Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-06-06 | 2018-06-08 → ↓
00:00 mod6 hey this Borsec is pretty decent
00:00 mircea_popescu o it got there ?
00:00 mircea_popescu nice.
00:01 mod6 Yeah, bought 6 bottles (which, only plastic ones were available). One bottle was broken, so I really only got five. But w/e. Good stuff.
00:05 mircea_popescu wait, a ~plastic~ bottle was broken ?!
00:05 mircea_popescu holy shit i never heard of that before, they survive highway crashes those things
00:05 mod6 yeah, somehow the bottom of one of the bottles got a crack in the bottom.
00:06 mod6 i pulled out the whole pack and one was totally empty. i lul'd.
00:10 mod6 stranger, it was packed pretty well. pack of six was in a rigid corrugated box stuffed with foam peanuts.
00:11 mod6 hopefully next pack will be all intact.
00:13 mircea_popescu supposedly it's good for you.
00:13 mod6 good to hear, thanks for the suggestion.
~ 16 minutes ~
00:30 asciilifeform https://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-rockchip/2018-06-07#22280508 << oblig whisperers who 'helped'
~ 9 hours 24 minutes ~
09:55 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-06#1820987 <-- sure thing. actually it may be a great idea to try to get them published. they're usually not coherent enough to make a blog post, but worth giving a shot.
09:55 a111 Logged on 2018-06-06 16:23 BreakingRae: Hey Spyked, I'd love to see your notes on what we discussed if you'll show me.
10:02 spyked mircea_popescu, version of what?
10:04 mircea_popescu surisul fetei din tramvai
10:13 spyked ah, okay. re that, I think it's a good assignment for philology students, so I'm actually making it a point to mention it to ppl in the field.
10:14 spyked actually meeting one tomorrow, so now that you mentioned it... I'm definitely going to ask her to do a japanese translation!
10:16 mircea_popescu it's un fucking translatable. aaaand, to quote the last one, "lol hes in denial".
10:25 spyked lol. mircea_popescu, I'm not denying nor admitting! the fact remains that your version has a borken metre, i.e. the last two lines don't match the first two. for ref., http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1802222 dunno how much this counts for mircea_popescu, but it does for me.
10:25 a111 Logged on 2018-04-18 20:55 mircea_popescu: spyked, apparently you have no comments ? anyway, "the smiling girl i saw today bewitched my soul entirely ; another line goes in a diary that's read by me, and Mr. Sorrowly."
10:26 mircea_popescu hey, i don't enter into it -- i'm asking sluts. if not sluts, who is to arbiter poetry ?
10:34 spyked that's a fair point I guess. the wave of self-aggrandazing poetry critics seems dead today, and that didn't mean much to begin with.
10:34 mircea_popescu other than sexual, i know of no function of poetry.
10:35 spyked mircea_popescu, what about music? (I'm asking because I find the two inseparable)
10:36 mircea_popescu nah, music is math.
10:37 spyked lol! I was just going to say that I kinda enjoyed barbilian's poems-as-puzzles back in highschool.
10:37 mircea_popescu :p
10:40 mircea_popescu anyway, it's not the last two, it's just the last one.
10:42 deedbot http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2415 << Loper OS - The secret of the Debug Accessory Mode Adapter.
10:47 asciilifeform ^ complete schematic.
10:48 mircea_popescu aaaa
10:49 asciilifeform the seekrit is out...
10:50 mircea_popescu this is pretty cool!
10:51 asciilifeform bonus, should also work , in principle, to control intel.nsa rootkit ( https://archive.li/PCptx derpery & in other 'seekrit whisperings' )
10:51 asciilifeform reportedly they use same seekrit plug.
10:52 mircea_popescu how the fuck did you find that 5.1 value
10:52 asciilifeform see prev. post.
10:52 asciilifeform it was buried in a megalith standards committee pdf crapola.
10:52 mircea_popescu aaaa
10:54 asciilifeform phf: i built it from junk box, you can make it in about 10min.
10:55 asciilifeform the only 'exotica' is the usbc breakout plug; these are on lulzazon ( part http://a.co/hus7Yyh ) and prolly elsewhere.
10:56 * asciilifeform brb,teatime
10:57 mircea_popescu wellearned tea.jpg
~ 16 minutes ~
11:13 BingoBoingo Holy shit on the Open problem to resolved problem tea.
11:13 mircea_popescu he's talented, isn't he.
11:23 BingoBoingo Seriously. Breaker of tard worlds
~ 20 minutes ~
11:43 asciilifeform the trickiest part of this magic trick still remains to be done, because -- if google's shitpile is to be believed -- one of those /dev/ttyUSBn is actually a spi bridge
11:44 asciilifeform and in principle can be used to rewrite the eeprom without fancy solderings...
11:44 mircea_popescu aaaa
11:45 asciilifeform possibly even ~two~, there are two roms, 1 is the bootloader, the other is the embedded controller
11:47 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/06/hfpa-insists-former-heads-groping-of-george-of-the-jungle-was-a-joke/ << Qntra - HFPA Insists Former Head's Groping Of 'George of the Jungle' Was A Joke
11:54 mod6 mornin'
11:55 BingoBoingo mornin
11:55 asciilifeform ohai BingoBoingo
11:56 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Congrats on the victory against the googleists/Intelards
11:56 asciilifeform ty BingoBoingo . small victory tho, yet.
11:59 BingoBoingo Small victory in the same sense being the first to summit a mountain is a small victory. There's this impossing and incomprehensible mass of rock, eventually someone makes his way to the top, documents or creates a human navigable path, etc, etc.
11:59 BingoBoingo It's a small victory in the direction of capturing USB-C as a Republican standard
12:02 asciilifeform it'll be interesting to try the plug with a recent intel box ( i dun have any, currently, with usbc ); see earlier derpery link re why
12:07 BingoBoingo Right
12:08 mod6 <+asciilifeform> ^ complete schematic. << I've been catching up on your posts here, this is pretty great!
~ 32 minutes ~
12:41 asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XPFXr/?raw=true << console crapola
12:41 asciilifeform some of the cmds (e.g. 'i2cscan', 'reboot') return 'access denied', will have to find why.
12:48 asciilifeform interestingly, the ec console works when box is 'off'..
12:50 mircea_popescu kinda the point of these neh
12:50 asciilifeform aaha
12:50 asciilifeform controls battery charger, power button, etc
12:58 ben_vulpes in other lols, sbcl.org is down
~ 1 hours ~
13:59 asciilifeform yep looks dead
~ 19 minutes ~
14:19 phf !#s sbcl down
14:19 a111 9 results for "sbcl down", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=sbcl%20down
14:19 asciilifeform prolly it's hosted on some d00d's home dsl, lol
14:21 phf they should just let cracauer host it on cons.org
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
15:28 mircea_popescu zing
15:41 mircea_popescu in other lulz, https://medium.com/@MartinCracauer << "Read writing from Martin Cracauer on Medium. Lisp, FreeBSD, Shift-Tilt Photography and Symphonic Metal. Every day, Martin Cracauer and thousands of other voices read, write, and share important stories on Medium."
15:41 mircea_popescu there's basically nothing left inside these schmucks, "joe and thousands others [just like him]" isn't even perceived as insulting.
15:45 mircea_popescu https://hackernoon.com/software-development-at-1-hz-5530bb58fc0e << how lisp is all about mouse twitching, long live RTS/MOBA and what is turn-based strategy even!!!
15:45 mircea_popescu https://medium.com/@MartinCracauer/cognitive-inertia-programmers-at-work-and-why-useless-information-is-so-much-easier-to-remember-5a5fea466d3c << other insanely irritating anal childhood bullshit.
15:45 mircea_popescu oh, neoteny of postmodernism, how ye keep telling yourself you're ok and what a disgusting slimy maggot ye are...
15:59 phf well, the "1hz" point comes up periodically in lisp conversations, and there's a value behind it. asciilifeform attacks in various forms, naggum talked about it also, though i'm failing to find relevant article. cracuer is just surprisingly neotenic to express the point coherently
16:07 mircea_popescu im writing it up.
16:09 asciilifeform https://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-rockchip/2018-06-07#22285756; << moar c101pa lulzies
16:09 mircea_popescu you've not been excommunicated yet ?
16:10 asciilifeform not only not excommunicated, but the informant still grudgingly drips hints
16:10 asciilifeform tho i suspect that he's running dry
16:13 phf asciilifeform: can they put a bot here so it'll quote for us? :)
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16:13 asciilifeform lol
16:15 mircea_popescu lmao
16:15 mircea_popescu NOT IN LIKE TEN YEARS
16:16 mircea_popescu but you can talk to the whitequark dood, explain how bot works, see if he can add it.
16:22 asciilifeform whole thread worth reading. presently i have doubt that the project is even worth the candles. ( tldr: there is a nsa rootkit chip on the board )
16:32 mircea_popescu in the rk ?
16:40 asciilifeform not rk
16:40 asciilifeform standalone thing
16:41 asciilifeform ok, d00d left; https://archive.li/FFROT << whole thread snapshot.
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16:41 mod6 yeah, thanks for posting the thread. "just trust the hardware that you have"
16:41 asciilifeform the impatient can read from the end, backwards.
16:42 mod6 It's not long, worth the full read if one has a few extra mins.
16:42 mircea_popescu thanks, was going through the botlink and meh.
16:45 asciilifeform prolly will have to bite the bullet and throw out c101pa , and try the c100pa .
16:45 asciilifeform ( supposing d00d told the truth re the latter )
16:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, "20:18 <amstan> if you're paranoid you can probably cut the ap spi flash and ec spi flash traces around it " << i was thinking, it can be just cut out
16:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope, controls powersupply
16:46 asciilifeform 'glued on with broken glass'(tm)
16:46 mircea_popescu fuck the "controls power supply". how's it gonna fail.
16:46 asciilifeform can't switch on without it
16:47 asciilifeform they rerouted the power button and voltage regulator sequencing, through it.
16:47 mircea_popescu pshaw. i'm willing to pay for the board this is tested on.
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16:47 asciilifeform specifically against uppity orcs
16:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'd happily cut it, but looking at the board, i suspect that they buried the traces
16:47 asciilifeform ( it's a 16-layer pcb )
16:48 mircea_popescu rip the fucking ic off the board.
16:48 asciilifeform ( and will point out, if i have to cut traces on these, the units will be produces at the rate of one per month, likely )
16:48 mircea_popescu sometimes, pencildick designs benefit immensely from liberal application of mailed fist.
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16:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'ma definitely lift it, prior to throwing out board, but suspect that d00d was telling the truth re the power button, it doesn't seem to be routed though the old ec controller any moar
16:49 mircea_popescu a de-alphabet'd item that has no functioning power button is actually acceptable.
16:49 asciilifeform ugh how do you intend to switch the thing on ?
16:49 asciilifeform or is it for use as hammer ? ( it ain't a very good hammer )
16:49 mircea_popescu you'll figure out how to perma-on it and that's that.
16:50 mircea_popescu all this switching bs... not like power needs state.
16:50 asciilifeform prolly worth examining the c100pa 1st
16:50 mircea_popescu notrly, considering it was his suggestion.
16:50 asciilifeform which seems to be an almost exactly same machine ( i had it confused with c100 original ) but sans the cr50
16:50 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/martin-cracauer-is-a-fucking-moron/ << Trilema - Martin Cracauer is a fucking moron.
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16:50 mircea_popescu generally these go like "darling, this is maybe an assfuckin chair you don't object to ?"
16:51 mircea_popescu phf, ^
16:51 asciilifeform should be able to test the truth of the allegation tho.
16:51 mircea_popescu reason he made the suggestion is that he bets on your failing to accurately test it.
16:51 asciilifeform 2015 box ? 2015 box. does have cr50 ? my probe + naked eye, will say
16:51 asciilifeform once it's open
16:59 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/h1_fritz_chip.jpg << suspect, labeled
16:59 asciilifeform very tellingly, 0 datashit on the net, 0 mentions of the part anywhere
17:00 mircea_popescu i expect they're mandated in all usg-"technology" since many years back.
17:00 asciilifeform erry device maker gets own variant, to keep life interesting
17:00 mircea_popescu so no, you're not going to find "a board without". you might find one where it's poorly attached and can be hammered off. but that's all.
17:00 asciilifeform afaik most simply shove it into the cpu die.
17:00 mircea_popescu kinda what i'm saying.
17:01 asciilifeform recall thread where mircea_popescu explained to a n00b, 'even when typhus epidemic rages, does not excuse you from washing hands' ?
17:01 mircea_popescu "oh, use this other one instead, terrorist, as you seem hell bent on breaking the chip off. this other one has it in the die, so you can't see it, will be all good"
17:01 asciilifeform why would 2015 box have it in the die, but 2017 external ?
17:01 asciilifeform or is the idea that the 2015 is fraudulently labeled, and really made last month ?
17:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, my suspicion is that your "no cr 50" will simply mean "they put it in the die of a diff ic, and you can't find it"
17:02 mircea_popescu i don't explain the cockoraches, mr alfstein. i just exterminate them.
17:02 asciilifeform let's recall that the whole thing is an exercise in junkyard wars, i can only stomp the obvious cockroaches
17:03 mircea_popescu what's the full name of this cr50 item btw ?
17:03 asciilifeform it is called cr50. also seems to go by 'h1 secure microcontroller'
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17:03 asciilifeform no public datashit.
17:04 mircea_popescu aka esp-w09 ?
17:04 asciilifeform ( d00d even mentioned, 'we get it with seekrecy')
17:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how do you figure ?
17:04 mircea_popescu i dunno, i'm trying to figure.
17:04 asciilifeform i mean, re 'aka esp-w09'
17:05 asciilifeform i'ma guess you used a search engine and found http://courses.daiict.ac.in/mod/resource/view.php?id=1403 , random indian d00d with no connection
17:06 mircea_popescu i went through list of jtag-sitters, saw that and whatever atmel bs.
17:06 mircea_popescu are you basically saying this is not an ennumerable class ?
17:06 asciilifeform it's a google in-house product.
17:06 asciilifeform ( they dun have, afaik, a fab, the 'TWN' suggests they contracted out to e.g. infineon )
17:07 mircea_popescu i do not beleive it is. i expect they just bought something.
17:07 asciilifeform well, not bought, were issued.
17:07 mircea_popescu and there's not THAT much to buy.
17:07 mircea_popescu yes, but
17:07 asciilifeform they also distribute a ball of src which they ~claim~ (unverifiably, afaik, see thread) runs in it.
17:08 mircea_popescu interesting link btw. what is this, the indians are taking over the usg "compliance" part altogether ? to the point the blather is taught in india but not us ?!
17:08 asciilifeform the chip itself does not match the description of any old fritztron familiar to asciilifeform (e.g. infineon's, intel's)
17:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: link is generic sad, orcish technicum curriculum, doesn't seem to have any useful connection with subj
17:09 mircea_popescu hey, at least it mentions the atmels insistently.
17:09 asciilifeform lol
17:09 mircea_popescu which, afaik, is the most widely deployed fritzchip in empire.
17:09 asciilifeform the #1 choice of tardano vendors, certainly
17:10 asciilifeform at any rate, if d00d was telling even half the truth re 'we had a cpld, in prev machines, and moved it, among else, to cr50 when we got to make own die' then it prolly is not a standard konsoomer loltron.
17:11 asciilifeform the problem is that i cannot answer any useful question about it other than at brainmelting expense ( see the bolix thread ).
17:12 asciilifeform i can heat it to 400C and pull it off the board and see if power still goes ( chances are , it won't, d00d was telling the truth re other boobytraps previously ) , but that's about it.
17:13 asciilifeform this approach threatens to turn the project into 'phd assembly line', sorta half the point of this machine was that it could be conjured up from the konsoomer shelf version with 10min of effort and 100% yield
17:13 asciilifeform even supposing that cr50 were cleanly removable (the designers would have to be idiots, to make it cleanly removable, really)
17:14 asciilifeform anyway it is asciilifeform's teatime, and so i'ma bbl, inclined folx can puzzle over this puzzler .
17:23 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-07#1821238 << crafty little strategy "we built a device with an open EC" "..." "we now have a sikrit cheap making sure our EC is not too open"
17:23 a111 Logged on 2018-06-07 20:41 asciilifeform: ok, d00d left; https://archive.li/FFROT << whole thread snapshot.
17:23 phf *chip
17:24 phf and as much as i sometimes scoff at the lizard hitler suggestion, the whole narrative, tacitly supported by the relevant designer, is very much it.
17:25 phf "hey guys why don't we publish the secret chip bypass? -- what are you, some kind of terrorist/tinfoil??"
~ 17 minutes ~
17:42 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-07#1821267 << right about. i was mostly just embarrassed for him when i read his blog..
17:42 a111 Logged on 2018-06-07 20:50 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/martin-cracauer-is-a-fucking-moron/ << Trilema - Martin Cracauer is a fucking moron.
17:45 mircea_popescu scoff all you want, but as burl ives put it, "it's always there in the morning, ain't it".
17:47 phf it reminded me of how sometimes russian academics had problems with their american peers: some of those russians learned english from VHS, so found it acceptable to use ebonics in speech.
17:48 mircea_popescu that shit's hysterical.
17:48 mod6 lmao
17:48 phf i mean, it's a different scenario, but that must be the feeling americans felt in the situations like that
17:49 mircea_popescu i don't get it, are you proposing german axehandles learned english from special ed courses ?
17:51 phf no no, i'm trying to clarify the sort of embarrassed i felt when i read his blog. but in the case of russians it was misunderstanding, in this case though it's something else entirely..
17:56 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-07#1821289 << https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/7/19/957 https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/7/27/523 (i'm sure ascii saw already, adding for logs)
17:56 a111 Logged on 2018-06-07 21:03 asciilifeform: it is called cr50. also seems to go by 'h1 secure microcontroller'
17:58 mircea_popescu so then cr50 is the firmware, and the hardware is actually some kind of bulk chip ?
18:01 asciilifeform if it's a shelf chip with title sanded off, neither i nor apparently anybody else knows which
18:01 mircea_popescu but i suspect it ~IS~.
18:01 phf that's what it looks like, H1 B2C on ascii's photo. no mentions of it anywhere on nets, outside of google marketing material
18:02 mircea_popescu you mean no mentions google shows you ?
18:02 asciilifeform google had various crapola fabbed in the past, it wouldn't be a first
18:03 mircea_popescu it wouldn't.
18:04 phf right, i did try mouser/digikey first
18:05 asciilifeform i've been looking for it since it was first mentioned in last wk's thread with the d00d
18:05 mircea_popescu i was hoping maybe the firmware might indicate.
18:05 asciilifeform so far no dice, not in ru sphere either
18:06 asciilifeform fw (or what claims to be the fw, i cannot verify re actual iron) is a c proggy, for what looks like an arm
18:06 phf this is the kind of stuff phrack was supposed to talk about, but meanwhile the community was gutted..
18:06 mircea_popescu indeed!
18:06 asciilifeform but this tells us ~nothing to narrow it
18:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, well, it's an 1 in 1 out chip is it ?
18:07 asciilifeform quite likely, the fella was telling the truth, it's a google.nsa die
18:07 mircea_popescu neither of these have fabs.
18:07 asciilifeform what means 1 in 1 out ?
18:07 mircea_popescu nor either of these has the mental acuity to fab.
18:07 mircea_popescu they exist out of "mandating" ie, posturing what the actual people should od.
18:07 asciilifeform stamp reads TWN , taiwan
18:08 asciilifeform lotsa folx have no own fab . e.g. sun microsystems didnt
18:08 asciilifeform owning fab is not usually +ev
18:09 mircea_popescu lotta folks don't have women, owning women is not usually +ev bla bla. virgins.
18:10 mircea_popescu anyway, back to it : the cp50's point of interest is, that it has a connection to power button. this is a single line, is it ?
18:10 asciilifeform vertical integration is a thing, google bought a few power plants; but afaik not fab yet
18:10 asciilifeform not single line, seems to handle the keyboard matrix also ( for reset combo ) and possibly vregs also
18:11 asciilifeform hard to say without schems or xray
18:11 mircea_popescu hm
18:12 asciilifeform pretty strange, that they put the kbd through both
18:12 asciilifeform has the appearance of a hasty and gnarly glue job
18:12 asciilifeform ( why even keep the orig ec )
18:14 mircea_popescu yes. which is also why i think this is where the levee should break
18:16 asciilifeform what does mircea_popescu propose ?
18:16 asciilifeform cuz i'm stumped
18:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-07#1821257 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-07#1821251
18:17 a111 Logged on 2018-06-07 20:48 mircea_popescu: sometimes, pencildick designs benefit immensely from liberal application of mailed fist.
18:17 a111 Logged on 2018-06-07 20:47 mircea_popescu: pshaw. i'm willing to pay for the board this is tested on.
18:17 mircea_popescu smash it out.
18:17 asciilifeform no kbd, no power
18:17 mircea_popescu usb kbd ? short the powerline ?
18:17 asciilifeform matrix kbd
18:17 mircea_popescu i dunno, if it was ACTUALLY apply hammer, i'd have done it myself\
18:17 asciilifeform thing scans it
18:18 asciilifeform it's the kbd cobtrolr
18:18 asciilifeform controller
18:18 phf asciilifeform: smash it out carefully, could mail it to zeptobars, maybe get some idea what sort of beast we're dealing with..
18:18 mircea_popescu something like that.
18:18 mircea_popescu understand, the cost of failure here is minimal.
18:18 asciilifeform phf: they ever did the bolix?
18:18 mircea_popescu not afaik.
18:19 asciilifeform and bolix is a 2um; this thing is prolly 22nm
18:19 asciilifeform one's 50k$ of work, other 5mil
18:19 phf asciilifeform: no need to, i have all the relevant bits, just need to package them for you
18:20 asciilifeform but know what, i'ma lift it before throwing out whole board, for phf
18:21 phf i'm sure a russian with an electron microscope would love nothing more than do a careful job on a bonafide fritz chip
18:21 mircea_popescu let those "warrants" fly
18:21 phf worse case he'll just fail, but probably at the limit of what he can do
18:21 asciilifeform maybe by 2040 he finishes
18:22 mircea_popescu holy shit i'm not waiting that long for nudies.
18:22 asciilifeform hence q, wat do
18:22 * phf afk
18:23 asciilifeform brb
18:23 mircea_popescu me3.
~ 34 minutes ~
18:57 asciilifeform https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/master/board/cr50/ << for threadcompleteness -- the purported src.
18:59 asciilifeform i have reasons to suspect that if it indeed has anything to do with the physical item, it is only partial picture.
19:01 asciilifeform https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/master/board/cr50/gpio.inc << claims to be the i/o mapping .
19:02 asciilifeform the 'PINMUX' bit suggests that the informant d00d was telling the truth, thing indeed controls vreg bringup, at least the 3.3v rail
19:02 asciilifeform ( so far errything he said, such that asciilifeform was able to probe, turned out to be troo. if he's a liar, he's a very high-quality liar )
19:17 asciilifeform https://github.com/coreboot/chrome-ec/blob/master/board/cr50/tpm2/rsa.c#L651 << magic pubkeyz in the rom
~ 15 minutes ~
19:32 asciilifeform https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform/ec/+/master/extra/cr50_rma_open/cr50_rma_open.py << last piece of lulz, for nao: claims to be 'tester's' defuse for the boobytrap. however dun work with my box, it has the 'ccd' console command locked out
19:32 asciilifeform but suggests that the thing is a standard arm chip, with flash ram, that can be rewritten
~ 36 minutes ~
20:08 mircea_popescu indeed.
20:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, phf & anyone in the l1 that cares : should i actually push this http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-07#1821229 thing ?
20:11 a111 Logged on 2018-06-07 20:13 phf: asciilifeform: can they put a bot here so it'll quote for us? :)
20:12 asciilifeform dunno that the game is worth the candles; better to try an' persuade the 1 useful d00d to visit
20:13 asciilifeform ( he seems to log in erry coupla days, i'ma try him next )
20:13 mircea_popescu i mean, the backstop would obviously be "either follow spec as-is or get out of chan", i suppose. i don't specifically care either way, we already have plenty of proper loggers for one thing, and the original, "Hey, maybe someone exists on freenode that's both a) not totally braindead and b) hasn't heard of #trilema yet" was thoroughly proven wrong by now ; the intelligence flow is the other way.
20:13 asciilifeform or do i misread the q
20:13 mircea_popescu how do you read it ?
20:13 asciilifeform and it's about the logger thing, not #rockchip
20:13 mircea_popescu it is about _whitelogger bot following spec and reading out lines.
20:14 asciilifeform aaaaa
20:14 asciilifeform yea theoretically useful
20:14 mircea_popescu odds are it'll result in it leaving, i'm guessing.
20:16 mircea_popescu !!key whitequark\
20:16 deedbot Not registered.
20:16 mircea_popescu !!key whitequark
20:16 deedbot Not registered.
20:16 mircea_popescu i mean, doodn's not even had the common decency to reg up, however many months later.
20:16 mircea_popescu cuz whatever, everyone's speshul and lives life on own terms and whatever geeky bs.
20:17 asciilifeform who runs that thing ?
20:17 mircea_popescu ^
20:17 asciilifeform aa so it's a sad rando anon
20:18 mircea_popescu quantum computing something something, i kinda tuned out past that point.
20:19 asciilifeform snoar
20:20 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-other-dead-things/ the history of it.
20:22 mircea_popescu six months, during which not one reader of irclog.whitequark.org turned out to exist should be amply sufficient data from that angle.
20:23 mircea_popescu but whatever, it's what the empire's got, #lisp is about "lisp" and so on.
20:34 mircea_popescu !!up trinque
20:34 deedbot trinque voiced for 30 minutes.
20:37 mod6 the zeptobars route may be a decent idea. has anyone reached out to that guy?
20:37 mod6 they take bitcoin donations, but, no coins ever sent :[
20:37 mircea_popescu i imagine phf
20:37 mod6 here's their addy posted on their "support" page: 1ZeptoBhGA4wewwVv3BZTYyaBtc87nMNg
20:37 mircea_popescu hey phf, you actually know the fellows ? how about they show up here and work something out ?
20:37 asciilifeform mod6: read end of thread, subj is a ~standard arm with eeprom that ( per my experimentation in past 2hr ) actually does seem to contain something like the linked crapola
20:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i'd still like to get some actual working something out of whatever kanzureism "zeptobar" currently is.
20:38 asciilifeform it doesn't have a magic symmetric key, there's a ecc public sig thing to unlock the boobytrap and, e.g., erase/reprogram the thing
20:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'd luuvvvvv a properly photographed bolix...
20:39 asciilifeform which is just about practical. but 22nm -- don't hold breath
20:39 mircea_popescu right.
20:39 mircea_popescu btw, didja phuctor it ?
20:39 asciilifeform not to mention that it seems to be a ~pogo with eeprom proggy (these dun show on micrograph anyway)
20:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: phuctor dun ecc
20:40 mircea_popescu oh, ecc. of course, of course.
20:40 asciilifeform aaaha
20:40 asciilifeform btw the 'h1' turd is a mass of c crapola, chances are there's an overflow somewhere
20:40 asciilifeform like there was in intel's me
20:40 mircea_popescu you know, it occurs to me... it it's a captive minichip. it should be... defeatable. keep feeding it bad sigs and measure the powerlines.
20:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what's that give ?
20:41 asciilifeform it dun have a seekrit to extract, simply checks pubkey sig
20:41 mircea_popescu yes, but it might give you some code layout maybe ?
20:41 asciilifeform i'm actually ~persuaded that the posted code actually runs
20:41 mircea_popescu ah
20:41 mircea_popescu then nm.
20:42 asciilifeform it's a pretty plain boobytrap, wants magic sig to r/w the 'h1' firmware, or to unlock the console (which gives rootkit access to whole ram, cpu, ec, etc via the usb jack)
20:42 mircea_popescu what is it, 256bit eec key ?
20:42 asciilifeform aha
20:43 mircea_popescu hm.
20:44 mircea_popescu listen, my (often wrong, millitantly ignorant, whatever) intuition is that if oyu have an oracle in your hands (the chip after all DOES say yes or no) and all you want to do is produce a sig it accepts for an arbitrary string, you should be able to achieve this bit fiddling in less than 2^256 tries.
20:45 asciilifeform if i can do this, i think i'll skip the small change and take home satoshi's coinz
20:45 asciilifeform in so far as i can tell, the thing implements plain old 'p256' ecctron
20:45 asciilifeform with no ~obvious~ hole
20:47 mircea_popescu i'd love nothing more than qntra running a "google's ecc crypto defeated in field"
20:47 mircea_popescu but... yeah.
20:48 mircea_popescu anyway... let ~them~ explain how "it was an implementation error -- no fundamental ecc breach".
20:48 mircea_popescu after all the "rsa is broken because we've been misimplementing it for 20 years under our governmentalpg brand hurr" stories, it'd be quite pleasant.
21:01 asciilifeform ... interestingly, the 101 apparently comes with all of the usb debug ~driving~ end crapola, and will happily diddle itself when plugged into... itself
21:01 asciilifeform ( 1 end of hose goes into usbc, other end -- normal usb3 jack between the 2 usbc's )
21:02 mircea_popescu ha
21:02 asciilifeform however still gives eggog '127' when attempting 'usb_updater -U' i.e. 'start unlock sequence'
21:02 asciilifeform same as when driven from real comp (unsurprising)
21:02 mircea_popescu i'm telling you, building a fuzzing harness for a bunch of these may not be a bad way to lock down a machine (driving the fuzzing) for a week or two.
21:03 mircea_popescu the worst case being what, a pile of useless data ? big woop, i have some of that myself, isn't killing me.
21:03 asciilifeform i'm at that magical 'should i throw it out or buy 6'(tm)(r) stage
21:04 mircea_popescu buy 6.
21:05 asciilifeform i could use some eagle eyes on the coad, also
21:05 asciilifeform 1 eagle is worth 9000 'fuzzers'
21:05 mircea_popescu bill s.nsa for 'em and there you go. worst case we have some not-great hammers.
21:06 asciilifeform i'm still curious re mircea_popescu's logic re the older box
21:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, where's the logline of you going "hey, this is confusing to me therefore cryptic to anyone" ?
21:06 mircea_popescu which older box ?
21:06 asciilifeform c100pa
21:06 asciilifeform that the dev d00d mentioned
21:06 asciilifeform how would it make sense for it to be ~moar~ subtly boobied than the 101
21:07 mircea_popescu there's this vicious slander going about according to which i actually use some sort of thought process. i wish to deny such rumours right now.
21:07 mircea_popescu i've not thought a line in my life!
21:07 asciilifeform lol
21:07 esthlos trinque: I added a manifest to my v_genesis vpatch. I'm curious, though, how these items (vtron, manifest) become declared "standard", if ever
21:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: upstack: possibly you were looking for the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595992 thread
21:08 a111 Logged on 2017-01-03 23:07 asciilifeform: there is ~0 actual relationship between 'confusing to the naked eye' and 'crypto-hard'
21:08 mircea_popescu esthlos, there's some discussion, after which i pick something and start asking people nicely / kicking them in the head about it.
21:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, that sentiment, but different words. 2015ish vintage i tihnk
21:08 esthlos sounds good
21:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: almost definitely in the symmetrics thread
21:09 mircea_popescu hm, that's a thought
21:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474768 possibly.
21:10 a111 Logged on 2016-06-01 17:43 asciilifeform: 'aes is hard to break' 'says who' 'says me, i haven't broken it yet'
21:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-04#1396415
21:11 a111 Logged on 2016-02-04 17:30 ascii_butugychag: 'this was confusing to ME' is the basis, EVERY MOTHERFUCKING TIME
21:11 asciilifeform aha!
21:11 asciilifeform it
21:11 mircea_popescu i forgot you're polynymic.
21:11 asciilifeform yea it was definitely while asciilifeform was in butugychag
21:12 mircea_popescu sprucing up the dummkopf article ; apparently i hadn't put enough links in there, counterintuitively.
21:12 * asciilifeform just nao ate it
21:13 asciilifeform btw, curious what mircea_popescu's allergy to 'short ooda loop' is. for instance, mircea_popescu , like asciilifeform , seems to have thrown out his film camera, uses electronic one. why not use film, if 'short ooda loop is for lamers' ?
21:13 asciilifeform film , for the money, beats the living shit out of digicam
21:13 mircea_popescu then they wonder why they don't ever have any gfs, these people. "i tried to evaluate whether she's my gf in a second or less, came out negative" "maybe give it i dunoo... FIVE DAYS ?" "omfg what ? i don't like... live that long"
21:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, i am at no point in there hating on short ooda loop. i am hating on the idiocy he surrounds it with.
21:14 asciilifeform ok this is where i admit that i have not read the orig idjicy..
21:14 mircea_popescu pro tip : photographs taken today are shittier than photographs taken on film. who dun it ?
21:14 asciilifeform verily
21:14 mircea_popescu "but mp... i ~copuld~ take better pics today than in 1970. point in case -- i didn't even TAKE pics back then"
21:14 asciilifeform film gives you, what, equiv of 20-30 'megapixel' for phree
21:14 asciilifeform moar, if you have a largeformat cam
21:14 * mircea_popescu 's head explodes.
21:15 asciilifeform asciilifeform was one of those weirdos with massive pile of film, and even trunk of old photo gear
21:15 mircea_popescu no but see, all the faggots that take pics today and didn't in 1970 are exactly all the faggots that couldn't read books before they were made on pulp paper by pulp paper book makers.
21:16 * asciilifeform regularly has this convo thread with pet, 'books sucked less when they had to be stitchbound'
21:16 mircea_popescu i saw a terrible film recently, with doris day. something something bla bla bla. she spends the whole time in an ugly looking deerskin.
21:16 mircea_popescu HOWEVER. she can dance. she can sing. because she's a 1950s actress, and that was a PROFESSION which MEANT SOMETHING.
21:17 asciilifeform sorta reminiscent of the old rifle thread ( 'good old days, 7.62x54mm mosin, back when people could still aim, make every pop count' )
21:20 mircea_popescu you know i recently googled a pic, and google helpfully informed me who the, and i quote, "reality television personality, model, entrepreneur, socialite, and social media personality" involved were ?
21:20 mircea_popescu and i was sitting there in disbelief, "dude, it's two milf lamers in a tub, what the fuck".
21:21 mircea_popescu jordyn ?! fucking seriously ?!
21:21 * asciilifeform sadly entirely unfamiliar with subj
21:22 mircea_popescu point remains, two bit everything all around. that's your "short ooda loop". it's a lot closer to cocaine than the users realise.
21:22 asciilifeform it's the old flies-and-cutlets thread
21:22 asciilifeform meat in the sun.
21:23 asciilifeform there is not a mechanical cure for the need to exclude vermin
21:23 asciilifeform which, yes, will be irresistibly attracted to tasties
21:24 mircea_popescu right. so you know, my allergy "to the short ooda loop" is all the flies going "o man, this is great! yay!". it's not to the fucking meat, i eat steak tartare every so often
21:24 mircea_popescu but i also don't like to hear that buzzing sound.
21:24 asciilifeform makes sense.
21:24 mircea_popescu "corpse whistle" or however you call it.
21:25 asciilifeform https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/tpm2/+/master << for aficionados. the crypto, such as they are, routines in the cr50 thing. ( even seems to include a kind of orc rsa )
21:26 mircea_popescu anyway ; i thought that point comes through, but maybe not as well as i'd have wanted.
21:27 asciilifeform there was an old thread, with the heavy roman lorica
21:27 asciilifeform can't seem to find it nao
21:27 mircea_popescu and the "too heavy" helmets ?
21:27 asciilifeform them
21:28 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2018/heres-how-pantsuitism-christianity-ruined-civilisation-in-both-the-ancient-and-the-modern-world/#selection-109.0-109.1154
21:28 asciilifeform yes! it
21:29 asciilifeform iirc there was a continuation, where , something like asciilifeform:'lorica oughta be heavy, but from iron, not lead weights' and mircea_popescu:~'but only the centurion who wears it should get to decide why heavy'
21:29 asciilifeform or perhaps i dreamed this.
21:29 mircea_popescu there is such a thing as ankle weights. my slavegirls should know, they get them lots.
21:29 mircea_popescu that -- heavy from lead.
21:30 asciilifeform there are, 'тяжело в учении -- легко в бою'(tm)(r)
21:30 mircea_popescu "but mp, why does girl need to wear 5kgs of ankle weight for hours on end ?" "so when i fuck her, her knees are straight"
21:31 mircea_popescu and btw, the idiot airport guards keep slicing the weights. cuz it's by now so rare an item i guess, "gotta see what's inside".
21:31 asciilifeform 'could be plutonium' lol
21:32 mircea_popescu well... it basically is shotgun shot.
21:32 asciilifeform i suppose anyffin that dun xray properly, is insta-suspicious to the derps
21:32 asciilifeform could contain whatever, in the middle of lead sphere
21:32 mircea_popescu yeah. it contains nice ass, in the middle of the lead sphere.
21:32 asciilifeform then obvious why they'd like to search
21:32 asciilifeform 'lemme inspect this'
21:33 mircea_popescu lol. if only.
21:34 mircea_popescu but yes, re the тяжело в учении -- легко в бою bit -- it comes as a shock generally that "your training must ~exceed~ actual usage, by a ~factor~. you don't train for 80% of what you'll do ; you train for 250% to 300%+ of what you'll actually do."
21:34 mircea_popescu then, легко в бою indeed.
21:34 asciilifeform upstack, before i start to fall asleep -- what do we wanna do in re the c101 ? march on with curing the 'ordinary' boot rom, and then sit on the thing pending a successful break of the cr50 booby ? shelf whole thing ? which'll it be
21:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, do you suspect the core can actually talk to the netbridge ?
21:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it can rewrite the boot rom, is what i know for certain so far
21:35 asciilifeform but i've not found a remote trigger for it. (dun mean there isn't one)
21:36 mircea_popescu yes, but it seems to me it's basically a local rootkit. so it's not such an overwhelming concern for the contemplated usecase -- give iphone girly machine.
21:36 asciilifeform i suspect the thing exists mainly to 1) help 'law enforce' folx pry passwords from unwilling patient's box 2) persistence nest for assorted usgologies installed via pwned userland
21:36 asciilifeform it's pretty much same as intel 'me'
21:36 mircea_popescu so in a sense it's up to you. if you've lost the love of labour because of the cp50 issue, i guess it dies. but if not, i do not see it's a waste of time. make it boot cleanly, try see what happens if you remove the item, try see what happens if you fuzz the item, maybe more stuff occurs -- this is a productive line of research.
21:36 mircea_popescu or so i deem.
21:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, you're probably right.
21:37 asciilifeform i'ma carry on with curing the bootloader then. and when 'h1' pops, it pops, we get clean box
21:37 asciilifeform or who knows, 'the horse may die' etc.
21:37 mircea_popescu something like that.
21:37 asciilifeform aite, worx
21:37 asciilifeform the 1.8v spi probing rig comes in next wk.
21:38 mircea_popescu anyway, can also prep a boot rom that has a canary.
21:39 asciilifeform elaborate
21:39 asciilifeform ( what means here, canary )
21:39 mircea_popescu i dunno, have the boot flash a pink pixel, put a number on screen, whatever. replacement boot sequence won't know to do it, will it.
21:40 asciilifeform aa in that sense yes
21:40 mircea_popescu so then you know it's been flashed.
21:40 mircea_popescu >0.
21:40 asciilifeform fwiw the boot rom reads from linux's ordinary spi driver, in userland
21:41 mircea_popescu in more general terms, if you had to dismantle every organisation the moment it had a mole in it... there'd be no organisations ever.
21:41 asciilifeform ( i.e. 'h1' does not sit , as far as i can tell, between cpu and bootrom , but rather sits on the bus )
21:41 mircea_popescu this is the common design, neh ?
21:42 asciilifeform on x86 boxen, southbridge usually sits directly between cpu and bios rom
21:42 asciilifeform ( given as x86 cpu does not know how to speak spi/lpc/etc )
21:42 mircea_popescu no but these are arms. i thought this is what arm mostly is, bridge-wise.
21:45 asciilifeform there seem to be 4 onboard busses in the thing; ram ( just cpu and dram ) ; pci ( occupied by 80211 chip , you prolly could safely pull it out, even sits on conveniently protruding bit of pcb ) ; spi ( connects to : cpu; boot rom; ec ; 'h1' ) ; i2c ( connects to cpu ; 'h1' ; voltage regs ) .
21:45 asciilifeform this is to count only the onboard (i.e. excluding usb)
21:46 asciilifeform iirc the audio dac sits on i2c also
21:46 asciilifeform this is currently best picture i have ( wish i had the schem... )
21:47 mircea_popescu honesrtly i'd still rather get this than "go to store buy intel chip"
21:47 asciilifeform yea
21:48 asciilifeform so far i did find how to disable #wp signal on the h1 ( it tracks the battery-triggered #wp ). the way updater works, it permits flashing in any old turd, and it goes in a temp slot, which only on next boot gets ecc-sigchecked
21:48 asciilifeform potentially we find a hole in this process.
21:49 mircea_popescu this is conceivable.
21:49 asciilifeform if can find , e.g., overflow, then can have whatever payload waiting there to be jumped into.
21:49 mircea_popescu honestly, i don't expect either elegance or smoothness come out of the haphazard antidesign style of google et all.
21:49 asciilifeform ( which is less painful than if nothing could be shat into it to begin with )
21:49 mircea_popescu something somewhere's crackin'.
21:49 asciilifeform it's a massive ball o'shit
21:50 asciilifeform and the contents do seem to correspond, at least partially, to the published src. so there's definitely something to work against.
21:50 asciilifeform ( hey douchebag ! )
21:50 mircea_popescu lol srsly.
21:51 mircea_popescu contrary to your respective inclinations, you two'd actually make a great team. very bias-mismatched.
21:51 asciilifeform i used to work with a roughly similar fella, so yes, agree
21:52 asciilifeform now if he can be arisen from his arse...
21:54 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
~ 17 minutes ~
22:11 mircea_popescu in other holy shit... google returns my own stored image if you try and find the "porch monkey" thing. jesus f. the web is pointless.
~ 17 minutes ~
22:29 mircea_popescu "NEW YORK, June 05, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- The Nasdaq Stock Market announced today that it will delist the common stock of Long Blockchain Corp. Long Blockchain Corp.’s stock was suspended on April 12, 2018 and has not traded on Nasdaq since that time. "
22:29 mircea_popescu in other news nobody carted about.
22:41 mircea_popescu meanwhile at the beach, https://78.media.tumblr.com/d8b02d8788229d446afa7d98ff438d22/tumblr_oxei6oXluN1ubezpxo1_1280.jpg
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