Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2023-07-30 | 2023-08-01 →
07:16 gregorynyssa Spengler taught that will-to-power was not, in fact, invented by Nietzsche, but is rather the very essence of Germanic thought since ancient times.
07:18 gregorynyssa In his view, Nietzsche and Goethe were both expositors of the fundamental Western (that is, Germanic) spirit.
07:20 gregorynyssa asciilifeform: signpost: awt: Was there any discussion of the possibility of an "sbase" written in Ada?
07:23 gregorynyssa awt: How was your parsing routine for IRC packets designed?
07:24 gregorynyssa My strategy (using ad-hoc parsing instead of parser-generators) is first to determine whether or not the initial "source" field is present.
07:25 gregorynyssa Then, find the body/payload which is marked by the first colon which is preceded by a space.
07:26 gregorynyssa After the body/payload is chopped off, I take the shortcut of using java.util.StringTokenizer to get the command (such as PRIVMSG) and options.
~ 20 minutes ~
07:46 * gregorynyssa will be back later.
~ 1 hours 44 minutes ~
09:30 awt gregorynyssa: may I ask why you are parsing IRC packets?
~ 29 minutes ~
10:00 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-30#1029234 << asciilifeform is baking a wx-based cpp pestron, where worx on all major os (but, sadly, at 'geological' speed, have been at it for almost a yr nao)
10:00 bitbot Logged on 2023-07-30 14:30:42 gregorynyssa[PeterL|signpost|deedbot]: The program is still operable on macOS but the frame-rate of the GUI drops to 1-2.
10:01 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-30#1029241 << nope so far
10:01 bitbot Logged on 2023-07-30 15:21:22 gregorynyssa[deedbot|PeterL|signpost]: asciilifeform: If I might ask, did the advent of GPT 3.5 and 4 exceed your expectations regarding what neural networks are capable of?
10:01 dulapbot Logged on 2023-02-07 17:16:43 asciilifeform: signpost: thing behaves precisely like asciilifeform imagined in 1990s 'wat if i had over9000 cpu & disk to run my shannonizer'
10:01 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-30#1029250 << plox to v genesis
10:01 bitbot Logged on 2023-07-30 16:29:23 gregorynyssa[deedbot|PeterL]: billymg: asciilifeform: I wanted to mention that I would be interested in sharing the source-code of my client.
10:02 asciilifeform http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-31#1029286 << watsa 'sbase' ?
10:02 bitbot Logged on 2023-07-31 07:20:51 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL|deedbot]: asciilifeform: signpost: awt: Was there any discussion of the possibility of an "sbase" written in Ada?
~ 26 minutes ~
10:29 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029796 << My Java implementation of Pest includes the IRC bridge.
10:29 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 09:28:58 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: may I ask why you are parsing IRC packets?
10:31 gregorynyssa I saw your old messages regarding the writing of the IRC parser, and was wondering whether you wrote out a grammar for the IRC packets.
10:35 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029804 << "sbase" is a project by Suckless (the creator of the dwm(1) window-manager) to re-write "coreutils" so that the code is safer and more concise.
10:35 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 10:00:51 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-31#1029286 << watsa 'sbase' ?
10:35 bitbot Logged on 2023-07-31 07:20:51 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL|deedbot]: asciilifeform: signpost: awt: Was there any discussion of the possibility of an "sbase" written in Ada?
~ 34 minutes ~
11:09 shinohai I believe `sbase` the suckless version of base unix tools iirc.
11:10 shinohai GM pestizens!
11:13 signpost I pulled in busybox in this place
11:13 signpost but not after a rigorous comparison with sbase
11:19 * shinohai loves busybox for some reason ......
~ 16 minutes ~
11:36 awt gregorynyssa: I used a pre-existing python implementation of an IRC server. I don't recall exactly how it worked but I believe it's in client.py in the blatta source.
~ 2 hours 22 minutes ~
13:58 awt gregorynyssa: what is the purpose of the IRC bridge?
~ 1 hours 52 minutes ~
15:50 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029818 << I am referring to the code which connects Pest to IRC.
15:50 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 13:56:26 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: what is the purpose of the IRC bridge?
~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~
17:31 awt gregorynyssa: Why are you connecting pest to IRC? Are you writing a bridge bot?
17:45 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029821 << I simply wrote my program according to the specification.
17:45 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 17:29:55 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: Why are you connecting pest to IRC? Are you writing a bridge bot?
17:46 gregorynyssa Please look at the specification, section 2.5.
17:56 awt gregorynyssa: we tried using IRC clients as pest clients, but it didn't work out well. See for example: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007244. I'm not sure if that's your intent.
17:56 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-17 02:44:44 asciilifeform: naturally impossible w/ irc frontend tho
17:59 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029825 << I did not know that you and the others gave up on the IRC portion of Pest.
17:59 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 17:55:09 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: we tried using IRC clients as pest clients, but it didn't work out well. See for example: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007244. I'm not sure if that's your intent.
17:59 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-17 02:44:44 asciilifeform: naturally impossible w/ irc frontend tho
18:00 gregorynyssa I have not kept up with the logs.
18:00 gregorynyssa Thus, I wrote my Java implementation with both the IRC bridge and a GUI.
18:00 * awt formatted messages
18:02 awt How would you display the thousands of messages during the initial getdata sync on an IRC client, for example?
18:02 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029832 << Have a look at this line within the logs. This is a leaky abstraction.
18:02 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 17:59:04 awt[asciilifeform]: formatted messages
18:03 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029833 << By maintaining a reordering buffer, which can be queried by the operator.
18:03 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 18:00:39 awt[asciilifeform]: How would you display the thousands of messages during the initial getdata sync on an IRC client, for example?
18:06 gregorynyssa awt: I am reading the transcript of 2022-06-17 which you linked.
18:06 gregorynyssa Have a look at this line: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007309
18:06 bitbot Logged on 2022-06-17 16:44:01 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007298 << afaik all attempts at gui glue are doomed to be either intimately os-specific (and straightjacketed firmly into whatever knobs $os supports) or 'hobbyist joke'; or, often enuff, ~both~ of these
18:07 awt Messages come in in order of latest to earliest. If there are 10k messages, do you wait until you've received all 10k to ensure they're ordered properly before outputting to the irc client?
18:07 gregorynyssa During the early years of Tk, one of the design-goals was close integration with X Window.
18:07 gregorynyssa Thus Tk fell into the category of being "intimately OS-specific."
18:07 gregorynyssa However, it was later adapted to other operating systems.
18:09 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029841 << You can treat the IRC client as a command-line.
18:09 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 18:05:22 awt[asciilifeform]: Messages come in in order of latest to earliest. If there are 10k messages, do you wait until you've received all 10k to ensure they're ordered properly before outputting to the irc client?
18:09 gregorynyssa Wait for 200 messages before sending them to the client. Let the operator query the rest later.
18:15 awt I believe there is a more recent draft of the spec. I have a local copy but can't find a link.
18:16 awt Where for ex. there is no longer an order buffer, and there's something like a long buffer but it's called the "Filter."
18:16 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029848 << I have only read the 0xFB version.
18:16 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 18:14:10 awt[asciilifeform]: I believe there is a more recent draft of the spec. I have a local copy but can't find a link.
18:19 gregorynyssa signpost: Does your implementation of Luby codes support streams of indefinite duration, or only files of known size?
18:20 gregorynyssa Implementing a TCP-like protocol using UDP is a common problem in professional-level game-development.
18:22 gregorynyssa signpost: asciilifeform: If I am not mistaken, the benefit of Luby codes is that we no longer need a TCP-like flow-control mechanism.
~ 45 minutes ~
19:08 awt gregorynyssa: latest draft: http://loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_predraft_html.tgz
19:11 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029855 << I am reading it now. I can see that a lot has been changed.
19:11 dulapbot Logged on 2023-07-31 19:06:58 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: latest draft: http://loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_predraft_html.tgz
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