Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-03-14 | 2017-03-16 → ↓
00:20 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Apparently we were not first on the heathenwebz, but first outlet of note.
00:20 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: who then
00:21 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Some shittty censorship subreddit
00:21 asciilifeform lul
00:35 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
00:35 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1246.54, vol: 5263.87284892 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1231.999, vol: 5886.66739 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1245.9, vol: 17236.09760773 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1163.594754, vol: 1985.67870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1246.828, vol: 1890.30479738 | Volume-weighted last average: 1238.45673452
00:35 BingoBoingo Dat Stabilibutt
00:36 BingoBoingo On that note Imma sleep. Good night my fellow butt trusted servants of the Republic
~ 2 hours 9 minutes ~
02:46 davout my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD
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02:46 davout how does asciilifeform check his nodes' connected peers?
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02:47 davout is the 'wires' patch still considered useful?
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~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
03:51 jurov re: mircea_popescu 's constellation: since fuckoff.c never reads, it is possible for pipe to get clogged if the other side is sending anything
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03:52 jurov and i doubt very much openssh has any extra code to avoid this situation
~ 32 minutes ~
04:25 davout surprise butseks https://twitter.com/blockchain
04:25 davout http://archive.is/QI0vI
~ 3 hours 38 minutes ~
08:03 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627305 << netstat
08:03 a111 Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: how does asciilifeform check his nodes' connected peers?
08:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627306 << it worx great for zoolag-to-dulap, and ben_vulpes , trinque are also on ssh wires, no bug reports so far
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08:04 a111 Logged on 2017-03-15 06:47 davout: is the 'wires' patch still considered useful?
08:06 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627307 << jurov look how ssh does port forwarding. it doesn't USE the normal shell part for anything. the whole POINT of fuckoff.c is to clog, and work as a 'stopper' for shell access
08:06 a111 Logged on 2017-03-15 07:51 jurov: re: mircea_popescu 's constellation: since fuckoff.c never reads, it is possible for pipe to get clogged if the other side is sending anything
08:09 asciilifeform it's exactly like the 'nologin' util ~except~ that it doesn't hang up.
08:12 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627304 << a box like that will have hour-long blockindexdb blackholes
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08:12 a111 Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD
08:12 asciilifeform ssd is the only complete pill against this, thus far
08:13 asciilifeform ( tx index rather )
~ 28 minutes ~
08:41 mircea_popescu davout somehow the retard's excuse always is "i'm not the only retard btw". which is a shockingly safe bet not to mention kinda begging the question... OF FUCKING COURSE pointless & witless demographically dominate. but somehow this seems novel and refreshing to them.
08:43 mircea_popescu but lulzy twitter account anyway. http://archive.is/QI0vI/76e3921ab5bdd66b6f2aeec94015e880d514d6dc.jpg <-> http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/ etc.
08:43 mircea_popescu pushing dat female alt-reality hard to dat twit audience.
08:44 mircea_popescu jurov no see the point is for it to clog
08:44 mircea_popescu a nm.
08:44 asciilifeform kenya?!!
08:44 mircea_popescu you know ?
08:45 asciilifeform brain-melting.
08:45 mircea_popescu and they never fucking remember the previous set of перерасход план!!111 headlines
08:46 mircea_popescu that was teh problem of the pcus, see, they kept trying to social media at the elite. they should have social media'd at the shrimps.
~ 51 minutes ~
09:37 asciilifeform !!up b41e209ccc264812
09:37 deedbot b41e209ccc264812 voiced for 30 minutes.
09:42 b41e209ccc264812 !#s book
09:42 a111 2824 results for "book", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=book
09:42 asciilifeform what book are you looking for, b41e209ccc264812 ?
09:43 b41e209ccc264812 hi
09:44 b41e209ccc264812 information on books you might be interested in or commented on
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09:44 asciilifeform who might you be, b41e209ccc264812 ?
09:46 b41e209ccc264812 right now still nobody
09:52 mircea_popescu that's an interesting approach.
09:52 mircea_popescu any particular field ?
09:52 pete_dushenski b41e209ccc264812: this is pretty up to date, if angled from my particular lens http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/28/petes-mega-recommended-reading-list/
09:55 b41e209ccc264812 thanks Pete. I am still doing trilema.com for now.
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09:56 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the monkey circus, https://archive.is/ekC3l >> 'responsible disobedience' didjaknow.
09:56 b41e209ccc264812 I have been reading your site/blog too, but will for the time being concentrate on trilema. and worke my way from there
09:56 pete_dushenski np
09:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform whassat ? "being what we'd have called nazi and a threat to our democracy had trump lost" ?
09:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'resistance through culture' (tm) (r)
09:59 mircea_popescu ah ah.
09:59 mircea_popescu well, just as long as they don't have to do what they don't wanna do, i guess.
09:59 b41e209ccc264812 no particular field. I am interested in general as what might be on your reading lists. Some of the concepts and topics you discuss are very interesting. But sometimes I find myself lacking background information and decided to start from somewhere
10:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform do you remember me translating the "feminine exceptionalism" article recently ? i can't fucking find it but im pretty sure i did
10:00 mircea_popescu b41e209ccc264812 may take a while.
10:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://thewhet.net/2017/feminine-exceptionalism << hanbot ?
10:00 b41e209ccc264812 not may it will ;)
10:00 mircea_popescu o she did! excellet! ty.
10:01 mircea_popescu i'm like "i know i fucking read this in english! WTF WHERE IS IT!!!1"
10:01 mircea_popescu anyway, working on "how to be a pimp" guide, secrets revealed.
10:02 pete_dushenski this was in ro, yes ? (i seem to recall poorly translating it at one point)
10:03 pete_dushenski http://archive.is/jJIES << related 'guide' from heathendom
10:03 mircea_popescu yeah
10:03 mircea_popescu you get bonus comparison then. not to mention the end product is half notes (i think this is one of the "absolutely hardest to translate that can still be translated" category)
10:04 pete_dushenski i seem to be a sucker for those :/
10:04 pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/20/how-to-be-a-pimp-a-simple-yet-understandable-and-still-exhaustive-guide-translated/ <<
10:11 pete_dushenski !!up b41e209ccc264812
10:11 deedbot b41e209ccc264812 voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 48 minutes ~
10:59 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/how-to-be-a-pimp-the-simple-comprehensible-and-exhaustive-guide/ << Trilema - How to be a pimp - the simple, comprehensible and exhaustive guide
~ 37 minutes ~
11:37 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski http://trilema.com/2010/bai-mi-e-lene/ << tried that one ?
11:51 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627313 <<< cool, i'll send you a ssh key
11:51 a111 Logged on 2017-03-15 12:04 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627306 << it worx great for zoolag-to-dulap, and ben_vulpes , trinque are also on ssh wires, no bug reports so far
11:51 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627318 <<< what are those?
11:51 a111 Logged on 2017-03-15 12:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627304 << a box like that will have hour-long blockindexdb blackholes
11:51 asciilifeform davout: ideally this would take some other form than everybody hanging off my particular node
11:52 asciilifeform davout: see logs. it's when the thing grinds to a halt while verifying block, while waiting for 1,000,001 random disk writes to complete
11:52 davout you don't mean reads? when verifying individual txes?
11:54 asciilifeform davout: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000255.html and http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000256.html and past 2 wks of logs.
11:54 asciilifeform when ~saving a block~
11:56 davout yeah i followed all that, didn't realize it was the ~writes~ clogging up everything
11:56 asciilifeform the interesting bit is that the problem vanishes on ssd
11:57 asciilifeform if it weren't for the screaming insanity of bdb, you could theoretically 'elevator algorithm' the disk accesses
11:57 asciilifeform and get ~same result
11:57 davout seems quite curious, it'd intuitively seem like the block would be written in one single pass, and then the db might spend time on reads to connect transactions to their parents, but writes... wtf
11:57 asciilifeform davout: the tx index is the issue
11:57 asciilifeform not the block writing
11:57 davout aha
11:58 davout that makes sense
11:58 davout we'll see how that goes i guess, i was kinda wondering whether i should get a ssd-equipped server anyway
11:59 mircea_popescu for bitcoin, yes. and mind that it's >128gb already.
11:59 davout the whole chain?
11:59 mircea_popescu yeah
11:59 davout du -sh ~/.trb reports 131gb
12:00 mircea_popescu aha
12:00 asciilifeform also there'll be the debug log
12:00 davout can live on /dev/null for all i care, unless i'm specifically looking into something
12:01 mircea_popescu yes but if you are then it can't unlive on dev/null
12:02 davout so far it blocks for a while on the 'getinfo' call, but seems to still be up to date
12:02 davout is it 457370
12:03 davout *it is
12:11 asciilifeform davout: if you have a box with a ssd ~and~ traditional disks, put the debug log on the traditional
12:11 asciilifeform (it dun need fast random access)
12:11 davout yeah obviously :)
12:12 asciilifeform also if you have a consistent empty 4GB of memory, you can apply my cache patch (not yet an official vpatch, but it is a 1liner, ups bdb's cache to max)
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12:12 asciilifeform for roughly 2x speedup
12:12 asciilifeform (i recommend a box with at least 16GB installed, to use this)
12:12 davout aha, thanks for the tip, i do have 16gb on the hdd-only box
12:13 asciilifeform the 'odometer' patch will show the change in timing
12:13 asciilifeform davout, mircea_popescu : probably the bdb cache thing oughta become a command line knob.
12:14 asciilifeform ( i'd much rather that bdb simply went away. but this may take a while. )
12:16 mircea_popescu honestly, it should just be a patch. there's no serious reason to allow the usage of trb on tiny boxes
12:17 mircea_popescu max the cache and that's that.
12:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: zoolag, the more reliable of my 2 nodez, has 4GB total !
12:17 asciilifeform believe or not.
12:17 asciilifeform nearly 0 blackhole, and 0 OOM events.
12:17 mircea_popescu hm
12:17 asciilifeform aha.
12:17 asciilifeform thing is the size of a grown man's fist, also.
12:17 asciilifeform ssd box.
12:18 mircea_popescu well, i guess that's a serious reason then
12:18 asciilifeform that thing also runs various housekeeping systems, aside from trb. like a champ.
12:19 asciilifeform while we're on subj:
12:20 asciilifeform in other noose, 'nqb' now eats, parses, blocks and tx, correctly, and HEAPLESSly
12:21 Framedragger ^ that's pretty kewl.
12:21 mircea_popescu nice
12:22 asciilifeform after it also demonstrates the indexing algo from last week, i'ma vgenesisate it and post.
12:22 asciilifeform anybody other than asciilifeform have a working gnat toolchain yet ?
12:23 asciilifeform ( it slowly dawned on me, that a proper block eater is perhaps half of an entire btctron... )
12:24 asciilifeform ^ the other half, the hard half, is largely the actual script execution / cryptolade.
12:24 asciilifeform which i don't have, and have no intention of attempting in near future, hands are quite full.
12:24 Framedragger yeah i wanted to ask how you managed to implement script stuff in this amount of time but i guess no need to parse scripts to have definitive view of all tx
12:25 asciilifeform Framedragger: i specifically did not, the scripts are left alone, the blocks are verified only in the very limited sense of mechanical format (lengths do not fandango out of buffer limits, etc)
12:25 Framedragger ahh, okok.
12:26 asciilifeform idea is simply to demonstrate sane storage and indexing.
12:26 asciilifeform and that a btctron can run in a constant, defined memory footprint
12:26 Framedragger yeah! i imagine it's gonna be tremendous and yuge :) (but seriously, compared to userspace fs....)
12:27 Framedragger did you already have a chance to check if there are any tx collisions in the 32 bit address scheme? just curious
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12:27 mircea_popescu it's not a minor point given that no bitcoin implementation is currently known that DOES in fact run within a defined memory footprint.
12:28 Framedragger yeah this is a big wtf.
12:28 asciilifeform Framedragger: nope. ben_vulpes is actually running the churn, on his (working) btctron, i deliberately left it to him
12:28 mircea_popescu tho trb was made to adhere pretty closely.
12:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 90% of the retardation of trb is that objects live in heap and are all part of a massive ball of yarn, linked to one another
12:28 asciilifeform hence the 'wait for locks to expire!' idiocies
12:29 asciilifeform and inability to remove anything procedurally from mempool, say
12:29 mircea_popescu yep
12:30 asciilifeform i will note that in domains where The Thing Must Work, Motherfuckers, e.g., spacecraft, (traditionally) heaps are forbidden.
12:30 mircea_popescu a recurring observation.
12:30 asciilifeform it is tremendously painful, at first glance, e.g, 'wanna parse blocks?' 'fine, determine now the maximal space that will EVER be occupied by the process, and put it Right Here Forever'
12:31 asciilifeform then you sit for three days and finally realize that never do you need more than 2MB for it.
12:32 asciilifeform (i.e. ~any~ proper, 1MB, bitcoin block can be made to sit down in no more than a 2MB-sized bottle such that indexing of its components becomes an O(1) operation.)
12:33 asciilifeform i will leave the algo an exercise for readers, who can then see if they came up with same one, after i post mine.
12:34 Framedragger (also recursion forbidden, too, e.g. (in jpl c handbook) - all about predictable execution..)
12:34 asciilifeform so to round off the thread: blocks can be stored in 'fast' form, and reconstituted as-needed for transmission to peers; or alternatively, with 2x the disk cost, can be stored in both forms (i prefer the latter, with a background thread that randomly spot-checks the correspondence, which oughta be an iron 1:1 , everywhere )
12:35 asciilifeform if it isn't obvious : 'fast form' is simply a SANE tabularization, removing the idiot varints
12:36 asciilifeform (shitoshi's varints require you to parse WHOLE FUCKING TX just to find, e.g., 1 particular output)
12:36 asciilifeform and to parse WHOLE FUCKING BLOCK to find one particular tx, etc.
12:37 asciilifeform so instead of varints, we 'pascalize' the data structure, and have set of indices at the start to each of the components and its length.
12:37 asciilifeform and then likewise same thing is done to blocks.
12:38 asciilifeform finding a given input or output of a given tx, becomes O(1), theoretically.
12:40 Framedragger nice. so you have local pointers within given data structure (e.g. block) referring to starts of whatever-relevant-stuff? (i didn't even know that satoshi's code used variable length ints)
12:41 asciilifeform Framedragger: not pointers in the c sense, but in effect yes.
12:41 Framedragger local offsets i guess.
12:43 asciilifeform and yes the tard used variably-sized numerals ( http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h?v=makefiles#0193 ) for ~everything !
12:43 asciilifeform and not even bignum representation, where'd it begin to make a vague sort of sense,
12:44 asciilifeform but for integers from 8 to 64 bit !
12:44 asciilifeform as a result, parsing ANY of the traditional bitcoin serializations, is O(N) operation !
12:45 Framedragger wow
12:47 Framedragger at first i thought "well for small ints it's just an additional nSize check which is retarted but whatever", but he writes the bytes himself regardless of int size and i'm sure compiler etc. won't be able to optimise much there
12:48 Framedragger wait he uses boost right, doesn't boost have its own 'multiprecision' thingie a la bignum?
12:48 Framedragger wtf :D
12:48 asciilifeform not related.
12:48 Framedragger ah okok.
12:50 Framedragger (hm, 'cpp_int' (part of boost's multiprecision module) is allegedly an arbitrary precision int lib, but whatever / maybe not applicable)
12:50 asciilifeform we're talking about small integers (max is 64bit) strictly.
12:50 asciilifeform as in, ~counts~ of inputs/outputs in a tx; counts of tx in blocks
12:51 Framedragger oh hah ok.. and he felt compelled to use his custom thing for those, too. ok lol
12:51 asciilifeform they save ~no space, but effectively prevent you from operating in anything other than O(N)
12:51 asciilifeform Framedragger: bignums are stored in openssl's liquishit format, unrelated.
12:52 Framedragger myeah you can't randomly access things in the middle, etc. lol.
12:52 Framedragger aha ok.
~ 27 minutes ~
13:19 mircea_popescu it's basically a hobble. from which we discern satoshi, whether married or not, certainly saw no fundamental problem with marriage as a mental construction / social narrative.
13:20 asciilifeform lolwut
13:20 mircea_popescu individualized integers!
13:21 asciilifeform not even very individual, there are exactly 4 sizes
13:21 asciilifeform but it's enough so as to never know where n+2nd element of a sequence is, without eating the n+1st !
13:21 mircea_popescu yep. just like marriage.
13:21 mircea_popescu poor man's adventure.
13:24 asciilifeform great simulator of cassette tape, on modern comp.
13:25 asciilifeform want to load anything ? gotta wind through whole thing up to that place.
13:38 danielpbarron how is that like marriage?
13:39 asciilifeform danielpbarron: i was speaking of the varint thing
13:39 asciilifeform danielpbarron: mircea_popescu seems to use 'marriage' to refer to just about any poorly thought-through, short-sighted plan
13:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform danielpbarron the arrangement a) between one man and one woman which b) presumes to be wilfully entered by both and c) claims to resolve all the possible problems they may encounter is, necessarily, a casette tape.
13:43 danielpbarron so the heathen interpretation, not the Biblical.
13:43 mircea_popescu well the biblical interpretation is neither clear nor practically relevant, seeing how heathens exist but biblical marriages are necessarily livresque.
13:44 danielpbarron i know of a few
13:44 mircea_popescu but anyway, my point was that there's actual effectual activity, and then there's the specific sort of pointless makework which self-referentially tends to capture people.
13:45 mircea_popescu ie, man enjoys a woman specifically ; satoshi wishes to make bitcoin. that's all well and good. then man proceeds to marry her and satoshi proceeds to design a scheme whereby everyhing's suddenly and for no reason o(n).
13:45 mircea_popescu the resemblance is striking, to me. but then again mebbe im weird.
13:45 asciilifeform bad engineering ALWAYS eventually takes the form of a glue trap, where 'entry costs a buck; exit -- two!'
13:46 mircea_popescu and bad living, also.
13:46 asciilifeform sorta like a kid falling behind in school
13:46 asciilifeform as per old mircea_popescu essay
13:46 mircea_popescu aha.
13:46 danielpbarron if a man enjoys a woman he absolutely should marry her
13:46 * trinque always wonders why people want to involve the govt in the thing
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13:47 trinque danielpbarron: towards purpose?
13:47 danielpbarron marry just means: won't cast away
13:47 mircea_popescu if she knows she can't be cast away that fucks up her incentive structure.
13:47 mircea_popescu no, that stays on the table. let her behave herself.
13:48 danielpbarron it is not casting away if you give an order and she refuses to follow. can still beat her/ restrain etc
13:48 mircea_popescu teh cast away device is immensely valuable : to the loving woman it is truly the bottom, worst possible penalty ; to the unloving a welcome release.
13:48 danielpbarron idk why fucking other men has to be on the table
13:49 mircea_popescu what, you're gonna beat her to death ? meh.
13:49 trinque man, if I think back on all the women I cast away, and they were all in this room
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13:49 trinque jesus christ, indeed
13:49 mircea_popescu what'd happen ?
13:49 mircea_popescu danielpbarron well cast away dun mean you also take her back does it.
13:49 danielpbarron it would be better she die than lie with another for sure
13:50 mircea_popescu why. maybe they fit better.
13:50 danielpbarron too late
13:50 mircea_popescu for whom ?
13:50 danielpbarron everyone
13:51 mircea_popescu suppose you're born and a perfect and ideal bride is destined to you. suppose 15 years later a black immigrant from the arab nation of africa gets her drunk at a party and fucks her. is it now too late for you ?
13:51 danielpbarron !~bible mat 19:6
13:51 jhvh1 danielpbarron: [KJV] Matthew 19:6 :: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
13:51 mircea_popescu yes, but you've not even met her yet.
13:52 danielpbarron there is no soul mate
13:52 mircea_popescu so mating is not pre-ordained ?
13:52 danielpbarron all that matters is women not be passed around like harlots
13:52 mircea_popescu hm.
13:53 danielpbarron her getting drunk fucking nigger was pre-ordained
13:53 mircea_popescu suppose you meet this girl that loves you and get married and then have sex on wedding night and she's allergic to your sperm (this happens, yes), goes into anaphylactic shock an' dies. was this pre-ordained ?
13:54 danielpbarron yes
13:54 mircea_popescu therefore her marrying you was preordained ?
13:54 danielpbarron and lucky her she's not going to hell because i wouldn't have married a heathen
13:54 danielpbarron God causes all things, even evil
13:55 danielpbarron !~bible isa 45:7
13:55 jhvh1 danielpbarron: [KJV] Isaiah 45:7 :: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
13:56 mircea_popescu it'd seem to me that in the continuum between "whenever a man is born a woman is allocated him, soulmate" and "let them be passed around and let the dogs fuck them too, what, it's a muscle. not like they're made of soap" the specific "there's no soulmate but there shouldn't be gynorgies either" spot you select is hard to support in any fundamental way.
13:57 danielpbarron wha? i'm not saying a man can't have multiple wives. if the first sucks get another, just don't ditch the first
13:58 danielpbarron and this is a better incetive structure for preventing the bad relationship in the first place
13:58 mircea_popescu i wonder.
13:58 danielpbarron ie: careful who you humble, you'll be stuck with her
13:59 trinque sounds more like it causes timidity in the male, than building judgment
14:00 trinque most basic drive there is, ever present, DO NOT FUCK IT UP EVER NOT ONCE
14:00 danielpbarron timid males go to hell
14:00 trinque while they haven't yet, they're a nuisance to the living
14:01 mircea_popescu i dunno, why would the woman be a drag in the first place ? old loves dun bother mp any. heck, they're a substantial part of his imperial majesty.
14:02 danielpbarron can be a drag if one believes Bible and other doesn't
14:03 mircea_popescu only if one believes and is wrong while the other doesn't and is right. otherwise... what's the problem, truth prevails eventually.
14:04 danielpbarron sure, if he was saved after the marriage. otherwise it's dubious to say he believes if he was willing to lay with a heathen
14:05 trinque what if he only does it standing up?
14:05 danielpbarron let the truth prevail first, then lay
14:06 danielpbarron i'm not convinced it's possible to convert girls with cock
14:06 mircea_popescu yeah, that's one of the weirdest things. they mostly did it standing (like, for the record, it's normal!) and yet the expressions all reference the decaying mores of the empire.
14:18 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/genetics-proposes-the-environment-disposes/ << Trilema - Genetics proposes, the environment disposes.
~ 40 minutes ~
14:59 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627505 << relevant lulzy article: https://qntm.org/gay
14:59 a111 Logged on 2017-03-15 17:46 trinque always wonders why people want to involve the govt in the thing
15:00 trinque "eye-poppingly sexist" << wtf I am not reading this
15:01 danielpbarron lool "y2gay"
15:02 Framedragger like any other place, this one's got their trigger words, too. careful not to read too much literature in case you segfault, trinque
15:02 Framedragger like, that *the* thing you picked out. great, success
15:02 Framedragger that's*
15:03 Framedragger spoiler, it gets into nice examples of graph theory. but yeah, not the $badword!!1
15:03 * Framedragger proposes #trilema-safespace ; no badwords!
15:04 trinque what, we jettisoned a quip guy and now you're it?
15:04 danielpbarron he's on the right track with the eye-poppingly sexist scheme. it should, however, be the woman who stores the husband id, that way many women can be paired to one man
15:04 asciilifeform 'There are a lot of people in the world who actually think like this. This is their for-real, no-joking conception of "marriage". They do not grasp that men and women are interchangeable, as a result of which homosexual marriages create repulsive integrity problems in their heads. "But if they're both guys, which one is the wife? Does not compute!" How sad.'
15:04 trinque the article signs off with a turd about open minds and flexible worldviews and so on
15:04 asciilifeform dunno, genuine libertard, or parody
15:04 asciilifeform but snoar.
15:04 Framedragger danielpbarron: iirc there's a scheme down there which allows for this, etc.
15:04 trinque rejecting something on the basis of politics is entirely reasonable
15:05 Framedragger you do understand that you can use words descriptively and not normatively, right?
15:05 Framedragger anyway, it's true, not the most interesting piece; was relevant and lulzy enough for me; guess i'm timid
15:05 trinque I'm not engaging in the sidestepping game with you.
15:05 asciilifeform Framedragger: 'repulsive' and 'are interchangeable' seem pretty normative.
15:05 asciilifeform declarations, of as-if-fact.
15:06 Framedragger myeah, that'd do it.
15:06 danielpbarron Framedragger, i liked it. made me chuckle
15:08 * Framedragger secretly likes the guy's scifi. but, yah, point taken
15:08 trinque anyhow the 2% in there about "you will have to edit your schema" sure
15:09 mircea_popescu lel.
15:09 mircea_popescu i have nfi why the muricans imagine "everything" is up for their review.
15:09 mircea_popescu nothing is up for their review.
15:09 mircea_popescu not the meaning of words, not all, not any ; not the substance of human relations nor the organising of human activity nor anything else.
15:10 Framedragger (british, but the point stands...)
15:10 mircea_popescu no such thing as british.
15:10 Framedragger ah.
15:10 mircea_popescu that died at a time orwell was a young man. this dude's murican from the island.
15:12 mircea_popescu danielpbarron what do you do when women start declaring your id ? note that this isn't an idle consideration, but quite the fundamental problem of harem societies. clemens has some notes about it re life in the mormon lands, for instance. it's everywhere.
15:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform cog wants to be cog, cockroach thinks "o, man doesn't feel interchangeable, how sad!!1". pretty lulzy.
15:13 danielpbarron heh if we're gonna get technical, perhaps she declares instead a signed thing produced by me
15:13 mircea_popescu so then we just store your list of signeds.
15:14 mircea_popescu but as a general principle of db design : the property is stored with its creator, not with its object.
15:14 mircea_popescu thus, if you decide which women are your wives, "wife" is a field of you-entry in db.
15:15 danielpbarron what would that be? a concatonated string of woman ids?
15:16 mircea_popescu i guess ? no good way to apply the eyepoppingly socialist db model to the fundamentally republican reality of domestic disturbances.
15:19 danielpbarron hey i agree. i don't think it needs to be a database or state issue. can be between husband and father of girl. if there's a dispute later, let them testify accordingly
15:19 mircea_popescu to whom ?
15:19 danielpbarron judges
15:19 mircea_popescu who the fuck are gonna be the judges.
15:20 danielpbarron if it's up to me, old men who believe the Bible
15:20 mircea_popescu suppose #dbp ends up with a million souls hanging off it. are you going to now hear all this crap ? 100/day ? really ?
15:21 danielpbarron that would be a nice problem to have
15:21 trinque old men are bad enough without turning them into grandmothers-to-all
15:21 mircea_popescu perhaps because you've never had it. but from experience, being the judge of a troop of idiots is the worst fucking horror of a turd to fall on your head. and this holds even if you have life and death powers and the ability to construct the law andf its application however you wish through simple declaration.
15:22 danielpbarron i doubt grandmothers would rule that adulterers should be stoned to death
15:22 trinque man old women love nothing more than gossiping about so and so's young whore daughter
15:23 trinque theirs stopped working!
15:23 mircea_popescu it may even be the original driver of language, the old women's need to do something aboutthe young sluts.
15:25 mircea_popescu danielpbarron the overarching concern isn't so much what to do about x as what to do so all the fanciule don't start pressuring them out of society.
15:26 danielpbarron pressuring who? the judges?
15:27 mircea_popescu them, the old women.
15:28 danielpbarron according to the Bible, we get just as you describe. this world is no good and everyone seeks evil continuously
15:28 mircea_popescu in other utter lulz : Books by Proust, Marcel (sorted by popularity) Swann's Way Marcel Proust 1002 downloads ; Du côté de chez Swann (French) Marcel Proust 400 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 97 downloads ; Sodome et Gomorrhe - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 71 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs — Troisième partie (French) Marcel Pro
15:28 mircea_popescu ust 62 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 59 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs — Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 52 downloads ; Sodome et Gomorrhe - Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 48 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 44 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Troisième partie (French) Marcel Proust 35 downl
15:28 mircea_popescu oads
15:29 danielpbarron so what happens? we get exactly what can be seen all around today
15:29 mircea_popescu this, from gutenberg. poor guy can't match trilema's day with his opera omnia.
15:33 danielpbarron on this topic i side with the muslims. not the so-called christians
15:33 mircea_popescu about what, judges ? closeted homosexuals ? old books ?
15:34 danielpbarron marriage
15:34 danielpbarron one man, multiple women ; execute adulterers and homosexuals
15:36 mircea_popescu why do you care enough about what other people do to want to kill them anyway. you mean like, adulterers you find in your own closet ?
15:37 danielpbarron they defile the land and the country
15:38 mircea_popescu hm.
15:38 mircea_popescu how about unqualified github contributors ?
15:38 danielpbarron i don't want to go looking for them but they certainly shouldn't be permitted to flaunt it in public
15:39 trinque "shouldn't be permitted" is what everybody asking somebody else for a mega-state says
15:39 danielpbarron as is the case in the US and europe
15:39 trinque whether the mega-state religion is communism or this
15:39 mircea_popescu wait, so they actually befouling land and country you want to punish only if they do it in your sight ; but the fuckers you want to punish in principle ?
15:39 mircea_popescu maybe they do it in their own closed and ain't botherin' you none.
15:40 trinque thought jesus was supposed to have hung out with whores and so on, wasn't apparently befouled by the act
15:40 trinque this sounds more like fundamentalist judiasm
15:40 danielpbarron the Bible says it defiles. i doubt they could do it in private for long without it somehow manifesting in public
15:40 mircea_popescu who, magdalene ?
15:41 * ben_vulpes mutters something about join table for wives and husbands
15:41 trinque many to many eh? gettin wild
15:41 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes laugh if you will but the issue is not entirely uninteresting... working on marriage for eulora. though there - one will only be able top marry npcs. even if they start as pcs - fine method for a player to suicide an avatar, this.
15:42 danielpbarron Jesus died for the sins of everyone. that doesn't mean sin isn't sin anymore
15:42 mircea_popescu trinque predictably, that objection runs into the son of god doctrine. dood also went to hell, and crashed the gates.
15:42 ben_vulpes trinque: could enforce uniqueness in the second column
15:42 trinque something something "he who is blameless cast the first stone"
15:43 trinque anyhow the whole thing's inconsistent so anybody can pluck anything
15:43 mircea_popescu but inconsistent where ?
15:44 trinque doesn't the guy or one of his progeny also say "wages of sin is death"
15:45 mircea_popescu possibly.
15:45 trinque so I can see where danielpbarron would say kill 'em
15:45 trinque or I can decide I'm a softy and "turn the other cheek"
15:45 mircea_popescu well is it a sin or an offense ?
15:45 danielpbarron it may be the case that nobody is qualified to do the execution, but execution is still the right thing. Jesus told that whore to "sin no more"
15:46 mircea_popescu who, magdalene ?
15:47 danielpbarron i don't know if this one was named. the thing to which trinque is referring "cast first stone"
15:47 mircea_popescu ah yes. but i'd rather discuss the whore he wilfully or accidentally omitted to address as such.
15:47 mircea_popescu you know, exactly in the manner of tolerating whorishness generally.
15:48 danielpbarron if she repents then she is no longer a whore
15:48 trinque ah I just didn't remember her name
15:48 mircea_popescu no record she did.
15:48 danielpbarron who, mary?
15:48 mircea_popescu mary magdalene, yes.
15:48 danielpbarron she did i believe
15:48 mircea_popescu ah, but she did in general terms. that counts ?
15:49 mircea_popescu "sorry for being bad master" ?
15:49 danielpbarron she anointed Christ before his execution
15:49 mircea_popescu yes, but would you propose "she sucked the judges off, all of them" as a fine defense in your above case for whoredom ?
15:49 danielpbarron what??
15:49 mircea_popescu well... "she anointed". what if she did.
15:51 danielpbarron eh it may be the case she didn't believe. i don't suppose it matters. the fact remains a whore generally may repent and no longer be a whore, although it would still be appropriate to execute her
15:51 mircea_popescu but apparently a whore may also ambiguously pass for random follower and it wouldn't matter.
15:51 mircea_popescu which yes, matches my own experience.
15:51 danielpbarron judas was a follower
15:52 mircea_popescu he was, at that.
15:52 mircea_popescu pretty great problem in chrisology.
15:52 mircea_popescu or how do you say this in english, hristology ?
15:53 danielpbarron !~bible mat 7:21
15:53 jhvh1 danielpbarron: [KJV] Matthew 7:21 :: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
15:54 mircea_popescu ah, mind that the eventual fate of all these is of no interest in this discussion. we were just going on about the "should be" and "shouldn't be". if mary doesn't have to publicly admit she was a whore, and if nobody has to point out to her, and if she may vaguely repent without mentioning, or maybe not, and it makes no difference, then why not random hussy aged 17 in 2017.
15:55 mircea_popescu i will excuse carol of "cool it, carol" fame with the exact same rod.
15:55 mircea_popescu (note that she also does repent, in the same approximate manner.)
15:56 danielpbarron what matters is that if she repents she will stop doing the bad thing! this can be plainly observed
15:56 mircea_popescu well i how can it be plainly observed when you didn't observe the other deeds any ; nor did the observation get recorded.
15:57 danielpbarron ask her! everyone i talk to here in connecticut freely admits they are a whore/adulterer
15:57 mircea_popescu suppose she has more sense than that.
15:59 danielpbarron how could she unless she knew the penalty was death? they freely admit this because there is no consequence.
15:59 mircea_popescu might also be because they're utterly unsophisticated.
15:59 danielpbarron that too
15:59 mircea_popescu this is generally how the urban poor end up in jail.
15:59 mircea_popescu incidentally dorky black men get sent up for "drugs" now. it could readily be dorky white girls for "whoredom".
16:00 mircea_popescu poor people are very unpeople-like.
16:00 danielpbarron how woukd my conversation go with the rich whore?
16:01 mircea_popescu try it ?
16:01 mircea_popescu but not so far off from how the conversation goes with me ; after all i taught most of them har har.
16:01 danielpbarron i don't know any apparently. or rather i haven't met a whore i couldn't get to admit it
16:02 mircea_popescu how much is the business hotel only call girl in connecticut ? 1k a night by now ? 2 ?
16:02 danielpbarron no clue
16:02 danielpbarron i don't even tinder
16:02 mircea_popescu so identify one, run into her "accidentally" in town, ask her out and then ask her what she does for a living.
16:03 mircea_popescu (and if she says "i'm a high end whore" fucking marry her, because srsly.)
16:07 danielpbarron i don't follow. because she was honest? perhaps i should clarify, i use whore to mean a woman who has sex with multiple men. harlot is a better word (friend of the world) but both are bad things: whether she is paid is irrelevant
16:08 mircea_popescu pretty much. she was honest ~with you~. dun expect she does this generally, was the subtext.
16:08 mircea_popescu ie, the portion of the observation germane to the topic.
16:09 danielpbarron if she repented of being a whore and really came to be saved then yeah i could see marrying her, maybe. but the onus would be on her to do that. I'm better off single, it's her best interest to marry
16:10 mircea_popescu this is certainly a matter of perspective.
16:10 mircea_popescu after all, she pulls 1k/night.
16:11 danielpbarron not anymore (she repented!)
16:11 danielpbarron 1k/night at expense of eternal soul, so..
16:12 danielpbarron in eulora terms this would be something like "oh hey this is really profitable to do but then my whole account gets nuked"
16:14 mircea_popescu well, she can repent if you want her to, but she still has a town house, eighty lbs of jewelry and about half a million in cash in strongboxes all over mexico.
16:15 danielpbarron !~bible mark 10:25
16:15 jhvh1 danielpbarron: [KJV] Mark 10:25 :: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
16:16 mircea_popescu yes, but the discussion was who's better off how / interests etc.
16:16 danielpbarron ah i see what you mean, suppose despite all that comfort she still repents, and now she also has all this stuff. so she dosen't need me in the financial sense. but maybe she wants kids
16:17 mircea_popescu $20 at the sperm bank.
16:17 danielpbarron and a father to raise them
16:17 mircea_popescu well, maybe she can't find any proper men, so she just picks up an orphan kid and raises that.
16:18 danielpbarron hey if she's saved i don't care what else she does. adopts a bunch of orphans, wonderful!
16:19 mircea_popescu kinda what angelina jolie tried, anyway.
16:19 danielpbarron well she's not saved. she can't do anything good.
16:19 mircea_popescu but the point remains, notwithstanding how poorly it worked for that particular idiot, that there's a lot worse fates than being a 30something successful repented whore.
16:20 danielpbarron a repented whore would be ahead of 99.9999% of the world that's for sure
16:20 danielpbarron !~bible isa 64:6
16:20 jhvh1 danielpbarron: [KJV] Isaiah 64:6 :: But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
16:21 danielpbarron "filthy rags" better translated as "rags of menstruation"
16:21 mircea_popescu so then it's not even a bad strategy for the 16yo brighter-than-average highschool girl, http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/
16:21 danielpbarron ie: good deeds done by people who don't believe is seen as disgusting to God
16:21 mircea_popescu as per aquinas, "let me repent and let it be tomorrow", she'll do jus' fine.
16:22 trinque !~bible mark 7:15
16:22 jhvh1 trinque: [KJV] Mark 7:15 :: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16:22 trinque I guess that checks out lol
16:22 danielpbarron could die at any moment. i'd say it's not worth the risk, but most people go to hell so it's anybody's guess
16:22 mircea_popescu whoa. faggotry is ok per mark ?!
16:22 trinque aha
16:22 danielpbarron context is re: food, ie: kosher law
16:22 mircea_popescu so he can eat the cocks ?
16:22 danielpbarron or no, washing hands rather
16:22 trinque says nothing
16:22 trinque not no food
16:22 mircea_popescu ah so just handjobs
16:23 mircea_popescu i wonder if "things which come out of him" includes spit.
16:24 mircea_popescu what if one pops his own zits and eats the proceeds ?
16:24 danielpbarron it means the things he says because they come from the heart
16:24 danielpbarron words
16:25 mircea_popescu hm
16:25 danielpbarron the things you eat get destroyed in the stomach, but the things you say, they come from you, and if they are bad things that you say, it means there is something bad in you
16:26 mircea_popescu better hope people use proper languages rather than whatever barbar.jpg to speak.
16:28 mircea_popescu danielpbarron that theory suffers from not having ever eaten corn kernels neh ?
16:30 danielpbarron heh
16:44 mircea_popescu incidentally, am i the only one wondering why the everloving fuck the ustards keep pretending sex is something dubious and hard to distinguish etc, when every single fucking cell of the organism carries, very strictly, the code on it ? it's either xx or xy, stop bitching and whining, there's NO ambiguity. none.
16:44 mircea_popescu "oh but mp, what about mongoloids". yeah, really.
16:46 diana_coman everything is hard to distinguish when one has only vague approximations instead of definitions (because clear definitions are too harsh; and not inclusive enough! etc)
16:47 mircea_popescu a right there is that.
~ 2 hours 8 minutes ~
18:56 trinque !!up BU_lulz
18:56 deedbot BU_lulz voiced for 30 minutes.
18:56 trinque what lulz do you bring, BU_lulz ?
18:57 BU_lulz just getting lots of lulz from the BU community lately
18:57 trinque well, do share.
18:58 BU_lulz just the fact that their was a bug in their protocol that brought down 90% of their nodes
18:58 BU_lulz i know it's petty, but I do love seeing shillz get rekt
18:58 BU_lulz not to say there aren't segwit shillz
18:58 trinque http://qntra.net/2017/03/bitcoin-altcoin-unlimited-experiences-drop-in-node-count-due-to-remote-crash-vulnerability/ << aha, davout qntra'd that one already
18:58 BU_lulz but it is def a different calliber of insanity
18:59 BU_lulz yeah not new news :)
18:59 BU_lulz really just wanted to listen to what the trilema folks were talking about
18:59 BU_lulz easier to connect and eavesdrop then click through the logs
19:00 mircea_popescu "Bitcoin Unlimited is a full Bitcoin client and is an alternative to the original Bitcoin Core client. It offers high levels of security, privacy, and stability." quoth the roger ver mfa.
19:01 BU_lulz i really want roger ver to go away like gavin
19:01 asciilifeform was this the one that downloaded blacklist from mike hearn's tor onion ? or was that a previous idiocy
19:01 BU_lulz each statement he makes outcringes the last
19:01 mircea_popescu i think that was "bitcoin classic"
19:04 BU_lulz u guys think the usg is pumping alt coins lately?
19:04 BU_lulz like I have no faith in ethereum, dash, etc but I can't help but feel printed money is being thrown at them
19:05 BU_lulz i've been tempted to try to make a penny off the pumps, but the principled side of me has kept me from stooping to that level of derp
19:07 trinque the printed money can dribble from whichever tentacle, eh?
19:07 mircea_popescu what isn't paper money being thrown at ?
19:08 BU_lulz good point, that's probably mostly what is giving BTC it's current market cap
19:08 trinque anyhow, who are you, BU_lulz ?
19:10 BU_lulz meh, just some dude who knows one of the regulars here through a friend
19:10 BU_lulz not trying to get deep into the WOT or anything
19:10 BU_lulz just felt like dropping in
19:11 ben_vulpes !!down BU_lulz
19:11 ben_vulpes get in the wot or get right the fuck out
19:11 trinque haw
19:13 ben_vulpes has the stones to "make a vpn" whatever that means to the average bu tard, but not to make a key and get in the wot
19:13 ben_vulpes subhuman trash
19:19 asciilifeform cheapo, single-barreled ninjashotgun.
19:24 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: you mean robert viragh ?
19:24 asciilifeform in the generic.
19:24 asciilifeform it's a type of vermin.
19:34 mircea_popescu dude (mullvad)'s been following since forever.
19:35 asciilifeform !#s mullvad
19:35 a111 2 results for "mullvad", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mullvad
19:35 mircea_popescu Jan 25 02:21:50 * novusordo (~wut@dns.mullvad.net) has joined #bitcoin-otc << that's feb 2012.
19:35 asciilifeform ain't that a vpn co ?
19:36 mircea_popescu ah is it ?
19:36 asciilifeform https://www.mullvad.net >> 'World-class, online privacy ...'
19:36 asciilifeform as in fact ben_vulpes noticed earlier.
19:36 mircea_popescu i just thought it was one dude with an obscure web service. who knows.
19:37 asciilifeform no indication that he is anything other than a subscriber
19:37 asciilifeform to 'mullvad'
19:37 mircea_popescu fair point.
19:37 mircea_popescu the allotment of identity to the peons is a largely irrelevant if entirely complex business.
19:38 asciilifeform it's not even like memory will leak if you forget to free() them.
19:38 asciilifeform (or world will melt if you do it twice)
19:44 ben_vulpes reject the wot, even humorously, at your own risk.
19:45 ben_vulpes question will now float, "which 'regular' didn't beat elementary manners into his wannabe vassals?"
19:45 danielpbarron hah i was thinking "hope it's not me he's referring to"
19:45 mircea_popescu lol
19:45 mircea_popescu i wouldn't put too much stock.
19:46 asciilifeform in unrelated noose, 'nqb' reads & parses a full 1MB block, with 2218 tx, and recreates it from fast-form, again to disk, in 0.123 sec. on a 3GHz opteron cum ssd.
↖
19:46 mircea_popescu ah that's not bad at all.
19:46 ben_vulpes next time someone says "i know a feller", next question is "which feller?"
19:46 mircea_popescu "oh nobody in particular"
19:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well that's merely the mechanical process, no tx index queries, no scriptolade use.
19:47 mircea_popescu aha.
19:47 mircea_popescu still.
19:47 ben_vulpes i know in point of fact that i've demonstrated how candidates for voice are to introduce themselves before.
19:47 asciilifeform fuzzed it, in various ways, ada bounds checking worx like a champ in all cases
19:48 asciilifeform (every variable knows what its expected range is, and said bounds are checked on any assignment)
19:48 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i dunno bout you, but erry time i went after hours to nominally girls only student whore warehouse facilities i was there to "visit my cousin" and when crashing a party it'd be a case of "you've got my sister in there, now do i have to get a cop."
19:48 mircea_popescu relations are cheap in anonworld.
19:49 ben_vulpes these ebon pillars don't like that.
19:49 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: wtf is an ebon pillar
19:49 ben_vulpes columns variously ionic and dorian, made of ebony
19:49 mircea_popescu i suspect it's a reference ot that most best read trilema piece, teh la zuleika
19:50 ben_vulpes ^
19:50 mircea_popescu which incidentally - has been read TODAY by more people than read ALL of marcel proust's works since the making of gutenberg.org
↖
19:50 ben_vulpes epic pile btw, i don't believe for a second 4chan has worked through it yet.
19:51 * asciilifeform still cannot help but think that a zuleika oughta be an obsolete musical instrument, something like a cross between a zurna and a жалейка
19:51 mircea_popescu i suppose if author of finnigan's wake inquires, i've never read it now.
19:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform maybe a digeridoo
19:52 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes had you read the original ?
19:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 0.067 sec. btw is the avg, 0.123 was fluke.
19:55 * danielpbarron is on the last leg of that story
19:55 * mircea_popescu is taking a grim sort of pleasure in the observation that it takes about as long to read as it took to write.
19:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sorta like the block!111
19:56 mircea_popescu lol for srs.
~ 2 hours 39 minutes ~
22:35 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: it was a pleasure doing business http://www.contravex.com/pete-takes-home-bacon/
22:36 pete_dushenski http://archive.is/AjuTa#selection-431.0-431.167
22:38 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: that's a new one. not too long either if i skip translating the 102 comments
~ 31 minutes ~
23:10 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: ack
~ 39 minutes ~
23:49 ben_vulpes http://i.imgur.com/9DS6FnX.gifv
23:51 pete_dushenski tough kid
23:52 ben_vulpes methinks most of the crying was cut out
23:53 pete_dushenski quite possibru
23:55 pete_dushenski speaking of verbotten ajakalates, d-tx jessica farrar has just proposed a draft law that would see "emissions outside of a woman's vagina, or created outside of a health or medical facility" to carry a $100 fine
↖
23:57 trinque chick's trolling re: abortions
23:57 pete_dushenski at this point, it's hard to tell if the dems know that they're muslims or if they still think "acting doesn't count"
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