#trilema | 2015-07-04

yeah I think we were forked a long time ago actually

00:00

this getconsensus stuff is lulzy

00:03

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186461 << sync at line speed

00:03

Logged on 04-07-2015 03:50:47; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: anybody interested in multiprocessorizing bitcoin sig check ? << i don't see the benefit.

00:03

is the benefit.

00:03

having to wait for cpu on a 16 core box is retarded.

00:03

asciilifeform listen, seems the chain actually forked.

00:03

i see

00:03

none of my nodes verify the imaginary 737-738 blockchain.info claims to exist.

00:05

somebody was saying bitcoind doesn't build on a 32 bit system?

00:05

phf: pogo is 32bit

00:05

builds beautifully

00:05

accepted connection 148.251.238.178:55366

00:05

version message: version 70002, blocks=363738

00:05

ah

00:06

363738 16 minutes3204,982.79 BTC BitFury 180.66

00:06

363737 21 minutes1663,059.67 BTC BW.COM 65.25

00:06

anyone actually see these ?

00:06

axe-time, sword-time

00:07

seems so.

00:08

i guess they eventually settled on pretending it's an accident or what ?

00:08

FORK

00:08

FORK?

00:08

FORK!

00:08

forkforkforkforkfork

00:08

0.8 sees the phork

00:08

ph0rk

00:08

phr0k

00:09

i dun see another peer other than the 148 above that claims to have 738

00:09

r4ngn4phr0k

00:09

[ This is the only occurrence ]

00:09

anyone see one ?

00:09

*

asciilifeform envious of mircea_popescu's spiffy ph0rkdebugger

00:09

( cat debug.log | grep -B3 "blocks=363738" if nothing else)

00:10

but yes, i've had sync scrolling for says, and seeing quite a few 'nonstandard tx, rejected...'

00:10

yes, but those happen all teh time

00:10

yes.

00:11

https://blockchain.info/blocks << apparently they orphaned everything past bw.com's https://blockchain.info/block-height/363730

00:11

Blocks mined on 04/07/2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXfKfp )

00:11

Bitcoin Blocks At Height 363730 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXfLQv )

00:12

looks a lot like a withholding chain attack tbh

00:12

363741 on 0.8

00:12

note the orphaned is 8 blocks long

00:12

the "lonmger chain" 6.

00:12

sorry, i mean 6 and 5.

00:13

anbd how teh fuck does it continue on an orphan block anyway

00:13

"However, this also means they're not checking the new BIP66 rule, and are now mining invalid blocks because of it. (another miner happened to create an invalid, non-BIP66 respecting block) If you're not using Bitcoin Core, you might be accepting transactions that won't be on the longest valid chain when all this is fixed." << curious to see if 0.5.whatever comes out on top at the end of this

00:14

my position being "if your notion of a valid block has to patch 0.5.*, get fucked."

00:14

^

00:14

yeah but this apparently happened awhile ago

00:14

when they put the IsSuperMajority code check in

00:14

ben_vulpes tjhat's the only position.

00:14

i did say, no?

00:14

"The majority of hashing power is mining an invalid chain - it's not going to "win" - they're just wasting their effort." << euheuheuheuheuheheehueheuheuheehu

00:15

"new bip66 rule" my foot.

00:15

shitgnomatic bitcoin has been a fork since gavin turned

00:15

and likely prior.

00:15

anyway.

00:15

simple rehash of the "let's probe network cohesion strength" fork

00:15

a fork that hasn't sprung yet is still fok

00:15

ben_vulpes wait, the usg dept of stupid is now on the record that miners don't, after all, decide ?

00:15

fork

00:15

so what, f2pool and phrenz dies next week?

00:15

can they make up their mind or something ?

00:15

nigga pleez

00:16

anyway, foundation ppl : plox to make a statement on this matter

00:16

"Except BIP 66 received 95% support from the relevant group (miners). " << ehuehuehehueeueueueueueeeee

00:16

gotta explain to the masses 1) how irresponsible it is to empower scammers, whjether they call themselves "pirate", "Gavin" or anything else

00:16

and 2) retty much that.

00:16

*

ben_vulpes sighs

00:16

3) не шагу назад

00:16

(tm) (r) (stalin)

00:17

asciilifeform: translation plox?

00:17

'not one step back'

00:17

not a step bac

00:17

the title of a 'papal bull' he signed during the war

00:18

BIP66 protocol rule changes have gone active in part thanks to Antpool and F2Pool's support of it - but their pool appears to not actually be enforcing the new rules, and is now mining invalid blocks << lulzy.

00:18

"we just sittin' here noddin'"

00:18

Bitcoin 0.5.3 is the canonical reference implementation. If a fork occurs and one side validates on the 0.5.3 codebase while the other does not, the chain that validates under 0.5.3 is the only valid chain.

00:19

Bitcoin Core (after 0.10.0) rejects these invalid blocks, but a lot of other stuff doesn't. SPV Bitcoinj wallets do no validation what-so-ever, blindly following the longest chain. blockchain.info doesn't appear to do validation as well; who knows what else? <<

00:19

anyway, todd is right. the only way this affects us is that we don't really give much of a shit.

00:19

mod6 if you feel compelled to elaborate on this, go ahead.

00:19

let 'em figure out how to do soft forks or w/e.

00:19

i have a porch of meatwot and babes that actually need attending to.

00:19

frantic action is for the impotent.

00:19

i have nfi how the power rangers imagine they'll manage a hardfork when they can't as much as get a "relevant support" softwork that's fairly uncontroversial.

00:20

i've not yet accepted this soft/hardfork duality.

00:20

^

00:20

things either validate under 0.5.whatever or they don't.

00:20

well, any people can at any time decide to narrow the rules. this makes some sense.

00:20

they claim this is a softfork

00:20

hard fork is enlarging the rules.

00:20

ben_vulpes all thios would validate under .5

00:20

actually I think this is gonna be fine on 0.5

00:21

the idea is they don't want to see some stuff that validates anymore

00:21

this is no skin off my back, who cares.

00:21

too bad, fuck them.

00:21

<+ben_vulpes> Bitcoin 0.5.3 is the canonical reference implementation. If a fork occurs and one side validates on the 0.5.3 codebase while the other does not, the chain that validates under 0.5.3 is the only valid chain. << I have nothing further to add to this at this time.

00:21

the problem is that 0.5.3 blocks generated by 0.5.3 won't validate if those IfSuperMajority rules check

00:21

decimation provided their "mine support" actually materializes

00:21

otherwise, no.

00:21

well actually yes

00:21

because they already did a 'softfork' on the nVersion

00:21

I'm not sure if there are enough blocks to trigger it

00:22

T.I.A.S. (tm) (r) (#emacs)

00:22

mircea_popescu: anyone can narrow the rules, but whether that's "bitcoin" is an open question.

00:24

i dun see it. the rule is "come to school dressed". if you all agree to wear skirts or all agree to wear cardigans, it's still school.

00:24

*

ben_vulpes is also curious to see how much "political capital" the derpdation burns today

00:25

if (block.nVersion < 2 && IsSuperMajority(2, pindexPrev, consensusParams.nMajorityRejectBlockOutdated, consensusParams))

00:25

o yea. that's part's gonna be epic.

00:25

ben_vulpes knows full well that it'll be blamed on 'wreckers'

00:25

primarily, me.

00:25

lmao right.

00:25

get out.

00:25

:P

00:25

i never did anything, we all know that. joke's almost too easy.

00:26

"Updating to the latest when what you have works is how you break things.

00:26

"

00:26

anyway, this is jit to lay kakobrekla's wonderments to rest.

00:26

happy pappy ?

00:26

"They're not running full nodes because the current 500KB blocks are too big.

00:26

"

00:26

ehueh

00:27

lmao

00:27

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32404 @ 0.00051768 = 16.7749 BTC [+]

00:27

reddit, for all the silencing and muting of the actual bitcoin foundation, seems to be turning the corner on sense

00:27

this is such a goatfucked moment for teh schmucks...

00:27

"Most likely this is caused by broken-by-design-for-profit mining code, but none of their stuff is open source AFAIK. Maybe more details will be known with time."

00:27

<< lukejr

00:28

;;later tell lukejr listen you gotta stop it wiht this "i can tell miners what's right and wrong" bs

00:28

The operation succeeded.

00:28

why ? he's a god fearing rotinculo from wisconsin or whatever.

00:28

on the record having lied for profit and all that good stuff, but why should anything matter.

00:29

man all i can do is nail this coffin closed

00:29

one goddamn nail at a time

00:29

hey kakobrekla how much can i cram into a rating field?

00:29

wait for'em all to get in

00:29

before nailin'.

00:29

asciilifeform: nodeps!

00:30

i want a man in the ground, i don't make that dependent on his wife squirting or w/e

00:30

Uh oh all these block explorers just flipped over to the invalid chain:

00:30

http://btc.blockr.io/ <-- (seems to be flip flopping between the two chains)

00:30

... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBp8L )

00:30

https://blockchain.info/

00:30

Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBp8O )

00:30

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/

00:30

Bitcoin Block Exporer | BlockCypher ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBp8Q )

00:30

Explorers on the good chain:

00:30

https://insight.bitpay.com/

00:30

... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBoBM )

00:30

https://chain.com/

00:30

Bitcoin API - Chain ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBoBO )

00:30

loller

00:31

https://archive.is/fFMZr for later.

00:31

PSA: F2Pool is mining INVALID blocks : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaBqJG )

00:32

"Current status: F2Pool still broken; Antpool fixed (but no promise they won't intentionally re-break in the future)." is really all that one needs to lol

00:32

this is the dumbest fucking thing I've seen in all my years with bitcoin

00:32

if there's any reason why bitcoin will never be adopted, it's this kind of shit

00:32

"re-break"?

00:32

nah, the "we'll move to this new db system one schmuck that gofer'd coffee at google wrote with his chest hairs and nobody tested in any way" was the stupidest sahit

00:33

meaning adopt the power ranger braindamage again?

00:33

but the "we'll make wallet a plaintext file" and the "we'll target windows" and the "you know what's better than boost ? qt!" were pretty epic turn points too

00:33

shinohai: you around?

00:33

shinohai: is your v0.5.3.1-RELEASE node up to dayte?

00:33

i don't think any sane nodes can be up to date atm, until this resolves.

00:34

i doubt anything can ever beat the 'i'll use c++, and on vs for good measure' moment

00:34

anyway, having been duly amused for the evening, i retire to my eulorean empire.

00:34

trinque: do you have a RI up-to-date?

00:34

errr what's up to date?

00:34

i got one that's a few hrs away from sync

00:34

I have a stator build

00:34

the hope was to find if he can verify if v0.5.3.1 rejected or accepted the blocks in question; 363738

00:34

synced

00:35

ah no sir

00:35

just deleted muh blockchain to resync

00:35

mine is currently sync'ing against mp's seed.

00:35

plz foar not to buhlete!

00:35

I have others

00:35

cp ~/.bitcoin.bak/

00:35

this laptop has not infinite gigs

00:36

ah mhm.

00:36

how's btcd handling r4gn4phr0k?

00:37

the who and the whatnow?

00:37

was syncing pretty quick, but I stopped and deleted for to be syncing against mircea_popescu's node

00:38

got to like 150k I think before I stopped

00:38

no no the conformal impl

00:38

i thought you were running a conformal impl somewhere

00:38

I am, how is it handling what though

00:38

you got too 1337 on me

00:38

there's a ph0rk in progress

00:38

oh!

00:38

lemme see muh logz

00:38

check ur lawgz bru

00:38

yeh just got home

00:39

i'm nominally on vaycay but...panzer

00:39

REORGANIZE

00:39

quite a bit of that.

00:39

euhue

00:39

EXTEND FORK

00:39

*

ben_vulpes has never seen a reorg happen live

00:39

would the logs be interesting in any way?

00:39

can paste

00:39

sure, dpaste 'em up for maxtime

00:40

kk

00:40

foar posterity and posteriors

00:40

gavin alert out

00:41

ugh man i kinda hate this

00:41

"the chain that is the real chain is the chain that verifies under 0.5.3"

00:41

this is almost as bad as defining a word with the word to be defined

00:41

ben_vulpes: we're doing war, not mathematics

00:42

enemy is defined by pointing 'that one'

00:42

'the fella shooting our way'

00:44

man chrome sucks at big pastes

00:44

trinque: host it y'self.

00:45

'you may not be interested in a fork, but...'

00:45

mircea_popescu, mod6, asciilifeform: i don't see a reason to make this much more than 25 words. do you think much detail or polemic is necessary here?

00:45

25 oughta do

00:46

'who comes to us with a fork, shall die by the fork'

00:46

better to say less until we know wtf is going on

00:46

http://dpaste.com/02M3YRK.txt

00:46

... ( http://bit.ly/1eqM1hS )

00:46

*

mod6 looks

00:47

perhaps a hash of the codebase instead of the semver crap?

00:47

*

ben_vulpes is somewhat at sea w/r/t propaganda semantics

00:47

I would say that on its face, bip66 isn't such a terrible idea

00:47

but the way it's being forced is pretty stupid

00:47

http://dpaste.com/2KR17VF.txt << btcd log of 2015/07/03 fork

00:47

... ( http://bit.ly/1eqM7Gq )

00:47

if gavinists bring cure for cancer - it is bad idea.

00:48

this is an absolute.

00:48

s/must be considered/is a/ ?

00:48

yeah, it's not the bip66 issue, it's the mechanism they inserted for forcing change

00:48

er /is an/

00:48

mod6: myeah entirely.

00:49

'bip66' is a grappling hook, yes

00:49

well this signature issue is tricky as shit already - openssl is already blowing up validating the chain with anything other than...

00:49

what was the version number of openssl we determined necessary to validate the full chain?

00:49

1.0.1g

00:49

ty, 1.0.1g

00:49

otherwise we had issues on 168`001 iirc

00:49

*

mod6 doublechecks the SoBAs

00:50

stator built on 1.0.1g.

00:50

for this reason.

00:50

'please sir, accept my resonable patch in exchange for agreeing to forever accept what 'our mechanism' brings'

00:50

this is why shitgnomes are to be written out of the script permanently and unconditionally

00:50

although as I've noted, they already incremented this machine

00:50

yeah here: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000055.html

00:50

... ( http://bit.ly/1RaCpJW )

00:50

regardless of what they bring, or claim to bring, or promise to bring, to the table

00:51

political, rather than technical decision

00:51

(for as long as it carries under 'technical', the weasels can whine, wheedle, emit 'reasonable reasonings', even persuade the persuadable)

00:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00052134 = 4.2229 BTC [+]

00:51

political - and absolute. like blade of guillotine.

00:52

asciilifeform: I can already hear jwz saying that he doesn't want politics, just to do the right thing

00:52

mod6, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/367HMKF.txt

00:52

... ( http://bit.ly/1RaCwFj )

00:52

must be considered-> is an

00:52

nice

00:53

an informal signoff from y'bosses would be nice before i deposit this in the white porcelain turdotron

00:53

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33230 @ 0.0005207 = 17.3029 BTC [-] {2}

00:54

*

ben_vulpes was looking through recent "bitcoin-core" pull requests, found many integration testing scripts

00:54

looks like the shitgnomes have been working overtime to address my complaints.

00:54

*

ben_vulpes is amused, but not honored. if ye'd only had actual management once upon a time, this'd not be a notable achievement.

00:54

;;later tell gavinandresen ^^

00:55

The operation succeeded.

00:55

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#985338 < I think this is what he was talking about (nVersion)

00:55

Logged on 21-01-2015 02:48:11; Luke-Jr: it can't, if you don't have the 0.8.1 hardfork patched in..

00:55

err, no that was the bdb lock thing

00:56

ok mp says he can see signing that statement ben_vulpes. go ahead, he'll even sign later when he gets on his other box.

00:56

fire at will.

00:56

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#985356 << this still hurts, every time i see it

00:56

Logged on 21-01-2015 02:59:30; mod6: it was selected because "reasons"

00:57

'...let the motherfucker burn'

00:57

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33267 @ 0.00052134 = 17.3434 BTC [+]

00:58

<+ben_vulpes> << this still hurts, every time i see it << awe!

01:00

ah fml

01:00

whatup?

01:00

deedbot wru

01:01

trinque: whar deedbot

01:01

where did this consensus shit enter into the code base?

01:01

anyway, you think i should have just called him out instead of saying "reasons"?

01:02

or what hurts?

01:02

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84850 @ 0.00052155 = 44.2535 BTC [+] {2}

01:03

"reasons" being that i wrote a blog post saying "i don't think much happened after this"

01:03

http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000114.html << ahaha fattest fingers.

01:03

... ( http://bit.ly/1RaCYUe )

01:04

ah...

01:04

yeah, i should have just pointed him to your blog.

01:04

my bad.

01:05

lol

01:05

those hafta be the 2 derpiest typos of my life.

01:05

anyways

01:10

awaken.

01:11

ben_vulpes: ^

01:11

ben_vulpes: guess what else I'll be rewriting in cl at some point.

01:12

the golang part gets into some dumb state where it wont reconnect.

01:13

deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1P0JEFS.txt

01:13

... ( http://bit.ly/1eqOLMh )

01:13

deedbot-

accepted: 1

01:13

at any rate this whole rejection machine can be permanantly jammed by setting nversion to MAX_INT

01:16

deedbot-: http://cascadianhacker.com/ph0rk.txt

01:16

... ( http://bit.ly/1eqP2yI )

01:16

deedbot-

accepted: 1

01:20

I'm fairly certain that if 0.5.3.1 were used to mine a block with nVerion=1 it would be rejected

01:21

as more than 950 blocks have passed since the first instance of the IsSuperMajority machine being used

01:22

thanks ben_vulpes

01:22

i put it out there on derp-media too

01:26

I would also note that the bitcoind github commits and comments lie about the IsSuperMajority machine. They say that the mandatory rejection won't take effect until 95% of the blocks are incremented - but in fact it's only 950

01:28

950 out of the last 1000 blocks

01:29

hardly 'consensus' in view of the 363000 block history of bitcoin

01:32

which amounts to one week of 'voting window'

01:32

one week out of years of doing things a certain way

01:38

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16414 @ 0.0005214 = 8.5583 BTC [-] {2}

01:42

at any rate this mechanism dates back to 2012 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1525 and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1526

01:42

Use CTransaction/CBlock version numbers for smoother upgrades by gavinandresen · Pull Request #1525 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LNKrVq )

01:42

Transition to requiring block height in block coinbases by gavinandresen · Pull Request #1526 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LNKrVs )

01:45

which would have been released in 0.7rc1 roughly

01:48

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.0005145 = 26.2395 BTC [-] {3}

01:49

decimation: 1000 blocks is a couple percent of all work done ever on the entire blockchain since inception, and the current hashrate could rewrite the entire history up to something like august 2014 in somewhere close to the span of time that non-vote took place over, times a very small number. :( unfortunately.

01:50

oh look

01:50

this machine is braindamaged in my opinion

01:50

a midnightmagic

01:50

at any rate, it's not like you couldn't jam it by changing nversion to an arbitrary value

01:50

decimation: srsly.

01:50

magic numbers and magic thinking.

01:50

to spite, you could even pick a value between 4 and MAX_INT randomly

01:50

another value for derpfiguration.

01:50

euhue

01:51

i'm just saying that it sounds like a little bit in comparison to both time, and integerial block height, but actual work-wise it a significant chunk. again, very unfortunately.

01:51

ha, stator build on openbsd i386

01:51

midnightmagic: this is a basic feature of integrals and curves.

01:52

lol 'integerial'

01:52

midnightmagic: the "amount of work" argument utterly fails to impress

01:53

also, it's probably not going to be true in a year or two as 14 nm asics fan out and become barely economic

01:54

that is the inverse of what will happen as more-efficient mining equipment arrives.

01:54

also, your argument would also be true if nMajorityWindow=10000 or 100000

01:55

decimation is ready to bet against diff increases?

01:56

I think it's likely to level out in the coming year or two, maybe longer

01:56

midnightmagic is ready to work more student exercises?

01:56

unless someone can tell me exactly how they are going to 'get efficient'

01:56

efficiency is not a prerequisite for fab runs.

01:57

no, but it is for profitability in the face of non-zero electric rates

01:57

since when has midnightmagic's employer given a shit about profitability?

01:58

ben_vulpes: #trollfail. That sort of thing doesn't work on me, especially when it comes from someone like you.

01:58

lol and yet you bit

01:59

ben_vulpes: You would call a bite any response. That is the fundamental nature of #trollfail.

02:00

y'ever hear the line: "don't feed the trolls"?

02:00

Regardless, a 1000-block window is not unreasonable if one accepts that mining hashpower is the vote that counts.

02:00

I don't accept it.

02:00

nor does this argument hold for 1000, because the same argument can be made for 50000

02:01

i don't accept it either.

02:01

midnightmagic: you make this mistake of letting the plants control the conversation. "what's the right magic number of blocks to signal fork acceptance?" answer: there isn't. there is only the long-term behavior of the network.

02:02

Correct. I am saying your complaint about it being unreasonable is illogical by any measure of the mining work done: there *is* no other meaningful window, or measurement, of the bitcoin network without shifting to PoS or DPoS. But if you want to do that, fork bitshares.

02:02

this moronic 'acceptance-in-blockchain' algo doesn't work, because hashpower can revert and rewrite an arbitrarily-lengthed blockchain.

02:03

ben_vulpes: On that at least, we agree. I agree with that: the current hashrate is as illegitimate as a vote of private keys would be in determining a softfork. What else is there?

02:03

's just no window.

02:03

there's* just no window.

02:03

just the network. that, only that, no more, no less.

02:04

Thus, backing up further, there is the legitimacy of BIP66 at all. If it is not legitimate, we have a consensus code failure every time openssl decides they want to change behaviour.

02:04

midnightmagic: art thou familiar with the 1.0.1g issue?

02:04

you are subjugating human judgement to unthinking machinery - this can never be reasonable

02:05

openssl changed behavior. bitcoin did not.

02:06

midnightmagic: who is holding a gun to your head, requiring you to update openssl?

02:06

I'm familiar with the DER-encoding change they made, and I'm aware of, if not familiar with, every major bug in openssl since 2001 or so. Could I draw a line between releases that had bugs and releases that fixed them? No. Not even close.

02:06

why isn't anyone seriously attempting to extract the open-ssl code paths used by bitcoin?

02:06

bitcoind's built with openssl versions after 1.0.1g don't sync.

02:07

this, i gather, is news to you.

02:07

bitcoinds*

02:07

decimation: Nobody, of course. Then we go back to static builds and what happens when an actual bug hits and the fork is so old that the fix doesn't backport? How divergent are we willing to accept?

02:07

lol. No, it's not news to me. Yes, I already knew that.

02:08

midnightmagic: the cure to that problem is not forcing changes of an uncertain nature, but to gain certainty in the codebase

02:09

why wouldn't we want a static bitcoind that is correct for all time?

02:09

midnightmagic: you were probably just on the cusp of killing hitler too.

02:11

<decimation> why wouldn't we want a static bitcoind that is correct for all time? << we do. midnightmagic does not.

02:11

well, then we have the forking risk I mentioned above: what happens when the openssl people make a fix or the internet finds a bug in the component that we depend on? If we sit on 0.9.8 or whatever the version was before those idiots got their hands on it and started adding malicious exploits, what happens?

02:11

understand the code, make sure it doesn't happen

02:11

pretending like others are there to solve your problems seems like a poor approach

02:11

ben_vulpes: You can keep guessing what I mean without actually asking me, but you're no less wrong.

02:12

decimation: no but you see we need to slurp the spitoon because if we don't something terrifying that we can't reason about won't happen!

02:13

midnightmagic: no less wrong than what now?

02:13

I'm not pretending that; I'm explicitly saying, divergence implies there is no reason to even *use* openssl at that point. strip out the components, use them, skip openssl entirely, and, I guess, trust in your ability to monitor the progenitor of your codebase for bugs that *explicitly affect your consensus-critical code*.

02:13

agreed, except "consenus-critical" means "compatible with what satoshi wrote" in my book

02:14

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 159666 @ 0.00052679 = 84.1105 BTC [+] {5}

02:14

or, do what sipa did and write a secp256k1 lib because the openssl people don't give a shit they're wrecking dependencies.

02:14

because, like I said, I think some people in there appear to be adding exploitable code with absurd frequency.

02:14

again, nobody is forcing anybody use a version of openssl they don't want to use.

02:16

ehh. satoshi's code, bugs and all. we could also stick with bdb and accept the quirks like the old accidental fork post-leveldb.

02:16

.. which appears to have been a gavin/hearn originated bug.

02:16

it's all well and good to say "strip out the components", i just don't buy that that's possible.

02:16

his code sucks, I don't deny, but it's the closest thing to a spec that we have

02:17

start there and iterate the code toward perfection

02:17

ideally, writing a damn spec first

02:18

it's all a question of how much you trust your ability to make code that converges on consensus. are you so awesome you can either sit on an old openssl, or write your own replacements? are you so godlike you can write testcases for every corner-case, bugs and all? I know I'm not. Maybe you guys are. I dunno.

02:19

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69387 @ 0.00053112 = 36.8528 BTC [+] {2}

02:19

Say, why did you guys stop openly calling out Gavin and Hearn anyway?

02:19

gavin is mentioned on here from time to time

02:19

Once everyone else started, you stopped. How come?

↖ ↖

02:20

!s usgavin

02:20

43 results for 'usgavin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=usgavin

02:20

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126663 @ 0.00053379 = 67.6114 BTC [+] {5}

02:20

Yeah, I mean aside from the grumbling in here which nobody but people *in here* seems to read.

02:20

For a while you were writing reddit posts and qntra articles and all sorts of stuff. Half the time you got Gavin himself "derping" as you put it, in your comments.

02:21

well, it wasn't me doing any of this stuff

02:21

Or coming in here and randomly arguing with you.

02:21

he did a few times, rather unimpressively

02:22

<midnightmagic> Yeah, I mean aside from the grumbling in here which nobody but people *in here* seems to read. << how could you possible know

02:22

possibly*

02:23

<midnightmagic> Once everyone else started, you stopped. How come? << hipsters always move on, boss

02:24

Unless you are implying people outside the bitcoin world are voracious readers of the -ass logs, as far as I can tell in all the articles, reddit posts, twitter feeds, etc, I don't see more than a passing mention. But even if that weren't so, really I'm a little disappointed the wind all went out of your sails, as it were.

02:24

6/10 #spergytrollfail

02:25

I don't really read reddit or twitter, but I recall that gavin captiulated, more or less

02:25

And here they are, going on little half-drunken joke-rants about how maybe they should just remove everyone else's commit access and unilaterally take control again.

02:26

who where is?

02:26

midnightmagic: reddit? twitter? d'you want to roll medium and perhaps bitcointalk.org into that as well?

02:26

You guys *heads* were exploding in here, and then when "the rest" of the bitcoin-core devs took up the flag you all went quiet again. wtf?

02:26

for a grand coup of shit-as-what-don't-matter?

02:27

so we won, and you want to 3/10 troll on the topic?

02:27

I presumed your head would explode if I mentioned forbes (due to its primary bitcoin author being a douchebag), or mainstream media.

02:27

He didn't capitulate.

02:28

*derpboom*

02:28

gcovr outputs a nice html version of the gcov output

02:28

gonna let this run for a while, then I'll share the results

02:28

What? He's pushing his BIP and pullreq, and Hearn is busy doing pullreqs which he knows doesn't have a chance of making it.

02:29

if bitcoin core devs agree with what people here are writing, why don't they venture here to make their case?

02:29

.. why would they do that?

02:29

moreover, if the decisions made here trickle down to "bitcoin core", why should we pursue them further?

02:30

umm, why would we give a shit about what they are saying otherwise? I donno bro, you're the one accusing here.

02:30

Besides, you went quiet well before he "capitulated".

02:30

why bang on about points that are already settled?

02:31

I guess that answers my question.

02:31

fair enough.

02:31

all I can say, for myself, is that folks write stuff on this channel, I would read; comment - as would others

02:32

I grok.

02:32

with respect to bip 66 in particular, it's not a terrible idea, but it strikes me as backwards

02:33

midnightmagic: re #trollfail it's supposed to be lighthearted elbows-in-ribs

02:33

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36350 @ 0.00053547 = 19.4643 BTC [+] {2}

02:33

why not solidify the questionable openssl code first, before lightly restricting certain signature forms?

02:33

ben_vulpes: Dude man, with the shit you guys say in here, I have no idea when you're ribbing someone, or promising a spear in the gut. :(

02:34

you're not in line for a stake

02:34

yet

02:34

:P

02:34

lol

02:35

at least you show up, comment

02:35

myeah

02:35

conflict is productive!

02:35

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @ 0.00053567 = 34.3097 BTC [+] {2}

02:36

anyways, chickens run around with their heads cut off for minutes. what of it? they still lost to the butcher.

02:37

<midnightmagic> ben_vulpes: Dude man, with the shit you guys say in here, I have no idea when you're ribbing someone, or promising a spear in the gut. :( << the ambiguity has to be completely intolerable

02:37

Maybe my appraisal is just wrong. Could be. Seems to me they're just taking a breather to set up the schism.

02:38

'they' being gavin et al?

02:38

Yeah, Gavin/Hearn.

02:38

The Satoshi-Halo-Wearers.

02:38

yes. ultimately this is war, and we have a strategy

02:38

oh did i come back for drama?

02:39

nah we seem to have defused the antagonism for now

02:39

thestringpuller: not at all, I mainly wanted to know why you all were being so quiet lately. :-P

02:41

quiet!?

02:41

dumpblock, eatblock, exposure of the ancient blockchain is quiet now?

02:42

i thought you said you were reading logs!?

02:42

midnightmagic: yeah actually we are mostly focusing on building a working, sane bitcoind

02:42

midnightmagic: cause I fucked up my shoulder being on the computer all day at work so I read comic books instead after work.

02:42

Yes, I saw all that. I mean *outwardly* quiet.

02:43

I think there's a general ambivalence about what bitcoin-devs want or do

02:43

midnightmagic: there really isn't news. just gavin/hearn having a temper tantrum like a little kid because they want more subsidies for poor people.

02:45

midnightmagic: also mircea_popescu 's series on the subject (http://trilema.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/) outlines and details the idiocy of every redditard comment that was, is, and will be on the subject

02:46

at any rate, I'm going to sleep, I'm sure others will comment tomorrow on this discussion.

02:48

midnightmagic: that's some wack ass disingenuous shit. you jumped in on the n block consensus line.

02:54

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10788 @ 0.00053569 = 5.779 BTC [+]

02:54

Just trying to be polite.

02:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115612 @ 0.00053634 = 62.0073 BTC [+] {3}

03:02

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186287 << co2. still the best solution in any perspective.

03:02

Logged on 04-07-2015 01:14:46; asciilifeform: (virgin tears? vodka ?)

03:04

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: mod6: http://bot.deedbot.org/stator-gcov/ << here's what my gcov run looks like so far. 135k

03:04

Head ... ( http://bit.ly/1NFAlEp )

03:05

nice way to read the source

03:05

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186321 << gotta ask whoever runs that site.

03:05

Logged on 04-07-2015 02:07:07; DanyAlos: I was looking for #bitcoin-assets on this search engine (http://irc.netsplit.de/channels), and realized that it is not listed. Is there any particular reason for not being there?

03:05

currently the cannonical b-a log service is http://log.bitcoin-assets.com

03:05

#bitcoin-assets log ... ( http://bit.ly/1NFAqb1 )

03:06

(an important point about co2 extinguishers is that they also cool when deployed. this effect is significant. heavier gases - not so much)

03:07

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186358 << also touched upon in here a few times. definitely the right way to do this.

03:07

Logged on 04-07-2015 02:46:46; asciilifeform: what i think would be considerably more useful is a provision for 'programmable checkpoints'

03:09

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186389 << for a long time in 2012/2013 there were "gencoin only" miners, at the peak doing like 15% ish of total hashing

03:09

Logged on 04-07-2015 03:04:15; asciilifeform: but it would stand to reason that miners will eventually exert more tx fee pressure

03:09

no txn included.

03:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60112 @ 0.00053707 = 32.2844 BTC [+] {2}

03:13

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21038 @ 0.00053837 = 11.3262 BTC [+]

03:15

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186697 << i dun think it does anything useful ; on the other hand it doesn't do anything whatsoever that wasn't either already done, or as good as already done. but whatever, let the flies buzzing in front of the truck get their fly trophies for opening the road to trucks.

03:15

Logged on 04-07-2015 04:47:46; decimation: I would say that on its face, bip66 isn't such a terrible idea

03:15

nevertheless, being critted for > 9k ironies over something like this is beyond comedic.

03:16

fitting for the empire of stupid, but still.

03:17

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186699 << seems it handled it gracefully.

03:17

Logged on 04-07-2015 04:47:58; trinque: http://dpaste.com/2KR17VF.txt << btcd log of 2015/07/03 fork

03:18

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186723 << it has historically proven to have been a massive mistake, perhaps the largest mistake on record, that people in the early f/oss made to argue on supposed technical merits and play-pretend the "impartial scientists".

03:18

Logged on 04-07-2015 04:51:34; asciilifeform: (for as long as it carries under 'technical', the weasels can whine, wheedle, emit 'reasonable reasonings', even persuade the persuadable)

03:18

i believe the lesson was learned.

03:20

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186772 << and watch the PR implementation crash and burn over division by negative zero and things.

03:20

Logged on 04-07-2015 05:13:46; decimation: at any rate this whole rejection machine can be permanantly jammed by setting nversion to MAX_INT

03:21

but at any rate : setting the "nversion" to maxint has at least the important symbolic significance of saying "this is the last version".

03:21

which may be a valuable thing.

03:22

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186780 << this is true, but broadly uninteresting.

03:22

Logged on 04-07-2015 05:26:45; decimation: I would also note that the bitcoind github commits and comments lie about the IsSuperMajority machine. They say that the mandatory rejection won't take effect until 95% of the blocks are incremented - but in fact it's only 950

03:23

i mean, other than painting the picture of the vermin in unflattering tones, which it does. in the field it can do precisely jack.

03:24

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186807 << more efficient mining equipment is not really happening past this point.

03:24

Logged on 04-07-2015 05:54:09; midnightmagic: that is the inverse of what will happen as more-efficient mining equipment arrives.

03:24

certainly nothing like we've seen to date.

03:26

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186836 << this is actually quite true.

03:26

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:06:14; midnightmagic: I'm familiar with the DER-encoding change they made, and I'm aware of, if not familiar with, every major bug in openssl since 2001 or so. Could I draw a line between releases that had bugs and releases that fixed them? No. Not even close.

03:27

pure spaghetti mess, wherein no soul can tell where the pasta ends and the cook's hairs begin

03:27

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186837 << for the same reason no one's attempting any other flavour of serious works anywhere in the decaying west, on any topic, for any reason. too busy posturing in front of things.

03:27

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:06:56; decimation: why isn't anyone seriously attempting to extract the open-ssl code paths used by bitcoin?

03:28

an exquisitely african thing this, as late as 2000 one could notice that all the egyptians seem willing to do is stand in front of the pyramids with their chests pushed out, or else gesturing importantly. meanwhile... the people who built those things don't look anything like the arab mongrels currently populating the place, if extant statues are to be believed.

03:28

similarly is the case of "americans".

03:29

whose great-grand parents noticed, while taking the upper-middle class mandatory "tour of europe", that the italians similarly etc etc.

03:31

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186847 << while this problem exists, i think the case that it is strictly preferable to attempt building a functional system than to bemoan one's fate of having been born to parents this poor, stupid and useless needs not be further pressed.

03:31

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:11:21; midnightmagic: well, then we have the forking risk I mentioned above: what happens when the openssl people make a fix or the internet finds a bug in the component that we depend on? If we sit on 0.9.8 or whatever the version was before those idiots got their hands on it and started adding malicious exploits, what happens?

03:32

Almost like a sort of mass-ennui/retirement mentality. Tired of working for something they don't believe in anymore.

03:32

it is in point of fact better to have a static build that specifically ennumerates blocks prior to height X and then proceeds from there, than to have the present situation.

03:33

and that's 40 gb's worth of magic number.

03:33

I meant to suggest that the amount of effort of doing it oneself compared with the projected risk of it happening while someone else is working on it.. which option is less expensive/reliable?

03:33

And sipa, it seems, agrees with you, hence the existence of libsecpblah

03:33

you familiar with my observation re alf's "folk with brains are useless - they want to use the brains" that in terms of "optimal impact", you're always better off waiting ?

03:34

No, but I do know for a fact that procrastination has saved my life at least six or seven times. :)

03:34

this is not actually a rational reason to wait.

03:34

sure, so it has. mine too.

03:38

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186854 << it's a complex mess. satoshi generally wrote stuff that didn't actually work for the intended purpose. it is very far from inconceivable we shall in a year discover a fundamental bug in any of a dozen dozens different essential components.

03:38

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:13:58; decimation: agreed, except "consenus-critical" means "compatible with what satoshi wrote" in my book

03:39

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186857 << not just there. which is why the entire signed patches business.

03:39

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:14:44; midnightmagic: because, like I said, I think some people in there appear to be adding exploitable code with absurd frequency.

03:40

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186865 << time will definitely tell.

03:40

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:18:37; midnightmagic: it's all a question of how much you trust your ability to make code that converges on consensus. are you so awesome you can either sit on an old openssl, or write your own replacements? are you so godlike you can write testcases for every corner-case, bugs and all? I know I'm not. Maybe you guys are. I dunno.

03:41

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186869 << this is where policy is set, not followed.

03:41

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:19:59; midnightmagic: Once everyone else started, you stopped. How come?

03:42

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186881 lmao "hey guise, everyone is now playing to your tune, what do you mean everyone's playing to your tune ?!?!?! so sad to see wind out of your sails as everyone's playing to your tune!!!"

03:42

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:24:27; midnightmagic: Unless you are implying people outside the bitcoin world are voracious readers of the -ass logs, as far as I can tell in all the articles, reddit posts, twitter feeds, etc, I don't see more than a passing mention. But even if that weren't so, really I'm a little disappointed the wind all went out of your sails, as it were.

03:42

what are you, on vitamins ?

03:44

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186909 << have you looked into that thing, god help you ?

03:44

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:33:28; decimation: why not solidify the questionable openssl code first, before lightly restricting certain signature forms?

03:45

it's a complete re-write. ask anyone.

03:46

:-P No, just wondering why you think anyone else is more capable than you are at ensuring a value-destroying fork doesn't happen.

03:46

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186924 << hearn was never included in that.

03:46

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:38:25; midnightmagic: The Satoshi-Halo-Wearers.

03:47

He is while he's riding around on Gavin's back. The Halo's right there above him.

03:47

i think what ? how is this even a problem ?

03:47

in this sense the halo's about as stretched as gavin's mother.

03:47

You "set the policy" and then stopped.

03:47

stopped what ?

03:48

Externally combating a blocksize increase with articles, comments, and discussion external to -ass.

03:49

why ? point's well made, everyone's happy to be part of bitcoin by standing on borrowed intelligence. let them.

03:49

next time they'll need some they... ahem... won't read b-a logs etc once more.

03:50

Because they haven't stopped yet. Hearn's submitting pullreqs he's going to use as propaganda to push people to -XT, and Gavin's going through the bip/pullreq motions when he knows he's going to be voted down. Again.

03:50

so ?

03:50

and lawsky's going around trying to scam people like a resurected antonopopo derpopopop.

03:50

"Miners, merchants, and exchanges," all agree with him. Supposedly.

03:51

any idea how long the list is ? even nefario is making the occasional reappearance.

03:51

yes yes.

03:51

every bum drunk has a story of greatness. go, listen. care.

03:51

What? Nefario is back?! His huge black eyes all healed up?!

03:51

eh, they nibble discreetely at teh periphery.

03:51

Lawsky.. name sounds familiar.

03:52

oh, the litlicence guy.

03:52

heck, kenna and the armandi fellow are prolly due for a novel attempt too

03:53

the legions of hell are truely an infinite headcount. why do you care so much about some particular schmucks in the chorus ? why not that tv scammer dude while you're at it, what was his name

03:53

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00052491 = 14.9599 BTC [-] {2}

03:53

keiser.

03:54

Dude wears the Halo. The other scammers don't matter so much. And if I really cared, I'd be doing something other than flicking out belly button lint in the shower. I'm just curious to know why *you guys* stopped.

03:54

to you.

03:54

he only wears the halo ~to you~. because you're a particular sort of inner build, and because you ate a particular diet.

03:55

your experiences and inner life are not nearly as universal as you imagine before you examine it.

03:55

No, not to me. He wears the halo that makes large audiences cheer for him instead of throwing spitballs, when he says he should revoke everyone's commit access and be a dictator.

03:55

to most everyone else, gavin's just another washed up website designer with a great story from five years ago.

03:56

sort-of like how rassah bought a car or some guy bought a pizza.

03:56

"dude i could have been so rich and important".

03:56

Nobody wears a halo to me. Well. Maybe Grigori Perelman..

03:56

yeah, sure. no shortage.

03:56

"and then we came THIS CLOSE to selling out to amazon for 5 trtillion"

03:56

go hang out in sf, see how often this comes up.

03:57

anyways. my 2c.

03:59

(but Perelman's a safe bet because he's a recluse and there's no possibility of that image ever being shattered)

03:59

he's still alive. never trust the living. for all you know he ends up like donald trump, doing reality shows in his 70s

04:04

blech

~ 21 minutes ~

04:26

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59300 @ 0.00051343 = 30.4464 BTC [-] {2}

04:38

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30341 @ 0.0005312 = 16.1171 BTC [+]

04:39

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25159 @ 0.00053427 = 13.4417 BTC [+]

04:50

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16351 @ 0.00052446 = 8.5754 BTC [-]

~ 16 minutes ~

05:06

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00053618 = 24.3426 BTC [+]

~ 47 minutes ~

05:54

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55800 @ 0.0005281 = 29.468 BTC [-]

06:05

so... did the DER chain lose the race?

06:07

I just started a stator patched to not skip VerifySignature, wonder if it'll work this time

06:17

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51900 @ 0.00053626 = 27.8319 BTC [+] {2}

06:17

http://oglaf.com/acrophobia/ << this one rocks

06:17

Acrophobia ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0g322 )

06:18

next one was good too http://oglaf.com/rangerron/

06:18

Ranger Ron's Wilderness survival guide ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0gc5I )

06:21

Jautenim

dafuq https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2015-07-04-spv-mining

06:21

Some Miners Generating Invalid Blocks ... ( http://bit.ly/1RaUyaC )

~ 15 minutes ~

06:37

see logs mebbe ?

06:38

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186613 < i dont see any difference?

06:38

Logged on 04-07-2015 04:30:43; mircea_popescu: Uh oh all these block explorers just flipped over to the invalid chain:

06:45

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55900 @ 0.00053217 = 29.7483 BTC [-]

06:56

*

kakobrekla caught up

06:56

so we are stuck on v3 now.

07:01

I'm at 254300 this morning, yay

07:02

so http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-07-2015#1186636 almost there mod6

07:02

Logged on 04-07-2015 04:33:37; mod6: shinohai: is your v0.5.3.1-RELEASE node up to dayte?

07:02

http://xenbits.xen.org/xsa/advisory-135.html << at least they sign.

07:02

XSA-135 - Xen Security Advisories ... ( http://bit.ly/1KAf28N )

07:04

"We are using 10.2 but got this message anyway: "Your node software is out of date and may accept an invalid blockchain fork. Do not trust confirmation."" "There was a mistake made and an alert that showed up on v0.10.2 was sent out accidentally; should be now fixed."

07:05

oh a mistake ? aww.

07:05

petertodd's answer ^

07:05

lukejr: "Sorry, accident, ignore."

07:06

petertodd: "Honestly I was half-expecting this to happen, and was actually busy writing up a warning for SPV wallets users when this issue came up."

07:06

http://redd.it/3c305f <<< whelp can't trust my 0.5.3 node /s

07:06

If you are using any wallet other than Bitcoin Core 0.10.x or 0.9.5 (or something backed by one of those versions), then you should not trust incoming transactions until they have ~30 confirmations. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0jGVG )

07:06

so if nothing else, cpu mining code needs to be updated in the ref implementation now or what

07:06

honestly i fully expect fail to "happen"

07:07

i thought reddit went private.

07:07

cpu mining code probably needs more than a couple fixes

07:07

or does it need to work only on alpha centauri?

07:07

or should i say only not-earth

07:08

check out all the miners that were mining off thin air, incidentally. because the bandwidth doubled so much.

07:10

fees not large enough to offset the finite speed of light

07:10

It appears f2p pool "almost" mined them out xD

07:17

quantum computing will solve this.

07:24

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36150 @ 0.00052768 = 19.0756 BTC [-] {2}

07:36

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37849 @ 0.00052533 = 19.8832 BTC [-] {2}

07:48

in other news, stator (with openssl1.0.1g) patched to not skip VerifySignature, has not barfed up to block 146k (previous attempt barfed earlier than that)

08:00

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143250 @ 0.00051227 = 73.3827 BTC [-] {4}

08:09

https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=140078 relevant to ^

08:09

New Bitcoin vulnerability: A transaction that takes at least 3 minutes to verify ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD6BHo )

08:11

wow GG America, well and truly lost the plot now http://myfox8.com/2015/07/03/florida-teacher-who-had-sex-with-three-teens-sentenced-to-22-years-in-prison/

08:11

Florida teacher who had sex with three teens sentenced to 22 years in prison | myfox8.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD6N9w )

08:12

"Two other male students, both also 17 years old, came forward as victims after Fichter was arrested." << lol assholes

08:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00050978 = 19.0658 BTC [-]

08:14

http://myfox8.com/2015/04/10/teacher-accused-of-threesome-with-student-avoids-jail-time-posts-gleeful-pic-to-instagram/

08:14

Teacher, accused of threesome with student, avoids jail time; posts gleeful pic to Instagram | myfox8.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD738B )

08:15

22 years, srsly ?

08:19

tbh at 17 i think i would've been willing to do 22 years to fuck my english teacher

08:20

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8034 @ 0.00050978 = 4.0956 BTC [-]

08:20

I always wanted to fuck my math teacher. She was smokin'

08:22

now and then i've thought of the few teacher's aids that would come for a school term as part of their studies.. they were so young and pretty but would be old bags now

08:33

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58519 @ 0.00050549 = 29.5808 BTC [-]

~ 24 minutes ~

08:57

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.0005057 = 7.3327 BTC [+]

~ 18 minutes ~

09:16

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66800 @ 0.00050579 = 33.7868 BTC [+] {2}

~ 48 minutes ~

10:04

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12091 @ 0.00051471 = 6.2234 BTC [+] {2}

10:05

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5909 @ 0.00052578 = 3.1068 BTC [+] {2}

10:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25303 @ 0.00050549 = 12.7904 BTC [-]

10:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11639 @ 0.00050549 = 5.8834 BTC [-] {2}

10:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32411 @ 0.000505 = 16.3676 BTC [-]

10:17

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71600 @ 0.000505 = 36.158 BTC [-]

10:23

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.000505 = 5.555 BTC [-]

10:32

http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2015/07/04#l1435978998.0

10:32

BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1IXhgsV )

10:38

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90650 @ 0.00050402 = 45.6894 BTC [-] {4}

10:45

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136900 @ 0.00052845 = 72.3448 BTC [+] {3}

~ 22 minutes ~

11:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143014 @ 0.00050724 = 72.5424 BTC [-] {3}

11:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2732 @ 0.00053217 = 1.4539 BTC [+]

11:17

363408

11:17

my sync is almost at axe-time...

11:19

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00053628 = 10.8597 BTC [+]

11:19

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186971 << aha

11:19

Logged on 04-07-2015 07:21:18; mircea_popescu: but at any rate : setting the "nversion" to maxint has at least the important symbolic significance of saying "this is the last version".

11:19

and from general principle, there is no reason ~not~ to make life maximally difficult for the enemy if this costs us nothing

11:27

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187074 << vMAXINT !

11:27

Logged on 04-07-2015 10:56:06; kakobrekla: so we are stuck on v3 now.

11:27

the buggers like to monkey with versioning? fine - let's nail their ears to their heads.

11:29

363673... almost there

11:32

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186991 << nah, more practically, a few dozen MB (sha512 sums)

11:32

Logged on 04-07-2015 07:33:02; mircea_popescu: and that's 40 gb's worth of magic number.

11:34

... and now i'm synced with mircea_popescu.

11:38

congrats, I am still about 167k or so

11:39

*267k

~ 16 minutes ~

11:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00053628 = 10.2698 BTC [+]

12:01

no-verifysig-skipping stator reached 169k, so I'm gonnna call this a success for now.

12:01

somebody last night had problem building stator:

12:02

i did learn that many linux distros lack 'realpath'

12:02

which is used in the script

12:02

maybe we should add a .conf option that lets whoever really wants it to skip VerifySig between checkpoints

12:02

as temporary workaround, replace the realpath thing (whole right side of equal sign) with the absolute path of 'ourlibs'

12:02

yeah that's what I did

12:02

aha neat.

12:03

asciilifeform: what do you think about making no-verifysig-skip the default for next release?

12:04

can't think of any reason not to

12:06

as it is 0.5.3.1/0.5.4 versions will accept blocks of version 1 and 2, allowing shitgnomes to induce forks. what's gonna happen with this?

12:07

(can be combined with very-slow-to-verify block for bonus points)

12:08

sig op parallelism would help in that regard

12:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00053639 = 4.8275 BTC [+]

12:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1980 @ 0.00053639 = 1.0621 BTC [+]

12:11

http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-program-discussion/1169541-2-police-detectives-house-cyber-crime-yesterday-post20514733.html >> They said tax information and records were continually being pulled. They kept asking me questions about bitcoin, blah blah blah.

12:11

2 police detectives showed up to my house for cyber crime yesterday. - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum ... ( http://bit.ly/1UlYt3p )

12:13

my stator is @ 281k

12:17

'nd that they sell over 30k student emails for $20, which I had bought;' << l337 sp4mz0r ?

12:17

so stator builds and syncs on openbsd 5.6 i386

12:17

OpenBSD 5.6 GENERIC#274 i386; -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 5.0M Jul 4 02:34 bitcoind; bitcoind: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1, for OpenBSD, statically linked, stripped

12:17

phf: you may be the first to achieve openbsd build! consider posting recipe

12:17

i had to make some minor changes http://paste.lisp.org/display/151074

12:17

... ( http://bit.ly/1Um06hx )

12:18

neat!

12:18

send it to the ml ?

12:18

asciilifeform: it pretty much builds out of the box. the only tricky part is the " -Wl,--whole-archive -lpthread -Wl,--no-whole-archive" business

12:19

apparently gcc doesn't always include all the necessary pthread bits (not just openbsd but other unixes), which results in segfault on launch

12:19

good work phf

12:19

30k student email list? I scraped like 5mil for leet sv startup last year.

12:19

asciilifeform: i have a small backlog of things i want to send to the list, i'll wrap it up sometime over the weekend

12:21

;;later tell mircea_popescu i built stator on dulap just now. unchanged from public recipe other than the 'realpath' thing (mentioned earlier.) same process ought to work on your other centos boxes. it will run as a public node as soon as i shove a blockchain in there.

12:21

The operation succeeded.

12:23

has anybody as of this moment received a block past 363734 from mircea_popescu's node ?

12:24

heh "I shook hands with the man I did most of the talking with and they took off... I was a little shooken up but realized I made a big mistake! I forgot to shake the black police detective's hand... shit!!! "

12:26

*

williamdunne has a mailing list of 13,000 bitcoiners

12:41

;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...

↖ ↖ ↖

12:41

The operation succeeded.

12:41

the miners ~are~ zombies

12:44

<+asciilifeform> phf: you may be the first to achieve openbsd build! consider posting recipe << please do!

12:44

;;later tell mircea_popescu any of your nodes past 363734 at this time ?

12:44

The operation succeeded.

12:45

<+phf> apparently gcc doesn't always include all the necessary pthread bits (not just openbsd but other unixes), which results in segfault on launch << on my obsd 5.6 on x86-64 that's the same problem i kept running into; segfault at execution time.

12:45

<+asciilifeform> has anybody as of this moment received a block past 363734 from mircea_popescu's node ? << im a day a way or so yet

12:45

*away

12:46

height=281810

12:46

mod6: i've been synced for ~1hour and it looks like it's firmly stuck there

12:46

(not a connectivity problem - i'm getting mempoolisms just fine)

12:51

http://images1.backpage.com/imager/u/large/175386055/slide-three.jpg

12:51

... ( http://bit.ly/1LKyr6b )

12:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00053639 = 12.927 BTC [+]

12:52

asciilifeform, mine stops at 36 http://danielpbarron.com/invalid_chain.txt

12:52

... ( http://bit.ly/1LKywXD )

12:52

my 0.7.2 node is at height=363815

12:53

thx for posting dpb

12:53

the one stuck at 36 is not limited to one seed, but it is running 0.5.3.1ish on a pogo with archlinux

12:58

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1108304.0 >> F2Pool is building on a wrong side and there is fake confirmation since block 363731. (EDIT: the bogus chain of 363731 is already orphaned and not relevant to normal users)

12:58

Blockchain split of 4 July 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKzxPt )

13:03

*

asciilifeform out to meatspace for most of the remaining day

13:04

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00053732 = 2.2567 BTC [+]

13:05

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 203404 @ 0.0005391 = 109.6551 BTC [+] {4}

13:08

I am seeing a bunch of ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() in my stator run

13:11

trinque: what does it say after "AcceptToMemoryPool()"

13:13

http://www.followingthetrend.com/2015/06/a-random-ass-kicking-of-wall-street/

13:13

A Random Ass Kicking of Wall Street | Following the Trend ... ( http://bit.ly/1LKBFH4 )

13:14

PRNGs selecting 50 random stocks each month from S&P 500 vs S&P 500 index:

13:14

http://www.followingthetrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Figure-15-1-Benchmarking-Randomness.png

13:14

... ( http://bit.ly/1LKBNX2 )

13:14

punkman: http://dpaste.com/2M49VAC.txt

13:14

... ( http://bit.ly/1LKBSdf )

13:21

williamdunne: I tend to take stock market prices as inflation indicators these days

13:21

I'm sure they used to mean something else, but we're in bizarro land where the length of a meter changes day to day

13:22

I'm not going to disagree with you completely, but I do still believe that S&P500 beats inflation by a couple of percent

13:23

Which still leaves room over official rates

13:23

yeah, I'm being hyperbolic

↖ ↖

13:23

well, matters how you measure inflation too

13:24

*

trinque wanders in search of coffee

13:24

True, some things are deflationary too, dependent on how you measure 'em

13:26

fluffypony

is that a post-coital penis joke?

13:26

you have to measure inflation from the balls!

13:29

trinque: I think that's to be expected with orphanage amputations. I have those and also plenty of "ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : nonstandard transaction type"

13:29

ah ok

13:31

fluffypony: Yes, well spotted

13:31

trinque: I always measured from my asshole, am I doing something wrong?

13:33

williamdunne: no one can tell you where your dick begins and ends... this is AMERICA!

13:33

Wooo, now I get to brag about my 3 inch glory!

13:38

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00053612 = 10.6152 BTC [-] {2}

13:40

!up sergiohlb

13:42

Height=273952 :/

13:44

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51717 @ 0.00054114 = 27.9861 BTC [+] {2}

13:44

lol, that's actually true that dick continues deeper in the body

13:44

shinohai: is that with your v0.5.3.1-RELEASE node?

13:46

@ mod6 yes, other one still not built yet

13:48

ah ok thanks

13:52

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61337 @ 0.00054139 = 33.2072 BTC [+]

14:01

jurov: Quite a bit further IIRC

~ 18 minutes ~

14:19

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186869 << it's not unlike my approach to Christianity -- most everyone already believes in the nice sounding bits, so why should I bother talking about them? I stick to the parts of the message that are not popular

14:19

Logged on 04-07-2015 06:19:59; midnightmagic: Once everyone else started, you stopped. How come?

14:26

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.00054139 = 20.7623 BTC [+]

14:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36083 @ 0.00053589 = 19.3365 BTC [-]

14:42

@ danielpbarron I like table-flipping Jesus best.

14:56

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68550 @ 0.00054113 = 37.0945 BTC [+] {2}

15:00

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47200 @ 0.00054139 = 25.5536 BTC [+]

15:03

shinohai: same

15:03

with the whip iirc

15:15

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72200 @ 0.00054139 = 39.0884 BTC [+]

15:30

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00054147 = 16.4607 BTC [+] {2}

~ 31 minutes ~

16:01

asciilifeform the dispute was 730/736

16:07

mircea_popescu: is your node down?

16:07

getting connection refused

16:07

ima look into it.

16:16

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00054188 = 18.5323 BTC [+]

16:22

trinque i dun see anything

16:23

^ works here

16:24

I got connection refused starting at 07/04/15 20:02:12 UTC

16:24

came back at 07/04/15 20:09:46

16:24

*

trinque shrugs

16:24

ass-goblins in the intertubes

16:24

asciilifeform : "Reorg!

16:24

Cut 6 start 000000000000000006a3 end 000000000000000013fe

16:24

Add 7 start 000000000000000006a3 end 0000000000000000014e"

16:24

they should. eventually.

16:25

fork's only been actually resolved a few hours ago.

16:29

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3c404r/shout_out_to_the_american_core_devs_that_are/

16:29

Shout out to the American Core Devs that are spending their 4th ensuring the health of the blockchain : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1TcE1R7 )

16:30

pfff

16:30

speaking of which, I'm adding the coverage flag to the deps too, and will regen that gcovr html thereafter

16:31

I was surprised to find that bitcoin doesn't actually look that *big* compared to other C++ projects I've seen

16:31

just... messy

16:32

it'll be neat to see for example how much of boost or openssl is actually used

16:32

might be able to just rip those bits off from the dep, then cut off the dep

16:32

!s openssl monkeys

16:32

1 results for 'openssl monkeys' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=openssl+monkeys

16:33

you can't cut off boost

16:33

trinque and anyone other: mandatory reading

16:33

jurov: hyper-lol

16:33

punkman: whysat

16:33

too interconnected?

16:33

you'll just have to reimplement everything

16:33

but what's "everything"?

16:33

2% of boost?

16:34

it'd be boost's interconnectedness that might prevent it, maybe

16:34

anyhow this is what I wanna see with the gcov thing

16:35

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-02-2015#1019971

16:35

Logged on 15-02-2015 22:34:28; asciilifeform: 2) tearing out 'boost' while keeping the project in cpp will turn it into an unreadable morass of crud that makes the existing turd look like the finest sausage

16:36

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60200 @ 0.00054492 = 32.8042 BTC [+] {2}

16:36

trinque, asciilifeform, wimc : if client fails to progress past 363736, the likely culprit is the db locks limit. look in derp.log (assuming standard derp) for "REORGANIZE\nREORGANIZE: Disconnect 6 blocks; 000000000000000006a3..000000000000000013fe\nREORGANIZE: Connect 7 blocks; 000000000000000006a3..0000000000000000014e\n\n\n************************\nEXCEPTION: 11DbException\nDb::get: Cannot allocate memory\nbitcoin i

16:36

n ProcessMessage()\n\nProcessMessage(block, 947244 bytes) FAILED\n" which is the confirmation. then increase the number o' locks.

16:37

k, ty

16:37

alternatively, feed it the last few blocks through the mechanism discussed that alf created recently i guess.

16:38

<trinque> might be able to just rip those bits off from the dep, then cut off the dep <<< ahahaha you.

16:39

mircea_popescu: I'm sure I'm about to see a nightmare when I pull the deps into the gcov thinger

16:40

but bitcoin! it seems so simple!

16:40

*

trinque shakes his head

16:42

can gcov cope with templated function generated by macros?

16:45

286k+

16:47

jurov: according to this you lose a lot of detail, i.e only get statistics for the line of the macro call http://codingfreak.blogspot.com/2009/02/gcov-analyzing-code-produced-with-gcc.html

16:47

Gcov - analyzing code produced with GCC ~ Codingfreak ... ( http://bit.ly/1LPkDIz )

16:48

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1186129 << a tape recorder is the one thing I forgot to bring (I had specifically prepared one for the event but forgot to pack it) -- the mere act of having such a device around free-staters would probably trigger them into a rage

16:48

Logged on 03-07-2015 23:48:17; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-07-2015#1184704 << dude you gotta wear a recording devince next and have someone transcribe it.

16:48

danielpbarron: s-stop the surveillance!

16:50

you can record with cellphone, no?

16:50

or is removing battery mandatory at such meetings?

16:52

incidentally, am i the only one finding it a wee bit suspicious that the orphan chain ended up 6 blocks long, ie, exactly the size normally deemed "safe" ?

16:53

mircea_popescu: you think there was a big transaction that got double-spent ? or...

16:53

one could definitely have existed, on this basis.

16:53

jurov, by the time i can get my iphone out of pocket, unlocked, open the recording app, start recording.... the lunatic has already spouted off the gems worth recording

16:53

what i can't figure out is why the hashrate didn't seem to split with the ph0rk...

16:53

then again plenty of people do not even wait for one.

16:54

pete_dushenski does anyone do such fine statistics?

16:54

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1186531 << the clients do seem to run into similar problems eh.

16:54

Logged on 04-07-2015 04:15:35; ben_vulpes: simple rehash of the "let's probe network cohesion strength" fork

16:55

pete_dushenski 6 blocks wouldn't necessarily be visible. even three deep reorgs happen with some regularity naturally.

16:56

jurov: perhaps not.

16:57

mircea_popescu: ok, but assuming those 6 invalid orphan blocks are off on their own, how is it that some sites (eg. bc.i) are reporting that this foundation of sand is still being built on ?

16:58

are they ? i've not looked.

16:58

bc.i is

16:58

no it reports them as orphaned

16:59

https://blockchain.info/blocks just the numbering is messed up

16:59

Blocks mined on 04/07/2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXfKfp )

16:59

jurov: perhaps ima confoozed, but don't orphaned blocks have to be replaced with valid blocks in the main chain ?

16:59

yes.. that's why i say numbers are messed up

16:59

so the numbers are meaningless ?

17:00

must be...

17:00

here's what's the idea : after botching the soft fork, it seems illogical that the entire bip system should continue at all.

17:00

these are people who have been so far causing nothing but problems for bitcoin.

17:00

there can not be a single instance documented where they did anything useful to any degree or in any sense

17:00

an abundance of instances can be documented where they fucked things up

17:01

then they go on reddit to "explain" why what they fucked up isn't their fault, and "what really happened" , and collect cheap applause from the celenterates therein living.

17:01

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00054516 = 13.4655 BTC [+]

17:01

*

pete_dushenski searches memory for instances of useful 'devs'... blank.

17:01

this is EXACTLY how usg works throughout. first, cause black people to be poor and depenedent. then cause them to be violent. then go on press conferences about how "they're doing things about black violence"

17:02

;;later tell mod6 new build successful and now in sync ...

17:02

The operation succeeded.

17:02

right. splendid. how about go home and the problem goes away with you.

17:02

so in this sense, BIP 999 : No more fucking BIPs.

17:02

mircea_popescu: it's the broken window/car accident economy

17:02

great for gdp.

17:02

i do not see any gdp here.

17:03

shitty for civilisation.

17:03

for the unsubstantiated delusionsm of a few random geeks, working to make the world believe they're knowledgeable and important, bitcoin hiccups every so often.

17:07

!gettrust travispatron

17:07

travispatron is not registered in WoT.

17:07

for when he does...

17:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 170149 @ 0.00054549 = 92.8146 BTC [+] {4}

17:08

;;later tell travispatron you sucked before, you suck now, and you will always suck. enjoy the periphery, derp.

17:08

The operation succeeded.

17:09

for posterity, because menahem's comment was beleeted once and it'll obviously happen again :https://archive.is/mKOij

17:09

menahem

lulz

17:12

pete_dushenski: looks like b.info is hopelessly stuck on showing only orphaned blocks

17:13

http://btc.blockr.io/block/info/363736 vs. https://blockchain.info/block-height/363736

17:13

... ( http://bit.ly/1LPnpNX )

17:13

Bitcoin Blocks At Height 363736 ... ( http://bit.ly/1LPnpO1 )

17:13

(blockr is right)

17:13

such vc funding...

17:13

wait, who owns blockr again ?

17:16

<+mircea_popescu> here's what's the idea : after botching the soft fork, it seems illogical that the entire bip system should continue at all. << Very much agreed. If someone wants to change something they should write to The Foundation's btc-dev mailing list and submit a patch. And if they can't because they're not in the WoT, well they're not in the WoT. They can make a personal appeal here in person.

17:17

alternatively they could just shut down and stfu already.

17:17

haha. yeah, that too.

17:17

lel

17:17

pete_dushenski: coinbase

17:18

mats: aha thanks. just goes to show that there are shades of grey in the braindead morass of veecee moolah, not all are created equal.

17:22

also lulzy for all the people using blockchain.info to validate txn.

17:23

or b1ockchain.info or other similar derivatives

~ 16 minutes ~

17:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58249 @ 0.00054577 = 31.7906 BTC [+]

17:45

"wangchunLuke-Jr: I do not know how that v2 pool was relayed, log was lost in a screen session"

17:45

this gotta be a... cultural thing.

17:45

le pgp key server almost done cooking

17:46

mircea_popescu: should i make it publicly available for auditing?

17:46

mats of course.

17:46

or keep it in house; perhaps jurov or asciilifeform would be interested in doing it

17:46

alright

17:46

consider sign and submit to list.

17:48

!up ascii_modem

17:49

apparently in the world we live in, the best way to ensure nobody reads something is to publish it as code anyway

17:49

so where are the pikes with the headz??

17:50

there is no physical punishment for being extremely ridiculous.

17:50

oh and no reorgs in my log

17:50

there are some people that go around introducing themseves as "bitcoin devs" who just spectacularly failed the least controversial soft fork to date.

17:50

this isn't washing

17:51

but whatever, phantomcircuit is still the guy who ran "a security companmy" that oversaw 3 bitcoinica thefts, and still the guy who hacked a python one liner to send every customer an email with the full list of customer emails

17:51

yet he's still walking around as if he were somehow still a person.

17:51

the dead don't know they're dead ; the ridiculous don't know they're ridiculous. the world is well constructed for one's amusement.

17:52

the enemy accomplished his objective, which probably had something to do with discrediting chinese mines

17:52

to pin objectives on brownian motion...

17:52

"the enemy" is barely cogent enough to be enmitous at all.

17:53

not brownian - has very obvious aims (keeping turdalicious-bitcoind in circulation being one)

17:54

i suspect this obviousness is a fruit of your eye, not of the thing you're lookling on. like people perceive souls in cats' eyes.

17:54

just because you have one, and it's a very reflective surface, doesn't mean it has one too.

17:54

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00054735 = 13.848 BTC [+]

17:55

neway, of more interesting things : confirmed my seeder's stuck on 363736.

17:55

aha

17:55

was when i last saw

17:56

ascii_modem this is incidentally an exceptional opportunity to test our recent toolset.

17:56

hm?

17:56

what happens if you import the 7 block alt-chain into the stator ?

17:57

innit in there now? or am i confused

17:58

atm the situation is that block 363730 is forked. one chain, 6 blocks long, proceeds atop a v2 block. the current main chain proceeds from 363730 on v3 blocks.

17:58

the difference between v3 and v2 is , as best anyone can determine, actual fucking validation for the openssl nonsense. hardly avoidable.

17:59

!gettrust phf mod6

17:59

Trust relationship from user phf to user mod6: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=phf&to=mod6 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/mod6/

17:59

this, obviously, would also be where to bury who knows what. but if it's there, nobody's found it yet that i know

17:59

so evil wins?

17:59

how so ?

18:00

we involuntarily backport a gavinism?

18:00

how's it a gavinism to begin with ?

18:00

because not ours?

18:01

lemme lay out the issue here in detail, i think it's mebbe getting fudged.

18:01

so 1. it was observed that the idiots running openssl, who for historical reasons are actually wholesale pulled into bitcoin, decided to fuck up the way they do signatures, which is to say, make items signed come out in rnadom shapes. this is obviously very dangerous for bitcoin

18:02

aga i recall

18:02

2. a voluntary, user-enforced change to the protocol was proposed (iirc by petertodd) where only DER sigs are accepted anymore.

18:02

this is neither a bad idea nor in any sense avoidable. because, again, without it we'll fork daily.

18:02

it'd have been ideal to not import the satoshism in question into bitcoin, but before our time.

18:03

3. in order to avoid the situation that happened tonight, a supposed "voting" mechanism was deployed where people switched an irrelevant byte in the blocks they mined, to go from 2 to 3, to indicate they are ready and willing to follow the new rules.

18:03

this, again, has nothing to do with us. if tomorrow miners decide as a social game to never communicate any blocks they find that hash to odd, it's THEIR problem

18:03

where were the daily forks b/w january (?) and now ?

18:04

and we'll never see an odd hash block for as long as they keep at it.

18:04

lemme finish

18:05

4. the people who voted did so as all people voting ever do : blankly, mouth only. then, someone mined a v2 block on top of a v3 block (which to them look identical) and the supposed 95% majority that promised by that vote to distinguish failed to distinguish. well, half of them or so. the other half distinguished

18:05

this utterly proves that a) the BIP system provides no benefit and should be disused ; b) the peoiple involved with all this nonsense should be muted ; c) voting does not work. nothing here is novel.

18:06

none of this in any way invalidates anything about the new chain, nor is it a point of concern that i can distinguish

18:06

done.,

18:07

got plan?

18:07

ascii_modem where were the daily forks b/w january (?) and now ? << costs a little to make one, nobody cared enough. (also lots of manual intervention and general ducttaping at the miner and relayer level - bitcoin is quickly becoming an excellent makework tool, keeping idiots both employed and in a delusion of importance)

18:07

well, just let the chain reorg an' carry on, imo.

18:08

i still don't see how it affects us / anything of concern.

18:08

where is my reorg?

18:08

my node is dead in the water

18:08

the only problem is that the clients ain't reorging properly, which needs looking into/

18:09

which is why i said, perfect time to test our tools.

18:09

i saw no signs of blocks happening at all

18:09

specifically, what happens if you put the new chain into a node

18:10

well you're only looking at mine, and mine's not relaying.

18:10

ah

18:10

which it's how it's made to work, better fail than be stupid.

18:10

gonna plug in the one on dulap when i get home

18:10

now, since you're synced to my level, and you have a full validating node, i see no reason to not open the listen port. do you ?

18:11

open

18:11

the original point of this thing i run here was to give all comers the historical chain as is in my custody.

18:11

i do intend to replace it with a foundation one as soon as practicable.

18:11

but for now it can stay as it is, because i think more people were syncing to it.

18:12

im also going to have it unstuck, but i got a shitpile of stuff cooking atm.

18:12

behind on reports and etc.

18:12

from your earlier pastes, mirceacoind has slightly spiffier debug...? than ri

18:13

i dunno, mebbe

18:13

i dun think i ever used the original.

18:13

what's bitcoind debug toolset ?

18:13

just about nil

18:14

only the log

18:14

then perforce ?

18:14

?

18:14

ascii_modem: some lcov output for ya http://bot.deedbot.org/stator-lcov/

18:14

LCOV - coverage.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1KFihdx )

18:14

added the --coverage flag to all the deps

18:14

ascii_modem anything will be spiffier than nil neh ?

18:15

trinque: neato - will read as soon as i'm not on street

18:15

cool, just wanted to post the link

18:16

fellas, we gotta infer, divine, & reimplement mircea_popescu's mega-debugger

18:17

i run a public company wut do you want from me, blood ?

18:17

omaygerd

18:18

l0l

18:19

anyway, i am very much amused at the way discussion with kakobrekla turned out. 600 hours "oh miners will just so and so " "nobody cares what miners do" ; 1800 "oh miners just so and so'd!!1" "and it turns out nobody cared".

18:19

so what, is "95% consensus" going to gavincoin next ? for ... all of six blocks again ? cool.

18:20

!up ascii_modem

18:20

picture if we had pogos deployed

↖ ↖

18:21

wouldn't have changed anything.

18:21

d00d i can't spend shit this weekend.

18:21

"We need 20 confirms sorry"

18:21

how many other ways for fuckers to wedge us

18:21

oh oh.

18:21

myeah.

18:21

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142438 @ 0.00054539 = 77.6843 BTC [-] {2}

18:21

this is a major problem, and the fact we're looking into it one of the few things giving me solace and better rest at night

18:22

this incident makes it very tempting to just unzip, piss on satoshid, and go ada sanityfork (tm)

18:22

gotta make the fambly unit work alfie.

18:23

?

18:23

i know she's stupid and fat and you want a divorce, but...

18:23

gotta make the fambly unit work.

18:23

right now we got an anthill in the living room

18:24

and you don't even know about the used condoms behind the bed headboard

18:24

there are different schools of thought re how to furnish a room

18:24

I think we need to put a lot more comments on the code, kinda clunky to do through patches to ML though

18:24

but none include anthill

18:24

you married alf?

18:24

punkman you can resubmit it commented.

18:25

an' signed, an' people will prolly prefer referencing yours unless it's dumb

18:25

in which case they'll prolly change it rather than start from the original. unles it's VERY dumb.

18:25

which sort of reorg apparentyly happens, or used to happen, a whole lot.

18:27

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45900 @ 0.00054068 = 24.8172 BTC [-]

18:27

so far i'm not sure any of you apprehend just what a steaming turd the thing is

18:27

in other news, ATMs getting ddos'd even at 1am. rejects transaction, spits out card, and you gotta start over. perhaps intentional rate-limiting.

18:28

where?

18:28

he's in greece.

18:28

anyway, the main sufferance in my head atm is that reading the chinese stuff (in translation) clarifies in my head an objection that may well be a second major flaw to the protocol, after the "relay nodes gotta do it for the glory" : its altogether unclear a purely financial incentive is the correct solution for miners.

18:28

ah!

18:28

^^^^

18:28

specifically : atm there is an arbitrage open, where you can either make money by "brute forcing" it ie hashing,

18:29

or else by fucking up other people's miners. i ordered a listing of "all the ways you could exploit a miner with crafted comms for a hash advantage"

18:29

the process hasn't returned yet, the list is already hundreds of entries long

18:29

most only apply to specific implementationms etc, but! fuck me...

18:29

this is the exam thread all over again

18:29

it pays more as a pool operator to be into skulldugery than into running your pool

18:30

where 'exams optimize for examsmanship'

18:30

ipso facto "running pool" ===== "nefariousness in layers"

18:30

sure, people don't do it yet. mostly because lazy, 2nd mostly because stupid, 3rd mostly because it's not even txn time yet.

18:31

but when that begins all this may fucking collapse under the weight of... if money's the incentive to mine mining will not exactly allign with "securing the network"

18:31

(txn time = when most miner revenue comes from block txn)

18:31

the mire scant the crumbs, the bloodier the crumbfight

18:31

scoopbot_revived

Bitcoin's 4th of July : INDEPENDENCE FROM AMERICA DAY http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/04/bitcoins-4th-of-july-independence-from-america-day/

18:32

lol

18:32

*more

18:32

^my modest post-mortem, perhaps early...

18:32

ascii_modem more specifically put : currently everyone is mining with a "god given" known tx of 25 btc + whatever they pick off the ground.

18:32

tomorrow, they will not KNOW immediately through act of god where that 25 btc comes from

18:33

12.5...

18:34

atm 99.x% of income comes through this immediate, sent-from-heaven-above channel

18:34

if as much as 66% comes that way and the other 33% has to be found out about... o baby.

18:34

hard to convey what the changes in dynamic such a thing brings.

18:35

also touches on the mempool thread

18:35

really the % of income "just known" vs "information acquired" is the proper measure.

18:35

atm the split is .999 - .001 or somesuch. this will change monotoniucall;y the other way

18:35

whole thing is mostly duct tape by weight

18:37

"A blockchain that does not validate under 0.5.3 is an altcoin blockchain." << both forks were valid in 0.5.3, right?

18:37

so far there is no structure remotely enough to take up the weight if the duct tape is ripped out

18:37

punkman right. hence all the "We don't give a shit" verbiage here.

18:39

anyway, i don't envisage as much as an inkling of a solution. just more stuff to worry about.

18:39

one one hand, i don't give a shit, yes. on the other, a human turd pressed a button, my nodes are halted, and there is no guarantee that they don't have a bottomless magazine of these

18:39

but this situation is why im so cold on your ada idea. sure, you go put all the god damned effort into writing a fully correct, fully specified implementation oif an... broken idea.

18:39

i like you too much for something liek that.

18:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.00053931 = 31.0643 BTC [-] {3}

18:40

so invent correct idea ?

18:40

until we know exactly wtf to do about relayers, about miners now, there is no point. the prototype's still prototypin'.

18:40

dude, how about you actually get some data first omfg.

18:40

yea, i get it, may mean that this makes your fate be to muddle in the dirt, piling up data for your kid, who maybe might do it.

18:41

fuck you, your grandparents were farmers. it's how this fucking world works.

18:41

would really help to have a fucking reasonable platform for this

18:41

yes. it would really help.

18:41

that means not hairball

18:41

no, i know.

18:43

actually ~my~ grandparents were approx. what i am now, l0l

18:43

the male ones at least

18:44

but farming is tempting, yes

18:44

"Chrome extension "BitcoinWisdom Ads Remover" by MasterX will change your btce deposit address after page is loaded. Do not use this app or remove it if you installed."

18:44

surprised we aren't seeing more of these

18:44

run moar chromedowz!!

18:44

farming is tempting?

18:45

compared to c++

18:45

wait until you try to debug plants

18:45

or a cow's arse

18:46

bbl

18:49

asciilifeform just sayin, humanity was built by originally trudging the muck with no tools.

18:49

there is no reason to expect any better in this new field. it is, after all, a field.

18:49

and yes, most men died before seeing the thing they were working for. historically, to date.

18:49

there's no reason to expect etc etc.

18:50

<punkman> wait until you try to debug plants << he has a point there. tho in fairness iirc alf debugged mice at some point.

18:52

*

mircea_popescu is mildly impressed at alf's lineage in any case. my grandparents were teachers and whatnot, but great-grandparents deifnitely farmers.

18:52

I get very frustrated at things like "o hey we've sprayed 12 different solutions at it and the damn lemon tree still has fungus"

18:52

not really *that* far off

18:53

punkman i had problems with, "artichoke does so well here, it actually STAYED GREEN THROUGH WINTER, suppoirting an inch of snow on its upturned broad leaves. meanwhile, magnolia sapplings grow < 1inch per year and will never flower"

18:54

the town was fully of blooming magnolias and i never saw a single artichoke plant outside of my garden

18:56

for a short time I believed in the mythical farmer that actually knows what he's doing. But after watching the experts debug these things, my only conclusion is they sometimes get lucky and that's the best I could hope for.

18:57

maybe they got better corn science over in the US, dunno.

18:57

just like coders.

18:57

yeah, if you agree to make unedible crud you may have better control.

18:58

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187199 << whoops. My 0.5.3.1ish pogo node is the one that is fully synched after today's craziness; it's my 0.7.2 node that is currently stuck..

18:58

Logged on 04-07-2015 16:52:19; danielpbarron: my 0.7.2 node is at height=363815

18:58

danielpbarron are yuou up to date ? what's lastblock ?

18:58

height=363856

18:58

I tried heirloom tomatos for a bit. I now know why everyone's using the same boring/bland strain.

18:58

yeah that' right

18:59

consider pubnlishing ip if not done so already

18:59

i don't have port forwarded to that machine

18:59

punkman meanwhile hanbot used to grow cherry tomatoes on her windowsill.

18:59

like... half pount per six inch tall plant

19:02

aha my isp provided modem/router is working again. will have ip in a moment

19:02

(previously forwarded all ports to one DMZ machine)

19:03

hanbot

oh yeah, those windowtomatoes were great.

19:03

<+danielpbarron> height=363856 << your v0.5.3.1ish node has this height?

19:03

hanbot it still seems thermodynamically impossible.

19:03

a two ounce leaf can not carry a twelve ounce load!

19:04

mod6 the blockchain is not compromised.

19:04

hanbot

you don't understand the way the windowmato works.

19:04

just some nodes have trouble unsticking, which as i said above, great place to test our new block manip tools etc.

19:04

mod6, yes

19:04

yeah, read that.

19:05

mp, you're right, should test the new dump/eat tools with the orphan blocks

19:05

see what happens.

19:05

i still dunno why they do it. i've not yet managed to unstick a stuck one from last night

19:05

danielpbarron: great! thanks

19:05

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80000 @ 0.0005447 = 43.576 BTC [+] {2}

19:05

superficially it seemed reorg blocks like it did in 2013, but maybe deeper than that. have not yet gone too deep into

19:05

we need something that stores these forks for inspection and replaying. I think ben_vulpes had a thread about that

19:06

punkman well now we have it! alf wrote the shitblock!

19:06

this is exactly the sortt of situation the entire deterministic thing he was crowing about is meant for.

19:06

which, in terms of parachutes.. .you gotta admit... perfect timing

19:07

71.232.150.212 port 8139 is a fully synched 0.5.3.1~ node

19:07

almost as if someone was holding off hitting the muppets over the head with a 2x4 until b-a crowd had its ducks lined

19:07

yeah but after reorg it throws the things away right? you'd have to shitblock at just the right time

19:07

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187574 <<< never had a problem with them down under.. 4-5 day heat wave is the only thing that fucked my tomatoes 2 seasons ago

19:07

Logged on 04-07-2015 22:58:41; punkman: I tried heirloom tomatos for a bit. I now know why everyone's using the same boring/bland strain.

19:07

punkman which is why im keeping stuck nodes.

19:07

the one i originally advertised for instance.

19:07

cazalla: I fucked the up with too much sunlight many times.

19:07

cazalla did you spray water ?

19:08

mircea_popescu, nope, good water in the evening and morning but the 4-5 days of 40-44 degree heat toppled em

19:09

people in heatwave places have these fine nozzles

19:09

a gallon of water makes half hour's mist, protects the plant if there's any air draft at all

19:09

otherwise, stews it. which...

19:11

might've been the uv damage that killed em, i don't really know other than summer 2013 provide no tomatos

19:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00054735 = 9.7428 BTC [+]

19:14

thinking about making some tomato wine this coming summer but from what i've read, it isn't that nice

19:14

<mats> alright << i'd love a read

19:15

cazalla: might as well get some grapes

19:16

unfortunately i don't really have a place suitable for a few vines

19:18

cazalla, you can grow a tall vine and have it hang from a pergola type thing

19:18

phf: hey, i was able to apply your patch for OpenBSD onto stator, but I hit this problem after boost compiled: http://dpaste.com/0WRAK16.txt any thoughts?

19:18

... ( http://bit.ly/1G0zgki )

19:19

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187419 << this was *so* stupid.

19:19

Logged on 04-07-2015 22:03:31; mircea_popescu: 3. in order to avoid the situation that happened tonight, a supposed "voting" mechanism was deployed where people switched an irrelevant byte in the blocks they mined, to go from 2 to 3, to indicate they are ready and willing to follow the new rules.

19:19

punkman, no pergola but we have a clothesline i could commandeer but doubt the missus would like that heh

19:19

scoopbot_revived

MPEx (S.MPOE) June 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/mpex-smpoe-june-2015-statement/

19:20

cazalla: makes for a nice shade too, http://st.houzz.com/simgs/14316d7f0d69c5f6_4-2255/traditional-landscape.jpg

19:21

punkman, that's lovely, just wish i had the room :\

19:21

used to have one of these on 2nd floor roof, vine roots at ground floor

19:21

shade's good for the bunnies too, such synergy

19:22

punkman, killed em off a while ago, might take em up again once i own a larger block of land

19:27

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165384 @ 0.00053421 = 88.3498 BTC [-] {3}

19:28

https://twitter.com/_joac/status/617152001504378880

19:28

"Después de encontrar una vulnerabilidad grave en el sistema de voto electrónico a #MSA estan allanando mi casa, los de delitos informaticos."

19:28

(in argentina)

19:33

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57908 @ 0.00053236 = 30.8279 BTC [-]

19:34

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187606 << thank you! very cool.

19:34

Logged on 04-07-2015 23:07:30; mircea_popescu: punkman which is why im keeping stuck nodes.

19:35

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8306 @ 0.00053236 = 4.4218 BTC [-]

19:35

For any interested: using phf's patch with a few mods for amd64 I have successfully built stator on OpenBSD.

19:35

It is syncing

19:36

gernika: cool

19:36

so's this phr0k the nail in 20mb blocks' coffin?

19:36

gernika, maybe write up your process/mods

19:37

Will do. Need to sign up for the mailing list.

19:37

pete_dushenski: "i sell bitcoins and bitcoin-backed derivatives"

19:37

ben_vulpes myeah.

19:38

1mb's too big already.

19:38

didn't need more nails

19:38

how convenient!

19:39

ben_vulpes: is now known as ben hill

19:39

<punkman> "Después de encontrar una vulnerabilidad grave en el sistema de voto electrónico a #MSA estan allanando mi casa, los de delitos informaticos." << in case anyone else missed it, this country is mostly a parody.

19:39

clearly you don't fight enough zombies

19:39

gernika well done.

19:39

!rated gernika

19:39

You have not rated gernika.

19:39

!rate gernika 1 New blood.

19:39

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3cb6bf2132382215

19:39

thanks mircea_popescu

19:39

!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gernika.1:eb318647a108e0be29f9865dd2fdfb67a3b866e012eab068bab5f31c1d2db831

19:39

Successfully added a rating of 1 for gernika with note: New blood.

19:39

wait gernika's new blood?

19:39

is to me.

19:40

<punkman> gernika, maybe write up your process/mods << also a good idea. submit to mail list, now you can.

19:40

he voiced himself, could post at ml already

19:40

ah right. missed that.

19:42

@ ben_vulpes did you need anything important when you pinged me earlier? It was like 4 am here, so I missed it

19:44

ben_vulpes: from whence this quote ?

19:44

travis ?

19:45

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187150 << i think this is a bad idea.

19:45

Logged on 04-07-2015 16:02:26; punkman: maybe we should add a .conf option that lets whoever really wants it to skip VerifySig between checkpoints

19:46

alas, some cabin and some party with some people beckon. a demain !

19:46

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187155 << this isn't the right aproach. can you think of any reason TO include it ?

19:46

Logged on 04-07-2015 16:04:00; asciilifeform: can't think of any reason not to

19:46

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185459 << i don't think this addresses collusion.

19:46

Logged on 03-07-2015 18:17:00; ascii_field: and shamir for the original poker

19:47

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187156 << how exactly would they do this ? by mining a block ? at this diff ?

19:47

Logged on 04-07-2015 16:06:20; punkman: as it is 0.5.3.1/0.5.4 versions will accept blocks of version 1 and 2, allowing shitgnomes to induce forks. what's gonna happen with this?

19:47

shinohai: wanted to know about your 0.5.3.1's behavior during the phr0k

19:47

;;later tell pete_dushenski king of the hill: "i sell cars and car backed securities"

19:47

The operation succeeded.

19:47

Oh it is still syncing

19:47

mircea_popescu: well it costs 25btc, if they can doublespend more than that somewhere...

19:48

if that costs 25btc then any chip alf wants costs ~50 cents

19:48

cause that's "what chips cost"

19:49

yeah that was stupid, never mind

19:49

im not saying it's not possible, obviously.

19:49

but still, any derpy miner can do this

19:50

best i can discern, this is not only legitimate, but will be the ultimate end situaiton

19:50

one day, someone WILL mine a version 1 block that WILL stick.

19:50

the current power ranger derpitude is like america.

19:51

"for as long as gargle lasts"

19:51

eh, alf may actually get to the ada impl before a block v1 sticks again.

19:52

he might.

19:52

or he might not.

19:52

management's about doors.

19:53

howso?

19:53

"I shook hands with the man I did most of the talking with and they took off... I was a little shooken up but realized I made a big mistake! I forgot to shake the black police detective's hand... shit!!!"

19:53

heh. these people... adult infants i swear.

19:53

ben_vulpes not a very good q.

19:54

d'you mean that management is about "you may do XXX but not YYY" when you say "doors"?

19:55

no, i mean, sure, maybe x will happen. but then again maybe x won't.

19:55

like so :

19:56

http://trilema.com/2015/old-story/#selection-665.1-665.37

19:56

Old story on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEzPWy )

19:58

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185611 << i keep a git repo on disk, i think someone else has one of these running in public as well

19:58

Logged on 03-07-2015 19:21:32; mod6: I will work on a patch list and maybe a script later this month. It is a bit hard to follow.

19:59

https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin/commits/thermonuke

19:59

Commits · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HDVz4L )

19:59

https://github.com/extempore/real-bitcoin << i keep the patches in their own directory

19:59

extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HDVzlg )

19:59

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187175 << there is a world under the ground we know little about.

19:59

Logged on 04-07-2015 16:19:51; punkman: 30k student email list? I scraped like 5mil for leet sv startup last year.

20:00

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187182 << add lying schmucks to a degree not experienced since kindergarten on pirate island. the f2pool admin's explanation is "we got the bad block from antpool, who we don't know how they got because they told us they only follow us"

20:00

Logged on 04-07-2015 16:41:04; asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...

20:01

because yes, we're fucktarded enough to not notice what's proposed here is a closed f2pool - antpool loop. they're over there in their own parallel universe.

20:01

i dunno when it became fashionable to be infantile, but i'm getting pretty sick of it.

20:02

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187220 << so are they :D

20:02

Logged on 04-07-2015 17:23:18; trinque: yeah, I'm being hyperbolic

20:03

ohai punkman

20:05

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185652 << i really gotta post ak47.sh to the ml

20:05

Logged on 03-07-2015 19:49:35; shinohai: mod6: if you want another auto.sh, I'll try and help you when I understand this new build xD

20:06

"Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so, several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far."

20:06

leaving aside the inept spin they published, why the fuck are we pricing things in dollars.

20:06

I finally got it set up correctly this evening, it pays to look at things when you aren't fantastically drunk

20:06

have the decency to use zimbabwe pula or something

20:11

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185677 << ediff :P

20:11

Logged on 03-07-2015 19:56:42; trinque: could refine that to "and then presents me a buffer of the diff"

20:11

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185238 << lol asciilifeform check out how studious this guy is

20:11

Logged on 03-07-2015 15:30:34; scoopbot_revived: Hits and misses of Ted "The Unabomber" Kaczynski. http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/03/hits-and-misses-of-ted-the-unabomber-kaczynski/

20:12

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185240 << where the fuck was "blasphemy" ever illegal.

20:12

Logged on 03-07-2015 15:44:14; assbot: Iceland makes blasphemy legal - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1UhMCDq )

20:12

dude i grew up sheltered in communist romania.

20:12

How old are you MP?

20:13

bout 35

20:14

Oh that makes sense.

20:14

Lovely potato monument celebrating it

20:14

huh ?

20:15

The revolutionary potato

20:15

http://www.bucharestdailyphoto.com/photos/2009/09/IMG_9113.JPG

20:15

... ( http://bit.ly/1NEB48g )

20:15

>mfw I see a guy named "popescu" on the fbi wanted list.

20:15

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185320 << incidentally, twelve generations of peasants died in a pool of their own blood to get ownership over the fucking tools, as a precursor to over the land and eventually their life.

20:15

Logged on 03-07-2015 17:45:53; pete_dushenski: punkman: ah yes, how farmers don't own the tools of their trade. sad story, that.

20:15

these idiots gave it all back because they gotta be jwz.

20:16

no place on earth was ever such an openm insult to the human spirit as north america is these days.

20:16

except, perhaps, for africa. again.

20:17

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185329 << except cheaper to adapt the yard to the robot, as in all examination markets. so you get those round cultivated fields with a pillar in middle etc.

20:17

Logged on 03-07-2015 17:48:44; decimation: actually I would pay good money for a robot that could wonder through a yard and pull weeds

20:19

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185391 << they were, after all, jews

20:19

Logged on 03-07-2015 17:57:51; ascii_field: this is amply described in the literature

20:21

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185395 << ceausescu did exactly this. if police found you oin the street and you had no place of employment, you'd get a beating and get force-sent to either vocational prison-school if underage or work camp if overage.

20:21

Logged on 03-07-2015 17:58:57; trinque: pete_dushenski: I had this notion regarding the bums all over portland, that someone should take them to nearby farms for day labor in exchange for meals, showers, and somewhere to be warehoused at night.

20:21

this horrible trampling of rightrs and liberties resulted in a romania with absolutely no bums, and moreover, in the anedcodtic situation where i picked up a cab from the train station

20:21

and the cab driver was looking at this bum laying down

20:22

and he told me that he was an orphan, and that he got put by the commieus through the above grinder, and now he has a family and owns his car.

20:22

and i agree it's a pity nobody cares enough to beat up that bum.

20:22

so there we go.

20:23

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185400 << he got you there you know.

20:23

Logged on 03-07-2015 18:00:02; pete_dushenski: ascii_field: you buying a case of z80s or pogos is reallocating capital

20:23

even not counting the nsa etc ; pogo is a capital good.

20:24

!up ascii_modem

20:24

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1187759 << mno, capital (tm) shits money

20:24

Logged on 05-07-2015 00:23:01; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185400 << he got you there you know.

20:25

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185407 << plox to review the original discussion on the original list. http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/#selection-113.0-113.416

20:25

Logged on 03-07-2015 18:04:12; funkenstein_: only in so much as farmers and homeowners accept their counterfeits

20:25

Digging through archives yields gold on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEBNpS )

20:25

ascii_modem you're not going to redefine terms of art now, are you ?

20:25

iirc classic sense ?

20:25

i.e. my pants arent capital

20:25

capital goods produce value. all there is to them.

20:25

pogo is not your pants.

20:26

as much as running your own server is controlling a capital good. not a very significant one, but that's a quantitative discussion

20:27

arguably intelligence is similarly of a capital good, and you have enough control of it to, for instance, contribute here. other people do not have this luxury - for instance because they agreed some employer owns it all.

20:27

so... no.

20:27

sorta like gravity. yes, sufficiently far from solar system, anyone can become a 'stellar body' if you shove him out airlock

20:27

i thought you reasoned in categories.

20:28

aha

20:28

what's this "quantity is the determinator of quality" approach then ?

20:28

original thread was re 'who is wageslave and who - capitalist'

20:28

see ag3nt_zero, syllogism. reductio ad absurdum. present the op with a dilemma, so he can either explain what was misunderstood or correct what he misunderstood

20:28

well sure, original thread.

20:30

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185411 << they aren't always performing. most of them can't perform worth a shit. nevertheless, the sexual exploitation of women is an important element of mental health, including for the women in question, for women in general, for men in general...

20:30

Logged on 03-07-2015 18:06:43; mats: BingoBoingo: 'There's no regulation', '... and it's really difficult to believe that the girls who were crying when they're being "raped" are always acting and performing'

20:31

so i fully expect this to get "regulated".

20:33

pogo & the other junk is in different category than 'capital proper' in my mind because none of this stuff 'pays for itself'

20:33

as, e.g., fisherman's boat does

20:33

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185445 << to hear him say it, he's like that beat up chimp in the experiments

20:33

Logged on 03-07-2015 18:14:11; ascii_field: what family i've left is in it too

20:33

ascii_modem so far seemingly phuctor does ?

20:34

it's a pet, apparently

20:35

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185497 << what's the job mostly, looking at deep frozen pork bellies ?

20:35

Logged on 03-07-2015 18:25:12; pete_dushenski: public health inspector :)

20:36

for those who don't know - mircea_popescu contributed the bix phuctor runs on

20:36

box

20:36

comes out of nsa accts tho. eventually.

20:36

aha

20:36

so not clear how 'pays for self'

20:36

thus ?

20:37

rather, running on battery like other things

20:37

take the other side. i approved expenditure of ~7.5 btc on advertising as ceo of s.mg ; and of ~.25 (unreported, maybe next month i remember to put it in) on s.nsa.

20:38

the roi for the first was 0, the roi for the 2nd not 0.

20:38

how then, not "pay for self" ?

20:40

in other nyuz, i'm sitting under the megaphallus in washington, and blinking eye of sauron

20:40

send our most heartfelt regards

20:41

traditional holiday here. and there is a spybot in the cloud. which is lulzy because there is a huge sign, 'no smoking'-style, with crossed-out chopper

20:41

'no droning'

20:43

pet saw it too, after i pointed where to look

20:45

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.0005477 = 15.1165 BTC [+] {2}

20:45

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185519 << nowhere remarkable. why ?

20:45

Logged on 03-07-2015 18:37:57; mats: ;;later tell dignork http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2015#1025687 << this ever go anywhere?

20:47

contemplating hiring someone to work on it but it appears dignork has made much progress

20:47

eh, these hirign someone to work on things deals never work out.

20:48

shamir poker?!?

20:48

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185643 << this works ?

20:48

Logged on 03-07-2015 19:43:30; funkenstein_: "southern pride" spamming qntra in an effort to discredit the site methinks

20:49

yeah, ascii_modem

20:49

i'd ordinarily do all the work myself but carpal tunnel is a srs rate limiter

20:50

if kbd is your bottleneck, yerdoingitwrong

20:50

all that scrolling takes a toll

20:50

probably.

20:51

ditto

20:51

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185658 << this is not merely a difference of workflow, but a difference of philosophy. we are not interested in automation, we are interested in review and responsibility. the only concern that thing is adressing is that we find a critical bug tomorrow, i want to know who to negrate.

20:51

Logged on 03-07-2015 19:51:29; phf: mod6: sorry, i wasn't really prepared to explain what i mean, i thought you would just grok the request as an obvious one. we probably just have very different workflows

20:51

if you have megatonne of code, yerdoingitwrong

20:51

i don't even care what domain

20:52

I've never even learned to touchtype properly

20:52

this follows in the wake of a few threads mostly brought to a head by the opnessl idiocies you might wish to review phf if you've not seen them before.

20:52

me neither

20:52

ascii_modem harem, actually. "if you have a ton of babes, doing it wrong"

20:52

(truth!)

20:52

ascii_modem, oh good, thought it was just me

20:52

i don't touch type either, not usually.

20:53

How comes?

20:53

now i dont look at the buttonz, no

20:53

touch typing is good if you're going to do straight typing for mintues at a time. i normally do not. i suppose you do not either, need a mouse, a this, a buffer, a that etc.

20:53

most of the benefit of touch typing comes from not moving your "frame" above the kbd.

20:53

hands on/hands off touch typing is nonsense.

20:54

ascii_modem that's how i end up with stuff like ;; and xse in my history file :D

20:55

The main issue I have with touch typing is occasionally my fingers landing in the wrong order or similar derpery

20:56

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185688 << either that on a website-y thing or have an option for a new subscriber to get whole shebang ?

20:56

Logged on 03-07-2015 20:01:45; jurov: i have nothing against publishing the mailbox

20:57

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1185700 << this is a fact.

20:57

Logged on 03-07-2015 20:06:15; ascii_field: mats: iirc danielpbarron established that it ~has~ to use ssd

21:00

howlee sheit caught up on logs.

21:00

monstrous task.

21:01

lots of log forks

21:02

lol

21:07

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3c579i/yesterdays_fork_suggests_we_dont_need_a_blocksize/

21:07

Yesterday's fork suggests we don't need a blocksize limit : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1JFXckv )

21:07

Tardstalk citation

21:10

sigh.

21:10

how about it suggests we should stfu.

21:12

burrnnnn

21:12

The blocksizes at 1mb require broken mining, but bigger blocks will do... something

21:12

Oh god

21:12

my brain hurts

21:17

I like this style of annotation http://underscorejs.org/docs/underscore.html

21:17

underscore.js ... ( http://bit.ly/1JFXTdF )

21:23

punkman: probably a good format to annotate bitcoind

21:23

https://github.com/brynbellomy/otis

21:23

brynbellomy/otis · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JFYhci )

21:23

if anyone wants to crank some js

21:26

and a similar python thing, https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyccoon/0.1.0

21:26

pyccoon 0.1.0 : Python Package Index ... ( http://bit.ly/1JFYyM8 )

21:26

god there's a lot of these

21:31

re: Brazillian currency rigging

21:31

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3c3ymy/fifteen_of_the_worlds_largest_banks_are_under/cssfbvs

21:31

thats_bone comments on Fifteen of the world's largest banks are under investigation on suspicion of rigging the Brazilian currency, antitrust watchdog Cade said on Thursday, the first such probe in one of the busiest foreign exchange markets globally. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JFYYSK )

21:31

>I think the punishment for trading currencies should include execution in certain cases.

21:31

wut

21:32

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.00054197 = 3.6041 BTC [-]

21:40

Reddit is just a goldmine for retards

21:40

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3c3ymy/fifteen_of_the_worlds_largest_banks_are_under/css2ka0

21:40

sovereign_citizen comments on Fifteen of the world's largest banks are under investigation on suspicion of rigging the Brazilian currency, antitrust watchdog Cade said on Thursday, the first such probe in one of the busiest foreign exchange markets globally. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JFZDUn )

21:40

>Remember the Libor scandal and interest fixing cartel?

21:40

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal

21:40

>That was massive and NO ONE WENT TO JAIL. No one will go to jail for this either unless there is massive protesting. I would like to see people attack bankers with as much fervor as they attack ISIS. Bankers are literally worse than ISIS.

21:43

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3587 @ 0.00054771 = 1.9646 BTC [+]

21:47

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187182 < asciilifeform I recall a similar conversation we had > http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175692

21:47

Logged on 04-07-2015 16:41:04; asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...

21:47

Logged on 25-06-2015 04:44:07; decimation: knows more about how to pile asics than how to program bitcoind

21:50

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187304 < why? it's not like their political positions are secret?

21:50

Logged on 04-07-2015 20:48:14; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-07-2015#1186129 << a tape recorder is the one thing I forgot to bring (I had specifically prepared one for the event but forgot to pack it) -- the mere act of having such a device around free-staters would probably trigger them into a rage

21:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00054793 = 9.0408 BTC [+] {2}

21:51

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187330 < amen. the 'cost' imposed by the version increment has hardly any benefit

21:51

Logged on 04-07-2015 21:00:18; mircea_popescu: here's what's the idea : after botching the soft fork, it seems illogical that the entire bip system should continue at all.

22:04

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187537 < yeah but meanwhile the shitgnomes dig deeper. surely there's a point where they muck things up? or perhaps there's nothing to be done about it.

22:04

Logged on 04-07-2015 22:40:26; mircea_popescu: until we know exactly wtf to do about relayers, about miners now, there is no point. the prototype's still prototypin'.

22:07

on the other hand, the shitgnomes are doing a great job at discrediting themselves

22:20

292k+

22:23

asciilifeform: of mild interest from last night, apparently 'sipa' (Pieter Wuille) wrote a secp256k1 replacement library, apparently in attempt to ditch openssl https://github.com/bitcoin/secp256k1

22:23

bitcoin/secp256k1 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1gh7cnU )

22:24

he doesn't advertise it as complete or fully functional yet

22:31

Meant to be notably faster too, no?

22:31

yeah

22:33

!up Vexual

22:35

Vexual

ascii_modem might like a voice

22:36

decimation the lib in question was discussed in log at the time too

22:36

Vexual

perhaps it's just a succession of tunnels

22:36

I looked for it

22:37

it's the result of a for-profit venture of some sort, gmaxwell went on a reddit rampage explaining hopw they "found bugs" and how great the entire process is etc

22:37

it wasn't that great or anything, but it doesn't have much competition either.

22:38

obv bitcoin can't continue pulling in random code. this is an assault on sense, as far as we're concerned, and an assault on their turf as they perceive it, as far as the pr group is concerned.

22:38

so yeah, check it out, agreement!

22:40

now, as I pointed out with midnightmagic, it strikes me as backwards to develop a replacement before describing a spec

22:41

more importantly there's doubts as to the suitability of the curve in question etc

22:44