#trilema | 2018-09-09

good morning!

~ 44 minutes ~

12:56

guten morgen mircea_popescu

12:57

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848794 << lolyes, it's pretty warm on the underside, from various expensivespaceheaters

12:57

Logged on 2018-09-09 02:20 mircea_popescu: gotta also take into account his desk is special.

12:59

peltier is potentially very good current source for long-term unattended stations -- unlike photopanel, it isn't afraid of rain, or bird shit, etc. and a long stake into the earth potentially gives coupla of degree temp diff yr round

13:01

( not that it make no diff in ~which direction~ temp diff )

13:01

*note that

13:01

the current gatherer has rectifier .

13:02

it is also much less conspicuous than photopanel ( which is easily seen from the air )

13:05

speaking of bird shit, some bird shat on my balcony

13:05

as a result some crazy ass bug came to suck on it.

13:05

i imagine errything in mircea_popescustan gets coated in quetzal shit in 6months tops

13:06

actually no quetzals here. princopally great kiskadees, colibris and some sort of wren

13:06

prolly worx just as well with these

13:07

( might be interesting to contemplate a power source that runs on guano funnel, but i suspect there is substantial devil in the details )

13:08

haha. i suspect genetically engineered repeater bug a ways off yet.

13:15

http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/mircea_popescu_initiator_concurs_proza_arhiscurta_paul_lica_de_la_roman_sunt_sofer_de_camion_4981_a.mp3 << in other lulz.

13:23

lettuce offer a mn ECus to whoever of the rotaku club that produces the correct notation of that thing. hanbot diana_coman an' spyked are kindly asked to stay out of it!

13:23

(i just mean the my spoken segment, not the whole atrocity)

13:24

*

diana_coman will happily stay out of it

13:36

wats this

13:38

asciilifeform that's me on the radio, like a decade or so ago.

13:39

sounds like 'mst3k'-treatment of the puiu codreanu popthing that asciilifeform heard playing in timis cafes

13:40

https://www.versuri.ro/versuri/puiu-codreanu-sant-copil-de-romanie-_si27.html << subj

13:40

just about ; radio station producer chick hit me for their "guilty pleasures" segment.

13:40

but no, the actual item is "paul lica de la roman", "sunt sofer de camion"

13:40

which is one helluva video.

13:40

'cretinismul intolerabil' >> lel

13:42

btw am i the only one who sees a klezmer flavour in the trad ro jazzy style

13:42

it's not jazzy lol, "manea" is a trad turkish thing.

13:42

i suspected

13:43

you folx even have a zurna, i think

13:43

(what's it called in ro?)

13:43

pro tip : jews ~= gypsies. after five centuries spent on the same caravan roads...

13:43

wellyes

13:44

etymologically goarna but irl caval.

13:45

loox like moar of a flute

13:45

zurna is short , reed-powered thing, think 'snake charmer'

13:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFQXoJCGFGs << subj

13:46

nah. zurna is greek-turkish item, high pressure, parabolic outer lip

13:47

some reason i thought there were a ro variant

13:47

~same thing the vuvuzela came from.

13:47

and clarinet

13:48

well, two! there's one that came from the jenissary music, as a brass instrument (goaran) and there's one that came from the thessaly/macedonian pastoral tradition earlier, as a wooden shepher's whistle (caval)

13:48

euro woodwing tech is 100% turk origin afaik

13:48

hahaha nope.

13:48

hm.

13:48

*

asciilifeform not subj expert

13:49

turkish woodworking tradition is 100% imported from ro/arvnaut/macedonian tradition on the west and the iranian on the east.

13:50

*

asciilifeform prolly doomed to learn tr soon

13:50

all through computer age subnormals derped about with plastics, as a substitute (look baby! it's so colorful! almost like a real computer!)

13:50

all through iron age subnormals derped around with leather

13:50

and all through bronze age, subnormals derped around with wood.

13:51

when rich people had obsydian knife, dorks had bone knife. JUST AS GOOD!

13:51

'iron age' is somewhat broad concept, for a while was 'high tech', sorta like niobium today, used for selected wunderwaffen

13:51

they're all broad concepts, definitely.

13:51

iirc mircea_popescu even had essay re subj

13:51

'wolfangel'

13:52

how long merkel ahs come!

13:52

( there is legend where in late '80s jp purchased an entire steamer full of sov alarm clocks. immediately melted down for niobium etc )

13:52

think about it -- if she hadn't given zee germans zee letter z, what'd they have done!

13:52

lol

13:53

i am starting to suspect civ was a lot more influential than previously realised --a whole generation of morons literally imagine "the nation of africa" was spawned forh by shaka the bahamas.

13:53

'our words are backed with nukes!'(tm)(r)

13:54

avortons that didn't even PLAY civ. spawned by idiots who also did not play it -- but were somehow osmotically influenced by the players ?

13:54

nah i suspect 'common ancestor', the 'linear history' where 'newton sat down to..'

13:54

ah. yeah this is a better theory

13:54

civilopedia!11

13:54

"cheap computer game aiming to mass market will expose in garish tones the idiocy common to all people"

13:54

asciilifeform ikr ?

13:55

*

asciilifeform still has a drum-printed 'civilopedia' in a 3ring somewhere

13:55

predates the other atrocity by a good decade.

13:55

gotta say, i liked civ1. it aint a replacement for learning actual earthling history, tho

13:56

"let's have deeply unqualified nobodies in particular puke some text under a deadline"

13:56

"o hey! this works so well!"

13:56

asciilifeform this is like confessing you like the smell of gasoline. du nhave TO ALSO EAT IT!

13:56

rright

13:57

https://archive.is/F2IT4 << oblig al schwartz

14:01

and yes i liked civ1, liked 'battlezone' also but did not imagine that 'battlezone' teaches irl tank tactic

14:01

is this your way of discreetly letting us know you do drink it ?

14:01

( and did wonder, in civ1, 'why the fuck MUST 'discover' 'womens suffrage' to build starship ... )

14:02

mircea_popescu: if you smelled enuff, you prolly drank some

14:02

that, i can explain. us 80s notion of space travel (inherited from 1960s french, as seen eg in http://trilema.com/2013/hibernatus/ ) involves the notion of sending families in ecosystems.

14:03

"women would never agree to be taken over to alphaq centauri chained to posts as slaves"

14:03

*

asciilifeform pictures kiddo who shows up to recruiter, 'i wanna be submarine commander! i played 9000 hrs of 'sea battle' ! '

14:03

notwithstanding that if either logic or experience have any say, should a multi-century "space colonization" thing occur, women'd be EXACTLY that, taken for the ride chained to a post.

14:04

it aint much of a hypothetical -- 'new world' shipment was precisely as described

14:04

asciilifeform look no further : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-13#1841246

14:04

Logged on 2018-08-13 17:06 BingoBoingo: Well, dude was unhappy with his life and just wanted to do a barrel roll per the transcripts. If they let the shootdown get out they fear a wave of "muh feelz"

14:05

mircea_popescu: hey, he prolly played 'aces', so learned barrels!11 if played 'flight simulator' instead, whoknows, maybe would've bellylanded

14:06

heh

14:07

anyway, it's shockingly rare to see kiddo come up to instructor with anythiong but "i wanna be * commander". because http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-08#1848730 amirite, erryone's a lord and there's no serfs anywhere.

14:07

Logged on 2018-09-08 17:18 mircea_popescu: "I am not to be common, Kyle, ok? I am a creature like no other. I know that. I am a creature like no other. And I will not -- I willnot be common. "

14:07

kinda how us army was disbanded, to be replaced by the us "core of training". "teaching" the orcs is almost not insulting to the idiots' notions of self-importance.

14:08

afaik the recruitment queues are as full as ever

14:08

so the us can at any time you wish field large helpings of "support personnel", but not the useful kind (that cleans latrines). the ustarded kind, that wants to "let's all make a circle" and "just talk"

14:09

asciilifeform certainly, and the "hr" office as full as ever, for every factory. just, not full with anyone worth hiring applying to do any job. just fulla derps who expect to be paid for existing.

14:10

not even "want to". EXPECT TO be paid for existing.

14:10

want is the expectation projected into the future ; expectation is the want projected into the past. the zek is of the opinion that "really ? we still have to DO this ?!" re "the conversation" about how he's to do work. what fucking work!

14:11

mircea_popescu: coupla times in recent yrs asciilifeform , in saeculum, was asked to recruit various hands ( programmers, reversers, etc ) and you can prolly guess result

14:11

in entirely unrelated non-news, the surprised by joy thing has been most read article this month since the day it was published. it's so fucking rare for a same-month article to even rank... i wonder wtf happened there.

14:11

'what can you do' 'i can matlab'

14:14

and on this note, /me shall get to item he's been procrastinating!

14:15

<mircea_popescu> in entirely unrelated non-news, the surprised by joy thing has been most read article this month since the day it was published. it's so fucking rare for a same-month article to even rank... i wonder wtf happened there. << USG.Blue&Red derps suspecting steganography?

~ 23 minutes ~

14:39

i guess!

14:43

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848881 << btw, incidentally 'a broomstick fires once'(tm), and there was at least 1 ameri-sf writer d00d (l. niven) who had a sorta cat-like alien race, who colonized exactly like this, and eventually evolved 'nonsentient' females

14:43

Logged on 2018-09-09 18:03 mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that if either logic or experience have any say, should a multi-century "space colonization" thing occur, women'd be EXACTLY that, taken for the ride chained to a post.

14:44

this is strictly impossible, btw, the "evolved nonsentient female".

14:44

hey, silicon-based critters also currently thought impossible

14:44

whoknows, maybe dimorphism could carry farther than it does in earthling.

14:46

or could have scenario in the vein of mircea_popescu's parasitic worms tale

14:47

sad earthlings already farther along this track than anybody cares to admit ( or mircea_popescu would not be running his sea water reactor )

14:47

not a matter of "thought impossible". it's strictly impossible, you're not cramming "sentience" into a half chromosome

14:47

can easily picture higher brain being an optional #ifdef

14:47

i can't.

14:48

you can pack as many #ifdef (xyz) into arbitrarily small segment.

14:48

only in code.

14:49

in meat code similarly.

14:49

like where ?

14:49

among known examples, fly wing

14:49

like where you no longer have nipples ?

14:49

mno, like where we dun have uteri

14:50

so you're talking, actual decerebrated mammal. how would it work ?

14:50

not decerebrated, strictly, just de-uppercortexed, say, to carry with known earthling physiology

14:50

you regulate say liver function from outside ?

14:50

errybody gets the stem

14:50

this is not even how the brain works.

14:51

i see 2 separate q here -- a) 'can evolve this from earthlings' (possibly not, path-dependent) b) 'could physically exist such a critter' ( unknown, but i dun see any fundamental whynot )

14:52

there's very much not a central switch, whereby the blastule goes "now we completed stem, moving on to ganglia". there's no such phase ; future neocortex structures predate such diversification as separate digits.

14:53

the "strictly impossible" was re a ; b is likely impossible becasue of space-starvation. the deep reason male mammals have nipples even if no uterus is that the "proper" signification of every-single-fucking-detail exceeds the "storage space" so to speak available to the physical process. so ~everything is overloaded, and generally >10 deep.

14:53

there also is a c) 'what exactly means 'higher brain function' . seen through certain lens, most current-day earthling ~already~ walking around without any

14:54

yes well in that sense, the soi-dissant "united states government" being as it is an uppity (and, shamefulyl, tax-avoidant) group organized under the republic's millet system and so on.

14:54

"all problems already resolved, in general speaking"

14:55

if martians land tonight and in their pov 'sentient' means 'grasps at least first order logics' they will immediately barf, 'we found a race where 1 full battallion of sentient males for erry female , and whole buncha veggies '

14:55

now the ~other way around~, where male becomes a sort of parasite, is widely seen, from fishes to insects (and, as per "they're just little boys" common discovery of middle-aged whores), humans also.

14:56

going the other way is against nature, though.

14:56

what's "grasps" mean here ?

14:57

the male/female divide that produces the batallion-to-one ratio is "grasps, grasps, but does not care", not "fails to grasp".

14:57

!#s two humps

14:57

11 results for "two humps", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=two%20humps

14:57

^ e.g.

14:59

illustrative example : 1. ruler says "whosoever eats this delicious treat will be whipped". 2. john and jane eat it. 3. john is brought for judgement, "wtf ?" "i did not understrand eating the treat i ate is the eating of the treat you were talking about" "a ok, moron" ; 4. jane is brought for judgement, "wtf ?" "i did not understand you saying so and so whipping applies to me." "what ?" "i am pregnant."

15:00

http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/09/seeking-forum-input-auctionbots-currency-btc-vs-ecu/ << lobbesblog - Seeking Forum Input: Auctionbot's Currency - btc vs ecu

15:00

yes, out of 1k humans 900 are morons. but out of the 100 remaining, 99 females "are morons" because "muh babies".

15:00

lobbes forum schmorum, if you de-ecu it ima kick it off #eulora and have someone else make a different one.

↖ ↖

15:01

waiwat i thought the whole point was euloratronic bot

15:01

aha, glad I asked.

15:01

I'm also fine with it being 100% ecu

15:01

asciilifeform unrelated items.

15:02

aa hm there's 2 of'em?

15:02

there's a lobbesbot, a foxybot, a mockybot, you have no idea.

15:02

asciilifeform: current auctionbot runs in #eulora (arm of lobbesbot)

15:02

mircea_popescu: i have a (limited) idea

15:02

!Qauctionlist

15:03

well whatever the syntax is. runs here too, just doesn't hourly announce.

15:03

won't list here (#eulora list only)

15:03

or in pm

15:03

ah ok

15:03

iirc mircea_popescu fatwa'd bot that speak by themselves , other than deedbot

15:03

yeah

15:07

Well okay then. I'm going to move forward with auctionbot dealing 100% in ecu. Meaning users will need to convert their input to ecu even if dealing outside of #e. (which, I'm fine with. atm Ecu allows me to simply use integer data type and also allows users to deal in fractional satoshis)

15:07

quite.

15:07

roger that. I'ma update post and head back to lab

15:08

one helluva ooda loop we got going here.

15:10

trinque

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-08#1848784 << looks good to me. didn't want to include prior patches, or just didn't include them in the sample?

15:10

Logged on 2018-09-08 23:31 mod6: Here it is: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1sNFt/?raw=true

15:22

before this gets lost upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848800 >>>> <<<< http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ffrbd/?raw=true << basic scheme

15:22

Logged on 2018-09-09 16:59 asciilifeform: peltier is potentially very good current source for long-term unattended stations -- unlike photopanel, it isn't afraid of rain, or bird shit, etc. and a long stake into the earth potentially gives coupla of degree temp diff yr round

15:27

could be 'clever' and make the atmosphere-facing end a parabolic reflector, and collect sun, but then subject to birdshit etc.

15:36

http://thewhet.net/2018/09/from-scratch/ << The Whet - From Scratch

~ 17 minutes ~

15:53

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848896 << btw reading the title i cannot help but think of later esr's 'surprised by wealth' lulgem

15:53

Logged on 2018-09-09 18:11 mircea_popescu: in entirely unrelated non-news, the surprised by joy thing has been most read article this month since the day it was published. it's so fucking rare for a same-month article to even rank... i wonder wtf happened there.

16:06

trinque: Thinking about it here quick, I think I ought to have all of them in there for what is included in a "proper trb". Adding them all in now, would give them all similar block times, but that's fine. It is what it is.

16:07

A while back it was argued that a full-regrind of the entire trb vtree was not necessary. Having all the manifest entries in there, even if starting now, should suffice.

16:07

asciilifeform this cleverness leads to "implemented solar panel out of wooden stick"

16:08

trinque

mod6: I figure giving them the same block times is the right thing, since it's entirely true (and useful to denote) that they were all added to manifest.txt at that time

16:08

*nod*

16:08

Thank you for the review and suggestion.

16:09

Anyone else agree/disagree with this direction?

16:10

No need to answer now, actually. I'll just write it up and post it here for review.

16:11

trinque

word

16:11

i dun see anything wrong with either approach. having them all have current block height as trinque says, correctly reflects present situation. having them have whatever other denotation you choose (some kind of reconstructed "blocks as it were") has the advantage that it reflects historical knowledge. neither of these is important : FUTURE manifest.txt versions can reflect w/e we want them to then.

16:12

ie, this isn't a place to be worried about making a mistake ; mistakes are self-correcting anywya.

16:12

Thanks for your input mircea_popescu.

16:16

http://qntra.net/2018/09/us-congressional-expert-witness-testimony-bitcoin-being-solicited-over-postal-service/ << Qntra - US Congressional Expert Witness Testimony: Bitcoin Being Solicited Over Postal Service

16:16

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848970 << right. so imho oughta be built with 0 expectation of direct light.

16:16

Logged on 2018-09-09 20:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this cleverness leads to "implemented solar panel out of wooden stick"

16:17

ideally oughta work ~same when overgrown with vines, moss, etc

16:17

yeah.

16:17

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848980 << lol privkeys via usg.post

16:17

Logged on 2018-09-09 20:16 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/09/us-congressional-expert-witness-testimony-bitcoin-being-solicited-over-postal-service/ << Qntra - US Congressional Expert Witness Testimony: Bitcoin Being Solicited Over Postal Service

16:18

just when 'hard to think of anyffing dumber than goxcoins', this

16:18

BingoBoingo ahahaha what the fuck, these morons.

16:18

mircea_popescu: Terminal disconnect from reality

16:18

good thing they stopped climate change.

16:19

asciilifeform: That's the testimony, does not appear to be the reality

16:19

BingoBoingo: fuckknows, could be based in some fact, somewhere, cousinfuckers afaik are genuinely this stupid

16:19

to this day no 'isis' pubkey , for instance.

16:19

in fact, there's no serious reason to suspect pantsuited clowns of any peculiar relationship to reality.

16:20

mircea_popescu: only by 'stopped clock is right 2x/day' fortuitous accident

16:21

'Bitcoin has become the preferred payment method for Stormfront, the oldest and largest white supremacist...' << ~they~ dun have pubkey either, last i saw

16:21

so fully expect 'donations' to all go to google or whoever's in charge of sed s/terroristbtcaddr/reichsbtcbank packet-diddlage these days

16:22

yup

16:23

usg "opposition".

16:23

'father gapon'

16:23

*

asciilifeform has yet to meet a us.muppet who knew of priest gapon

16:23

usg is "how to go through the motions of doing things withouy doing anything" and usg "opposition" is "how to go through the motions of opposing usg, without fucking anything up for them". they're not all that substantially different.

16:24

same clay, same bricks, eh

16:24

http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-05#1422436 << see also.

16:24

Logged on 2016-03-05 14:09 asciilifeform still waiting for pubkey written in piles of known heads on camera

~ 1 hours 42 minutes ~

18:07

http://bingology.net/2018/09/09/assorted-retail-grocery-prices-in-montevideo/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - Assorted Retail Grocery Prices In Montevideo

~ 19 minutes ~

18:26

Dulce De Leche 500 grams - 95 pesos << bwahahaha wut.

18:27

that's approx same as what it costs here in usgistan (~3usbux)

18:27

( granted, it comes out of usg.cows here, so possibly not comparable )

18:28

asciilifeform prefers the ru-exported one, costs ~1.5x , sold in the same spots where sprats

18:29

i suppose my wut is spurious ; while it's true i can eat it about as much as salt, nevertheless salt ALSO comes in kg boxes.

18:30

i could eat whole can ( but wouldn't , these days )

18:30

unrelatedly, i rewatched http://trilema.com/2011/aurora/#selection-49.276-53.70 and the original comment very much stands. anyoen want to know why "romanians" (esp in the sense of "lives in bucharest cca 2010") should've been fucking shot...

18:31

mircea_popescu: when i think 'inhabitants of current bucharest', immediately think of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-29#1730399

18:31

Logged on 2017-10-29 21:06 asciilifeform: picture, e.g, d00d in a bathrobe, in front of mercedes, hood popped, in one hand flashlight , in other - meat cleaver

18:32

lmao

18:32

if only. that sounds rather serbian, much better.

18:32

apocalyptic wasteland

18:32

nah, actually saw this scene

18:33

and also the other great marvel, the 1980s-looking autos, standing 'parked' near boarded-up (yes) city park, on blocks, solid block of rust

18:33

standing right next to ordinary-looking (presumably)working ones

18:34

yup.

18:35

lotsa equally rusted/dusted monuments to 'shot during uprising', ads for german kindergartens, miscellaneous parts of ??? rusting on the ground (where are the metallists!?) , etc

18:35

asphalt so fulla holes, asciilifeform wore out a set of shoes

18:36

o o o looky what ifound! hey asciilifeform speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-31#1845998 : how about http://trilema.com/2010/de-abia-dupa-2012/

18:36

Logged on 2018-08-31 00:18 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-30#1845938 << this supposed untranslatability of ro, is illusory imho, translates just fine to ru and prolly other civilized tongues

18:36

( and i walked no more than 30km of bucharest )

18:36

trades so much on the latin underneath, i give you 0% chances!

18:37

what was this

18:39

this was a poem i wrote.

18:39

*

asciilifeform found a decent turkish place in bu., was in outskirts, behind a playground where trees grew through the slide

18:40

in related lulz, bu subway is almost exact copy of chicago's, at least in re the degree of rust and grime

18:41

and loud.

18:41

i think they're using the same trains

18:44

bucharest has maybe 6 blox that look like euro civ. the rest -- bananistan

18:45

and today's new york looks like 1998 chicago, and so going.

18:46

newyork even in 1990s was mixed bag

18:47

(today there's an inner core of printolade-purchased glass boxes, outside of it - 1890s construction, some of it still with faded e.g. 'fine imported furst' stencil print on the smog-coloured walls )

18:47

*furs

18:48

and on erry other street corner, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-19#1206677

18:48

Logged on 2015-07-19 21:13 asciilifeform: http://gothamist.com/2008/01/31/nitrogen_tanks.php

18:48

ever since the flood

18:56

mircea_popescu: the most eyepopping nonsense was where timis was covered in 'win a flat in bucharest' ad crapolade

18:56

who in his right mind would move, even for money

~ 20 minutes ~

19:17

<mircea_popescu> i suppose my wut is spurious ; while it's true i can eat it about as much as salt, nevertheless salt ALSO comes in kg boxes. << It doesn't really come in much smaller packages. They go UP from here.

~ 21 minutes ~

19:38

asciilifeform the usg machinery is not powered by sense. if you didn't know you wanted to move to miami, hereby you find out. if you're not the sort who finds this out thusly, terrorist.

19:38

simple, really.

19:39