Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-05-31 | 2016-06-02 → ↓
00:05 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo props for being so on your game lately. every time i've seen something remotely bitcoin-related elsewhere on the net lately, i see that qntra already had it covered. liking the terseness atm too.
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
01:14 BingoBoingo ty
~ 23 minutes ~
01:37 deedbot [Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) May 2016 Report - http://qntra.net/2016/06/qntra-s-qntr-may-2016-report/
01:39 deedbot [Qntra] Social Media Warrior Follows LinkedIn Hack With MySpace Hack - http://qntra.net/2016/06/social-media-warrior-follows-linkedin-hack-with-myspace-hack/
~ 34 minutes ~
02:13 pete_dushenski http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/05/paris-is-banning-cars-built-before-1997/484895/ << or why davout ~really~ left the stinky tourist traps behind.
02:14 pete_dushenski and with that, i bid ye all bon nuit.
~ 41 minutes ~
02:55 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
02:55 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 533.31, vol: 12418.16647760 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 517.222, vol: 10519.99461 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 532.26, vol: 49760.11601346 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 455.0, vol: 1.82928901 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 543.232375, vol: 63239.94720000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 531.0, vol: 3002.40188254 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 517.127325, vol: 97.8838307 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
02:56 BingoBoingo ;;more
02:56 gribble 536.167687602
02:59 BingoBoingo RIP Spread
~ 3 hours 13 minutes ~
06:13 * mircea_popescu waves
06:13 mircea_popescu lol gribble deluges.
06:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform looking good.
06:16 mircea_popescu maybe credits should be its own entry on the top bar ? minor point tho
06:21 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473683 << this is a deeply idiotic measurement. what you can't find me is a nigger that's happy with his life. that's the fucking criteria.
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06:21 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 15:50 asciilifeform: for instance, even mircea_popescu does not seem to be able to find me a phuctor box that will stay up
06:22 mircea_popescu that obama is going around in cheap suits and gets more crowded at dinner than your average 1916 workman is the fucking criteria.
06:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473695 << hey, word.
06:23 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 15:56 diana_coman: life costs quite a lot in itself and the more elaborate you make it basically, the higher the cost, of course
06:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473696 << and it will.... yet again.... not work.... and the egg will "not be on face"... and etc.
06:24 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 15:56 asciilifeform: in other nyooz, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36412487 << buterin's waterfall to extinguish rising exchange rate just in time !
06:24 mircea_popescu for all the "cost to us", seems teh cost to you is so far minimal eh! just point an' laugh!
06:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473708 << note that renaissance happened roughly speaking in the sense that a bunch of bloggers, pico & co, who had developed both their taste and knowledge in a blogging sense strictly stumbled upon a cache of "things you call books today much in the way you'll call them blogs shorty - they were rolls though" which held their own ;
06:28 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 17:45 phf: there will be no great library of tmsr, but on the other hand no accumulation and exchange of amulets and fetishes of knowledge, because the last can be subverted in all kinds of ways we've seen already.
06:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473709 << more importantly, books are fucking dumb in a structural, unyielding manner very similar to how classical antiquity was dumb in 1400 : no proper conception of theology then ; no proper conception of humanity now.
06:29 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 17:49 phf: pre-80s hard bounds as a source of knowledge is a here and now sort of source, same way as pre-2005 amds, etc. not only is it a limited source, it is also unstable. a year from now, we're going to see all the fullstack developers switching to "classics library", and buying up last-known-prints on ebay for +++ bezzle dollars on ebay
06:30 mircea_popescu you can't find a book that's not informed by either a christian or socialist notion of theosophy. neither of these are intellectually acceptable, or even digestible. the dumb will have to be washed off books before they may be instruments of human thought again. asciilifeform does not feel this because he insists on only reading an (insignificant) fraction, math is math eh.
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06:33 mircea_popescu the fate of humanity is to be this endless rat in an endless baited maze. we can't, even as we sit and mourn the dead muroid next, stuff own gullet with the same fucking pellets, now can we.
06:33 mircea_popescu western civilisation died (again) because of its shitty books (again). not in spite of them, not unrelatedly, nothing else - BECAUSE the books were bad. it's poisoned and killed us and that comes with a fucking smithing the likes of which has never been seen
06:34 mircea_popescu not, at least, since THE LAST FUCKING TIME THEY DID THIS.
~ 16 minutes ~
06:50 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473712 << so then what do you want.
06:50 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 17:55 asciilifeform: and yes, the ~cultural institutions~ that produced my library, are dead as dodo.
06:50 mircea_popescu "the lamp's not dead, just the mains is". mmmkay. long live the cold lamp.
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06:53 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473728 << i suspect this is why television ended up shit. argentines love it!
06:53 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 18:05 asciilifeform: and i imagine it must suck to be the owner of a real airplane landed on cargo cult island, it will promptly be ripped apart for parts to decorate straw planes the moment you look away
06:53 mircea_popescu if you knew your plane would end up on cargo cult island anywya, would you bother with anything serious ?
06:53 mircea_popescu that's how cars ended up with a dollop of hot plastic on top. "suv"s my foot. it's just ldks, for "locals don't know shit"
06:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473729 << this was so common in romania (for some reason romanians were even MORE crazy book-militant than the ru), that a) there was a state-sponsored, official "books" edition/complete library (called "biblioteca pentru toti"). cheap paperbacks, fixed format made to fit preexisting standard shelving, decent antologies of reasonable titles. this was like you know, the prole version of "it's
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06:56 mircea_popescu ok, you may live, you have books". some were even read actually.
06:56 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 18:05 phf: no, but i've seen some extensive libraries in apparatchik homes that i know for a fact nobody read
06:57 mircea_popescu and b) all sorts of "required" items for the you know, "upper crust" which every aparatchick aspired to parvene to. they were rather meticulous, effectual sorts of people, and well informed, and consequently if you visited (which was common) and someone asked, "so what books does he have ?" you'd answer "everything." and they'd know what you meant.
06:58 mircea_popescu i don't think they had actually figured out by the end of the 80s that "everything" is a bad sort of books to have.
07:02 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473738 <<< my dear man. over one thousand gallons ?! think for a moment, the floating deathstar was burning a gallon every other second ? how did you stand the heat ?
07:02 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 18:09 phf: apparently those things are really expensive to run. i used to go on potomac with Georgetown liesure boat crowd, and short, 1-2 hour runs, would cost ~~3k in gas, and that was 8-10 years ago
07:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474047 << thanks you two, now i'm lost in reading old trilema o.O
07:09 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 03:09 BingoBoingo: In other old trilema http://trilema.com/2013/the-title-is-in-the-pudding/
07:11 shinohai wb Herr Popescu
07:12 shinohai ;;later tell pete_dushenski I'll see if BB can correct said oversight, thanks!
07:12 gribble The operation succeeded.
07:15 mircea_popescu how goes ?
07:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474053 << lmao check it out, napoleon iii pretension lives through the colonies! which are illiterate still!
07:17 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 05:05 ben_vulpes: so pediwikia claims that du chatelet is actually the postulator of the total energy constraint?
07:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474078 << notrly, lost interest after unknown addressed "her ceo" as "jeremy". they're obviously misrepresenting their private relationship, and i have no interest in participating in the banal scenes of fat anglo derps.
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07:26 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 17:38 asciilifeform: read like mircea_popescu wrath fodder
07:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474087 << looky here, people depositing their "10k usd coupon" from the employer with real estate bezzletron aren't buying anything or paying anything.
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07:27 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 18:00 asciilifeform: trinque: the folks payin' $10k/mo for a 1room flat ?
07:27 mircea_popescu when communism ended they gave the herd "coupons" to "privatize" the various busnesses by "subscription". the process of "subscribing" these coupons made nobody an investor.
~ 1 hours 56 minutes ~
09:24 shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://dpaste.com/1YZ90BF
09:24 gribble The operation succeeded.
~ 38 minutes ~
10:02 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474264 << that's nice, but doesn't the beloved cramer-shoup also use hashes? their scheme, to quote, "requires a universal one-way hash function"
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10:02 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:45 asciilifeform: i never really liked the idea of a hash.
10:02 Framedragger though a "hash-free variant" appears to be possible, so maybe there's that; need to check.
10:04 Framedragger (their "proof of security" assumes the hash function is truly one-way)
10:05 Framedragger (heh they even suggest sha-1 for the hash function, though this is from an olden paper, so.)
10:06 Framedragger (their "hybrid implementation" assumes a good symmetric-key cipher..)
10:06 asciilifeform Framedragger: there is a hash-free variant.
10:07 asciilifeform Framedragger: but i ought to emphasize for n00bs, cramer-shoup is merely the healthiest horse at this glue factory.
10:07 Framedragger asciilifeform: yeah i've got to that section, interesting, gonna slowly parse it
10:07 Framedragger any particular preferences on your part asciilifeform ?
10:07 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-26#1415708
10:07 a111 Logged on 2016-02-26 01:34 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2016#1415667 << it appears to have been the first (and to date, only other in public) system that is immune to chosen-ciphertext crapolade
10:07 asciilifeform Framedragger: you still don't get it, do you
10:08 asciilifeform c-s beats rsa only in that it is provably resistant to chosen-ciphertext attack
10:08 Framedragger please no appeals to teh coming empire
10:08 asciilifeform and hence does not require voodoo games with 'padding' etc.
10:08 asciilifeform it STILL, just like all other publicly known asymmetric cryptosystems, relies on a mathematical trap door of UNPROVEN hardness.
10:08 Framedragger that's fair. ok. i assume you don't think much of OAEP (i see it mentioned in the logz but only just)
10:08 asciilifeform nope.
10:08 asciilifeform it sucks donkey balls.
10:09 asciilifeform (and i will add that no public implementation wrote it correctly, either.)
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10:10 asciilifeform an adult asymmetric (or symmetric, for that matter) cryptosystem would rely on a mathematical problem of PROVEN complexity class (e.g., np-complete)
10:11 asciilifeform i personally dug up every publicly accessible resource i could think of, where such a unicorn might live, and found none.
10:12 asciilifeform all we have is a) otp, trivially proven to be impenetrable, high school level exercise b) everything else, being snake oils of varying degrees of toxicity, with c-s being the least noxious known to me presently.
10:12 asciilifeform understand that the 'hardness' of all known (and perhaps even any possible) hashes is just as unproven as that of, e.g., aes.
10:13 asciilifeform it is purely an exercise in 'this stumps me, ergo it is cryptographically hard'
10:13 Framedragger yeah i know the latter, i thought there were additional reasons for preferring c-s here. ok.
10:13 asciilifeform Framedragger: it is merely a variant of elgamal
10:13 asciilifeform but with this twist.
10:15 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474367 << mircea_popescu pounded in this nail, yes
10:15 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 10:21 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473683 << this is a deeply idiotic measurement. what you can't find me is a nigger that's happy with his life. that's the fucking criteria.
10:16 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474379 << i never said to preserve the christian crapola or any other other astrologies.
10:16 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 10:30 mircea_popescu: you can't find a book that's not informed by either a christian or socialist notion of theosophy. neither of these are intellectually acceptable, or even digestible. the dumb will have to be washed off books before they may be instruments of human thought again. asciilifeform does not feel this because he insists on only reading an (insignificant) fraction, math is math eh.
10:17 * asciilifeform read quite a few things but KEEPS AROUND only the thing worth keeping around...
10:18 Framedragger asciilifeform: hmh i guess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle%E2%80%93Hellman_knapsack_cryptosystem is np-complete, pity it's broken
10:18 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474390 << these are 'books' in the same sense that american 'house' is a house, etc.
10:18 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 10:56 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473729 << this was so common in romania (for some reason romanians were even MORE crazy book-militant than the ru), that a) there was a state-sponsored, official "books" edition/complete library (called "biblioteca pentru toti"). cheap paperbacks, fixed format made to fit preexisting standard shelving, decent antologies of reasonable titles. this was like you know, the prol
10:18 asciilifeform Framedragger: if it's broken, it ain't a cryptosystem now it. in that SOLVING it doesn't prove p==np for fuck's sake.
10:18 asciilifeform THINK ABOUT IT
10:18 Framedragger child the fuck down
10:18 Framedragger *chill
10:18 Framedragger but of course, true.
10:19 asciilifeform aha.
10:19 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474405 << in small american co it is typical for everyone, from ceo to mute mexican janitor, to be 'first-named'
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10:19 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 11:26 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474078 << notrly, lost interest after unknown addressed "her ceo" as "jeremy". they're obviously misrepresenting their private relationship, and i have no interest in participating in the banal scenes of fat anglo derps.
10:20 asciilifeform and yes, this was not so in 1940, or perhaps even 1970, but was so through my whole working life.
10:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474407 << now this is true.
10:21 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 11:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474087 << looky here, people depositing their "10k usd coupon" from the employer with real estate bezzletron aren't buying anything or paying anything.
10:23 asciilifeform from this thread we get a trivial definition of adult cryptosystem: provably unbreakable unless complexity classes collapse.
10:23 asciilifeform (not that otp is unbreakable even in ~this~ case.)
10:23 asciilifeform *note that!
10:24 asciilifeform note that otp is unbreakable even in ~this~ case.)
10:24 asciilifeform this is - so far - a null set.
10:24 Framedragger not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889
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10:25 asciilifeform entirely possible!
10:25 asciilifeform universe didn't ship with a warranty
10:25 asciilifeform it is even possible that we will never see a proof of whether it exists to be found.
10:26 asciilifeform but interestingly no 'respectable' cryptographer is even TRYING, afaik.
10:27 Framedragger well systems which assume "worst case" assumption vs. "random instances" of problem are perhaps better. see end of that answer
10:27 Framedragger s/assumption/instances/
10:27 asciilifeform how do you PROVE that a particular instance is not trivially heuristicable ?
10:28 Framedragger heristicable = heuristically solvable?
10:28 asciilifeform this is sorta like the boojum in rsa, where generating a ~good~ key is nontrivial
10:28 asciilifeform aha
10:28 Framedragger guess you can't, hence yes, problem
10:28 asciilifeform solvable in polynomial time.
10:32 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474385 << mircea_popescu whole point is that ~my particular lamp~ is still glowing. (i recently bought one of them tritium lamps, it is a good analogy for this actually)
10:32 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 10:50 mircea_popescu: "the lamp's not dead, just the mains is". mmmkay. long live the cold lamp.
10:36 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu socialistoid idiocy comes from lizard brain, not from b00kz. (though it can appear therein)
10:36 gribble The operation succeeded.
10:36 asciilifeform or what, the incas read marx and lenin before building their kolhoz ?
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10:40 shinohai https://www.coingecko.com/buzz/gavin-andresen-ethereum-rise-warning-to-bitcoin <<< obvious butthurt
10:41 asciilifeform lel zombie speaks!
10:41 asciilifeform hell, andreas a still talks
10:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu apparently needs a better killing jar ? his butterflies are still flyin'
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10:42 shinohai Maybe a more ptent solution of chloroform is in order.
10:42 shinohai *potent
10:43 asciilifeform 'I invite capable programmers from anywhere, including China, to help any of the teams working on open source Bitcoin software, whether that is Classic or Core or Unlimited or bitcore or btcd or ckpool or p2pool or bitcoinj.'
10:43 asciilifeform gold.
10:43 asciilifeform 'i will help to connect anyone working on undermining bitcoin with like-minded useful idiots!'
10:53 shinohai Naturally r/btc crowd is celebrating this resurrection: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4lvwzo/gavin_andresen_recent_rise_in_ethereum_should_be/d3qj7af
10:53 shinohai My sides.
~ 25 minutes ~
11:19 mircea_popescu lel.
11:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's the doctrine, somehow, no matter how badly they get battered they can't give the shit up.
11:20 asciilifeform hola señor popescu !
11:20 mircea_popescu it's all in "working together" blabla.
11:20 mircea_popescu hola
11:21 * Framedragger actually liked when reading some marx, at least volume 1 of das kapital. lenin can be discarded, save for learning from history or whatever (or that).
11:21 Framedragger s/or that/if that/
11:22 mircea_popescu $google james giffen
11:22 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
11:23 mircea_popescu eh really!
11:23 mircea_popescu anyway, thought asciilifeform'd appreciate the story, if not known already.
11:23 mircea_popescu one of the lulziest cases in the history of the us district kangaroocourts.
11:24 asciilifeform lol nazarbaev?!
11:24 trinque huh, must be a timeout thing
11:24 trinque $google james giffen
11:24 deedbot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Giffen << James Giffen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/11/19/was-james-giffen-telling-the-truth/ << Was James Giffen telling the truth? | Foreign Policy | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhgate << Kazakhgate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
11:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform guy's been all over everything cia for a coupla decades.
11:24 trinque fuggin leaky tubes
11:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474102 << very hard to argue with his guess.
11:25 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 18:05 BingoBoingo: She's a transplant to the bay area failing to afford it. Likely a female to mayo transgender with asperzorsations of leaving Ohio behind.
11:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474113 << idiocy can be painful.
11:28 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 18:33 asciilifeform: chick is 25 yo
11:29 Framedragger why in the fuck did she move to SF given the rent prices. this is truly perplexing.
11:30 trinque because it was her dream to ...
11:30 * trinque falls asleep
11:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474135 << nah, it'll be a lcd and an army of bulgarian nurses to run by the houses of everyone who thinks the opposite and flip them over the head.
11:30 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 18:50 asciilifeform: for instance, i'm about to buy moar display. it will be an lcd. but if mircea_popescu buys another display, it won't be lcd, it'll be a thing where a gurl flips pixels manually.
11:30 asciilifeform l0l
11:31 mircea_popescu Framedragger nobody gives these kids any clear signals. their great-grandparents went "bitch, you're gonna marry the first guy with a pulse and make me two nephews!" which was maybe excessive.
11:31 mircea_popescu but today, the parents go "oh, everything, blablabla". this is not useful.
11:31 mircea_popescu so the moment they pick the vaguest of signals, they're there.
11:32 Framedragger yeah, i've been prone to this, too, but luckily by applying some "heuristic human computronium" a.k.a. common sense no truly stupid tragedies happened.
11:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474137 << i can readily see that. even adjusting mentally for "he dun know the half of it!"
11:32 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 18:52 ben_vulpes: a friend of mine recently broke up with his girl of 4+ years, and i realized during conversation about his new dating adventures and the kinds of women he was encountering that i would have patience for approximately zero reeducation at this point in my life.
11:33 mircea_popescu Framedragger no, it's just luck, there's no rational solution out of the problem. see http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ for the discussion if haven't already.
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11:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474158 << actually, these same ones will np.
11:34 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:01 asciilifeform: young chix are programmable, they would just as happily 'great is the prophet muhammad' if born elsewhere.
11:34 asciilifeform sure, after you reflash'em
11:35 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474162 << this is the fundamental point of womanhood ever since you know, "common sense" added "poverty laws" to the common law.
11:35 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:01 trinque: because I am here
11:35 mircea_popescu "i am here ; therefore". and which it is why it needs absolutely no reflashing either asciilifeform
11:36 mircea_popescu if tomorrow muhammad offers a gram more petrocheese / unit time than usg.yelp.ceo.my, she's gone.
11:36 asciilifeform well somebody gotta load 'muhammed' into the register instead of 'demoocracy'
11:36 trinque hm, I see it
11:36 mircea_popescu to the victor - goes the nagging.
11:36 asciilifeform yeah but petrocheese is a peculiarly demoocratic bait. muhammed has other bait.
11:36 mircea_popescu cheapness is its own quality.
11:36 mircea_popescu and muhammad gave its believers much petro anyway.
11:36 asciilifeform tru
11:37 mircea_popescu and make no mistake about it, she'll pen diatribes to the mujahedeen about how tamara down the street got two inches more silk headdress or w/e
11:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474164 << i'll pass :D
11:38 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:01 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i enjoy the company of adults, not children
11:39 asciilifeform she will also write to kgb.... or do i have my continents crossed.
11:39 mircea_popescu and she did!
11:40 mircea_popescu and to teh gestapo, and in general, she's got a vocal vulvular valvule an' is not affraid to use it!
11:40 asciilifeform the traditional player here is ~old~ woman tho
11:40 asciilifeform complete with yappy-dog.
11:40 mircea_popescu notrly. old means many things, and here means "no longer sexually interesting to men"
11:41 mircea_popescu ustards achieve this by 19.
11:41 asciilifeform this was iirc one of the points of disagreement in thread, i saw photo, she was plenty interesting
11:42 asciilifeform (none of you lot concur ?!)
11:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474179 << nothing could be further from teh truth. with some regularity mp has to punish multi-year supposed experts for basic training items such as "who the fuck said you may leave". the equivalent'd be a research lab where one has to explain the criteria of divisibility with 2 and 5 to the research leaders.
11:42 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:04 asciilifeform: eh iirc mircea_popescu flies these in and reprogramms them to spec in days.
11:42 shinohai $s Melissa Bruninga-Matteau
11:42 a111 1 results for "Melissa Bruninga-Matteau", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=Melissa%20Bruninga-Matteau
11:42 mircea_popescu i can't be arsed to look at some medium photos.
11:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: research lab where one has to explain the criteria of divisibility with 2... <<< aaaaaaaaand guess where i worked !
11:43 mircea_popescu heh
11:43 asciilifeform and hey, general curtis lemay had to have 'no smoking' sign in airfield explained.
11:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474184 << good to know this is how that'll go eh ?
11:44 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:07 asciilifeform: hey, when the man is asleep ~somebody~'s gotta proffer the pineapple!111
11:44 mircea_popescu i already shudder at the thought of what my statue'll look like when i'm asleep.
11:44 asciilifeform giant pineapple, i expect!1111
11:44 asciilifeform holding broomstick.
11:44 mircea_popescu lol
11:44 asciilifeform (on dirigible.)
11:46 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474190 << in fairness, not EVERYONE aims to do things of that nature.
11:46 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:09 phf: none do, a working machine ~always~ has signs of its master's works
11:46 mircea_popescu no-serviceable-parts-inside hammer still works acceptably for all manner of people not making it their business to do complicated things with metals in surfaces
11:47 asciilifeform ever meet a bloke whose hammers are red with rust ?
11:47 asciilifeform they think 'no serviceable parts...' aha.
11:48 asciilifeform there is really no such thing as the tool that 'just worx!1111'
11:49 mircea_popescu tis a complicated discussion to properly have.
11:50 asciilifeform verily.
11:51 mircea_popescu for one thing, it's always hard to get past the little voice whispering at one that he's important, but : what makes you think you'd know what to adjust ?
11:51 mircea_popescu were you in adjust school ? where, war ? killed enough people to now known how they tick ? or where exactly, that was true, and truthful, and you paid attention.
11:53 asciilifeform most folks are 'chukcha ain't a reader, he's a writer' and do it anyway.
11:57 mircea_popescu well, yeah, and plenty of girls have the scars to show it.
11:58 mircea_popescu odd that this doesn't occur to you as the obvious answer to the whole "gold brick" bs. "oh, why doesn't mouse go down THIS tunnel!" "because there's a barb at the entrance and it stepped on it" "what barb ?!?!" "there" "oh, that ? that's just a barb!"
11:58 mircea_popescu mmkay.
11:59 asciilifeform i just find it hard to see young chix as legitimately-i-have-nothing-at-all poor.
12:00 mircea_popescu but this is ~mysoginy.
12:01 asciilifeform fact remains. she has assetz.
12:02 mircea_popescu so do you.
12:02 asciilifeform not within order of magnitude.
12:02 trinque there's nothing to envy about being owned.
12:02 asciilifeform trinque: did you bother to ask the owned ?
12:03 mircea_popescu and there the problem starts : given the same sack of whatever pounds' worth selected from the city dump, two different people will not make the same item, same order "lists of assets".
12:03 trinque asciilifeform: who would ask them? that's the point
12:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the solution is called 'market', no ?
12:03 mircea_popescu trinque ~same as there's to envy about having been born again or w/e, having found one's religion, calling, life, hapiness, w/e.
12:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no. a market exists when people make the same lists but order them differently.
12:04 mircea_popescu when they don't make the same lists a market's impossible, which is why britain must "civilize" the world before it can be a "trade empire".
12:04 asciilifeform pointedly not. plutonium is worth $-maxint (to the point that they would pay to have it removed from their house) to most folks. because not in their list. but on market - $maxint.
12:04 mircea_popescu before it manages that, it's a shitty island on the side of the great faith empire of a man on whose dominions sun never sets.
12:06 asciilifeform it is enough to find 1 buyer who has the sack of rubbish on his list. for it to have market worth.
12:06 mircea_popescu not what was said.
12:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: elaborate re 'different lists' vs 'same lists, ordered differently'
12:07 mircea_popescu what was said was that for as long as you value the S for a, worth z, and for b, worth x, whereas she values the sack FOR THE SAME a, worth y and for the same b, worth x, then therer can be a market.
12:07 mircea_popescu but without those meetings of the minds, there isn't a market, just chaos.
12:11 asciilifeform ah, this.
12:11 asciilifeform sure.
12:12 mircea_popescu well so sure, but then the market isn't "a magical solution from god for all the crazy dangerous shit i don't want to have to deal with".
12:12 asciilifeform tru. for some things - no market.
12:13 mircea_popescu and for the things where market - enjoy your corn syrup, the market chosen solution.
12:13 asciilifeform until if and when somebody conceives of how to reprocess them into saleable recycled feedstock.
12:14 mircea_popescu let's walk together through the history of this fine "market" thing, if we shall. so, it solved "the problem of feeding people", with hfcs. nice. and before that, it solved "the problem of trading in china". with opium. and before that...
12:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in usa, there is saying 'market is not invisible hand, but a tentacle - sometimes, rapes'
12:14 mircea_popescu a market is a poor substitute of either foreign policy or governmental theology.
12:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform would you believe that i quit, never to return, an assembly of esteemable finance heads when in congress they didn't agree, nor couldn't understand, why exactly "to split any item to two parties : one cuts, the other picks" is not only equitable, but the only equitable method so much so any other method is derived from it, and equitable only in as much as it's similar.
12:17 mircea_popescu that there's your market, entirely. one cuts, antoher picks. it only works in that context.
12:17 asciilifeform hey it's how my brother and i split candy bars as children.
12:18 mircea_popescu i have nfi what the fuck they do to them in school anymore.
12:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474229 << wait, what ?!
12:23 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:36 asciilifeform: for instance, i used to be able to read the log by hitting 'reload'
12:25 asciilifeform in www browsers
12:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474270 << http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-29#1473232 >> other things. computers are hacks!
12:25 a111 Logged on 2016-05-29 14:21 mircea_popescu: and that finally there is absolutely no reason to implement arbitrary division in the machine, nor does such idiocy exist in nature ; that the correct machine representation of numbers is FRACTIONS not fucking "decimals", and that computers that natively support bignum up to the size of memory and execute gcd in hardware aren't either particularly hard to make nor their absence to date excusable.
12:25 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:46 asciilifeform: this is 'minsky's dark room' all over again.
12:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: see thread from this morning. hashes suck in exactly the way aes sucks.
12:26 mircea_popescu the same sort of thinking informs it everywhere, and it's that sight most loathed in nature, the mental squid of an engineer!
12:27 mircea_popescu anyway, how's reload not work ? i been using it unknowingly ;/
12:27 shinohai http://ktla.com/2016/05/31/prosecutors-fight-to-stop-san-bernardino-shooters-family-from-getting-250000-life-insurance-claim/
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12:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: previous to last night, phf's 'last' link dropped you in an anchored point in time. which, when reloaded, will give you that log page eternally, even if new ones exist.
12:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474274 << deeply don't, gpg with sym key is liek... mmmkay.
12:27 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 19:50 Framedragger: aha, then i guess you don't really enjoy the fact that gpg uses aes for session key actually? :)
12:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform oh that's how you meant. i just reload a current page, yeah.
12:28 mircea_popescu shinohai what the hell's the logic there.
12:29 shinohai It's ok for the USof A to collectively punish people, but not N Korea, etc ?
12:30 mircea_popescu so what's the logic, "this guy pissed us off, his FAMILY therefore must not get reimbursed for losing teh means of support etc" ?
12:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474626 << su had a judicial sentence 'with confiscation of property', which was routinely employed, and included ~all~ property of the condemned. usa presently does not have such a sentence - it has 'proceeds and instruments of the crime', and 'restitution', which amount to ~same thing. and soon will be == de jure.
12:30 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 16:27 shinohai: http://ktla.com/2016/05/31/prosecutors-fight-to-stop-san-bernardino-shooters-family-from-getting-250000-life-insurance-claim/
12:31 shinohai This will be attempt to set said precedent
12:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform except the life insurance payout is not the guy's.
12:31 asciilifeform it is his estate's
12:31 asciilifeform the precedent is re estate of dead criminal
12:31 mircea_popescu mno, actually, it specifies whose it is.
12:31 mircea_popescu usually wife.
12:32 mircea_popescu the life policy carries a stated beneficiary
12:32 asciilifeform wife went postal with him iirc.
12:32 mircea_popescu which never is THE DEAD BLOKE
12:32 mircea_popescu ah so the plot deepthickens.
12:32 asciilifeform presumably 'next of kin'.
12:32 mircea_popescu well, whatever it may be, not his in any case.
12:33 shinohai iirc they had children?
12:33 mircea_popescu o it's pretty thick, "terrorists must not be permitted to provide".
12:33 mircea_popescu it is ACTUALLY literally a bill of attainder.
12:33 mircea_popescu "terrorist"
12:34 shinohai Ah yes, child is in custody of CPS in California.
12:34 asciilifeform it isn't even a mega-leap, judicially, these folks knew they were going to meet allah, hence for insurance purposes can be 'suicide'
12:34 shinohai Will be raised in re-education camp
12:35 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474330 <<< sooo... copy tmsr items, "launch" them, ??? profit... why are these webdicklets so derpy anyway.
12:35 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 23:33 shinohai: Judging from the flurry of messages I'm getting I think I triggered someone.
12:35 asciilifeform ^ this was the umpteenth copy of deedbot, also
12:35 asciilifeform how many now ?
12:35 * mircea_popescu can already picture the kid in question, 19 yo pakistani with a few online freelancing projects under his belt "spreading out" etc.
12:35 shinohai Final count was like 13 messages and 5 PM's just because I pointed out tmsr did it first. Props to deedbot
12:36 mircea_popescu lol
12:38 shinohai The best was the `no 'Web of Trust' needed` comment. He refused to read the relevant trilema article that I sent him obviously.
12:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474338 << dude what the everloving shit, you heat on electricity in fucking canada ?!
12:38 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 03:16 deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Infinity shades of solar, an erotic analysis. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/05/31/infinity-shades-of-solar-an-erotic-analysis/
12:39 mircea_popescu moreover, you heat on a .5 kwh/sq foot basis ?! this article is too mysterious for me.
12:39 mircea_popescu shinohai "buy these prized aquarium fish. no heads!"
12:39 asciilifeform hey, sprats!1111
12:40 * asciilifeform examines his spratuary, it is nearly empty
12:40 mircea_popescu what you keep them live ?!
12:40 asciilifeform mno.
12:40 mircea_popescu swimming in liquid smoke lol.
12:41 asciilifeform ^ but i've always wanted this!11111
12:42 mircea_popescu so electricity is like, <4 cent / kwh commercial in alberta ? who the hell knew, that's pretty good mining pricing neh ?
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12:50 mircea_popescu and so the matter settled : what started on may 25th as a slight disparity between the usg faux bitcoin exchanges trading at 448 (bitfinex isn't inclued here, having nothing to do with bitcoin altogether) while btcchina was reporting 455 (and 2/3 of the total volume), eventually peaked out at 510/580 (with btcchina still doing 2/3 of the volume) and eventually settled at 530/540. the moral that "you should have yielded rather
12:50 mircea_popescu than fought, yelps" is yet again obvious, and for the hundredeth or so time will pass unheeded, i guess.
12:51 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474412 << myeah.
12:51 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 14:02 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474264 << that's nice, but doesn't the beloved cramer-shoup also use hashes? their scheme, to quote, "requires a universal one-way hash function"
12:52 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474432 << eh, the public has to yet write anything correctly.
12:52 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 14:09 asciilifeform: (and i will add that no public implementation wrote it correctly, either.)
12:54 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474455 << and in goatfucklandia it is common for everyone to fuck a goat. what of it.
12:54 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 14:19 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474405 << in small american co it is typical for everyone, from ceo to mute mexican janitor, to be 'first-named'
12:55 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474465 << the republic seeks not so as to find, but so as to make.
12:55 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 14:24 Framedragger: not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889
12:57 Framedragger mircea_popescu: merely point out that the "root layer of the universe structure" may be a blocker on this bug. but the root layer has needed a paddlin' anyway..
12:57 Framedragger *pointing out
12:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474465 << god the fucking baiting you do.
12:58 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 14:24 Framedragger: not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889
12:58 mircea_popescu so some officious schmuck wants me to read "the section on wikipedia" where a set of snakeoil salesmen discuss their imaginary snake oil properties ? the glbgbblglbvrhl!
13:01 asciilifeform i have been to where they juice the cobras.
13:01 asciilifeform it was stomach-turning.
13:01 Framedragger so wikipedia sux and sometimes you need to glance at it, the way a hasty businessman glances at a dubitable street food stand in a foreign city. sometimes the temporary "before pgp xamarin something" solution is to glance at that damn wikipedia. what of it
13:01 asciilifeform the 'cryptographers', my shiny metal arse.
13:02 Framedragger (i sounded more literary in my mind)
13:03 mircea_popescu Framedragger chiefly, that it isn't. i posit that nothing good or useful can come of some kid at rutger's self importantly answering questions on a website because some 17 yo kid who thinks himself too cool for his ohio highschool asked a dumb question with the usual smattering of wikipedia his teachers usually A him for.
13:04 mircea_popescu now let's go at it with examples :
13:04 mircea_popescu "Note the "random instances" part. For a concrete example, we might assume that no polynomial-time algorithm exists for factoring the product of two random n-bit primes with some good probability. This is very different (less safe) from assuming that no polynomial-time algorithm exists for always factoring all products of two random n-bit primes."
13:04 mircea_popescu a) not concrete b) what "some good" c) he mixed up all/never.
13:04 asciilifeform cases of folks stepping on this caltrop abound
13:05 asciilifeform i.e. problems np-complete in the general case, but very much p in ~every known instance.
13:05 mircea_popescu but yes, what he's trying to copy was originally correct : the problem with cryptosystems is that even if they "reference" an actual hard problem, they don't get to stand in for the fucking problem itself! they pick a case, and we've no good hardness measurers for mere cases.
13:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform word.
13:07 Framedragger i don't think 'c)' obtains? no mix-up there. otherwise, sure, blergh re. a) and b)
13:07 asciilifeform if you could prove what is called 'flat keyspace', you can work as if every key you select requires same work to break.
13:07 asciilifeform (an no this has not been done for any extant system other than otp)
13:07 mircea_popescu Framedragger it should have read " This is very different (less safe) from assuming that no polynomial-time algorithm exists for any factoring of any products of two random n-bit primes."
13:09 asciilifeform ^ the hilarious bit is that we are smashing 'randomly selected n-bit primes' every day now
13:09 asciilifeform because 'randomly' is not good enough.
13:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the even more hilarious bit is that there just aren't THAT MANY primes to make different keys of a specified size.
13:10 asciilifeform not so.
13:10 asciilifeform $s prime number theorem
13:10 a111 1 results for "prime number theorem", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=prime%20number%20theorem
13:10 asciilifeform there's a hell of a lot.
13:10 mircea_popescu let's quantify this hell of a lot together.
13:10 Framedragger hm. *this* (i.e.: that "no polynomial-time algorithm exists for factoring the product of two random n-bit primes with some good probability") *is* less safe as compared to the safer assumption that "no polynomial-time algorithm exists for always factoring all products of two random n-bit primes". this is a much safer assumption cf. to the one you interpreted it to mean, no? (no baiting this time - just honestly confused). but eh, may
13:11 mircea_popescu are there more than possible combinations of 6 character passwords ?
13:11 Framedragger "was a terrible answer tho)" (fuckin irc)
13:11 asciilifeform more of what ?
13:11 asciilifeform http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeNumberTheorem.html
13:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform distinct prime pairs that make a 4kb key
13:11 asciilifeform take legendre's approximation, or chebyshev's, and see.
13:13 mircea_popescu 2^2049/ln(2^2049) - 2^2047/ln(2^2047)
13:13 mircea_popescu /2 but w/e.
13:15 asciilifeform a clearer approach would be to state this in terms of how many bits of entropy, such that is used in generating key, are de facto discarded by the nextprime() op.
13:16 asciilifeform (in the sense that K possible bitstrings could end up at the given nextprime())
13:16 mircea_popescu more sensible yes.
13:16 mircea_popescu point reimains, quite far from "flat keyspace" in this particular sense.
13:17 asciilifeform that isn't the keyspace.
13:17 asciilifeform keyspace is the space of all possible ~actual keys we might end up with~ at the end of proper key generation.
13:17 asciilifeform and the work required to break each.
13:17 asciilifeform (raw n-bit string that hasn't been fed to nextprime() nor the other tests, is not a key!)
13:19 mircea_popescu well, you could consider pair-of-primes as the key.
13:19 jurov deedbot: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160601/attachment.txt?sha1=af8606ade95cc571a9b29f0570d3c783a29c0ffe
13:19 asciilifeform pair of properly selected primes.
13:20 mircea_popescu yeah.
13:20 asciilifeform not otherwise.
13:23 mircea_popescu Framedragger : he says : "1. Assume no X exists for F-ing any A's with b ; 2. Assume no X exists for F-ing all A's with b ; 1 is safer than 2." and he is wrong.
13:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474482 << and what else, zig ziggler invented marketing ? stupidity is perennial, and not really worthy of nominal exercises.
13:25 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 14:36 asciilifeform: or what, the incas read marx and lenin before building their kolhoz ?
13:25 asciilifeform point was, it is not 'from old books'
13:25 mircea_popescu marx needs a name like my turds need individual id papers.
13:25 asciilifeform lose the books, lose 0 stupidity, and ~all shit worth actually knowing.
13:26 mircea_popescu they're still dead, irrespective how inconvenient that may turn out to be!
13:26 asciilifeform greece is dead and full of goat fuckers, does not cancel aristotle.
13:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474486 << i'm the worst killer in history ;/
13:26 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 14:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu apparently needs a better killing jar ? his butterflies are still flyin'
13:27 mircea_popescu or, to quote seinfeld,
13:27 mircea_popescu "She does stink and she should quit. But I don't want it to be because of me. It should be the traditional route; years of rejections and failures till she's spit out the bottom of the porn industry."
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13:28 asciilifeform l0l!
13:28 mircea_popescu myeah.
13:28 mircea_popescu omaigerd caught on logs. win.
13:38 asciilifeform in other nyooz, jp about to drop $100B of printolade.
13:39 mircea_popescu We consider the possibility of basing one-way functions on NP-Hardness; that is, we study possible reductions from a worst-case decision problem to the task of average-case inverting a polynomial-time computable function f. Our main findings are the following two negative results:
13:39 mircea_popescu If given y one can efficiently compute |f^-1(y)| then the existence of a (randomized) reduction of NP to the task of inverting f implies that coNP ⊆ AM. Thus, it follows that such reductions cannot exist unless coNP ⊆ AM.
13:39 mircea_popescu For any function f, the existence of a (randomized) non-adaptive reduction of NP to the task of average-case inverting f implies that coNP ⊆ AM.
13:39 mircea_popescu the f^-1 approach being actually pretty sensible.
13:40 Framedragger mircea_popescu: this is super unimportant but under your analysis, he says that 2 is safer than 1. you claim that 1 is safer than 2. should be inverted, methinks. (the "(less safe)" refers to 1, not to 2.)
13:40 Framedragger (thanks for bearing with me, and i'm off home). i leave you with http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4092
13:40 Framedragger s/you claim that/you claim that he claims that/
13:41 Framedragger jesus wtf am i doing
13:41 mircea_popescu yeah, /me drops this point
13:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is quite like those 1980s papers about star drives
13:41 asciilifeform we haven't the f.
13:41 asciilifeform nor any path to the f.
13:42 mircea_popescu yes, but if one proposes a f, doing the inverse just to see what happens is a good approach.
13:42 asciilifeform whole notion of hash is that 'do the inverse' is hard.
13:42 asciilifeform and point of thread was 'no one has shown with any degree of rigour whatsoever, ~how~ hard'
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13:43 asciilifeform it is 100% exactly the same case as in symmetric cipherdom.
13:43 asciilifeform 'aes is hard to break' 'says who' 'says me, i haven't broken it yet'
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13:43 mircea_popescu fine, state it like this : when someone proposes a hash, see if you can find a y for which the reverse is trivial.
13:43 asciilifeform sure. but my inability to do so says NOTHING about its hardness. only about how MY PARTICULAR hands grow out from my arse.
13:44 asciilifeform that's the basic boojum of crypto as practiced by extant 'cryptographers'.
13:44 mircea_popescu sure.
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13:49 asciilifeform btw when i went down into the snakepit with several dozen renowned 'cryptographers' earlier this year, i asked a few folks about this.
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13:49 asciilifeform got the ENTIRELY unsurprising 'what, you're a martian?' stare back.
13:50 asciilifeform one woman offered me a candy bar.
13:50 mircea_popescu huh ?
13:50 asciilifeform it is in the l0gz somewhere
13:50 mircea_popescu what's the candy bar to do
13:50 asciilifeform dunno. but that was the response.
13:51 asciilifeform 'stfu, monkey', must be.
13:52 asciilifeform see also the canonical >>> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-11#712426
13:52 a111 Logged on 2014-06-11 00:48 asciilifeform: 'Sacco and Vanzetti came up with an entirely different solution to the slow-MMU problem, one which if I do say so myself was less imaginative than mine, but both more general and more practical. They published theirs in a real conference, received much acclaim for it, and I believe patented it, started a so-called company and eventually sold it to Microsoft.'
13:53 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-11#712427 http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-11#712428 http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-11#712429 << for completeness.
13:53 a111 Logged on 2014-06-11 00:49 asciilifeform: 'Which, in fact, I had. Because I'd essentially told him his research was fraudulent. The fact that my research was also fraudulent, and that neither of ours was particularly noteworthy in that regard, did not matter. And why should it? Others' crimes cannot excuse your own.'
13:53 a111 Logged on 2014-06-11 00:49 asciilifeform: 'My Navrozov moment, of course, was when I approached one of the two - Sacco, I think - and attempted to have an intellectual discussion of this realization. The story is basically the same as Navrozov's, so it would be boring to repeat, but basically I came away with the feeling that I'd told someone his Sicilian grandmother liked to get drunk and fuck her own goats.'
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13:53 a111 Logged on 2014-06-11 00:49 asciilifeform: 'At some point during this period, however, I realized that the entire problem was a complete and utter pseudo-problem. ... So I am very confident that neither of these techniques, neither mine nor Sacco and Vanzetti's, has ever been used in practice. There is no need for them, there has never been any need for them, and there will never be any need for them. And this was quite obvious in 1993.'
13:53 asciilifeform damn a111
13:53 asciilifeform where is my DETERMINISTIC barf?!
13:54 asciilifeform or is it backwards?
13:54 mircea_popescu backwards apparently.
13:54 asciilifeform eh.
13:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so here's what i'm thinking : obviously the equivocation between "NP hard" in the sense of "it is not proven this set is empty of NP hard edges" and NP hard in the sense of "this set CONSISTS of NP-hard elements" is bad for crypto.
13:54 asciilifeform poor specification (and moreover deceitful sleigh-of-hand from the usual suspects) is bad for crypto.
13:54 mircea_popescu but now take something like... an irrational numeration base. take for instance something like (1+sqrt(5))/2, which is... practically binary!
13:55 asciilifeform Nyooz at 11!
13:55 mircea_popescu wouldn't this fit the more useful later definition ?
13:55 asciilifeform how?
13:55 asciilifeform base does nothing.
13:55 mircea_popescu well, it does as much as guarantee if your string is finite you're operating on an irrational.
13:56 asciilifeform and what of this ?
13:57 mircea_popescu you recall earlier discussion re summation of irrationals lemme dig it up
13:58 asciilifeform i recall there was thread where mircea_popescu suggested the use of nonstandard bases to frustrate enemy per 'specificity of diddling' principle.
13:58 asciilifeform this has ~nothing to do with provably placing transform's inversion into a complexity class.
13:58 mircea_popescu nono, we were discussing hard problems and i pointed out the russian guy with the addition
13:58 asciilifeform hm
14:00 mircea_popescu we went through a bunch of examples in one sitting, but i'm not finding it nao
14:00 asciilifeform oh, relatedly, and strangely,
14:00 asciilifeform $s vanzetti
14:00 a111 1 results for "vanzetti", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=vanzetti
14:00 asciilifeform ^ ought to have found the old l0gz
14:00 asciilifeform and did not.
14:00 asciilifeform phf ^
14:00 asciilifeform i had to grep own l0gz
14:01 asciilifeform how is this even possible.
14:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-10#1401529
14:03 a111 Logged on 2016-02-10 01:34 mircea_popescu: or to get back to exponential space problems : "decide first order logic propositions with real numbers, adition and comparison" is a very hard problem.
14:03 asciilifeform except that we don't have machines that work on real numbers.
14:03 asciilifeform just like how i can't go to my shop and machine a platonic solid.
14:03 mircea_popescu yes, but as long as the notation is in an irrational base,
14:04 mircea_popescu we do have in point of fact guaranteed irrational numbers.
14:04 mircea_popescu it doesn't seem there;s going to be so much cheating here.
14:04 asciilifeform nah, on physical machine you are working with ~representations~ of irrational numbers
14:04 mircea_popescu sure.
14:04 asciilifeform e.g., the symbol sqrt(2).
14:04 mircea_popescu but of arbitrary precision.
14:05 asciilifeform this is a pistol that shoots out the wrong end. the only one it makes life harder for is the user.
14:05 asciilifeform not enemy cryptologist.
14:05 mircea_popescu how do you figure ?
14:05 mircea_popescu admittedly my thinking being that it's time to stop trying to be clever and "cheat", seeing how the only cheated to date is self.
14:06 asciilifeform because it is actually not so hard to find, in polynomial time, that 3.1462643699419726 =~ sqrt(2)+sqrt(3).
14:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is more in the 'arab caesar cipher' vein, of cheating self.
14:07 mircea_popescu no cipher's yet been discussed has it ?
14:07 asciilifeform no, but implied !
14:07 asciilifeform (that using peculiar bases is somehow ciphratory)
14:07 mircea_popescu no such wonder was implied.
14:08 asciilifeform then why fuck around with bases ?
14:08 mircea_popescu what are you, a roman ?
14:08 mircea_popescu for convenience.
14:08 asciilifeform let's have the whole thing then..?
14:09 deedbot [Qntra] Bespoke Windows Exploit On The Market - http://qntra.net/2016/06/bespoke-windows-exploit-on-the-market/
14:09 mircea_popescu i dunno the whole thing. the observation however stands that just as there's a way to verify a number ISNT irrational, by the same way in the same manner for the same reason the reverse can also be verified. and there are indeed very hard (as it is the case here, harder than np-complete) problems to do with such numbers, arbitrarily chosen.
14:10 mircea_popescu there seems to me there's a field to graze upon here ; without any such sillyness as "basis is cipher"
14:10 asciilifeform well 'number isn't irrational' is something you determine from its ~definition~
14:10 mircea_popescu in the case here, you determine it from its notation.
14:10 asciilifeform (recall how euclid described sqrt(2))
14:10 asciilifeform correct
14:11 mircea_popescu this differfence is important.
14:11 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> the life policy carries a stated beneficiary << AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA Welcome to USSA. Beneficiary gets life insurance policy if they took it out on deceased themselves, but otherwise in USistani brokeness many times must first pass "DOes estate have expenses test"
14:11 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ridoinculous.
14:12 asciilifeform life insurance in usa is ~wholly a scam. has been for eons.
14:12 mircea_popescu getting back to base phi : two machine words together, 64 bit each, encode a huge chunk of cannonical phinary numbers ; and the machine wouldn't even have to know that's what it's doing.
14:12 asciilifeform if you die 'of old age', the medical racket gets it
14:12 mircea_popescu writing a cannonizer and an algebraic operator on this shouldn't be impossible.
14:12 mircea_popescu what next, meh, no idea atm.
14:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 1) define 'phinary' algebra 2) ?????????????? 3) profit!111
14:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's well defined neh ? phi + 1 = phi^2 etc.
14:14 asciilifeform shinohai: http://qntra.net/2016/06/bespoke-windows-exploit-on-the-market/#comment-60243
↖
14:25 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: usaschwitz, like all other slave empires, is ultimately powered by nondischargeable personal debt
14:26 asciilifeform (tax, 'penalties', various alimonies, etc.)
14:30 mircea_popescu https://oeis.org/A105165 << turns out it's actually pretty famous. famous enough for its own strings in the oeis.
14:33 phf asciilifeform: yeah, it's in backlog, i need to make a case-insensitive version of KMP
14:33 asciilifeform ah that was it.
14:34 asciilifeform $s Vanzetti
14:34 a111 8 results for "Vanzetti", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=Vanzetti
14:34 asciilifeform yeah.
14:41 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474857 <<< The sarcasm of "absolutely genuine" was lost on asciilifeform perhaps.
14:41 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 18:14 asciilifeform: shinohai: http://qntra.net/2016/06/bespoke-windows-exploit-on-the-market/#comment-60243
14:50 asciilifeform in other nyooz of the ridiculous, http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VINTAGE-HACKING-COMPUTER-SYMBOLICS-MACIVORY-LISP-MACHINE-KEYBOARD-OVERLAY-/322130142066
14:50 asciilifeform ^ $250 for piece of cardboard
14:50 asciilifeform i even have one. big whoop.
14:53 deedbot [Qntra] Forbes Revises Theranos CEO's Estimated Wealth To Near Zero - http://qntra.net/2016/06/forbes-revises-theranos-ceos-estimated-wealth-to-near-zero/
14:55 mircea_popescu awww
14:56 mircea_popescu "The vulnerability further bypassed Microsoft Enhanced Mitigation Experience Toolkit (EMET) protections. No comments from Microsoft were available at the time of this article." for maximal lulz.
14:57 asciilifeform winblowz local roots are not actually rare.
14:57 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2016/06/forbes-revises-theranos-ceos-estimated-wealth-to-near-zero/ << Theranos WAS interesting
14:57 asciilifeform ;;seen mats
14:57 gribble mats was last seen in #trilema 1 week, 4 days, 20 hours, 49 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <mats> fun fact, canto people typically have soup with every meal
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
16:01 Framedragger $s "war of life"
16:01 a111 8 results for "\"war of life\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22war%20of%20life%22
16:01 Framedragger what was war of life? (http://trilema.com/2014/the-twinheaded-announcer-announces/ ) ? a kind of game of life with bitcoin betting
16:02 Framedragger s/\n/?\n/
16:04 mircea_popescu yeah, it's actually in the logs. mike_c had some theories about bitbet and how it could be better, we tried it out, on the conway cell thing. he made a very pretty looking game out of it.
16:08 Framedragger sounds like it was fun, at least for a while!
16:09 BingoBoingo it twas
16:11 mircea_popescu yeah, it wasn't bad really. i guess in the end didn't gather enough momentum and we agreed to end it ; but not without regret
16:12 mircea_popescu there must be extant screenshots somewhere
16:12 asciilifeform iirc we even had a fella ragequit over WoL closing
16:12 asciilifeform (TaT?)
16:12 mircea_popescu was it ?
16:12 asciilifeform aha
16:13 asciilifeform last thing out of him was actually a thread at trilema, to this effect.
16:14 mircea_popescu i recall the fellow not digesting my pointing out to him that his calls, opinions ideas etc on some topic he had nothing to do weren't interesting ; dunno what exactly the adherence was. maybe this, yeah.
16:14 Framedragger a screenshot: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/lol-death.png
16:14 mircea_popescu aha yeah that was it
16:15 mircea_popescu ima bbl
16:19 BingoBoingo Yeah WoL was TaT's last stand though he popped up occasionally later for events like http://qntra.net/2015/10/well-connected-bezzle-health-startup-theranos-collapsing/#comment-31763
16:24 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu gonna fire up sks dump circa 2016 shortly.
16:24 gribble The operation succeeded.
16:25 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474528 << goddamnit: read article; fail to parse word ('edulcorously'); realise only two google results are (1) ben_vulpes uttering the word, and (2) this trilema artcile (the following day); end up checking roots of "edulcorate" (make something more acceptable or palatable) http://imgur.com/85Iy0el
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16:25 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 15:33 mircea_popescu: Framedragger no, it's just luck, there's no rational solution out of the problem. see http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ for the discussion if haven't already.
16:27 Framedragger "They were bored to death even with their own thoughts and dreams, bored with the attack they expected momentarily. They were bored of being bored, and too sick and tired of being bored to even consider not being boring. It's just not possible to do, it exceeds human capacity. Turns out that when confronted with the meaningless pointlessness of endlessness, the inadequacy of the muchly lauded human faculty of creativity becomes readily a
16:31 asciilifeform in other nyooz:
16:31 asciilifeform ACHTUNG, PANZERZ!
16:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, mod6, et al:
16:31 mod6 what up
16:31 asciilifeform http://www.frostyplace.com/index.php?story_id=11202 << i may have found a replacement for pogo.
↖
16:31 mod6 oooo
16:31 asciilifeform ^ 256M ram, sata and esata, 1GB ether, fiddybux
16:31 asciilifeform i have one here.
16:32 asciilifeform they are available in usa through crapazon.
16:32 Framedragger asciilifeform: i would seriiosli consider http://www.2x4.ru/index.php?pid=71
16:32 asciilifeform mod6: unlike pogo, thing is a HEAVY metal brick, with the drive on inside
16:32 asciilifeform very impressive mechanically.
16:33 asciilifeform Framedragger: not related to this thread
16:33 Framedragger oh lol, oops.
16:33 asciilifeform Framedragger: pogo is a small linuxable computer, now out of print
16:33 Framedragger nice. ok
16:34 Framedragger lots of logs. kk. sorry
16:35 asciilifeform mod6: dual core incidentally.
16:35 asciilifeform (unlike pogo)
16:35 asciilifeform so for 2x the cost, you get ~2x the juice.
↖
16:36 asciilifeform the memory leak will still have to be killed though, before these can trb.
16:38 asciilifeform thing is also sold as 'silverstone dc01'.
16:39 asciilifeform http://aphnetworks.com/reviews/silverstone_dc01/2
16:41 Framedragger mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ was a nice read, thanks. chance, right.
16:45 mod6 asciilifeform: awesome find, i'll take a closer look at it tonight for sure.
16:47 asciilifeform ALSO unlike pogo, it comes with all four types of mains plug
16:47 asciilifeform (removable heads)
16:47 asciilifeform including the uncommon mircea_popescuine one.
16:47 asciilifeform in the standard package, even.
16:50 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=16/06/01/0252208
16:50 asciilifeform 'Devuan, the once devil-may-care total fork of Debian, once linked to virulent internet sexism and gamer-gate affiliated image forums by Debian Developer Russel Coker, has mulled the option of enacting a Code of Conduct when one of its female members was insulted...'
16:51 asciilifeform ^ this was the non-systemd fork of debian, iirc.
16:52 mod6 <+asciilifeform> including the uncommon mircea_popescuine one. << sweet
16:53 asciilifeform mod6: this thing appears to be virgin earth, in the sense that no one has afaik published serial port pinouts, etc.
16:53 asciilifeform there is not even a close-up pcb photo
16:53 asciilifeform (i am about to snap one, as soon as camera charges)
↖
16:55 mod6 ok cool, any info we can get on the thing, the better.
17:10 asciilifeform mod6: http://imgur.com/a/991vV ( or https://archive.is/ddDoq for mircea_popescu )
17:10 asciilifeform sorry'bout the duped 1st pic
17:11 asciilifeform i also did not bother to examine the underside of mp, all of the connector pads appear to be on top
17:11 asciilifeform and i dun feel like regreasing the cpu
17:13 asciilifeform http://blog.livedoor.jp/hide_system/archives/2013-02-05.html << suggests that this is same board, and 1 of the 4pin pads, as usual, is tty.
17:17 asciilifeform *mb
17:21 * mod6 looks
17:22 BingoBoingo ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=4521
↖
17:22 gribble The operation succeeded.
17:24 mod6 nice pics alf
17:25 asciilifeform mod6: not terribly useful pics. the chore still remains, to probe the pins.
17:27 asciilifeform (in case this was not clear from the pics, the thing can actually handle ~2~ sata disks - one inside box, one out)
17:30 mod6 i see that.
17:30 mod6 gige too
17:31 asciilifeform aha, like pogo
17:32 asciilifeform astonishingly, there is even a jumper.
17:33 mod6 turn down for wat
17:33 asciilifeform i have nfi for wat
17:33 mod6 that for the reset button then?
17:33 asciilifeform waiwut
17:34 asciilifeform the empty hole appears to be for one of those bicycle lock things.
17:34 mod6 oh nm. thought they were jumpers until i zoomed in
17:34 mod6 i see that its not
17:36 mod6 next to the ethernet port chassis, the black thing looked like a jumper. the only jumper i see is next to C149
17:36 asciilifeform yeah that's the 1.
17:40 mod6 anyway, this seems easier as one could just rip the drive out, load up the full orchastra on the disk, drop it back in and you're ready to go.
17:40 asciilifeform easier than what ?
17:41 asciilifeform it is same sort of box as pogo
17:41 asciilifeform armv5, iirc
17:41 asciilifeform it dun boot from disk, but from the 256M of flash in there.
17:41 asciilifeform which will need to be fed with correctly-tuned rotor kernel etc.
17:41 mod6 ah, ok, wasnt sure if any flashing needed to happen
17:41 mod6 yeah, sure. arm deal.
17:42 mod6 ok, awesome
17:43 asciilifeform not earth-shaking - before we can run on this, we pretty much have to also run on pogo
17:43 asciilifeform because 256M will die in merely twice as long as the 128M dies in (what was it, 8 hours?)
17:44 asciilifeform the two SEPARATE leaks that we identified will have to die.
17:44 asciilifeform (recall, block index is RETARDEDLY kept resident in ram, being first leak)
17:49 asciilifeform mod6: http://digiland.tw/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=mcs-ln2sps << another clone.
17:50 * mod6 looks
17:50 mod6 <+asciilifeform> the two SEPARATE leaks that we identified will have to die. << werd
17:51 mod6 <+asciilifeform> (recall, block index is RETARDEDLY kept resident in ram, being first leak) << yeah, getting these into `t' for the trb project will be a big main priority once i get tbot deployed.
17:52 mod6 ah sure, looks like the same board.
17:53 mod6 whats the approx cost on a deal like this? $100?
17:53 mod6 (with disk)
17:53 asciilifeform mod6: depends how much disk you buy, neh ?
17:54 asciilifeform also it seems to have rtc battery !
17:54 asciilifeform bottom left hand of underside photo from last link.
17:55 asciilifeform mod6: the test unit i showed you cost me fiddybux exactly.
17:55 asciilifeform ~3d ago.
17:55 asciilifeform quite likely that, like pogo, these can be had cheaper in some qty.
17:55 mod6 nice
17:55 asciilifeform somewhere.
17:56 asciilifeform they are not sold with disks.
17:56 asciilifeform you gotta stuff in your own.
~ 16 minutes ~
18:12 mod6 asciilifeform: ahhh
~ 17 minutes ~
18:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474899 << it's been in use as a bona fide english term (which it is) on trilema, as the last repository of actual english (which it is). so there!
18:29 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 20:25 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474528 << goddamnit: read article; fail to parse word ('edulcorously'); realise only two google results are (1) ben_vulpes uttering the word, and (2) this trilema artcile (the following day); end up checking roots of "edulcorate" (make something more acceptable or palatable) http://imgur.com/85Iy0el
18:33 ben_vulpes he also got the order wrong
↖
18:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474921 << did i miss the part where those 20 lines were all prefixed with turns out mp's ideas about the evolution of the world were right ; and mine wrong ; and i really should chillax on the paranoia score ?
↖
18:34 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 20:35 asciilifeform: so for 2x the cost, you get ~2x the juice.
18:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474937 <<< we gonna have to wait for the book or are you putting it all on blog ?
18:39 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 20:53 asciilifeform: (i am about to snap one, as soon as camera charges)
18:40 mircea_popescu because let me point out http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473515 to you.
18:40 a111 Logged on 2016-05-30 00:59 mircea_popescu: next ones.
18:40 mircea_popescu motherfcuker.
18:41 mircea_popescu he's dedicated to being indisciplined above all else.
18:41 mircea_popescu do you know why there's no alf in russia, alf ? because they shot all of you. for this reason.
~ 31 minutes ~
19:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: eh they'll shoot all of me here soon enuff.
19:13 asciilifeform also the jp photo is better, use that one.
19:13 * asciilifeform brb - meat
19:26 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474997 << notrly!
19:26 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 22:33 ben_vulpes: he also got the order wrong
19:26 Framedragger oh, yes, i did.
19:28 ben_vulpes it's okay
19:28 ben_vulpes time is hard
19:29 Framedragger wibbly-wobbly
19:29 ben_vulpes political
19:29 Framedragger and quite possibly run by a chinese mining cartel to boot
19:30 ben_vulpes i was discussing implementation minutae of a timing project with my pm today
19:31 ben_vulpes said something along the lines of "and i have completely punted on the issue of testing whether or not events happen in the right timezone for the user. the testing strategy is to set the user tz to utc, the system tz to utc, and make assertions about when events fire."
19:32 ben_vulpes "because i do not have time before our delivery deadline to figure out the millisecond offset between utc and n number of other timezones, depending on how thoroughly we want to test this."
19:32 ben_vulpes pm winces
19:32 ben_vulpes "much less figure out how daylight savings time factors into the problem. and how in which timezone."
19:32 ben_vulpes pm physically recoils, "jesus i didn't even think about that"
19:32 ben_vulpes *million yard stare*
19:33 ben_vulpes http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html << oblig
19:35 Framedragger *shudders*. reminded me of this: https://qntm.org/unit
19:46 Framedragger ah hence the 'political' term. (naggum).
19:50 ben_vulpes no, logz.
19:50 ben_vulpes aight maybe some naggum as well. but there are extended discussions of political time in the logs.
↖
19:51 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22political+time%22 << start there
19:52 Framedragger kthx
19:55 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474906 <<< neato asciilifeform
19:55 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 20:31 asciilifeform: http://www.frostyplace.com/index.php?story_id=11202 << i may have found a replacement for pogo.
19:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474998 << waiwat
19:59 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 22:34 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474921 << did i miss the part where those 20 lines were all prefixed with turns out mp's ideas about the evolution of the world were right ; and mine wrong ; and i really should chillax on the paranoia score ?
19:59 asciilifeform did mircea_popescu predict that other nas gadgets will be found and i - that they won't ? or sumthinglikethat?
↖
20:00 asciilifeform thing is only a replacement for pogo in that it does >= what pogo did and 'only' costs 2.5x moar
20:00 asciilifeform instead of 5x
20:00 asciilifeform (like every other known device that does >= pogo)
20:03 shinohai Case looks to be brushed aluminum or something, appears well built.
20:06 asciilifeform shinohai: it is ~astonishingly~ solid
20:06 asciilifeform as in, you could crack a skull.
20:14 shinohai "To Gavin, from tmsr" *crack*
20:17 asciilifeform anyway it isn't a wunderwaffen, just a $50 really-nice-pogo.
20:17 asciilifeform at least once i finally pop a shell on it.
20:19 shinohai Do keep us apprised I may consider working one into lab budget at that price.
~ 21 minutes ~
20:41 shinohai ;;ticker --market all
20:41 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 536.22, vol: 5387.36655018 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 524.363, vol: 5771.7118 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 535.4, vol: 27767.72284591 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 455.0, vol: 0.91928901 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 544.455639, vol: 51316.58910000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 534.88, vol: 2018.13619674 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 535.98981, vol: 51.22597362 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
20:41 shinohai ;;more
20:41 gribble 539.779921492
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~
21:55 BingoBoingo $s cookie chief
21:55 a111 2 results for "cookie chief", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cookie%20chief
21:56 shinohai COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKIE crisp
21:57 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1475029 << it really all proceeds from discussing naggum's thing.
21:57 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 23:50 ben_vulpes: aight maybe some naggum as well. but there are extended discussions of political time in the logs.
21:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1475036 << leaving aside various minor points, the large standing dispute currently is whether whatever bullshit "control technology" has or has not meaningful impact on "free computing". and you're, unrepentently to the point of denial, on the wrong side of it.
21:58 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 23:59 asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu predict that other nas gadgets will be found and i - that they won't ? or sumthinglikethat?
21:58 mircea_popescu that's the large thread : that whatosever shall happen, it will serve the state partly and the republic fully ; without exception and without respite but apparent and momentary.
21:59 deedbot [Qntra] Spread Between Chinese And Other Exchanges Settles With Dollar Lower Against Bitcoin - http://qntra.net/2016/06/spread-between-chinese-and-other-exchanges-settles-with-dollar-lower-against-bitcoin/
21:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i stand by my hypothesis. the pogos etc. are NOT workstations.
22:00 asciilifeform and new workstations ARE unavailable.
22:00 mircea_popescu this is ~exactly like the one where you "can't" build your blog rather than obama's platform, because "commute" or whatever the reason was.
22:00 mircea_popescu wholly pebkac.
22:00 asciilifeform nah that's sloth.
22:01 asciilifeform failure to fabricate opteron in kitchen - also sloth ?
22:01 mircea_popescu that you take the same lump of shit, make "different" (to you!) figurines out of it and then call one fred and the other alison is not substantively interesting you realise.
22:01 mircea_popescu it might be endearing to the woman interested in you, but it says not one inch about shit.
22:02 asciilifeform can haz concrete ? where do i get NEW workstation.
22:02 mircea_popescu i just gave you a list of concrete.
22:02 asciilifeform or what, workstations somehow irrelevant now in mircea_popescu's planet.
22:02 mircea_popescu the way concrete works is you have to swallow the concrete provided, not try and invent what at the time seems like "he won't be able to provide PINK CONCRETE!111"
22:02 asciilifeform i dun see the relevance of where i put rubbish pastebins to anything.
22:03 mircea_popescu so you have trouble respecting your own work. fine. what of it ?
22:03 BingoBoingo Depends on the phosphorous content of the shit? Interesting restrictions on phosphorous containing fertilizers are being placed out of concern for "water quality" at a time when "peak phosphor" is a quiet concern...
22:03 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i thought phosphorus is good!
22:04 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: It's wonderful and necessary! But... "green washing"
22:04 mircea_popescu a
22:05 BingoBoingo I mean you can skip phosphorous if you dun care that your plants develop non-retard roots.
22:05 BingoBoingo *retard roots
22:06 shinohai My shit glows in the dark due to high phosphorous content.
22:06 BingoBoingo You know what thrives with low phosphorous retard roots? "Corn"
22:06 mircea_popescu when i was growing up all sorta amateur dieteticians of the 3rd age were all liek "oh, eat that, it's good for you, has phosophorus"
22:07 BingoBoingo Just pump all the anhydrous amonia you can into the soil, topgrowth is the only thing salable anyways.
22:07 BingoBoingo Nevermind that some days are windy...
22:07 * asciilifeform recalls when gardeners 'cheated with nitrates' and sold hypertrophied but 'inedible' produce in bazaar
22:07 asciilifeform did they have nitrate panic in mircea_popesculand ?
22:07 mircea_popescu now it's pretty much the "supermarket" norm innit
22:07 mircea_popescu yeah.
22:08 asciilifeform and aha, pretty sure it is sop in usa now.
22:09 mircea_popescu can't beat cheap.
22:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway ; i dun specifically mean to piss on your lone-flying-fortress parade. but you gotta appreciate it's a stylistical preference for interpreting reality, rather than actual reality.
22:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu is welcome to piss, the rocketz in the parade dun care!11
22:13 mircea_popescu i bet you whatever you want just as we sit here there's some dude flying some desk somewhere (that used to be mahogany, and used to have plants around! ahh cold war!) to whom we seem the very perennial rats
22:14 mircea_popescu that because... well... we are.
22:14 mircea_popescu "haven't these rednecks figured out anarchy dun work already!!11"
22:14 mircea_popescu etc.
22:14 asciilifeform also i dun have a porthole into Actual Reality (tm) here, only the other one.
22:14 asciilifeform and yeah surely.
22:14 mircea_popescu yeah you do, you just dun wanna look!
22:14 mircea_popescu the secret i'm sharing is that there's no monogamous relationship with reality : looking at any of them nude doesn't end your relationship. with any of them.
22:15 mircea_popescu this magic is called context by the more perverse euros.
22:22 BingoBoingo Question of the day, how did this man not blow all his money on chumpatron before getting 2.5 acre yard https://archive.is/MeYnF
22:25 shinohai Right in mod6 's backyard!
22:26 * BingoBoingo wondering if the product applied was glyphosate or diquat
22:29 BingoBoingo If Diquat good luck applying seed or new sod for at least a month.
22:34 shinohai Dear Lord Sithrak, please protect me from teamviewer haxxorz
22:42 BingoBoingo Reddit DIY Projects https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/4m45uq/my_first_sub_panel/
22:42 BingoBoingo "I'll have you know it's a load bearing sock"
22:43 shinohai inb4 asciilifeform barfing
22:45 shinohai All those positive comments, it's like gold stars from kindergarten teacher
22:46 asciilifeform l0l vicegrips
22:52 mod6 <+shinohai> Right in mod6 's backyard! << lol srsly
22:59 mircea_popescu is that thing from a "mining farm" ?
23:00 asciilifeform soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
23:00 asciilifeform i have a shell.
23:00 shinohai \o/
23:00 asciilifeform on ye olde piece-o-shit
23:01 shinohai Is it turd worth polishing?
23:02 asciilifeform is as described on box.
23:02 asciilifeform ships with, of all things, 'fedora 12'.
23:02 shinohai ewwww
23:02 asciilifeform i had nfi it even existed on arm.
23:04 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Indeterminate
23:08 asciilifeform in other newz, an orlol, http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/05/a-russian-warning.html
23:19 shinohai http://www.seeker.com/male-spiders-attracted-to-young-big-fat-females-1834450018.html <<< American spiders rejoice
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