Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-11-01 | 2022-11-03 →
10:11 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
10:11 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $20407.04
~ 24 minutes ~
10:36 shinohai Doing some research on lilygo watch and a wild jurov appeared lol:
10:43 asciilifeform shinohai: photo is defo of same fella ( met him in at mp's thing in '14 )
10:44 billymg god dammit, i think my isp here just started throttling torrents. ubuntu (as a test, 2k seeders) downloading at < 50kB/s
10:44 asciilifeform shinohai: not entirely surprising to see him in forums, d00d aint dead, just went for greener pastures.
10:45 asciilifeform billymg: only torrents, or errything 50kB/s ?
10:45 billymg only torrents
10:46 asciilifeform billymg: which isp ?
10:46 billymg coopeguanacaste fibra optica
10:47 * asciilifeform at one time had 'they're throttling torrents' moment, but turned out to be misconfig'd nat
10:47 billymg nothing changed in my config
10:49 billymg and the torrents connect to plenty of peers, so not a discovery issue
10:50 billymg is why i tested the most mainstream torrent i could think of, the ubuntu iso
10:50 asciilifeform surprising that they weren't before ( fiber monopolies in bananistans, slicing a 10g/s pipe to oversell to 1e7 people. recall the piz pipe )
10:52 billymg i haven't been living at this property for last 15 months, just recently moved back. but i noticed in the condo i was living in that my download (and upload) speeds suddenly tanked to ~50kB/s a couple of days ago
10:53 billymg that was a different isp (or possibly the same, but cable, not fiber)
10:53 billymg so i figured, "oh well, moving out anyway", only to see the same thing here now
10:59 billymg just emailed them asking more or less what their problem is
11:00 * billymg pays for 3 separate fiber optic connections from these guys, in total around $160/mo
11:07 billymg just checked, was different isp at the other place
11:18 asciilifeform why 3?
11:20 billymg one for me, one for groundskeeper about 150 meters away (on slower tier), one for rental units
11:21 billymg could be consolidated into one connection, with ethernet running through the conduits instead of the fiber cable
11:22 billymg will see what they respond with, perhaps "must purchase 'commercial' plan if you want to torrent", in which case i would likely consolidate the three
11:24 billymg or see if any of the colo isps here don't mind me running a seedbox
~ 25 minutes ~
11:49 awt Any particularly good warez/movies you are torrenting billmg?
11:51 billymg every gamecube iso: 5307f0db418ae2cb1f01d5a1acd4f02389d19ae0; every ps2 iso: 8517b29d393c291aa331e9f479b3767321b200ed; every ps1 iso: 5206a9321690fed58785297fc88955c861fd0b6d
11:54 * billymg hasn't touched a game in the last two months or so but was into 'retro' emulation earlier in the year
11:59 billymg for anyone that wants to look up those rom dumps, they can be found by entering the hashes into here:
12:00 billymg which i also thought was a neat project, written by a 'kevinlynx' who also does some lisp, erlang, and c stuff
~ 21 minutes ~
12:21 billymg awt: if you're into that stuff, i found Parasite Eve and Ace Combat 2 for ps1 to be quite comfy
~ 19 minutes ~
12:41 phf << it's using x11. there's a precedent for fb, macivory was working directly with video memory blocks, but there's nobody capable and willing to do that hack
12:41 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-01 22:25:46 asciilifeform[5]: phf: does your arm-mac port of the emulator still use x11 for output? or has own fb
12:45 phf i like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
12:45 phf
12:57 * unpx is questioning F2[x]/(x^8 + x^4 + x^3 + x + 1) imprimitivity in AES
13:02 unpx It scratches my head just like non-unit elements of a ring are not able to generate a cyclic multiplicative group
13:07 billymg phf: i fired that one up since i remembered enjoying Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin as a kid but never played SotN, was not in a Castlevania mood in that moment so set it aside for later
~ 16 minutes ~
13:23 asciilifeform phf: near as asciilifeform was able to tell from reading the macivory 'lifesupport' srcs, the card shits directly to video ram. theoretically could emulate this (if wanted emulator w/out xorg)
13:24 asciilifeform would prolly need to emulate aspects of 'ivory' that aint in the vlm & descendent items tho
13:24 asciilifeform unpx: what were you trying to do ?
13:37 asciilifeform phf: re microcode btw: there's a 'si:read-rom-word' in genera/distribution/sys/sys/wired.lisp . seems to eat argument n and walk out nth word of the rom. ( not tried it on mine yet )
13:39 asciilifeform whole thing fwiw. 'COMPUTE-IVORY-REVISION' is sumwhat interesting, seems to imply that there was a ~4th~ rev. (previously only knew of 3 editions)
13:45 * asciilifeform erry time loox at bolix srcs, is almost cured of the notion of doing anyffin w/ subj -- thing is of screamingly 'indian' flavour, over9000 mysterious hacks layered 1 on top of other
~ 44 minutes ~
14:29 unpx asciilifeform[crtdaydreams]: just trying to see if GF(2^8) does something strange with that polynomial compared to a promitive polynomial on the multiplicative side of things...
14:30 unpx Someone pointed to me the part where they claim they just took the first they saw
14:31 unpx An looking at that same exact table I cannot unsee the order of that polynomial being 52
~ 28 minutes ~
14:59 phf (DEFWIREDVAR *MORE-SPECIAL* NIL) ;must always be T! set to nil at own risk 89-01-03 reti, don't switch it back, further discussion IGUANA:>reti>zora-unmodified-prom-exp.text
15:07 phf i was so proud of this lisp machine joke that i also sent it to all 5 people who would get it
15:11 asciilifeform phf: thing is fulla lulz like that. ( and asciilifeform either not dug enuff, or hasn't the right leaked tapes, to properly get most of'em )
15:12 asciilifeform seems as if authors were quite certain that not only no 'heathen' would ever lay eyes on the sores, but not even to have to explain it to one at any point
15:13 asciilifeform fwiw e.g. microshit's src dun look like this. (nor any other commercial sores asciilifeform ever glimpsed)
15:13 asciilifeform at the same time, it -- evidently -- worked.
15:15 asciilifeform ( it is at this pt that, if we were in a heathenpit, e.g. HN, ~somebody~ would be guaranteed to chime in with a 'lisp makes life too easy, encourages these iguanas...' etc )
15:16 asciilifeform ( with oblig link to e.g. )
15:19 phf i think the cause and effect is confused. lower in the system you go, the more likely it is that the code predates vairous accepted and established programming paradigms
15:22 phf and the actual lisp machine people were both inventing those paradigms or else integrating them from elsewhere
15:26 phf so like while everyone™ writes assembler, cadr's SYSTEM is written in the 1968 dijkstra pascal style: a file defines its state varibles at the top (kind of like pascal's declaration block), and then you have a bunch of structure programming style defuns operating on that state. but then alan kay invents object orientatio
15:26 phf n, so they bolt flavors on top, and now you have a combination of styles, because legacy code, etc.
15:28 phf by the time you get to '98 genera, you have a dozen of paradigms, ranging from late 60s all mixed in a single system. and it's a sensible thing to write to whatever style you're working with in the particular part of code, unless you're prepared to do a full re-architecture/re-write
15:29 phf so if you read document explorer, there's tons of places where "the correct architecture is now X, and we've migrated foo, bar and qux to it, but there's still buz and frob written in the old style"
15:34 phf where's by the time they start writing windows you can find books on object oriented programming in c++ at barnes and noble. they use hungarian notation ffs is how spoiled they are :)
15:37 phf and the whole "biplar lisp programmer" has nothing to do with lisp machine world, and more to do with the fact that by the time that meme appears most people who still write code are insane (or at least most vocal ones, the xah lees and the naggums)
15:37 phf *who still write lisp code
15:50 * asciilifeform suspects phf 100% right re above
15:52 phf lisp machine code and lisp in general is the way it is, because bunch of grownups were inventing the future as they went along, and by the time their knowledge was delivered to the people, prometheus style, certain conclusions were already made, and then essentially crystalized from then on. windows circa '95 (i've not had
15:52 phf seen 3.11 source) is basically genera circa '85 with all the legacy craft removed.
15:52 asciilifeform the 1 detail could add , possibly -- the atrocious quality of period irons ( 3600 era, where 3 tonnes of wire-wrap ) , made for the 'magick-toggle-no-9001-please-dont-change' style
15:54 phf ^
15:55 asciilifeform warehouse fulla 74xxx not shown. but yea
15:55 asciilifeform they made outta what they had.
15:57 * asciilifeform erry time thinks to gripe re 'fpga too small' -- recalls above photo
16:01 asciilifeform the amazingly frustrating thing re modern era is that over9000 interesting things nao over9000x easier to do than in that '78; but the intersection b/w sets of folx with the time and those who giveashit is nullset
16:02 phf i'm kind of with locklin on this, it's because we've replaced slide rules with digital :>
16:02 asciilifeform 'invent future' gave way to 'how do i con the folx with the printer, brrr outta somemoar dough'; so long ago that phrase 'invent future' nao sounds quite like sovok 'apple trees on mars' nostalgia flavour
16:05 asciilifeform the iron for e.g. lispm on fpga costs coupla hundy. but who has time, to recreate the os etc. (other than aristocrats, very busy with quite other biz, lol )
16:05 bitbot Logged on 2022-10-31 17:04:55 asciilifeform[5]: 'wai do anyffin but lines of coke off back of whore, if yer not a luser' etc
16:05 signpost sounds like another consequence of the evisceration of the economic middle, which happened in parallel to this era.
16:06 signpost yep asciilifeform beat me there
16:06 asciilifeform signpost: tbf greenblatt et al weren't amateurs in kitchen, but eaters at a very generous pentagon trough
16:08 asciilifeform trough still, theoretically there; but when disgorges coupla $mil, what it buys is 10kloc of java and coupla yachts, typically
16:08 asciilifeform somehow not lispm lol
16:08 asciilifeform 'snake shed its legs'
16:15 asciilifeform + as phf alluded to, close contact w/ 'modern kompyooting' is enuff to cure justabout anyone of all desire to 'try to greenblatt'
16:16 asciilifeform what remains is the diagnosable schizos and a few old men.
16:17 signpost commentary on where inventing the future went; printola destroys the pentagon's ability to select as much as it destroys the (at one point) young men's ability to produce.
16:18 asciilifeform signpost: the selectees, unsurprisingly, 'exam-take'
16:18 signpost pentagon trough at one point produced sr71. trough's not by itself a sin, but what's in it, who eats.
16:19 signpost subj of FPGAs, my two arrived.
16:19 asciilifeform same thing happened in sovok. 1st gen of folx who actually amounted to sumthing; then, their children, and the latter 'coke from back of whore'(tm) and finita la commedia
16:19 phf there's a music package on whisperer tapes, that is a kind of shared endeavor by various researchers, that was never released or even given a name ("defsystem MUSIC"). somebody at CCRMA packaged and released a (significantly evolved and nerfed) subset of it as Common Music, and i suspect the reason why it's significantly n
16:20 phf erfed is because it's chock full of patented stuff. i've not spent much time establishing that the codes are the same, but cursory look at definstrument form seems to imply they are identical. but anyway there's a bunch of code in there written by john chowning, the inventor and the main patenter of FM synthesis, and judgi
16:20 phf ng by style it was written for a cadr
16:20 asciilifeform phf: may explain the otherwise mysterious inclusion of a princely 16bit/44khz (iirc) sound card in the 36xx consoles
16:20 asciilifeform with its own m68k
16:22 asciilifeform ( some of it visible here )
16:23 asciilifeform the 'golden toilet' luxury of ^ possible not obv to modern eyes -- but there was equiv. of 2 or 3 'commodore amigas' in there, transistor for transistor
16:23 asciilifeform just in console
16:24 * asciilifeform not ever owned the 2nd edition of console, so not knows if moar compact / vlsi'd
16:24 asciilifeform there were 2 of'em
16:24 asciilifeform both with in-house custom glass (nobody at the time sold off-the-shelf 'svga'-res. tube)
16:25 phf “He spent six years turning his breakthrough into a system of musical importance and eventually was able to simulate a large number of musical sounds, including the singing voice. In 1974, Stanford University licensed the discovery to Yamaha,[4] with whom Chowning worked in developing a family of synthesizers and electro
16:25 phf nic organs. This was Stanford's most lucrative patent at one time,[5] eclipsing many in electronics, computer science, and biotechnology.”
16:26 asciilifeform yamaha opl3/4 & clones still humming along in over9000 toys aha
16:26 asciilifeform ( incl. errybody's childhood 'adlib' & 'soundblaster' )
16:26 phf that's like 10 to 20 years later :>
16:27 asciilifeform well yes, 10+y is about how long takes for 'after-hours experiment' -> patent landgrab -> 3$/ea. off-shelf ic
16:28 asciilifeform approx same interval b/w 'after hours' bell unix & commercial unix ws errywhere
16:29 phf nah, you're just missing a chunk of history where yamaha was releasing synthesizers first, for researchers (e.g. synclavier) and then for the peoples, e.g. the legendary DX7
16:30 asciilifeform likely ( asciilifeform -- not musician, knows subj largely from toy side )
16:31 phf dx7 was basically the first digital synthesizer that sold to general population in significant numbers
16:32 asciilifeform dunno, the 6581 circa '82 iirc. but possibly dx7 was 1st piano-shaped standalone ?
16:35 phf asciilifeform, yeah, we're using two different terms :) synthesizer as a chip, and synthesizer as a "thing that a musician can use to make music"
16:35 asciilifeform aa
16:35 asciilifeform then yes
16:37 asciilifeform << neato. post if you manage to get the gnarly toolchain needed for the sdram built
16:37 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 16:19:18 signpost: subj of FPGAs, my two arrived.
16:38 * asciilifeform not had time to attempt, but expects over9000 dep hell
16:39 phf mos is a PSG "programmable sound generator", which is your classical "introduction to digital signal" sound chip. you have noise, a bunch of waveforms and a bunch of envolopes. at the channel and resolution of hardware at the time you basically can produce that oldschool chiptune sound
16:39 asciilifeform phf: correct. came with 2dozen registers where had to diddle in realtime to actually play sumthing musiclike
16:40 phf fm synthesis is a significantly large number of those basic elements, combined in a particular way to provide a good enough approximation of real world sounds to make the result appealing to general pop
16:40 asciilifeform (could, interestingly, ~read~'em too, and do simple feedback)
16:40 asciilifeform right, was no question of 'resemble acoustic instruments' with 6581 (tho coupla people managed to do recognizable human voice, eating 100% of cpu)
16:41 asciilifeform (recall e.g. c64 'mission impossible', 'stay a while, stay forever!' intro)
16:41 phf meanwhile dx7 had its own chip
16:43 asciilifeform nifty
16:43 * asciilifeform owns a 'roland mt32' (plugged into msdos box) where used anuther 'last gasp before wavetables' period tech, subtractive synthesis
16:45 asciilifeform phf: interesting link btw; had nfi it had e.g. ripple-carry adder
16:46 asciilifeform also asciilifeform entirely mistakenly assumed that yamaha's fm ics were hybrid digital-analogue, with the sines produced via voltage-controlled oscillators
16:47 asciilifeform apparently -- not, had table in rom etc
~ 36 minutes ~
17:23 crtdaydreams re:fpga the icestorm creator's webshit appears to be hacked?
17:26 crtdaydreams or mebbe not, wtf
17:30 * crtdaydreams wish could 'unsee' d00ds twitter page
17:34 crtdaydreams yeha doods webshit defo hacked and shilling btc casino
17:34 crtdaydreams had to double take after looking at twatter
17:35 phf shoulda used mp-wp
17:35 crtdaydreams top kek
17:36 crtdaydreams twatter ftr
17:37 phf yah, i got curious how bad it could be, i've paid a dear price
17:41 crtdaydreams
17:45 signpost woof.
17:47 crtdaydreams I don't trust any src from this person to be untampered with, considering they seem unable to secure a machine that serves html opposed to an entire development toolchain.
17:50 phf crtdaydreams, i don't know why you had to misgender her, her pronunce are clearly identified in her twitter about and it's not they/them. it's 2022 and we still have to have that conversation!
17:50 shinohai lol I haven't checked logs of poor alf's irc in so long didn't notice this until now unpx
17:50 dulapbot (asciilifeform) 2022-10-21 d4: shinohai:
17:51 crtdaydreams phf: s/they/it/
17:51 crtdaydreams check & m8
17:53 phf << thank you, lord, for reminding me that your way is true, etc.
17:53 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 17:45:09 signpost: woof.
17:59 signpost at this point yurp falling to islam would be a vast improvement.
17:59 phf i think that might be an american expat
18:00 phf because there's a handful of tweets (i'm down the rabbit hole) of interacting with transphobic austrian medical services written in a way that seem to imply being an outsider
18:01 signpost oh, sorry austria. carry on!
18:03 * signpost has been browsing the "detrans" folks lately too.
18:03 signpost it's sad stuff, woke parents/teachers/etc pushing the kids into the castration cult.
18:04 signpost makes me wonder whether there's a mechanism which *WILL* impose a filter upon reproduction no matter how unthreatening the environment becomes.
18:04 signpost a filter will be supplied.
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~
19:05 unpx <<< 51
19:05 dulapbot Logged on 2022-11-02 14:30:19 unpx[asciilifeform|busybot]: An looking at that same exact table I cannot unsee the order of that polynomial being 52
19:12 asciilifeform << lol!
19:12 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 17:34:06 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: yeha doods webshit defo hacked and shilling btc casino
19:14 asciilifeform shithub has the sores ( which was always a gigantic ball of py3 btw, and if anyone wants old vers plox to say )
19:16 asciilifeform the alternative is fwiw the vendor's closed turd (in which case no reason not to use xilinx's, they sell 20x larger chips); or 'write own'
19:17 asciilifeform if go with choice 2 or 3, also includes 'write own sdram and ethernet' etc
19:17 * asciilifeform at one time tried to write sdram controller, from waveforms pictured in the datashits. not got far, didn't have the uninterrupted 3+yrs this job needed
19:20 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: not necessarily hacked, btw -- domain expir'd
19:21 signpost she has a new domain; old one is deadnaming!!1!11
19:21 asciilifeform lol!
19:21 * asciilifeform has nfi if even same meatsack, not as if previous version had pgp sigs
19:22 asciilifeform 'today you play jazz, tomorrow you sell the motherland'(tm)(r)(sovoklul)
19:24 asciilifeform << outcome of swallowing could easily end up 'trans-islam' (kosher per shia!) neh
19:24 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 17:59:23 signpost: at this point yurp falling to islam would be a vast improvement.
19:24 signpost sure, standard admonitions against sticking your dick in crazy apply.
19:26 * signpost meanwhile over here working sbcl's lockless atomic ops into oc encoder
19:26 asciilifeform neato
19:26 signpost I'm going to need to find a prng that is cheap to re-seed, because that's the bottleneck in both py and lisp
19:27 signpost (not surprising)
19:27 asciilifeform signpost: try marsaglia
19:27 signpost ty! will look into it.
19:28 asciilifeform << main 'filter' is 100+yo by nao -- if you aint a farmer or 'nobility', children are expensive pets, rather than +ev workforce. so trend to logical conclusion.
19:28 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 18:04:33 signpost: makes me wonder whether there's a mechanism which *WILL* impose a filter upon reproduction no matter how unthreatening the environment becomes.
19:28 signpost see also georgia guidestones, yep
19:29 phf сегодня ты играешь треш, а завтра бабу свою съешь
19:29 asciilifeform signpost: recently found out that partizans dynamited'em
19:29 asciilifeform phf: aaha
19:29 signpost re: oc, also need to chop into many simple-bit-vectors rather than sitting all blocks down into one large bit-vector
19:30 asciilifeform signpost: can one easily invoke mmap from sbcl ? ( expect that could, if only via ffi )
19:30 signpost sbcl's fast bit ops (xor in this case) can't be run quickly over displaced arrays, unfortunately.
19:30 asciilifeform aa displaced
19:30 signpost believe so, yeah
19:31 signpost this prototype's all in memory, but will need to move to mmap or other suitable file interaction means
19:33 signpost phf: I nibble on her time to time but so far haven't torn off a bite.
19:35 phf asciilifeform, which reminds me that i know a girl who works for the ministry of culture, and she got a call for a laundromat, and she said "no, i'm sorry, this is a wrong phone number" and hung up. every time we drink she brings it up as the biggest regret of her life
19:39 asciilifeform lol
19:42 * asciilifeform wunders how sumbody goes from 'let's painfully reverse & map out fpga and write verilog synth' to this, but not comes up with any hypothesis other than phf's
19:42 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 17:36:25 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: twatter ftr
19:42 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 15:37:18 phf[awt]: and the whole "biplar lisp programmer" has nothing to do with lisp machine world, and more to do with the fact that by the time that meme appears most people who still write code are insane (or at least most vocal ones, the xah lees and the naggums)
~ 1 hours 57 minutes ~
21:39 shinohai jfc the nightmares that twitter link induces. Imma have to go stick my face in some snatch RIGHT NOW to remove that atrocity from my memory.
21:39 shinohai be back tomorrow
~ 1 hours 27 minutes ~
23:07 crtdaydreams << dun make sense, site itself still links to fpga stuff and shithub links to site
23:07 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 19:20:43 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: not necessarily hacked, btw -- domain expir'd
23:12 crtdaydreams x << Another one for the collection... (no offence to the poles)
23:12 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 19:14:27 asciilifeform[6]: shithub has the sores ( which was always a gigantic ball of py3 btw, and if anyone wants old vers plox to say )
23:12 crtdaydreams << Another one for the collection... (no offence to the poles)
23:12 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 19:14:27 asciilifeform[6]: shithub has the sores ( which was always a gigantic ball of py3 btw, and if anyone wants old vers plox to say )
23:12 crtdaydreams argh
23:15 crtdaydreams asciilifeform: (I would like the old vers plox, tarred and signed preferrably)
23:25 crtdaydreams This raises the Q; how shiny?
23:26 crtdaydreams Bare minimum is an audit (curious if ascii or anyone else has read da sauce)
23:29 crtdaydreams only relevant sauce in question atm
23:29 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: asciilifeform neither audited it nor intends to , is elephantine
23:29 crtdaydreams *and
23:30 crtdaydreams asciilifeform: intend to use proprietary binturds?
23:31 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: at one time used xilinx's (for e.g. FG) but not intending to again
23:32 asciilifeform crtdaydreams: if you think about it, there aint a meaningful attack vector against fpga proggy ( author of boobytrap has nfi what you intend to put and where )
23:32 asciilifeform concern is moar re 'does the synth tool rm -rf /' etc
23:32 asciilifeform sooo run it on unnetworked box.
23:32 crtdaydreams ^
23:33 crtdaydreams tru
23:36 asciilifeform fwiw, sha256:dcf78fbe525887f5e8c363a8039ffd5f00fd23b5127b5f0f86eae4b9b743ce5f
23:36 * asciilifeform aint aboutta sign it, is steaming pile which made ~0 effort to read
23:36 asciilifeform read it yerself.
23:37 crtdaydreams ty
23:37 asciilifeform np
23:38 asciilifeform the thing is a reversing tool; the pertinent proggy is 'yosys'
23:38 asciilifeform ( by same ex-human fwiw )
23:39 asciilifeform the ver on asciilifeform's box is 0.7+259
23:39 asciilifeform circa '16.
23:43 asciilifeform << indeed, not noticed (apparently in sidebar)
23:43 bitbot Logged on 2022-11-02 23:07:03 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: << dun make sense, site itself still links to fpga stuff and shithub links to site
23:43 asciilifeform so pwned.
23:43 * asciilifeform must bbl
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