against various issues for 30+ years trying not to Argentina themselves
11:20 BingoBoingo But (current year) is the year it floats
11:23 mircea_popescu or the year they really really need its posture as a float be credible, seeing how they also want a chunk of china's sea.
11:26 mircea_popescu in other news, i've been sitting here all morning pondering whether inuit fucker franz boas or mme blavatsky dewey truly deserves the "intellectual father of pantsuit" title.
11:27 mircea_popescu amusingly enough, there's actually two distinguishable pantsuit trends to this day, a mystagogical cvasi-elitism spawned from boas and a mechanicistic mammie-ism visibly spawned off dewey.
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11:28 BingoBoingo I am inclined to lean toward Dewey cribbing from the pop culture hegelians. Not a father so much as the theiving sad sack from the "I made this" meme series
11:28 mircea_popescu (alf's "robohitler" mostly exists as alf's own mind's reinterpretation of the boas-pantsuit ; cargo cultish lulz (say in the "artificial intelligence" vein to pick but one of many examples) usually come from the dewey-pantsuit.)
11:29 BingoBoingo Dewey's mammie-ism is just distilling the pop culture hegelians who cam before him
11:29 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo just about, yeah!
11:29 mircea_popescu well yes, nobody's seriously contemplating the "ummim an' thurimm" of ye olde paris-moscow-rome-etcetera actually DOING anything. they're just whatever the subliterate peasantry remembers from the old world almanacs.
11:30 * BingoBoingo did do two year of graduate study at SIU when their department still had the old house full of photocopies they dubbed "The Center For Dewey Studies"
11:33 BingoBoingo The transition to library school where Dewey mean a completely different person lead to some confusion in conversations, especially in Missouri where Truman defeated yet another different Dewey
11:34 mircea_popescu haha i bet.
11:34 mircea_popescu anyway, it's fucking lulzy to me how the dumb shit always comes back to "psychic unity of mankind" nonsense.
11:35 mircea_popescu no fucker, WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME ONE.
11:35 mircea_popescu jesus christ how hard is it to not be three years old anymore already.
11:40 mircea_popescu ah, speaking of young uns / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869435 : hey Mocky, did http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863573 coallesce into something like "oh, herder" ? or did it come entirely outta left field ?
11:40 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 05:57 mircea_popescu: does this resonate with any familiarity in ye olde phracking and telco or nothing there to resonate with ?
11:40 a111 Logged on 2018-10-18 18:51 mircea_popescu: Mocky i actually distinguish between smarts (the reductive ability, that powers "i suspect there's no such thing as intelligence", and typified perhaps best by d. kyon) and "intelligence" (the constructive ability, that powers "more loc, more tech, more future", and typified perhaps best by "fm-2030" ).
11:42 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> anyway, it's fucking lulzy to me how the dumb shit always comes back to "psychic unity of mankind" nonsense. << Well, in this case I don't see how Hegel isn't the daddy
11:42 mircea_popescu cuz any 3yo is the same exact daddy of THAT.
11:43 BingoBoingo Let's call up Maury and get that daytime tv paternity testing
11:43 mircea_popescu kek
11:46 BingoBoingo Anyways, suppose someone gets a time machine and kills baby Hegel. If Marx is still cribbing from someone in "the conversation" does he go to Fichte instead? Does drunk Steve Bannon arrive a century and a half too soon?
11:51 BingoBoingo And in local news... the coming months will determine which one of these two the transcendental Spirit of Great Again will bless https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/llego-sartori-y-se-hizo-el-misterioso-sobre-su-posible-candidatura-les-prometo-que-van-a-estar-al-tanto--201811513835 https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/partido-de-la-gente-el-juvenil-de-la-politica-que-no-termina-de-afianzarse-20181155038
~ 28 minutes ~
12:19 asciilifeform in other noose, yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867757 found : >>> 209.239.121.83
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12:19 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 18:15 asciilifeform: in unrelated minor lulz, discovered yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865517 : 213.148.193.153
12:20 asciilifeform this makes for: 5 known specimens
~ 27 minutes ~
12:48 jurov !Xcancel 1005
12:48 auctionbot Sell order # 1005 was cancelled by jurov
12:48 mod6 nice, thanks jurov
12:48 mod6 asciilifeform: hmm, interesting
12:48 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869503 -> and done; asciilifeform and anyone else requiring strictly 80 cols - I've updated the post with a .vpatch to read the keys from file and thus keep them out of the fully-80-cols-now code itself: http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/04/smg-comms-chapter-6-packing-and-unpacking-rsa/#selection-157.0-159.591
12:48 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 09:56 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869273 - a config file seems the better choice, yes; I'll add it to the list to move the keys to a config file and update the tests to read from config file; that should actually meet asciilifeform's requirements too since the code will not contain the >80cols lines (although the config files will, of course)
12:49 asciilifeform neato, ty diana_coman
12:49 jurov !Xbid 1006 .31bn
12:49 auctionbot Buy order # 1006: 2k wFF Heard: .31bn from jurov. Ending: 2018-11-08 13:48:41.550007 UTC (79 hours 58 mins)
12:51 mod6 o7
~ 19 minutes ~
13:10 Mocky http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869576 >> I like it ok. I see now that I artificially capped my quality of life here by getting too-cheap accommodations. And that got amplified by not having power and internet anywhere else.
13:10 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 15:15 mircea_popescu: Mocky how are you enjoying the emissary extraordinary and plenipotentiary gig btw ?
13:14 Mocky just got back from blockchain event. I told them their ideas of humanity 3.0 governed by blockchain smart contracts was a delusion. And then critcized both the ethereum-roll-backers and the ethereum-continue-with-broken-shit
13:15 Mocky my poor self video skills yielded only my chin basically!
13:17 Mocky but jokes on me, nobody got ruffled feathers because they weren't advocating daos, just raising awareness! starting the conversation! they agreed with me!
13:20 BingoBoingo lol
13:22 Mocky guy said blockchain was gonna fix fake news, it told him his interpretation of the "DAO hack and ether theft" was the fake news
13:23 Mocky but when I watch it back I see that I softened my criticisms a lot
~ 33 minutes ~
13:56 asciilifeform * amstan_ is now known as amstan << lol! that d00d is still here, i can't properly picture why
13:56 asciilifeform ( prolly is a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869074 )
13:56 a111 Logged on 2018-11-03 15:04 mircea_popescu: there he sits, remote in hand, "checking to see if there's anything interesting on the tv". are we ready to entertain him yet ? or does he come back later ?
14:08 BingoBoingo <Mocky> but jokes on me, nobody got ruffled feathers because they weren't advocating daos, just raising awareness! starting the conversation! they agreed with me! << It's what orcs do. How much hashish do you estimate the other attendees ate prior to showing up?
14:15 Mocky it was half white dudes in suits with british accents who looked pretty straight laced
14:15 BingoBoingo So, quite a bit
~ 50 minutes ~
15:06 mircea_popescu Mocky somewhat not surprised. orcs generally take such positions
15:06 mircea_popescu and nothing wrong with diplomat being diplomatic.
~ 32 minutes ~
15:38 bvt hello. i had to delay making a genesis of base64 lib, will try to finish tomorrow.
15:39 bvt found and unexpected problem that specialization of Ada.Sequential_IO conflicts with Restriction(No_Unchecked_Access) in the test applications.
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15:39 bvt i had a look in the .ali file, where presumably list of dependencies for a compiled .adb file is stored, but grep would find nothing in the dependencies
15:39 bvt in the end, just disabled the restriction.
15:46 asciilifeform bvt: which gnat are you using ? i've never observed any such thing ( and i use the same restriction, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch11_tuning_and_api/tree/ffa/libffa/restrict.adc#L76 , ~with~ sequential i/o, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch11_tuning_and_api/tree/ffa/ffacalc/ffa_rng.adb#L49 )
15:57 bvt i used gnat 2017. will test ffa rng code and see if it works out.
15:57 diana_coman I just checked and I can confirm too: that restriction is fine here while using Ada.Sequential_IO
15:58 diana_coman bvt, is that adacore's gnat?
15:59 bvt that is gnat 2017 with ave1's patches (i.e. musltronic)
16:00 bvt but yes, it is adacore -- not the default sad gcc implementation
16:01 diana_coman hm, weird; now I'm really curious if you get the same complaint with asciilifeform's ffa (or my smg comms for that matter)
16:10 bvt just tested ffa-8 where rng was introduced -- it works fine. would be trying to understand what is wrong with my code, then
16:17 mircea_popescu bvt what is the actual underlying that ended up summarized as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869645 ?
16:17 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 20:39 bvt: found and unexpected problem that specialization of Ada.Sequential_IO conflicts with Restriction(No_Unchecked_Access) in the test applications.
16:22 bvt i have structured the base64 tree as a directory with a library and example applications; only library is supposed to be compiled with restrictions, but some restrictions propagate to applications as well
16:27 bvt No_Unchecked_Access is such restriction; i have tested a dummy application that does nothing but import and instantiate/specialize Ada.Sequential_IO instance for the datatype from base64 library. test application fails to compile, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Vwno8/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qgs7E/?raw=true
16:28 mircea_popescu hm
16:34 bvt to clarify: base64 lib and applications are two separate gprbuild projects, -gnatec=base64/restrict.adc flag is only in the library project
~ 38 minutes ~
17:12 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869615 << aaand anothr, 99.242.113.183
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17:12 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 17:19 asciilifeform: in other noose, yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867757 found : >>> 209.239.121.83
17:21 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/11/onboard-ssd-crypto-demonstrated-to-be-homeopathic-on-numerous-drives/ << Qntra - Onboard SSD Crypto Demonstrated To Be Homeopathic On Numerous Drives
17:25 asciilifeform bahahaha
17:26 BingoBoingo Ticking marketing checkboxes in sequence is its own reward
~ 19 minutes ~
17:45 asciilifeform there are exactly 0 genuine-crypto hdd on heathen market, you can take this to the bank.
17:46 asciilifeform ( there's an unofficial fatwa against it, or sumthing )
17:46 asciilifeform ( a la http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-28#1866864 )
17:46 a111 Logged on 2018-10-28 05:02 mircea_popescu: i have 0 expectation it will do anythingf besides create a lot of idle wank in "law enforcement" circles.
17:47 bvt ok, i have figured out one solution to the problem (at least on gnat 2017): can't have Ada.Sequential_IO specialization in the GPR_Project'Main file
17:47 bvt when i moved all ada.S_IO usage to a separate package/file, everything worked fine
17:48 bvt otoh, when i added a single line 'package SIO is new Ada.Sequential_IO(Positive);' to ffa_calc.adb, it errored out during the compilation in the same way
17:48 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> there are exactly 0 genuine-crypto hdd on heathen market, you can take this to the bank. << It's the assumption so safe it's not worth verifying unless your marginal University is trolling for headlines
17:49 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: loox like they actually reversed some fw shitware, godly work
17:49 asciilifeform ( of course it will be 'patched' and Officially Cured and Stop Asking Questions, Terrorist etc. shortly )
17:50 BingoBoingo Well, hopefully they now that they have this niche that gets them headlines where they would otherwise have none, they keep pursuing it
17:51 BingoBoingo In other heathen headlines: Apparently Llamas (as opposed to alpacas) might have the proteins necessary for a universal flu vaccine
17:52 asciilifeform bvt: pretty weird. sounds like you uncovered some bugolade in the spirit of the earlier http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866266 .
17:52 a111 Logged on 2018-10-26 02:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics )
17:53 asciilifeform ( how gnat goes about enforcing the various restrictions, is largely black art at this point, the most i can say is that it seems to 'fail deadly', i.e. ultra-conservatively banhammers yer entire proggy if it fails to satisfy various obscure this-and-not-that conditions )
17:53 mircea_popescu not at all clear to me wth is going on with that io stuff.
17:54 asciilifeform really calls for a deep dig into the sores.
17:55 asciilifeform overall pattern is frequently 'aha, you banned this ? goodluck using the standard lib nao, where we used it 9000 times'. saw this with e.g. the secondary stack liquishit.
17:57 BingoBoingo For want of a LISP machine... we are on track for a fascist superMIPs with bignum coprocessor before the end of Trump's second term.
17:57 asciilifeform i also suspect that my use of static linkage exposed buncha implementation strange
17:57 asciilifeform ( who outside of us is linking statically... )
17:57 bvt myeah, i solved it by maximally recreating the ffa project structure, so can't say i did anything informed by the 'first principles' there.
17:58 asciilifeform bvt: it's structured the way it is, for a reason
17:58 * asciilifeform did quite a bit of gnat sores archaeology dig
18:00 bvt so far i had a look only in the runtime, but never looked into the gcc part
18:02 asciilifeform bvt: i structured it so that the moar-restriction-y stuff ends up in static libs that get linked ~into~ the less-restrictiony demolade ( rather than vice-versa ), and so that the lib is statically linkable to begin with
18:02 asciilifeform this pattern is not really escapable if yer using the restrictions
18:03 asciilifeform some language features seem to break the 'encapsulability' , e.g. finalization
18:03 asciilifeform i dun have a pill for this yet
18:03 asciilifeform ( it's not a wholly useless thing, i dun have it in current ffa but my 1st draft used it to wipe all data on the stack erry time it goes out of scope )
18:04 asciilifeform current ffa relies on the user/caller to wipe
18:05 asciilifeform the standard, btw, does not say any such thing as 'using finalization breaks staticity', it seems to be 100% gnat breakage rather than 'standard forbids'
18:05 asciilifeform ( for old c/cpp dogs : 'finalization' is analogous to 'destructor' )
18:07 bvt i dunno if gnat people even tried to implement finalization for static libs/bins. i guess cpp supports destructors in statically linked code?
18:07 asciilifeform bvt: of course it does, trb is 100% static-linked and has plenty
18:08 asciilifeform gnat is entirely ok with finalization in lib so long as the finalized type aint exported
↖
18:08 asciilifeform but thus far seems to break if it is
18:08 asciilifeform ( which is why my mmap thing aint posted yet )
18:09 asciilifeform the 1 workaround i've found is to make the lib 100% generic 'all the way down', but it's ugly imho
18:10 asciilifeform ( what 'genericism' does in ada, is to force the compiler to rebuild a copy of the lib for erry time the exported type is invoked in the caller. at which point may as well tell user to drop the src into his, rather than link the lib, the effect is the same )
18:10 asciilifeform the latter suxx because it infects the caller with the full pragma-restrictiveness of the lib.
18:10 asciilifeform ( whereas troo static linkage does not )
18:11 asciilifeform it isn't actually practical, as i currently understand, to build a large, nontrivial proggy with all of the restrict pragmas switched on.
18:12 asciilifeform hence 'make this linkable' dances.
18:13 asciilifeform the standard specifically promises that restrictions can be applied to narrow sections of coad. therefore gotta be made to work!
18:13 asciilifeform i.e. when gnat fails to deliver this, it is properly speaking a gnat bug.
18:14 bvt what i have fished out trying to solve the problem is that only a subset of restrictions should be contagious
18:14 asciilifeform my aim is to eventually start patching these, rather than cranking out oddball workarounds.
18:14 bvt i.e. https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_rm-docs/html/gnat_rm/gnat_rm/standard_and_implementation_defined_restrictions.html#partition-wide-restrictions
18:16 bvt of course, > 3/4 of all restrictions are contagious, so you are right
18:16 asciilifeform just about all the interesting ones, are, aha
18:17 asciilifeform fwiw i've massaged ffa to the point where it's fully static and the problem dun affect it any. but some of my other stuff (mmap) is hobbled by it.
18:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869702 << this sounds entirely like hack, in the proper sense of term -- someone got lazies attack and "nobody would think to check here".
18:18 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 23:08 asciilifeform: gnat is entirely ok with finalization in lib so long as the finalized type aint exported
18:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's a completely textbook case, aha, of 'we pulled on the duct tape and after 2 tonnes of pull it comes off'
18:25 * asciilifeform brb,meat
~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~
20:00 mircea_popescu speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867613 "inconsequential tracts" : i r wondering now just how many of the ustarded "cultural commentators" (the boas-ian wanna-be elite, say) actually did figure out the whole "white racism" in the us is cheap rent re-usage of ww1 german props.
20:00 a111 Logged on 2018-10-30 13:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867432 << thinking about it, yes i agree the jew-nazi has a more colorful life story. but think about it : his entire's life work, his sum total accomplishment, is being an aide to an obscure publisher of inconsequential tracts. this is exactly danielpbarron 's position, and it ain't much. that florida beauty queen had them beat, for instance, and she had them beat a) in her 20s, while these
20:00 deedbot http://bimbo.club/?p=75 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/29/2018
20:00 mircea_popescu because they quite literally just picked up the "senegalese" bullshit and morel's daily herald nonsense, blew dust off here and there and that's the whole material.
20:06 BingoBoingo Hard to say. The "It's okay to be white" fliers appear to get evergreen press attention any time they pop up which is disappointingly infrequently
20:08 mircea_popescu i meant more ye olde "jews conspire to bring black degeneracy into the holy land"
20:08 mircea_popescu used to be "heart of europe", but obviously ustard never heard of it.
20:10 BingoBoingo Ah, yeah, they don't seem to go back much further than the 1930's
20:10 BingoBoingo They also don't borrow much from the rich French and Russian anti-semetic traditions
20:14 BingoBoingo As far as I can tell they don't dream of Edward's alt-England either
20:25 mircea_popescu nah, it's pretty much all reheated morel.
20:25 mircea_popescu which... gimme a fucking break. for one thing, socialist moron. for the other, i have spare tyres that can write better.
~ 28 minutes ~
20:54 mircea_popescu (perhaps pointing out how "the international women's guild" trying to get a sort of geneva convention going banning 4ever and ever smoking^H^H^H^H i mean rape^H^H^H^H using black soldiers in europe never got anywhere worth a chuckle. they didn't believe women back in the [other] 20s or what was it, helga the rhine rivetteer couldn't do it.)
20:57 mircea_popescu Mass protest meeting organised by the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, the National Federation of Women Workers, the Federation of Women Teachers, the Women's Co-operative Guild, the Association of Women Clerks and Secretaries and the Fabian Women's Group (tbh that was absolutely everyone) to condemn France for the alleged war crimes committed by the Senegalese. If you're there on April 27 '20, make sure to
20:57 mircea_popescu send postcards!
~ 20 minutes ~
21:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there's a something-or-other '-of-women-voters' in usa but afaik it's a straight dnc skin
21:18 mircea_popescu this was england in the 1920s.
21:19 mod6 evenin'
21:19 asciilifeform yea was clear from context
21:19 mod6 !!ledger
21:19 asciilifeform ohai mod6
21:19 mod6 !!sent-invoices
21:19 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/W1vLM/?raw=true
21:19 mod6 how goes alf, mircea_popescu ?
21:19 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BpNSr/?raw=true
21:19 mircea_popescu not bad!
21:20 mod6 Good to hear. Dark and rainy up here. Hope it's better wherever you all are at. :D
21:20 asciilifeform mod6: rereading own ffa , from opening shot to 11
21:20 mod6 asciilifeform: nice. I really need to get to that. I kinda went through a lot of it while you were working on it - but I really wanna sit down and work through each chapter. Got other things on the stack first tho.
21:21 asciilifeform doin' it properly, with chalk & all.
21:21 mod6 Too many things!
21:21 mod6 Yeah, I bought a giant whiteboard just for that purpose.
21:21 asciilifeform mod6: i have an electric chalkboard thingie, but they're just barely usable, imho, need pretty bright light
21:22 mod6 interesting. I would have guessed you for a slate + chalk stick like prof at U.
21:22 mod6 what does the electricity do for ya?
21:22 asciilifeform used to
21:22 asciilifeform what it does is cut the dust.
21:23 mod6 ah, kinda was figuring as much. does it work?
21:23 asciilifeform sorta worx
21:23 asciilifeform can spend the 10bux an' try it yerself
21:23 mod6 just makes your hair stand up on your arms?
21:24 asciilifeform e.g. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076DMWWG9 ( chinesium )
21:24 asciilifeform pretty much a mechanized version of the wax tablets folx used 300yrs ago
21:25 mod6 ah, neat.
21:25 asciilifeform i dunno why nobody's made one that reads black-on-white
21:25 mod6 I would probably use slate + chalk myself if I wasn't so weirdly obsessive about needing to keep the board clean. I'd feel like I'd have to wash it all the time after erasure.
21:26 asciilifeform worst thing, they're ~impossible to keep clean
21:26 mod6 I dunno, I love to start on a clean board when thinking through things. Otherwise my brain feels some how cluttered.
21:26 asciilifeform sorta why i ended up with the electric thing
21:26 asciilifeform it gives this aesthetic
21:26 mod6 *nod* good talk, I gotta step aside and yield the floor. gotta check on these preliminary report numbers.
21:27 asciilifeform ( that, & no dust or sponge etc )
21:27 mod6 werd.
21:30 asciilifeform ( subj, for the innocent , is simply this thing, a sheet of chemical strange that turns green when you push on it with plastic stake 'pencil', and takes a watch battery, so that when you hit red button it turns black again )
21:34 asciilifeform iirc was originally sold by the same folx who baked http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859348 item; but naodays chinese, dime a dozen
21:34 a111 Logged on 2018-10-08 00:12 asciilifeform: phf: incidentally i found that sharp inc makes b&w lcd's that run on 0power when holding picture, and beautiful 100% reflector-powered picture. but their biggest is iirc 4 in. and 336 × 536 .
21:44 BingoBoingo So, during beach walk tonight one of the locals nearly lost a young ~30 pound pit bull
21:51 mircea_popescu maybe he should add one of those whistling attachments to it.
21:52 BingoBoingo Oh he was doing the thing where he let it run off leash on the dogs prohibited beach, whistling it back.
21:53 BingoBoingo But twice it cut aggressive angles as I had to wonder if my foot was going through its head or was I going to have to seperate its head from its body with the box cutter before walking myself to the emergencia
21:53 BingoBoingo or taxi stand
21:56 BingoBoingo Which would have been a shame because it appeared to be a fine energetic young pupper
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