Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-05-14 | 2018-05-16 → ↓
00:33 ben_vulpes mk, makin some progress on the pizarro accounting/assettracking db
00:35 ben_vulpes i'm going to do it in postgres; should be a lot easier to get php to do both the mysql for the pizarro mpwp and the postgres for deedbot than to port deedbot to mysql
00:35 ben_vulpes logbot, i mean.
00:43 mircea_popescu are you burning time on any random useless nothing you can think of, just as long as it's not http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-03#1808145 ?
00:43 a111 Logged on 2018-05-03 18:15 ben_vulpes: not required but it is the next item on my conveyor after the april report
00:50 ben_vulpes i don't think it useless nothing as it will snip significant time off report generation. the pressure from the board is to forge forward with the rockchips, but if there's change to be eked from the shared hosting i should capture that as well, so thanks for the prodding.
00:52 mircea_popescu nuts.
~ 7 hours 55 minutes ~
08:47 asciilifeform i must confess that i agree with mircea_popescu : the postgres db thing is neither here nor there, and in fact harmful, i would like to be able to run ben_vulpes's calculations as before , using his lisp proggies, without having to fuck with a db snapshot, wtf srsly
08:47 asciilifeform it strikes me as archaetypical wankage
~ 36 minutes ~
09:24 deedbot http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-partial-and-parallel-build-support/ << ave1 - Building GNAT on MUSL, now with partial and parallel build support
09:39 asciilifeform oh hey
09:44 * asciilifeform set up test of above, lessee if worx
09:48 asciilifeform 1 prelim result : the parallelism dunwork
09:48 asciilifeform strictly 1 cpu in use
09:48 asciilifeform ave1 ^
09:49 asciilifeform ( and yes i set the -jxxxx in the configs )
09:53 ave1 will be picked up from env, not in config.sh, the tarball script will make it's own config.sh in build/build-bootstrap (in general in build/build-<platform-name>)
09:53 asciilifeform in env it's -j32 , and no effect from this either
09:53 asciilifeform unless it wants a nonstandard var name ? ( what does it want? there are 0 docs )
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09:53 ave1 hmm, I've got to go now, but will check in later
09:54 asciilifeform aite
~ 17 minutes ~
10:11 mircea_popescu well, why not kick him while he's down. so, ben_vulpes , do you understand the meaning of "They know how to work those" in http://trilema.com/2013/attention-cunt/#selection-37.37-37.64 ?
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10:11 mircea_popescu you find yourself in the unique position of a start-up running out of runway that doesn't have AS MUCH AS A LANDING PAGE. suppose i wanted to send people over ; where the everloving fuck do i even send them ?
10:12 mircea_popescu you've been "managing" the thing for months, haven't yet hired a single salesman. what are you managing over there, the transition into bureaucracy ?
10:12 mircea_popescu do you have as much as an active account on a webmaster forum even ?
~ 19 minutes ~
10:31 mod6 So. I created this database back in March to help track inventory, payments, customer accounts, etc. This all to help ben_vulpes save time when doing reporting. Which, as I understand is taking him a lot of time each month.
10:32 mod6 Now do I think he's wasting time? No. I'm sure he hasn't spent much time on it at all since I even created it, but he would have to say for himself.
10:33 asciilifeform mod6: 'waste' may be wrong word. but quite hard to see why it is a blocker for the more urgent puzzler of 'where to get customers'
10:33 mod6 Now what is a waste of time, for me, is this lisp/sexp shit. For instance, lastnight it cost us 2 man hours. 1 for me, 1 for ben who had to take me through the entire rockchip lisp thing that he created.
10:34 mod6 And I guess, it is not up to me how Mr. Vulpes wants to track these things for Pizarro, however, if I'm asked to make decisions, I EXPECT that these things are clear, in plain language.
10:34 mod6 I've said this as recently as last week.
10:34 mod6 I don't think it is a 'blocker', but Mr. Vulpes will have to respond to that.
10:35 mod6 This is a simply, 'nice to have', in my personal opinion.
10:35 mod6 I'm no accountant, or anything, however, I find it insane to try to keep track of things in a lisp script. Do we really want to debug our accounting things every week/month?
10:36 asciilifeform mod6: it was my understanding that all of the inventory work was already done.
10:36 mod6 We are discussing/thinking about how to recapitalize, get more rockchips, customers. So this is on going. I don't think anyone is wasting anytime by any streach of imagination.[
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10:36 asciilifeform ( we have not any new inventory items since my expedition )
10:37 mircea_popescu you're a nice guy, mod6, and your point is without merit. nevertheless, the whole thing's a bike shed. who the hell even cares what the infrastructure is like for handling six numbers ?
10:37 mod6 I want all of the things in a place we can all refer to and say "oh there it is! now I can see how many x are in there" or whatever.
10:37 mod6 I don't care if it's a flat file either.
10:37 mod6 Just /SOMETHING/ that doesn't require debugging.
10:38 mod6 God forbid that ben_vulpes get's hit by a car on his bike tomorrow and then we have to pick this up.
10:38 mod6 How the fuck are we to know what is what.
10:38 mod6 How is this without merit?
10:39 mod6 All I'm saying is, a business should have a formal way to track things, this is all.
10:39 mod6 It is not a waste of time.
10:39 mod6 And I can agree, that it doesn't have to happen right now.
10:39 mircea_popescu it can't just be a csv ?
10:39 mod6 Perhaps, whatever it is, it must yield something that mod6 can read.
10:40 mircea_popescu yes ; but if the present trend continues you won't have all that much to read altogether.
10:40 mod6 I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.
10:40 asciilifeform it wouldn't even bother me if it were a js hack, along the lines of my http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-05#1809743 example
10:40 a111 Logged on 2018-05-05 00:07 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6 , mircea_popescu , et al : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/piz_tab.html << corrections of central column or other init params, welcome
10:40 asciilifeform but it does not need to take months to make, wtf
10:40 asciilifeform i made the above ^ in <1hr
10:41 asciilifeform and it has all of the pertinent functionality of a microshit spreadshit etc
10:41 mod6 I didn't say this was top priority either.
10:41 mircea_popescu hey, you get a free db with the file system, i never was arsed to do any better on my reports. not that i'm proposing my laziness as the model for anyone else nor that i think the bikeshedding discussion needs to continue, now extented into a theoretical comparison of the merits and dismerits of postgress and implicit-fs-db.
10:42 mod6 asciilifeform: it wasn't months. I spent probably 1 weekend hacking on a psql ddl back in march, and ben_vulpes is finally getting around to looking at it now.
10:42 mod6 I dont even think that he really wants to use it specifically either, as, again, mod6 is not accountant.
10:43 mod6 I'm not impartial to database. I just want something that we can all see, and all the info about the business is contained within.
10:43 mod6 *partial
10:43 mod6 Customers, who's paid, who hasen't, what do we own, when are teh bills due.
10:43 mod6 This makes 100% sense to me.
10:44 mod6 Again, not the top priority either. Anyway, moving on...
10:54 mod6 Ok.
10:55 mod6 So, let's say that we thought that we would need to raise 50 BTC (just throwing it out there) - I'd like to talk about how that might work.
10:56 mod6 Let's say, for instance, 5 different people each came in with 10 BTC. Would that create 5 new board seats each?
10:56 mod6 not each, 5 total.
10:57 mod6 I believe this is probably a good way to get Pizarro into better financial shape, but it's hard for me to imagine how this works.
10:57 mod6 So let's discuss :]
10:58 asciilifeform mod6: there is more than 1 difficulty with this scheme, but the most obvious one i know of, is that i dun think i actually know 5 people who ~have~ 10btc (much less wanting to play)
11:00 mod6 This is just an example.
11:00 mircea_popescu mod6, generally, if you refinance the old board gets trashed.
11:00 mod6 Aha. Ok.
11:00 mircea_popescu old interest ~might~ get one seat ; but usually does not.
11:00 mod6 This is good to know.
11:01 mod6 What happens to old bond holders?
11:01 mod6 Such as me? Does someone pay for my bonds?
11:01 mod6 Or equity or whatever it is.
11:01 mircea_popescu it's not really practical to have no boards, generally ; but also not larger than maybe a half dozen+1. even that's large.
11:01 mod6 Yeah, I think 4 is plenty.
11:01 mircea_popescu mod6, well, if it's a sale, like how you got it, then yes. if it's just refinancing, then you keep whatever %.
11:02 mod6 Ok, makes sense.
11:02 mircea_popescu there's an indirection layer there, between owning equity and board seats.
11:03 mircea_popescu equity entitles you to a say, but the necessities of physical world (whereby there's only so many seats for the thing to work ; and whereby those have to be seated on by physical people) make the relationship between board and equity somewhat electoral.
11:04 mircea_popescu and of course you can also just issue bonds ; whether convertible or not, until conversion event they sit on the passive.
11:04 mod6 Alright.
11:05 mircea_popescu but you will have hell on wheel in your hands trying to get more money as a palliative solution to "i don't feel like building sales today".
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11:07 mod6 Alright, so what do you suggest here? I thought that you were saying, multiple times that we should refinance. This is what I've been thinking about most lately.
11:07 mircea_popescu !#s refinance
11:07 a111 19 results for "refinance", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=refinance
11:08 asciilifeform also worth to keep in mind, that, e.g., asciilifeform is willing to jump through certain flaming rings for 50% stake, that he would not so eagerly jump through for 1%
11:08 mod6 I suspected this as well.
11:09 asciilifeform esp given as the fact that the project has cost asciilifeform a good % of his btc and the bulk of his usd
11:09 mircea_popescu i said it once, you know. aanyway : the original idea (get >=300 rockchips there, in a dozen+ Us) was trashed by practical considerations (as alf pointed out, he can't carry 12 us in one go) ; but it'd have required refinancing because you simply did not have enough money to pay for it.
11:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, oh, are you running out of cash, too ?
11:10 asciilifeform eventually will begin to run out, if no one else shares the chore of producing it
11:10 mircea_popescu did you ever manage to get a btc->fiatola conversion going ? or what, still mired in paperwork is it ?
11:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i gotta do a ro expedition.
11:11 mircea_popescu tsk.
11:11 asciilifeform supposedly 100% of paperwork, up.
11:11 * asciilifeform wishes there were a spare asciilifeform , because asciilifeform is 150% loaded with chores
11:12 mircea_popescu aite, let's get back to this.
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11:13 mircea_popescu mod6, you understand, refinancing is people putting money on a proposition. it depends immensely what the proposition is. P1 = "our book value is ~11 and consists 95% of exotic hardware nobody else can get where it is" is very different from P2 = "we ate through our seed A+++ would do some more dicking about with files we download. oh and there's also some hardware."
11:14 mircea_popescu does this make sense to you ?
11:15 mircea_popescu pretty much the ~whole~ of economic activity is the process of a) building b) truthful propositions that c) describe some sort of comparative advantage and d) lots of it, especially e) of a very easily defended kind.
11:16 asciilifeform asciilifeform's particular concern , is , in short form : right now we have the ~physical~ component of the item we wanted for yrs , a l1-operated locking-cage isp. but not ~economic~ component, because l1 does not presently add up to sufficient custom to power the thing 100% . so it needs heathen power. but this must be achieved without compromising on the 'l1 isp' .
11:16 asciilifeform heathens on the board, for instance, imho would thoroughly trash the 'l1 isp' premise.
11:17 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> does this make sense to you ? << Yes, Sir. Got it.
11:17 mircea_popescu the problem as far as i discern it is, "not only there's no conversation going, but the mutism threatens to entrench itself as a 'way to be', and it's not sustainable". when's the last time pizarro talked to anyone ? gotta talk to people, somehow, somewhere. silence is a first approximation of death.
11:18 mircea_popescu and this;d be a major problem ~even if~ l1 added up to 50%+1 of the entire world.
11:19 asciilifeform asciilifeform reached out to several intelligent heathen folk of old acquaintance ; and got same response from each , i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1808491
11:19 a111 Logged on 2018-05-04 01:50 asciilifeform: here's a sample of convos b/w asciilifeform and heathens ( whom he knows irl, over yrs ) : 'why didja put it in UY, bw costs 4x moar than in usa and cia will still steal yer iron eventually' ; 'i have to do what!? to get server in the rack?!' etc
11:19 asciilifeform but asciilifeform is no sales genius.
11:20 mircea_popescu but you didn't do this in a useful way ; because there's, for instance, no way for your friends (such as, say, you from the future) to reference it! or for the op to see anything.
11:20 asciilifeform entirely correct, i was not even able to persuade'em to join #p
11:20 asciilifeform ( heathens virtually always insist on 'private' comm, and have to be beaten with a stick to even contemplate sane conversation )
11:20 mircea_popescu consider for instance how the whole http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/#comment-1169 pile worked. we know things from there we don't know from what you're describing.
11:21 * asciilifeform agrees 100%
11:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, ok, but take https://forums.digitalpoint.com/threads/how-to-get-more-traffic.2694475/ : oodlebunches of linda patels having a smart discuss!
11:22 mircea_popescu they're even more retarded than tardstalk, if that were even possible.
11:23 asciilifeform what's the smart discussion there? i'm not seeing it
11:23 mircea_popescu https://www.digitalpoint.com/members/marry-john.787297/ << look at marry john. does zhe look familiar ?!
11:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-12#1812724
11:23 a111 Logged on 2018-05-12 07:57 mircea_popescu: reminds me of this chick on fetlife, "So you don't want to have a smart discuss, you're here for what ? What do you research here ? Because I'm agree with your description."
11:23 mircea_popescu i was being sarcastic.
11:23 asciilifeform lolk
11:24 asciilifeform for a sec i was thinking 'hmm wat'
11:24 mircea_popescu dorks don't even bother to crop the copyright notices off their "profile" pics.
11:24 asciilifeform this is why asciilifeform has serious headache , re the heathen component -- currently i've nfi how to appeal to them in any way at all
11:25 asciilifeform and the lack of discussion , is quite worrisome
11:26 mircea_popescu i don't know of any method besides filter feeding. and do you know what's the primary ingredient for filter feeding ?
11:26 asciilifeform fact of the matter is, for the price of pizarro rockchip, heathen can get 5x the cpu with 10x the bandwidth in heathendom. how to persuade him to instead buy this ?
11:26 mircea_popescu whale takes up what, 50 tons of water PER MOUTHFUL ?
11:28 asciilifeform whale is looking for plankton; if he were filter feeding for, e.g. , rabbits, in the sea -- might have problem
11:29 mod6 Well, I can agree, we need to get the word out.
11:30 mircea_popescu whale's just looking for protein. how the protein subjectively sees itself as packaged, "krill", "rabbit"... frankly none of the whale's problem.
11:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sorta why i doubt that the whale is the correct model. not all protein , from our pov, is created equally, a webtard with a few satoshi to his name, does us no good
11:32 mircea_popescu that'd be "no protein"
11:33 mircea_popescu seawater does whale no good either.
11:33 asciilifeform right
11:33 asciilifeform then yes
11:34 mircea_popescu takes up 50 tons of water per mouthful, one mouthful per minute, each minute, all day fucking long, each day of the loving year.
11:34 asciilifeform ( the other front line , is that we gotta get moar saleables, in particular rockchip system, asap )
11:34 mircea_popescu results in just enough protein intake to maintain its mass.
11:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, that's true.
11:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: right, the whale eats the way we breathe
11:34 mircea_popescu nevertheless, the problem of selling starts with the cheaper bits.
11:34 asciilifeform ( recall, btw, the crackpot who wanted to disperse food into the air and breathe it , lol )
11:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, well, actually, the whales eat the way successful business sells : like we breathe.
11:42 mod6 asciilifeform: 48 rockchips fit into 4U right?
11:42 asciilifeform mod6: in theory: in 2u
11:42 mod6 oh. huh. ok.
11:46 mod6 24032 (from ben's lisp thing) / 8500 = 2.82 BTC at todays prices for 24 Rockchips delivered is what we had figured out.
11:46 mod6 I think.
11:47 mod6 Just trying to see if we have enough money to get 48 RC's built and delivered down there.
11:47 mircea_popescu wait, what ?!
11:47 mircea_popescu i have nfi how this works, but pizarro seems to be getting ever less for ever more money.
11:48 mod6 I may have screwed this up: http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/rockchip.lisp
11:48 ben_vulpes no this is incorrect. i am fighting a fire elsewhere right now, will be back as soon as i can.
11:48 mod6 I'm just trying to figure out if Pizarro has enough cash to get 48 of these down there.
11:50 mod6 ah, maybe that as for 96. anyway, will wait for ben_vulpes
11:50 mod6 Still, having them is required, but we still gotta sell 'em.
11:53 mod6 I gotta get some shitty coffee. bbs.
~ 19 minutes ~
12:12 ave1 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813474, it uses MAKEOPTS, could you paste the contents of "build/build-bootstrap/config.sh" ? I will add a readme file to the set.
12:12 a111 Logged on 2018-05-15 13:53 asciilifeform: unless it wants a nonstandard var name ? ( what does it want? there are 0 docs )
12:15 asciilifeform a111: fail btw, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Lo1TQ/?raw=true
12:18 ave1 same as last time, ADA_OBJECTS_PATH and ADA_INCLUDE_PATH need to be *not* set. I can add the resetting of these variables to the script, but unsetting a variable is not something I usually do in a script.
12:27 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#355861 << shant, then.
12:27 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2018-05-15 12:35 asciilifeform: it strikes me as archaetypical wankage
12:27 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#355891 << ouch, yes.
12:27 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2018-05-15 13:58 mircea_popescu: well, why not kick him while he's down. so, ben_vulpes , do you understand the meaning of "They know how to work those" in http://trilema.com/2013/attention-cunt/#selection-37.37-37.64 ?
12:34 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#356051 << ~2.75 BTC at ~current rates gets 4 chassis with 96 total rockchippen, includes 1 delivery run per chassis.
12:34 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2018-05-15 15:37 mod6: ah, maybe that as for 96. anyway, will wait for ben_vulpes
12:36 mod6 ah, thanks SIr.
12:42 asciilifeform ave1: i unset ADA_OBJECTS_PATH and ADA_INCLUDE_PATH
12:42 asciilifeform ave1: but i did remember it after 1 failed run. possibly gotta zap the existing build ?
12:48 ave1 should not be needed, the makefiles request the variables, not configure
12:49 asciilifeform i'ma try it again, looks like OBJECTS was still set somehow
~ 1 hours 36 minutes ~
14:25 BingoBoingo After substantially more waiting in line, the cedula is in hand
14:27 asciilifeform congrats BingoBoingo !
14:31 jurov http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-10#1811883 << using https://api.github.com/users?since=1
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14:31 a111 Logged on 2018-05-10 14:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-10#1811871 << how didja enumerate the users ?
14:37 * spyked can confirm that the ^ method worx.
14:37 spyked jurov, do you by any chance remember how long it took for you to extract all the keys?
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
15:51 diana_coman ave1, if I want to test your gnat-building script what steps should I follow so that I have at the end of it maximum info re what works/doesn't and in what context exactly?
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~ 18 minutes ~
16:10 asciilifeform diana_coman: fwiw mine's still going...
16:16 diana_coman asciilifeform, well, I started it too and I'll leave it on, will see tomorrow morning I guess
~ 17 minutes ~
16:33 mircea_popescu !!up alex__c
16:33 deedbot alex__c voiced for 30 minutes.
16:36 mod6 Well, I did talk to a kid at lunch - told him we got cheap hosting.
16:37 mod6 Well, not a kid, but young guy. So who knows, maybe we'll make him a customer on the shared-environment.
16:37 mod6 We could use some advertising.
16:38 mod6 If we can get a landing page up -- then ya, can do some advertising.
16:38 mircea_popescu mod6, one way of looking at it is, "pizarro finds l1's in exile". you know ? "<h1>Pizarro</h1><h3>Welcome Home.</h3>"
16:39 mod6 'tis a nice touch, mircea_popescu
16:39 mircea_popescu and yes, specific items, right ? suppose someone searches for "arm hosting". well ?
16:39 mircea_popescu suppose there's a facebook group. suppose whatever the fuck, i dunno, i do other things.
16:40 mod6 Yah, and possibly fg. I know there is a sentiment that orcs are not interested in fg -- however, there are people I've talked to who are pretty interested in that. Don't have coins to buy one, however, still, interest is there.
16:40 mircea_popescu "orcs" is a pet name for about five billion people.
16:40 mod6 I mean, "wotless guys".
16:41 mircea_popescu there's ~some~ diversity even among orcs.
16:43 mod6 I don't have many "friends" irl or anything, but once we have a landing page, will do what I can on my meat-side.
16:43 mircea_popescu in utterly other lulz, i just archived a facebook page. anyone care to guess the aggregate byte size ?
16:44 mod6 27,054 bytes
16:45 mircea_popescu 27`001`189.
16:45 mod6 HEH
16:45 mod6 jeebus
16:46 mircea_popescu i shit you not. here's the page : https://archive.is/OJrrE ; here's the story : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uGngm/?raw=true
16:46 mod6 if we were all still on dialup, no one could use facebook...
16:46 mod6 "use"
16:48 mircea_popescu the externalized costs, you know ? suddenly puts into a whole new perspective the "net neutrality" thing. srsly, i must buy more switches cuz your "pages" are larger than my porn collection ?!
16:48 mod6 mod6.net is ~3000 bytes.
16:48 mod6 (homepage)
16:49 mircea_popescu mod6, i don't even have a problem with the mb, per se, i mean holy hell there's trilema pages consisting of tables or novels or w/e the fuck. but that mb is <1% markup for the love of christ, not 99%.
16:50 mod6 yeah. 99% crap. at least trilema, when I get 27mb, i get 99% stuff I actually want to read/view.
16:50 mod6 Your thing has meaninful content.
16:57 asciilifeform in unrelated noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-06#1810457 is rolled out to production. see stats pg and e.g. http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/factor/6447 ( currently there is only 1 'special collection' of factors -- debian victims; but soon will have many more, from e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-06#1810470 )
16:57 a111 Logged on 2018-05-06 15:57 asciilifeform: it is in the conveyor, along with 'where from?' stat in 'factor/123' page (e.g. 'debian collection', 'cisco', etc)
16:57 a111 Logged on 2018-05-06 16:43 asciilifeform: ^ d00d with large collection of debian-style 'famous p's and q's', even once showed up here and asked to get phuctor's, and he did, but somehow his collection includes ~whole keys~ rather than factors. soon i'ma feed in ~his~ collection.
16:58 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/05/us-alleges-some-guy-leaked-cia-tools-but-doesnt-allege-strong-enough-to-bring-charges/ << Qntra - US Alleges Some Guy Leaked CIA Tools But Doesn't Allege Strong Enough To Bring Charges
17:01 asciilifeform '...when he left the CIA in 2016, suspicion fell upon him as “the only one to have recently departed [the CIA engineering group] on poor terms' << lol!!
17:01 asciilifeform and , gold, '...claims that he initially provided assistance to the FBI’s investigation. Following the search of his apartment in March 2017, prosecutors waited six months to bring the child pornography charges'
17:02 asciilifeform apparently usg simply luvvvvvs old, worn out stoolies, gives'em... pensions
17:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, not bad.
17:05 mircea_popescu anyway, re other lulz, i can't imagine anyone can possibly regard "child pornography charges" / "sexual assault charges" etc brought by the criminal org as anything than shameful fabrications.
17:06 asciilifeform looks like they're bringing'em against otherwise-marked-for-discard tor/proxy/etc operators nao
17:07 asciilifeform ( per the letter of the law, iirc they're all 100% guilty , there is not an official 'common carrier' exemption for'em or anyone without Note From Hitler )
17:09 mircea_popescu talking of tor feels a little like talking of meni rosenfeld's bitcoin scam. anyone recall that "o ya, bcrypt, best tool on the market" lulzfest ?
17:09 asciilifeform seems to be a long-lived chumpatron, like ethertardium
17:10 asciilifeform 'gift keeps on giving'
17:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i think rosenfeld was before my time. tho he came up recently, iirc during adlai's expulsion ( he tried to defend , iirc )
17:11 mircea_popescu https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ybaut/do_not_invest_in_bitdaytrade_this_website_is/
17:11 mircea_popescu ancient lulz. basically the 2nd largest exchange (tree something) ran off with the funds, the people involved re-emerged doing all sorts of real estate and "trading" scams.
↖
17:11 mircea_popescu eventually gone away, i guess.
17:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: apparently not ~completely~ gone away: https://archive.li/Byweq << in the 'stipendi peccatus mors est' files
17:14 * mircea_popescu shrugs. "just a matter of perspective", right ? and then the proof and the blabla.
17:15 asciilifeform aaaaaaaand ave1 diana_coman mircea_popescu it built compiler ( ' Native compiler prefix built by musl-cross aarch64-linux-musl-native ' )
17:15 mircea_popescu o hey.
17:15 diana_coman oh, nice
17:15 hanbot http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813690 << tradehill, actually. http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-pr-almost-two-years-in-the-swamp-an-anthology/#selection-1753.0-1757.232
17:15 a111 Logged on 2018-05-15 21:11 mircea_popescu: ancient lulz. basically the 2nd largest exchange (tree something) ran off with the funds, the people involved re-emerged doing all sorts of real estate and "trading" scams.
17:15 mircea_popescu o right, right. tradehill.
17:16 asciilifeform however : i get 'exec format error' when trying to run any of the bins!!!
17:16 asciilifeform ave1 ^
17:16 asciilifeform oh nm
17:16 asciilifeform apparently his thing builds arm in parallel with x8664
17:16 mircea_popescu lmao you got add over there or what!
17:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: working through the conveyor...
17:17 asciilifeform anyway seems (preliminarily) to work.
17:17 mircea_popescu "it works! it doesn't work! o wait!"
17:18 * diana_coman is confused
17:19 diana_coman asciilifeform, mind writing it down somewhere head-tail: did this on that and result is this?
17:19 asciilifeform absolutely, gimme a few m
17:19 diana_coman thanks
17:19 BingoBoingo http://media.breitbart.com/media/2018/05/cheesecake.jpg
17:20 mircea_popescu bwahaha. by now the factor of punches to "threats" approaches the facebook.content to facebook.mark-up proportion.
17:21 mircea_popescu a WHOLE RESTAURANT worth of dudes insufficient to produce ~one fucking punch~.
17:21 mircea_popescu 27`001`189 bytes of THREATS of content. no content.
17:21 mod6 hehehe
17:25 asciilifeform AAAAAAnd we have a winner! ave1's musltronic gnat builds static, musltronic ffa !!!!
17:26 asciilifeform for x86-64 ( arm not yet tested )
17:28 asciilifeform diana_coman: steps to replicate: 0) on a machine WITH A WORKING GNAT (e.g. adacore's , and it must be in your path already ) 1 ) download the tarball from http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-partial-and-parallel-build-support 2) unpack tarball ada-musl-cross-2018-05-15.tgz , go to the dir 3) mkdir bin << this is where the built binariola will live 4) ./build-ada.sh /home/foo/temp/ada/ada-musl-cross-2018-05-15/bin
↖
17:28 asciilifeform << must use full path
17:28 asciilifeform in (4) naturally you put the path of your 'bin' that you made in (3)
17:29 asciilifeform 5-6 hours later ( the parallelization thing dun seem to work, and good chunk of time is spent in autoconf, which never parallelizes ) you get x86-64 and arm64 gnats
17:29 asciilifeform even conveniently tars them up for transport to other boxen.
17:30 asciilifeform i built a ch10 ffa with it, and the result runs.
17:30 diana_coman sounds great actually
17:31 asciilifeform i omitted a step 5 ) put in ~/.bash_profile , the path, e.g. PATH="/home/foo/temp/ada/ada-musl-cross-2018-05-15/bin/x86_64-linux-musl/bin/:$PATH"; export PATH
17:31 asciilifeform but this is sorta obvious
17:31 diana_coman apparently my local-gentoo-for-testing is still borked somewhere in some gcc version as it turns out it had died with ..cannot create executables (although gcc is set to 4.9 etc but this is an experimental box so I'll have to sort it out)
17:31 asciilifeform aanyway lessee if this builds for folx who aren't ave1 & asciilifeform
17:32 asciilifeform diana_coman: classic symptom of botched 6->5->4 gymnastics
17:32 diana_coman hm, come to think of it I could try it on my rockchip I suppose
17:32 asciilifeform nope
17:32 asciilifeform remember, needs a gnat
17:32 diana_coman I thought adacore had a gnat for arm too?
17:32 diana_coman no?
17:32 asciilifeform nope
17:32 diana_coman ugh
17:32 asciilifeform sorta how we began this thread !
17:32 asciilifeform however ave1's script appears to build one.
17:33 asciilifeform ( i have not tested yet )
17:33 asciilifeform it builds x86-64 and arm64 gnats, in one blow
17:33 diana_coman so hm, put it somewhere so I get it to my rockchip and test it in one blow?
17:33 asciilifeform correct.
17:33 mircea_popescu diana_coman, whole thing is bootstrapping gnatbox.
17:33 diana_coman mircea_popescu, yes, but apparently can't bootstrap on arm
17:33 asciilifeform in principle , the thing will run on any box with an already working gnat.
17:34 mircea_popescu not before it's done once, no.
17:34 asciilifeform diana_coman: recall, gnat is a (mostly) ada proggy.
17:34 diana_coman so let's see; if it works with asciilifeform's freshly produced arm64 gnat
17:35 asciilifeform diana_coman: want the tarball ? ( i have not tested it )
17:35 diana_coman asciilifeform, yes please
17:36 asciilifeform 1s..
17:38 asciilifeform ok, apol. for log clutter :
↖ ↖ ↖
17:38 asciilifeform e432850de89226c6745301a5932e30c5b09f260b9c850a5e76e8119f66b2f06f1798156138a1741aeff9c46ab90ff1d8ad97d9c089c7d76991a8b7ea8b104bdf muslaarch64-linux-musl-nativeada.tar.gz
17:38 asciilifeform a262186f938b1f1fec335aa6dbf81c5d0110cb9db02d19016943020835293a890d609be795be9bcd18d14023ef54d66da2f86934fe41287b2d009d0db390c188 muslaarch64-linux-muslada.tar.gz
17:38 asciilifeform 0c8ea1b6168d0643b7511eb01faf4f37eb34c03ba9e359e1915b18e40b868ecc4f9b54a962be82e3c7b5aceb53ec6151d8eb572b3816e169d2b598b136d2683b muslx86_64-linux-musl-nativeada.tar.gz
17:38 asciilifeform d6d76ec9f372875e8bf5a4acb45175d9593d6c022e98aab18eab55c10acc1f4fb393b0cb31841981da83621efb7170303b02714a3249a1abdf9342c1bd824e48 muslx86_64-linux-muslada.tar.gz
17:39 asciilifeform all live for now at : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/ada/ave1/FILENAME
17:39 asciilifeform the 'native' ones, iirc, expect an existing musl linux; i tested the x86-64 'muslada'
17:40 asciilifeform result is a 100% static, musltronic elf , which runs without problem on any linux on said arch, expecting no dynamic crapola
↖ ↖
17:40 asciilifeform e.g., ldd ./bin/ffa_calc returns
17:40 asciilifeform not a dynamic executable
17:41 asciilifeform and! ditto for ,
17:41 asciilifeform $ ldd `which gprbuild `
17:41 asciilifeform not a dynamic executable
17:41 asciilifeform i.e. the musltronic gnat itself, is a properly static, musltronic elf.
17:41 diana_coman thank you, I'll try it out
17:42 mircea_popescu this guy...
17:42 mircea_popescu !!rated ave1
17:42 deedbot mircea_popescu rated ave1 2 at 2017/07/19 18:58:19 << http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686605
17:43 mircea_popescu !!rated ave1 2 produced the holy grail : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813760
17:43 a111 Logged on 2018-05-15 21:40 asciilifeform: result is a 100% static, musltronic elf , which runs without problem on any linux on said arch, expecting no dynamic crapola
17:44 mircea_popescu !!rate ave1 2 produced the holy grail : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813760
17:44 a111 Logged on 2018-05-15 21:40 asciilifeform: result is a 100% static, musltronic elf , which runs without problem on any linux on said arch, expecting no dynamic crapola
17:44 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rcbGD/?raw=true
17:44 asciilifeform if diana_coman 's arm64 test pans out, this item will be included in the standard rockchip kit from that point on.
17:45 asciilifeform and after this, will become possible to talk about bitwise-repeatable builds of things.
17:45 asciilifeform ( we will find and kill wherever it is gcc's back-end pisses time/date/whatever-unique turds into the output elf )
↖
17:47 mircea_popescu word.
17:47 asciilifeform diana_coman: 1 suggested test, will be to build the thing on itself , on arm
17:47 asciilifeform ( if it works for building anything, should just the same build itself )
17:47 diana_coman asciilifeform, nosuchlabs.com/pub/ada/ave1/muslaarch64-linux-muslada.tar.gz should be for the rockchip, correct?
17:47 asciilifeform correct
17:48 asciilifeform the one i tested earlier, on pc, was muslaarch64-linux-muslada.tar.gz .
17:48 asciilifeform err
17:48 asciilifeform muslx86_64-linux-muslada.tar.gz
17:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, might be an idea to put the fellow on the pizarro warrants list, considering impact.
17:48 asciilifeform 1 step at a time..
17:49 mircea_popescu yes.
17:49 diana_coman well, I took it, checked it and it was ok, unpacked it and then went to its bin and tried to run gprbuild for instance and it died with exec format error...
17:49 * asciilifeform has no objection , if the rest of the board does not, to awarding fella a modest prize , if this in fact worxxx
17:49 diana_coman this on the rockchip, obv
17:50 mircea_popescu diana_coman, it builds an arm AND a x86 item. using the right one ?
17:50 diana_coman mircea_popescu, this should be the arm thing; hence the above confirmation with asciilifeform that I took the correct thing
17:50 diana_coman and fwiw I tried running from there also ./aarch64-musl-linux-cpp -> same result
↖
17:50 asciilifeform diana_coman: what does readelf -h aarch64-musl-linux-gcc give you ?
17:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i certainly am contemplating same for s.mg. after all, if one's not gonna tie himself to the smart ones, who will he tie himself to.
17:51 diana_coman asciilifeform, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xkIGf/?raw=true
17:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: rrright, but let's award the medals ~after~ problem is Trooly Solved ; otherwise we risk to run out of medals prematurely
17:52 mircea_popescu absolutely.
17:52 asciilifeform diana_coman: i suspect mistake : cuz i see http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gi3gH/?raw=true
17:52 asciilifeform i think you may have unpacked wrong ball
17:53 diana_coman hm, let me try again then
17:53 asciilifeform oh hah
17:53 asciilifeform no not mistake
17:53 diana_coman but kind of weird, I mean: which wrong ball
17:53 asciilifeform his aarch64-native is trooly arm64;
17:53 asciilifeform but his aarch64-linux-musl is... x86-64
↖
17:53 asciilifeform prolly typo in his script.
17:53 diana_coman well, we found it
17:54 diana_coman kind of what testing is for, at any rate
17:54 mircea_popescu ha
17:54 asciilifeform can try the 'native' ( it prolly won't run, iirc it needs a musltronic linux )
17:54 asciilifeform can try also the pc version, on pc ; or later rebuild and get all 4 proper ones once eggog fixed
17:55 asciilifeform ( a build on dulap took ~5 hrs )
17:55 diana_coman aha, why I chose the other one; but I can try the native one anyway too, sure
↖
17:56 mircea_popescu we prolly want to hold the complete set as a sort of standard somewhere anyway.
17:57 asciilifeform once we get http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813778 , and determine that the thing builds itself , and result builds itself, .... , n-deep
17:57 a111 Logged on 2018-05-15 21:45 asciilifeform: ( we will find and kill wherever it is gcc's back-end pisses time/date/whatever-unique turds into the output elf )
17:57 asciilifeform then -- can tentatively say 'official binaries'
17:57 * asciilifeform generally deeply dislikes distributing , much less signing, binariola
17:59 diana_coman asciilifeform, I really get that but onth if I have to get a bin I'd much, much rather get one from you than from adacore
18:00 asciilifeform this is fine, so long as it is understood that it is not necessarily 'cleaner' than adacore's
18:00 mircea_popescu there is no way to ~not~ distribute binaries, ever, at all, because of the bootstrap problem.
18:00 asciilifeform ( the thing weighs far too much for anyone to ever audit in the sense contemplated with e.g. ffa )
18:00 mircea_popescu distributing ~just these~ is by far the elegant cut.\
18:00 asciilifeform right.
18:01 mircea_popescu and nothing weighs too much. human weight on planet earth is half a trn tons.
18:01 mircea_popescu the only impossible task is the undefined task. once we pinned it down in the "this and naught else" format, it's doable.
18:01 asciilifeform incidentally 1 other interesting auxiliary project , would be to determine what is the oldest gnat that will build ave1's generator
18:01 asciilifeform and ideally 'gold' binary, to be built with ~that~
18:02 mircea_popescu a lot of peripheral, deeply useful work for the intelligent tuned in.
18:02 asciilifeform ( this is the kind of thing that uncovers thompsonism, say )
18:02 mircea_popescu yes.
18:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re 'nothing weighs too much', unfortunately this is not so, there are maybe a dozen people who can play, alive, and i actually dun know any of the other 19 , and even a 64kB binturd can be month's work, and problem is not O(n) even.
18:10 asciilifeform *other 11
18:10 mircea_popescu and how do you propose TO MEET THEM ?
18:11 asciilifeform 'come and drink the ocean with me' ?
18:11 asciilifeform lol
18:11 asciilifeform point being, it is actually considerably easier to write a new ada. ( in lisp or in whatever. )
18:11 mircea_popescu you meet intelligent people by having intelligent problems.
18:12 asciilifeform 'write new ada from the spect' is an attractive problem. 'drink the ocean' , not so much.
18:12 asciilifeform *spec
18:12 mircea_popescu you meet idiots by having dumb problems. that's what jail fucking is, even : forced dating club for the sort of idiots dumb enough to be petty criminals.
18:12 mircea_popescu and "drink the ocean" is an eminently attractive problem. in fact, i know of no more attractive class.
18:14 asciilifeform it is much harder problem , than, say, to clear ALL of the unexploded ordnance from ww2. a mine, whatever else can be said of it, is at least a physical object.
18:14 asciilifeform whereas a compiler bug can be a constellation of 9,999 conditions that must occur just-so.
18:14 mircea_popescu we weren't discussing hard.
18:14 asciilifeform (and observe that napoleonic ordnance is still sometimes found. not even to speak of ww2.)
18:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in my experience ( and to asciilifeform personally ) problems which provide zero incremental reward ( not even to speak of massive penalties for failure ) are not attractive.
18:16 asciilifeform medieval serfs who built '400 year' cathedrals, were at least able to see the stones.
18:18 mircea_popescu what can i tell you.
18:18 diana_coman it might be my weird optimism but I'd say people are so starved of interesting problems that not-being-idiotic is already a huge reward
18:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the correct way to expose thompsonism, is to implement the compiler, and THEN to diff the bins.
18:18 asciilifeform if even 1 bit differs -- then, inquest.
18:19 * diana_coman quit once a "workplace" with the exact: your idiotic problems won't be my problems anymore
18:19 mircea_popescu looky : a) eventually you will have a binary to cut the boostrap knot ; b) that'll have to be audited ; c) the golden standard of auditing is and remains "check the bricks" rather than "verify the bricking process". hence things like the radioactive brick in cement.
18:20 mircea_popescu attractive problems are always and without exception those where all muck has been cleared and the naked wall of reality is expoised.
18:20 mircea_popescu size and difficulty are not considerations ; the only thing that makes items unattractive is the scent of "other rats" to borrow an eden metaphore.
18:21 asciilifeform it is not possible to say this except when you've never tried to disasm a multiMB turd, what can i say.
18:21 asciilifeform try it some time.
18:21 asciilifeform and then say where the 1 dangling pointer is.
18:21 mircea_popescu at the very least the attempt will inform the "build a compiler" work.
18:22 asciilifeform (there's a reason we're even doing ada.)
18:22 * asciilifeform brb,meat
18:26 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813816 <- rounding this up: tried it and yes, as expected, arm indeed but can't really use it since no musl
18:26 a111 Logged on 2018-05-15 21:55 diana_coman: aha, why I chose the other one; but I can try the native one anyway too, sure
18:26 diana_coman so I started ave1's script on a pc and hopefully I'll have a fresh gnat in the morning
18:26 mircea_popescu cool.
18:31 jurov spyked, iirc we used 4 accounts and it took about a month? surely it's in the log
↖
~ 21 minutes ~
18:52 BingoBoingo !Q later tell jurov http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ahdGa/?raw=true Thank you
18:52 lobbesbot BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
~ 38 minutes ~
19:31 asciilifeform diana_coman: unless you found and fixed ave1's mistake, you will have same eggogy arm64 gnat as i do
~ 39 minutes ~
20:10 mircea_popescu re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813559 : one important palliative measure would be for ben_vulpes to create a strong presence on localbitcoins, if nowhere else. there's people there willing to do wires for you, and you never know when it comes handy in a pinch.
↖ ↖
20:10 a111 Logged on 2018-05-15 15:12 mircea_popescu: aite, let's get back to this.
20:11 mircea_popescu but in general, you can't leave this as a dangling pointer. it's a significant threat, gotta be defended in depth.
20:11 asciilifeform iirc last anybody tried localbitcoins, it showed no signs of life
20:11 mircea_popescu link ?
20:12 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-28#995446
20:12 a111 Logged on 2015-01-28 07:42 mircea_popescu: In Bitcoin this responsibility is based not in law, but fact. LocalBitcoins chose to fart on their plates and some of their weaker customers who trusted them are now ill. It doesn't matter where what was served was contaminated, but that LocalBitcoins served poison. Yes the consumers ought to have known better, but in the future knowing better means escewing a venue that sells turds as sausages on the virtue of both be
20:12 asciilifeform and possibly elsewhere
20:13 asciilifeform ( e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-08#969522 )
20:13 a111 Logged on 2015-01-08 05:10 BingoBoingo: As far as anyone knows localbitcoins is 3 Belgians and a 5Is leak.
20:14 mircea_popescu iirc that was a) a quote and b) re buying btc, not selling it.
20:14 mircea_popescu but yes, it is basically a small fetlife from yurp.
20:14 asciilifeform quote << apparently yes
20:15 mircea_popescu anyways -- something is better than nothing ; i'm not insisting on the specific someting, merely provided by means of example. as long as there's something.
20:15 mircea_popescu because this situartion whereby "nothing, because something's flawer" is really a 2nd approximation of death.
20:15 mircea_popescu flawed*
20:15 asciilifeform right, this item gotta be solved
20:16 mircea_popescu most people kinda discover this when kids reach school age -- while no such thing as perfect school... nevertheless, gotta send them somewhere!
20:17 mircea_popescu anyway, considering how little your needs are (what was it, a few k's worth of monthly wire ?), if indeed the whole of localbitcoins can't provide against hard currency, THAT is a qntra lulz item right fucking there.
20:17 mircea_popescu i'm chuckling already. i mean... you know ?
20:19 asciilifeform https://localbitcoins.com/instant-bitcoins/?action=sell&country_code=UY&amount=&currency=UYU&place_country=UY&online_provider=ALL_ONLINE&find-offers=Search does seem to report ~something~
20:19 asciilifeform BingoBoingo ^
20:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i don'\t mean uy AT ALL.
20:19 mircea_popescu talk to whatever, belgium. denmark. dutchlands. any and all countries work, you want a ~wire~.
20:19 asciilifeform wire gotta land somewhere neh
20:20 asciilifeform or am i misconfiging the search box
20:20 mircea_popescu sure, you know the bank acct.
20:20 asciilifeform right, i assumed 'country' field is 'to where wire'
20:20 mircea_popescu i somehow doubt that.
20:21 asciilifeform worth a test
20:21 asciilifeform BingoBoingo mod6 ben_vulpes ^
20:21 mircea_popescu odds are, "country" is "where person selected they;'re located".
20:21 asciilifeform the worst it can do, afaik, is to silently swallow the test probe
20:21 mircea_popescu ie, entirely uninteresting field for you.
20:21 asciilifeform makes sense
20:22 mircea_popescu and if it does that, you got an item. remember the first actually deeded item, smickles' report re i don't recall which scamfest ?
20:22 mircea_popescu predated kako's run to hungary to examine w/e "miner" maker. you recall that btw ?
20:22 mircea_popescu or too early.
20:22 asciilifeform smickles ? i was tuned in but not speaking iirc
20:22 asciilifeform ( had nfi what was what )
20:26 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/#selection-71.0-71.38
20:27 mircea_popescu aand http://btcbase.org/log/2013-09-06#291189 / http://trilema.com/2013/primeasic-most-likely-a-scam/
20:27 a111 Logged on 2013-09-06 20:10 kakobrekla: we debunked primeasic on the second day
20:27 asciilifeform that one i recall
20:27 asciilifeform ( the 2013 item )
20:39 mircea_popescu anyway, by no means isolated effort. continuing through eg http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-june-2015-statement/#footnote_3_62044 or http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-april-2018-statement/#selection-1091.0-1091.47 or etcetera.
20:40 mircea_popescu to add to that pile : looked at "adclerks.com" recently ; advertising item that claims to take bitcoin. discovered that actually the largest sites listed are tiny, and it's altogether dubious the sum of the top dozen or w/e actually adds up to trilema.
20:40 mircea_popescu advertise if you can!
~ 1 hours 22 minutes ~
22:03 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> odds are, "country" is "where person selected they;'re located". << That's the deal. People doing wires do wires. Just gotta route around USistan
22:07 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ideally can supply BingoBoingo's piggy this way, and free up asciilifeform's usd for rockchip etc physical plant construction and delivery
22:08 asciilifeform ( tho i'ma prolly still need a hand with those, from other l1 folx with lulazon accts )
22:08 mircea_popescu this is so bizarre. it's like talking to the insane.
22:08 asciilifeform hm?
22:09 mircea_popescu how did dc bank account morph into "BingoBoingo's piggy" and why can't you have the same process for, eg, ordering shit off amazon.
22:09 asciilifeform potentially can !
22:09 mircea_popescu so how did a.1 turn into b.1 while a.2 is entirely aside ? no working classifier, what is it ?
22:10 asciilifeform it doesn't, however, it wires tho. would need a specialized 'localbitcoinist' afaik .
22:10 asciilifeform *eat wires
22:10 mircea_popescu amazon ?
22:10 asciilifeform correct
22:10 mircea_popescu when the hell did that happen ? im pretty sure i ever only paid it via wire
22:10 mircea_popescu not that i use it much.
22:10 asciilifeform afaik eats strictly usa bankcard.
22:10 mircea_popescu no fukcing way.
22:11 mircea_popescu usa bank card is what, 40% of the market.
22:11 mircea_popescu you think amazon doesn't have exactly the same problems as pizarro ?
22:11 * asciilifeform will actually rtfm and find out
22:14 asciilifeform the other thing, i doubt that lulazon is sole source for anything. merely fast/convenient in asciilifeform's locale. but e.g. the rc board ~is~ available elsewhere
22:15 asciilifeform ( on top of mircea_popescu prolly being right that it can be made to eat wires, if coaxed )
22:16 mircea_popescu solutions abound ; but yes they don't fall in the eager open mouths, have to be actually applied to work.
22:17 mircea_popescu for that matter -- specializing a few localbitcoinists, if this is at all possible, has the advantage of you know -- adding people.
22:18 mircea_popescu the more one tends his garden, the more one has shit to rely on later.
22:18 asciilifeform troo
22:29 lobbes fwiw amazon does allow paying via (us based) checking acct.
22:30 mircea_popescu lobbes, were you looking to buy some btc btw ?
22:30 asciilifeform lobbes: it does. doesn't do anything for wires tho. and i looked in the docs, word 'wire' is only mentioned in re third-party sellers on lulazon being able to accept them ( on own power ) as payment
22:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, this is fine for you neh, talk to rc suppliers, qwho are all in china, until one wants to sell 96 pcs on wire. this way you know who to talk to about ~other~ pieces also later on, as i fucking doubt anyone only sells rc on amazon yes ?
22:31 lobbes asciilifeform, yeah, seems it is only ACH
22:31 mircea_popescu in general, the PERSONALIZATION of all relationships is the key to victory. yes, you met her at the casino bar, but this doesn't mean anything abotu the fucking casino bar.
22:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not being a complete idiot, asciilifeform found several independent suppliers of rc.
22:32 mircea_popescu and same for chicks you pick off any other fetlife, whether they call themselves "localzon" or "amabitcoins" or ANYTHING ELSE. meat markets, all of them.
22:32 mircea_popescu find some hunks you like and ~take them home~.
22:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, cool. any of them want to be wirepaid ?
22:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: will likely find out soon, i wrote quote reqs
22:33 mircea_popescu cool.
22:33 lobbes mircea_popescu, well, optimally I'd be buying a little btc every certain frequency. Just converted some fiat a month or so ago though buying for pizarro
22:34 mircea_popescu it'd be indeed surprising if a) anyone selling useful electronics wasn't from china or b) anyone from china couldn't eat wires. and so there you go.
22:34 mircea_popescu lobbes, a cool, so you don't need an introduction then.
22:34 * mircea_popescu kinda doesn't know when these are needed nowadays o.O
22:35 lobbes but yeah, I'm almost always interested if pizarro needs some lulazon materials ordered
22:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the 1 non-cn component ( aside from asciilifeform-crafted ironworks ) is the samsung ssd
22:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, alrighty, but by now pressure's off you by a degree of magnitude at least. which was the idea, let's put out fires before they catch.
22:35 asciilifeform aha
22:36 mircea_popescu don't a) put yourself in situations where you're overpressured only so that b) you can complain you find yourself in situation of overpressure. whole fucking trick to management, that.
22:37 * asciilifeform not deep ocean fish, does not particularly relish megapressures
22:38 mircea_popescu i bet.
22:38 * trinque is willing to buy btc via pizarro again, as he has already.
22:38 trinque much better than dealing with idiot exchanges
22:39 lobbes verily
22:39 lobbes or randos on bitcoin-otc
22:41 mircea_popescu anyway, amazon also sells larger items, such as electric equipment, boats, w/e. how the fuck they do that via visa is anyone's guess.
22:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: can buy tanker with visa, if one insists. ( and they also issue own card, and profit thereby , good % of users have it )
22:43 mircea_popescu not in my experience, they settle in 60 days or some dumb shit.
22:44 mircea_popescu who the fuck's gonna give visa 60 days layover on a mn or two.
22:44 asciilifeform 'small biznis' in usa is a funny thing.
22:44 mircea_popescu not to mention nobody but the lozeriest of consumer sellers would ~even consider~ the bs "arbitration" and visa opining on things and matters.
22:45 asciilifeform it's a konsoomer/smallbiznis retail joint.
22:45 * mircea_popescu solidly despises anyone accepting credit cards as means of payment. they're the modern day equivalent of medieval pub wenches, there to have children of unknown paternity each year.
22:45 asciilifeform ( and it is unknown to asciilifeform whether anyone actually buys the 100k boats/planes/etc one can find listed on lulazon. it is entirely possible that : not )
22:46 mircea_popescu well sure as fuck not with a card lol. unless i suppose the occasional "platinum iridium black iridiscent" cuck
22:46 mircea_popescu but those 90s items are kind of a dying breed.
22:46 asciilifeform dun forget, decade passed since mircea_popescu toured usaistan; cards with 100k limit are common nao
22:47 asciilifeform i shred the scamola 'preapproved!111' from these, ~daily
22:47 mircea_popescu heh
22:48 asciilifeform they literally fill my postbox on occasion
22:48 asciilifeform asciilifeform is probably on some list of egregious idjits somewhere
22:48 mircea_popescu haha
22:48 asciilifeform the most annoying thing, sometimes the ~actual card~ is in there
22:49 asciilifeform i had to upgrade the crosscuttron, to eat these...
22:49 mircea_popescu could just throw out whole neh ?
22:49 asciilifeform ahahahaha good one
22:49 lobbes heh
22:49 mircea_popescu >D
22:50 asciilifeform nao they introduced ~metal~ cards. but these dun get sent unsoliced -- yet. when they start to, i'ma have to... idk, first burn, then slice what remains with guillotine ?
22:50 asciilifeform *unsolicited
22:50 mircea_popescu i hear dali made urine etchings.
22:50 asciilifeform i would be surprised if not
22:51 asciilifeform hey ben_vulpes , trinque , mod6 , do you also get these horrors in the post ?
22:51 asciilifeform or just me.
22:52 * lobbes gets
22:52 asciilifeform ha
22:52 mircea_popescu anyway, this discussion is vividly bringing to mind acquaintance there. erry day he'd religiously shred the mail spam. "hey, why do you not read it ?" "well, it's spam, waste of time to read. that's why i shred". erry day, half hour, at the least. saving self from the waste of time.
22:52 trinque sure, one year 0%, then only 25%, and etc
22:53 mircea_popescu you know i never got one ? in my entire life!
22:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they get shredded not to shove'em moar compactly into rubbish bin, but because there are 'specialists' who collect'em from rubbish, fill'em out, then swipe from postbox when 'activated' card comes in, then max it, and luser finds out when wages start vanishing
22:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i realise.
22:54 asciilifeform ( at one time i dismissed this as a laborious/rare scam, until met several people who ended up in it )
22:54 mircea_popescu it was rare in the 90s ; it's pestilentially common now.
22:55 mircea_popescu more than half of the "global economy threatening" "fraud" comes from this.
22:55 asciilifeform sad part is that it dun actually ~require~ collecting rubbish, these days...
22:55 asciilifeform aaha
22:56 asciilifeform 'lulzcharges from $distantlocale on existing card' is considerably less painful for konsoomer in usa, however, than 'brand new card in yername in hands of $joker'
22:56 lobbes apparently us kidz these days are getting their ss#s harvested from the numerous 'ransomware attacks' on schools (i.e phishing government employees to give access to poorly protected data)
22:56 lobbes lulzy out there
22:56 asciilifeform lobbes: typically they're harvested straight from vendor's db
22:57 asciilifeform no xyzware necessary
22:57 mircea_popescu except the way it works is restaurant/bar/whartever you frequent is stuck hiring the fucktarded neets, who have massive turnover, and are potheads/convicts universally. just a matter of time before one swipes your card, and then go, explain that th4e charges were bogus at restaurant down the street you visit weekly.
22:57 mircea_popescu it takes a dose of imbecillity on the level of such displayed in fargo, to use credit card as a means of payment.
22:58 trinque meanwhile creating however many billions of "fraud" within which to hide whatever the bank wants.
22:58 mircea_popescu they ~are~ useful, principally in the sense of giving agent a pile of them when sent on mission. but that's about it.
22:58 asciilifeform ( see also thread http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-13#499334 )
22:58 a111 Logged on 2014-02-13 01:00 asciilifeform: fact is, 'carding' could disappear overnight if the card issuers wished it. (even in countries with ubiquitous old-style magnetic readers. devices which present the correct magnetism, using one-time account #s, are trivial.)
22:59 asciilifeform multilayered and quite complex scamolade pie.
22:59 mircea_popescu also known as "united states economy".
22:59 mircea_popescu because there really isn't anything else.
22:59 asciilifeform noose at eleven..
~ 23 minutes ~
23:23 mod6 <+asciilifeform> hey ben_vulpes , trinque , mod6 , do you also get these horrors in the post ? << oh yeah. i end up with bushels to burn every quarter.
23:24 mircea_popescu actually he prolly has it, coal bed incineration faster and better than shredding
23:26 mod6 it's quite incredible.
23:30 mircea_popescu o btw asciilifeform , here's a hysterical example of the usual boeckisms : http://trilema.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-i/#comment-125502
23:31 ben_vulpes http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iRBZT/?raw=true << entertaining
23:31 mircea_popescu and it's not anything ; random comcast consumer from Joplin, Missouri.
23:32 mircea_popescu this is what they do.
23:32 ben_vulpes yo BingoBoingo how about some scans of that hot cedula :P
↖ ↖ ↖
23:39 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-16#356543 << i've got folks in-wot i've already pushing btc to over amazon; i'm pretty comfortable with orders in the range of 500-2000 usd; what i'm looking for are folks that want to eat on the order of 10kusd of btc every month or so, that's the comfortable headroom i'd like
↖
23:39 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2018-05-16 02:22 lobbes: but yeah, I'm almost always interested if pizarro needs some lulazon materials ordered
23:42 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#355976 << if you're burning usd that shoulda been billed to the corp, pls to do so. otherwise, you're burning the usd to...get btc? i don't really understand the objection.
23:42 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2018-05-15 14:56 asciilifeform: esp given as the fact that the project has cost asciilifeform a good % of his btc and the bulk of his usd
23:43 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: all properly billed to date.
23:43 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-16#356583 << have you pulled the opt out lever and contend it doesn't work or have you not yet
23:43 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2018-05-16 02:39 asciilifeform: hey ben_vulpes , trinque , mod6 , do you also get these horrors in the post ?
23:43 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: did, and yes
23:43 mod6 there's no opt out lever.
23:43 trinque yeah, I went to whatever bullshit site and said pretty pls no bully
23:43 ben_vulpes ah ty asciilifeform, the spare spleen where i keep anxiety thanks you
23:44 asciilifeform mod6: there's a fictional lever
23:45 mod6 aha, fictional
23:46 ben_vulpes far more interesting story than context-free bitchin about the spam imho
23:47 * ben_vulpes doesn't depreciate shredder blades on anything but the plastic; everything else gets packed into the prepaid return envelopes
23:47 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: sounds laborious
23:47 asciilifeform what, if you get 17 turds, you open'em all ?!
23:47 ben_vulpes why bother
23:48 asciilifeform or do you conscript the childrenz to do it
23:48 mircea_popescu my takeaway from this is, "if establishing natoreich household, saw oil barrel in half, dump grill charcoal + mail there weekly or w/e"
23:48 ben_vulpes one only needs the single return envelope...
23:48 mod6 i use firepit + healthy dose of gasoline
23:48 mircea_popescu or that.
23:48 ben_vulpes seventeen lmfao i ain't seen more than 2 in a week in recent memory. far more irksome the raw advertisements from which i must sift actual and extremely rare bits of important mail.
23:49 * asciilifeform has 'enronator', prolly will upgrade to proper honest crematorium soon
23:49 mod6 heheh
23:52 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#356068 << anyways, since there's cash on hand and building what i think are 2 trips worth of rockchip plant would get us more than clearing rent, imma push to get the next two plants into fab so that when the price inevitably dips we have a basis on which to capture http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-05#1809922
23:52 a111 Logged on 2018-05-05 03:06 mircea_popescu: if bitcoin starts dropping again people will be begging to buy into you, logically.
23:52 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2018-05-15 16:21 ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-15#356051 << ~2.75 BTC at ~current rates gets 4 chassis with 96 total rockchippen, includes 1 delivery run per chassis.
23:52 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2018-05-15 15:37 mod6: ah, maybe that as for 96. anyway, will wait for ben_vulpes
23:53 mircea_popescu that's an angle.
23:53 mod6 we will need a run of FG tho 'eh?
23:53 ben_vulpes mod6: lemme finish
23:53 mod6 my bad
23:53 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: 96 units == 1 trip, unless of course you want to mix rc + conventional servers in delivery
23:54 ben_vulpes in the meantime, i'll focus on a landing page, wading through the sea of omg that is webhosting forums and planning in detail how to filter the sea, and booting alternatives to extant l1folks for 10kusd btc sales
23:55 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: ah i had some notion that you maxed out at 2 chassis, if we can do it in a single run that'd be great
23:55 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: we're not shipping any more single servers down there until uy1 is gagging or l1 asks nicely
23:55 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i delivered 4u of box
23:55 asciilifeform recall.
23:55 asciilifeform just like specced.
23:55 ben_vulpes i do, clearly!
23:56 asciilifeform ( plus rc pilot, in rucksack, lol )
23:56 ben_vulpes my mistaken misunderstanding that you could only do 2 chassis of RC plant is incorrect then, which is actually cool
23:57 ben_vulpes i thought it was 24/chassis, 2u/chassis and (for some reason, obviously incorrect), 2 chassis per trip.
23:57 asciilifeform 1 man can carry 4u, or rather 100kg ( it is possible to have >4u in regulation-sized trunks ) plus rucksack 10kg.
↖
23:58 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: 24 in ~1u~ chassis.
23:58 ben_vulpes well that's magnificent and the part i missed
23:59 ben_vulpes so we can do an entire production run in one go. fuckin awesome.
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