Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-02-22 | 2018-02-24 → ↓
08:32 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-22#1785620 <-- X11 implementation of client-server model is broken (in more than one way), X clients could in principle recover from this condition, but they don't.
08:32 a111 Logged on 2018-02-22 23:33 mircea_popescu: because why just fucking restart x.
08:36 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-22#1785621 <-- ugh, my engrish; of course, by "highlighting" I mean "text selection", which is a GUI thing, and w3m and lynx/links seem to lack it altogether. now, scrolling they don't lack, but the js bit still doesn't implement window.scroll. anyway, let's consider the fact that text editors implement both selection and scrolling (and possibly other features useful for a browser), so a stripped-down text
08:36 a111 Logged on 2018-02-22 23:34 mircea_popescu: and also, why the fuck would text browser lack highlighting. how's it supposed to even work.
08:36 spyked editor might actually make a good basis for a browser. emacs, if we were to take greenspun's tenth rule into account.
08:40 spyked there's another thing, though I still have to get up to date on http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hypertext : teh Trilema JS is trying to solve what seems to be a limitation in the current URI scheme. the "resource" in URI refers to documents/pages (files!), whereas we want to (and it would be useful to be able to) link to subtrees in the document.
08:42 spyked very similar discussion to e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758790 ; diff works on hunks, not files, similarly, hypertext works on trees, not files. but this is only a (not very well thought out so far) intuition.
08:42 a111 Logged on 2017-12-26 21:42 phf: we also at some point had a thread, where i believe ascii but also others were leaning towards the idea of a single file vpatches (i.e. that a vpatch should only ever contain hunks for a single file). i'm starting to think that multi-file solutions in general are a hack ("we can't fit the entire compilation in memory"), but then i've been looking at TeX on one hand, and the "millions of support files" in diff/patch on the other
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
09:49 mircea_popescu spyked no, ~i know~
09:49 mircea_popescu that's the fucking problem, x is "mature" rather than the abstract joke it was in the 90s, yet it STILL doesn't handle the most basic of things. which is -- just fucking rebind the pipes holy hell wtf, sigpipe is an acceptable behaviour now ?!
09:50 mircea_popescu and as to the selection : i just tried ctrl^ and it worked fine. IN NANO.
09:50 mircea_popescu you know ?
09:52 mircea_popescu and as to the final thing : the whole idea of the archive item (which lobbes asked for and i very much doubt he realised at the time what an immense item it is) is to RECONSTRUCT the poorly designed "web" into proper structure. hence the merkle tree discussions and so on. so very much yes, eventually we'll be using a proper republican accessing scheme.
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09:52 mircea_popescu speaking of which, what do you think diana_coman should eucrypt also include an elastic hashing algo on top of keccak and serpent ?
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09:53 mircea_popescu that's the only item conceivably still needed.
~ 33 minutes ~
10:27 mod6 Mornin'
10:27 mod6 TMSR~ : Here's the V 99993 Release email : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-February/000290.html
10:30 mircea_popescu dun dun dun.
10:32 mircea_popescu incidentally mod6 : given teh centrality of teh work he's doing, do you suppose teh foundation could be prevailed upon to give lobbes a grant so he can get himself a shiny dedicated box with pizarro ? could for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785458 work as teh application ?
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10:32 a111 Logged on 2018-02-21 18:48 mircea_popescu: normally i'd have alf explain it to you ; but he's busy. so what i want you to do is write a blog article about "how to use merkle trees to avoid duplicate problem in web page archiving", and then i'll comment on it.
10:33 trinque at first I said to myself "what unix ships without /tmp", and then I get to 0x04 and what can I say. "ship completely useless" indeed.
10:34 mircea_popescu also ben_vulpes : the thinking over at s.mg is that we want a dedicated box for teh server plus a vps for holding the website and such things, so we don't have to eat the whole apache overload on the game server.
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10:35 mircea_popescu trinque is that sun ?
10:36 trinque ah I have no idea if there actually is one without /tmp, but I get where the guy's mistrust comes from.
10:36 mircea_popescu oh oh, mailing list reference
10:36 mircea_popescu i was "wtf, what unix-thing was ever called 0x04?!?"
10:36 trinque heh yup.
10:37 mircea_popescu but yes, good idea to condomwrap shellouts.
10:37 mircea_popescu i'd take it one step further and : mod6 do you think it might be a good idea to actually include hashes ?
10:37 mircea_popescu print a warning, "your X util exists, but its hash differs from what i ran this on, so please test and report" ?
10:38 mircea_popescu then you could just keep a list of these and people ~would know~ when it is useful to report their runs.
10:38 mircea_popescu and obviously calling it "a list" of hashes is just another playful reference to teh prior discussion. lel.
10:39 mircea_popescu but anyway, the idea is to gut the anthill from inside the ants.
10:39 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785670 << This seems like a decent grant to offer. We'll consider.
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10:39 a111 Logged on 2018-02-23 15:32 mircea_popescu: incidentally mod6 : given teh centrality of teh work he's doing, do you suppose teh foundation could be prevailed upon to give lobbes a grant so he can get himself a shiny dedicated box with pizarro ? could for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785458 work as teh application ?
10:42 mod6 mircea_popescu: I see your point re-hashes, might be something to consider in the future. Been avoiding painting myself into a corner with the prototype.
10:42 mircea_popescu how do you mean ?
10:42 mod6 I've gotta go snow blow this 8" of snow. Will think on it a bit.
10:43 mircea_popescu something like "shellouts marked for extinction anyway, no point building on them" ?
10:43 mod6 Well... I'm worried that if start to try to pin down all of the versions and their hashes, it just adds a bunch of complexity.
10:43 mircea_popescu this is true.
10:43 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> something like "shellouts marked for extinction anyway, no point building on them" ? << and this, yes.
10:43 mircea_popescu of course, the converse view (that complexity is alreadyu added the moment you shellout to them) also holds some water.
10:45 mod6 I was thinking lsat night about my version of V in Ada, and am using shellouts there for the gpg related things. even with an integrated FFA, still need to add in an integrated Keccac from s.mg - those two I can work around. Others might be harder than it sounds.
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10:45 mircea_popescu fwiw, i don't think shellouts PER SE are a bad idea, or the wrong thing, or untenable. much like the notion of building houses WITH DOORS isn't in itself problematic. now, what gets in through those holes, well...
10:45 mod6 But, not impossible. I'm not sure, maybe someone else has better ideas how to handle this.
10:45 mod6 Ah, ok.
10:45 mod6 brb, gotta remove the snow here quick.
10:46 mircea_popescu no rush really/
10:59 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/02/us-customs-and-border-patrol-allegedly-has-never-been-able-to-check-signatures-on-passport-rfid-data/ << Qntra - US Customs And Border Patrol Allegedly Has Never Been Able To Check Signatures On Passport RFID Data
10:59 mircea_popescu ehehe
11:03 BingoBoingo One benefit of prolongued Republican exposure: Every now and then you come across a coy newsy thing that dances around a fact, when the fact really should have been the headline.
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11:08 * asciilifeform ate log; has a 10min slot.
11:09 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785695 << i can't think of why it would be wrong to shell-out to ~working~ (sane) util. shellouts only suck if to e.g. kochgpg
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11:09 a111 Logged on 2018-02-23 15:45 mod6: I was thinking lsat night about my version of V in Ada, and am using shellouts there for the gpg related things. even with an integrated FFA, still need to add in an integrated Keccac from s.mg - those two I can work around. Others might be harder than it sounds.
11:10 mircea_popescu quite
11:10 asciilifeform the job of decoding a rsaoid and getting a hash, and the job of hashing a 100GB thing and getting the orig hash to compare to, as part of verifying a sig, are conceptually quite separate. really oughta be separate proggies, per 'unix philosophy' or even any reasonable successor to it
11:11 mircea_popescu the reason they're lib'd together (in say eucrypt) is rather the fact that they require similar standards of care.
11:11 asciilifeform right
11:11 mircea_popescu but otherwise, if unix philosophy were anymore than 15yos notions that "that's it, now i understand women!" they very much would be.
11:11 asciilifeform that part makes sense. but conceptually they're different ops. and could even live inside same binary but invoked variantly to simulate being different ones, a la busybox say.
11:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: worse, 50 y.o. notion.
11:12 mircea_popescu nothing wrong with two separate utilities built on the same lib exposing different edges. "wasteful" but in a veheheheeeery theoretical sense, when compared to 10mb webpages.
11:12 asciilifeform it is difficult to talk about waste, aha, given what is on the box already..
11:13 mircea_popescu ima waste all the dozens of bytes at a time i feel like, holy hell "install disc". TO INSTALL AN X THAT CRASHES ALL CLIENTS.
11:14 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you know what they say, a tendency to bury the lede in journalism is not unlike a tendency to spread legs in a convent : sure signs one does not actually belong there.
11:14 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785703 << some discoveries re the idiocy of the enemy are so astonishingly, riotously vexing of the very imagination, that they are difficult to believe. like the time that an ex-nsa-grunt stuck sharing an oar with asciilifeform on a slavegalley, insisted that usg until late obummer reign did not have a canonical Official implementation of rsa, and that when such was finally ratified , it was from a
11:14 a111 Logged on 2018-02-23 16:03 BingoBoingo: One benefit of prolongued Republican exposure: Every now and then you come across a coy newsy thing that dances around a fact, when the fact really should have been the headline.
11:14 asciilifeform proggy written by an intern
11:15 mircea_popescu in other sad news, i need a new fridge ;/
11:15 asciilifeform nobody swaps compressors in mircea_popescustan ?
11:16 mircea_popescu it's this huge, taller-than-person, double-door purely usian abomination unknown in these lands. i just opened it and the act apparently upsed the clever packing scheme used because i ended up covered in items.
11:16 mircea_popescu i'm seriously considering getting an actual freeze room next place. like a fucking restaurant ;/
11:16 asciilifeform at one time asciilifeform worked in a lab with a freeze room, it was great.
11:16 asciilifeform ( had desk in it, and all )
11:17 * asciilifeform resets clock. bbl.
11:17 mircea_popescu yeah, get a rack with meathooks in there too, will double as punishment room jus' fine
11:25 mircea_popescu anyway, at the risk of boring the more advanced minds, let us take this opportunity to harp on the perfection that is the v model.
11:26 mircea_popescu so suppose today minigame calls eucrypt complete, and proceeds to build upon it. suppose later, for whatever reason, something useful is added to the tree (say the elastic hash item -- as it happens there can be decent arguments had both pro and against including what's really not that cryptographic an useful item).
11:27 mircea_popescu for as long as this tree is built upon, the VERY FACT that it is built upon guarantees minigame that it will ALWAYS be able to build its prerequisites. because in being older they come earlier in the press, so you just stop sooner.
11:28 mircea_popescu meanwhile, if this tree is orphaned for whatever reason (such as someone regrinding some chunk that includes portions downstream from minigame's press point), the prevailing of that regrind is ~actually~ based on proper social behaviours. it must have been supported by minigame too, to have prevailed ; or else minigame's agency must have been indeed so insignificant as to warrant some serious self-examination there.
11:29 mircea_popescu very much no more of this backroom http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-31#1778804
11:29 a111 Logged on 2018-01-31 14:34 mp_en_viaje: so no, protected mode hasn;'t become because it offered. the pantsuit decided it must be, and therefore prevented the non-mongoloid child from offering.
11:33 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/02/chicoms-take-their-anbang/ << Qntra - Chicoms Take Their Anbang
11:35 BingoBoingo ^ In other http://trilema.com/2014/people-us-dollars-are-not-worth-a-fifth-of-a-bitcent-stop-selling/#selection-193.97-193.392
11:39 mircea_popescu heh
11:43 BingoBoingo Anyways it seems like Qntra returned just in time to shit to start happening again. Just now the stakes and pantsuit stanks are higher.
11:47 mircea_popescu cool beans huh
11:51 BingoBoingo Seriously. Who could have know so abjectly little would happen between Summer 2017 and the first half of February 2018
11:51 mircea_popescu who indeed.
11:54 * BingoBoingo baking post for other blawg nao
~ 33 minutes ~
12:28 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785705 << this seems to be a fair point, where one has a "sane" thing to begin with.
12:28 a111 Logged on 2018-02-23 16:09 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785695 << i can't think of why it would be wrong to shell-out to ~working~ (sane) util. shellouts only suck if to e.g. kochgpg
12:30 * mod6 is drinking a bottle of water after snow-removal. am quite stunned it doesn't say "Gluten Free" on the bottle.
~ 36 minutes ~
13:07 mircea_popescu maybe it's chock-fulla gluten.
13:17 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2013-11-30#400024 linkable perhaps
13:17 a111 Logged on 2013-11-30 21:30 mircea_popescu: ;;rate ukto -1 Messy Bitfunder closedown
~ 36 minutes ~
13:53 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: ty linked on the WOT:nonperson text
~ 2 hours 53 minutes ~
16:46 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785664 << can confirm I did not realise immensity at first, but am up for educating myself so that I can realise.
16:46 a111 Logged on 2018-02-23 14:52 mircea_popescu: and as to the final thing : the whole idea of the archive item (which lobbes asked for and i very much doubt he realised at the time what an immense item it is) is to RECONSTRUCT the poorly designed "web" into proper structure. hence the merkle tree discussions and so on. so very much yes, eventually we'll be using a proper republican accessing scheme.
16:46 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785459 << incidentally, this doc has been very useful thus far in illuminating my own naivete. Spent the last coupla days just learning ultra-basics of, e.g. hash preimage, second preimage, and collision resistance. Hell, I even had to look up simple big O notation. I am, however, learning it, at least. "One day at a time"
16:46 a111 Logged on 2018-02-21 18:58 shinohai: https://www.emsec.rub.de/media/crypto/attachments/files/2011/04/becker_1.pdf <<< Paper on subject of merkle trees I found handy lobbes, for your perusal
16:47 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785685 << I am honored to be considered for such a grant. Will continue work to eventually demonstrate grant-worthiness in form of blog post / application.
16:47 a111 Logged on 2018-02-23 15:39 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785670 << This seems like a decent grant to offer. We'll consider.
16:47 * lobbes bbl, meat
~ 4 hours 29 minutes ~
21:17 mod6 !!up orgndnor
21:17 deedbot orgndnor voiced for 30 minutes.
21:19 orgndnor well, i've read a lot of material. most of the available logs, monsiuer p's blogs...
21:20 orgndnor i guess lock down til the fuedalists return
21:20 orgndnor hows the digital beanie babies, bros?
21:22 orgndnor you got a weak jawline herr popescu
21:32 trinque check out the walmart discount persona on this guy
21:32 trinque !!down orgndnor
21:33 mod6 haha.
~ 24 minutes ~
21:57 shinohai >.>
21:59 mircea_popescu what's a weak jewline ?
21:59 mircea_popescu !!up orgndnor
21:59 deedbot orgndnor voiced for 30 minutes.
22:00 mircea_popescu dun tell me it's what squarejaws call normal people.
22:04 orgndnor well, in fact of matter, genetic appropriation might have relevance to intellectual heritage
22:05 mircea_popescu what's that mean ?
22:06 orgndnor your ideas are shitty and obsolete
22:06 mircea_popescu in general or got anything specific ?
22:06 orgndnor i mean, you are pedigreed, wealthy, educated, opinionated and idealistic
22:07 orgndnor respect and all that shit, i assume that involves discipline.
22:08 mircea_popescu you're not making much sense, you know. pick some priors and build a thread.
22:08 orgndnor whats the goal man?
22:08 mircea_popescu !#s causes and purposes
22:08 a111 26 results for "causes and purposes", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=causes%20and%20purposes
22:09 orgndnor yeah. that's exactly why i am here, again.
22:09 orgndnor trilema will never die?
22:10 mircea_popescu i dunno.
22:10 orgndnor what kind of legacy is this?
22:10 mircea_popescu i don't specifically care, either.
22:10 orgndnor i get it if singularity is wsup. maybe you got inside tech knowledge.
22:11 mircea_popescu what's a singularity and what's a wsup ?
22:11 orgndnor you know goddamn well what te intention is with the wsup vernacular
22:11 mircea_popescu try and understand that taking refuge in a string of nouns after having pointed out to you that most people will just discard out of hand strings of epithets as pure painstuitola isn't the best of strategies.
22:11 orgndnor peasant here; walmart discount, yeah
22:12 mircea_popescu mkay.
22:12 orgndnor you're out of touchm sir
22:12 orgndnor out of touch. you have something "interesting
22:12 orgndnor but it'll be wiped into dust soon enough as this all will.
22:13 orgndnor you a native romanian?
22:14 orgndnor dpb told me trilema is anti-usgov.
22:15 orgndnor "disruption of communication"
22:17 trinque !!up BigTexasBingo
22:17 deedbot BigTexasBingo voiced for 30 minutes.
22:17 trinque hola senor boingo
22:17 BigTexasBingo I can't be aresed to get out of bed for doganonor
22:18 orgndnor the way of the future isn't through bitcoin, sirs; blockchain, maybe, but crypto? pipe dream!
22:18 BigTexasBingo And I need an answer on what is wsup, and how does it connect to hair theory.
22:19 orgndnor wsup = hood english transliterates to: "what is up" hence defining a query as to the current subject relevant
22:19 trinque and he thought "this is it; I'll tell them how it really be, and they'll dig"
22:19 orgndnor seeing as how this is the "serene" republic? most?
22:20 orgndnor lo; well.
22:20 orgndnor it don't be like it is but it do
22:20 mod6 herpa derpa
22:20 mircea_popescu trinque the fundamental problem is that it's really unfair you'd listen to one but not another. how could this be! ALL THINGS ARE THE SAME THING etc
22:20 trinque poor thing thinks I'm ingroup signaling with it
22:21 BigTexasBingo Orangeponer: te falta
22:21 orgndnor yeah i guess so
22:22 mircea_popescu just that you can't possibly not be.,
22:22 mircea_popescu the delusion of access is aftert all the fundamental cornerstone of pantsuitism. hence all the inept wank a la lucy, and hence the butthurt gal on day of failure comment section
22:22 orgndnor well, fellows, you are just that much superior; no way i can engage.
22:23 BigTexasBingo Orangeponer: Por favor poner una boligrapho en tu ano y sacar una foto
22:23 mircea_popescu orgndnor did your mommy tell you sarcasm is what cucks do while in the cock cage ?
22:24 orgndnor yes.
22:24 mircea_popescu she had a point.
22:24 orgndnor may the mother forever burn for such transgression.
22:25 orgndnor so. do you guys ever smile?
22:26 BigTexasBingo All the time
22:26 orgndnor excellent excellent
22:27 BigTexasBingo Y vos? Nunca hacer sonrisas con la chicas?
22:27 orgndnor im gay; sir.
22:27 orgndnor as in, homosexual.
22:28 mircea_popescu the funny part isn't that he assumes we're heterosexuals ; but he assumes we know he's male.
22:28 BigTexasBingo And what about your fag hags? Or are you not a cool gay.
22:28 orgndnor uncool gay.
22:28 mircea_popescu is that how incels digest their incelcity these days ?
22:28 orgndnor i like to reside privately and peruse the worlds data to form my own assumptions.
22:29 orgndnor ?? incels
22:29 * mircea_popescu keeps fingers crosed in hope he used neologism correctly.
22:29 orgndnor i don't use facebook or twatter, sir
22:29 BigTexasBingo Then how do you get off Orangeponer
22:29 mircea_popescu i thought this was an 8chan meme
22:31 BigTexasBingo mircea_popescu used correctly. Me voy a dormir nuevamente. Not often a person can catch a live painsuit in the logs these days.
22:31 mircea_popescu sleep tight.
22:31 mircea_popescu and, in your case, dun let the bedbugs byte,
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~
23:51 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785630 << so offending attribute is _Noreturn, which is a c11 feature that was only introduced in 4.7. but! i tested with 4.6.4 on freebsd before release, i now also compiled 4.4.3 and it still works. running cpp-4.4 on the file it looks like something in freebsd headers actually replaces _Noreturn with an __attribute__ call that older gcc's support. with a test file with `void _Noreturn foo() {...}' but without any includes,
23:51 a111 Logged on 2018-02-23 01:20 hanbot: in today's lols, i go to make the new vdiff, i get http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WoPts/?raw=true
23:52 phf and both 4.6 and 4.4 refuse to compile it. a temporary workaround is to compile with `make vdiff -D_Noreturn='
23:54 phf also make vdiff `-D_Noreturn=__attribute__\\\((noreturn\\\))' is even better work around, but the combination of shell/makefile seems to pass the parenthesis through on bash but not on zsh...
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23:56 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785651 << that works for me also, i seem to recall threads where alphabets were discussed and maybe byte order was dismissed, but my memory is vague on subject
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23:56 a111 Logged on 2018-02-23 04:41 mircea_popescu: specifically in our case, dot (2e) comes after dash (2d) ?
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