#trilema | 2016-02-13

00:00

kakobrekla in fairness he prolly never actually met something like this yet.

00:01

the one thing the block chain can do is move arbitrary numbers between arbitrary addresses and this works because it all exists totally within itself. The problem with trying to mesh this with things not-in-the-block-chain is that they do not have to obey the rules set forth therein

00:02

danielpbarron

"this smart contract says x" "so what?" *clubs head*

00:06

danielpbarron

blockchain_enthu, I'd re-voice you but I can't think of anything else of interest to add here. If anyone else wants to take a turn...

00:07

punkman

!up blockchain_enthu

00:07

blockchain_enthu

Thanks punkman

00:09

blockchain_enthu

the only counter point I'd like to make here is this: even though real world items do not follow rules like bitcoins do, but there is a whole system (read legal system) which allows people to do transactions and move things around

00:10

blockchain_enthu

and so, this would require recognition of block chain transactions as valid transactions in real world

00:10

punkman

one interesting thing would be land deeds notarized on the bitcoin chain

00:11

blockchain_enthu

punkman, how do you imagine that would work?

00:11

00:00	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla in fairness he prolly never actually met something like this yet.
00:01	danielpbarron	the one thing the block chain can do is move arbitrary numbers between arbitrary addresses and this works because it all exists totally within itself. The problem with trying to mesh this with things not-in-the-block-chain is that they do not have to obey the rules set forth therein
00:02	danielpbarron	"this smart contract says x" "so what?" clubs head
00:06	danielpbarron	blockchain_enthu, I'd re-voice you but I can't think of anything else of interest to add here. If anyone else wants to take a turn...
00:07	punkman	!up blockchain_enthu
00:07	blockchain_enthu	Thanks punkman
00:09	blockchain_enthu	the only counter point I'd like to make here is this: even though real world items do not follow rules like bitcoins do, but there is a whole system (read legal system) which allows people to do transactions and move things around
00:10	blockchain_enthu	and so, this would require recognition of block chain transactions as valid transactions in real world
00:10	punkman	one interesting thing would be land deeds notarized on the bitcoin chain
00:11	blockchain_enthu	punkman, how do you imagine that would work?
00:11	mircea_popescu	nobody cares about the legal system
00:11	mircea_popescu	it's more obsolete than democracy / marriage / working the fields with your hands.
00:12	danielpbarron	that's more of a WoT thing than a block chain thing, and we're back to betters beating losers
00:12	punkman	if you have jurisdiction over an area of land, not a bad thing to do.
00:12	mircea_popescu	if you do you wouldn't call it that.
00:13	punkman	call what
00:13	mircea_popescu	"jurisdiction"
00:14	punkman	what's a better word?
00:14	mircea_popescu	not a matter of word picking, i'm just making the point that there's no benefit for the new lord importing the old gunk.
00:14	blockchain_enthu	isn't land deeds prepared by only one authority?
00:15	blockchain_enthu	how does block chain make it any different?
00:16	mircea_popescu	it's not yet established that "land ownership" by the torens method has any room in the future.
00:17	mircea_popescu	moreover, currently afaik most of the us runs on the barbaric title-deed mechanism anyway.
00:17	mircea_popescu	so no - no central authority whatsoever.
00:23	punkman	what if you are the king of malta?
00:26	blockchain_enthu	anyway, i think i'll have to read up a lot more before i contribute to the discussion here. Thanks all for sharing your thoughts.
00:26	mircea_popescu	i dunno, what if ?
00:26	mircea_popescu	you mean the sovereign of the order or what ?
00:32	punkman	no, the sovereign of the island, and now you want to sell land to people
00:33	mircea_popescu	sell as in how ?
00:33	mircea_popescu	let them use it for as long as they pay you the rent ?
00:34	punkman	not lease
00:35	mircea_popescu	but ?
00:39	mircea_popescu	"we grant, and of our liberality we bountifully bestow upon the aforesaid Very Reverend Grand Master of the Religion and Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, in feudal perpetuity, noble, free and unencumbered, our cities, castles, places and islands of Tripoli, Malta and Gozo, with all their cities, castles, places and island territories; with pure and mixed jurisdiction, right, and property of useful government; with po
00:39	mircea_popescu	wer of life and death over males and females residing within their limits, and with the laws, constitutions, and rights now existing amongst the inhabitants; together with all other laws and rights, exemptions, privileges, revenues and other immunities whatsoever; so that they may hereafter hold them in feudal tenure from us, as Kings of both Sicilies, and from our successors in the same kingdom, reigning at the time,
00:39	mircea_popescu	under the sole payment of a falcon; which every year, on the Feast of All Saints, shall be presented by the person or persons duly authorised for that purpose, into the hands of the Viceroy or President, who may at that time be administering the government, in sign and recognition of feudal tenure; and having made that payment, they shall remain exempt and free from all other service claimable by law, and by custom per
00:39	mircea_popescu	formed by feudal vassals"
00:39	mircea_popescu	that's how malta was originally acquired from the monarch of sicily.
00:42	punkman	not sure I have any nonstupid questions or answers on the topic
00:43	mircea_popescu	let's leave it at "property is a complicated thing" then.