Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-01-05 | 2018-01-07 → ↓
00:04 asciilifeform apparently the 2016 mircea_popescu-rigormotris-v , as in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589666 , is doomed to come back again and again 4evah
00:04 a111 Logged on 2016-12-23 19:53 asciilifeform: if i had any reason to think that turning v tree into a forest of vertical stakes , exponentially crowded with IDENTICAL payloads that cannot be machine-compared , would make it easier to tell friend from foe and wisdom from folly -- i would agree with mircea_popescu's algo. but i do not.
00:04 asciilifeform *mortis
00:04 asciilifeform who wants to use -- go use. asciilifeform won't touch.
00:05 asciilifeform ... and i recommend then to dispense with the pretense of automation, and simply return to signing tarballs. moar honest, and logically equivalent.
00:12 asciilifeform i'll admit, i very much dungetit. errybody hated 2015-v from day 1 ? wanted the 1kb patches to be 1MB ? or wat.
00:14 asciilifeform thread inescapably reminds asciilifeform of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757902 .
00:14 a111 Logged on 2017-12-24 16:11 asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.'
00:17 asciilifeform and yes it is exactly same thing. mircea_popescu/trinque-style 'single hash' v is moar philosophically-coherent. change 1 byte ? you now live in separate universe. and anyone who wants to use any of yours, must manually create a new universe.
00:18 asciilifeform and now it takes a lifetime to simply juggle the v-mechanics, leaving ~0 time for any of the 'irrelevant' detail like, say, writing ffa.
00:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765888 << fughet, for the final time, 'bazaar', esr ain't here, and aint' gonna be here. and it is wrong to use the whip used for esr, on actual people. until you grasp this, your universe will not contain actual people. to unsheath the esr whip here is a fundamentally solipsistic act.
00:21 a111 Logged on 2018-01-06 04:31 mircea_popescu: but yes, there is no other kind of code besides monolith ; i've had enough "bazaar" for three lifetimes of other people i don't particularly like ; and moreover code ambiguity is fucking nuts.
00:21 asciilifeform and there is no 'ambiguity' in 2015-v , except in so far as incompetent patch authors permit it.
00:22 asciilifeform which to date is never.
00:25 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765881 << sanity looks like this : 'trb since 2015 is made of v. and works. and quite compact. and fundamentally mechanics are correct.'
00:25 a111 Logged on 2018-01-06 04:18 mircea_popescu: this is the discussion, proceed but proceed like sane fucking people, save me blood pressure.
00:25 asciilifeform i'ma leave this apparently immortal zombie thread alone for nao, for sake of own blood pressure.
00:26 * asciilifeform bbl, bed.
~ 46 minutes ~
01:12 mircea_popescu gah
01:16 mircea_popescu im striking all this crap from the record.
01:16 mircea_popescu there's a very strict limit on the complexity of any discussion (which -- correlates to its utility) imposed by the propensity of bad actor to inject nonsense in the conversation.
01:17 mircea_popescu every single fucking line you produced in this attempt to double down on the "lalala i can't hear anything" idiocy is flaming, offensive bullshit.
01:17 mircea_popescu first off, the ENTIRE edifice of sanity you partake in is built ENTIRELY on my writing cheques on other people's time. you're welcome to like or not like this, but it is not open to your review.
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01:18 mircea_popescu second off, this approach where you take some vague fragment of what was said, respin it into some bit of nonsense meaningful to some random other interest in your own head and proceed as if that's what's said is not a game anyone in my experience willingly entertained.
01:19 mircea_popescu either manage to discuss in the sense of, as part of the discussion, or else go discuss in the sense of, talking to yourself.
01:28 mircea_popescu as to the peculiar way in which http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=eucrypt&search= renders the various arrows : it makes the implication that eg ch4 parents are ch3 "as well as ch1" for the coincidental reason that ch1 is included in ch4s parents both "indirectly" via c3 and "directly" in the lateral and unimportant sense that ch4 changes both files which were changed by ch3 and files that weren't changed since c1. this DOES
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01:28 mircea_popescu NOT make ch4 have "two parents" in the sense contemplated here. it only has one, because the ch1 as included by ch3 is necessarily the same as the ch1 as included "directly".
01:29 mircea_popescu if instead of this we look at the other kind of "two parents", whereby ch3 supposedly has both ch2 and mpi_fix_copy as parents, this is specifically the situation discussed by the problem A : that two patches, which ARE STILL IN A CHAIN, nevertheless happen to touch disjunct filesets, and so the question of their order is open (which phf renders "correctly" in the sense of acceptably as he does ; but which is NOT meaningful i
01:29 mircea_popescu n the sense you interpret it).
01:32 mircea_popescu so no, at no fucking point does any patch have anything other than a single parent, which is properly speaking "the previous press", rather than "a random collection of files scattered about". like it or not, files don't have the sort of semantic power whereby a db.cpp "of the right hash" will always be useful when imported into some random project. files are not contextless ; neither because they aren't currently tooled to b
01:32 mircea_popescu e contextless, nor because they could not fucking be so tooled.
01:32 mircea_popescu but in general, this excursion in wank and nonsense could continue ad infinitum and i have reports to write.
~ 54 minutes ~
02:26 danielpbarron !!up otharwa
02:26 deedbot otharwa voiced for 30 minutes.
02:28 mircea_popescu !!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Mx3ZV/?raw=true
02:28 deedbot accepted: 1
02:29 mircea_popescu !!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/D199E/?raw=true
02:29 deedbot accepted: 1
02:43 mircea_popescu !!pay diana_coman .39
02:43 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GE03l/?raw=true
02:45 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-december-2017-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), December 2017 Statement
~ 39 minutes ~
03:24 mircea_popescu !!key ReadErr
03:24 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/7C3D6F997D3D965D5A7C74CE9E4BD72145B88987.asc
~ 4 hours 29 minutes ~
07:54 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765918 << if mircea_popescu sees himself as the 1 fella with a working head, and sole fountain of sanity, and errybody else is a peculiar sort of animated furniture -- i am quite powerless to cure. ( occasionally i'll try curing anyway, as it sometimes seems to work , e.g. seems to be finally cured of 'plain text' after 3+ yrs of 'wie sind sie eigentlich... !' )
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07:54 a111 Logged on 2018-01-06 06:17 mircea_popescu: first off, the ENTIRE edifice of sanity you partake in is built ENTIRELY on my writing cheques on other people's time. you're welcome to like or not like this, but it is not open to your review.
07:55 asciilifeform err, wer
07:56 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765921 << this is entirely troo tho. i simply dun see that it is amenable to a mechanical solution.
07:56 a111 Logged on 2018-01-06 06:28 mircea_popescu: as to the peculiar way in which http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=eucrypt&search= renders the various arrows : it makes the implication that eg ch4 parents are ch3 "as well as ch1" for the coincidental reason that ch1 is included in ch4s parents both "indirectly" via c3 and "directly" in the lateral and unimportant sense that ch4 changes both files which were changed by ch3 and files that weren't changed since c1. this DOES
08:02 asciilifeform i built the orig v with a certain amount of mechanical 'luft' , so that lateral motion of information between brains was possible without total history erasure. however it is entirely true that this makes it possible to turn a vtree into nonsense with a sequence of individually-correct operations. now you can try and take away the luft , 'hash whole previous press' etc. you can already get this effect in existing v by concatenating e
08:02 asciilifeform rrything into 1file. this comes at a cost. apparently this particular electric fence must get pissed on empirically, for the cost to become obvious. let it be pissed on then, i haven't presently anything to add.
08:09 asciilifeform will add, however, that there is not and will never be a fully-automated, mechanical nonsense-preventer. it is a moar fantastic dream than the prime-number generator. it is rather like to ask for piano that cannot play badly.
08:20 asciilifeform https://archive.is/gDphe << meanwhile, in other noose, '...impact on CPU usage of one of our back-end services after a host was patched to address the Meltdown vulnerability...'
~ 2 hours 2 minutes ~
10:22 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
10:22 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16638.36, vol: 13985.49290607 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16683.0, vol: 41480.64559332 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16545.0, vol: 2898.20275182 | Volume-weighted last average: 16665.4505107
10:33 PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765616 << I dun see why patches have to change much? Thinking of the system proposed by mircea_popescu you would have one line change in a "patch version" file, the rest of the patch would be identical to what we have now
10:33 a111 Logged on 2018-01-06 00:00 asciilifeform: i'ma summarize the v thing : if you have a proposed new v algo ; and it would turn my 1kB patches into 1MB, and my readable 3 lines into 100kLoc of ?#@%$*(@%% , and my trivial machine-diff-verifiable changes into 'why dontcha sit for 5 years doing eyeball-powered diff' -- it is NOT an improvement. and i won't touch it. sign it. sign anything made on it. etc
10:37 PeterL if the is are sister patches A and B, and you want to make C using both of them you just regrind B to B', the only difference would be the one patch version file, and that difference would be readily vissible by diffing B and B', then make C ontop of B', works with current v IIUC
10:45 PeterL s/the is/there
10:51 PeterL the problem I see with the current system is that you can make a change in one file which relies on a change in behavior of a function defined in a different file. You end up with two "sister" patches, but the second one is invalid without the first.
10:57 asciilifeform PeterL: as the original ( and afaik to date the only ) perpetrator of this particular warcrime ( the shiva item specifically ) i will say , imho the solution is to Not Do That . rather than to try to make it mechanically impossible. but i'ma not repeat this point further, it dun help .
11:01 PeterL so you want to touch comments in pertinent files after-the-fact, while I am suggesting touching a comment in a central file (README?) each time so that doesn't have to happen
11:03 asciilifeform PeterL: i dun particularly want anything ; i'm quite happy (aside from the can't-move-text-or-rename-files nonsense) with the way classical v works.
11:06 asciilifeform PeterL: so to find how it is broken, you will have to ask the folx who believe that it is broken, when they wake up. or at the very least, to read the log.
11:07 PeterL you don't think it is broken that you were able to commit the "warcrime" so easily?
11:07 asciilifeform nope.
11:08 asciilifeform consider piano. is it necessarily broken, because when a cat walks on the keys, what comes out is not music ?
11:09 PeterL couldn't having a standard of "touch readme file each patch" be a form of "don't do that"?
11:12 asciilifeform PeterL: the result is that the only way for PeterL to use something asciilifeform wrote, is to turn his house into an exact duplicate of asciilifeform's; or alternatively to cut-and-paste, eulora-mpi-style, destroying all record of the copied item's history. but i already said this. try reading log ?
11:14 PeterL isn't that why we have a main-line version of software, so everybody is working on the same thing? does it make sense for everybody to be wroking on something slightly difference and expect my changes to fit your thing?
11:15 PeterL and I don't see it as cut-and paste, you would just be changing the one line in the patch to merge it into your own flow?
11:15 PeterL have a patch-of-the-patch?
11:16 asciilifeform PeterL: why dontcha wait until trinque writes his modified vtron, and see what this looks like with own eyes. because for each line of this unproductive thread that we write, mircea_popescu will take an extra gulp of rum, and i suspect that it is not good for his digestion.
11:16 PeterL lol
11:18 PeterL and how do I know if I take random patch from you and stick it in my different patch tree that it will not break something? wouldn't I want to have the same world as you before adding your patch?
11:18 asciilifeform if you are 'taking random' somethings from somewhere and 'sticking them' blindly somewhere else, the error is YOU
11:19 asciilifeform there is not a mechanical substitute for own brain.
11:19 asciilifeform the onus is on YOU, to READ every single fucking line.
11:20 asciilifeform i'm not even convinced that mircea_popescu is wrong to demand that everyone who wants to use a patch with own universe, oughta rewrite it, painfully with own hands.
11:20 asciilifeform what i'm not convinced of is that the current crop of hands is up to the job. as in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-02#1762384 .
11:20 a111 Logged on 2018-01-02 16:10 mircea_popescu: similarily if you went with machine guns into campus of your choice, the output will be pile of bodies, not red army.
11:21 asciilifeform for instance as we speak nao , asciilifeform is rewriting OWN proggy, for the 4th time. line by line.
11:21 asciilifeform and 5th if you count the paper.
11:23 asciilifeform and the other caveat - if a patch is 500kB, 1) no one will in actuality read it 2) people will lie to themselves and each other re having 'read'.
11:23 asciilifeform and will cut&paste and lie to selves re having 'rewritten'.
11:26 asciilifeform PeterL: didja ever have 1980s b00kz, magazines, with proggies in'em ? asciilifeform did. and learned more from retyping them, than ever learned at uni
11:26 asciilifeform i still have one with little games for c64, written as peek/pokes...
11:26 asciilifeform this was possible partly because 'hands were stronger then' but partly because the proggies were SMALL.
11:29 PeterL yes, I had a couple that included BASIC "games"
11:31 PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765051 << when I was little my dad had (might still have) this nice calculator that asciilifeform would like, it was a scientific calculator, used rpn, was about the size of a mans palm, landscape, solid metale housing
11:31 a111 Logged on 2018-01-05 18:04 asciilifeform: ever owned a rpn calc , ben_vulpes ?
11:32 asciilifeform PeterL: hp16 series ?
11:32 asciilifeform i have one here, 16c
11:32 PeterL I dun remember which
11:32 asciilifeform the one with bin/hex/octal buttons
11:32 asciilifeform http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/HP-16C/HP-16C-M.JPG << subj
11:33 asciilifeform there were several models with this shape, for different professions ( the one for accountants is still sold , even )
11:33 PeterL nah, simmilar layout but about twice as many buttons
11:34 PeterL he is physicist, used it for serious calcs
11:34 asciilifeform possibly one of the contemporary calcs with 'basic' ( e.g. http://calculators.torensma.net/files/images/sharp_el-5400.jpg )
11:34 PeterL anyway, I gotta go, will reaad logs
11:35 asciilifeform PeterL: you may find http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-28#1114226 interesting ( 1 of the early 'how we ended up with v' threads )
11:35 a111 Logged on 2015-04-28 20:06 ascii_field: not the git thing again
11:35 shinohai Heh I had one of those Sharp calcs when I was a kid, loved the thing.
11:39 phf and the log keeps on logging
~ 22 minutes ~
12:01 phf asciilifeform: snarfed, but i think i'm missing ch2 for benvulpes
12:02 asciilifeform hm i dun have it either
12:02 asciilifeform apparently.
12:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765939 << mircea_popescu does not see itself as any such thing, but that's entirely irrelevant. what mircea_popescu sees itself as or doesn't see itself as doesn't enter into it at any point, and you're misstating the problem.
12:11 a111 Logged on 2018-01-06 12:54 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765918 << if mircea_popescu sees himself as the 1 fella with a working head, and sole fountain of sanity, and errybody else is a peculiar sort of animated furniture -- i am quite powerless to cure. ( occasionally i'll try curing anyway, as it sometimes seems to work , e.g. seems to be finally cured of 'plain text' after 3+ yrs of 'wie sind sie eigentlich... !' )
12:11 mircea_popescu mircea_popescu IS, in this context and fundamentally, the item where the buck stops, as the http://btcbase.org/log/2014-01-25#459581 concept ; and consequently #trilema is "a thing such as #trilema", as opposed to "a thing such as pantsuit" BECAUSE #trilema is built on this system as opposed to the "buck never stops" only possible alternative.
12:11 a111 Logged on 2014-01-25 17:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, they only had one guy to answer to. all systems which are build around a spot where the buck stops outperforms systems bereft of such.
12:11 mircea_popescu #trilema in particular is #trilema in particular because the buck stops with mircea_popescu as opposed to any other specific implementation of the same concept, but that's neither here nor there ; moreover you're very much encouraged to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758744 -- a bunch of locals have managed to reach that exalted level where the experience of actually and seriously working the other side of the problem wou
12:11 a111 Logged on 2017-12-26 19:48 mircea_popescu: go make yer castles today, so noobs have a shot at life in 2018
12:11 mircea_popescu ld make them more capable.
12:12 asciilifeform butlol, i ~like~ this about mircea_popescu .
12:12 asciilifeform it's why i work with mircea_popescu and not goatfuckistan academy of sciences.
12:12 mircea_popescu yes, but the sad is that part of that like in your case is built out of insanity.
12:13 asciilifeform now how would i even begin to answer that.
12:14 mircea_popescu sit your ass down for one cottonpicking moment, and consider the fact that you're the fellow who, IN THE SAME DAY, deduced that "nobody reads x" on the basis of "i read it every day and never found x.y". this, somehow, was a rational deduction that passed your filter. THEN you proceeded to threaten its-not-exactly-clear whom with burial, over their threats to steal your printer. and THEN you went off the deep end wrt to some
12:14 mircea_popescu strange contorted whateveritis.
12:14 asciilifeform y'mean printer is safe!?11111
12:14 asciilifeform and the squirrels know?
12:15 mircea_popescu get a grip man, you have this strange reactive mr hyde portion, thoroughly anxiety driven, as if you honestly believe, with the deep fiber of your 5yo being, that whenever something happens chulhu will come fuck your plushies. one can almost measure the velocity of republic on the basis of alf-insanity-odometer as measured from the logs, are you aware ? correlate of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763554 is directly above.
12:15 a111 Logged on 2018-01-04 02:15 mircea_popescu: in other words : republican methodology for improving software, that was slowly swirling towards systematisation down the drain of v turned exponential / made some major breakthroughs in the past six weeks or so.
12:17 asciilifeform well cthulhu did, manner of speaking, fuck the plushies to shreds, and repeatedly. but this happens to ~erryone.
12:18 * asciilifeform wrapping up ch6 , only tuned in with 1 eye currently
12:23 BingoBoingo In other news, last night I had my first experience answering a query in Portuguese and having interpreted it as yet another new accent
12:29 shinohai Nao, really? ^.^
12:34 BingoBoingo Girl inquired whether I was brasilero.
12:38 shinohai "Am I filthy and smell like cannabis?"
12:39 BingoBoingo Nah, it was in the hostel. The safe assumption there is Brasilero until informed otherwise.
12:39 BingoBoingo I was doing my weekly cleaning and oiling of the boots, which likely seemed like a strange custom for Brasileros to have.
12:40 mircea_popescu in other browsergames, dangerous adventure. incredible, someone made gfx mmo right!
12:40 mircea_popescu does anyone want to do this same thing to rogue ? i'd buy.
12:42 mircea_popescu (anyone happen to know daniel mcneely, while we're at it ?)
12:43 mircea_popescu http://armorgames.com/play/17985/dangerous-adventure-2 < item
12:43 shinohai I have seen him on twitter before I left, don't know him exactly though.
12:45 mircea_popescu guy actually gets gaming, which is rare. always was, but these days... fucking especially.
12:46 shinohai I'll log in and send him a DM if you like, invite him here for a chat.
12:47 mircea_popescu ah, i thought you were banned
12:48 shinohai I got my ban reversed, but simply couldn't bring myself to go back to that nonsense, figured I had rottede my mind enough. (Thanks alf)
12:48 mircea_popescu cool then!
12:48 mircea_popescu thanks.
12:49 * shinohai mainly wanted to copy all his slut contacts, only reason for seeking ban overturn
12:52 shinohai twitter recently announced they would not be deleting accounts of world leaders, perhaps you can get ban overturned now mircea_popescu !
12:53 BingoBoingo Nah, they only don't ban insufficient world leaders
12:53 mircea_popescu eh, anyone can set up a rss from here, which is ~the whole thing i'd even consider.
12:54 mircea_popescu aaactualy! how about this as a small job for you shinohai ? set up a bot, rss lines from here to twitter and @, dms from twitter here.
12:55 mircea_popescu just make sure it spits them out when asked and in a paste less it angers ye gods.
12:55 shinohai Interesting idea .... rss feeds themselves are quite easy, but the DM thing caused me grief last time I attempted iirc
12:55 mircea_popescu so without dms then.
12:55 mircea_popescu can't imagine why, it must be just a feed like any other neh ?
12:56 mircea_popescu shinohai you can open it up if it works, charge people to host their twatter, it's something.
12:56 shinohai Yes, but supposedly it is an internal twitter "privacy issue" to share DMS
12:57 mircea_popescu ah. so insta-block anyone who dms you, say so in profile (what, and why -- "do not dm or you will be blocked -- this is because twitter's self-important "privacy" bs) and problem solved.
12:57 shinohai Yeah, I simply turn off DMs there is at least a knob for that.
12:58 mircea_popescu nah, block people like this. let twitter suffer the penalty for their pretend sovereignity.
13:02 shinohai Some rss feeds were on my agenda (ala deedbot !!subscribe), one was /btc/ per http://trilema.com/2015/btc-the-most-recent-8chan-board/ .... but I think that kinda fizzled neh?
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13:15 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-502886.txt
13:21 BingoBoingo !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/cA0Ar/?raw=true
13:21 deedbot accepted: 1
~ 23 minutes ~
13:45 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: oversight
13:45 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-502889.txt
~ 38 minutes ~
14:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1766053 << i dunno, i guess it never gathered any interest.
14:23 a111 Logged on 2018-01-06 18:02 shinohai: Some rss feeds were on my agenda (ala deedbot !!subscribe), one was /btc/ per http://trilema.com/2015/btc-the-most-recent-8chan-board/ .... but I think that kinda fizzled neh?
14:24 shinohai Might do a Eulora promotion or something there this Spring if the btc Gods are kind to me this winter.
14:25 shinohai Surely the autism can't be any higher than the tardstalk experiment.
14:35 BingoBoingo The return of kink place as a "crypto" forum too. Maybe take the temperature of their autism?
14:38 shinohai Might be worthwhile, will add to battle plans this year.
14:38 mircea_popescu if one manages to not expect much, the extramural internet rarely manages to disappoint.
14:40 shinohai aha
14:41 asciilifeform hey mircea_popescu , do you remember whether gpg 1.4 ( virginal ) can be forced to dump hashpayload when verifying sigs ?
14:41 asciilifeform --debug-all dun do it.
14:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't remember that it can be. gotta to the hard way unbase64 etc
14:43 asciilifeform grr annoying.
14:43 mircea_popescu myeah.
14:45 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-502896.txt
~ 43 minutes ~
15:28 mircea_popescu !!rated ReadErr
15:28 deedbot mircea_popescu rated ReadErr 1 at 2018/01/03 04:50:14 << very.legit.person
~ 31 minutes ~
16:00 asciilifeform and nao:
16:00 deedbot http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2105 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 6: Geological RSA.
16:00 asciilifeform ACHTUNG, PANZERS! ^
16:01 asciilifeform ^ replications invited.
16:06 asciilifeform !~later tell phf plox to snarf ch6 , ty
16:06 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
16:08 asciilifeform closedform rsa, folx!111
16:15 mircea_popescu ha!
16:16 asciilifeform this one contains a candy.
16:18 asciilifeform pehbot updated.
~ 52 minutes ~
17:10 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763376 << /me puts on dunce cap
17:10 a111 Logged on 2018-01-03 19:46 asciilifeform: mod6: it's the 'official' answer, linked in ch5.
17:19 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: this is possibly the most fun and educational homework i have ever undertaken
17:20 ben_vulpes bbl, familytime
17:34 mircea_popescu yeah, i'm also quite pleased with the very good style of the items. readily doubles as manual for proper use of english.
17:34 asciilifeform odd, cuz asciilifeform got a distinct feeling that he had made a pudding of it. but happy that mircea_popescu found it edible.
17:35 mircea_popescu perfectly fine.
17:35 mircea_popescu are you allowed to call it "aocp" btw ?
17:36 asciilifeform i dun think anyone will wonder 'what's aocp'
17:36 asciilifeform errybody either has seen , or pretends to have seen, aocp.
17:36 * mircea_popescu got the impression he named it deliberately for the acronymism (a lot more excusable in his case seeing how the uscongresstards hadn't yet driven that joke into the ground) and will sneak out to mix sugar in your fuel tank at night if you dare lop off the the
17:37 asciilifeform ( at one time errybody either read or pretended to have read... )
17:37 * asciilifeform has nfi
17:37 mircea_popescu TAOcp, see.
17:37 asciilifeform if the good doktor writes in and asks, i'ma add a t.
17:37 mircea_popescu works
17:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nice graph but where's the datapoints on it ?
17:39 asciilifeform good point, i'ma link'em:
17:39 mircea_popescu all the crossings ?
17:40 mircea_popescu as a general rule : if you publish a graph, which is continuous, and based on empirical data, do the world a favour and color-dot the datapoints on there.
17:41 mircea_popescu "LetÂ’s verify the RSA seal of ffa_ch6_simplest_rsa.vpatch, the Chapter 6 code itself, using itself". epic.
17:42 asciilifeform updated.
17:42 mircea_popescu lol he patched rsa. ehehehe
17:43 asciilifeform blew most of an hr looking for that dumper ('gotta be in there...')
17:43 asciilifeform naturally koch methodically omitted it
17:43 mircea_popescu heh.
17:44 mircea_popescu anyway, as ben_vulpes says, these are a pleasure.
17:44 asciilifeform yay
17:44 asciilifeform nitpicks/replications/timing data invited.
17:44 asciilifeform pretty curious how this one will look on various iron.
17:45 * mircea_popescu will pay 2 bitcents to the first l2 (not l1) that produces timing data, to the same standard as teh graph, + machine spec.
17:45 asciilifeform nifty, ty mircea_popescu . possibly some of the new blood will finally do a job
17:46 mircea_popescu give noobs a chance!
17:47 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/no-such-labs-snsa-december-2018-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), December 2018 Statement
17:50 asciilifeform the nonsensical padding scheme used by rfc2440/4880/koch is on display , incidentally
17:51 asciilifeform with the 1FFFFF......FFFFFFFblahblah
17:54 shinohai ^ neat asciilifeform ... I'm a bit slower learning these bits (like debug flag 2 didn't work on gpg2 because mpi) but patience.
17:54 asciilifeform shinohai: you can't use gpg2 for this. nor stock gpg1
17:54 asciilifeform the patch is against classical ( mircea_popescuine ) 1.4.10 .
17:54 shinohai I know, I have since converted solely to 1.4.x usage
17:54 shinohai ^ yeah that one
17:57 asciilifeform btw if somebody wants to write a py or pl scriptoid that'll generate the gpg-matching 1ffffff...blah turdoid for a given file , he will get honourable-mention in the next chapter.
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17:57 asciilifeform ( then can dispose of gpg for this, entirely ! )
17:58 mircea_popescu this is a little like being offered mention in the bible. i imagine many at the time thought 40 silvers a better deal, however...
17:58 mircea_popescu history did not end up supporting that view.
17:58 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-22#1247807 << how-to.
17:58 a111 Logged on 2015-08-22 00:10 mircea_popescu: 5.2.3. Version 4 Signature Packet Format
18:00 asciilifeform we're approx. at level of a ( much cleaner ) circa- june 2017 ffa nao.
18:02 asciilifeform libffa ( the actual arithmetism ) is cumulatively ~1900 loc, (80col!11) inclusive of whitespace , banners, and commentolade ; ffacalc apparatus another ~900, ditto.
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18:03 asciilifeform as of ch6, i mean.
18:05 asciilifeform btw i prolly oughta have mentioned, the timing figures (not only in ch6, but all posted to date) presume that ~all~ bounds-checks remain enabled.
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18:05 asciilifeform if one is satisfied with the nonoverflowability of the array refs , under all possible inputs , it is possible to yank'em. and get order-of-magnitude speedup.
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18:07 asciilifeform ffa is possibly one of the few nontrivial proggies where you can actually do this. because there are no data-dependent branches (aside from the 'data' which is the bitness you run under -- this determines the loopness of the loops)
18:08 asciilifeform the only data-dependent branches are in ffa_calc , the calculator.
18:14 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~
19:28 esthlos asciilifeform: ada woes, am I missing a library? http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ndFJX/?raw=true
19:30 asciilifeform esthlos: there are no libraries
19:30 asciilifeform lemme guess, yer on a crapple ??
19:30 esthlos gentoo
19:30 asciilifeform show how you vpressed
19:33 asciilifeform and your complete dir structure and contents
19:33 esthlos uh, just used ./v.pl p press_output ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch, if that's what you mean
19:33 esthlos ah ok
19:33 asciilifeform and which gnat
19:33 asciilifeform gnat --version
19:34 esthlos fucking xclip
19:35 esthlos http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PNSbn/?raw=true
19:36 esthlos well this is fun: gnat: command not found, BUT gprbuild does stuff...
19:36 asciilifeform ahahahahah
19:36 esthlos mebbe its the usual gentoo breaking things into 20 pieces
19:36 asciilifeform you have a bodged install loox like
19:36 esthlos lul
19:37 esthlos https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Ada
19:38 esthlos wait, maybe you're supposed to compile AGAIN after USE=bootstrap compile
19:38 asciilifeform if you dont know how to magick a gentoo gcc-gnat, use adacore's
19:38 esthlos mmk
19:45 * asciilifeform bbl
~ 1 hours 51 minutes ~
21:37 asciilifeform taxdude (92734888@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.146.115.72.136) has joined #trilema << lolwat.
21:46 esthlos sorry to be a bother asciilifeform, but still not working with adacore's gnat: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/NjSGH/?raw=true
21:46 asciilifeform didja clean up ?
21:46 asciilifeform from last time
21:46 esthlos if you don't have any leads i'll mess around i suppose
21:46 esthlos yea, gprclean
21:47 asciilifeform rm -rf the dir and re-press
21:47 esthlos k, standby
21:48 asciilifeform and what it looks like is that your gprbuild, for some odd reason , refuses to recurse. try gprbuild inside libffa , then afterwards gprbuild inside ffademo.
21:49 asciilifeform ( there is no reason why this ought to be necessary, this is the 1st report of this type of barf i've seen , in reading yr+ of various barf reports re gnat )
21:51 asciilifeform presently i suspect that gpl-gnat has succumbed to the work of wreckers. ~100% of the barfology to date, has been from gpl-gnat users with astonishingly variously rotted carcasses in place of a working compiler
21:51 esthlos libffa builds fine on fresh press, but not the demo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/HtlZe/?raw=true
21:51 asciilifeform interesting
21:52 asciilifeform your gprbuild works ~except~ to recurse.
21:52 asciilifeform ^ anybody seen anything of this kind ? mod6 ? phf ? ben_vulpes ?
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21:52 asciilifeform diana_coman ? who else works with gpl-gnat
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21:52 esthlos i got no acl/selinux nonsense or whatever
21:52 mod6 looking..
21:53 mod6 everything pressed ok right esthlos ?
21:54 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis#L161 << the specific item that seems to fail on his box
21:54 esthlos yes mod6
21:57 mod6 ok. i've not seen any error like that for sometime now, definitely predates the recent loper-os posts.
21:58 mod6 i use that adacore version fwiw
22:13 mod6 i did just press & compile up through chapter 6 successfully. so that works at least.
22:15 esthlos i will try on eulora box once its spun up.
~ 1 hours 37 minutes ~
23:53 esthlos issue resolved by moving to 2016 ada
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