Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-06-11 | 2016-06-13 → ↓
09:44 deedbot [Qntra] Suspected Islamist Shoots Up Florida Gay Bar - http://qntra.net/2016/06/suspected-islamist-shoots-up-florida-gay-bar/
~ 32 minutes ~
10:16 mircea_popescu in other news, "whosoever withdraws from stupidity thereby becomes its avant-garde."
10:29 BingoBoingo Updates, 50 deaths and 53 injuries http://qntra.net/2016/06/suspected-islamist-shoots-up-florida-gay-bar/
10:31 shinohai O.o
10:32 shinohai Fred Phelps laughs in hell.
10:38 thestringpuller well his hot granddaughter is out fucking and having a good time now that her brainwashing is gone
10:46 shinohai For BingoBoingo http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/11/us/jamie-shupe-non-binary/
10:55 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 50 deaths and 53 injuries << take a guess, 1 bloke with pea shooter, or squad of police with schmeissers on full auto
~ 15 minutes ~
11:11 BingoBoingo both!
11:12 BingoBoingo But yes. Not the question we deserve, but the one we need.
11:24 jurov ;;later tell BingoBoingo yes i'll gladly help anyone to dispose of their shares ;)
11:24 gribble The operation succeeded.
11:27 BingoBoingo ;;later tell mod6 ^
11:27 gribble The operation succeeded.
11:41 BingoBoingo Update 2: Mr. Snackbar identified http://qntra.net/2016/06/suspected-islamist-shoots-up-florida-gay-bar/
11:43 BingoBoingo brb
11:55 thestringpuller so this is real: https://ethereumpyramid.com/
11:55 thestringpuller and people are actually buying into it
11:55 mircea_popescu not substantially different from ethereum itselfd.
11:55 shinohai Scammers love their scams.
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
13:02 Framedragger vc: thanks for the cockbox! how are things?
13:02 Framedragger by which i mean, any crazy customer support / admin stories thus far? :)
13:10 mod6 thanks BingoBoingo
13:11 mod6 Cool jurov, when they are distrbuted (month end?), just hit me up.
13:11 thestringpuller usually its the week after the statement on trilema confirming share count
13:12 thestringpuller so first/second week of july
13:12 jurov mod6 Qntra shares? When did you receive any?
13:13 mod6 i haven't, yet. but i wrote an article. so i presume they will give me a few.
13:13 mod6 but i'd like to send the proceeds to The Bitcoin Foundation
13:13 mod6 so just take your coinbr fee and forward the rest to the btcf addy if that's ok?
13:14 jurov sorry, i can't. they are meant to be used strictly for hookers and blow.
13:14 mod6 or, if you'd rather i signed a statement saying such, i can do that when they get distributed.
13:14 shinohai ^
13:14 mod6 lol
13:14 mod6 i suppose that can be arranged.
13:15 mod6 anyway, thanks, we'll talk 'round month end then to get it figured out.
13:15 shinohai Bad news is all the good blow vendors are on tor
13:16 vc Framedragger: things have been great, users have been fine save for the billions of them that messed up their SSH key
13:16 jurov yes, your shares are tied to your gpg fingerprint, so pls make a signed request to onetime/automatic delivery toi certain coinbr account
13:16 vc I'm going to have to put like a tutorial on the checkout page
13:17 vc I'm currently planning on getting 144GB memory and 6 more SSDs
13:17 vc which will put my maximum slot count at 140
13:18 vc and if the 140 slots fill up I will purchase the other 144GB memory which is the last possible upgrade for the server
13:25 mod6 jurov: what if one doens't have a coinbr account?
13:26 jurov you can have them sent to mpex account, too
13:27 jurov :D
13:31 mod6 ok. we'll work something out. no problemo.
13:31 jurov or just say you want to donate them to foundation and we'll work it out
13:32 mod6 cool. thanks man.
13:35 Framedragger vc: nice, man
13:35 Framedragger hehe yeah, ssh keys, welcome to idiotland i guess
13:46 Framedragger vc: just fyi, there appears to be a ~10k packets / second limit somewhere upstream, are you aware of anything of the kind? i'm just running some self-tests (using a program which has its own TCP stack, i.e. no use of kernel networking / sockets). same tests produce at least 10 times as much elsewhere. cpu not the bottleneck. just wondering what it could be
13:48 Framedragger note, stricly-localhost test gives me much more than that. but test with bogus mac address (so it doesn't hit the actual internet) gives only 10k pps, which is real low. some hardware firewall doing excessive ratelimiting?
13:48 vc Framedragger: I have definitely seen waaaaaaay over 10k packets / s on these interfaces so that's not the problem
13:48 vc there is an outbound cap of 100Mbit/s on the interfaces
13:49 Framedragger hmm. yeah self-test which doesn't leave localhost gives me ~ 3M pps or so
13:49 vc what size of packets?
13:49 Framedragger uh need to check. but it's just a TCP SYN!
13:50 Framedragger 41 bytes i think
13:50 Framedragger i mean it's clearly not bw cap
13:51 vc are you doing tests right now?
13:51 Framedragger vnstat gives me maybe 5 mbps total
13:51 Framedragger vc: yeah just relaunched. vm031
13:51 asciilifeform reddit, apparently, censoring all string matches of mr. jihad's name.
13:52 Framedragger with botched mac addr so shouldnt even reach internet, i think theyre getting dropped at some local router
13:52 vc yes, that would be aftables
13:52 vc I filter mac addresses...
13:52 Framedragger ahhh. not a bad thing hm
13:52 vc arptables*
13:53 vc and some other one
13:53 Framedragger vc: thanks for clarifying!
13:53 vc idk
13:53 vc yep
13:53 Framedragger right i'll stop diddling with mac addresses and do some actual packet-sending work heh
13:59 shinohai asciilifeform: muh censorship!
14:01 Framedragger vc: yep, all good otherwise !
~ 32 minutes ~
14:33 mircea_popescu mod6 end of month
14:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what sense does that make anyway ?
↖
14:35 mod6 mircea_popescu: cool, good dela.
14:35 mod6 *deal
14:36 mircea_popescu Framedragger are you having fun ? :D
14:37 mircea_popescu and in other news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/ee36bedf0fca8c0d4ef63d66ba3acf26/tumblr_o0x4tbbm0z1ud7ml4o1_400.gif
14:40 Framedragger mircea_popescu: yeah afk shit is calming down, so getting back to variations packet madness :D
14:40 Framedragger and yeah that's hot
14:40 Framedragger *variations of
14:41 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-12#1481284 << i have deeply nfi
14:41 a111 Logged on 2016-06-12 18:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what sense does that make anyway ?
14:45 Framedragger (gun resume and finish ipv4 open ssh port scans tonight with vc's node (vc: it's randomized ip range scan and only 30 kpackets/s, before you ask), and then deploy ~10 vps nodes for ssh key extraction, feeding port-22-open-list from the former into the latter.)
14:48 thestringpuller "Without any regulation you can't stop a bad actor before they start. They only need to scam people once to make a lot of money.
14:48 thestringpuller "
14:48 thestringpuller ^- sometimes i wonder if people even deserve Bitcoin
14:49 vc Framedragger: I'm cool with port scans, neither me nor my parent host cares
14:53 Framedragger vc: cool, and i remember you saying this the first time otherwise wouldn't have done it, just wanted to let you know that these particular scans won't (*completely*) trash the reputation of the currently assigned ipv4 :)
14:54 Framedragger thestringpuller: "do people deserve bitcoin?" is this still a non-rhetorical question? :)
15:00 thestringpuller Framedragger: The mass adoption crowd is much like the Bernie Sanders crowd.
15:01 thestringpuller They are actually one in the same. Socialist by any other name. For fuck's sake.
15:01 thestringpuller I refuse to live in a world where my hard work is plundered by mr. millenial who was sucking on his momma's tit until 22.
15:02 shinohai Better kill yourself then.
15:04 thestringpuller $b 2
15:10 Framedragger i would maintain that the socialist set and the doesnt-deserve-bitcoin set are not necessarily mutually exclusive; at least this cannot be known a priori. mp et al. would argue that it can; so be it
15:10 Framedragger oh shit i meant
15:11 Framedragger the mapping between the sets is not necessarily bijective, i.e. one-to-one
15:11 Framedragger but to show this / give examples of some differences.. eh fuck that, too much effort
15:13 Framedragger > kakobrekla: and if someone is missing mps clothless pic, please enjoy https://bou.si/4c/1465748545019.png
15:13 * Framedragger smiles
15:15 shinohai ./send kakobrekla ( ::: [ ] ::: )
15:16 thestringpuller Framedragger: I was being hyperbolic. My point was more that the mass adoption crowd is too stupid to regulate themselves, and as such would like to punish all of Bitcoin.
15:17 thestringpuller All mass adoption will cause is more people getting scammed.
15:17 thestringpuller Maybe more teen mothers.
~ 18 minutes ~
15:36 deedbot [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 2654284789 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Agora One; Agora Two; Owned One; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F0E003608EA39E53320224486E8BE078D66D2E7CC62438F4A42878C73BF67A3C
~ 1 hours 16 minutes ~
16:52 mircea_popescu Framedragger a) what "et al" ; b) no i wouldn't.
~ 2 hours 7 minutes ~
19:00 Framedragger thestringpuller: yes, fair enough
19:00 Framedragger mircea_popescu: apologies - too much presumption on my part, then!
19:10 mircea_popescu aite.
19:13 Framedragger in other news, am casually looking into perfect forward secrecy in *asynchronous* communications. this *may* turn out to be relevant for gossipd enthusiasts and connoisseurs in the long run, too. the most simple way appears to be for nodes to generate a bunch of "pre-keys" (halves of ephemeral key exchange), and store/cache them somewhere (obvs signed by their permanent identity key), a la https://whispersystems.org/blog/asynchronous-sec
19:14 Framedragger this way one can (in principle) achieve pfs for communications between otherwise offline nodes
19:17 Framedragger "this one weird trick" kind of thing, not too smart, but possibly just smart enough.
19:20 Framedragger (incidentally, author has a nice writing voice, https://moxie.org/stories.html / moxie.org)
19:24 asciilifeform framedragger: moxie is usg stooge.
19:24 asciilifeform $s marlinspike
19:24 a111 7 results for "marlinspike", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=marlinspike
19:26 Framedragger asciilifeform: bullshit.
19:27 Framedragger logs are no help btw
19:27 Framedragger but i'm too tired now.
19:29 Framedragger asciilifeform: btw the prekey idea is sound, with or without ad hominem
~ 23 minutes ~
19:53 asciilifeform Framedragger: as reflected in the log search, marlinspike is usg asset and infamous pusher of crypto snakeoil.
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19:53 asciilifeform i will countenance any pretense to the contrary.
19:53 asciilifeform *will NOT
19:54 asciilifeform moxie m pushes shitphones. and ssl monkey tricks. and 'pgp is obsolete'.
↖
19:54 asciilifeform fuck him - with red hot poker.
19:56 asciilifeform but yes, gossip node can issue as many ephemeral keys as it wants - this is ~obvious~
19:57 asciilifeform and certainly not invented by usg stooge, it was in my comment series under mircea_popescu's original gossipd article.
~ 16 minutes ~
20:13 mircea_popescu not entirely clear what the benefit of ~signing~ said ephemeral keys is however
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20:13 mircea_popescu the concepts are contradictory.
20:15 mircea_popescu but in udder news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/853673f068be74532c6099a53ce5436a/tumblr_o0qvfr9GWQ1usvymao1_500.gif
20:19 Framedragger concepts not contradictory, you use one as session key, the other to link sessions in terms of authorship / who participates in said sessions. unless you meant something more technical/particular mircea_popescu
20:20 mircea_popescu if it's signed it's not ephemeral.
20:20 Framedragger asciilifeform: won't argue as it's obvious that it'd be fruitless. i can certainly see the viewpoint. "what he pushes == snakeoil" is a strong accusation tho. however, i'm not prepared to provide defence till i'm old, weary, and wise (or at least till i'm old)
20:20 mircea_popescu the authority of an ephemeral key must be a) contextual and b) not reconstructable.
20:21 Framedragger ephermeral keys are usually used for encryption; i don't think the functions of permanent vs. ephermeral keys are mutually exclusive at all
20:21 mircea_popescu huh ?
20:21 Framedragger all i meant was that you e.g. have an otr fingerprint - which represents a permanent keypair. but your otr client establishes ephemeral key per each session
20:22 mircea_popescu otr is ~broken, i wouldn't want it as an example for functional pfs.
20:22 Framedragger however if you want to be sure that it was bob who constructed this session that you're now participating in - your old friend bob will have to show that he owns the private key
20:22 Framedragger right, the example, however, only probed a general scheme, and no protocol particulars. but fair enough
20:23 mircea_popescu anyway, to understand each other : if M are messages signed by K[eys], then if on the basis of M2 you can prove that indeed K1 was used for M1 then your system is not pfs, and K aren't ephemeral.
↖
20:23 Framedragger i think i expressed myself badly, though.
20:24 Framedragger hm, see i put more weight on the "can't encrypt if permanent key is compromised" part in pfs
20:24 Framedragger *decrypt
20:24 mircea_popescu there's one definition of pfs, and that is, later keys being compromised does not show anything about earlier keys.
20:24 mircea_popescu ~anything~.
20:24 Framedragger butbut, yes of course, hence the whole idea of otr actually changing session key constantly, for plausible deniability and all that (and won't argue that it's not broken)
20:25 Framedragger right.
20:25 mircea_popescu sure, but merely "chaning" the key is not good enough. if it signs it... they're there.
20:25 Framedragger right, so your idea of pfs is perfect unlinkability, so to speak. of course this makes sense
20:26 mircea_popescu not exactly trivial to implement, obv.
20:26 Framedragger how do you ensure that it's still bob you're talking to, or do you not care (on some technical or literal level)
20:26 mircea_popescu you ever got to read the many discussions re gossipd in log ? this part is there.
20:27 Framedragger ..getting to it. lots of stupid jokes to sift through. but thanks, will continue
20:27 mircea_popescu (if you mean, in gossipd. if you mean in general... ouf, complicated issue.)
20:27 Framedragger both, i suppose, or either would be interesting. gossipd probably provides decent constraints and framework for thought, so might as well stick to that
20:28 Framedragger (i hope you lost any hope in ip address in packet as a form of identity/proof/whatnot, though!)
20:28 Framedragger (i mean, ip address as it appears in an IP header)
20:29 mircea_popescu Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467075 one of the more recent installments.
20:29 a111 Logged on 2016-05-16 13:52 mircea_popescu: actually, let me go into detail, why the hell not. ("because derps stalk the logs for examples of how x doesn't understand y" "and ?" "myeah.")
20:29 Framedragger thanks
20:31 mircea_popescu anyway, i don't think ips were ever seriously considered as identity.
20:32 Framedragger (aha, "actual order" of messages is not one of the requirements; interesting; i suppose folks who maintain that breaking order integrity == breaking s3curity!! are kind of derpy anyway, in the sense that if you have something critical to communicate, you'll find other means to derive integrity, etc.)
20:33 mircea_popescu more importantly, "order" is not clearly a physical entity. all you have is observers.
20:34 Framedragger very quantum :)
20:35 mircea_popescu can't be helped.
20:36 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481352 << ephemeral key is when only the participants can reconstruct the chain.
20:36 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 00:23 mircea_popescu: anyway, to understand each other : if M are messages signed by K[eys], then if on the basis of M2 you can prove that indeed K1 was used for M1 then your system is not pfs, and K aren't ephemeral.
20:36 asciilifeform i.e. nonpublic pubkey.
20:39 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481339 << a correct gossipd node processed NOT ONE BYTE unless it is covered by a signature traceable to a known peer.
↖
20:39 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 00:13 mircea_popescu: not entirely clear what the benefit of ~signing~ said ephemeral keys is however
20:39 asciilifeform any other behaviour - invitation to shitflood.
20:39 Framedragger i'll sketch mp's scheme on a whiteboard tomorrow or thereabouts, so i can say that i get the picture. makes sense overall, in terms of no chans as such, etc etc.
20:40 Framedragger pfs is unclear but then who had it easy with worthwhile things anyway
20:41 asciilifeform Framedragger: i understand it perfectly. but the baroque marlinspiked version is satanic and deliberately overcomplicated.
20:41 asciilifeform like all shitgnomatic productions.
20:41 Framedragger didn't think it was overcomplicated tbh, i mean, not this particular part anyway
20:42 Framedragger DH exchange gets temporally split, so to speak
20:42 Framedragger not saying that it wouldn't be super easy to fuck it up via all sorts of baroque side channels and whatnot
20:42 Framedragger and that his implementation isn't fucked
20:45 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481381 << would the scheme of gossipd in your mind as it currently stands allow for signatures by a non-permanent gpg key (by something akin to ephemeral key)? identity (of communicating party) integrity would be within the decrypted contents; but not ascertainable by message header (here's gpg id 0xbabe)
20:45 a111 Logged on 2016-06-13 00:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481339 << a correct gossipd node processed NOT ONE BYTE unless it is covered by a signature traceable to a known peer.
20:45 asciilifeform i did say 'traceable to'
20:46 Framedragger right, which allows for transitivity of one sort or another, i suppose. fair enough
20:46 asciilifeform but ephemeral keys are necessary because there is NO reason why usg should know which lord is speaking to which.
20:48 asciilifeform (pubkeys, in all known asymmetric systems, can be inferred from M bytes of traffic. so NO pubkey should ever transmit a burst of >=M.)
20:48 Framedragger yeah.
20:50 thestringpuller node died and starts by being stuck
20:55 mircea_popescu prolly should also be pointed out that atm the design is yet the consistency of pudding.
21:00 * Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for gossipd without much effort at all
↖ ↖
21:00 Framedragger 'cause it's mad, i tell you
21:02 mircea_popescu not such a bad idea.
21:03 Framedragger may even be possible to piggyback / re-use https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot ; putting this for later reconsideration; off to sleep, later!
21:14 ben_vulpes 20-something, "put wifi in the cardano!"
21:15 ben_vulpes 2016, "put moxie marlinspike in gossipd!"
21:16 ben_vulpes 2020 something something egalitarian treatment of UCI nodes
~ 51 minutes ~
22:08 phf asciilifeform: you were right, four quarters is a large shtf project, using hippie and music festivals to find their operations. i can see why orlol would like it
~ 22 minutes ~
22:30 mircea_popescu ;;ud shtf
22:30 gribble Error: We broke The Google!
22:34 phf shit hits the fan, preparedness crowd term for hypothetical future civilization break down
22:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'shit hit the fan'
22:34 asciilifeform phf has it
22:35 mircea_popescu that's what i thought but it dun parse.
22:35 mircea_popescu to fund their ops ?
22:37 phf well, they've been buying up land around where they are with loans, and paying it off from donations and festivals which they write off as "religious ceremonies".
22:40 mircea_popescu i suppose this is as good a plan as it gets in the context.
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