#trilema | 2015-01-10

aka "got a favourite cryppie ?"

00:07

colin percival, moxie

00:08

TomServo

kakobrekla | i just find the whole fetch command thing silly. << If it was named scoopdog that'd be one thing...

00:09

mats aha

00:09

noted

00:13

DJB, too

00:14

put links if you have em

00:16

http://cr.yp.to/contact.html DJB contact

00:16

... ( http://bit.ly/14D0kev )

00:18

http://www.tarsnap.com/contact.html cpercival http://www.thoughtcrime.org moxie with gpg key

00:18

Tarsnap - Contact ... ( http://bit.ly/14D0FxK )

00:18

Moxie Marlinspike >> About ... ( http://bit.ly/14D0DGa )

00:19

nice

00:21

hm i wonder if he ever pops on irc, his co has a small channel

00:22

experience over the past few years shows that answer is generally yes

00:26

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/snowden-us-has-put-too-much-emphasis-on-cyber-offense-needs-defense

00:26

Snowden: US has put too much emphasis on cyber-offense, needs defense | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/14D22wt )

00:27

he's consulting now ?!

00:31

'defense' is kinda misleading imo

00:32

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00065591 = 5.2801 BTC [-] {2}

00:33

"fix the damned software" "nu-uh, we'd rather look for bugs in the chinese's" "they're using the same shit, you know"

00:33

...suggesting that computers as they are can be proportionally defended, rather than a contest of risk management and attack surface

00:33

mats if i defend my windows, i look for holes. if i attack your windows, i... look for holes ?

00:33

wtf is the difference.

00:34

obviously, on a strategic plane the difference would be "stop making broken by design software ; behead all the shitgnomes ; adopt bitcoin as us currency" etc.

00:34

but that's a way waiting.

00:41

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00111.html f/oss has best community

00:41

Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/14D4FhK )

00:42

obviously i read "floss"

00:42

as intended!

00:44

i don't get it. so, stallman-gcc, is at odds with stallman-emacs and they don';t wanna talk inside his head because cacti ?

00:45

ive read it several times and concluded a) i dont get it and b) f/oss is embarassing and dumb

00:46

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00205.html

00:46

Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1yNAYrs )

00:46

apparently there's some debate about ast output in gcc.

00:49

anyway, the gcc-emacs merger seems slowly but surely emergent

00:51

mebbe they could call it gccemacsd

00:51

id like to see gcc contribs move over to llvm, if for no other reason than to motivate both parties

00:52

i have not looked at the matter in at least 3 years. does llvm still own gcc much to everyone's chagrin and denial ?

00:52

it never did, afaik

00:52

on any parameter i know of

00:53

but apple, etc. love it on account of no gpl

00:54

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=llvm_clang35_avx2&num=1

00:54

[Phoronix] GCC 5.0 Outruns LLVM 3.5 Compiler By A Bit On Core-AVX2 ... ( http://bit.ly/14D6OKl )

00:54

im still there

00:55

llvm compiles faster, sucks at encryption (lol) and by degrees at everything else.

00:55

sounds like the true c compiler!

00:56

iirc rms is concerned about something quite valid - gcc has excellent front-end and ast-level optimizations, while at the same time, a middling-to-poor set of back-ends (depending on cpu arch)

00:56

take half and run, yes

00:56

back-end optimizations, that is

00:57

aha. plenty of folks want to take, take, run.

00:57

http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06685.html

00:57

[Bitcoin-development] OpenSSL 1.0.0p / 1.0.1k incompatible,causes blockchain rejection. ... ( http://bit.ly/14D7qiW )

00:57

aww

00:57

https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html RMS pisses on llvm

00:57

... ( http://bit.ly/14D7r6v )

00:58

BingoBoingo let me dig up my own words from the damned logs

00:58

Everyone knows you have them.

00:58

!up Vexual

01:00

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-01-2015#969805

01:00

Logged on 08-01-2015 08:24:54; mircea_popescu: he's prolly aiming for putting it in by february, but won't actually have the tech resources to do it and rather than risk a total humiliatory blowout delay it to march

01:01

already cracking at teh seams.

01:01

day later.

01:02

'wunderwaffen' answered.

01:02

-- 'soft' fork on some other minor point, boil frog more slowly.

01:03

not good enough.

01:04

http://massprivatei.blogspot.ca/2015/01/mass-law-enforcement-agenices-claim.html

01:04

MassPrivateI: Mass. law enforcement agencies claim they're corporations and they're exempt from FOIA requests ... ( http://bit.ly/14D8PX1 )

01:04

"While I have often cautioned people before to avoid using libsecp256k1

01:04

for verification on the grounds that consensus trumps correctness, the

01:04

above incompatibility does strongly suggest that OpenSSL may not itself

01:04

have very good consensus-critical design. Along with Maxwell and

01:04

Wuille's recent findings¹ CVE-2014-3570 - strong evidence of the

01:04

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11333928/Bank-of-America-warns-of-lethal-damage-to-Chinas-financial-system-as-deflation-deepens.html

01:04

Bank of America warns of 'lethal' damage to China's financial system as deflation deepens - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/14D8OSM )

01:04

excellent testing the library has undergone - I personally am now of the

01:04

opinion that migrating Bitcoin Core to libsecp256k1 in the near future

01:04

is a good idea on the grounds that it provides us with a well-written,

01:04

mats: old news i think

01:04

and well-understood library designed with consensus in mind that'll

01:04

probably give us fewer consensus problems than our existing OpenSSL

01:05

dependency. It'll also help advanced protocol implementations by giving

01:05

them a clear dependency to use when they need consensus-critical

01:05

signature evaluation."

01:05

unless there's some sort of major backdoor in wuille's ecdsa implementation...

01:05

anyway, ima get on teh comparison requests tomorrow. if anyone has more names to suggest as per above...

01:06

mats: see also:

01:06

!s gendarmerie

01:06

7 results for 'gendarmerie' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gendarmerie

01:07

mircea_popescu: aha, doing the 'nix openssl' thing from therealbitcoin idea list ?

01:08

asciilifeform seems so.

01:08

asciilifeform: ive only seen this specific issue get airtime in the last few months

01:08

not that THAT is a bad move in any sense, of course. but timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.

01:08

but yes, i agree with the premise re: gendarmerie

01:09

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/0/9/8/359098_v1.jpg

01:09

... ( http://bit.ly/14D9F5P )

01:09

i expect to be a minority of one on this, but i'd much rather see it done by one of the folks here, than by a great sage who may or may not have been suborned (or shall be as soon as enemy gets wind of intention)

01:09

unless you'd like to hire them in pairs.

01:09

Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 28(Y):72(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,593.

01:09

the asking is public, let teh enemy pluck its hairs.

01:10

BingoBoingo: chimps are terrifying.

01:10

mats: Of course

01:13

has anyone considered how preposterous the entire notion is, of bitcoin depending in the least bit on crud in external libs that can change on a whim ?

01:14

you mean, has anyone considered how idiotic "update now" is ?

01:15

yes, actuyally, they have. here even, publicly and explicitly.

01:15

ah yes, more or less that.

01:15

but it's especially ludicrous for safety-critical proggy

01:15

and astonishing how long folks have been putting up with it.

01:16

not astonishing in the slightest.

01:17

first, there was one man, who couldn't code, doing idiotic things like windows and qt.

01:17

then there was a group of youthful men doing what seemed clumsy but well meaning stuff

01:17

then they were cast out and a bitcoin foundation constructed.

01:17

seems very reasonable really. how short would you have put up with it ?

01:18

*

asciilifeform recalls now the discussion of 'what do the mega-miners run, and why should they ever wish to tell us'

01:18

side note : i read someone (maybe joel on soft ?) in a wonderful piece "why i never upgrade" and i've never been able to find it again. ne1 know it ?

01:25

mats: gcc... a) i dont get it... << what's the hard concept here? rms wishes to avoid gcc turning into a sweet and defenceless piece of candy for the 'embrace & extend/extinguish' folks.

01:25

asciilifeform he's characteristically weak in the rhetorics involved.

01:26

i very much doubt half his closest collaborators grok what he means on the strenght of his text. you yourself, i suspect, followed the logic of the situaiton not the logic of his words.

01:26

situation aha

01:26

'the spartan - speaks with his sword.'

01:26

well yeah, so, i don't understand wtf he's saying either.

01:26

weak rhetoric, but he wields the zapper.

01:27

i do understand what he should be saying. but...

01:27

through the sword i listen to wtf he is actually saying.

01:27

reportedly, rms keeps a harem. perhaps it understands his words.

01:28

i never heard that report.

01:28

i heard of parrots and a fear of bathing and cactus

01:29

*

asciilifeform cannot swear to it, mainly informed thirdhand re: a variety of rms women.

01:29

cactus ?

01:31

myeah

01:32

*

asciilifeform does not know what to believe, but did at one point meet an actual live woman who spoke at length of writing to rms and wishing to make close acquaintance - no luck

01:33

this proves harem in the sense person offering large stores of grain to dissinterested cad thereby proves cat's a farmer.

01:33

lol

01:34

re: rms and his oddities, i'd note that quite a few (most?) folks would end up regarded as similarly odd, if they somehow were set free to do wtf they pleased

01:34

Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2PCNQ24.txt )

01:34

!b 2

01:34

in my limited experience with harems and the people keeping them, you can more or less get a trial run. especially as a young, entused woman.

01:34

Damn, missed

01:34

asciilifeform specifically, gaddafi was regarded as similarly odd,

01:34

especially as he become politically inconvenient

01:34

and in direct relation to that.

01:34

aha.

01:35

re: mr g:

01:35

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573142 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573144 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573145 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573146

01:35

Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his very existence is

01:35

Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: a videoclip of a fairy tale coming true... ...they [americans] also wish to drive around in jeeps, accompanied by squadrons of hotties in berets with kalashnikovs - but are impotent from birth. Envy, taken with an understanding of one's own powerless... easily transforms into hatred. The leaders of the sanitarium are easier for the 'patient' to understand, closer. He sees their permissible pecadillos,

01:35

Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: eased with their mediocrity. 'But this fellow from the desert!' (Interestingly, that among the hundreds of tyrants, in uniform and without, depending on the united states or the european sanitaria, none provoke a fraction of the wrath caused by Kaddafi. Evidently, the cause is his independence.) Kaddafi - is an extraordinary living proof of the fact that the fairy-tale version of life remains possible

01:35

Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:41; asciilifeform: t only outside of the sanitaria.'

01:35

(limonov)

01:35

http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com.ar/2009/07/emailing-richard-stallman.html << some of the lulzier (because vintage) drama.

01:35

Open Source to Go!: Emailing Richard Stallman ... ( http://bit.ly/14Dek7P )

01:36

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00066802 = 4.5091 BTC [+]

01:38

tl;dr : gnome twerp is "Id strongly encourage you to refrain from such comments in the future.", because that's how the world works nao.

01:39

pour la gnome-aille, il faut la mitraille.

01:39

or sumthinglikethat

01:40

"315 comments", you understand.

01:41

still, they're funny. guy derps about how "concerns echoed again and again are ignored!!11" and is amazed. then people echo again and again the concern that "wtf loosen up" and "why are you publishing some guy's emails ?" which he... amazingly... ignores. why ?

01:41

AMAZING COMPANY!

01:41

"because he wqon't read me! and there's no other way to vent my little penis!"

01:41

it's so great to live in this day and age.

01:42

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15798 @ 0.00064422 = 10.1774 BTC [-] {2}

01:42

sometimes i shudder at the thought at how comparatively harder and humoruless-er my life would have been, had i chanced to live among sane people.

01:43

mircea_popescu could have ended up writing monte carlo sims for implosion tampers on gigantic trinary computer. in refal.

01:44

but this is a lot more fun.

01:44

Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0QF6332.txt )

01:44

!b 2

01:51

!s graham allison

01:51

2 results for 'graham allison' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=graham+allison

01:55

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-07-2014#751856 << i missed this. is he unreliable?

01:55

Logged on 10-07-2014 16:05:38; asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: only worth reading if there's a source other than alexander lebed circa 1997.

01:57

http://www.thebaffler.com/articles/the-meme-hustler

01:57

The Meme Hustler - The Baffler ... ( http://bit.ly/14DhNn7 )

01:57

"The enduring emptiness of our technology debates has one main cause, and his name is Tim OReilly."

01:57

whodda thunk making a shitton of "x for idiots" books will result in a large bleating herd of idiots!

01:58

NOBODY COULD HAVE FORESEEN

02:05

(ethymology also interesting : stallman's favourite pressman - evgeny morozov - running down o'reilly because he's not left enough!!)

02:06

meanwhile, the relative failure of foss is strictly due to the incongruous and often misshapen radical leftist ideas of stallman. had that thing been "the same old gospel of individualism, small government, and market fundamentalism that we associate with Randian characters" it'd not be struggling covered under a pile of open source.

02:07

http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/138/the-nature-and-history-of-equity.aspx

02:07

The nature and history of equity ... ( http://bit.ly/1xO6Fz8 )

02:10

whoops ... wrong one. i'm reading about the Earl of Oxford's case

02:11

http://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/188688/early-intervention.pdf

02:11

... ( http://bit.ly/14Dk4yD )

02:11

which one is that ?

02:16

> concerned land in London which Henry VIII had gifted to Thomas, Lord Audley, as a reward ... By his will, Audley left the land to Magdalene College, Cambridge, but the college subsequently sold the land and some of it was acquired, indirectly, by the Earl of Oxford. Magdalene College challenged Oxford's title on the basis of a statute which prohibited the

02:16

disposition of College lands ... as part of the original sale, Magdalene College had made an intermediate transfer to Queen Elizabeth with the deliberate intention of bypassing the statute.

02:17

heh

02:21

you know a simple summary of all the many ways english barristers tried to use the crown as a fixed point to unseat the lawe would be dazzling.

02:21

i pity the research assistant

02:21

one example : original legislation to defend the living against mortmain holdings required all wills vest

02:22

but how ? and they came to the idea to make it vest in a definite relation to a definitely existing thing

02:22

on the principle that nothing that is is forever, and so...

02:22

the reaction ? make wills reference the throne succession. so wills would be as good as the lifetime of the dynasty.

02:23

that had to be excised specifically, which is how the wills practice got to be so insanely complicated, the us practitioners pretty much gave up.

02:24

;;dict mortmain

02:24

wn: mortmain n 1: real property held inalienably (as by an ecclesiastical corporation) [syn: {mortmain}, {dead hand}] 2: the oppressive influence of past events or decisions [syn: {dead hand}, {dead hand of the past}, {mortmain}]

02:24

the dead are at the following advantage over the living : they don't feel any pressure to change their views.

02:25

this may become untenable.

02:31

to illustrate : suppose i am me, and i happen to believe that all females should spend a decade right after puberty nude at all times. i happen to be rich, and mindful of my beliefs. while i accept that i can't oder people around, i also expect them to respect my disposition of my own property. and so my will reads, that all my stuff is to be inherited by so and so successors, provided at all times all females pubescen

02:31

t for a decade or less on that property are nude.

02:31

my neighbour, a man of different notions but similar methods, orders all black haired people to always wear square hats.

02:31

a few century later, "circus" means a place where everything's quiet. because a simple walk down the street makes one's head spin.

02:42

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2013/02/right-to-google-a-lawyer/

02:42

One Phone Call is Not Enough: Court Rules You Have the Right to Google a Lawyer - Michael Geist ... ( http://bit.ly/1wFwT2I )

~ 1 hours 47 minutes ~

04:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14991 @ 0.00065972 = 9.8899 BTC [+]

04:38

New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/timeo-danaos-or-lets-enjoy-the-romanian-language-together/

~ 53 minutes ~

05:31

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00064355 = 7.8513 BTC [-]

~ 2 hours 51 minutes ~

08:23

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8249 @ 0.00064355 = 5.3086 BTC [-]

08:26

Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 23(Y):77(N) by coin, 23(Y):77(N) by weight. Total bet: 8.8399 BTC. Current weight: 98,810.

08:30

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00064351 = 8.8804 BTC [-] {2}

~ 2 hours 24 minutes ~

10:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17722 @ 0.00065926 = 11.6834 BTC [+] {2}

11:02

New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/day-job-research-of-2014/

~ 26 minutes ~

11:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00064343 = 11.7104 BTC [-]

11:30

xiando +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0

11:31

!up xiando

11:31

So I need a better WOT rating all of a sudden? :-/ oh well, life can't always be easy as pie.

11:32

as dead as wot seems it still changes.

11:36

;;gettrust assbot xiando

11:36

Currently authenticated from hostmask xiando!xiando@irc.xiando.org. Trust relationship from user assbot to user xiando: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=xiando | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=xiando | Rated since: Mon Feb 18 08:34:39 2013

11:38

Could you self voice in the past? Maybe somebody here removed their rating?

11:39

Perhaps. But I am just this guy, you know, I rarely have anything important to say so it is fine, really. I can just idle and not be important and not write, that is alright.

11:40

anything import to say today?

11:41

I thought I'd mention that openssl 1.0.1k apparently breaks bitcoin-core which shows how "well programmed" that piece of .. software? is. http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/33221963/

11:41

Bitcoin / Mailing Lists ... ( http://bit.ly/1y0Onwp )

11:42

is this a problem with openssl or bitcoin-core?

11:44

Basically a bugfix in openssl makes bitcoin-core behave differently depending on what openssl version is used

11:53

http://shrani.si/f/2O/R5/4lIvDtR7/advertising.png

11:53

... ( http://bit.ly/1y0PuME )

11:53

might as well put it here.

11:54

!up hermeto

~ 29 minutes ~

12:23

xiando: yeah it breaks it, happy to report libressl does not

~ 25 minutes ~

12:49

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00065628 = 15.1929 BTC [+] {3}

~ 52 minutes ~

13:41

[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1916 @ 0.00089279 = 1.7106 BTC [-] {12}

13:49

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.000659 = 4.3824 BTC [+] {2}

13:49

asciilifeform, others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_ULtNYRCbg << dude made a complete word processor in minecraft, using 'redstone logic'

13:49

Redstone Word Processor/Computer in Minecraft [1024 subscriber special] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/17ugR61 )

13:54

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00064343 = 6.6917 BTC [-]

13:55

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/10/us/politics/prosecutors-said-to-recommend-charges-against-former-gen-david-petraeus.html?_r=1

13:55

Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/17uhQn1 )

13:56

"But investigators concluded that, whether or not the disclosure harmed national security, it amounted to a significant security breach in the office of one of the nation’s most trusted intelligence leaders. They recommended that Mr. Petraeus face charges, saying lower-ranking officials had been prosecuted for far less."

14:01

;;ticker

14:01

Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 278.72, Best ask: 278.87, Bid-ask spread: 0.15000, Last trade: 278.87, 24 hour volume: 36864.61642640, 24 hour low: 271.03, 24 hour high: 305.0, 24 hour vwap: 0

14:07

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2015#972199 << lol right, like nuland.

14:07

Logged on 10-01-2015 18:56:19; decimation: "But investigators concluded that, whether or not the disclosure harmed national security, it amounted to a significant security breach in the office of one of the nation’s most trusted intelligence leaders. They recommended that Mr. Petraeus face charges, saying lower-ranking officials had been prosecuted for far less."

14:07

cheeky politicos you got over there.

14:08

yeah, there's no way they will prosecute

14:08

orly.

14:08

but the little people in usg find that 'unfair'

14:08

peterl btw, know who invented rsa ?

14:08

decimation i suspect you don't understand how that world works.

14:09

xiando: I thought I'd mention that openssl 1.0.1k apparently breaks bitcoin-core << this, of coruse, was discussed for the past few days :)

14:10

kakobrekla bwahaha slander! i'll bet you 1btc straight up they don't do it this month.

14:11

I note someone put a hefty weight against that gold bet

14:11

hm enough so im almost tempted to bet.

14:12

to think that gold will crash is also to think that usd will gain. it's possible, with all this 'oil shock' working its way around

14:15

gold has a problem of demographic. the only people that think gold is functionally useful as a monetary metal are poor. they may be a numerous echelon, relatively speaking, what's left of the upper middle class proceeding on vague intuition and memories. however, they're poor.

14:16

and that poor speaks a lot more to power than just money.

14:16

to everyone else, gold is this quaint horse buggy. no dispute it worked at some point, no desire to go back to that point.

14:16

no chance of it, either.

14:20

mircea_popescu: i built core off libressl, the response was "it builds?"

14:20

heh

14:21

not much love for de radt in power rangerlandia hm ?

14:21

apparently not

14:24

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-to-propose-cybersecurity-measures-1420912674

14:24

Obama to Propose Cybersecurity Measures - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/17unoOc )

14:25

Mr. Obama will also outline proposals to tackle identity theft and expand Internet access.The proposals are part of a White House preview of Mr. Obama’s annual State of the Union address, to be delivered Jan. 20.

14:25

good luck with that

14:28

joecool anyway, the objection generally given to change in that spot ("that the code being merely correct is not enough assurance") is logically valid.

14:29

it's cool though, they are ditching openssl, i'm sure whatever they replace it with will do a better job :)

14:31

im not.

14:32

the exact thing played out once before, "it's cool though, they're ditching bdb, im sure whatever they replace it iwth will do a better job"

14:32

it could. not in their hands it won't.

14:32

mircea_popescu: oh that was entirely sarcastic, i did not phrase that seriously

14:32

o

~ 22 minutes ~

14:55

gold is the old world's litecoin

14:55

had our fun, moving along.

14:58

i was thinking that as i wrote, but then dropped. yes, an apt analogy in many ways. very inept in others tho

14:59

it got me wondering what the old world's bitcoin is, and the least senseless answer is 'bitcoin'

15:00

nah, the old world's bitcoin is an unexpressed mix of contracts and reputation.

15:00

<mircea_popescu> no chance of it, either. < putin thinks otherwise.

15:01

yes, well, putin is running a country. if you're running a country too, by all means, cover all bets to the degree he does.

15:01

makes me wonder where's your nuclear subs, but anyway.

~ 38 minutes ~

15:40

http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2rys7y/are_we_witnessing_the_beginning_of_a_civil/

15:40

Are we witnessing the beginning of a civil buttcoin war? : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHVxQn )

15:41

"It looks like he made his goal in life to be the most detestable person in the internet. (Methinks he is still nowhere near that rank, though.) However he is a precious resource, as an expert bitcoiner who enjoys kicking some of the most sacred cows in bitcoinland."

15:44

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00065872 = 8.0034 BTC [+] {3}

15:58

bit more here too https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919629.0

15:58

Fork off ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHZiVY )

16:02

is that about me ?

16:03

mircea_popescu, nothing you have not heard before lol

16:03

aha

16:03

aite well iwas writing a lengthy piece, brb.

16:07

;;ticker --market all

16:07

Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 276.25, vol: 37825.31373356 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 271.597, vol: 8362.04945 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 277.71, vol: 30430.02066324 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 279.0, vol: 29.42532153 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 270.617724, vol: 119575.66800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 280.0, vol: 51.85575948 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 284.113569988, vol: 36.2511054 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

16:07

cazalla, even "It is a possibility that the MP argument is a virtually literal strawman, atop a bonfire, to fuel a flame war that drives up his LTC holdings." ?

16:08

wtf is virtually literal

16:09

is that like almost true?

16:09

as sensible as the whole statement

16:09

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00066802 = 4.3755 BTC [+]

16:10

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919629.msg10105479#msg10105479 << My favorite so far

16:10

Fork off ... ( http://bit.ly/1wI27pS )

16:11

reading stuff like this makes me think of the matrix

16:11

where you get unplugged and see all this crazy shit and at some point you hack back in and see all the dumb people completely unaware of there shit

16:11

allegory of the cave shit yo

16:12

As Louis Armstrong said, "As I think to myself, was I ever this dumb?" LOL

16:12

BingoBoingo, reads like the only reasonable answer so far

16:25

if the hard fork happens, it should be possible to cycle funds in and out of exchanges that are dumb enough to switch, splitting away real-bitcoin whenever the withdraw gives you an output that hasn't been doublespent yet -- or is this possibility too good to be true?

16:26

danielpbarron: May be possible. I'd count double spending your coins yourself to seperate forks before using them in anger.

16:26

yes that's what i mean; withdraw, split, send fake-coins back into exchange, repeat

16:28

when "dust settles," exchange is now fractional reserve (if it wasn't already)

16:28

danielpbarron no, it works just fine. gavincoin has to accept both bitcoin and gavincoin txn. this writes free options to everyone in bitcoin that gavincoin is held to honor regardless.

16:29

so yes, separate your gavincoins, send to exchange, withdraw. see if it replies with a bitcoin+gavincoin pair, if so separate it again.

16:29

if not, it's out of bitcoin.

16:29

(on the theory oldest inputs are favoured)

16:30

cold wallets may save them to some degree, but it's pretty random.

16:30

in theory, gavincoin will cost more to produce

16:30

the blocks > 1mb

16:30

the gigachain is more expensive in nature no?

16:30

this would work only until the input the exchange is spending for your withdrawal is on both chains

16:30

i guess it would.

16:30

Apocalyptic hence "if it doesn't, it's out of bitcoins"

16:31

indeed

16:31

working on the assumption of naive exchange, of course.

16:31

in practice i';d expect them to separate their funds immediately, and only pay out gavincoins.

16:31

so they scam the userbase more than the userbase scams them

16:32

also, isn't it impossible to guarentee gigachain has 1:1 parity with main-chain?

16:32

how do you mean ?

16:32

they would have to wait for main-chain to mint

16:32

then include all transactions in main chain

16:32

then add more then mint it

16:32

heh somehow i doubt that's how it'l lwork.

16:33

by statistics alone, the transaction will very greatly in each chain

16:33

right.

16:34

so in order to defend the attack gavin would have to include code to keep 1:1 parity with the main-chain while his blocks are minted

16:34

it wouldn't defend.

16:34

how he does that, i dunno and I don't care

16:35

not commpletely defend, just make it so doors are wide open

16:35

aren't*

16:35

1 tx is say 400 bytes. if i split 1k btc into 1k 1 btc txn that's 400kb. if i dump 400kb on the network as it is now, about half would be put into a block immediately.

16:35

whereas in gavincoin, all would go in.

16:35

thus, i split half already.

16:35

exactly.

16:35

even with 1:1 parity, you still get

16:35

so the only way to have bitcoin is 1:1 identity in all respects.

16:36

which is as it should be, really.

16:36

transactions in gigachain that won't exist in main chain

16:36

funny how even trying to dumb the article down, people still don't get that

16:36

i even made a cute little diagram

16:37

i dunno what';s not to get

16:37

i guess we just don't know how bitcoin works amirite?

16:37

this is likely.

16:40

anyway, this is exactly like that alt coin that went nowhere which was going to give everyone with bitcoin as many of the altcoin as they had bitcoin

16:40

i forget its name, but it doesn't matter, the principle is the same.

16:41

CLAMs

16:41

the justdice thing

16:41

the author thought he "covered" the economics involved. then it turned out the author had no fucking idea.

16:42

was that it ? pretty sure there was one before

16:42

rigth at the time keiser was pushing his aurora scam

16:54

!up fff

16:54

!up SnakePls_

16:54

!up jordandotdev

16:54

SnakePls_

!up

16:55

dont break the thing now.

16:56

kakobrekla did bitstamp ever send teh documents ?

16:57

not yet, but its weekend now, they are prolly drinking in some bar.

16:57

in sf ?!

16:57

maybe starbux

16:57

they dont have bars there?

16:58

brb

17:00

a) you can't smoke ; b) alcohol is bad for you mkay

17:01

"So I think the lack of a real computer science today, and the lack of real software engineering today, is partly due to this pop culture [of the personal computer]." https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1039523

17:01

A Conversation with Alan Kay - ACM Queue ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZSPLe )

17:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18720 @ 0.00065069 = 12.1809 BTC [-] {2}

17:15

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13084 @ 0.00066898 = 8.7529 BTC [+] {2}

17:25

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6416 @ 0.0006749 = 4.3302 BTC [+]

17:27

"That's my point. Before you kick a sleeping tiger that has no teeth make sure you can see his gums"

~ 27 minutes ~

17:54

New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/technetium/

~ 40 minutes ~

18:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.0006749 = 13.9367 BTC [+] {2}

~ 17 minutes ~

18:52

afternoon, gents

18:57

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6850 @ 0.00067109 = 4.597 BTC [-]

19:05

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00067109 = 17.9181 BTC [-]

19:09

New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/block-size-fork/

19:15

PeterL, the link on "reported" is broken

19:18

fixed, thanks

19:18

yw

19:19

stan the key you signed those patches with has expired

19:20

asciilifeform ^^

19:20

ben_vulpes: it was updated

19:20

ben_vulpes: resync your gpg

19:20

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00067109 = 3.6574 BTC [-]

19:20

(am i the only one who still expires keys?)

19:21

asciilifeform i hope they model an AI construct after you one day.

19:22

wat

19:24

i'd love to have asciilifeform AI controlling my house

19:24

like JARVIS in Iron Man.

19:26

http://qntra.net/2015/01/bitpay-lays-off-9-employees-today/

19:26

BitPay Lays Off 9 Employees Today | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/14GG6k5 )

19:26

so it begins huh.

19:26

funny how bitstamp's "survival" is front page news but this isn't

19:27

it had employees !?!

19:27

;;google bitpay layoffs

19:27

BitPay Lays Off 9 Employees Today | Qntra.net: <http://qntra.net/2015/01/bitpay-lays-off-9-employees-today/>; Qntra.net | Bitcoin News, Views & Commentary: <http://qntra.net/>; Richard Branson Bitpay Statement - Business Insider: <http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-branson-bitpay-statement-2014-5>

19:27

speaking of bitpay ... are you ever going to put F.DERP shares for sale?

19:27

*

asciilifeform was quite certain that it consisted of a perl script or two

19:27

asciilifeform: i toured the offices. they have like 30+ employees

19:27

what they do I do not know

19:27

s/have/had

19:27

I suppose they could be marketing, trying to get companies to sign up for their service?

19:28

"socal media"

19:28

(not a typo)

19:28

l0l!!!

19:29

are they located in socal?

19:29

ben_vulpes: try sokal media

19:31

PeterL: 'tis a reference to the homeland of the social networks

19:31

asciilifeform: lol

19:31

PeterL yeh gotta do that. i will yes.

19:31

but wouldn't that be in Northern California?

19:32

it's all somalia to me

19:32

ben_vulpes weren'tthey in florida or something ?

19:32

lol, close enough

19:32

jeez guys leave my shitty puns alone

19:32

anyway, socal is where the really easy skanks / surfer dudes / rednecks live.

19:32

ha, I can be hard to please sometimes

19:33

Socal has nice weather, but the people ruin it

19:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.00064987 = 18.2613 BTC [-] {4}

19:36

http://mpex.co/?mpsic=F.DERP looks like the person who bid based on the 10X valuation mistake finally removed their bid

19:38

bruce oreck is my hero

19:39

do tell, why?

19:39

PeterL: http://wemeantwell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/bill-oreck-is-a-douche1.jpg

19:39

... ( http://bit.ly/1Kx1Ors )

19:41

mircea_popescu: where is this long article you've been working on all day?

19:41

thestringpuller bout halfway done it's a scandal!

19:42

i don't mean the article's a scandal, i just mean, it being so long is scandalous.

19:49

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27551 @ 0.00064035 = 17.6423 BTC [-] {4}

19:55

!up shovel_boss_

19:55

!up the_real_john_ga

19:55

shovel_boss_

why did i get up

19:55

you joined channel?

19:55

force of habit

~ 16 minutes ~

20:12

http://i.imgur.com/cikxn8u.jpg

~ 16 minutes ~

20:29

New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/people-we-dont-like-fighting-each-other-an-ode/

~ 31 minutes ~

21:01

mircea_popescu: what on earth do you have against kalash ?! i keep wondering.

21:01

nothing! i have nothing against ice breakers and atomic shelters, either. but i don't own any!

21:01

aha

21:01

i don't go down the street carrying a horse. or a boat.

21:01

they're great, but...

21:02

the article phrased a little differently: 'smartphone... much like ak... simply not useful'

21:02

not UNIVERSALLY useful

21:02

hence confused.

21:02

it's not superman's fucking cape already.

21:02

what'd you do with it ? shoot someone ?

21:02

scalpel also not universally useful.

21:02

if you kill fifty people a day and it's giving you carpal, get an ak do it faster. that i see.

21:02

you've never killed anyone ? what's a rifle to you ? get a dildo.

21:03

brb.

21:03

dafuq does this dishwasher get off claiming a "smart wash" mode?

21:03

ben_vulpes: envirowhinerism

21:03

what kinds of smarts can the thing possibly have

21:04

now the washing machine can at least measure moments of inertia, and make some kind of guess about how much water to derp into itself, that i'll scowlingly perhaps accept if i'm in a generous mood.

21:04

smart as in 'smart free speech.'

21:04

but the dishwasher!?

21:04

asciilifeform: "phree"

21:05

maybe it measures how turdly the water draining out the bottom is? iono

21:07

some kenmore one claims to detect the turdliness of the dishes themselves

21:07

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rzvfu/peter_todd_on_twitter_with_bitstamp_on_amazon_aws/ << is everyone just dumb?

21:08

should I start watering my plants with gatorade yet?

21:08

elektrolytes!

21:09

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rzvfu/peter_todd_on_twitter_with_bitstamp_on_amazon_aws/cnkzl3h << reddit startles

21:09

Elmer__FUD comments on Peter Todd on Twitter: "With Bitstamp on Amazon AWS, there's a high probability that some Three Letter Agency has a copy of their databases; expect zero privacy." ... ( http://bit.ly/1A48GnR )

21:10

;;google "I'm so startled"

21:10

Preview Clip - I'm So Startled! - Video Clip | South Park Studios: <http://southpark.cc.com/clips/189600/preview-clip-im-so-startled>; So Startled - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHAgFhNGbo0>; I'm so STARTLED - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5nlCNWyc30>

21:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7275 @ 0.0006762 = 4.9194 BTC [+] {2}

21:10

*

asciilifeform puts for the record that he is very much looking forward to the first case of goxian btc theft that can only be explained by an overenthusiastic politruk and his root pw.

21:11

"Oops I accidentally copy pasted this password wrong."

21:13

you'll know gotterdammerung isn't far when usg btc-fiat exchange handlers start lifting from the pots, in broad daylight, and leaving their 'patients' to take the blame.

21:13

or what, you didn't think 'kyc' extends to private keys?

21:13

<asciilifeform> [] the default change behaviour is asinine (owing to how it destroys wallet backup as a concept) but i cannot recall how it can be seen as 'vulnerable' << wallet notion itself is asinine

21:14

or rather, notion that bitcoind should bear responsibility for tracking your coinholdings.

21:14

ben_vulpes: one can conceive of 'wallet' that doesn't try to abstract over the actual mechanics of bitcoin

21:15

lol one can concieve of all sorts of things asciilifeform

21:15

betmoose declined my offer. :(

21:15

kakobrekla: surprised ?

21:15

ben_vulpes: how would you propose the user is to keep track of his coin ?

21:15

spreadsheet or org mode file should be adequate for the user of "angry five"

21:16

well i wasnt expecting an answer at all tbh.

21:16

who needs a wallet when you can just create the transaction offline, and then feed the finalized thing to the node

21:16

^^ that behavior actually blows the wallet concept entirely pu

21:16

have no idea why they haven't split the node from the wallet

21:16

thestringpuller: we discussed splitting

21:16

yeah, given a sane interface to feed transactions all manner of other programs can do as they please

21:16

it seems like an utterly obvious and necessary thing to me

21:17

<thestringpuller> have no idea why they haven't split the node from the wallet << mostly time.

21:17

private keys belong on airgapped machine

21:17

well in general.

21:17

raw transaction api backport's not totally trivial.

21:17

fucking bitpay with their nodejs wallet-core-thingamafucker

21:17

"https-snipsnip" this ain't.

21:17

i'd revel in conformal's products if it wasn't written in GO

21:17

thestringpuller: oh tchyeah that thing's considered harmful.

21:18

ah, what's wrong with go, thestringpuller?

21:18

i don't know it?

21:18

XD

21:18

just another *lang

21:18

single-vendor turdware ?

21:18

^- this should be used more often

21:18

i smell toe jam cooking

21:18

This is how I will describe SAP for now on.

21:19

what's toe jam cooking ?

21:19

!s stallman toe jam

21:19

0 results for 'stallman toe jam' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=stallman+toe+jam

21:19

;;google stallman toe jam

21:19

Richard Stallman Eats Something From His Foot - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ>; The Hacker Guru With the World's Best Tour Rider - Gawker: <http://gawker.com/5853965/the-hacker-guru-with-the-worlds-best-tour-rider>; Richard Stallman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman>

21:20

Yea he literally eats something from his foot

21:20

ben_vulpes: you might enjoy last night's thread about this very thing.

21:20

ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-01-2015#972094 and below

21:20

Logged on 10-01-2015 06:34:07; asciilifeform: re: rms and his oddities, i'd note that quite a few (most?) folks would end up regarded as similarly odd, if they somehow were set free to do wtf they pleased

21:21

asciilifeform would enjoi rick and morty

21:21

thestringpuller: i actually saw it.

21:21

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12524 @ 0.00067745 = 8.4844 BTC [+] {2}

21:21

i'll get there eventually, asciilifeform

21:22

<ben_vulpes> but the dishwasher!? << it probably uses less water if you put less clothes in

21:22

heh.

21:23

i musta been putting the wrong objects in the wrong boxes this whole time.

21:23

asciilifeform "I don't perceive a smartphone's worth having. Much like an AK-47, if not for the same reason." << i think it's clearly stated. like an assault rifle, a smartphone's not worth having. not for the same reason tho, but nevertheless, not worth having.

21:23

*

ben_vulpes goes to swap dishwasher and laundry machine loads

21:23

one day future asciilifeform will show up in a delorean talking like Christopher Lloyd. this is when my life will truly begin.

21:24

http://i.imgur.com/asj4rQB.jpg anyhow I'm going to go get two birds stoned at once

21:25

thestringpuller: smokes. let's go.

21:25

"Whoever stands between progress in Bitcoin should be ignored."

21:25

lol cazalla the derps are precious.

21:25

mircea_popescu: 'march from me to the next oak tree.'

21:25

apparently the libertards are actually retarded enough to have misapprehended bitcoin as some sort of ally for their stuff.

21:26

^ i noticed this when writing the 'mpex review' article

21:26

mircea_popescu: some, most aren't intelligent enough to grasp it at a surface level

21:26

sort-of like the way the penguin died out.

21:26

undata right. "men with guns ? wheee they came to play!"

21:26

when I was younger I thought Ron Paul was the way

21:27

it only took a few encounters with that crowd to decide otherwise

21:27

mircea_popescu: interestingly, back when there was a roughly similar 'messianic' cargo cult around pgp (the original pgp) - the folks involved more or less missed all the interesting implications of their toy.

21:27

*

undata was raised by "paleoconservatives"

21:27

[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2234 @ 0.00088999 = 1.9882 BTC [-] {6}

21:27

asciilifeform perhaps for the same reasons.

21:27

for exactly same reasons

21:28

mircea_popescu, we'll see how much of their derping translate into traffic.. that thread is 2nd most popular on bitcointalk today according to blockchained.com

21:28

cazalla if it does translate into traffic you'll see it as a worsening of the demographic quality lol.

21:28

if we're lucky, some will stop by here having read it

21:28

i'll take the liberty of quoting old article of mine: ' I cant help but picture a flashlight or a radio set, left behind in the wilderness by geologists, to be picked up later by some Stone Age aboriginals; to be fought over and worshiped. Until the batteries run out. But the batteries have not yet run out! The flashlight shines, the radio plays. Lets listen and hear what it plays. '

21:29

pgp seems to be living a nice 2nd youth these days tho

21:29

savages, by definition, cannot properly apparehend a flashlight.

21:30

the more furious their activity around it, the more folly. they will come no closer to understanding, e.g., battery

21:30

the definition of savages, you will notice, is formal not substantial.

21:30

references to formal definitions as "by the very definition" are shaky.

21:31

it's a comic book picture, the image

21:31

unfortunately applies to a number of very real people

21:31

that it does.

21:31

kinda why a worldwithout selection wouldbe so sad

21:32

*

asciilifeform racks brain to recall the film where a stone age tribe finds glass bottle

21:32

aha, here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080801

21:32

The Gods Must Be Crazy (1980) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1A4b2Dh )

21:32

"the gods must be crazy"

21:33

*

ben_vulpes imagines watching this flick with a typical progre

21:33

ben_vulpes you live in a good town for that, neh ?

21:33

pick one up!

21:34

"If you are worrying about the time when 20MB per block is filled, you are worrying that bitcoin will have 20x more transactions, an increase from the currently throttle of approx 6 per second to around 120 per second. If you are worrying that bitcoin will have 20x more transactions, then you are worrying about it having many more users."

21:34

derp.

21:34

it's so funny how the arguments in favour of inflation go with the "general public"

21:34

turns out the black guy of that movie died 13 years ago.. sorry to be such a debbie downer

21:35

this could be about silver, or about assignats, or about "the debt ceiling" or anything

21:36

mircea_popescu: i always found it rather odd that folks who very easily see the problems with, e.g., pollution of the atmosphere or of the sea, fail to grasp an exactly analogous argument re: inflation

21:37

because they know that money's going to them.

21:37

and whatever's on the other end of the belching smokestack, isn't ?

21:37

not them.

21:37

there's that and also, I think the american system demonstrates just how obedient the average person is

21:38

and for those that don't get it, they've just been told not to by their televised tribe

21:38

"If Popescu chooses to wage war in fragmented environment and can demonstrate some potential to come out victorious I'll likely put my resources behind his efforts. This exclusively because whatever his motivations might be, his basic end goal and my own seem to align."

21:38

sez tvbconf

21:38

course, forum has no idea who tvbconf is, but hey

21:39

what difference does identity make ?! ANONIMITY IS THE SOLUTION!

21:41

the alert keys are currently only held by gavin and theymos?

21:41

does waiting on apparent victory to ally ever work out?

21:42

in what the WWII sense? or what?

21:42

and i'm not cory or trevor ben_vulpes :P

21:42

generally it's everyone;s favourite tactic lol

21:42

i'm more of a bubbles

21:42

works great for usa, vultures, etc.

21:43

i guess it works if your goal is to suck the conqueror's cocks.

21:43

"I don't think a hard fork would be very difficult, but only if the following two points are taken into account:

21:43

- Support for the fork should be overwhelming. If 95% of the users agree with the fork, the 5% that don't are pretty much forced to participate. Sure, they can keep running the non-forked version, but coins on that chain will be unlikely to keep their value."

21:43

people just don't like to read do they.

21:44

like to lol

21:46

I wonder how Gavin got compromised. Will make for intersting movie one day.

21:46

i'm guessing dollars.

21:46

thestringpuller: compromised how?

21:46

Like did men in black suits just show up and tell him "this is how it's gonna be"

21:46

like being a CIA asset

21:47

or like what

21:47

I dunno was poettering compromised?

21:47

"useful fool" is a phrase asciilifeform's to describe the type

21:47

^

21:47

ben_vulpes: due to lenin

21:47

originally, 'useful idiots'

21:47

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/auxiliary-block-increasing-max-block-size-with-softfork.164883/ (the point that you don't REALLY need to fork bitcoin to "enlarge blocks" is acutally 2 years old)

21:47

Auxiliary block: Increasing max block size with softfork | Bitcointa.lk ... ( http://bit.ly/1A4cRjx )

21:47

everyone prolly forgot.

21:48

yea it's even linked in the fork off thread

21:48

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10515 @ 0.00066518 = 6.9944 BTC [-]

21:48

and people kinda just push it under the carpet

21:49

"Nah. We want a hardfork."

21:50

right.

21:50

so what's next, if this somehow succeeds ? two years from now, liberia uses bitcoin as nat'l currency, suddenly the workers go on strike, ask for double salaries. govt asks gavin to fork btc to give them an extra one-off five million btc to pay the workers.

21:50

everyone agrees, right ?

21:51

because a) poor workers, they need it and b) not agreeing would be being against expanded usage of bitcoin

21:51

yay. free bitcoins for everyone!

21:51

and for that matter c) there's already precedent, the "poor users" who wanted to play but didn't want to pay tx fees were given free stuff before.

21:51

"bitcoins"

21:51

no we can all buy aston martins

21:51

now*

21:51

how about the idea is that bitcoin adoption means OTHER PEOPLE AND THINGS CHANGE ?

21:52

we don't change for the fucking world. the world changes. anything and everything.

21:52

the sec changes its procedures to accomodate my dictates.

21:52

liberia fucking changes its labor laws to accomodate bitcoin.

21:52

that sort of thing.

21:52

wtf are we here, to entertain the world ?

21:52

it's not really an argument at this point.

21:52

this isn't tv.

21:52

just kinda...inevitable.

21:52

what is ?

21:53

war

21:53

world changing

21:53

war too

21:53

yeah well...

21:53

i'm not sure why it even matters what the gavinists do, so long as the original blockchain continues to run as designed. it then remains a 'hawala' between actual people, and zimbabwe can do whatever

21:53

usg can mandate its serfs run .10 or w/e

21:53

asciilifeform sure.

21:54

http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/#comment-6676 <<

21:54

The Hard Fork Missile Crisis | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1A4dsld )

21:54

the great gift of satoshi is exactly that : we finally have a tool whereby idiots can only hurt themselves.

21:54

ben_vulpes: i suspect that the only reason we do not yet have 'mandatory' national altcoins is that lizardhitler still hopes to wind back clock to '08 or the like

21:54

bitcoin didn't appreciably suffer because whatever scam, paycoin or w/e was created

21:54

"just as much a cryptocurrency, only better!"

21:55

recall realsolid ?

21:55

same deal here. so gavin is making something that

21:55

's "just as much bitcoin as bitcoin only better" ? poopy for him lol.

21:55

he can pay gmaxwell in it and tip reddit.

21:58

!up hermeto

21:59

"MP def lost the intellectual battle by the brag of wealth as his last effort to win."

21:59

check out the many ways you can lose "intellectual battles" lol.

22:01

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00066308 = 3.879 BTC [-]

22:06

this has nothing to do with the block size anymore does it?

22:06

mircea_popescu: 'at no point was the FSF an important force on the field.' << though history isn't an experimental science, we are getting a kind of picture of what we may have ended up with much sooner, without rms

22:06

This is about Gavin proving he can hijack the Bitcoin network to whomever his handler may be.

22:06

apple's bsd fork is the likely model

22:06

thestringpuller more like, proving that he can STILL do it.

22:06

'embrace&extinguish'

22:07

obilteration of legacy...

22:07

asciilifeform but listen. just because the tiny nation of romania made the famine at leningrad possible doth not mean romania was an IMPORTANT player in ww2.

22:07

and an argument that hitler marginalized antonescu is at best bizarre.

22:07

22:07

Logged on 07-01-2015 04:41:46; asciilifeform: naggum had a piece where he confessed to thinking of 'open source' as a weapon, purpose-built for the destruction of a particular evil (microshit)

22:08

mircea_popescu: finland better example

22:08

yeah, tellingly no mention of gates makes into morozov's thinking.

22:08

i guess "important" is not the best word, as im discussing size-importance.

22:09

not sure how'd that be said better.

22:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18794 @ 0.00067437 = 12.6741 BTC [+] {2}

22:14

'Stallman complained that anything of good quality remains...' << rms is a counterweight.

22:15

he has some rather peculiar and sometimes contradictory logic behind the -why- of what he does, but so did semmelweis.

22:17

'gpl' is a weapon. yes, bullet makes bloody holes in things - that's what it was made for. yes, bullet is dumb and goes in whatever direction for no really logical reasons it can explain. big surprise.

22:18

RMS isn't married is he.

22:18

not afaik

22:18

no wonder his eccentricities go unchecked.

22:19

they go unchecked because he has independent income.

22:19

an no she-devil at home to suck his life force away

22:20

good for him tho

22:20

thestringpuller: these are optional

~ 25 minutes ~

22:45

asciilifeform yes, all that's true.

22:45

neither of it enacts rms as some sort of Jesus unless im missing a lot ?

22:48

no jesusen needed

22:48

right.

22:50

i don't propose that rms "shouldn't have" or that fsf shouldn't have been or anything of the sort. but really, the pretense that at some point the situation seriously was, red pill vs blue pill and o'reilly of all people tricked everyone into getting the wrong pill...

22:50

that's rank nonsense, who ever heard of it.

22:50

see the semmelweis example. it doesn't much matter that he advocated 'wash hands' because the cockroaches and spiders in his head told him to, rather than some better reason.

22:50

the situation was microsoft or go hang yourself, to which a lot of people who didn't particularly wish to hang themselves reacted as best they could,

22:51

and in the end it killed ms, but then... google was born, and apple was reborn, and here we are.

22:51

the thing rms was trying to kill in, say, 'right to read', is still alive and well.

22:51

right.

22:51

and this for structural reasons, really.

22:51

arguably microshit is reborn in these other devils, much as ibm was reborn in it

22:51

if i write something on my slavew's thigh it's none of your damned business wtf.

22:51

usg dept. of computing.

22:52

thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/ << wd

22:52

The Hard Fork Missile Crisis | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1w8dGFC )

22:52

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

22:52

The Right to Read- GNU Project - Free Software Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1w8dExK )

22:52

^ about something rather else

22:52

is it ?

22:53

also hey qntra would you drop gravatar for the "here's my domain, please serve domain/avatar.png" icon model?

22:53

holy shit it lives

22:53

it's about the inevitable war of the state and its shitminions vs. the concept of the general-purpose computer.

22:54

asciilifeform in one aspect. now make an ethical distinction / moral rule (really nfi why they keep derping about ethics, its all a moral consideration) that resolves that while preserving my slave's thigh.

22:54

*

asciilifeform is somewhat confused

22:54

slave's thigh ?

22:54

yes. that if i write something on my slave's thigh, it's none of your damned business.

22:56

state the rms "ethical consideration" w/e it is. "nobody may forbid anyone's access to written strings" ?

22:56

rms was speaking of the right to do as you will with things that are physically yours, without gestapo suddenly breaking down the door and demanding to see if you've multiplied unauthorized numbers

22:56

but this is a summary instead of the thing.

22:56

*

asciilifeform doesn't go in for the whole 'rights' paradigm and isn't terribly fond of proceeding in that framework

22:57

how's this rule sound ?

22:57

well he gotta have something. you can't start a "social movement" out of vague descriptions of desired outcomes

22:57

there must be some sort of code somewhere.

22:57

rms might say, 'i'll leave you with your slave, you leave me with my computer'

22:57

what if it's my computer ?

22:57

somethinglikethat

22:58

yours?

22:58

as in, lent to him ?

22:58

suppose i make computers, and decide to not sell them. what now ?

22:58

yes, as in lent to him.

22:58

then presumably he made some oath in return ?

22:58

"but that's bad"

22:58

it really doesn't amount to much, if you examine it.

22:59

to follow the analogy, rms was offered computer that came with 'strings' - promise not to xxx, etc. went off to make own.

22:59

your " without gestapo suddenly breaking down the door and demanding to see if you've multiplied unauthorized numbers" is exactly equivalent i suspect to what i call who are you again ? fuck off, I don't give a shit" sort of approach to third parties of any man owning a computer

22:59

but these aren't a moral philosophy.

23:00

pretending the contrary is fine, if one so prefers, but it's still mere pretense.

23:00

i suspect that he spun the whole thing as 'moral philosophy' because if he had readily admitted that gpl was merely a successful hack against usg's 'laws', he would have been killed.

23:00

or so he feared, or so he cared.

23:00

aha

23:01

anyway, for whatever reason, things still are what they are.

23:01

whereas cultivating 'sainthood', lame as it is, appears to have worked - at least for preserving his skin.

23:01

not that i think fsf's bad or anything. merely observing that peanuts aren't aeroplanes does not imply a hatred of peanuts.

23:02

so let's go further in the fertile soil (hint hint) of female simile

23:02

as mere aesthetic preference, i'd rather if folks were able to be honest with themselves and others re: their motivations. but i did not fight rms's war, cannot say 'he oughta have....'

23:02

if you get married, which is to say, BORROW a woman from her father, and swear an oath

23:02

may you have now anal sex ? provided you both agree to it ?

23:02

the traditional answer is no.

23:03

modernity soundly answered yes.

23:03

rms' ideas are a sort of "this is computing so elvis never happened".

23:03

reminds of that mortmain thing

23:03

in a sense.

23:03

*

asciilifeform blew a good 3-4 hours reading about it

23:04

hehe not wasted time.

23:04

it

23:04

s perhaps the most informative avenue into the ACTUAL history of this sphere.

23:04

not re-narrated with a view to make contemporary institutions meaningful and appear sensible.

23:04

but actually, as it was, with a view to its own self coherence.

23:04

in one sense, jurists have things easy re: mortmain; they at least have the option of going 'no more'

23:05

only recently.

23:05

go and try reversing, e.g., design space shrinkage in engineering

23:05

as late as 1880 it was held that such option is not on the table

23:05

aha because 'then may as well the breaking of the tablets, all bets off'

23:05

and ironically, it seems the old hands were right. it went to shit since then.

23:05

yep exactly.

23:05

"paper laws" are quite like paper money.

23:05

sapper - errs once.

23:08

re: rms: i vaguely recall that gpl was invented (conceptually) by his friend & associate, eben moglen

23:08

a jurist

23:08

here's a question, btw : what's better, to be running the proverbial taxi in new york ? or to be in a later generation, playing exactly the role of pocahontas to various ngos, "look at this nigger injun, how like our own kids he is, and how pretty in that dress!" ?

23:09

who wrote, iirc, 'yes, i despise law; yet i practice it; must a doctor love disease?'

23:09

lol i recall that.

23:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21005 @ 0.00066187 = 13.9026 BTC [-] {2}

23:10

pocahontas << is this the old russian prison quiz, 'fork in yer eye or once up yer arse ?'

23:11

no, it's simply looking at the life of one evgheny morozov. for you see stan, little zenja was a country boy that got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of anglo propaganda and intenrational diplomacy!

23:12

rot13 answ: gur cnffvat nafjre vf, nyjnlf, gb gnxr gur sbex. bhtug gb xabj gung gurer ner ab sbexf va gur cevfba. naq rira vs gurer jrer, sne orggre gb ybfr lbhe rlr guna gb or ybjrerq vagb crqrenfgl.

23:13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Morozov

23:13

Evgeny Morozov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1w8f6Ad )

23:14

mircea_popescu: i somehow lived life and avoided learning that the fellow who prints the (now mostly junk) books with the animal line drawings on the covers is a demented sv sc4mz0r; or that morozov existed at all

23:14

although

23:14

come to think of it, orlov may have mentioned him once

23:14

see how corrupting an influence assbot is ?

23:14

identified as a u.s. state dept. muppet

23:15

what, they print army manuals too /

23:15

"an idiot's guide to cleanning your boots!"

23:16

wat

23:16

i dunno, was asking.

23:16

/ = ?

23:16

there are several, afaik independent, lines of 'for idiots' works

23:16

i actually own a copy of, i shit thee not, 'webtv for dummies'

23:16

as a result of losing a bet in school

23:17

o wow, webtv

23:17

that was a bitcoin fork at some point too!

23:23

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digerati

23:23

Digerati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1y24LwW )

23:23

ajhahahaha

23:24

check this out, the digested.

23:24

that's how he fucking confuses thiel and kelly. they're all digested, right ? same thing!

23:26

asciilifeform so i follow your link to gnu.org, top of the page ? a very wikipedia-ish request for donations.

23:26

sleeker than wikipedia's tho. the definitely web 1.0 look of gnu.org helps.

23:30

mircea_popescu: fsf begs for every coin, aye

23:30

always has

23:31

obviously it will have to, it's a non profit. no issue with the substance. the form struck me tho.

23:32

is it that wikipedia has found the bewst way to do this ? or is it that once they did it everyone can follow in that wake ?

23:32

'digerati', as i understand, encompasses a set of peculiarly wealthy ('dotcom boom', normally, but often barnacled to this or that mega-corp success of some vaguely computerized sort 1980-2000)

23:32

who imagine themselves 'lead thinkers'

23:32

best example i know of, of this animal, is one jaron lanier

23:32

truly grotesque specimen

23:32

never heard of him.

23:33

strictly zoological interest

23:33

strike that, entomological.

23:34

some musician or something ?

23:34

not famous for music. but happened to purchase a number of rare instruments, iirc, to pluck at while sitting on golden toilet

23:40

lanier, in particular, isn't a muppet, and even had a number of public good points (wrote at length re: the degeneracy of pediwikia, etc) - but, while reading his material, i continuously found myself asking 'why does this man have money'

23:41

it's not a crime is it ?

23:41

not the having-money, but being part of that set, in my mind, is an indelible tarnish

23:41

the california degenerates.

23:41

would you fuck a nazi ?

23:42

depends!

23:42

hehe.

23:43

*

asciilifeform has the utmost difficulty picturing a female nazi other than proverbial 'ilsa, she-wolf of auschwitz'

23:43

generally i think of the girl that poisoned her brood.

23:43

mrs goebbels ?

23:43

kinda surprised there's not more art dedicated to her. i'm unaware of more remarkable women in the xxth century.

23:43

yes.

23:44

mircea_popescu: ever see film 'come and see' ('Иди и смотри') ?

23:44

nop

23:45

nice osunding name huh.

23:45

idi-i-smotri

23:46

"During WWII, a Belarusian boy is thrust into the atrocities of war, fighting with a hopelessly unequipped Soviet resistance movement against ruthless German forces. Witnessing scenes of abject terror and surviving horrifying situations, he loses his innocence and then his mind."

23:46

dude what do they have against bielorussians! it's always them getting fingers caught in doors.

23:46

one memorable scene. germans waste a village, shown in glorious detail (complete with barns nailed shut, set alight, etc, etc). on their way out, get ambushed and mowed down. including their hot chick nurse, but she's not entirely dead. hero (boy) walks along and finds this. takes a look at the chick, who is bleeding and looking seductively at him. then he sees bandage pack on ground. decides to bandage broken stock of his rif

23:46

le instead.

23:47

(why he has rifle? no reason. just found it, while derping his way through the war, miraculously avoiding ending up sausage)

23:48

heh.

23:55