Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-03-09 | 2015-03-11 → ↓
00:02 ben_vulpes https://vid.me/e/HNrC << working on obedience at distance in casa vulpes esta noche
00:02 assbot Video upload (HNrC) - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOfSdC )
00:05 decimation mircea_popescu: re: terrorist < eh, I don't see it. what does it benefit the terrorist to even bother?
00:05 decimation other than being a megalomaniac and/or sick fuck
00:09 decimation on another note, another lesson to learn from the french revolution: the problem with being a lefty populist is that there's always someone else who is a little more left and a little more populist
00:10 decimation because unlike reactionaries, nobody on the left can actually claim to legitimately vest sovereignty in a particular person - all leftist government are of a temporary and emergency nature
00:11 cazalla not that i'd buy one, but at least these new mac laptops have 16:10 display.. with all the 16:9's doing away with master race 16:10's, it must be coming back into fashion
00:13 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: that beast yours ?
00:13 asciilifeform longdog is long
00:14 decimation asciilifeform: re: old macbooks < apparently coreboot supports the old 1,1 and 2,1 macbooks
00:15 asciilifeform decimation: iirc 'efi' (standard apple/sun/sgi bootloader) a) has published source b) doesn't do particularly much in the first place
00:16 decimation yeah, good point.
00:16 decimation the main issue are all the peripherals. they sort of work.
00:16 decimation but probably not suspend-to-ram
00:16 * asciilifeform has had more than his fill of 'sort of work
00:16 asciilifeform '
00:18 decimation more interesting are all of the server motherboards, but it seems like support is limited to old opterons
00:18 asciilifeform pretty much whole amd product line works
00:20 ben_vulpes why is suspend to ram such a big deal?
00:21 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: for me in particular? or asking why difficult to implement correctly
00:21 ben_vulpes for you in particular.
00:21 asciilifeform aha
00:21 asciilifeform because i often use machine for a minute or two at a time
00:21 asciilifeform and then put back on shelf or in bag
00:21 asciilifeform and have no desire to boot
00:22 asciilifeform or, conversely, to lose state when closed down
00:22 * asciilifeform does not carry out crypto or secret work of whatever kind on such machines
00:22 ben_vulpes http://imgur.com/F6KDREa << my beast, fairly long. yellow object is nine inches.
00:22 assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOkErI )
00:22 ben_vulpes also tonight the beast acquired a new trick: "hold the fuck still while i put things on you"
00:23 cazalla i love dogs but a dog in the house.. i dunno mang
00:23 asciilifeform ben_vulpes got the dog properly level ?
00:24 cazalla my staffy lived for 16 years and she was only permitted into the laundry
00:24 asciilifeform leg shape in toilet on upper right hand corner of photo is ben_vulpes ?
00:24 asciilifeform or other pet
00:25 cazalla asciilifeform, towel or gown is my bed
00:25 cazalla bet
00:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00032869 = 7.0011 BTC [+]
00:37 ben_vulpes hahahahaha
00:37 ben_vulpes towel.
00:37 asciilifeform lol
00:37 ben_vulpes y'no see the tag, and the drapes, and the tag, and the being of in the bathroom?
00:38 mircea_popescu <decimation> other than being a megalomaniac and/or sick fuck << kinda the definition.
00:39 asciilifeform processing of homo redditicus by countereconomic 'hobbyist' sick fuck is only one possibility
00:39 asciilifeform there is also colonization and industrial rendering for biodiesel.
00:40 mircea_popescu http://i.imgur.com/rjMI2Dh.gif
00:40 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOoCk4 )
00:40 asciilifeform a la incas or east eur. / east asia circa ww2
00:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6546 @ 0.00032732 = 2.1426 BTC [-]
00:51 BingoBoingo ;;ticker
00:51 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 295.55, Best ask: 295.58, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 295.58, 24 hour volume: 69823.21671155, 24 hour low: 278.21, 24 hour high: 298.95, 24 hour vwap: None
~ 38 minutes ~
01:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00031871 = 4.3823 BTC [-] {3}
~ 21 minutes ~
01:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65671 @ 0.00032748 = 21.5059 BTC [+] {2}
01:57 mircea_popescu hey, has doge registered the .moon tld yet ?
01:57 mircea_popescu doge.moon sounds pretty apt.
~ 17 minutes ~
02:15 BingoBoingo No idea if they have? can they afford a tld?
~ 15 minutes ~
02:31 mircea_popescu well if they sold all the doge in the world...
02:31 mircea_popescu i guess the answer im looking for is no.
02:36 mircea_popescu and in the daily wtf, http://40.media.tumblr.com/7213e1473373def4e3cff85f189a6ae1/tumblr_nira03BKqI1u1gbqro1_1280.jpg
02:36 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1F5PvAc )
02:42 ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047115 << this is why i don't quite buy the "trillion dollar project" argument.
02:42 assbot Logged on 10-03-2015 00:04:10; mircea_popescu: i can accept that SOME PEOPLE actually need their monitor to graphics. so make a gamestation. otherwise, we're fucking literate, we're not women, nothing beats text. ever.
02:42 mircea_popescu which argument is that ?
02:43 ben_vulpes redoing modern compute is impossible without your own icbm and maintenance staff for.
02:43 ben_vulpes icmbs*
02:43 ben_vulpes and silos and etc etc
02:43 mircea_popescu ah. alf just likes hyperbolae
02:43 ben_vulpes i know this, but for the loggerheads.
02:43 mircea_popescu a pretty good place to deploy them, too.
02:43 ben_vulpes the argument deserves surfacing.
02:43 mircea_popescu no rush anyway.
02:43 ben_vulpes it's a trillion dollar project if you swallow the whole spitoon of what constitutes modern computing.
02:43 ben_vulpes x11, the whole nine.
02:43 mircea_popescu the world was apparently content to wait fifty fucking years for us to come along
02:44 mircea_popescu it can wait while i finish my cake slice too.
02:45 mircea_popescu it's so apt that, you know that ilf of ilf & petrov fame also was an initialism ?
02:47 mircea_popescu for that matter, it is unclear to me that the notion of "fonts" adds any value whatsoever and is anything other than shitgnomism, 80s flavour.
02:47 mircea_popescu not to mention i still distinctly recall my cat-ish mistrust as an 8 yo boy confronted with "special symbols". why exactly something like $ is even needed, or useful, is imo still open to debate.
02:47 mircea_popescu 27 fucking letters and be happy if you get case next version.
02:50 scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/who-made-this/
02:52 mircea_popescu and with that, i'm off!
02:54 ben_vulpes https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=c517d838eb7d07bbe9507871fab3931deccff539
02:54 assbot kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git - Linux kernel source tree ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hs5VCs )
02:58 cazalla thestringpuller, ya see hotline miami 2 is out.. i didn't, it's fucking banned in australia lol
02:58 ben_vulpes movies get banned in oz?
03:01 cazalla yes, e.g battle royale
03:03 cazalla ken park was another
03:03 Bet placed: 11 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 20(Y):80(N) by weight. Total bet: 41.1069007 BTC. Current weight: 98,697.
~ 32 minutes ~
03:36 mats http://kukuruku.co/hub/diy/usb-killer
03:36 assbot USB Killer ... ( http://bit.ly/1E7ZbbH )
03:36 mats hello cuties
03:45 mats http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~yoonguk/papers/kim-isca14.pdf
03:45 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1E809EU )
03:48 ben_vulpes oh that's delightful
~ 17 minutes ~
04:05 punkman https://twitter.com/neweraesthetics/status/574869026817601536
04:05 assbot TREASURYPUNK http://t.co/GH9ig69CkR
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
05:12 davout ;;later tell mircea_popescu hory shet, i was just thinking about this, how every single bitcoin noob and nigger displays this particular feature, he has "found a problem", and "wants to fix it"
05:12 gribble The operation succeeded.
05:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18500 @ 0.00032202 = 5.9574 BTC [-]
~ 15 minutes ~
05:29 davout !rate justusranvier -10 not sure whether the guy is malicious, stupid or both. either way...
05:29 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6614a2b084e35879
05:30 davout !v assbot:davout.rate.justusranvier.-10:33cf38a1d7094b723a4e8dabbdb8362d2aabe73a3027fd1c9005f12243acc4b7
05:30 assbot Successfully added a rating of -10 for justusranvier with note: not sure whether the guy is malicious, stupid or both. either way...
05:30 davout ;;rate justusranvier -10 not sure whether the guy is malicious, stupid or both. either way...
05:30 gribble Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
05:30 davout ;;eauth davout
05:30 gribble Request successful for user davout, hostmask davout!~david@unaffiliated/davout. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/13288EAB01713428
05:31 davout ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:a6e8e3d9994b6f86570a948a761d8f8e9ec7e8f7240bc14b45ee3c59
05:31 gribble You are now authenticated for user davout with key 13288EAB01713428
05:31 davout ;;rate justusranvier -10 not sure whether the guy is malicious, stupid or both. either way...
05:31 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of -10 for user justusranvier has been recorded.
05:33 cazalla davout, that 20mb block size limit thread derailed 50 pages back
05:34 davout cazalla: yeah, that's right. i just need to kill some time while http://xkcd.com/303/
05:34 assbot xkcd: Compiling ... ( http://bit.ly/1wVwPlw )
05:45 kakobrekla speaking of xkcd, such pogo: http://xkcd.com/1495/
05:45 assbot xkcd: Hard Reboot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZBAWd )
05:49 davout kakobrekla: lmao
05:59 davout kakobrekla: you're not coming to BA btw?
06:00 kakobrekla correct.
06:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00032869 = 3.0239 BTC [+]
06:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15327 @ 0.00032921 = 5.0458 BTC [+] {3}
06:17 davout kakobrekla: :-(
~ 56 minutes ~
07:14 cazalla I’m actually, right now, working on just getting consensus among the five, what I call, core developers — the five developers who have push access to the git code. I think I’m getting close to convincing them that we have a plan that will work. I’m probably going to have to write some more code . . . I think we have a year to eighteen months. I would love the next release of bitcoin — the next major release, which will be sometime
07:14 cazalla in the June timeframe — to have a scheduled hardfork to increase the block size in it. I probably won’t get there. It’ll probably be in the release after that, but we’ll see.
07:14 cazalla i
07:14 cazalla i'll give you one guess as to who i am quoting
07:17 davout cazalla: gah-veen of course
07:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27067 @ 0.00032643 = 8.8355 BTC [-] {2}
~ 18 minutes ~
07:40 adlai cazalla: battle royale << i'm sorry but that was a terrible movie, basically Running Man without arnie = worthless
07:41 cazalla how dare you!
07:42 cazalla adlai, are you sure you're not confusing br1 with br2?
07:42 adlai usually i like cult films but this is an exception, if it wasn't for hours of boredom that had to be staved off somehow i'd never have even finished it
07:42 adlai hmmaybe? i just watched whatever the other sergeant said was a movie we had to watch
07:42 * adlai spent >90% of his lifelong screen-watching-time in the army
07:43 adlai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YAAku7kTro
07:43 assbot jarhead - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1EPXalL )
07:43 cazalla i enjoyed it but it's not exactly up there amongst my top fav cult films, that spot is claimed by a chinese ghost story and the young and dangerous series
07:44 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42442 @ 0.00033399 = 14.1752 BTC [+] {2}
07:45 adlai soylent green!
07:47 cazalla i'll have to check that one out
07:48 adlai what really amazed/disappointed me was that NONE of the initial press coverage of 'soylent cream' mentioned 'soylent green'
↖
08:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18359 @ 0.00033561 = 6.1615 BTC [+] {2}
08:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6691 @ 0.00033864 = 2.2658 BTC [+]
08:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00032873 = 5.9829 BTC [-]
~ 21 minutes ~
08:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26564 @ 0.00032873 = 8.7324 BTC [-]
~ 39 minutes ~
09:13 mircea_popescu davout ayup, it's a thing.
09:13 jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047115 << implies that text is by far fastest/most reliable channel to push bits into the brain
09:13 assbot Logged on 10-03-2015 00:04:10; mircea_popescu: i can accept that SOME PEOPLE actually need their monitor to graphics. so make a gamestation. otherwise, we're fucking literate, we're not women, nothing beats text. ever.
09:13 mircea_popescu it does.
09:13 jurov i concede all the other attempts were feeble, but it may not be the ultimate case
09:13 mircea_popescu if it weren't, we wouldn't CODE IN FUCKING TEXT
09:14 mircea_popescu the day someone makes derp++ and starts iterating splines in a cube conditional, we can revisit this.
09:15 mircea_popescu that said, feel free to draw out your love and other emotions, preferably directly on the object, with sticky matter.
09:15 jurov that's not what i'm saying
09:16 jurov i'm saying it looks like local optimum and when retina is fully reverse-engineered, better methods may be found
09:16 jurov but everyone is so used to text, it will be hard
09:16 jurov *local maximum
09:17 mircea_popescu that somehow didn't emerge. so wait, reverse engineer the retina ? in what sense ? it's pretty well described as is
09:18 jurov even if, the knowledge is not yet being used in practice to achieve better bitrates
09:18 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 105 @ 0.01643809 = 1.726 BTC [+] {5}
09:19 mircea_popescu i think the bitrate approach misses the fundamental point here. you'll never beat the bitrate of "put out random pixels" with any bitmap approach.
09:19 mircea_popescu this is where anything but text fails : no abstractive power.
09:19 mircea_popescu a curve does not meaningfully stand for a set of curves like a word stands for a set of words.
09:20 jurov there was the cad example, for curves that meaningfully stand for something
09:20 mircea_popescu only because there's a textual context to generously support it.
09:20 mircea_popescu you can't make a cad based kernel.
09:20 mircea_popescu and if you can't do that, which is the absolute bare minimum of communication, you can't do anything meaningful.,
09:21 jurov you don't tell me what i can do and don't. i already combine charts and text for production code
09:22 jurov but i consider things like drakon editor a feeble attempt led by gut feeling of russina mathematicians
09:22 jurov *russian
09:22 mircea_popescu well actually, yeah, this is what i do :) my fucking thesis was on the limits of knowledge.
09:22 jurov and woinder if they have known what we know of retina, how would it end up
09:22 mircea_popescu an' i'm tellin' you, "visual" is not a complete language.
09:23 mircea_popescu obviously it's an adjunct. everything can be an adjunct to speech.
09:23 dignork jurov: afaik it was russian project where they tried to build complex software, like space c&c.
09:23 mircea_popescu (In linguistics, an adjunct is an optional, or structurally dispensable, part of a sentence, clause, or phrase that, if removed or discarded, will not otherwise affect the remainder of the sentence.)
09:24 jurov lol. you know deafies are considering whole speech as "dispensable"
09:25 jurov signs are teh best!!1
09:25 mircea_popescu signs are a reimplementation of speech.
09:25 mircea_popescu this is like saying "my ms dos fixedsys display is graphical"
09:25 jurov not for prelingval deaf, the "grammar" is purely visual
09:25 mircea_popescu (i didn't mean speech as in the sound thereof)
09:26 jurov and they hate the 1:1 attempts to translat speech into signs
09:26 mircea_popescu eh, while i can appreciate the theoretical beauty of this "fuck you, i'm a dragon" approach, i do not credit it any. in fact, i think it only exists because the context is of the "fuck you, dragons" nature.
09:27 mircea_popescu and i think the sort of idiots running around pretending "everything;'s something!11" are doing deaf people a major disfavor.
09:29 jurov as compared to pretending "text is everything and forever will be"?
09:29 mircea_popescu right.
09:29 jurov i have videos and podcasts as anyone, but this?
09:29 jurov *hate
09:31 mircea_popescu let's move it in a different field. you acquainted with the happenstance that iconoclastic civilisations prospered intellectually whereas iconocladic civilisations failed ?
09:33 jurov yes
09:34 mircea_popescu so do you explain it ?
09:34 kakobrekla just lucky i guess.
09:35 jurov egypt prospered thousands of yeats with *very* augmented text
09:35 jurov *years
09:35 mircea_popescu to be fair, i loved the "visual equalizer" in whatever program first played mp3s on 386s, single session. and obviously computers are for pronz.
09:35 jurov the original discussion was that having X*Y fixed terminal is sufficient for every intellectual endeavor
09:36 jurov that was what prompted me
09:36 mircea_popescu more like, "x*y field terminal is great for cutting out timewasters"
09:39 jurov i see
09:39 mircea_popescu it forces people to think, and it simplifies the task of rooting out thoise who haven't. exactly the opposite service of a powerpoint presentation.
09:40 mircea_popescu but that said, computers are still for pronz.
09:40 adlai https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Quicksort_DRAKON.png vs http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Sorting_algorithms/Quicksort
09:40 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnisGd )
09:40 assbot Sorting algorithms/Quicksort - Rosetta Code ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gnitd1 )
09:40 mircea_popescu adlai you're not seriously proposing innovative pagination turns text into "graphical" do you ?
09:41 * adlai proposes nothing, just dumps links in the logs
09:41 mircea_popescu lol
09:41 mircea_popescu particularly bad example too, quicksort is like seven lines forty words.
09:41 adlai i've not yet encountered something which worked better for me than text, but i'm not sold on it being the global maximum, short of sticking wires in the brain
09:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it forces people to think, and it simplifies the task of rooting out thoise who haven't << why not goose quill pen, then
09:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's a simple restriction on volume.
09:42 asciilifeform i understand the appeal of 'this is the fucking army, you will paint the snow white until your fucking beg'
09:42 asciilifeform but pray tell what were the 'timewasters' on a 'symbolics' box ?
09:42 mircea_popescu well, more like, "if you can't say it in words you've not understood it"
09:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i will use your own body to defeat you! how long did you spent with the box, and how much did you make in that time ?
09:43 asciilifeform or for that matter mathematical symbols. modern mathematics -began- when they switched from naked words to the occasional piece of graphical 'garbage'
09:44 adlai how about "if you can't present it in an original fashion, you've not understood it"
09:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no dice. spent as little time as did with box because a good chunk of it is replicated in my modern 'emacs' - with which i've made just about everything in my adult life
09:44 mircea_popescu no it didn't. modern mathematics began once they gave up the "mysticism" and "unexpressible" and "obvious" visual/intuitive nonsense and started putting everything in words.
09:44 adlai granted, most presentations will be words
09:45 asciilifeform obligatory: http://files.bitcoin-assets.com/var/SymbolicsTalk28June2012.m4v
09:45 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQP4P9 )
09:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well then that's all i got, because i've never spent considerable enough time with one to say anything cogent.
09:46 adlai !s SymbolicsTalk28June2012.m4v
09:46 assbot 0 results for 'SymbolicsTalk28June2012.m4v' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=SymbolicsTalk28June2012.m4v
09:46 asciilifeform now all of this probably plays into mircea_popescu's thesis, because it turns out that the main use of graphical bitmaps in a 'symbolics' box or in my emacs is to better shovel text around
09:46 mircea_popescu heh!
09:46 asciilifeform adlai: it used to be a link to my site
09:46 asciilifeform adlai: but the original google video was censored
09:46 asciilifeform so we cached it.
09:46 mircea_popescu wait, we do that ?!
09:46 adlai aha, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=932
09:46 assbot Loper OS » Kalman Reti, the Last Symbolics Developer, Speaks of Lisp Machines. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQPvJ8 )
09:47 asciilifeform kakobrekla offered that time
09:47 asciilifeform because thing wasn't just some idiot talking, but a film of the machine in use
09:47 asciilifeform yet another example of an item for which you absolutely need a moving picture
09:48 mircea_popescu is it computer pronz ?
09:48 asciilifeform sumthinglikethat
09:48 adlai eh, the information in a video can be reliably conveyed through a transcript
09:48 asciilifeform adlai: nope.
09:48 asciilifeform not that one.
09:48 asciilifeform fucking watch it
09:48 adlai 2 minutes left
09:48 adlai until then, i'm here
09:49 * adlai remains silent, to leave some doubt
09:49 adlai asciilifeform: what of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=858 ?
09:49 assbot Loper OS » May 2012 Update ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQQhGd )
09:50 asciilifeform adlai: shelved
↖
09:50 adlai that's nice, for the shelf
09:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54100 @ 0.0003155 = 17.0686 BTC [-] {3}
09:50 asciilifeform adlai: because started falling into c shitpit
09:50 adlai why not write it in lisp?
09:51 asciilifeform adlai: because c os
09:52 asciilifeform adlai: if i could choose just one small idea from my entire set of writings to survive, it would be that 'abstractions push up'
09:52 asciilifeform as well as down
09:52 asciilifeform the basic idea was known to the ancients as 'spoonfull of shit in a barrel of honey'
09:52 asciilifeform iirc mircea_popescu had an article re: same.
09:52 adlai in this case, the problem is that limitations push upwards
09:53 mircea_popescu well... chicks not having two cunts certainly has made it so we don't have two penises, amirite ?
09:54 asciilifeform adlai: if you're curious, i quit the emulator when i realized that even the text output absolutely trivial on a dataflow machine cannot be rendered in real time on a von neumann box (simply attach dependency graph to each rectangle of video buffer ram)
09:54 asciilifeform to explain this in usable detail would take a while
09:54 asciilifeform but perhaps the basic idea is clear
09:54 adlai the basic idea is an obvious limitation of von neumann
09:55 asciilifeform and one that breaks, in practice, the turing thesis
09:55 asciilifeform some things -can't- be emulated usably
09:55 asciilifeform (mathematically - in 'batch mode' - yes. usably in real time - no)
09:55 asciilifeform now wondering if mircea_popescu will suggest bringing back batch processing
09:55 asciilifeform because that was surely the ultimate 'derp zapper'
09:55 mircea_popescu lol
09:56 asciilifeform batch programmers typically never even saw the machine...
09:56 mircea_popescu well actually, under the "least bugs in code" criteria, the best programming was done 1100ad - 1700ad.
09:57 mircea_popescu why stop at batch mode :D
09:57 asciilifeform there we go.
09:57 asciilifeform but going back to mathematical notation for a spell - let's write, e.g., a gnarly triple integral, in plain humanlang.
09:58 asciilifeform what a bitch it'd be
09:58 asciilifeform good abstractions are not only orthogonal and well-chosen, but -compact-
09:58 asciilifeform brainspacewise
09:58 mircea_popescu trivial to write integrals in plain language, what.
09:58 mircea_popescu "integral"
09:59 asciilifeform i said triple
09:59 asciilifeform with varying params
09:59 mircea_popescu i still dunno why you think the current notation is somehow nonverbal.
10:00 asciilifeform it isn't nonverbal in the sense of what geometers liked to do
10:00 asciilifeform but used 'weird symbols' not found on my keyboard, was the point
10:01 mircea_popescu well that's your point, but notrly what was discussed. a simple mapping from that to "integral" and problem solved.
10:01 mircea_popescu a symbol is a symbol.
10:01 asciilifeform http://www.tutapoint.com/kcimages/TripleIntegraParaboloidPlate_.jpg << pulled out of the aether arbitrarily for folks who had too many years from school
10:01 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQTHIT )
10:01 asciilifeform to illustrate what is being spoken of
10:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27660 @ 0.00032652 = 9.0315 BTC [+] {2}
10:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: simple mapping to the word brutally linearizes the expression
10:02 asciilifeform forces you to demunge it in your head
10:02 asciilifeform there is a reason why newton and leibniz both came up with new symbols for this example
10:02 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 500 @ 0.01588043 = 7.9402 BTC [-] {8}
10:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29540 @ 0.00034136 = 10.0838 BTC [+]
10:02 mircea_popescu "triple integral for x = 4y**2 + 4z**2 and x=4"
10:03 asciilifeform and what of the bounds ?
10:03 asciilifeform glommed on separately somewhere ?
10:03 mircea_popescu implicit neh ?
10:03 asciilifeform l0l!
10:03 mircea_popescu but it is!
10:03 asciilifeform in this problem!
10:03 mircea_popescu WHICH IS MY POINT :D
10:03 asciilifeform whatddoihavetodo, scan a schoolbook! lol
10:04 mircea_popescu exactly! see ?
10:04 asciilifeform let's suppose they weren't implicit.
10:04 asciilifeform easily most of real life
10:04 mircea_popescu the very general case where it's easier to show me than to tell me reduces to pr0n.
10:05 mircea_popescu (/me could have been deformed by years of insisting pets verbalize as part of their education)
10:05 asciilifeform or simply to the fact that straight line of alphabet yes, can unambiguously describe everything. but it takes titanic space for a large class of concepts
10:06 asciilifeform human languages as a class aren't even automatically unambiguous structurewise, and to hammer them into this shape results in the kind of verbiage that led people to invent 'squigglies' in the first place.
10:06 mircea_popescu the more important point here was if you're somehow going to leverage the visual processor to think with, rather than whether it sometimes saves representative space for the linguistic processor to conveniently symbolize.
10:07 mircea_popescu natural language "ambiguity" is a machine problem, not a human problem.
10:07 asciilifeform when you teach the pets to reassemble kalash, will it be visually (tactile!) or verbally ?
10:07 jurov there are cases linguistic processor may require storage of more than 7 items
10:07 * adlai sees a surprising parallel between processing a long string of characters and the von neumann approach to executing a linear sequence instructions referring an array of memory...
10:07 jurov which it the core of the problem
10:07 mircea_popescu adlai not coincidental either.
10:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform pronz!
10:08 mircea_popescu there's no understanding involved in mashing the bits together. i also teach cooking by example only.
10:08 mircea_popescu jurov 7 bits should be enough for everyone!
10:09 asciilifeform i think he was speaking of the 7 levels of stack thing
10:09 jurov yes.
10:09 asciilifeform i've seen it trotted out as an argument that it is impossible to program in common lisp
10:09 jurov and mnemonics is all about replacing the stuff eith rememberable *visual* interpretation
10:09 asciilifeform because one encounters sometimes more than 7 levels of nesting
10:09 asciilifeform which was a mega-l0l
10:11 jurov i'm trying to get at that... you have to convert text into some internal representation in order to store more thasn 7 items
10:11 adlai 7 is some average (mode?) though, rather than a neurological law.
10:11 jurov so why it not possivble to feed these more directly to the brain?
10:11 asciilifeform it is.
10:12 asciilifeform i promised yesterday to say why i quit the ibm green phosphour terminal; this was why
10:12 mircea_popescu jurov you know this is nonsense. i store thousands of items.
10:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: likely thinking of a different 'store'
10:13 jurov but not as text!
10:13 jurov i have seen you to mangle several names for example
10:13 asciilifeform the original '7' thing was re: short-term memory and juggling arbitrary symbols as strings
10:13 adlai http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ
10:13 mircea_popescu jurov nothing is error free, not even non-ecc memory.
10:13 mircea_popescu nevertheless, my articles are generally preformed and i just tyoe them out.
10:13 adlai like wagner
10:14 mircea_popescu most of the "mind science" is pure gunk, ftr.
10:14 mircea_popescu and it doesn't start with pharma, freud was closer to a fraud than anything. and all the way back.
10:14 jurov ^ yes, that i meant by "feeble attempts" to present nontext information
10:15 asciilifeform 'What’s the real difference between having a type signature in your short-term memory or prominently displayed in your second monitor? What’s the real difference between writing a comment in your mind or touch-typing it as fast as you create it? Just some speed. Just some time. And the more visible that type signature is, the faster you can type out that comment, the larger your ‘memory’ gets. And the larger your memor
10:15 asciilifeform y is, the more intelligent/productive you can be.'
10:15 asciilifeform ^ will sign under every word of that
10:16 mircea_popescu minus the last sentence.
10:16 mircea_popescu if memory made intelligence, computers'd be pretty smart.
10:16 asciilifeform it's only true in the opposite
10:16 asciilifeform artificially clamping your memory -> stupider
10:17 asciilifeform like strapping weights to a runner
10:17 mircea_popescu maybe.
10:17 asciilifeform removing bricks from on top another brick, will not make the latter a faster runner...
10:17 mircea_popescu hahaha
10:17 mircea_popescu ok that's maybe your best analogy to date.
10:18 jurov the human memory is content addressable. computers are very poor at that
10:20 asciilifeform jurov: a von neumann limitation.
10:20 asciilifeform jurov: think about how you can't 'ask' every machine word in your ram simultaneously whether it 'equals such-and-such'
10:20 asciilifeform have to go through all $maxint of it and ask, ask, ask...
10:20 asciilifeform because idiocy
10:21 asciilifeform there is no physical/electrical reason why it can't worh the other way
10:21 nubbins` http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cia-hacked-iphone-ipad-mac-security-snowden-documents-reveal-extent-privacy-invasion-1491258
10:21 assbot CIA hacked iPhone, iPad and Mac security – Snowden documents reveal extent of privacy invasion ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQZNZN )
10:21 asciilifeform !s TWINKLE
10:21 assbot 11 results for 'TWINKLE' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=TWINKLE
10:21 jurov yes, that. but it is fully parallel comparison really doable on 2D silicon?
10:21 nubbins` "As well as targeting the iPhone and iPad directly, the CIA also claims to have developed a poisoned version of Xcode, the software development tool used by app developers to create the apps sold through Apple's hugely successful App Store. It is unclear how the CIA managed to get developers to use the poisoned version of Xcode, but it would have allowed the CIA install backdoors into any apps created using their version."
10:21 nubbins` dat toolchain o.O
10:21 asciilifeform compiler-infection is as old as time.
10:24 adlai !s trusting trust
10:24 assbot 13 results for 'trusting trust' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=trusting+trust
10:25 asciilifeform https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2015/03/10/strawhorse-attacking-macos-ios-software-development-kit << at least they cite thompson.
10:25 assbot Strawhorse: Attacking the MacOS and iOS Software Development Kit - The Intercept ... ( http://bit.ly/1KR1kis )
10:27 adlai antecedent failure... for a moment, parsed that as [firstlook] cite thompson... but i guess they're just journalists
10:33 asciilifeform lol re: usg spending $maxint to extract apple symmetric key from cpu
10:33 adlai here's something that doesn't translate well to text: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/C-element-from-NANDs.svg
10:33 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KR3lva )
10:33 asciilifeform where are the moles?
10:33 asciilifeform adlai: a good chunk of the total world of engineering fits in this category
10:34 asciilifeform know the saying 'picture is worth 1000 words' ? it isn't a joke
10:34 asciilifeform and 1000 is, often, optimistic
10:34 adlai eh, you can describe this picture in less than 1000
10:34 mircea_popescu the only reason that picture is even meaningful to you is because you long ago digested its text
10:34 adlai on the contrary
10:34 mircea_popescu so now it's symbolized and you look at it and you figure hey, it's so much better than text
10:35 adlai the only text which i needed was the filename
10:35 mircea_popescu not unlike ruby programmer imagining "o wow, so much better than asm".
10:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the reasons whereby ruby sucks have nothing to do with the representation
10:36 * adlai would've had to use trial-and-error to figure out which gate was represented, if the filename hadn't specified it
10:36 mircea_popescu otherwise, it translates to text quite perfectly well, and plainly : "if and only if". but this is familiar to people trained in humanities more than in cs i guess.
10:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the c-gate !?!
10:36 asciilifeform nope.
10:36 * asciilifeform suggests actually understanding what adlai linked to
10:37 * mircea_popescu looks at gate again
10:37 asciilifeform i regard c-gate as among the greatest inventions in 20th c. electronics
10:37 asciilifeform (even though it is used virtually nowhere...)
10:37 * adlai is trying to actually understand what loper-os links to...
10:37 mircea_popescu "if not both"
10:37 asciilifeform it lets you have asynchronous circuits without metastability problems
10:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the function of the 'extra' gates does not become clear unless you understand why extant cpus (which do not use muller's c-gate) need 'clocks' at all
10:38 asciilifeform they have to wait for inputs to 'settle'
10:39 asciilifeform because an ordinary logic gate can enter a 'metastable' wedge-state if it is given a 'pathological' input transition (i.e. you try to use the output before the inputs are stable)
10:40 * mircea_popescu has been spending some time looking at this circuitry, understands why it backfeeds now.
10:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 161 @ 0.0143529 = 2.3108 BTC [-] {7}
10:40 mircea_popescu i'll note you'd have had a much more reliable response had you described rather than shown :)!!!
10:40 mircea_popescu seeing how i'm not an electrical engineer, i'm prone to misinterpret. the boon of ignorance.
10:41 asciilifeform but if didn't show, only explained why, the thing would have to be re-invented to be built
10:41 asciilifeform not necessarily impossible - but who's to say when.
10:41 mircea_popescu not our concern, now is it.
10:41 asciilifeform my concern because life is short and i want to compute with c-gates.
10:42 mircea_popescu and this is why i became a theoretical physicist
10:42 mircea_popescu albeit briefly.
10:42 asciilifeform wanted to see something physzed ?
10:42 mircea_popescu no, simply did not give a shit.
10:42 mircea_popescu but anyway, this IS a pretty beautiful thing huh ?
10:43 asciilifeform sure is
10:43 asciilifeform !s c-gate
10:43 assbot 5 results for 'c-gate' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=c-gate
10:43 mircea_popescu it actually can't ever be metastable can it.
10:43 asciilifeform ^ iirc we did it a bit
10:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not sure if this is rigorously proven, but approximately yes
10:44 asciilifeform but at any rate they do not end up wedged in practice (folks with $maxint have built otherwise conventional cpu without clock using c-gate, they don't wedge)
10:44 asciilifeform exhibits other interesting properties.
10:44 asciilifeform you cool it down, it speeds up
10:44 mircea_popescu it would
10:44 asciilifeform (no clock, so only propagation delays matter)
10:44 mircea_popescu right
10:45 asciilifeform but i seem to be the only one who (publicly) realized that it is the very thing for building dataflow comp.
10:45 asciilifeform and was in fact the missing ingredient
10:45 mircea_popescu i wonder if there;s a limit of how many you can plop together before you end up in some novel hell
10:45 asciilifeform if never metastable, then no
10:45 asciilifeform unless novel hell is of some higher-level mathematical variety
10:46 asciilifeform rather than physical effect of individual gate
10:46 mircea_popescu right.
10:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36268 @ 0.00034671 = 12.5745 BTC [+] {2}
10:47 asciilifeform but one can put together a few mil. of these, without any apparent daemonic possession of the machine, is what we experimentally have so far.
10:47 asciilifeform somebody even sells a clockless 'arm'.
10:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7682 @ 0.0003474 = 2.6687 BTC [+]
10:47 asciilifeform (that, afaik, is the limit of what anyone with actual funding has dared)
10:48 asciilifeform !s achronix
10:48 assbot 0 results for 'achronix' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=achronix
10:48 asciilifeform or hmm, maybe that wasn't it
10:49 asciilifeform !up stoya
10:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34000 @ 0.00033701 = 11.4583 BTC [-]
10:59 asciilifeform http://www.railslove.com/stories/my-way-into-clojure-building-a-card-game-with-om-part-1#Other_Misgivings << mega-l0l (from server logs)
↖
10:59 assbot My Way into Clojure: Building a Card Game with Om - Part 1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mq5gEq )
11:00 asciilifeform '...we should start with cleaner hardware, then write a cleaner replacement for the JVM (same cross-platform capabilities!?, same performance optimisations!?), as well as all its libraries... we'd be busy at least for another decade and required backing from several large companies.'
11:00 * asciilifeform wrote a flame many years ago and the 'butthurt' over it never seems to abate
11:01 asciilifeform and there's something palpably poisonous about that page
11:01 asciilifeform not sure what the word for it is
~ 23 minutes ~
11:25 asciilifeform incidentally, my explanation at 14:39:46 is a bit broken but i'll leave it as exercise for the reader.
~ 45 minutes ~
12:10 PeterL asciilifeform:but going back to mathematical notation for a spell - let's write, e.g., a gnarly triple integral, in plain humanlang. << When writing such an integral, I use words in my head as I put down the symbols (eg. integral from 0 to 2pi integral from 0 to 1 integral from 4r^2 to 4 of xdxrdrd(theta) )
12:18 Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 92.9005122 BTC. Current weight: 63,712.
12:22 jurov http://kukuruku.co/hub/diy/usb-killer?ModPagespeed=noscript asciilifeform, good addition to cardano, i guess :D
12:22 assbot USB Killer ... ( http://bit.ly/1ExDAMz )
12:24 jurov "windows detected? zap it"
12:31 PeterL https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/plumgeek/ringo-the-palm-size-robot-with-real-personality?ref=video this looks fun
12:31 assbot Ringo – The palm size robot with real personality! by Plum Geek — Kickstarter ... ( http://bit.ly/1B0MlaK )
12:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49314 @ 0.00032918 = 16.2332 BTC [-]
~ 18 minutes ~
12:53 mats http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/us/secede-republic-claims-texas-never-joined-us.html
12:53 assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1wpUaeG )
~ 19 minutes ~
13:13 jurov ;;ticker
13:13 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 296.55, Best ask: 296.71, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 296.75, 24 hour volume: 83665.82771177, 24 hour low: 284.39, 24 hour high: 303.96, 24 hour vwap: None
~ 21 minutes ~
13:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15386 @ 0.00033681 = 5.1822 BTC [+]
~ 22 minutes ~
13:57 BingoBoingo http://m.mlb.com/news/article/112007650/switch-pitcher-pat-venditte-started-young
13:57 assbot Switch-pitcher placed on path early by dad | MLB.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1KS1d6h )
13:57 BingoBoingo !up HeySteve
13:57 * thestringpuller is excited for baseball season. Anyone else?
13:58 HeySteve hey. anyone gone through this yet? https://medium.com/@chrispacia/subspace-73059a1cff71
13:58 assbot Subspace — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1KS1qXa )
13:58 HeySteve not sure how it improves over bitmessage
13:58 * adlai hasn't, beyond knowing that they claim to not require everybody to store everything (which bitmessage requires)
14:00 BingoBoingo !up ascii_field
14:01 thestringpuller ascii_field is with us live from the streets
14:01 ascii_field 'subspace' >> 'Unfortunately, downloading all messages scales very poorly. In Subspace, we use a filtering technique that allows us to mix our messages with a user-defined subset of the total message space, reducing your bandwidth consumption while preserving your privacy.' >> shitgnomism
14:01 adlai the catcher in the _field
14:01 ascii_field 'let's do this thing except we'll do it without actually doing it because actually doing it is omghardm4thish4rd and weloveruby'
14:02 * ascii_field throws up a little just writing this
14:03 ascii_field in other news, apparently apple released a portable machine that not only has slower cpu clock than the typical such box 5 yrs. ago - but cannot charge and use an external peripheral at the same time!
14:03 ascii_field literally. there is exactly one jack
14:03 thestringpuller http://insidebitcoins.com/news/gavin-andresen-optimistic-about-scaling-bitcoin/30652 << Gavin is throwin out dates for axe and sword time
14:03 thestringpuller ascii_field and danielpbarron: generals of the pogo army
14:05 kakobrekla i heard the 100 dorra device you plug into it can indeed charge at same time as you use usb or whatever it is
14:05 thestringpuller "I’m actually, right now, working on just getting consensus among the five, what I call, core developers — the five developers who have push access to the git code. I think I’m getting close to convincing them that we have a plan that will work. I’m probably going to have to write some more code . . . I think we have a year to eighteen months. I would love the next release of bitcoin — the next major release, which wi
↖
14:08 ascii_field the turdmeisters replacing the genuine blockchain download process with an 'equivalent' one that 'omg111itfinallyscales!!11' - was inevitable
↖
14:08 ascii_field this is their most beloved gambit
14:09 ascii_field take something that works but doesn't 'democratize' enough, or can be spun as such, and replace it with sham 'equivalent'
14:09 kakobrekla re adapter, but i havent really bothered reading http://www.cnet.com/products/apple-usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter/
14:09 assbot Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter Preview - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1KS4wdM )
14:13 ascii_field http://insidebitcoins.com/news/multiple-teams-creating-bitcoin-based-prediction-markets/30429 << notice what site is missing from this article
↖
14:13 assbot Multiple Teams Creating Bitcoin-based Prediction Markets | Inside Bitcoins | Bitcoin news | Price | Bitcoin Conferences ... ( http://bit.ly/1AdIwzT )
14:14 ascii_field obligatory: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916
14:14 assbot Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
14:15 adlai thestringpuller: you're missing the best part of the talk: "A tenth of a Bitcoin for anyone who takes the livestream and puts a pope hat on me during the stream. That would be awesome." http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/mit-bitcoin-expo-2015/keynote-gavin-andresen/
14:15 assbot keynote-gavin-andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/1AdIMPc )
14:16 kakobrekla ascii_field not missing, 'betmoose' is right there, in the first comment.
↖
14:16 ascii_field bitbet
14:17 ascii_field not that it 'needs' to be in there
14:17 ascii_field down in the sewer
14:18 kakobrekla bb css is not up to par.
14:19 kakobrekla i always sucked at that.
14:19 ascii_field http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/us/secede-republic-claims-texas-never-joined-us.html << idiots who still imagine that a legalistic pill against usg exists. as described in mircea_popescu's 'sovereign citizens' article.
14:19 assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1wpUaeG )
14:20 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/bitcoin-stash-baffles-dutch-police/
14:21 adlai "fight fire with fire" breaks down when The Law is above itself
14:21 ascii_field 'rule of law' is fundamentally a scam
14:21 ascii_field always was.
14:21 ascii_field obligatory classic: http://faculty.msb.edu/hasnasj/GTWebSite/MythWeb.htm
14:21 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AdJUCp )
14:22 ascii_field the only thing statal (vs tribal) law ever was, is a '3 ring binder' affair to simplify peasant-herding
14:23 ascii_field so you (crown) don't have to personally sit and review every idiot land dispute, stray ox, etc
14:23 ascii_field but can delegate
14:24 ascii_field but the (very modern!) notion that the state would or could tie its own hands - lunacy.
14:25 ascii_field !s rule of law
14:25 assbot 31 results for 'rule of law' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rule+of+law
14:31 jurov "since french revolution" is "very modern" ?
14:33 jurov and some such idea can be discerned in Roman Republic, too
14:38 PeterL ascii_field: there is something to be said for making it hard to change laws, if changing the law is too easy then nobody will be able to keep track of it
14:43 kakobrekla do you keep track of it now?
14:43 PeterL big changes get put in the news, usually
14:44 kakobrekla so thats a no
14:44 PeterL right, I am not saying the current system is good
14:45 kakobrekla so if its not good why want to change it slowly
14:46 PeterL well, once you get a good system, then make it change slowly
14:47 kakobrekla ok grandpa.
14:47 PeterL bleh, maybe I just have no idea what I am talking about
~ 16 minutes ~
15:04 BingoBoingo http://cl.jroo.me/z3/I/a/d/e/a.baa-Love-between-dog-and-tiger.jpg
15:04 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GCazAe )
15:15 thestringpuller ;;later tell danielpbarron re: hosting images, direct that inuiry to BingoBoingo
15:15 gribble The operation succeeded.
15:16 ben_vulpes <ascii_field> in other news, apparently apple released a portable machine that not only has slower cpu clock than the typical such box 5 yrs. ago - but cannot charge and use an external peripheral at the same time! << they want you to buy a thing to make more holes
15:18 ben_vulpes still
15:18 ben_vulpes hyuuuuu
~ 27 minutes ~
15:45 cazalla kakobrekla: ascii_field not missing, 'betmoose' is right there, in the first comment. <<< might be the funniest thing i've read for a while
~ 34 minutes ~
16:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00030968 = 4.7381 BTC [-] {3}
16:24 BingoBoingo !up excelor
16:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11688 @ 0.00030762 = 3.5955 BTC [-]
~ 20 minutes ~
16:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.0003006 = 9.2284 BTC [-] {2}
17:04 cazalla http://qntra.net/2015/03/alleged-usms-auction-winner-leaves-eldritch-message/
17:04 assbot Alleged USMS Auction Winner Leaves Eldritch Message | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHfdsW )
17:05 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/alleged-usms-auction-winner-leaves-eldritch-message/
17:05 cazalla ;;later tell mircea_popescu lucy, u got some 'splain' to do!
17:05 gribble The operation succeeded.
17:07 cazalla how interesting is that eh
17:11 thestringpuller LOL
17:11 thestringpuller a mircea_popescu appears
17:12 mircea_popescu aha ?
17:12 mircea_popescu ;;ticker
17:12 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 294.75, Best ask: 295.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 295.04, 24 hour volume: 67374.24839178, 24 hour low: 287.91, 24 hour high: 303.96, 24 hour vwap: None
17:12 mircea_popescu wtf is this no vwap srsly.
17:12 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
17:12 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 291.98, vol: 13364.07282246 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 289.92, vol: 14891.63951 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 294.99, vol: 67374.24839178 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 293.5286, vol: 199564.72520000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 295.0, vol: 28.37516667 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 293.6175, vol: 257.91908055 | Volume-weighted last average: 293.610134295
17:12 mircea_popescu ;;calc 1950 / 295
17:12 gribble 6.61016949153
17:14 mircea_popescu davout http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/#comment-112937 btw.
17:14 assbot The conference, third edition pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHiI2F )
17:14 mircea_popescu and check this shit out : http://trilema.com/2013/various-kinds-of-stickiness/#comment-112932
17:14 assbot Various kinds of stickiness pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHiMPR )
17:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00030333 = 5.0049 BTC [+]
17:14 mircea_popescu (real dooglus btw)
17:14 mircea_popescu !up dooglus
17:15 thestringpuller ah so mr. davout is going to conference
17:17 mircea_popescu $conference
17:17 thestringpuller that bot is down
17:17 mircea_popescu btw - only a few days left, hurry up in case the btc collapses.
17:18 ben_vulpes bit rottttt
17:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform:!up stoya <omfg no fucking wai.
17:19 mircea_popescu stoya was here ?!
17:25 davout mircea_popescu: ty for the quote
17:25 davout however, it has more than 8 decimal places
17:26 thestringpuller :D
17:26 davout and if we're doing signatures it's probably the payment address that needs to be signed along with the amount
17:29 mircea_popescu davout it's a running joke with jurov and others that watch the mpex statements :)
17:29 mircea_popescu davout notrly, because i may have to verify people later, in person, whereas you won't have to verify payments later in a different venue.
17:29 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: it's not funny. this is srs bsns.
17:30 mircea_popescu that's what makes it funny.
17:30 thestringpuller like nubbins` joking about dufflebag of cocaine in trunk while we cross canadian border
17:30 thestringpuller sure we end up in jail, but it was funny!
17:33 BingoBoingo !up _FeltPen
17:33 thestringpuller i like how plane ticket is more expensive than VIP ticket
17:33 thestringpuller like wtf airlines
17:34 thestringpuller ben_vulpes: how much was it from up there in the mountains?
17:36 BingoBoingo !up ascii_field
17:38 ascii_field mircea_popescu: who knows which stoya
17:38 ascii_field it didn't talk..
17:38 ascii_field i like how plane ticket is more expensive than VIP ticket << where'ya flying from
17:39 ascii_field greenland ?
17:39 * mircea_popescu would rather see stoya here than paul graham.
17:39 ascii_field only if actual stoya
17:40 mircea_popescu same for pg :)
17:42 davout mircea_popescu: i noticed the decimals thing on mike_c's quote as well :)
17:42 davout as for the signature, how do i verify your wordpress wasn't haxxored?
17:43 ascii_field possibly we do a 'key party' this time ?
17:43 davout ascii_field: totally
17:43 davout with mandatory s.nsa collider std check
17:44 ascii_field incidentally, if someone wants to generate a fatter key, now would probably be a good time
17:44 mircea_popescu ascii_field yep, we are.
17:44 mircea_popescu davout for one, it's the sameaddress everyone else paid to
17:45 mircea_popescu the beauty of reusing addresses.
17:45 mircea_popescu ascii_field has an excellent point : this is a fine time to make new keys / reorganize the keyplan, make a master key which then signs other keys as you need etc.
17:46 davout mebbe the haxxorer also changed other addresses on the same page, signing can't really hurt can it
17:46 mircea_popescu also i'm very well connected into the old style strong set, so there is that.
17:46 mircea_popescu davout it can't hurt but i'm about to hop in a car. will make a deed when im back later
17:47 mircea_popescu speaking of which yo trinque ! old deeds ? new display style ?
17:47 davout mircea_popescu: no worries, just poking at you
17:47 mircea_popescu (also what i meant was, you can check thje address see payments received)
17:48 davout which dates and amounts i crosscheck against... teh webpage :p
17:48 thestringpuller davout: how do I get a French passport?
17:49 ascii_field lol 'meee tooo'
17:49 davout thestringpuller: marry a french chick i guess
17:49 ascii_field want cheaper!
17:49 thestringpuller wait that works?
17:49 davout thestringpuller: why do you want a communist nation's passport anyway?
17:49 trinque mircea_popescu: yeh, in sqlite it's all still broken into parts; I might be able to hax that tonight
17:50 ascii_field davout: because anything other than usa
17:50 ascii_field even nork
17:50 thestringpuller davout: although France is communist, they got style
17:50 thestringpuller haven't you heard Niggas In Paris?!?
17:52 davout haha what about them?
17:52 davout (and technically you could also marry a french dude!)
17:52 thestringpuller LOL
17:52 mircea_popescu what french dude'd have him ?
17:53 mircea_popescu anyway, im off! tell all the stoyas.
17:54 davout i presume anchor kids could also work
17:54 davout or just come, hang around naked on a beach, pretend you're amnesiac
17:54 ascii_field davout: whatcha gonna suggest next, the 'foreign legion', lol
17:55 davout ascii_field: hah! that too
17:55 thestringpuller ahaha
17:55 davout go marry a french legionnaire
17:57 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/windows-stuxnet-patch-left-vulnerability-open/
17:59 _FeltPen excellent. qntra does good work, that site is how I discovered this channel. fwiw.
17:59 ascii_field BingoBoingo: mega-lol!
17:59 ascii_field but did you really expect microshit to patch without opening a new orifice? because that'd be a first.
18:00 ascii_field in fact (not big secret!) professional 0day-diggers regard microshit's patches as a golden source of goodies
18:00 ascii_field and occupy much of their time reversing them
18:00 BingoBoingo ascii_field: Not at all, but it is interesting how the ghost of HP is trying to do anything it can to say "Butt weur gud guiz, buy from us"
18:01 BingoBoingo _FeltPen: cool
18:01 thestringpuller Ballmer was the Nero of MicroPoo
18:06 danielpbarron i had to literally de-"bug" .. :/
18:06 danielpbarron !up ascii_field
18:12 danielpbarron !up airgapped
~ 27 minutes ~
18:39 BingoBoingo !up ascii_field
18:53 danielpbarron height=268264 vs height=204752
18:58 BingoBoingo lol, looks like in the case of bullets vs. ATF bullets have recieved a reprieve http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2015-03-021015-advisory-notice-those-commenting-armor-piercing-ammunition-exemption-framework.html
18:58 assbot Notice to those Commenting on the Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework | ATF ... ( http://bit.ly/18yUUmp )
19:11 BingoBoingo !up stunna
~ 16 minutes ~
19:27 kakobrekla perspective matters; http://shrani.si/f/3j/PS/2nc2wx0t/outputqwydkc.gif
19:27 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1C5bx71 )
19:28 BingoBoingo That's a good one
19:36 adlai not his fault, he got framed
~ 29 minutes ~
20:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00032355 = 8.7035 BTC [+] {2}
20:12 cazalla TIL danielpbarron is mircea_popescu
↖ ↖
20:13 cazalla and here i thought it was nubbins or perhaps even hanbot
20:17 danielpbarron i guess it's the beard or something
20:18 jurov can't he be everyone?
20:18 danielpbarron new tshirt slogan for nubbins "I AM MP"
20:20 BingoBoingo http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2015/03/05/chemistry_incident_in_manchester.php
20:20 assbot Chemistry Incident in Manchester. In the Pipeline: ... ( http://bit.ly/1b0JQQF )
20:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00032424 = 18.8383 BTC [+]
20:23 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: reprieve << ahaha lol no. it's the usual 'we'll slip it up your arse later when brouhaha is over and nobody's paying attention' usg business.
20:25 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: They will likely try that yes. It's just very expensive politically to anger the gun lobby in this way.
20:25 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ratchet still cranks.
20:25 asciilifeform when has usg legalized anything formerly forbidden ?
↖
20:26 asciilifeform that'd be like a lion un-eating a gazelle
20:26 BingoBoingo Well, there was that one time they listened to women on booze and retracted, but it was an earlier time.
20:26 cazalla danielpbarron, it could be the beard, i'd wager there is a higher ratio of men with beards than not in #b-a and higher ratio of men with bikini wax at /r/bitcoin
20:26 asciilifeform only retracted when found a new use for the armed thugs
20:28 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Still a lot of blame for this goes to the fuckers who made AR-style pistols. Some feasibe civilian arms in the US are simply not made due to the legal/regulatory cascade which would follow. (ex. 'smart' guns)
20:29 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: iirc 'smart' in the sense of electrical detonation is explicitly forbidden
20:29 asciilifeform on account of being a software patch away from full auto
20:30 asciilifeform and this apparently is a great irritant to many marksmanship types who would much like electrical striker for a few percent decrease in mechanical jitter
20:30 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: That, but also 'smart' in the sense of authenticates user is defacto forbiden because of New Jersey law.
20:30 asciilifeform the one that makes it mandatory if ever becomes available on the market ?
20:30 BingoBoingo That one indeed
20:32 asciilifeform still not sure how anything the size of a 1990s laptop can be called a 'pistol' with a straight face
20:33 asciilifeform (in usa - anything that has only one hilt it being roughly 90 degree to the barrel, iirc, is legally 'pistol')
20:33 BingoBoingo ^
20:34 asciilifeform ianal, but phun phact (tm):
20:34 asciilifeform my understanding is that in usa, war machines that do not use pyrotechnic effects are not considered 'arms' and are not regulated at the national level
↖
20:35 asciilifeform e.g., arbalest, laser, electron beam weapon, etc.
20:35 asciilifeform there are prohibitions on nukes (lol), poisons, and biowar - but that's, iirc, it.
20:36 asciilifeform not that appropriate text couldn't be crapped into the penal code overnight if lizardhitler wished it, mind you
20:36 asciilifeform but still entertaining, this omission.
20:36 BingoBoingo There's state level prohibitions on top of things. In any number civilian taser/stun gun ownership is banned
20:37 asciilifeform too 'humane' ?
20:37 * jurov once had some stray thoughts about nanotubes-reinforced arbalest
20:37 trinque asciilifeform: fascinating; all I can find re: lasers is labling requirements, etc
20:37 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: So it seems
20:37 asciilifeform trinque: i have a 'class 4' laser right in this room
20:37 BingoBoingo trinque: With sufficiently good batteries laser, magnetic rail, and other exotica might finally be banned.
20:38 asciilifeform trinque: if it were 10,000 times larger, would still be 'class 4'.
20:39 BingoBoingo At the moment I imagine there is no explict ban because USG wants to see what Boeing might buy for them off of a sufficiently advanced crackpot while it is still safe to assume such things are minimally portable.
20:39 trinque BingoBoingo: eh probably just hasn't been a problem yet
20:40 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: usg-sponsored ($maxint) laser shenanigans traditionally involve chemical (that is, single-shot) machines
20:40 trinque there's something there too about being able to outwit the regulators by virtue of them not having the imagination to conceive the necessary ban
↖
20:40 asciilifeform loaded like cannon
20:41 asciilifeform trinque: it isn't like one could cut through a phalanx of usg stormtroopers and stay legally in the clear simply because the machine is not banned per se
20:41 trinque though I think that tends over time towards ever vaguer "regulations" which amount to "we can stop you for doing anything we deem 'dangerous'"
20:41 trinque asciilifeform: heh! no, certainly not
20:41 asciilifeform usg could and did put down rebellion even in the era when arbitrary hardware was permitted to whoever could afford it
20:41 davout http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048068 <<< absolutely, it's also loads of fun
20:41 assbot Logged on 11-03-2015 00:40:05; trinque: there's something there too about being able to outwit the regulators by virtue of them not having the imagination to conceive the necessary ban
20:42 jurov carbon nanotubes can provide 10 times greater force than steel... that would make for quite an arbalest :>
↖
20:42 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Sure, but if sufficiently crazy/monied/intelligent crackpot produces solid state laser pistol with more than anti vehicle firings per charge that isn't too portable they would likely consider it a purchase
20:42 jurov don't see how'd ban that
20:42 jurov laz0rs can be bannet more easily than that
20:42 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: good physical reasons why you would not want to be standing even behind such a thing, much less holding it, when fired
20:42 jurov *banned
20:43 asciilifeform what will almost certainly be usg-banned quite soon - and banned the way chemistry as a class was, rather than as specific types of small arm were - is flying machines
20:43 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Of course, but maybe it might make sense USG-ified on a boat
20:44 asciilifeform eventually a 'multicopter' (perhaps usg provocateur-piloted) will be used in some loud, public vandalism (graffiti of $landmark or wtf) and it'll be 'reichstag fire'
20:46 BingoBoingo Ah, you mean like that time Uhaul rented a truck from their yellow competitor to sully that brand
20:46 asciilifeform ?
20:47 BingoBoingo The oklahoma scam
20:47 asciilifeform aha lol
20:48 BingoBoingo At one point in Civ II I edited the files to add the yellow truck as a unit type
20:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25476 @ 0.00032741 = 8.3411 BTC [+] {2}
20:49 asciilifeform incidentally, to continue an earlier thread with mircea_popescu et al re: 'jungle bullet' - has anyone ever attempted to militarize the old familiar 'hydrogen cannon' ?
20:50 asciilifeform where the propellant is H and O produced via electrolysis for each shot
20:51 asciilifeform (and ignited, of course, via electrical spark)
20:51 BingoBoingo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:45mm_CLGG_figure_1.jpg ???
20:51 assbot File:45mm CLGG figure 1.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1C5lt0g )
20:51 asciilifeform not quite
20:52 asciilifeform 'light gas gun' is its own animal, where a gas where speed of sound is faster than in air is used as a 'piston'
20:52 BingoBoingo Ah
20:52 asciilifeform typically used in experimental physics, rather than war, because it is rather fussy
20:52 asciilifeform hmm seems like linked item does use for propellant as well..
20:53 BingoBoingo It does, just combusted
20:53 BingoBoingo next step from that is "scram cannon"
20:54 asciilifeform at any rate this is a golden toilet
20:54 asciilifeform but there is no particular reason why the principle cannot be applied to a man-portable small arm
20:56 BingoBoingo tooling in the big challenge it seems. requires a finer grit than bastard file offers
20:56 asciilifeform why?
20:56 asciilifeform fundamentally less precision metalwork needed here
20:57 asciilifeform and with correctly-shaped projectile, smooth barrel would suffice
20:57 asciilifeform potentially bullet itself could even be molded during the process of firing
20:58 asciilifeform (explosion-forming of vaguely correct quantity of $material)
20:58 BingoBoingo These still require something of a piston system though?
20:58 asciilifeform the gas is the piston
20:58 BingoBoingo Interesting
20:59 jurov get a pipe, seal one one side but connect it to electrolyzer, jam bullet into other side,
20:59 asciilifeform jurov: that's the basic idea, yes
21:00 jurov geerate gases, fire...oh need spark plug, too
21:00 BingoBoingo AH, space musket
21:00 asciilifeform need to have some notion of stoichiometry and strength of materials to avoid creating self-grenade instead of musket
21:01 asciilifeform but again this is an ancient idea, not mine.
21:01 asciilifeform it is interesting to remember that, at a certain velocity, it no longer really matters what a bullet is made of
21:01 asciilifeform one could literally pierce a tank with a compressed turd
21:02 asciilifeform -if- it could be made to travel fast enough.
21:02 asciilifeform (think about micrometeorites, etc. and occasionally there is a cosmic ray travelling with the energy of a well-thrown baseball.)
21:03 BingoBoingo But a better throw baseball isn't always a faster baseball.
21:04 BingoBoingo (baseballs have effective target zone too)
21:04 jurov lol.. someday maybe we learn how to generate cosmic rays with scotch tape
21:05 BingoBoingo lol
21:11 BingoBoingo further lol https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=b0bc65729070b9cbdbb53ff042984a3c545a0e34
↖
21:11 assbot kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git - Linux kernel source tree ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeBCub )
21:13 cazalla for any baldur's gate lovers.. pillars of eternity out in a few weeks, looks interesting http://youtu.be/roK1wzOLT-k?t=15m16s
21:13 assbot Pillars of Eternity Gameplay 03/07/15 Pax East - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeBN8M )
21:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21637 @ 0.0003348 = 7.2441 BTC [+]
21:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20402 @ 0.00033535 = 6.8418 BTC [+] {2}
21:29 asciilifeform 'If however, anyone feels personally abused, threatened, or otherwise uncomfortable due to this process, that is not acceptable. If so, please contact the Linux Foundation's Technical Advisory Board at...' << linus begins to totter ?!!?
21:29 asciilifeform obligatory >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998178 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998185
21:29 assbot Logged on 30-01-2015 05:49:56; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if you were planning to kill someone, would you helpfully tell him first ? << that's not the point. in a normal society, the threat is a fundamental tool to hierarchy building.
21:29 assbot Logged on 30-01-2015 05:51:36; mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.
21:30 BingoBoingo It might be the case linus wavers
21:30 BingoBoingo Related lols http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/03/10/2149256/on-firing-open-source-community-members
21:30 assbot On Firing Open Source Community Members - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeDnrl )
21:36 asciilifeform http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/03/chaos-practice-and-applications.html << mega-l0l
21:36 assbot ClubOrlov: Chaos: Practice and Applications ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeDWBe )
21:37 asciilifeform ^ worth reading mainly for the slipping car anecdote
21:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.0003333 = 8.4325 BTC [-] {2}
21:53 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047818 << actually this is a remarkably good piece on the textual merits.
21:53 assbot Logged on 10-03-2015 14:59:37; asciilifeform: http://www.railslove.com/stories/my-way-into-clojure-building-a-card-game-with-om-part-1#Other_Misgivings << mega-l0l (from server logs)
21:54 mircea_popescu jurov kukuruku is a great name. used to be this shitty wafer when i was a kid, most ridiculous advertisements.
21:55 asciilifeform кукареку
21:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i still fucking hate that piece. the sheer mendacity of rich hickey in saying 'simplicity matters' while crapping all over lisp concept
↖
21:57 asciilifeform fucker knows what he's doing. not ignorant.
21:58 asciilifeform see also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-3383 .
21:58 assbot Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1Do4lkZ )
21:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but formally, as far as writing is concerned, as far as the art of blogging is concerned, it's a good piece.
21:58 mircea_popescu i can't be arsed to wade into the merits.
21:59 asciilifeform i suppose it is 'good' in the sense in which the products of herr goebbels were.
21:59 mircea_popescu right.
22:00 mircea_popescu which they definitely were. the russians copied liberally but never equalled
22:00 asciilifeform whole world copied.
22:00 mircea_popescu that's more recent
22:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16572 @ 0.0003429 = 5.6825 BTC [+] {2}
22:01 BingoBoingo I mean the Germans did win the propaganda war.
22:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55200 @ 0.00032968 = 18.1983 BTC [-] {2}
22:03 mircea_popescu ;;later tell gavinandresen http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047857 << check it out, the shithead lies about imaginary consensus in december, then "is working" on building the consensus he lied about having, in march. get lost, fucksticks. your gig is up.
↖
22:03 assbot Logged on 10-03-2015 18:05:42; thestringpuller: "I’m actually, right now, working on just getting consensus among the five, what I call, core developers — the five developers who have push access to the git code. I think I’m getting close to convincing them that we have a plan that will work. I’m probably going to have to write some more code . . . I think we have a year to eighteen months. I would love the next release of bitcoin — the
22:03 gribble The operation succeeded.
22:04 mircea_popescu "i'm going to pretend like if i find five people that can be bribed, scared or fooled then that's all that was needed to begin with. just, the usg is so ridiculous, toothless and impotent I CANT EVEN SAY WHO THE FUCK THE FIVE WILL BE. hopefully we even find five idiots, or else... whatever, three's enough. one's me, one's me dressed as satoshi, one's me in my wife's panties. win!"
22:05 BingoBoingo !b 1
22:05 assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3VFJHE9.txt )
22:05 mod6 lol
22:05 asciilifeform usg assets don't surrender, they keep doing their thing until the stool is kicked and the rope goes taught. or how did it go.
22:05 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047858 << that part was inevitable. what was evitable, and usually is avoided, but couldn't be and consequently wasn't here is - the whole thing critically failing and in the process exposing them, their methods and the whole farm to public ridicule.
22:05 assbot Logged on 10-03-2015 18:08:18; ascii_field: the turdmeisters replacing the genuine blockchain download process with an 'equivalent' one that 'omg111itfinallyscales!!11' - was inevitable
22:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the expression is, lolcow.
22:06 mircea_popescu an internet retard who simply can not stop providing the lolz.
22:06 mircea_popescu so people just milk it and milk it and milk it.
22:06 asciilifeform but they did replace it (with the headers-only crap) and even a buncha morons are running the thing
22:07 mircea_popescu a buncha morons are running ripple, what's your point ?
22:07 mircea_popescu a buncha morons actually believe the song and dance about "ethereum investment"
22:07 mircea_popescu a buncha morons were all over "neo bee revolution" last spring.
22:07 mircea_popescu now if only morons mattered.
22:07 asciilifeform point isn't that gavin&co are 'winning', but that the absence of said winning is not driven home to them
22:07 mircea_popescu yeah, right.
22:08 mircea_popescu which is why he's "building consensus", and which is why he's carefully waiting for my lunch breaks. because it's not driven home.
22:08 asciilifeform they're still alive, well-fed, and polluting the sky
22:08 mircea_popescu it's home alright. he sleeps with it in bed.
22:08 mircea_popescu everyone's well fed, including the bums.
22:08 mircea_popescu notacriteria.jpg
22:09 mircea_popescu now if ben_vulpes an' mod6 get this show off the ground, it'll be reheheheally fascinating in short order.
22:09 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047863 << the only one that solved the problem the usg backed "teams" are "working towards" i would presume without reading.
22:09 assbot Logged on 10-03-2015 18:13:45; ascii_field: http://insidebitcoins.com/news/multiple-teams-creating-bitcoin-based-prediction-markets/30429 << notice what site is missing from this article
22:10 mircea_popescu it's ok, they've been doing this for years nao.
22:10 asciilifeform 'parallel world where none of it happened' (tm)
22:10 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2015#1047869 << no one knows kakobrekla s dry wit like i do hehehe
22:10 assbot Logged on 10-03-2015 18:16:24; kakobrekla: ascii_field not missing, 'betmoose' is right there, in the first comment.
22:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30423 @ 0.00032353 = 9.8428 BTC [-]
22:12 mircea_popescu anyway. so teh usg-vc-turdatron is "building prediction markets" and usgavin is "building consensus" among the "core developers" of a meanwhile obsoleted branch of bitcoin core.
22:12 mircea_popescu welcome to late 2012 early 2013, i imagine a btc/usd run-up is coming ?
22:13 asciilifeform we still need a goxoinbase ehem.
22:13 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
22:13 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 291.28, vol: 12500.04342666 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 288.504, vol: 15536.49063 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 293.98, vol: 65572.1613873 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 292.227045, vol: 223377.47330000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 289.0, vol: 29.73914519 | Volume-weighted last average: 292.369523406
22:14 BingoBoingo ^ mircea_popescu Looks likely
22:14 mircea_popescu heh.
22:15 BingoBoingo most stagnant low in years + recent large scam deaths === bull run impending
22:15 asciilifeform '2015-03-10 20:02:29One or More Panels Have Entered Into a Pick And Place Machine'
22:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23566 @ 0.00031952 = 7.5298 BTC [-]
22:15 mircea_popescu the 200ish wallow is reminiscent (to me) of the $2 wallow
22:15 mircea_popescu was a great fun time.
22:16 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048025 << wait wut ?!
22:16 assbot Logged on 11-03-2015 00:12:42; cazalla: TIL danielpbarron is mircea_popescu
22:16 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048036 << don't go there. marihuana is coming legal.
22:16 assbot Logged on 11-03-2015 00:25:57; asciilifeform: when has usg legalized anything formerly forbidden ?
22:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they'd have to backpedal on 50 yrs. of forced treaties with most of the planet
22:17 asciilifeform for full-bore legal
22:17 mircea_popescu it's now going into senate. most states are going off the ganja bust.
22:17 asciilifeform rather than idiot contradictory crap like the netherlands
22:18 asciilifeform (where use is legal but production & shipment is prosecuted)
22:18 mircea_popescu no current western state is capable of noncontradictory, meaningful legislation
22:18 asciilifeform wasn't speaking, note, of whether usians will smoke weed mostly without harassment (they already have for years) - but of whether fed usg specifically will let go of the bludgeon
22:19 mircea_popescu strictly because of their sovereignity problem
22:19 danielpbarron wait wut ?! << https://twitter.com/ofnumbers/status/575445435441000448
22:19 assbot /hashtag/bitcoin?src=hash core 0.10 was released feb 16 & is now 2nd largest "user agent" (node) on network. https://t.co/MUpvRFk2pP http://t.co/tUExE2e8gF
22:19 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> now if ben_vulpes an' mod6 get this show off the ground, it'll be reheheheally fascinating in short order. << just wrapping up the regression of the static binary: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ny9m6Q3R and after this, we just need to bundle up this thing and sign patches & tar ball. gettin close!
22:19 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeHR0U )
22:20 mircea_popescu mod6 sweet.
22:20 danielpbarron and because assbot and twitter don't get along: "@danielpbarron you are Mircea Popsecu. creator of #bitcoin-asssets, kicked of twitter for violating TOS due to threat on @aantonop"
22:20 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048052 << i knew a chick who kept arbalest.
22:20 assbot Logged on 11-03-2015 00:34:58; asciilifeform: my understanding is that in usa, war machines that do not use pyrotechnic effects are not considered 'arms' and are not regulated at the national level
22:20 mircea_popescu nasty thing, too. could definitely cut down a small amr.y
22:21 mircea_popescu danielpbarron lol mircea popsicle.
22:21 mircea_popescu anyway, kakobrekla created bitcoin-assets.
22:21 asciilifeform laugh or not, bolt will go straight through 'kevlar', 'spektra', etc. anything without solid plates.
22:21 mircea_popescu yup.
22:22 mircea_popescu not fast enough for rayon to do anything. powerfdul enough to cut through leather, wood etc
22:22 asciilifeform cuts the fibers individually (they are designed to contain blunt impact, just as silk - the first ballistic vest material - did)
22:22 asciilifeform archduke ferdinand, famously, wore one ^
22:22 asciilifeform silk vest, that is
22:22 asciilifeform not arbalest
22:22 BingoBoingo Ah, cazalla's pice looms just under the threshold for srs reddit xposture https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ylqkl/alleged_usms_auction_winner_leaves_eldritch/
22:22 assbot Alleged USMS Auction Winner Leaves Eldritch Message : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeI848 )
22:23 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: As did Doc Holliday and other Western gunfighters who lived more than a few weeks into their careers
22:24 mircea_popescu i thought holliday just had tb.
22:24 mircea_popescu he also had sv ?!
22:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54000 @ 0.00031846 = 17.1968 BTC [-] {2}
22:24 BingoBoingo I could have sworn he had one
22:25 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048076 << fwik it's the crankers strength that limits it, not the materials.
22:25 assbot Logged on 11-03-2015 00:42:04; jurov: carbon nanotubes can provide 10 times greater force than steel... that would make for quite an arbalest :>
22:25 BingoBoingo holliday had tb, twas what sent him to the dry west
22:25 mircea_popescu bows are closer, but even there...
22:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: materials. strength can be levered (literally) by gearing
22:26 asciilifeform but speed of bolt will not exceed speed of sound in the spring
22:26 asciilifeform thinkaboutit
22:26 mircea_popescu but levering by gearing slows down the operation.
22:26 asciilifeform sure.
22:26 mircea_popescu well it's a problem.
22:26 asciilifeform still generally faster than musketry.
22:26 mircea_popescu IF you don't leverage the strength to the point where it isn't :L)
22:26 BingoBoingo Wind the gears mechanically
22:26 mircea_popescu that point is way below what steel can carry.
22:27 mircea_popescu bows are almost limited by materials, but not really, still mostly the archer. crossbows however, it's all the shooter.
22:27 asciilifeform at any rate, in the age of the arbalest the beryllium-copper spring did not exist. wood was the spring.
22:28 asciilifeform and was, iirc, pushed to more or less the limit
22:28 mircea_popescu nah, steel was still the spring./
22:29 mircea_popescu steel was used for the x part in the xbow before it was abundant enough to go into swords.
22:30 BingoBoingo Well, since the 1800's Krupp has done a lot to improve steel strengths and specializations...
22:30 asciilifeform http://margo.student.utwente.nl/sagi/artikel/steelbow/steel2.html
22:30 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeIOqc )
22:31 asciilifeform http://www.atarn.org/letters/ltr_dec04.htm << forensic archaeology, built, tested
22:31 assbot Letter: December 2004 ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeITdp )
22:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00034304 = 8.0614 BTC [+]
22:37 BingoBoingo I'll just throw out again that less-wrong's propaganda Harry Potter dicided to solve the Voldemort thing by decapitating everyone with carbon nanofiber tightened by magic.
22:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43950 @ 0.00034304 = 15.0766 BTC [+]
22:39 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048128 << i don't understand this open ended "we will work toi resolve your problems" approach.
22:39 assbot Logged on 11-03-2015 01:11:28; BingoBoingo: further lol https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=b0bc65729070b9cbdbb53ff042984a3c545a0e34
22:40 mircea_popescu the only thing it does is it encourages "problems" being dreamed up by people who otherwise aren't worth the time of day.
22:40 mircea_popescu if you don't know how to apply pressure, don't have an avenue to voice your concerns, that means that your concerns aren't worth shit. go die or whatever it is losers do.
22:40 BingoBoingo Maybe Linus's ace in the whole just might be counting "STFU" as a resolution, but my hope for that is dim
22:40 asciilifeform linus totters.
22:40 asciilifeform eventually - falls.
22:41 mircea_popescu everything fails eventually. guy's been doing it for what, 20 years ?
22:41 mircea_popescu i don't personally expect anything further from linux. in this sense, he's retired already.
22:41 asciilifeform 'single point of failure' and enemy knows it.
22:42 mircea_popescu single point of failure of a meanwhile obsolete position, but hey. enemy loves to pat himself on the back over having "Conquered" the strongpoints of yesteryear, meanwhile abandoned.
22:43 BingoBoingo thestringpuller: You want a press credential, yes?
22:43 BingoBoingo ;;google ULC press credential
22:43 gribble Press Pass & Parking Placard | Universal Life Church Monastery: <http://www.themonastery.org/catalog/presspassparkingplacard-p-193.html>; Wallet Sized Press Pass - Universal Life Church: <http://www.themonastery.org/catalog/walletsizedpresspass-p-277.html>; Legal ID & Badges - Universal Life Church Store: <http://www.themonastery.org/catalog/-c-38.html>
22:43 BingoBoingo It's what I use
22:43 thestringpuller I iz /w da dly qnt
22:44 mircea_popescu lol get a hat.
22:45 mircea_popescu oh, in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/b126231cb86d89ecba1190317bd07302/tumblr_nirxk3XOsI1tcuxu9o1_500.jpg
22:45 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeJZ95 )
22:45 BingoBoingo I wonder if this is the late Andreas of the house of derp http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-16766
22:45 assbot Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeK5xw )
22:46 mircea_popescu lmao
22:51 asciilifeform point re: herr torvalds was, that a healthy culture doesn't consist of a corral of helpless pets and one wizard waving iron staff standing on a bridge doing the 'thou shall not pass' thing
22:51 cazalla <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-03-2015#1048025 << wait wut ?! <<< reference to some guy you might know and have written about before named tim swanson who thought danielpbarron was you, occurred on twitter
22:51 assbot Logged on 11-03-2015 00:12:42; cazalla: TIL danielpbarron is mircea_popescu
22:52 cazalla ah nevermind, in the logs..
22:54 danielpbarron stoya was here ?! << is this the stoya you were thinking of? -> https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/575129423097147392
22:54 assbot Do I know anyone who knows a bitcoin expert?
23:06 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: wtf is the point of the faux 'press' card ?
23:07 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: It's issued by a (actual) church publication. What n00b would deny it?
23:08 * asciilifeform at one point had an entirely genuine card from $censored_media_conglomerate and never found any good 'social engineering' use for it
23:09 * asciilifeform was not involved in broadcast chumpatronics in any way, even remotely, but ended up having paycheques issued by one such thing by sheer accident
23:09 BingoBoingo There's always opportunities
23:10 asciilifeform where, exactly, does one get in by virtue of having such a thing, that you would wish to go ?
23:11 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: In plaintext best to attribute things to the imagination. Various other credentials that legitimate religious organization offers work well for prisons, nursing homes, other institutions....
23:13 asciilifeform any idiot can print a card.
23:13 asciilifeform not wunderwaffen.
23:13 asciilifeform incidentally, dye-sub card printers are plentiful on 'ebay' and the like.
23:14 BingoBoingo Sure any idiot can print a card, but special is the third pary that will keep a record of having issued such a card and affording it officialdom.
23:15 asciilifeform creating such an 'organization' is basic spamatronics-101.
23:15 asciilifeform using the same 'church' as 100,000 other would-be spamatronicists - fail.
23:16 asciilifeform incidentally, if you want a mailing address inside an actual, historically-mapped church - it is trivial to arrange.
23:16 asciilifeform many such properties in u.s. cities are hard up for cash and will rent as much as half the premises to random folks
23:17 BingoBoingo Of course
23:17 asciilifeform i was briefly a member of a kind of electronics club that met in a huge old church
23:17 asciilifeform complete with massive circa-1920s boilers that didn't work
23:19 BingoBoingo In USia there is a golden middle of Churches, generally for resource use you want an installation which is part of a larger mainline organization which happens to be helmed by a person favorable to yourself.
23:20 asciilifeform caveat is that the ancient truce whereby usg would not openly fuck with a church - no longer really holds
23:20 BingoBoingo Anything too new or independent tends to attract investigations for any number of reasons.
23:24 BingoBoingo One good indicator though is people of the cloth who go for this sort of chumpatron are too be avoided http://www.ultimatebunker.com/wp-content/uploads/9000-sq-ft-underground-bunker.jpg
23:24 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1wX8yLO )
23:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27203 @ 0.00034153 = 9.2906 BTC [-] {2}
23:25 asciilifeform 'citadel' ?
23:25 asciilifeform or wtf is that honeypot
23:25 BingoBoingo Yeah
23:25 BingoBoingo The prefab end times bunker honeypot
23:26 asciilifeform lol re: footprint of 'grow room' garden pots
23:26 asciilifeform vs. bed count
23:26 asciilifeform one inevitably concludes that it grows only ganja for the occupants
23:26 BingoBoingo Although in that example with their allocation of floor space I like how they in a historically justified manner unspokenly conceed the "dental Room" to all manner of surgery
23:27 BingoBoingo lol
23:28 BingoBoingo 2/3rd the square footage adds shooting range and "quarantine" room http://www.ultimatebunker.com/wp-content/uploads/6000-sq-ft-underground-bunker.jpg
23:29 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AeNKeA )
23:30 mircea_popescu cazalla oh lol.
23:30 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: mega-idiocy
23:31 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: It really is.
23:31 mircea_popescu danielpbarron yes, actually!
23:31 mircea_popescu !s stoya
23:31 assbot 32 results for 'stoya' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=stoya
23:31 mircea_popescu hey, tell her i'm a fan, see if she'll do http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/
23:31 assbot I'll pay for your tits pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnVtLn )
23:31 mircea_popescu she can have dbl bitcents because she's famous.
23:33 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Especially lulzy since the already built nike garages go for ~$75k where one would need only hang drywall
23:33 mircea_popescu danielpbarron and actually, since im in a great mood : you get 100 bucks worth of bitcoin bet on any bitbet of your choice, lemme know what you want.
↖
23:34 mircea_popescu dude got some pretty slick moves with da ladies i'll tell you that.
23:34 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i have no idea who the chumpatronicists in question are, or what they charge, but the drawings show that none of it has any relation to physical reality
23:35 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: You've watch computer engineering long enough to know reality doesn't sell. Charging+Input port sells. Reflective screens sell. Actual reality doesn't sell.
23:36 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: there's ordinary chumpatronics, where someone at least showed a bit of effort, and there's utter rubbish that falls apart after thinking about it for ten seconds if you've half a clue
23:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49043 @ 0.00034462 = 16.9012 BTC [+] {3}
23:38 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I've actually though that kindest thing to do for customers in this market would be standard grain silo pointing down (jsut like missile silo) full of rye. At least can trip balls or have mash to distil before doom
23:39 asciilifeform the funny thing is, that the cost of a reasonable death bunker is nearly equal to the cost of escape.
23:39 BingoBoingo Then again the last really big LSD production bust in the US if I recall correctly was an Atlas-F silo used pretty much this way
23:39 asciilifeform (taken as an approximate thing)
23:39 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> the funny thing is, that the cost of a reasonable death bunker is nearly equal to the cost of escape. << Yeah, seems at least as much as cost of escape.
23:40 BingoBoingo !up Vexual
23:40 asciilifeform BingoBoingo speaking of which, have passport yet ?
23:40 Vexual ive got a nice new inkjet
23:40 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I'm still on the wade through mud plan.
23:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20633 @ 0.00032916 = 6.7916 BTC [-]
23:41 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: if you start now, could make it to next year's.
23:42 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: If I did foot the whole way still ~3-4 months late, not counting the antihills of the Darien
23:42 asciilifeform sail might be faster.
23:44 BingoBoingo It would, but requires sinking more costs on expendables. Considering indirect air travel.
23:44 Vexual arent u on a river?
23:44 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> the funny thing is, that the cost of a reasonable death bunker is nearly equal to the cost of escape. << if you think about it, this is necessarily so.
23:46 asciilifeform necessarily?
23:46 BingoBoingo Vexual: A river is near. One navigable by small craft... Maybe...
23:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58550 @ 0.00031464 = 18.4222 BTC [-] {3}
23:47 mircea_popescu well yes. prices are not unlike communicating vessels.
23:47 mircea_popescu substantially the same thing wil lcost substyantially the same in a free market. and this is one.
23:47 asciilifeform i get that it's a price signal
23:48 asciilifeform but sorta failing to grasp precisely which.
23:48 asciilifeform death bunker is not substantially the same thing as escape
23:48 asciilifeform except in the 'fuck you i'm a dragon' (tm) sense, i suppose
23:49 mircea_popescu right.
23:49 mircea_popescu "solution to problem X"
23:49 BingoBoingo Does anything else matter?
23:49 BingoBoingo !b 5
23:49 assbot Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/27SK2XV.txt )
23:52 * asciilifeform invites aficionados of the subject to study what bunkers that were built by folks who weren't strangers to arithmetic looked like, what was inside, how long expected to function, under what kind of pushback, etc.
23:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26350 @ 0.00030937 = 8.1519 BTC [-] {3}
23:53 asciilifeform my mind is still reeling that anyone, anywhere, might have swallowed the '3000 sq. ft for two dozen people', 'grow room' the size of bedroom, idiot hollywood 'motorcycle garage' and 'gun vault', etc.
↖
23:54 asciilifeform instead of taking twenty seconds to find well-documented fortifications built in recent history, as many photos, drawings as could ever wish
23:54 * BingoBoingo imagines better layout than popular belief one is modest wood frame farmhouse with "bunker" portion used as underground farm/garage
23:55 asciilifeform the concept of clandestine 'farm' with electric lights is a sufficiently familiar one that folks ought to be able to take a napkin calculation and say
23:55 asciilifeform what kind of energy is required, for how much biomass
23:55 asciilifeform and how much, e.g., diesel this translates into
23:56 asciilifeform and what the mtbf of your turbine is
23:56 asciilifeform and how much exhaust
23:56 BingoBoingo Granted this is all easier if you conceed to having an RTG or twenty somewhere on the property.
23:57 asciilifeform a large rtg is about 1kW.
23:57 asciilifeform sell the Pu, buy a cuba.
23:57 asciilifeform from just one.
23:58 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Most of Iowa is set upon a radio material goldmine, atm it is ust more economical to get food from the topsoil
23:59 Vexual if you're digging deep, why not go to the hot rocks and steam power?
23:59 Vexual then you can recycle water
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