Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-01-07 | 2022-01-09 →
00:02 signpost something *like* lightning doesn't even seem like a bad thing, just didn't need to be built atop segwit.
00:02 billymg signpost: btw it's weird that we aren't peered even though i entered your info, but not that weird since asciilifeform and awt are still the only users i've been able to peer directly with
00:02 billymg despite having tried with everyone else in here
00:03 signpost do you have more than one party in this state in your pest wot?
00:03 signpost if so probably that bug I found
00:04 billymg what do you mean by 'more than one party in this state'?
00:04 billymg as in, users that i have at and key entries but somehow don't peer directly?
00:04 signpost yeah
00:04 billymg yeah, everyone except asciilifeform and awt
00:04 signpost blatta currently thinks these are duplicate names
00:06 billymg which are duplicates?
00:06 signpost any which have not yet received packets, if there is more than one name that has not.
00:06 signpost lemme get you the line to hax, sec
00:06 billymg (sorry i must have missed the earlier discussion of this bug, and possibly a thread the bot didn't pick up)
00:12 billymg re: lightning on top of segwit, yeah, it's unfortunate, but i figure it can be used the way one carries cash in their wallet, i.e. never more than what they would feel comfortable losing
00:13 signpost billymg: here's a draft patch
00:13 signpost I wont sign because awt may want to refactor this in another way, but it fixes the bug.
00:19 whaack billymg: had not seen the dominical bitcoin project yet, but i have heard that bitcoin beach is a bit of a disaster, specifically i heard that a common wallet (name escapes me) that they (i.e. the people who style themselves as bitcoin ambassadors) set people up with lots people's coins. whether that was because of user er
00:19 billymg alright, lemme try this out, brb one sec
00:20 whaack the drag-everyone-we-can-into-bitcoin mentality does more harm then good
00:21 signpost chivo
00:21 whaack signpost: that was the one
00:22 whaack something like ln ==== deedbot wallet
00:22 signpost to take the other side, somebody's got to make the move toward practical use.
00:26 billymg without every food cart, bnb, hardware store, etc. etc. accepting btc then the only way to use it is to go through an enemy controlled chokepoint first
00:26 signpost sure, and without transiting enemy territory no new nation was ever born
00:28 billymg sending lighting sats to fruit vendor is still using enemy territory though (fritz phone and cell tower), it's just fragmenting and distributing the activity enough to increase their cost of engagement
00:28 billymg lightning*
00:29 whaack but the angle is not to attack small targets like jorge's fruit stand, it's to be able to get big suppliers to accept large transactions for btc, the former just results in a lulzfest
00:29 signpost yup, I'm making no defense of lightning, though there are ideas in it that aren't casually dismissable, could in principle exist atop trb too, without segwit.
00:29 billymg btw, i'm on the patched version now. will i need to redo the peering steps to fix my AT?
00:30 signpost maybe, not sure. give it a try
00:30 signpost whaack: I dunno man, this cynical view is not one I share.
00:30 signpost like I said, have to start somewhere shitty.
00:30 asciilifeform signpost: iirc orig scheme in 'lightning' (naturally implemented via various prbisms) was to 'hawala' b/w 2 noades to save on tx fees.
00:31 asciilifeform (similar to how national banks do not often actually move gold bricks but instead keep tally)
00:32 asciilifeform i.e. rather like a vast rube goldberg attempt at clone of signpost's walletron
00:32 signpost yep, fund a multisig addy and ratchet forward txn that adjust balance of same back to originators, without broadcasting txn
00:32 signpost anyone broadcasts, "channel" is done
00:32 signpost this doesn't need any of the other piled-on shit
00:33 asciilifeform signpost: come to think of it, potential fyootoor pest knob
00:33 asciilifeform e.g. 'iou'
00:33 asciilifeform doesn't need to involve trb directly
00:33 signpost indeed!
00:33 asciilifeform simply needs 2 peers to trust ea. other enuff to eventually settle acct when asked
00:34 * asciilifeform not 100% certain whether it'd win over what he already does w/ isp customers informally, say
~ 18 minutes ~
00:52 billymg ok, i think i'm back in
00:53 * whaack hears you loud and clear through peers signpost and asciilifeform
00:58 billymg !. uptime
00:58 bitbot billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m
00:58 billymg boo
00:59 asciilifeform hm i've an at entry for it nao
01:00 asciilifeform billymg: maybe need to set its 'cut' to something higher than 3
01:00 billymg oh, wth, i see it in the log:
01:00 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 00:58:44 bitbot: billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m
01:00 billymg but i didn't see it in my console
01:00 asciilifeform me neither
01:01 asciilifeform !. uptime
01:01 bitbot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 3m
01:01 asciilifeform nope
01:01 asciilifeform shows in billymg's log but not in asciilifeform's console
01:02 billymg is the 'cut' value a startup flag?
01:02 billymg the bounces cutoff, right?
01:02 asciilifeform aha
01:02 asciilifeform but apparently cmd not yet implemented in blatta
01:03 asciilifeform oh hm
01:03 asciilifeform it's a 'knob', 'max_bounces'
01:03 asciilifeform try /quote knob max_bounces 5
01:04 billymg i'd have to do this while connected to the bot's station though
01:04 asciilifeform right
01:05 asciilifeform (or via sqlite console)
01:05 asciilifeform it's in 'knobs' table
01:05 billymg ah neat
01:05 billymg seems easier in this case
01:06 asciilifeform come to think of it, max_bounces wouldn't explain why bot logs but we aint seeing its echos
01:06 asciilifeform !. uptime
01:06 bitbot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 8m
01:06 * asciilifeform set his own max_bounces to 5 and still aint seeing
01:06 billymg right, was thinking the same thing, wouldn't need any bounces since we're peered directly with it
01:06 asciilifeform for that matter, bounce distance of asciilifeform and bitbot is 1
01:06 asciilifeform aha
01:07 * asciilifeform sets own back to 3
01:07 billymg anyone else here see bitbot's echos in their console?
01:07 asciilifeform nfi what's going on there
01:07 * asciilifeform suspects dedupe bug
01:07 billymg btw for the above thread that got lost if anyone wants to send it over in a paste i'll manually add it to the log
01:08 billymg seemed like we were having a good discussion
01:08 asciilifeform for that matter may explain the thing w/ mod6's station similarly
01:08 asciilifeform i.e.a dedupe bug which somehow removes the ~last~ copy of a msg
01:13 billymg i'll have to look at the station's logs a little later, about to sit down to dinner
01:13 asciilifeform aite
01:13 * asciilifeform also bbl
01:13 billymg re-added and keyed signpost with the patched, will see if that works
01:20 signpost billymg: give AT signpost a try
01:21 signpost so far doesn't appear I am receiving packets from you
01:24 billymg signpost: same here, and that's the same address i have in the AT: "signpost no packets received from this address"
01:25 billymg bot appears properly peered asciilifeform now at least:
01:25 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 01:21:07 signpost[asciilifeform|billymg]: so far doesn't appear I am receiving packets from you
01:26 whaack !. uptime
01:26 bitbot whaack[asciilifeform|billymg]: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 28m
01:26 billymg whaack: do you see the echo in your console? i only see it in the log
01:26 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 01:26:09 bitbot: whaack[asciilifeform|billymg]: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 28m
01:28 signpost billymg: maybe send me your ip and port, and I'll try your direction?
01:28 signpost not sure wtf
01:29 billymg
01:31 billymg signpost ^
01:31 signpost popped it in
01:32 billymg still got that as hearsay
01:32 signpost yeah, and I'm receiving you as hearsay. however I do see your IP in my logs.
01:35 signpost hm
01:35 signpost AT says I still haven't received packets from you
01:35 signpost billymg: firewall on your end by chance? my logs look like I'm sending to you, but not receiving
01:35 billymg i have the same issue with shinohai jonsykkel PeterL
01:35 billymg i've only been able to peer with asciilifeform awt and bitbot
01:35 billymg i've only been able to peer with asciilifeform awt and bitbot
01:36 billymg signpost: i never configured any extra firewall on this box, it's just the standard dulap
01:36 billymg not sure if it's got something configured by default that could be causing issues though
01:48 whaack <<-- i don't see the echo, i only see the msg in the log
01:48 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 01:26:09 whaack[asciilifeform|billymg]: !. uptime
01:53 billymg !. uptime
01:53 bitbot billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 3m
01:53 billymg there it is
01:54 billymg earlier i only restarted the bot's pest station, to peer it with asciilifeform. i didn't restart the bot itself
01:55 billymg in theory that *shouldn't* have had an effect on the bot
01:58 billymg the bot's logs showed the normal series of 'connecting' 'connection refused' until finally a 'connected' when the pest station came back up
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
03:05 awt wow that unpeer bug is nasty
03:06 awt leaves orphaned keys in the db
03:09 awt issue was mod6's clock was off
03:10 mod6 :}
03:10 awt welcome mod6
03:10 mod6 Thank you awt, much appreciated. I'll come back tomorrow, add a few more peers & keys. Cheers!
~ 16 minutes ~
03:26 asciilifeform welcome to pestnet, mod6 !
03:27 asciilifeform awt: good catch re: clock. this prolly oughta be part of 'pre-flight checklist' for new station setup.
03:27 asciilifeform (once we have actual docs..)
03:28 asciilifeform oddly enuff asciilifeform's station still shows 'no packets received...' for mod6 in AT
03:28 asciilifeform currently seeing him via mod6[awt|jonsykkel|billymg]
03:28 awt actually mine too hrm
03:29 awt although I'm getting messages directly from mod6
03:29 asciilifeform per my station's AT, apparently i've not received any
03:29 asciilifeform (unless the AT timestamp thing is buggier than i thought)
03:30 awt seems buggier than you thought since it's not updating for me and I definitely received messages from him
03:30 asciilifeform this is even stranger
03:30 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 03:10:02 mod6[asciilifeform]: :}
03:31 asciilifeform i.e. bitbot indicates having received a mod6 msg from asciilifeform
03:31 asciilifeform then again may well correspond to my mod6[awt] | :}
03:31 awt possibly not updating the timestamp at all since 9983
03:31 asciilifeform so doesn't contradict the observation that asciilifeform's station still not received msg from mod6
03:32 * asciilifeform goes to restart pestron, maybe is a peculiar wedge state..
03:32 * asciilifeform back
03:33 asciilifeform still 'no packets received..' re mod6
03:35 * asciilifeform to bed soon, has to meet construction folx at new pad in the wee hours
03:36 asciilifeform !. uptime
03:36 bitbot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 1h 45m
03:36 asciilifeform heh at least this worx nao
03:39 awt ok fixed the timestamp update issue locally
03:39 awt now updates on every received message including rubbish
03:39 asciilifeform awt: asciilifeform was thinking, the [x|y|z] thing prolly oughta behave slightly differently: should only count the peers who gave same (min(all copies)) bounce# of the msg
03:39 asciilifeform otherwise in fact misleading
03:40 asciilifeform does this make sense to you?
03:40 * awt scratches head
03:41 asciilifeform the orig. purpose of that thing was to try and show how many peers may be relaying an authentic (i.e. immediate) copy of msg
03:41 awt ah ok hm
03:42 asciilifeform whereas atm you can have the case where only 1 in fact received directly from $peer, but some arbitrary subset of your wot is relaying an n-th bounce copy from that one back to you
03:42 * asciilifeform will update spec later
03:43 asciilifeform this was prompted by seeing mod6[awt|jonsykkel|billymg] while afaik jonsykkel not yet peered w/ mod6
03:43 awt yes this makes sense. so exclude handles that relayed with higher than the lowest number of bounces
03:43 asciilifeform aha
03:43 asciilifeform if awt agrees that this makes sense, i'ma amend the spec (later this wknd)
03:44 awt actually yes now the whole idea makes more sense
03:44 asciilifeform a++!
03:44 asciilifeform such observations are made possible by having an actual draft proggy! ty again for baking it, awt
03:45 asciilifeform prolly this aint the last mechanism that'll need tuning prompted by actual field tests.
03:45 awt con gusto!
03:48 asciilifeform overall helps to remember that a msg can take 'winding' path from orig -> dest
03:48 asciilifeform (which, depending on what the default 'cut' ends up being in later pestrons, can be quite long)
03:49 asciilifeform the current '3' asciilifeform pulled outta own arse
03:49 * asciilifeform to bed
~ 15 minutes ~
04:05 whaack <-- makes sense, i agree this should be added.
04:05 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 03:43:07 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: yes this makes sense. so exclude handles that relayed with higher than the lowest number of bounces
04:05 whaack asciilifeform and awt: this proggy is super neat, thanks for writing the spec/draft
04:16 whaack also awt i have to check this, but i think the NOTICE messages being sent out by blatta are ill formatted to the irc spec
04:17 * whaack hits the hay
~ 8 hours 29 minutes ~
12:47 asciilifeform << yw!
12:47 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 04:05:37 whaack[asciilifeform|billymg]: asciilifeform and awt: this proggy is super neat, thanks for writing the spec/draft
~ 2 hours 27 minutes ~
15:14 whaack morning asciilifeform
15:15 whaack mod6: welcome!! do my messages reach you?
~ 22 minutes ~
15:37 * billymg waves to mod6
~ 32 minutes ~
16:10 shinohai Buenas dias #pest
16:15 awt gm
16:17 shinohai oh hai awt how goes?
16:21 awt Going pretty good shinohai! Trying to figure out how to incorporate some bone broth into my breakfast.
16:23 * shinohai is incorporating moar espresso into his breakfast right now .....
16:27 awt nice. caffeiine is the best drug.
16:28 billymg bone broth, nice. i need to start doing that
16:30 billymg i added raw eggs to my diet about a month ago (12 to 18 per day), total game changer. much more energy for lifting, faster recovery
16:30 whaack billymg: have you heard of grass fed costa rica?
16:31 whaack i don't really cook myself anymore so i'm not using them, but they deliver quality meat and all meat related products (probably some type of bone broth) right to your door
16:34 whaack signpost: what tool did you use to measure the mineral quality of your water?
16:37 whaack awt: do you take collagen supplements? i've started doing that, as well with magnesium, and my hand pain has been reduced tremendously (not necessarily because of the collagen/magnesium, of course, but perhaps..)
16:46 awt whaack: yes I do
16:47 billymg whaack: i have not, what's that?
16:47 awt I believe it helped me heal from a rather bad hand injury last year
16:47 billymg lol, should really read more than the one line with the mention before responding
16:48 billymg whaack: these guys?
16:48 billymg ah, yeah, i actually remember seeing one of the twitter bitcoiners mention this one
16:48 whaack billymg: yeah i'm pretty sure that's them
16:49 whaack yup, it's quite popular with the bitcoin twitter people down in S.T.
16:50 whaack i ate some of their meat, it was delicious, we even blind tested rib eye with some decent auto mercado meat and grass fed was the clear winner
16:51 billymg yeah, i stopped getting steaks from auto mercado a while ago, really not that great. first switched to pricemart but now getting from an importer (US beef)
16:51 billymg but would prefer local, so i should try these guys
16:52 whaack absolutely would recommend
16:52 whaack and looks like they have bone broth delivery as well as per their fb page
16:52 billymg good deal
16:53 awt that's a hell of a lot of eggs billymg
16:54 billymg indeed
16:54 awt I haven't even been able to find ribeye cuts at automercado. don't know what they're called in spanish.
16:55 billymg ojo de bif sometimes
16:55 whaack it's the literal translation iirc... ojo de costilla
16:55 awt oh ok makes sense
16:58 billymg ah, spelled bife wrong,
16:58 billymg as the article says most people will understand "ribeye" too
17:01 awt is cola de lomo a thing? I had a cut called something like that last trip and it was really good
17:06 billymg i haven't heard of it but image search turned up some tasty looking dishes
~ 2 hours 16 minutes ~
19:22 mod6 hi, wow. lot to catch up on here. i'm currently only peer'd with awt/thimbronion. so that may be why you all aren't seing things directly.
19:22 mod6 < whaack[awt]> mod6: welcome!! do my messages reach you? << if you sent me a dm, then no. but I did see this line in here, ofc.
19:23 mod6 got a few chores to do here. will be back in ~1 hour and can go through it closer & get more peers added. thanks! :]
~ 23 minutes ~
19:46 signpost << crappy little total-dissolved-solids meter that came with my "zero filters"
19:46 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 16:34:04 whaack[asciilifeform|billymg]: signpost: what tool did you use to measure the mineral quality of your water?
19:47 signpost << I take collagen every morning as part of a smoothie, has whey protein also, and "athletic greens"
19:47 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 16:37:13 whaack[asciilifeform]: awt: do you take collagen supplements? i've started doing that, as well with magnesium, and my hand pain has been reduced tremendously (not necessarily because of the collagen/magnesium, of course, but perhaps..)
19:48 signpost I also dump a hell of a lot of cacao in there, because I'm a glutton, and also somethingsomething antioxidants
19:49 signpost anecdotally, I have zero RSI or other joint issues, no health issues of any kind. lots of different things are probably contributing to that.
19:50 * signpost works out some, but oughta moar.
19:51 signpost << nothing beats freshly dead, no matter what food one's discussing.
19:51 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 16:51:56 billymg: but would prefer local, so i should try these guys
19:52 signpost at least in terms of health, lol. plenty of long-since-died items are good fun.
19:53 awt signpost: been reading a book called Deep Nutrition that says exactly that
19:53 signpost might check that out
19:53 * signpost figures one's tongue is also mighty tuned, will tell you what to eat if you pay attention.
20:04 billymg awt: i have that book sitting on a shelf somewhere too, haven't gotten to it yet. bought it along with Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, which was enlightening. published in the 1930s, studies indigenous tribes around the world and finds those on their nati
20:06 billymg also includes data on those who grew up on their native diets then switched to the white man's diet (canned fruits, white flour, lots of sugar) later in life -- immediately start getting cavities
20:06 * mod6 waves at billymg[awt]
20:06 mod6 < asciilifeform[awt]> welcome to pestnet, mod6 ! << ty ty!
20:07 billymg reading stuff like that and knowing that my parents never stood a chance given the "food pyramid" and other socialist propaganda enrages to no end
20:10 mod6 asciilifeform: ok, re-peer'd and re-key'd with you on my end. also sent you a dm, plz to verify.
20:13 signpost welcome mod6!
20:14 mod6 howdy signpost o7
20:23 signpost mod6:
20:23 * mod6 gets
20:28 mod6 Ok signpost, I think we're good.
20:30 signpost forgot a step on my side
20:31 signpost I think that should be it. send another msg please?
20:31 mod6 Sure, one sec.
20:31 signpost yep, got that one directly, woot
20:31 mod6 Great, thanks!
20:31 mod6 This pest is awesome.
20:34 awt billymg: I have the degeneration book as well, haven't yet read.
20:34 awt billymg: yeah boomers really got rolled
~ 32 minutes ~
21:07 signpost fwiw nmap says asciilifeform awt and billymg have UDP ports properly open, and so do I, but my station doesn't receive from them.
21:07 signpost checked myself also
21:08 billymg signpost: who are you receiving from?
21:08 signpost hm. you know what? your message just said it came from awt.
21:08 signpost so perhaps the output of AT is wrong
21:08 signpost I also see messages from asciilifeform above that appear to have arrived directly
21:08 signpost not sure wtf atm, just putting these observations in the log
21:09 billymg i'm checking the date on my pest station box now, currently: Sat Jan 8 21:09:24 -00 2022
21:09 * signpost would chuckle if for some of these a hop through an intermediary is actually faster than a direct shot
21:10 billymg this is probably a stupid question, but how does the time synchronization requirement work with different timezones?
21:10 billymg the req that pest stations must be within 15 mintues of each other
21:12 signpost heh, timezone bugs are never a stupid question
21:12 mod6 hear hear
21:13 signpost it appears that blatta mostly uses time.time(), but there's at least one call in, looking at it
21:13 signpost that one does return local time, and is a "timezone-naive" type
21:13 signpost confirmed locally in a pyrepl
21:21 signpost billymg: doesn't appear to be the issue between our stations, since your machine is set to utc
21:21 signpost awt: perhaps something to fix though, to use instead datetime.utcnow() in
21:23 signpost (time.time() always gives utc epoch, so this can otherwise be mismatched)
21:33 billymg just tried peering with mod6, also no luck
21:33 billymg though looking at logs it seems at first glance like it's working properly:
21:34 mod6 fwiw my clock looks spot on
21:35 signpost yeah, had no issue peering with mod6
21:35 signpost billymg: did you try adding that patch I made for is_duplicate?
21:36 billymg signpost: yup, been running that since last night
21:36 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 00:29:43 billymg: btw, i'm on the patched version now. will i need to redo the peering steps to fix my AT?
21:40 signpost head scratcher
21:41 billymg i'm going to try creating an file with everyone's peer info, blow away the db, and restart blatta
21:41 signpost maybe save a copy of the deeb for awt
21:41 billymg ah, good point
21:42 mod6 just holler if anyone needs any of my log info or DB. will hand over asap.
21:44 awt signpost: at is lying rn. never updates the updated_at field
21:44 signpost ah ok
21:46 awt you can remove the if around that code in update_at and it will fix
21:48 signpost ah yeah, the one inside the try block?
21:51 signpost yeah, that added a timestamp for everyone but billymg
21:51 signpost so it seems like there's indeed an issue with our peering
21:54 whaack mod6: added you as a peer
21:57 mod6 weird. my blatta went down.
21:57 mod6 restarted with DEBUG log level.
21:59 mod6 << Ok cool. Let me check my settings over here.
21:59 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 21:54:54 whaack[asciilifeform|billymg]: mod6: added you as a peer
22:04 mod6 blatta crashed again, but this time I captured the st & log snip.
22:07 mod6 Ok, crashed again when I pasted the link in here: ;; this line in particular:
22:07 bitbot Logged on 2022-01-08 22:04:22 mod6[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|billymg]: blatta crashed again, but this time I captured the st & log snip.
22:09 mod6 Ok, didn't puke that time. The first time was kinda weird though - I do have a peer setup with whaak, and a shared key. But I did not have an addy in my AT table for him, yet. So maybe that was it. But the error says 'unknown handle or handle with no key', which didn't seem accurate.
22:09 awt mod6: I suspect you have a badly formatted address in your at - perhaps missing a port
22:10 mod6 yeah, I think so, awt. just writing in as I see stuff. hope it's helpful.
22:11 whaack yeah mod6, it apperas we are not peered
22:12 * whaack off to surf
22:15 mod6 Hmm. Ok hit something else while I wasn't even using blatta;
22:16 mod6 I gotta run for a bit, I'll check back. Thanks all!
22:31 billymg ok, i tried restarting with a fresh db and all peers entered manually in an file
22:32 awt mod6 you may need to inspect your at using sqlite3 on the db to find the bad address
22:33 billymg ^ got that awt msg directly
22:33 signpost billymg: still seeing ya hop through peers
22:33 billymg ah, damn, same here for signpost
22:38 awt billymg: perhaps another approach would be to repeer one by one and make sure each peering works before adding more
~ 20 minutes ~
22:59 billymg awt: yeah, it's just strange that i was able to peer with you and asciilifeform
22:59 billymg i think i asked already but is your pest station also in asciilifeform's rack by any chance?
~ 22 minutes ~
23:22 awt billymg: no it's in CR
23:23 billymg that's what i thought
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