| 00:15 |
cazalla |
mircea_popescu> except for me. i'm watching zoey monroe being fake-gangraped and am all zen about all things <<< ya like the blondes eh |
| 00:27 |
BingoBoingo |
!up ascii_in_bed |
| 00:28 |
ascii_in_bed |
ty |
| 00:30 |
ascii_in_bed |
funny how this particular pipe is ddosproof |
| 00:30 |
mircea_popescu |
cazalla she's brunette now. |
| 00:31 |
mircea_popescu |
ascii_in_bed it is ? you kept going off earlier,. |
| 00:31 |
mircea_popescu |
thestringpuller hm ? |
| 00:31 |
ascii_in_bed |
unplugged it earlier |
| 00:32 |
mircea_popescu |
ascii_in_bed so whatcha got over there ? ebola ? |
| 00:32 |
ascii_in_bed |
rather - switched off, toy computer |
| 00:32 |
ascii_in_bed |
flu variant |
| 00:32 |
ascii_in_bed |
mostly done |
| 00:33 |
mircea_popescu |
http://construimimperii.ro/despre-daniel-zarnescu << bwahahaha. |
| 00:33 |
assbot |
Construim ImperiiDespre Daniel Zarnescu - Construim Imperii ... ( http://bit.ly/1wmbWPB ) |
| 00:33 |
mircea_popescu |
"Sunt fondatorul uneia din cele mai mari retele de bloguri de nisa din Romania (Stepout Media), cu siteuri precum: www.construimimperii.ro," i am the founder of one of the biggest niche networks in romania, with sites such as webuildempires |
| |
↖ |
| 00:34 |
mircea_popescu |
the 20yo makemoneyasleep zombie crowd was funny in 2009, will stay funny in 2019 |
| 00:34 |
ascii_in_bed |
if lives. |
| 00:34 |
BingoBoingo |
ascii_in_bed: Done as in nearly abated, of done as in the virus successfully poetteringized the meat. |
| 00:35 |
ascii_in_bed |
nearly done with bed |
| 00:44 |
ben_vulpes |
mats: today i discovered that docker images have a 10GB limit unless you specify otherwise with dm.whatever options on the command line for the docker daemon |
| 00:44 |
ben_vulpes |
may you not be bitten like i was |
| 00:45 |
mats |
i see |
| 00:46 |
mircea_popescu |
magic numbers dude. so fucking important. |
| 00:46 |
mircea_popescu |
what would happen if some idiot somewhere didn't constantly put magic numbers into everything! |
| 00:47 |
mircea_popescu |
ben_vulpes check it out, docker is like bdb, except differently named undocumented config file. |
| 00:47 |
ben_vulpes |
well /etc/default/docker but look at it through whatever lens you like baws |
| 00:48 |
ben_vulpes |
'tis documented in devicemapper. |
| 00:48 |
ben_vulpes |
oh and it's not a *hard* limit, just a default. |
| 00:48 |
ben_vulpes |
but again whatever |
| |
~ 21 minutes ~ |
| 01:10 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00123759 = 1.2376 BTC [+] {3} |
| 01:16 |
cazalla |
<ben_vulpes> sports games are stories now? <<< and yet it got a bunch of retweets lol |
| 01:24 |
BingoBoingo |
http://rt.com/usa/212327-chlorine-leak-animal-evacuation/ |
| 01:24 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/12gwv1Y ) |
| 01:37 |
punkman |
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4Sm5obIYAArfPw.png:large |
| 01:37 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/12gyC61 ) |
| 01:45 |
ben_vulpes |
cazalla: retweets are qntra's metric of choice today? |
| 01:47 |
cazalla |
tbh i was getting into it, a lil' disappointed twitter is yet to unban me |
| 01:48 |
cazalla |
on it's own it's a terrible metric but i keep an eye on it just to see if people are picking up the stories qntra runs |
| 01:57 |
punkman |
;;ticker |
| 01:57 |
gribble |
Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 372.87, Best ask: 373.5, Bid-ask spread: 0.63000, Last trade: 372.87, 24 hour volume: 2874.85753656, 24 hour low: 372.85, 24 hour high: 377.5, 24 hour vwap: 375.921112973 |
| 01:59 |
punkman |
http://www.internetisshit.org/print.html |
| 01:59 |
assbot |
The internet is shit ... ( http://bit.ly/1wmAat2 ) |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
| 02:14 |
BingoBoingo |
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/04/new_york_times_propagandists_exposed_finally_the_truth_about_ukraine_and_putin_emerges/ << lulzy |
| 02:14 |
assbot |
New York Times propagandists exposed: Finally, the truth about Ukraine and Putin emerges - Salon.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1sb7MD8 ) |
| 02:15 |
mircea_popescu |
punkman well yes, "fairness" as misunderstood by the butthurt parade is going against a hard limit of the universe. |
| 02:16 |
mircea_popescu |
you wanna trade, move to fucking ny. you don't wanna move to ny, stfu and snort coke or w/e they do in la. |
| 02:17 |
mircea_popescu |
BingoBoingo wait, salon is complaining about nyt propaganda ?! |
| 02:17 |
BingoBoingo |
Looks like it. |
| 02:17 |
* |
BingoBoingo waits for them to say haxxed |
| 02:18 |
BingoBoingo |
Oh qntra is #6 on google for "bitcoin bowl preview" |
| 02:19 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, "Patrick L. Smith" is making way too much of an interview with... kissinger. |
| 02:19 |
mircea_popescu |
srsly, he's still alive ? |
| 02:20 |
BingoBoingo |
I dunno he can die, lizard heritage |
| 02:21 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, salon and the derpage is entirely irrelevant to why and wherefore "we knew all along" and saw through the nuland bullshit from day one. |
| 02:22 |
mircea_popescu |
moar plowing flies, didntcha know, some anon derp working for some anon flavour of teh us propaganda has been really pulling the yoke! |
| 02:22 |
mircea_popescu |
that they don't even mention orlov in there is insulting to the russian foreign service lol. |
| 02:22 |
assbot |
Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1NWPWGY.txt ) |
| 02:22 |
BingoBoingo |
!b 2 |
| 02:23 |
cazalla |
BingoBoingo, #5 here |
| 02:23 |
BingoBoingo |
Nice cazalla |
| 02:25 |
BingoBoingo |
See this Salon ignoring Orlov thing is like the rest of the "Bitcoin Press" lapping up Bitpay spending out the ass to sponsor a bowl game while ignoring... That there's actually a game that's now going to be played with teams and stuff. |
| 02:26 |
fluffypony |
https://www.bitcoinrocket.io |
| 02:26 |
assbot |
BitCoinRocket - The official worldwide bitcoin lottery ... ( http://bit.ly/1wmI31A ) |
| 02:26 |
fluffypony |
dose graphix |
| 02:30 |
BingoBoingo |
fluffypony: Actually doesn't look that different compared to some of the 2012 era BTC sites |
| 02:30 |
mircea_popescu |
might even be a recycle |
| 02:30 |
fluffypony |
yes but this one is the "official worldwide" lottery |
| 02:31 |
mircea_popescu |
seems vaguely familiar |
| 02:31 |
mircea_popescu |
fluffypony i suppose not everyone's fortunate enough to be on the receivingend of reader's digest prizes and stuff. which is why they keep doing this firstbiggestbest thing. |
| 02:31 |
fluffypony |
lol |
| 02:32 |
mircea_popescu |
mendelbaum! mendelbaum! mendelbaum! |
| 02:32 |
mircea_popescu |
it's go time. |
| 02:32 |
fluffypony |
first official biggest only best bitcoin foundation |
| |
~ 21 minutes ~ |
| 02:54 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4132 @ 0.00050994 = 2.1071 BTC [+] |
| |
~ 36 minutes ~ |
| 03:31 |
mats |
;;seen thickasthieves |
| 03:31 |
gribble |
thickasthieves was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 weeks, 6 days, 17 hours, 14 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <ThickAsThieves> but you da boss |
| 03:31 |
mats |
i wonder what the odds are tat went and got a day job |
| 03:33 |
mats |
i remember some disagreement with the missus on the subject of day trading |
| 03:46 |
cazalla |
bit of a disagreement on trilema.com in the comments too mats |
| 03:47 |
mats |
link? |
| 03:51 |
mats |
hm, ongoing protests in berkeley |
| 03:54 |
cazalla |
mats, about a month ago, forget which article, wasn't that dramatic |
| 03:55 |
cazalla |
i'm sure they'll kiss and make up |
| |
~ 31 minutes ~ |
| 04:26 |
punkman |
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ok035/whats_to_stop_rogue_programmers_inserting/ |
| 04:26 |
assbot |
What's to stop rogue programmers inserting malicious code into Bitcoin wallet software? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1w4GfZa ) |
| 04:29 |
punkman |
"That's why I love this page http://blockchain-status.com/javascript_verifier that blockchain has. Really makes it easy to make sure what's on their github is what they are giving to users." |
| 04:29 |
assbot |
Blockchain Javascript Check ... ( http://bit.ly/1w4GBin ) |
| 04:42 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5061 @ 0.00051063 = 2.5843 BTC [+] {2} |
| 04:43 |
* |
adlai is glad to have abandoned bc.i before the shenanigans beganigans |
| |
~ 46 minutes ~ |
| 05:29 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.10607047 = 1.8032 BTC [+] {9} |
| 05:35 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 27 @ 0.1166655 = 3.15 BTC [+] {6} |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
| 05:51 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 200 @ 0.12947909 = 25.8958 BTC [+] {17} |
| |
~ 37 minutes ~ |
| 06:28 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11593 @ 0.00050479 = 5.852 BTC [-] {2} |
| 06:28 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 61 @ 0.1497374 = 9.134 BTC [+] {9} |
| |
~ 39 minutes ~ |
| 07:08 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00051723 = 10.8877 BTC [+] {4} |
| 07:19 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 32 @ 0.13668186 = 4.3738 BTC [-] {4} |
| |
~ 45 minutes ~ |
| 08:05 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1997 @ 0.00051629 = 1.031 BTC [-] |
| 08:06 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2853 @ 0.00052254 = 1.4908 BTC [+] |
| 08:14 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19064 @ 0.0005234 = 9.9781 BTC [+] {3} |
| 08:28 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5156 @ 0.00052935 = 2.7293 BTC [+] |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
| 08:44 |
cazalla |
http://qntra.net/2014/12/hashfast-asset-auction-cancelled/ |
| 08:44 |
assbot |
HashFast Asset Auction Cancelled | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8jHWD ) |
| 08:44 |
cazalla |
late here so not a big write up but seems like some lulzy shit |
| 08:45 |
scoopbot |
New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/hashfast-asset-auction-cancelled/ |
| 08:49 |
fluffypony |
what assets did they have besides the ASICs? |
| 08:50 |
cazalla |
boards and shit, which the venezuelan congressman bought |
| 08:51 |
cazalla |
at least from what i can tell, BingoBoingo maybe you are inclined to look it over a bit more, i'll take another look in the morning , zzz now |
| 08:52 |
fluffypony |
night |
| 08:54 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5518 @ 0.00120974 = 6.6753 BTC [-] {16} |
| 08:56 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 172 @ 0.10050001 = 17.286 BTC [-] {3} |
| 09:03 |
* |
punkman imagines future state of venezuela, funded by btc mining operations |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
| 09:36 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00053346 = 8.0286 BTC [+] {2} |
| 09:42 |
BingoBoingo |
!up rdymac |
| 09:48 |
rdymac |
yup? |
| 09:53 |
BingoBoingo |
http://www.wired.com/2014/12/da-bom/ |
| 09:53 |
assbot |
Turns Out the Dot-Com Bust's Worst Flops Were Actually Fantastic Ideas | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1zikOou ) |
| 09:54 |
mircea_popescu |
ahahahaha |
| 09:54 |
mircea_popescu |
let me guess, it was only because of evil republicans pushing their obsolete, meanwhile technologically-revolutionized ideas about scarcity |
| 09:54 |
mircea_popescu |
that the bubble popped ? |
| 09:57 |
BingoBoingo |
"Were still waiting for Kozmo 2.0. But theres also good reason to applaud the folks behind Flooz.com. They wanted to create their own internet-based currency, and though Flooz was a flop, bitcoin has now shown that digital currency can play huge role in the modern world." |
| 09:57 |
BingoBoingo |
"Even the Pets.com idea is looking mighty good. The basic notion that people wanted to buy pet food online and have it delivered to their homes turns out to be a sound one." |
| 09:57 |
mircea_popescu |
cazalla: mats, about a month ago, forget which article, wasn't that dramatic << http://trilema.com/2014/waroflife-swol-october-2014-statement-closing/#comment-109570 |
| 09:57 |
assbot |
WarOfLife (S.WOL), October 2014 Statement (closing) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1G76mSo ) |
| 09:57 |
mircea_popescu |
it was over swol. |
| 09:58 |
mircea_popescu |
BingoBoingo yeah, totally, because "ideas" are what matters. so what if flooz.com was roughly equivalent to reddit derps making redditcoin. IT WAS AN IDEA. |
| 09:59 |
mircea_popescu |
i'm sure all the various 19yos that had THE IDEA of you know, a bunch of naked women in your house, are spiritual forefathers to the harem. |
| 09:59 |
mircea_popescu |
fuck the arabs and so on. what, 1600s existed now ?! |
| 09:59 |
BingoBoingo |
Sure and pets.com was an idea, that could have totally worked if the thing actually was budgeted to live off of retailer profit margins instead of a VC funded money fire |
| 09:59 |
mircea_popescu |
you don't understand how ideas work. |
| 10:00 |
BingoBoingo |
Maybe I don't |
| 10:00 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, wasn't pets.com basically groupon arbitrarily limited for the pets scam only ? |
| 10:00 |
mircea_popescu |
!up Rory |
| 10:00 |
mircea_popescu |
ie, "we're fleecing the living dailights out of you for no reason, but if you assemble in large groups we'll fleece a little less ?" |
| 10:02 |
BingoBoingo |
Oh, it was a whole Amazon.com style retailer I thought |
| 10:02 |
mircea_popescu |
nope. |
| 10:02 |
mircea_popescu |
it was just a petfood seller with the odd idea of actually buying warehouses. |
| 10:03 |
mats |
gambling is a rough biz |
| 10:03 |
mircea_popescu |
to put a face on "VC funded money fire" : https://www.google.com/search?q=Ann+L.+Winblad&complete=0&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch |
| 10:03 |
assbot |
Ann L. Winblad - Google zoeken ... ( http://bit.ly/1zinzWO ) |
| 10:04 |
BingoBoingo |
Oh, the sock puppet sold for $125,000 to another startup? |
| 10:05 |
mircea_popescu |
uh ? |
| 10:06 |
jurov |
<adlai> [20141208 01:41] jurov: what happens when a coinbr account has assets but no btc when you need to charge the management fee? << for now unpaid fees just keep piling up as negative balance |
| 10:06 |
BingoBoingo |
mircea_popescu: The pets.com mascot |
| 10:07 |
adlai |
and is there an api to this thing? |
| 10:07 |
mircea_popescu |
lol i had no idea. |
| 10:08 |
mircea_popescu |
but since we're doing "faces of Wasted Money" http://dondodge.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/21/005.jpg check out the graduating class of awkward 2010. |
| 10:08 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1G77WDy ) |
| 10:08 |
BingoBoingo |
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=881511.0 << lulzy |
| 10:08 |
assbot |
Gauge of interest - looking to raise 25 BTC in January for inventory ... ( http://bit.ly/1G77TYq ) |
| 10:11 |
mircea_popescu |
" Very little overhead - because hardware sales is just a necessary part in this service industry." mkay, very logics in this verbiage. |
| 10:11 |
mircea_popescu |
;;seen jdany |
| 10:11 |
gribble |
I have not seen jdany. |
| 10:11 |
mircea_popescu |
hm. |
| 10:12 |
mircea_popescu |
Oct 13 04:07:13 *jdany has quit () heh i knew i saw the name. |
| 10:12 |
BingoBoingo |
Amazing how the forum dreams have shrank from million BTC datacenters to, pls halp my store. |
| 10:12 |
assbot |
AMAZING COMPANY! |
| 10:13 |
mircea_popescu |
;;seen jdany_ |
| 10:13 |
gribble |
jdany_ was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 43 minutes, and 1 second ago: <jdany_> I figured you get fed up, dumped and bailed |
| 10:13 |
mircea_popescu |
there we go. |
| 10:13 |
* |
adlai has grand dreams but keeps his mouth shut, mostly |
| 10:17 |
mircea_popescu |
the pets.com thing, incidentally, was exactly opposite to bitcoin : wildly popular with the something awful centered libtard crowd. |
| 10:18 |
BingoBoingo |
Sure. They figured if pets.com could get dollars dumped on them, any idea could get them paid. On the other hand Bitcoin even in the earliest days supposed people STFU and get in line. |
| 10:19 |
danielpbarron |
is 15% monthly gains considered a conservative estimate or what? are the tardstalkers still so gullible? |
| 10:21 |
mircea_popescu |
danielpbarron these numbers are i suspect based in biology. they're not about to change. |
| 10:22 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-532341266-gane-dinero-mientras-duerme-_JM |
| 10:22 |
assbot |
Gane Dinero Mientras Duerme - $ 28,00 en MercadoLibre ... ( http://bit.ly/1zitf2Q ) |
| 10:25 |
mircea_popescu |
"They believe the extreme difficulty of collection that the Debtors and/or the Committee will face in the event a judgment is entered against Mr. Barber warrants an approval of the Mutual Release, subject to the right of the Debtors and the Committee to pursue claims against Mr. Barber to the extent there is insurance coverage available to pay such claims." |
| 10:25 |
fluffypony |
lol BingoBoingo |
| 10:25 |
mircea_popescu |
basically guy ain't going to jale. |
| 10:26 |
fluffypony |
25 BTC is BTCJam loan level |
| 10:26 |
mircea_popescu |
"Mr. Barbers financial statement shows that he is currently insolvent on a balance sheet basis." |
| |
↖ |
| 10:26 |
mircea_popescu |
fluffypony you'd be surprised. it WAS. |
| 10:28 |
mircea_popescu |
;;later tell zaht http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-12-2014#948202 there you go, close enough. |
| 10:28 |
assbot |
Logged on 08-12-2014 15:26:33; mircea_popescu: "Mr. Barbers financial statement shows that he is currently insolvent on a balance sheet basis." |
| 10:28 |
gribble |
The operation succeeded. |
| 10:28 |
mircea_popescu |
"Mr. Barber does not have the ability to fund a defense of any cause of action and would likely be forced into a chapter 7 if forced to defend against claims brought by the estate. The financial statement suggests that such a chapter 7 filing would be determined to be a no asset case. Accordingly, the Debtors and the Committee believe that absent a settlement, it would be very difficult to collect anything at all |
| 10:28 |
mircea_popescu |
from Mr. Barber, even if a judgment was already in hand today. This factor weighed heavily in the Debtors and Committees decision-making." |
| 10:29 |
mircea_popescu |
so the tardstalk schmucks were going around acting as if this utter bum is somehow a businessman. |
| 10:29 |
mircea_popescu |
one of 'em huh. |
| 10:29 |
mircea_popescu |
"It also shows that he has no material unencumbered assets, and that his encumbered assets (primary residence and vehicles) have no equity." |
| 10:29 |
mircea_popescu |
cazalla nice publish srsly. |
| 10:31 |
mircea_popescu |
so the "legal process" in california is so very effectual, guy walks o jesus. ok, ima write this up. |
| 10:32 |
fluffypony |
have we spoken about the new Just Dice yet? |
| 10:33 |
BingoBoingo |
Not yet? |
| 10:35 |
fluffypony |
I'm still trying to figure out the raison d'être for CLAMs |
| 10:35 |
fluffypony |
I mean the altcoin, not the seafood |
| 10:36 |
BingoBoingo |
What's their shtick? |
| 10:36 |
fluffypony |
I dunno, maybe dooglus can enlighten us |
| 10:37 |
mircea_popescu |
fluffypony something like http://trilema.com/2012/the-reasons-why-bitcoin-securities-cant-be-regulated-by-the-sec/ 2012 is too far in the past so we don't remember it, therefore must make bitcoin clone to say it's a gaming currence ? |
| 10:37 |
assbot |
The reasons why Bitcoin securities can't be regulated by the SEC pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1G7bshw ) |
| 10:38 |
fluffypony |
lol |
| 10:39 |
mircea_popescu |
but that's essentially it, right ? "your honor, this is internet funbux likle wow gold and monopoly money, stfu and go home". |
| 10:39 |
mircea_popescu |
seems to me better to defend the defensible position rather than try and defend an undefensible positon that's nevertheless slightly more inland. but wtf do i know about strategy. |
| 10:42 |
fluffypony |
sure |
| 10:42 |
fluffypony |
but |
| 10:43 |
fluffypony |
CLAMs are "special" because if you owned Bitcoin or Dogecoin or Litecoin at some magical date when it launched or whatever, then you can "redeem" CLAMs |
| 10:43 |
mircea_popescu |
uh. |
| 10:44 |
mircea_popescu |
wait i recall this thing. why do you figure it's related to dooglus ? |
| 10:44 |
fluffypony |
so in a court of law I'm certain the argument could be made that it has equivalency, and merely giving it a new name doesn't make it any different to Bitcoin |
| 10:44 |
mircea_popescu |
i thought he was making some new jd-special coin. |
| 10:44 |
fluffypony |
nope |
| 10:44 |
fluffypony |
JD was relaunched as CLAMs only |
| 10:44 |
mircea_popescu |
eh. |
| 10:44 |
fluffypony |
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884724.msg9773474#msg9773474 |
| 10:44 |
assbot |
Just-Dice.com Relaunched! With CLAM! ... ( http://bit.ly/1ziAAQd ) |
| 10:44 |
mircea_popescu |
that was dumb, bt anyway. |
| 10:44 |
fluffypony |
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238613.msg9772760#msg9772760 |
| 10:44 |
assbot |
Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest ... ( http://bit.ly/1ziADLR ) |
| 10:44 |
mircea_popescu |
"Mandatory Update/Fork Complete!" heh. |
| 10:45 |
mircea_popescu |
dooglus duide seriously that was the stupidest move ever. you could have just sold the damned site. |
| 10:46 |
mircea_popescu |
i like this guy, but he has the communication abilities of an engineer, and as a result ends up with the local minimums ffs. |
| 10:48 |
BingoBoingo |
Maybe that's the point of the clams thing, being a kind of retarded mess that's going to be a huge pain for rgulators. |
| 10:48 |
fluffypony |
hah hah |
| 10:48 |
fluffypony |
tell the regulators that the USG owns CLAMs by virtue of them having a bunch of BTC in May? |
| 10:48 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 127 @ 0.01027433 = 1.3048 BTC [-] |
| 10:49 |
BingoBoingo |
Oh, I'm thinking make the attourneys or whoever sink fucktons of time into figuring out just what clams are. |
| 10:49 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway i dun really see this is fixable. |
| 10:49 |
mircea_popescu |
;;rated dooglus |
| 10:49 |
gribble |
You rated user dooglus on Wed Jul 2 22:02:07 2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Truly a pillar of the community.. |
| 10:49 |
mircea_popescu |
;;unrate dooglus |
| |
↖ |
| 10:49 |
gribble |
Successfully removed your rating for dooglus. |
| 10:50 |
mircea_popescu |
im so fucking sick of asicminerism i can't even begin to tell it all. |
| |
↖ |
| 10:51 |
TomServo |
these clams are some pretty good lulz though |
| 10:51 |
mircea_popescu |
bitcoin brings the worst autist specimens up for air. |
| 10:52 |
BingoBoingo |
The big flaw with it is that dooglus came with too much quantity of name for this. People are going to be all "let's make clams have value" and dooglus goes back to what he tried to avoid. |
| 10:52 |
TomServo |
at least they're upfront about wanting to redistribute 'satoshi's horde' |
| 10:53 |
mircea_popescu |
the onl;y thing i see them being upfront about is being derps. |
| 10:57 |
Namworld |
The heck is clams? |
| 10:58 |
TomServo |
crypto clams, yo |
| 10:58 |
TomServo |
because not every slang word for cash was used yet |
| 10:58 |
mircea_popescu |
haha. is there coinbread yet ? |
| 10:58 |
mircea_popescu |
cheezebit ? |
| 10:59 |
mircea_popescu |
Namworld some derpage https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-clam-clams-proof-of-key-3-1-million-distributed.318751/ |
| 10:59 |
assbot |
[ANN][CLAM] CLAMS > Proof-Of-Key > 3.1 Million Distributed | Bitcointa.lk ... ( http://bit.ly/1G7em5S ) |
| 10:59 |
mircea_popescu |
check out misspelled announcement JPH |
| 11:00 |
mircea_popescu |
because you can't fucking write text, it's not what you're saying, it's how you're saying it that matters. gotta make a fucking drawing of it. |
| 11:10 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00053371 = 4.7767 BTC [+] |
| 11:13 |
scoopbot |
New post on Bingo Blog by BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/12/08/bowl-season/ |
| 11:15 |
BingoBoingo |
http://thecryptosphere.com/2014/10/10/exclusive-matt-dehart-coverage-paul-dehart-and-tor-ekelund-interviewed/ |
| 11:15 |
assbot |
Exclusive Matt DeHart coverage: Paul DeHart and Tor Ekeland Interviewed | The Cryptosphere ... ( http://bit.ly/1G7ghas ) |
| 11:17 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.0005338 = 7.6333 BTC [+] {2} |
| 11:20 |
mircea_popescu |
http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=just%20because%20from:mircea_popescu << i think i found a great way to traverse the logs |
| 11:20 |
assbot |
276 results for 'just because from:mircea_popescu' - #bitcoin-assets search |
| 11:26 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov sometimes when clicking on charts on coinbr i get nginx "service temporary unavailable". it always goes away if i reload |
| 11:26 |
mircea_popescu |
but i wonder how many people don't think to reload ? |
| 11:27 |
jurov |
it's anti-ddos rate limit |
| 11:27 |
mircea_popescu |
it always hits me on the first visit tho. |
| 11:27 |
adlai |
same |
| 11:27 |
mircea_popescu |
it must be some session cookie or something ? |
| 11:28 |
BingoBoingo |
pre-emptive rate limit |
| 11:30 |
jurov |
on the second visit, browser has cached stuff and doesn;t do so many requests |
| 11:30 |
jurov |
but it's something i must fix |
| 11:30 |
mircea_popescu |
oh i see. |
| 11:30 |
mircea_popescu |
makes sense. |
| 11:30 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, i was going to link to you and figured graphs are cool, but will just link the root and well... |
| 11:32 |
asciilifeform |
ddos << there will come the day when folks will remember the 'route to anybody who asks first-come-first-serve' internet - with disgust. |
| |
↖ |
| 11:33 |
asciilifeform |
(see also thread http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-11-2014#931927 ) |
| 11:33 |
assbot |
Logged on 23-11-2014 05:04:09; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is why, in my unofficial wonderland, you can't even open a socket without transmitting an rsa-signed a 'this is me, and my wot' breath of life packet. |
| 11:33 |
jurov |
asciilifeform you basically want telco network, where every packed knows who paid for it |
| 11:33 |
asciilifeform |
as it is, ddos mitigation does at least as much damage as the disease itself |
| 11:33 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform im not so sure. i kinda like it. |
| 11:34 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: not the idiot 'stop spam via taxation' scheme that everyone is familiar with, no |
| 11:34 |
asciilifeform |
that just ensures hegemony of the richest spammer |
| 11:34 |
mircea_popescu |
how do you prevent your system from going there ? |
| 11:34 |
asciilifeform |
wot at the packet route level. |
| 11:36 |
asciilifeform |
(or, question of how to prevent owners of large, expensive pipes - e.g., transatlantic - from charging for seats in wot? you don't, if you want them built & maintained, and this is approximately what they have now) |
| 11:41 |
BingoBoingo |
qntra write up coming http://blog.blockchain.com/2014/12/08/blockchain-info-security-disclosure/ |
| 11:41 |
assbot |
Blockchain.info Security Disclosure | Blockchain Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1G7jiHS ) |
| 11:44 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform not quite. |
| 11:46 |
mircea_popescu |
http://trilema.com/2011/nsfw-aus-dem-leben-der-marionetten/ << neone seen this one ? it's not so bad. |
| 11:46 |
assbot |
[NSFW] Aus Dem Leben Der Marionetten pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1yHUvYK ) |
| 11:58 |
Pierre_Rochard |
!up iang_fc |
| 11:58 |
Pierre_Rochard |
iang_fc: welcome to #bitcoin-assets |
| 11:59 |
mircea_popescu |
ello./ |
| 11:59 |
asciilifeform |
http://cryptome.org/2014/12/david-blishen.htm << flondor nominee ? |
| 11:59 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1G7lkaS ) |
| 11:59 |
Pierre_Rochard |
background for those of us not on twitter: https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/541999761684201472 |
| 11:59 |
assbot |
This is the largest investment in a BTC company to date. http://t.co/MZl7B4Nj9F /hashtag/bitcoin?src=hash-assets /Mircea_Popescu /hashtag/MPEx?src=hash |
| 12:02 |
fluffypony |
well I guess he struggles with the interwebs |
| 12:02 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: you were probably thinking of the ancient classic: http://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt |
| 12:02 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1G7lG1g ) |
| 12:02 |
fluffypony |
no wonder he says we should ditch PGP |
| 12:04 |
asciilifeform |
'1. ditch PGP, it's a millstone.' << leper is ringing his bell. thank him and cross the street to avoid contagion |
| 12:05 |
assbot |
Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2T0QKA9.txt ) |
| 12:05 |
Pierre_Rochard |
!b 1 |
| 12:08 |
jurov |
asciilifeform: on one side we explain to everyone how wot ratings are to be manually examined and not rating or similar number used... on other side you consider rating suitable for routing priority? |
| 12:09 |
jurov |
*and not cumulative rating... |
| 12:09 |
asciilifeform |
where every packet knows who paid for it << those who imagine a wot-routing based net as a rent-seekers' paradise are mistaken. it is today's net that is a rent-seeker's paradise, where folks who cannot abide ddos must buy bandwidth in vast excess of their normal needs |
| |
↖ |
| 12:09 |
jurov |
so how do you imagine_ |
| 12:10 |
* |
mircea_popescu sees his name mentioned, goes to see wtf. |
| 12:10 |
jurov |
any wot that can be collapsed down to one number can and will be abused |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
"as it's what I built & delivered 18 years back ;-)" o that's nice. |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
link ? |
| 12:10 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: perhaps i ought to have explained. not wot in the sense of numerics |
| 12:10 |
mircea_popescu |
o wait, he left. heh mk. |
| 12:11 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-11-2014#931948 |
| 12:11 |
assbot |
Logged on 23-11-2014 05:11:53; asciilifeform: a 4096-bit rsa signature and key fp fit handily in a udp minimal packet. |
| 12:11 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: a 'wot-enabled' router will simply prioritize, say, udp packets signed with particular keys |
| 12:11 |
mircea_popescu |
dude how is it that all these dudes with wild historicity claims fail to back them up ? |
| 12:12 |
mircea_popescu |
i recall that "badon effect" dude reducing his "2004" to "2012" on the first cursory examination. |
| 12:12 |
asciilifeform |
(and - optionally - drop others, if congestion sensors are tripped) |
| 12:12 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov i imagine he just wants a more continuous bgp arrangement. |
| 12:12 |
jurov |
how will router determine? ;;gettrust self source? |
| 12:12 |
mircea_popescu |
rather than the very discrete "either you're in or out of the group" thing |
| 12:13 |
asciilifeform |
what i want can be approximately described as 'internet that does not operate on the rivers of meat principle' |
| 12:13 |
asciilifeform |
that is, explicitly anti-democratic. |
| 12:13 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform but still used by rivers of meat ? |
| 12:13 |
asciilifeform |
used by the users. |
| 12:13 |
jurov |
"will simply prioritize, say, udp packets signed with particular keys" sounds to me exactly like "either you're in or out of the group" |
| 12:13 |
asciilifeform |
elementarily. |
| 12:13 |
mircea_popescu |
answer the q lol. |
| 12:13 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov yes but more layers to the group. |
| 12:14 |
mircea_popescu |
currently the way it works is however many people can route you in or out. and that's that. |
| 12:14 |
mircea_popescu |
(so not wanting to relive the experience of the cabal they mostly don't use it) |
| 12:14 |
asciilifeform |
used by potentially anyone, but 'deadheads' (non-wot folks) will ride in the back of the bus at all times. |
| 12:14 |
mircea_popescu |
his idea would allow layers to work better. |
| 12:16 |
asciilifeform |
i'll spill the beans, if somebody wants to reimplement. basic unit of transmission is 'raptor code' over udp. hence - connectionless. |
| 12:17 |
asciilifeform |
thus every packet identifies what pubkey (i.e. who signed) and what particular fountain it belongs to (what's a fountain? see definition of 'raptor' and other 'fountain' erasure codes) |
| 12:17 |
scoopbot |
New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/blockchain-info-discloses-vulnerability-window/ |
| 12:18 |
asciilifeform |
parameters of raptorcode can be tweaked depending on noise floor values (e.g. shortwave in the apocalyptic wasteland requires more 'leg room' than comfortable modern net under ideal peacetime conditions) |
| 12:20 |
BingoBoingo |
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581411.msg9774894#msg9774894 |
| 12:20 |
assbot |
Reused R values again ... ( http://bit.ly/1G7nNlJ ) |
| 12:21 |
mircea_popescu |
this will be a nightmare for gaming. |
| 12:22 |
asciilifeform |
gaming already uses udp |
| 12:22 |
asciilifeform |
just, sans signatures (or erasure code or any mechanism whatsoever for reliable delivery) |
| 12:22 |
mircea_popescu |
low latency tho. |
| 12:23 |
asciilifeform |
my scheme, given hardware acceleration for the signer & erasure decoder, is as low latency as it gets |
| 12:23 |
asciilifeform |
thing is, with a code like raptor, -order- of packets no longer matters |
| 12:23 |
asciilifeform |
it's a pure k-of-n decode |
| 12:24 |
xanthyos |
asciilifeform: were you ever into packet terminal on ham radio? |
| 12:24 |
asciilifeform |
anyone who wants to do this - can go do. vita brevis. |
| 12:24 |
asciilifeform |
xanthyos: nope. |
| 12:24 |
mircea_popescu |
BingoBoingo heh counterparty eh ? |
| 12:24 |
mircea_popescu |
qntra! |
| 12:24 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform hm. |
| 12:25 |
asciilifeform |
anyone who wonders why this was never done... answer - uses mathematics that did not exist when the net was built (reed-solomon existed, yes! but quite inefficient) |
| 12:26 |
BingoBoingo |
mircea_popescu: Well, the derps derped about their webwallets on blockchain.info being safe. In the end it was blockchain.info that fucked them. |
| 12:26 |
mircea_popescu |
"There seems to be a new buggy program that reuses the same R value for all signatures in a transaction. It started around September 2014" |
| 12:27 |
mircea_popescu |
"Note that the addresses that appear only in the second list still may be in danger, e.g., if they stem from a BIP32 wallet and one knows the "xpub" public key." |
| 12:27 |
mircea_popescu |
specifically, this gives the lie, exemplarily, to "oh, bip32 poses no threat to your security" |
| 12:27 |
mircea_popescu |
it does. practical proof here. |
| 12:28 |
asciilifeform |
the lie was obvious to an alert first-grader. |
| 12:29 |
mircea_popescu |
nevertheless, we're surrounded by women. |
| 12:29 |
mircea_popescu |
and women aren't gradable. |
| 12:29 |
asciilifeform |
?! |
| 12:29 |
asciilifeform |
women or 'women' |
| 12:29 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. eunuchs |
| 12:30 |
* |
asciilifeform is somewhat befuddled by mircea_popescu's habit of referring to eunuchs as 'women' |
| 12:30 |
mircea_popescu |
why ? |
| 12:31 |
asciilifeform |
for the same reason that a man who has freshly lost his head in the guillotine is not 'the headless horseman' |
| 12:31 |
assbot |
Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0DF1PYK.txt ) |
| 12:31 |
BingoBoingo |
!b 3 |
| 12:31 |
asciilifeform |
and, conversely, one who had a second head sewn on by a demented vivisectionist is not a Yottin |
| 12:31 |
mircea_popescu |
functionally the same. |
| 12:32 |
asciilifeform |
l0l! |
| 12:32 |
* |
asciilifeform 'doesn't swing that way', can't really agree |
| 12:32 |
asciilifeform |
at any rate, it's confusing as hell to n00bs, i imagine |
| 12:32 |
mircea_popescu |
but in this line of thinking you're baking in ulterior considerations into an anterior branch of the thought tree. |
| 12:32 |
mircea_popescu |
not how it's supposed to be done. |
| 12:32 |
mircea_popescu |
so ? |
| 12:33 |
mircea_popescu |
let em figure things out. |
| 12:33 |
mircea_popescu |
plurisemy and syntactico-lexical ambiguity are the actual reasons language is an adequate medium of thought, |
| 12:33 |
asciilifeform |
ulterior << not even buying the 'they work precisely alike if you don't attempt to fuck'em' hypothesis |
| 12:33 |
mircea_popescu |
where code is not. |
| 12:33 |
asciilifeform |
unless i'm seriously missing something |
| 12:33 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform suppose you are to deliver cattle. |
| 12:33 |
mircea_popescu |
suppose buyer also takes goats. |
| 12:33 |
mircea_popescu |
"goats aren't cattle" ? |
| 12:34 |
asciilifeform |
more of a 'steer is not functionally identical to a cow' sort of thing here. |
| 12:34 |
mircea_popescu |
if i'm sending it to the mcdonalds factory it might be. |
| 12:35 |
mircea_popescu |
otherwise, no cow is identical to any other cow. |
| 12:35 |
asciilifeform |
meat processing experts - chime in |
| 12:35 |
BingoBoingo |
<asciilifeform> more of a 'steer is not functionally identical to a cow' sort of thing here. << WHen collected for meat it is |
| 12:35 |
mircea_popescu |
here's the thing : bug parts are functionally identical to rice, |
| 12:35 |
mircea_popescu |
provided there's not more than 50 ppm of them. |
| 12:35 |
mircea_popescu |
the fda says so! |
| 12:35 |
asciilifeform |
the upper limit - shall be found experimentally. this - we know. |
| 12:36 |
asciilifeform |
possibly it is 100%. given the correct reprocessor. |
| 12:37 |
mircea_popescu |
so. obviously for the needs of your own bed you may employ whatever perverse criteria. |
| 12:37 |
mircea_popescu |
nevertheless, the entire content of chumpatron X is going to be x. |
| 12:38 |
mircea_popescu |
all people in prison - prisoners. whether "guilty" or "innocent". all those in the insane asylum - insane. |
| 12:38 |
mircea_popescu |
on it goes. |
| 12:38 |
scoopbot |
New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/hashfast-or-why-the-fiat-legal-system-doesnt-actually-exist-and-doesnt-actually-matter/ |
| 12:38 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform ^ also see first note there, oddly on point. |
| 12:41 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: http://yarchive.net/med/social_osteoporosis.html << related hypothesis |
| |
↖ |
| 12:41 |
assbot |
Social osteoporosis (Steven B. Harris, M.D.) ... ( http://bit.ly/1G7pYWg ) |
| 12:43 |
ben_vulpes |
re bug parts and rice have y'all heard about the cockroach protein farms in china? |
| 12:44 |
mircea_popescu |
myeah. one step above shrimp amirite |
| 12:44 |
asciilifeform |
'land shrimp' |
| 12:44 |
asciilifeform |
favourite of downed pilots around the world. |
| 12:50 |
mircea_popescu |
"a horrid sort of gossipy social activism" o ya. |
| 12:51 |
mircea_popescu |
social osteoporosis. quite apt. |
| 12:53 |
mircea_popescu |
"tern Daddy-goverment, wars and prisons and all, I |
| 12:53 |
mircea_popescu |
reflect that it's too bad we gave anyone over 40 the vote" <<< for what it's worth, this is a woesome misrepresentation of the male. it's the beta male fighing for cotnrol, about as relevant in the discussion as the fat female fighting for reproductive equality. |
| 12:53 |
mircea_popescu |
!up BitLuckInfo |
| 12:54 |
asciilifeform |
zoological discussion tends to be about the organisms that 'make the weather' - most numerous or at least, most detectable |
| 12:55 |
mircea_popescu |
by this token a discussion of primitive village demographics will center on the visible males |
| 12:55 |
mircea_popescu |
whereas the chieftain fathers 50% of the actual offspring on a regular basis. |
| 12:55 |
* |
asciilifeform did not know that this was a secret |
| 12:56 |
asciilifeform |
not even unusually high in mammalian world alone - consider, e.g., elephant seal |
| 12:56 |
mircea_popescu |
http://trilema.com/2011/nsfw-tigancusa-spune-drept/ let |
| 12:56 |
assbot |
[NSFW] Tigancusa, spune drept... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjfAsA ) |
| 12:56 |
mircea_popescu |
's instead consider the underclass teenaged female. |
| 12:57 |
mircea_popescu |
shapelier. |
| 12:57 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16423 @ 0.00053474 = 8.782 BTC [+] {2} |
| 12:57 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
| 12:57 |
asciilifeform |
sure of this ? |
| 12:57 |
asciilifeform |
(not where i live, they aren't!) |
| 12:58 |
mircea_popescu |
well fwis. |
| 12:58 |
mircea_popescu |
* BitLuckInfo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) << you know this makes me feel a lot better about giving out voice / ratings to noobs. |
| 12:58 |
mircea_popescu |
how many failed to get in today, 3 ? 5 ? |
| 12:59 |
asciilifeform |
incidentally, if anyone bothered to read the packet dump i posted a while ago, they should know that the ddos bot uses misconfigured consumer routers (upnp reflection) |
| |
↖ |
| 12:59 |
asciilifeform |
and anyone who wishes can walk away with them. |
| 12:59 |
mircea_popescu |
kinda the point lol. |
| 13:00 |
asciilifeform |
(they aren't 'pwned' in the traditional - permanent - sense) |
| 13:00 |
mircea_popescu |
i wish to see the noob that does that, rather than coming in here trying to derp about how "they did it 18 years ago" |
| 13:00 |
asciilifeform |
nothing stops anyone reading this from firing up 'tcpdump', logging uncloaked into #b-a a few hundred times, grabbing a dump similar to my own but more complete, and pointing the idiot boxes at, e.g., 'reddit' 24/7/365. |
| 13:01 |
asciilifeform |
until they all get booted by respective isp |
| 13:01 |
mircea_popescu |
indeed. |
| 13:02 |
* |
asciilifeform always thought even a chimp could follow his recipes. what does he need to add, pictures? voices? music? |
| 13:03 |
mircea_popescu |
you need to add not caring :D |
| 13:03 |
* |
asciilifeform possesses an infinite supply of not-caring-juice |
| 13:04 |
mircea_popescu |
let 'em figure it out. the stuff's there, they may, eventually they will, who cares. |
| 13:04 |
mircea_popescu |
tits. |
| 13:05 |
mircea_popescu |
http://www.danielalepus.ro/danielalepus_ro_database.sql << meanwhile some more lol |
| 13:05 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1zji89W ) |
| 13:06 |
ben_vulpes |
nothing but time and incentive. |
| 13:06 |
asciilifeform |
the smell of rotting corpse of enemy not incentive ? |
| 13:06 |
asciilifeform |
not incentive enough ? |
| 13:07 |
ben_vulpes |
what's the market telling you? |
| 13:07 |
mircea_popescu |
you srsly think reddit is relevant in that sense ? |
| 13:07 |
asciilifeform |
'reddit' used as example |
| 13:07 |
ben_vulpes |
and in what sense does redirecting a ddos actually lead to a rotting corpse? |
| 13:08 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: if you want the entire recipe that leads to proper corpse, you will have to derive it yourself |
| 13:09 |
mircea_popescu |
no but seriously, so through this or any other million ways one so inclined could create a ddos network. ok, so ? |
| 13:09 |
asciilifeform |
for now may settle for the classical 'if you sit by the river long enough, you'll see the body of your enemy float by.' |
| 13:09 |
asciilifeform |
point is not to create ddos, but to swat a mosquito |
| 13:09 |
mircea_popescu |
seems to me more like discussing @ cavalry officer's mess all about how there's a bunch of reeds on a riverside "free for the taking" |
| 13:10 |
mircea_popescu |
"and they'd make excellent stickhorses!" |
| 13:10 |
mircea_popescu |
well... ok ? |
| 13:10 |
asciilifeform |
mosquito flies around #b-a annoyingly, and no one swats. i found this odd. |
| 13:10 |
mircea_popescu |
im still trying to find the annoying part. |
| 13:10 |
asciilifeform |
well, someone not long ago tried to invite a n00b to #b-a |
| 13:10 |
asciilifeform |
neglecting to mention the surprise |
| 13:11 |
mircea_popescu |
but the noob was an online expert. he'll figure it out. |
| 13:11 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
| 13:11 |
mircea_popescu |
because the sort of people who "invented it all 18 years ago" tend (in my experience at least) to also be the sort that won't have their venues limited by kids with fiddy routers. |
| 13:12 |
mircea_popescu |
i could of course be entirely wrong, maybe he's really a woman and needs special encouragement to "participate". |
| 13:12 |
* |
asciilifeform missing the reference to the '18 years' |
| 13:12 |
asciilifeform |
is this another '3 ani experienta' ? |
| 13:12 |
mircea_popescu |
it's in danielpbarron link lemme fish it |
| 13:13 |
mircea_popescu |
https://twitter.com/iang_fc/status/541987415997841408 |
| 13:13 |
assbot |
This is the largest investment in a BTC company to date. http://t.co/MZl7B4Nj9F /hashtag/bitcoin?src=hash-assets /Mircea_Popescu /hashtag/MPEx?src=hash |
| 13:13 |
asciilifeform |
aha! that one |
| 13:13 |
mircea_popescu |
well that was it no ? |
| 13:14 |
asciilifeform |
'it was what i built and delivered' minus pgp, minus xxx, yyy, hell knows how many details that looked like 'irrelevant hair' to the imbecile |
| 13:14 |
asciilifeform |
!s blub |
| 13:14 |
assbot |
2 results for 'blub' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=blub |
| 13:14 |
mircea_popescu |
* iang_fc (ae3f267d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.63.38.125) has joined #bitcoin-assets < |
| 13:15 |
* |
adlai just got approval to work in lisp |
| 13:15 |
adlai |
speaking of blub :D |
| 13:15 |
asciilifeform |
approval from whom? |
| 13:15 |
asciilifeform |
lizard hitler ? |
| 13:15 |
fluffypony |
steve jobs' ghost |
| 13:16 |
adlai |
fons pecunia |
| 13:16 |
mircea_popescu |
lol |
| 13:18 |
asciilifeform |
'You can buy the assets of an ASIC miner company for the eminently NOT lowball offer of 20k' (from mircea_popescu's article) << let's guess. fabless asic co. ? |
| 13:18 |
asciilifeform |
if fabless, they owned what? a set of masks, that an undergrad could easily cough up at this point? a list of peculiarly gullible chumps? - anyone with a net connection can regenerate that oen |
| 13:18 |
asciilifeform |
*one |
| 13:18 |
asciilifeform |
so what's the asset that is even worth the 20 tonnes usd ? |
| 13:19 |
asciilifeform |
(walketh there, upon the greene earth, a non-fabless mining asic co?) |
| 13:19 |
asciilifeform |
^ other than ft. meade |
| 13:21 |
mircea_popescu |
they're all fabless. |
| 13:21 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: i have a present for you! |
| 13:21 |
mircea_popescu |
and it owned... you know. valuable shit. like all of 'em. |
| 13:21 |
mircea_popescu |
what's bitpay worth 300mn for ? |
| 13:22 |
thestringpuller |
bitpay is valued at 300mn now? |
| 13:22 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: what is the skepter of lizard hitler worth? the 300mn is simply the figure usg saw fit to write into the work of fiction |
| 13:22 |
asciilifeform |
they could as easily write 300, 30, or 3e-10 |
| 13:24 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: present << a defunct fabless asic co? you can keep that one |
| 13:25 |
asciilifeform |
or give to city dogcatcher, it's for the soap boilers |
| 13:26 |
asciilifeform |
(re: miner asics: anyone who gives a damn can find, in #b-a logs, my reasonably well-supported hypothesis that miner asic never actually -happened.- that is, there are devices, and they - approximately - work, but they are not 'asics' in the traditional sense. more 'hardcopy fpga.' - actual term of art) |
| |
↖ |
| 13:27 |
asciilifeform |
aka 'structured asic' |
| 13:28 |
asciilifeform |
these have approximately the same relationship with 'proper' asic as 'visual basic' turdware has with traditional computer program by reasonably-competent student of 'c'. |
| 13:28 |
punkman |
re: iang_fc http://www.systemics.com/products.html |
| 13:28 |
assbot |
Systemics - Products ... ( http://bit.ly/1zjpvOP ) |
| 13:28 |
asciilifeform |
'hushmail' << checkmate |
| 13:29 |
asciilifeform |
damnatio memoriae. |
| 13:30 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6421 @ 0.00053306 = 3.4228 BTC [-] {2} |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
| 13:55 |
mats |
TSLA tumbles another 4% |
| 13:55 |
fluffypony |
clickbaitz |
| 13:55 |
fluffypony |
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/12/mysterious-politician-steps-in-to-buy-bitcoin-startup-hashfasts-assets/ |
| 13:55 |
assbot |
Mysterious politician steps in to buy Bitcoin startup HashFast’s assets | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1z08yaQ ) |
| 13:57 |
fluffypony |
although this is lulzy - |
| 13:57 |
fluffypony |
'Such a move baffled the veteran bankruptcy judge, Dennis Montali. "What troubled me was to read that Mr. Ochoa will allow the debtor to buy mining boards?" he said from the bench. "This is like a patient that is going to die from three different things and now you're suggesting a fourth surgery," he added. "Now they want to do a hip transplant? Why?"' |
| 14:04 |
asciilifeform |
re: bankrupt: obligatory naggum: |
| 14:04 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3199109843356887@naggum.net.html |
| 14:04 |
assbot |
Re: ...and even for those _NOT_ interested... - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1z09c8y ) |
| 14:04 |
asciilifeform |
'companies that go bankrupt are a danger to healthy competition. They are able to make their creditors and shareholders pay for their losses and bad management and then to start anew with assets that they essentially got for free, quite unlike the competition that has not gone bankrupt, who have to pay full price for their assets, but quite similar to how their customers have wanted their products, for too little money.' |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
| 14:30 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: nah but a hint, the present is driven by this chip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_5A22 |
| 14:31 |
fluffypony |
lol |
| 14:32 |
fluffypony |
not the Gameboy cpu? |
| 14:34 |
thestringpuller |
lol |
| 14:34 |
thestringpuller |
;;ticker |
| 14:34 |
gribble |
Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 366.78, Best ask: 367.01, Bid-ask spread: 0.23000, Last trade: 367.01, 24 hour volume: 8639.23100628, 24 hour low: 365.25, 24 hour high: 377.5, 24 hour vwap: 369.680083909 |
| 14:37 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14896 @ 0.00053056 = 7.9032 BTC [-] {2} |
| 14:44 |
mircea_popescu |
<asciilifeform> aka 'structured asic' <<< this was true last year. meanwhile tho... look at the hash per power figures. |
| 14:48 |
thestringpuller |
;;nethash |
| 14:48 |
gribble |
279536224.11 |
| 14:48 |
thestringpuller |
interessant mon ami |
| 14:49 |
thestringpuller |
meanwhile http://www.shitexpress.com/blog/how-we-earned-10120-usd-in-30-days-by-sending-horse-poop-to-people-amazing-kickstart-of-a-marketing-experiment/?bitcoin |
| 14:49 |
assbot |
AMAZING COMPANY! |
| 14:55 |
* |
TomServo highfives assbot. |
| 14:55 |
rithm |
that shitexpress blog post gets my vote for blog post of the year |
| 14:55 |
rithm |
so HN worthy |
| 14:56 |
mircea_popescu |
"Anyone who plans to waste the shareholders' money can undercut the competition. The easiest thing in the world is to charge too little, it is just as easy as spending too much of other people's money. Customers will flock to those who do because they are giving away some, if not all, of the value for free. Somebody may even pick up the underpriced goods and sell them at a profit when the stupid company ceases to ex |
| 14:56 |
mircea_popescu |
ist or raises prices to try to survive after all." |
| 14:56 |
mircea_popescu |
pretty great. ima save five gallons of twitter for a few years ? |
| 14:57 |
mircea_popescu |
wtf does this work when the "value" given away isn't even worth anything. |
| 14:59 |
mthreat |
https://coedtoplesspulpfiction.wordpress.com/ |
| 14:59 |
assbot |
The Outdoor Co-ed Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society | Burn Bras, Not Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0b2eI ) |
| 15:02 |
mircea_popescu |
mthreat sent them an email inviting them to participate in teh http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ |
| 15:02 |
assbot |
I'll pay for your tits pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0bs4I ) |
| 15:02 |
mircea_popescu |
curious if this goes anywhere. |
| 15:15 |
mircea_popescu |
;;later tell decimation http://trilema.com/2013/and-now-i-shall-be-off-scarfing-smoked-salmon-and-fresh-apple-pie-seasoned-with-free-market-tears-or-why-a-collection-of-confused-retards-does-not-amount-to-a-free-market/#footnote_0_49891 << prolly relevant to your interests. |
| 15:15 |
assbot |
And now I shall be off scarfing smoked salmon and fresh apple pie seasoned with free market tears, or Why a collection of confused retards does not amount to a free market. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ywDtJd ) |
| 15:15 |
gribble |
The operation succeeded. |
| 15:23 |
thestringpuller |
|
| 15:23 |
thestringpuller |
oops |
| 15:30 |
thestringpuller |
~> |
| 15:30 |
thestringpuller |
~> |
| 15:41 |
mats |
mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/E5NU7nXx and as for subtext, idk that there is any ... the man is powerful and developing a young woman, and wants people at the hotel to know it. |
| 15:41 |
assbot |
A young tigress is waiting in line at the bus station. Up on her high heels, eye - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1s54dUr ) |
| 15:48 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.00053071 = 1.4595 BTC [+] |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
| 16:22 |
asciilifeform |
look at the hash per power figures << who wants to share a link to an experimenter they trust, with valid measurements? because why would i believe a word that ever came out of the manufacturers' mouths (proven liars, to a man, afaik) |
| 16:23 |
asciilifeform |
'nethash' may give one side of the equation (hash), but other (power) remains a mystery |
| 16:25 |
asciilifeform |
incidentally, the one time i saw an asic miner of any sort alive, personally (it belonged to a colleague) its actual 'hash/watt' was quite impossible to ascertain - worked, let's put it charitably, rather inconsistently |
| 16:25 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. 'k out of n cores most of the time, but we promise that with next fw update xxxxxxx [some horseshit]' etc |
| 16:26 |
assbot |
The20YearIRCloud +v failed; L1: 0, L2: -2 |
| 16:27 |
TomServo |
!up The20YearIRCloud |
| 16:27 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Wjat |
| 16:27 |
The20YearIRCloud |
WHat's the trust command? |
| 16:27 |
asciilifeform |
(i've quite forgotten, mercifully, what precisely the thing was. large rack-mount apparatus, that drew ~20 amperes at 120 v.ac. mains.) |
| 16:27 |
asciilifeform |
perhaps diametric remembers |
| 16:27 |
mats |
;;gettrust The20YearIRCloud assbot |
| 16:27 |
gribble |
WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user The20YearIRCloud to user assbot: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=The20YearIRCloud&dest=assbot | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=assbot | Rated since: Fri Apr 11 02:04:55 2014 |
| 16:27 |
TomServo |
;;gettrust assbot The20YearIRCloud |
| 16:27 |
gribble |
WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user The20YearIRCloud: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=The20YearIRCloud | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=The20YearIRCloud | Rated since: never |
| 16:28 |
mats |
;;ident The20YearIRCloud |
| 16:28 |
gribble |
CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'The20YearIRCloud', with hostmask 'The20YearIRCloud!uid38883@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktibawvxckycpvip', is identified as user 'the20year', with GPG key id 359D91C634AE8E53, key fingerprint DF515FC27907A1FC3236C7E8359D91C634AE8E53, and bitcoin address None |
| 16:28 |
TomServo |
;;gettrust assbot The20Year |
| 16:28 |
gribble |
Currently authenticated from hostmask The20YearIRCloud!uid38883@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktibawvxckycpvip. CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Trust relationship from user assbot to user The20Year: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=The20Year | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=The20Year | Rated since: Tue Apr 29 (1 more message) |
| 16:28 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Hmm |
| 16:28 |
mats |
you have been banished from the island |
| 16:29 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Guess so |
| 16:29 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Oh well |
| 16:30 |
The20YearIRCloud |
So far i've given out 8 posters, so far no one has cashed them in, go figure |
| 16:30 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Granted none of my renters have PC and none can figure out how to do it via mobile phone |
| 16:32 |
The20YearIRCloud |
But if you want to retaliate at me for my tenants not cashing in the posters.....then so be it. I've tried to do my part in educating them about bitcoin, how to cash them in and so forth. I realize the print cost for the posters was paid out by someone. But I don't understand why you're getting mad at ME over it. |
| 16:32 |
TomServo |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-11-2014#936968 |
| 16:32 |
assbot |
Logged on 27-11-2014 12:56:26; nubbins`: mircea_popescu:well if he did nubbins has some 'splainin' to do lol. <<< nope, in fact, i am also mildly perturbed by the fact that i mailed over $4,000 of goods to the guy and we didn't even get a couple measly pictures out of it |
| 16:32 |
fluffypony |
did you at least teach them the secret handshake? |
| 16:33 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I've explained for 5-10 minutes per tenant how it worked, to go on IRCwebchat, and to cash them in. I still have the 42 or so left over still sitting in my closet. I can mail em back to someone if they want. Howver i don't know what I am supposed to do if no one follows my directions or the ones on the posters. |
| 16:34 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I told them they'd get $35-$40 worth of bitcoins for free, and all it would do is take at worst an hour of their time, at best 5 minutes. |
| 16:35 |
jurov |
i'd be eager to try one myself, with some phto documentation.. or that was verboten? |
| 16:35 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Heck, i gave two out to guys who worked for me, and I know for a fact they're dead broke and they still couldn't figure out how to do it. |
| 16:35 |
The20YearIRCloud |
And that was the last part of October |
| 16:35 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00051884 = 14.32 BTC [-] {2} |
| 16:37 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I had told MP that it would have been a much, much better process if I ran a contest or something locally for the posters, that way they would have gone to houses where they wanted them or were higher educated. Yet i even had one tenant flat out refuse the poster after I put in their hands because it was 'too complicated' and 'all we have is a nintendo wii |
| 16:37 |
The20YearIRCloud |
and it doesn't do that stuff'. |
| 16:39 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Maybe I could give mircea_popescu their phone numbers and he could call em and ask them why? What the heck is expected of me beyond explaining to them how to do it and giving them the poster? Am I expected to spend a hour getting them on IRC and doing it all for them? |
| 16:46 |
mircea_popescu |
mats pls to put in comment at article tho. pastebins expire etc. |
| 16:47 |
mircea_popescu |
<asciilifeform> http://bitbet.us/bet/520/bitfury-eu-august-orders-will-ship-before-1st/ << dja take that in proof ? |
| 16:47 |
assbot |
BitBet - Bitfury EU August orders will ship before 1st September 2013 :: 14.16 B (57%) on Yes, 10.82 B (43%) on No | closed 1 year 3 months ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1wUaTGn ) |
| 16:47 |
mircea_popescu |
~1gh/w |
| 16:48 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Well, two of the posters look to have disappeared, i texted the guys who had em and it looks like after I put em in their work truck they went away or something. |
| 16:48 |
mircea_popescu |
(i know they failed on that power thoroughput specifically, but it's a year old+ bet. it actually improved meanwhile) |
| 16:49 |
jurov |
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/december/04/reckless-congress-declares-war-on-russia/ they insist :( |
| 16:49 |
assbot |
The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Reckless Congress 'Declares War' on Russia ... ( http://bit.ly/1wUbbgf ) |
| 16:49 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I'm going back and texting those who got them asking for speciifc explanation on why they didn't cash them in. |
| 16:49 |
mircea_popescu |
by now it's roughly, give or take, 1gh/watt. |
| 16:50 |
mircea_popescu |
The20YearIRCloud well nothing's specifically expected from you, that;s the problem with statistics. |
| 16:51 |
mircea_popescu |
it's not a matter of "retaliating" or w/e. |
| 16:51 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I'm asking you what you want me to do when I've given 8 to clients/tenants and none have cashed them in. I've got a negative rating from you over it, so i wouldn't mind resolving it if at all possible. |
| 16:51 |
fluffypony |
I still think you should've taught them the secret handshake, problem solved |
| 16:52 |
mircea_popescu |
The20YearIRCloud i dun want you to do anything specifically. |
| 16:52 |
mircea_popescu |
what do you want *me* to do. |
| 16:53 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Explain why I have a negative rating mentioning the posters. What else am I supposed to do with them? |
| 16:53 |
mircea_popescu |
<jurov> i'd be eager to try one myself, with some phto documentation.. or that was verboten? << try what you mean ? |
| 16:53 |
jurov |
the poster |
| 16:53 |
jurov |
cash it in |
| 16:53 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov nah, that's done. |
| 16:54 |
The20YearIRCloud |
They didn't have coupon codes on them, just instructions |
| 16:54 |
mircea_popescu |
The20YearIRCloud looky at what it says. "If you believe him you're stuck crediting a large pile of very improbable things, such as that no one out of dozen low income renters is interested in cashing ~50 bux worth of free BTC, or that buyers somehow materialize on Havelock to buy shares at 2x the going price for a single IPO day." |
| 16:54 |
The20YearIRCloud |
At least, i'm not aware of any codes on them, if there were, they weren't obvious. |
| 16:54 |
mircea_popescu |
now, these are facts. |
| 16:54 |
mircea_popescu |
what exactly caused them, how they're to be construed etc etc is entirely open to anyone's interpretation. |
| 16:55 |
The20YearIRCloud |
And I get a negative rating over their lack of effort |
| 16:55 |
mircea_popescu |
no, you get a negative rating the same way anyone ever did : by making a large enough pile of claims improbable enough. |
| 16:56 |
The20YearIRCloud |
What do you think I did with the posters? Just put em in a closet to have to resell some day in the future? |
| 16:57 |
fluffypony |
giant paper airplanes, most likely |
| 16:57 |
mircea_popescu |
i have no idea dood. how would i know. |
| 16:58 |
mike_c |
!up The20YearIRCloud |
| 16:59 |
The20YearIRCloud |
So, in other words : I did what was requested of me with the posters, I get neg repped for them. I did what my shareholders wanted by selling them more treasury shares at a specific USD value, I get neg repped for it. In both cases I did what was asked of me, with proof (Phone numbers and shareholders on my IRC chat) and still get negative rep because of it? |
| 16:59 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Doesn't make sense to me. |
| 17:00 |
mircea_popescu |
so your sworn testimony here is that out of however many tenants, not one has a working smartphone ? or what is it ? computers don't really so much enter into it as far as i can see. |
| 17:00 |
mike_c |
do you see why it would look weird for you to sell shares at an inflated price when your investors could have bought them cheaper on the open market? |
| 17:00 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Most of em have working smart phones, their statement to me was that they couldn't figure out how to get on IRC. |
| 17:01 |
The20YearIRCloud |
mike_c: they wanted to invest more cash directly in the company that would go to our bank, and not buy shares from individuals on the open market. |
| 17:01 |
TomServo |
I'd think your average low income earner would bend over backwards for fiddy bux. |
| 17:02 |
The20YearIRCloud |
You'd think so. |
| 17:03 |
mike_c |
The20YearIRCloud: do you list the address of your properties anywhere? |
| 17:03 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I've already sent messages out to those that i gave em to asking for a reasoning to them not cashing em in. Two guys have already told me they never got em even after I put em in their vehicles. |
| 17:03 |
The20YearIRCloud |
It's not public but if someone REALLY wanted em, i'd make the properties & deeds available. Around last year I gave mircea_popescu deed copies of 2 or 3 of the properties. |
| 17:03 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Our board of advisors has copies of our deeds and bank statements. |
| 17:04 |
mircea_popescu |
umm. |
| 17:05 |
mircea_popescu |
i remember you promising to put your deeds online but not carrying through. i dun recall this "given me" deeds. |
| 17:05 |
mircea_popescu |
nfi why i wouldn't have said something at the time, either. |
| 17:06 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I sent you to landaccess.com and showed you how to look up TIF copies |
| 17:06 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Since everything is in the company name and the deeds are publically available. |
| 17:06 |
mircea_popescu |
which nick was this ? |
| 17:07 |
The20YearIRCloud |
it was either this one or the20year |
| 17:07 |
mircea_popescu |
;;isup landaccess.com |
| 17:07 |
gribble |
landaccess.com is down |
| 17:07 |
mircea_popescu |
that the right url ? |
| 17:07 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I think they require a www. on the name |
| 17:07 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Shows that it's up for me |
| 17:08 |
mircea_popescu |
lmao the www thing still an issue on teh webs huh. |
| 17:08 |
The20YearIRCloud |
It is with a rural area like ours. |
| 17:08 |
dub |
its not a proper website without!@ |
| 17:09 |
The20YearIRCloud |
We had a whole conversation about how we use deeds in Ohio and not torrens titles |
| 17:09 |
The20YearIRCloud |
You can also use the auditor to try and look up the data ,but depending on the county, some auditors are more than a year behind on their record updates. |
| 17:09 |
dub |
wow |
| 17:10 |
dub |
is it 2014 in Ohio? |
| 17:10 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Depends on the county |
| 17:10 |
mircea_popescu |
grep -n "landaccess" FreeNode-the20yearircloud.log FreeNode-the20year.log comes up emtpy. |
| 17:10 |
mircea_popescu |
musta been a diff nick. |
| 17:10 |
The20YearIRCloud |
There are counties near us that do not have online access outside of the office specific intranet. You have to call and ask for emails. |
| 17:10 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Possibly, it would have been via PM and not chat log |
| 17:10 |
mircea_popescu |
all pms are logged. |
| 17:11 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, im pretty sure i never actually evaluated either the site involved or w/e it contained. im entirely unsure why is this not public again ? |
| 17:11 |
mircea_popescu |
how's property register work other than as a public matter. |
| 17:11 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Those are the only two I can think of that i'd use. At any rate I just sent you links to two different auditors, between those two there's 10 different units. |
| 17:12 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Because I had threats 6 months back from people online that they'd call the tenants and threaten em. |
| 17:12 |
mircea_popescu |
nuts. |
| 17:12 |
dub |
how does murica have unemployment with this insane inefficiency |
| 17:13 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Not sure |
| 17:13 |
mircea_popescu |
dub it only has unemployment in the cities :D |
| 17:13 |
The20YearIRCloud |
The same counties that are intra-net only have the entire county on one giant CAD file that's accurate to within a few centimeters |
| 17:13 |
The20YearIRCloud |
None of it really makes sense. |
| 17:15 |
ben_vulpes |
you can say that again |
| 17:16 |
dub |
I can grab basic detail of any property in my countRy from a single web GIS interface for free, its then $50 for complete records of every time someone farted near it |
| 17:17 |
The20YearIRCloud |
But, at any rate, the individuals on our BOA have access to bank records and property deeds/addresses. Additionally I've re-sent a link to MP just now showing one county's records on us. |
| 17:17 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Columbus Oh is like that, the records are fantastic, with additional property photos (not google earth/streetview ones) that the assessor has taken of each home in the county. |
| 17:17 |
mircea_popescu |
;;ud boa |
| 17:17 |
gribble |
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BoA | A 17 year old Korean singer who has also learned to speak Japanese, Chinese, and English. Her name is acutally Kwon Boa. Currently has 4 Japanese a... |
| 17:18 |
The20YearIRCloud |
board of advisors. We built a committe that goes over all the company's financials and details once or twice a month. |
| 17:18 |
mircea_popescu |
well, any of 'em in the wot ? |
| 17:19 |
The20YearIRCloud |
I'll have to ask, our goal is to build personal profile pages with things like FB & linkedin profile pages, could include WoT data too. |
| 17:20 |
The20YearIRCloud |
Big thing has been to have em look over all the financial documents as we're filing taxes for 2014 next month and I didn't want to submit till they had a good idea of it. |
| 17:21 |
* |
asciilifeform can't resist any longer: |
| 17:21 |
asciilifeform |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-06-2014#699078 |
| 17:21 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-06-2014 18:30:38; mircea_popescu: Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations competent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cat |
| 17:21 |
mircea_popescu |
dub yeah but the us doesn't generally even have torrens deeds. |
| 17:21 |
mircea_popescu |
being the most democratically advanced democratic advancement. |
| 17:21 |
asciilifeform |
(from 'strategic superiority' article by mircea_popescu) |
| 17:21 |
* |
asciilifeform always wondered if 'rentalstarter' walks perilously close to the electric fence described therein |
| 17:22 |
mircea_popescu |
!up has-question |
| 17:24 |
mircea_popescu |
mats http://trilema.com/2014/the-romanian-language-for-other-people/#comment-110501 but hey, props for first try. |
| 17:24 |
assbot |
The Romanian language for other people. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1yJ0Tin ) |
| 17:26 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/media/2113/rpilogo-final.gif << doesn't this look sorta like a toilet bowl ? |
| 17:26 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1yJ1oZI ) |
| 17:26 |
jurov |
to me it looks like deep decolt |
| 17:27 |
jurov |
decolletage |
| 17:27 |
mircea_popescu |
a nipple should be involved |
| 17:28 |
jurov |
how is that cut in the cloth called in english? |
| 17:28 |
mircea_popescu |
cleavage |
| 17:28 |
mircea_popescu |
also used for the skin itself tho. |
| 17:29 |
jurov |
ah |
| 17:29 |
mircea_popescu |
"Paragraph 16 of the resolution condemns Russia for selling arms to the Assad government in Syria. It does not mention, of course, that those weapons are going to fight ISIS which we claim is the enemy -- while the US weapons supplied to the rebels in Syria have actually found their way into the hands of ISIS!" |
| 17:29 |
mircea_popescu |
bwahahaha. |
| 17:29 |
mircea_popescu |
poor ron paul. |
| 17:29 |
undata |
I've met him a few times |
| 17:30 |
mircea_popescu |
i wonder what it's like, you know, man captive in the monkey cage @ zoo. |
| 17:30 |
mircea_popescu |
he's been stuck there what, 70 years ? |
| 17:30 |
undata |
I admire old cranky bastards that stick to their guns |
| 17:30 |
mircea_popescu |
sure. |
| 17:31 |
mircea_popescu |
"How does Congress get away with such blatant falsehoods? Do Members not even bother to read these resolutions before voting?" |
| 17:31 |
mircea_popescu |
in a word, members of congress aren't really that far above executive associates at jack in the box. |
| 17:31 |
mircea_popescu |
they just do what "their job is". |
| 17:31 |
undata |
poor guy thought the US myth was a real thing |
| 17:32 |
mircea_popescu |
apparently still does. |
| 17:32 |
undata |
reminds me of various family members... "if we'd only get back to the *constitution*!" |
| 17:33 |
undata |
the US constitution and laws resulted in this; this is therefore what a USA *does* |
| 17:34 |
mircea_popescu |
This dangerous legislation passed today, December 4, with only ten (!) votes against! Only ten legislators are concerned over the use of blatant propaganda and falsehoods to push such reckless saber-rattling toward Russia. Amash, Duncan, Grayson, Hastings, Jones, Massie, McDermott, Miller, ORourke, Rohrabacher. |
| 17:36 |
mod6 |
those ten probably just hit the wrong voting button. margin of error or something. |
| 17:37 |
mircea_popescu |
ouch |
| 17:37 |
undata |
there are a small but nonzero amount of US politicians that are pro-market and anti-war |
| 17:37 |
asciilifeform |
!s ineducable |
| 17:37 |
assbot |
1 results for 'ineducable' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ineducable |
| 17:37 |
mod6 |
i imagine these guys just sit there allday looking at pornhub and playing flappy bird on their new galaxy 5s IF they even show up to the session |
| 17:37 |
undata |
haha |
| 17:39 |
asciilifeform |
the hunchback will be straightened by his grave. |
| 17:39 |
mircea_popescu |
!up badon |
| 17:39 |
punkman |
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2onm5r/blockchaininfo_security_disclosure/cmosxbw |
| 17:40 |
undata |
I think one of Ron Paul's best thoughts was to allow competition of currencies |
| 17:42 |
undata |
this was well before bitcoin |
| 17:43 |
asciilifeform |
bci << assuming story is genuine, betcha folks will still make glassy eyes 'wtf, academic' when told about rng and ecdsa nonces |
| 17:44 |
mircea_popescu |
good for em lol. |
| 17:44 |
asciilifeform |
'what you don't know, won't hurt you. it will only decapitate you in one bite and eat the carcass for lunch.' |
| 17:44 |
asciilifeform |
!s cold equations |
| 17:44 |
assbot |
10 results for 'cold equations' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cold+equations |
| 17:45 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2onm5r/blockchaininfo_security_disclosure/cmotm6w |
| 17:46 |
assbot |
buddhamangler comments on Blockchain.info Security Disclosure ... ( http://bit.ly/1yJ4KMp ) |
| 17:46 |
punkman |
BingoBoingo: apparently not fixed yet https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581411.msg9778074#msg9778074 |
| 17:46 |
assbot |
Reused R values again ... ( http://bit.ly/1yJ4NaZ ) |
| 17:47 |
asciilifeform |
how is a safety-critical, rng-dependent process living in a www browser again ? |
| 17:47 |
asciilifeform |
or dare i even ask. |
| 17:47 |
asciilifeform |
(when first heard of this scandal, assumed it was a server-side snafu) |
| 17:48 |
punkman |
this joehoe guy made a nice sum today |
| 17:49 |
punkman |
"Dude you took from my address, I was saving up for my family for christmas and you went and stolen it this morning.. Please have the heart to give it back, PMing you now" |
| 17:50 |
punkman |
I hope he doesn't give anything back |
| 17:50 |
mircea_popescu |
heh. |
| 17:50 |
mircea_popescu |
"went and stolen" eh. shoulda saved for school. |
| 17:50 |
punkman |
"One of these address' is mine, can you place contact me, I can provide proof with screen shots or teamview." |
| 17:50 |
mircea_popescu |
holy shit already. |
| 17:50 |
undata |
please thief, have a heart! |
| 17:50 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform btw, that's the future. fucking teamviewer. |
| 17:50 |
punkman |
;;seen dimsler |
| 17:51 |
undata |
save christmas! |
| 17:51 |
gribble |
dimsler was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 2 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <Dimsler> lol |
| 17:51 |
undata |
man I hate people |
| 17:51 |
mircea_popescu |
what the us ~~~citizen~~~ expects of its government, after the tsa-at-airport free masturbation test drive |
| 17:51 |
punkman |
last quote was from a "dimsler" |
| 17:51 |
mircea_popescu |
is to play the teamviewer bdsm mistress for free. |
| 17:51 |
asciilifeform |
should've saved for burial. |
| 17:51 |
asciilifeform |
as such - biodiesel candidate. |
| 17:51 |
mircea_popescu |
there's going to be a special agency specialised in giving orders to random derps via teamviewer. |
| 17:51 |
mircea_popescu |
"take off your clothes. jack off. vote this on reddit." |
| 17:51 |
asciilifeform |
'teamviewer'? 'back orifice' circa 1999 is back !? |
| 17:51 |
mircea_popescu |
ITD BE EASIER |
| 17:52 |
mircea_popescu |
teamviewer is its own kind of braindamage. |
| 17:52 |
asciilifeform |
from the last article mentioning it - appears to be exactly 'back orifice' |
| 17:52 |
undata |
stuff like that is installed on every "point of sale" system on earth, too |
| 17:52 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform nah, gui. |
| 17:52 |
asciilifeform |
bo had gui! |
| 17:52 |
undata |
by people who think having your network use static IPs is more secure |
| 17:52 |
mircea_popescu |
o it did ? thjen nm me |
| 17:52 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5683 @ 0.0005079 = 2.8864 BTC [-] |
| 17:53 |
asciilifeform |
but, as i understood, backorifice was thought to be obsolete since xp ver. 3 when microshit baked it right into winblows |
| 17:53 |
mircea_popescu |
lol |
| 17:53 |
asciilifeform |
(yes, it did 'remote admin' or sumthinglikethat) |
| 17:53 |
asciilifeform |
'rdesktop.' |
| 17:53 |
mod6 |
haha |
| 17:54 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.cultdeadcow.com/tools/bo.html |
| 17:54 |
assbot |
Worst Case Scenario ... ( http://bit.ly/1yJ6fKG ) |
| 17:54 |
asciilifeform |
^ preserved in amber |
| 17:54 |
punkman |
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2oo72b/victim_100_bitcoins_stolen_from_blockchaininfo/cmoyiky |
| 17:54 |
assbot |
blockchainwallet comments on VICTIM: 100 Bitcoins STOLEN from blockchain.info Wallet during the Security Leak 12/7/2014 ... ( http://bit.ly/1yJ6iGk ) |
| 17:54 |
undata |
sub7 was another |
| 17:54 |
* |
undata recalls sending friends song.mp3.exe in high school |
| 17:57 |
asciilifeform |
five minute research suggests that folks began to use 'teamviewer' and similar orifices for remote control of winblows/mac machines from toy computer |
| 17:58 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform by now it's this very special social behaviour, lemme tell you the long story. |
| 17:59 |
* |
asciilifeform prepares for a yarn involving mutually-masturbatory use of winblows config menus |
| 17:59 |
punkman |
"Private Key Recovery Combination Attacks: On Extreme Fragility of Popular Bitcoin. Key Management, Wallet and Cold Storage Solutions." http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/848.pdf |
| 17:59 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1yJ7hWN ) |
| 17:59 |
mircea_popescu |
inept "hiring"/"outsourcing" websites, modelled after get a freelancer (which has been in fact on an insane buying spree, they recently swallowed up warrior forum - the epicenter of those idiotic "infoproducts" consisting of yellow underlined text and a fetishistic "box" with reflections and whatnot) |
| 18:00 |
mircea_popescu |
promote a particularly insane view of hiring, where to hire someone for an hour is essentially a nonsexual camwhoring arrangement. you're to tell the op what to do, as micromanagement-y as moving their own hands. |
| 18:00 |
mircea_popescu |
the software platform this nonsense happens on is teamviewer (and before that, and to some degree supporting it today, skype) |
| 18:01 |
mircea_popescu |
so, all over the world right now, tons of people wasting each other's time in pairs, like retarded marmocets trying to move a ball across the field. |
| 18:01 |
asciilifeform |
lol! i imagined that the masturbee must pay the masturbator, in such an arrangement |
| 18:01 |
asciilifeform |
never would have conceived of the reverse. |
| 18:01 |
mircea_popescu |
yeah welll.... |
| 18:01 |
mircea_popescu |
people enjoy simcity right ? |
| 18:02 |
mircea_popescu |
it's essentially for the masturbator "play an elaborate sort of sims while pretending to be at work" |
| 18:02 |
asciilifeform |
but you don't move the 'sim |
| 18:02 |
asciilifeform |
's |
| 18:02 |
cazalla |
mircea_popescu: cazalla nice publish srsly. <<< would've made a summary but was late |
| 18:02 |
mircea_popescu |
and for the masturbated, "let the superior white man do things for you for a few dollars" |
| 18:02 |
asciilifeform |
arms and legs |
| 18:02 |
mircea_popescu |
so it works out great for all the parts involved : corporations pay ; their employees are kept out of trouble ; third worlders eat. |
| 18:03 |
mircea_popescu |
it's a modern solution to a modern problem. meanwhile actual people can get on with their actual work unmolested. |
| 18:03 |
asciilifeform |
the enigma of where a creature involved in this perversion would have obtained btc - remains |
| 18:03 |
mircea_popescu |
but he told you. |
| 18:03 |
mircea_popescu |
saving for xmas. |
| 18:03 |
asciilifeform |
saving requires obtaining, nein ? |
| 18:03 |
mircea_popescu |
obviously the serious ethical violation and outrageous immorality of them having any btc is why <punkman> I hope he doesn't give anything back |
| 18:04 |
mircea_popescu |
lemme find this log line for you. |
| 18:04 |
asciilifeform |
more ethical to give children blasting caps to play with |
| 18:04 |
asciilifeform |
at least problem in the latter is self-correcting |
| 18:05 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-12-2014#942523 |
| 18:05 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-12-2014 17:36:10; xanthyos: 0.25925176 BTC will arrive in your My Wallet account on Monday Dec 8, 2014. |
| 18:05 |
mircea_popescu |
normally it's a tenth that or less tho. |
| 18:06 |
asciilifeform |
who has publicly cried over a tenth ? |
| 18:06 |
asciilifeform |
stolen, misplaced, or otherwise |
| 18:06 |
mircea_popescu |
but saving! |
| 18:06 |
mircea_popescu |
coupla bitcents every week. eventually it adds up to something worth stealing. |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 18:27 |
punkman |
from linked paper: "The analysis is very disturbing: it appears that the bitcoin core client has NOT yet finalized the process of several security upgrades which propose a solution to this problem (deterministic random generation) event though a first solution was already submitted in January 2013" |
| |
↖ |
| 18:27 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18500 @ 0.00053584 = 9.913 BTC [+] {2} |
| 18:29 |
asciilifeform |
'deterministic random generation' |
| 18:30 |
punkman |
the R value thing, instead of using RNG, you can just hash tx+key or something like that. |
| 18:30 |
punkman |
so the Android wallets don't break again |
| 18:31 |
asciilifeform |
Android wallets << why even necessary ? |
| 18:31 |
asciilifeform |
i just don't get it |
| 18:31 |
punkman |
me neither, I use dumbphone |
| 18:31 |
mircea_popescu |
im not all that convinced deterministic generation (nothing random about it) is such a brilliant idea. |
| 18:32 |
mircea_popescu |
sure, it makes it easier for idiots to use bitcoin, |
| 18:32 |
mircea_popescu |
meanwhile it also makes it easier for everyone's wallets to be broken |
| 18:32 |
* |
asciilifeform is breaking his brain trying to grasp who thought it was a good idea, in what application, and why |
| 18:33 |
punkman |
it makes sense for this little thing |
| 18:33 |
asciilifeform |
how? |
| 18:33 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform web "programmers" |
| 18:33 |
mircea_popescu |
little men in little cubical spaces doing little things in little excel cells. |
| 18:33 |
punkman |
because accidental re-use even from different users can reveal keys in various ways |
| 18:33 |
asciilifeform |
ok, the 'who' is settled. but the forensic psychiatrist in me is not satisfied - why ? |
| 18:33 |
punkman |
so if you hash tx+something, that's not gonna happen |
| 18:34 |
asciilifeform |
not gonna happen >> |
| 18:34 |
asciilifeform |
!s randomly wired |
| 18:34 |
assbot |
6 results for 'randomly wired' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=randomly+wired |
| 18:34 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform the problem only appears if r values are equal |
| 18:34 |
mircea_popescu |
if hashing or w/e other prngsauce is used, it won't be equal. |
| 18:35 |
asciilifeform |
unless can factor out 'sauce' |
| 18:35 |
mircea_popescu |
ofcourse the actual random r is a general class solution, and provably stronger than prng r for general applications. |
| 18:35 |
mircea_popescu |
well of course. |
| 18:35 |
asciilifeform |
who recalls the tcp sequence number bugs ? |
| 18:35 |
mircea_popescu |
hence my comment above |
| 18:35 |
mircea_popescu |
myeah, somethinglike that. |
| 18:35 |
asciilifeform |
;;google tcp sequence number vulnerability |
| 18:35 |
gribble |
TCP sequence prediction attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_sequence_prediction_attack>; Multiple Vendor TCP Sequence Number Approximation Vulnerability: <http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10183/discuss>; TCP Sequence Prediction Attack - The Tech-FAQ: <http://www.tech-faq.com/tcp-sequence-prediction-attack.html> |
| 18:44 |
BingoBoingo |
More random drama http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=141807224826859&w=2 |
| 18:44 |
assbot |
'Violating randomization standards' - MARC ... ( http://bit.ly/1qn4GAc ) |
| 18:45 |
mircea_popescu |
o wait, there be standards ? |
| 18:45 |
mircea_popescu |
am i the only one that sees the homeric lulz involved ? |
| 18:46 |
mircea_popescu |
oh the use of srandom etc. myea. |
| 18:47 |
mircea_popescu |
"The reasons for this are history not known to me, but it might even be linked to Dual_EC_DRBG." <, is, afaik. |
| 18:47 |
BingoBoingo |
Indeed. "To satisfy portable code, srand() may be called to initialize the subsystem. In OpenBSD the seed variable is ignored, and strong random number results will be provided from arc4random(3.) In other systems, the seed variable primes a simplistic deterministic algorithm. If the standardized behavior is required srand_deterministic() can be substituted for srand(), then subsequent rand() calls will return results using the d |
| 18:47 |
BingoBoingo |
eterministic algorithm." |
| 18:47 |
asciilifeform |
for once, i dare suggest that more mundane - most programmers, historically, don't want 'random', but 'random-flavoured but ultimately reproducible' for testing of games, toys, etc |
| 18:48 |
asciilifeform |
the difference - at least, once was - taught in school, wherever folks were introduced to the machine |
| 18:50 |
punkman |
" They will suddenly see strong randomization where they did not before. There may be a few broken because the have a deeply hidden dependency on determinism. Sorry, but that is what it is going to take." |
| 19:03 |
asciilifeform |
http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html << still b0rk3d ? |
| 19:03 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1v8bGwz ) |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
| 19:29 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27947 @ 0.0005414 = 15.1305 BTC [+] {3} |
| 19:43 |
ben_vulpes |
asciilifeform: nope its a feature not a bug |
| 19:43 |
ben_vulpes |
like emacs default keybindings |
| 19:43 |
asciilifeform |
wat |
| 19:43 |
ben_vulpes |
identifies the observant |
| 19:43 |
ben_vulpes |
it's a feature! |
| 19:47 |
undata |
gentoo/emacs/bitcoind quest |
| 19:47 |
ben_vulpes |
bitcoind quest |
| 19:47 |
ben_vulpes |
indeed |
| 19:47 |
asciilifeform |
what do gentoo and emacs to do with it ? |
| 19:47 |
asciilifeform |
i mean, they both live here with me |
| 19:48 |
asciilifeform |
but what else. |
| 19:48 |
ben_vulpes |
exercise for etc etc etc |
| 19:48 |
asciilifeform |
perfectly-functioning household objects, not deserving of insult of comparison with bitcoind |
| 19:48 |
asciilifeform |
wholesome, inoffensive things. |
| 19:48 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14950 @ 0.00051918 = 7.7617 BTC [-] |
| 19:50 |
BingoBoingo |
http://qntra.net/2014/12/ethan-burnside-fined-by-sec/ |
| 19:50 |
assbot |
Ethan Burnside Fined By SEC | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/160VdFO ) |
| 19:50 |
scoopbot |
New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/ethan-burnside-fined-by-sec/ |
| 19:52 |
BingoBoingo |
!up PeterL Congrats on keeping scoopbot up so long |
| 19:52 |
PeterL |
oh, thanks |
| 19:52 |
PeterL |
I finally figured out what was wrong |
| 19:53 |
PeterL |
It was taking time to check blogs for updates, and so would not respond to pings |
| 19:53 |
PeterL |
I put the blog checking onto a separate thread, and now it does not get kicked off from missed pings |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
| 20:26 |
mircea_popescu |
o hey. |
| 20:26 |
ben_vulpes |
http://entire.spacebar.org/ |
| 20:26 |
assbot |
Entire Screen of One Game ... ( http://bit.ly/1vy2XE5 ) |
| 20:26 |
mircea_popescu |
!up PeterL |
| 20:27 |
PeterL |
o hi |
| 20:27 |
mircea_popescu |
heh so the sec is settling with all the actual scammers eh. |
| 20:31 |
PeterL |
what about football scammers? oh wait, the other SEC (I must ahve been reading too much bowl game previews) |
| 20:33 |
mircea_popescu |
heh |
| 20:34 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.00054753 = 15.3856 BTC [+] {2} |
| 20:35 |
BingoBoingo |
PeterL: Mizzou got a New Years day game. Happy with the lack of scam there from the SEC. |
| 20:36 |
PeterL |
Mich State got a better bowl |
| 20:36 |
BingoBoingo |
For some definitions of better. Good for them. |
| 20:36 |
PeterL |
Mizzou should win |
| 20:37 |
BingoBoingo |
They better. We need to start recruiting 300 pounders for our lines so maybe next time we can actually make plays against Alabama by means other than accident. |
| 20:37 |
BingoBoingo |
!up jborkl |
| 20:37 |
PeterL |
Michigan State will win if they fix the holes exposed by Oregon and Ohio State (Baylor plays a similar spread offence to those teams) |
| 20:37 |
jborkl |
Hola |
| 20:37 |
BingoBoingo |
hey jborkl |
| 20:38 |
jborkl |
Hows it going |
| 20:38 |
BingoBoingo |
Not bad |
| 20:38 |
BingoBoingo |
http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Dec/28 |
| 20:38 |
assbot |
Full Disclosure: Coinbase User Enumeration ... ( http://bit.ly/1qnycG3 ) |
| 20:40 |
jborkl |
Sweet, great job coinbase security |
| 20:40 |
BingoBoingo |
So ran out to Grandpa's to replace the batteries in his TV remote. On the way to the store from his place say a big ass shooting star with a definite green tint. |
| 20:40 |
jborkl |
Very cool |
| 20:41 |
BingoBoingo |
Wonder if the lizards had something to do with it. |
| 20:41 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29197 @ 0.00055103 = 16.0884 BTC [+] {2} |
| 20:45 |
ben_vulpes |
noice |
| 20:47 |
BingoBoingo |
Either that it was the avians comping to displace the lizards |
| 20:49 |
mircea_popescu |
ahahahaha |
| 20:49 |
mircea_popescu |
BingoBoingo qntraaaa |
| 20:51 |
mircea_popescu |
meh on 2nd hand this isn't even worth the mention, and also ancient. |
| 20:51 |
mircea_popescu |
nm |
| 20:52 |
BingoBoingo |
right |
| 20:53 |
mircea_popescu |
for a momet iu got excited :p |
| 20:54 |
BingoBoingo |
It's old news that popped up in my twatter feed again, prolly as part of some cold PR war between the web wallet turds |
| 20:59 |
BingoBoingo |
!up iang |
| 20:59 |
BingoBoingo |
Hello iang |
| 20:59 |
iang |
hi. |
| 20:59 |
mircea_popescu |
ello |
| 20:59 |
BingoBoingo |
So in early bookmaking it looks like they are only giving a 2.5 point spread in the Bitcoin Bowl. That isn't even a field goal |
| 21:01 |
BingoBoingo |
iang: Are you the person danielpbarron pointed here? |
| 21:01 |
iang |
hmm maybe. Not sure who danielpbarron is tho |
| 21:02 |
iang |
although he’s not sure who I am either ;-) |
| 21:02 |
BingoBoingo |
Ah, apparently someone whose nick is a similar string of letters to yours encountered him on the twatter earleir today |
| 21:03 |
mircea_popescu |
;;ident iang |
| 21:03 |
gribble |
Nick 'iang', with hostmask 'iang!~iang@skaro.afraid.org', is not identified. |
| 21:03 |
mircea_popescu |
;;ident danielpbarron |
| 21:03 |
gribble |
Nick 'danielpbarron', with hostmask 'danielpbarron!~dpb@c-71-232-150-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net', is not identified. |
| 21:03 |
mircea_popescu |
i guess nobody's anybody :D |
| 21:03 |
BingoBoingo |
But... gribble's back |
| 21:04 |
iang |
yup, not sure I can help, there are a few of us :D |
| 21:06 |
mircea_popescu |
iang so about this two decade cryptohistory of yours ? |
| 21:07 |
iang |
mmm… got a decade? |
| 21:07 |
iang |
I could explain ;-) |
| 21:07 |
mircea_popescu |
proof beats explanation. |
| 21:08 |
mircea_popescu |
got a pgp key made in 96 you can link and sign with ? |
| 21:08 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34153 @ 0.00055572 = 18.9795 BTC [+] {2} |
| 21:08 |
iang |
hmmm. possibly but I’d have to go digging into detritus |
| 21:09 |
mircea_popescu |
probably the most important thing you can say right off. |
| 21:10 |
BingoBoingo |
I couldn't imagine anything more fun |
| 21:14 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46200 @ 0.0005079 = 23.465 BTC [-] |
| 21:16 |
BingoBoingo |
People suck at naming themselves http://fusion.net/story/32623/sony-pictures-hack-exposes-hollywood-celebrities-secret-aliases/ |
| 21:16 |
assbot |
Sony Pictures hack exposes Hollywood celebrities' secret aliases -- Fusion ... ( http://bit.ly/1G8iZfK ) |
| 21:19 |
iang |
hmmm.. well I’m theoretically limited to 2000 and even that is hard coz gpg doesn’t play nice |
| 21:19 |
hanbot |
why 2000? |
| 21:20 |
iang |
the earliest key I have a password for, it seems |
| 21:20 |
iang |
or, the earliest that the current keyring admits to. |
| 21:20 |
hanbot |
oh that. still, 2000 much better than nothing. |
| 21:21 |
BingoBoingo |
Not everybody rocks at data retention. |
| 21:21 |
iang |
some things should stay buried under rocks |
| 21:21 |
hanbot |
not one's past. |
| 21:23 |
iang |
In 2000 I was building precious metal exchanges. And staying out of trouble. Which almost snapped shut on me, the whole e-gold story :( |
| 21:24 |
iang |
Luckily I’d sent an email to the founders that said “you’re gonna get busted if you don’t fix it” and that told the feds I wasn’t their drone |
| 21:24 |
iang |
back in the days when we had only single servers and only single operators and only tunnel vision |
| 21:25 |
BingoBoingo |
Ah, I had recently discovered hypercard around that time |
| 21:25 |
iang |
rings a bell! remind me? |
| 21:26 |
undata |
non-web hyperlink programming environment for the mac |
| 21:26 |
BingoBoingo |
iang: It's the programming environment that shipped on the last of the real Macs. I had picked some up at an auction my school had and was playing with them as my first computers |
| 21:26 |
undata |
"hypermedia" I guess |
| 21:27 |
iang |
right… I recall the Mac people were emotional about it |
| 21:27 |
BingoBoingo |
http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568 << asciilifeform's elegy for the beast |
| 21:27 |
assbot |
Loper OS » Why Hypercard Had to Die ... ( http://bit.ly/1G8knz8 ) |
| 21:28 |
BingoBoingo |
At the time I had yet to have a computer at home so I bought a bunch of computers and spares for about $10 a pop |
| 21:29 |
BingoBoingo |
!up iang |
| 21:29 |
asciilifeform |
BingoBoingo: i must confess that i sometimes regret crapping out that piece. i still get mail from folks who think that i liked 'hypertalk' language. |
| 21:30 |
hanbot |
oh you didn't? |
| 21:30 |
BingoBoingo |
The language itself sucked |
| 21:30 |
asciilifeform |
ding ding ding prize |
| 21:30 |
undata |
truly wretched syntax |
| 21:30 |
undata |
trying to be like natural language |
| 21:31 |
asciilifeform |
it was quite educational in that respect (in the sense of demonstrating, to anyone with half a brain, the inescapable folly of 'natural language' programming) |
| 21:31 |
BingoBoingo |
the environment, and the potential of the environment... |
| 21:32 |
BingoBoingo |
https://github.com/blockchain/My-Wallet/commit/98d5a7ca59ef04d06ac6aee468634b12975a0f5c |
| 21:32 |
assbot |
Improvments to RNG · 98d5a7c · blockchain/My-Wallet · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1G8kZ82 ) |
| 21:32 |
asciilifeform |
actually i did not (as an adult, at least) see any actual 'potential' in it - in the sense of 'what could have grown from it' |
| 21:32 |
asciilifeform |
more as a demonstration of how a programming system ought to behave in the general sense |
| 21:35 |
BingoBoingo |
But as a demonstration. |
| 21:37 |
BingoBoingo |
The only environment I've ever been similarly confident with was the old "Hot Dog HTML" that was included on the web design for dummies book cd at the local library |
| 21:37 |
mircea_popescu |
iang well alternatively there's always the half year's lurking an' reading logs. |
| 21:38 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform incidentally, until such a time as natural language works for coding, there won't be the "evil ai" whatever guy's worried about. |
| 21:39 |
asciilifeform |
BingoBoingo: as a boy, i often thought that i would grow up, 'have money', and buy an apple computer - at least to try it (the crippled machines at schools, etc. were an interesting diversion, and i imagined that mac is 'rich man's computer' somehow) |
| |
↖ |
| 21:39 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23906 @ 0.0005079 = 12.1419 BTC [-] |
| 21:40 |
asciilifeform |
BingoBoingo: didn't happen. not that i don't own enough junk, incl. apples of every period, to fill a small scrapyard - but i wanted living 'butterfly' not zoological specimen preserved in glass |
| 21:40 |
asciilifeform |
BingoBoingo: the company 'apple' died, in '99, replaced silently with 'next'. but you knew this. |
| 21:41 |
BingoBoingo |
asciilifeform: Summer before college I though I'd buy a new Apple on their financing, had not realized company had died. Mercifully was declined and got a used Dell Latitude. |
| 21:41 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: 'natural language' for a program makes the same amount of sense as for mathematics. atrociously inefficient and requires very 'unnatural' concessions of rigour or at least standardized disambiguations. |
| 21:42 |
mircea_popescu |
yes but you're aware i was discussing danger. |
| 21:43 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu is probably thinking of a hypothetical machine that emulates a living programmer and can be 'made friends with' and spoken to, describing what he wants. in that case - yes |
| 21:43 |
mircea_popescu |
a purely mathematical language won't ever matter politically. |
| 21:43 |
BingoBoingo |
Didn't realize apple died till junior year of college when I got an iPod to replace a Rio MP3 player and was introduced to iTunes |
| 21:43 |
asciilifeform |
what means 'matter politically' ? |
| 21:43 |
asciilifeform |
used by men fighting one another? |
| 21:43 |
asciilifeform |
in that case even 'visual basic' qualifies! |
| 21:45 |
asciilifeform |
BingoBoingo: it is interesting to see how apple corp. (the renamed 'next', not the original) put to use its total monopoly in portable computerized gadgets not immediately discardable as junk to push perverse anachronisms that would have been laughed off if from another (weird proprietary cabling, required closed-source 'sync' apps, etc.) |
| 21:45 |
mircea_popescu |
http://cdn.collarspace.com/photos/2036091.jpg << said ai. |
| 21:45 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1G8mMcY ) |
| 21:46 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform nah, to be its own thing, posing a threat. |
| 21:46 |
mircea_popescu |
who was that guy all worried about hostile ai ? |
| 21:46 |
undata |
elon musk and stephen hawking have been saying things |
| 21:46 |
asciilifeform |
yudkowsky et al ? |
| 21:46 |
mircea_popescu |
right. |
| 21:47 |
undata |
yudkowsky worships at its altar |
| 21:47 |
asciilifeform |
undata: mr y is the master octopus |
| 21:47 |
mircea_popescu |
they're thinking of a politically relevant ai. |
| 21:47 |
mircea_popescu |
that's different from a mathematically bound ai, no matter how clever |
| 21:47 |
asciilifeform |
the others - simply read nth-generation spew from him |
| 21:47 |
mircea_popescu |
perhaps this latter also different from a purely numeric ai |
| 21:47 |
undata |
I'm personally much more near-term concerned with ever-cheaper guns/bombs with propellers |
| 21:48 |
BingoBoingo |
asciilifeform: Apple, the heritage company was never entirely innocent on the cabling front (Apple desktop bus, etc) The portable gadgets yes did demand a still more grotesque submission. Thankfully pawn shops love Apple shit. |
| 21:48 |
undata |
things which take lat/lng and desired size of crater as input |
| 21:49 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: mr y & friends believe in an ai equivalent of fermi's 'ignition of the atmosphere' hypothetical catastrophe. |
| 21:50 |
mircea_popescu |
undata there's excellent reasons not to worry about that. |
| 21:50 |
cazalla |
BingoBoingo: The only environment I've ever been similarly confident with was the old "Hot Dog HTML" that was included on the web design for dummies book cd at the local library <<< lol sausage software, my uncle never shut up about these guys |
| 21:50 |
asciilifeform |
if you give a damn re: what this means, invite one of them in. i can't muster the strength to defend the nonsense, even as 'devil's advocate' |
| 21:50 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform incidentally, you know said ignition happened once already. |
| 21:51 |
asciilifeform |
'bang' ? |
| 21:51 |
asciilifeform |
not really analogous, if it |
| 21:51 |
BingoBoingo |
cazalla: Compared to the adobe turds at the highschool it was elegant |
| 21:52 |
cazalla |
BingoBoingo, i never used it, i was maybe 15-16 at the time and muh uncle constantly telling me to buy shares in sausage software |
| 21:52 |
BingoBoingo |
Also worked on the dumpster 486 packard bell with windows 3.1 |
| 21:57 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform no, not at all. |
| 21:57 |
mircea_popescu |
originally earth was under a methane atmosphere |
| 21:57 |
mircea_popescu |
then the first optional aerobes were spawned. |
| 21:57 |
asciilifeform |
nah fermi's thing was about a fissile chain-reaction. |
| 21:57 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36547 @ 0.00050221 = 18.3543 BTC [-] {4} |
| 21:58 |
asciilifeform |
he was, at first, not able to show that it would not span the entire solid earth plus atmosphere. |
| 21:58 |
asciilifeform |
this bothered the more neurotic types in 'manhattan project.' |
| 22:00 |
mircea_popescu |
yeah. |
| 22:00 |
BingoBoingo |
!up iang |
| 22:01 |
iang |
hmmm… you have to sit there and do that every 30 mins? |
| 22:01 |
asciilifeform |
strictly speaking, he doesn't. |
| 22:02 |
assbot |
Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1HQRBHF.txt ) |
| 22:02 |
mircea_popescu |
!b 2 |
| 22:03 |
BingoBoingo |
iang: You could produce a GPG keypair and register with the gribble bot |
| 22:04 |
iang |
ah, is that something my IRC client needs to be aware of ? |
| 22:04 |
BingoBoingo |
iang: Nah, happens all over pm's |
| 22:05 |
BingoBoingo |
http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/04/11_bitcoin-assets-new-wot-and-voice-model.html |
| 22:05 |
assbot |
#bitcoin-assets new WoT and voice model ... ( http://bit.ly/1G8pi2Y ) |
| 22:07 |
iang |
hmmm, you are alleged to befriend trolls |
| 22:08 |
BingoBoingo |
Pretty sure everyone on the interent is at some point. |
| 22:08 |
BingoBoingo |
Similarly everyone on the internet is themself alleged to be a troll at some point on a long enough timeline |
| 22:09 |
mircea_popescu |
on the internet, everyone knows you're a troll. |
| 22:09 |
iang |
yah. I remember (one of?) the last person I used to talk regularly with gpg would make keys every month and dispose of the old ones. I only talked to him maybe once a month so it didn’t last... |
| 22:09 |
asciilifeform |
disposed of old before - or after - signing key[n] with key[n-1] |
| 22:09 |
asciilifeform |
? |
| 22:10 |
iang |
oh, after, kept a merry chain posting into perpetuity |
| 22:10 |
asciilifeform |
then why problem ? |
| 22:11 |
BingoBoingo |
iang: Current best practice seems to be gen RSA/RSA and just make the it huge |
| 22:11 |
iang |
well, every month I’d send him an email and he’d send me back a request to use his new key :) |
| 22:11 |
BingoBoingo |
iang: Have you seen http://nosuchlabs.com/ yet? |
| 22:11 |
iang |
BingoBoingo: yup. I guess everyone’s got the message that the threat is on the node. |
| 22:12 |
BingoBoingo |
iang: yeah. I can see monthly pub key updates being a hassel if your big GPG use case is signatures |
| 22:12 |
iang |
ha, no. Is that based on the RNG problems that various platforms had? |
| 22:13 |
BingoBoingo |
iang: It's actually one of alf's toys |
| 22:13 |
asciilifeform |
not advertised, on account of being (so far) a null result |
| 22:14 |
iang |
seems to work better if I give it an RSA key ;-) |
| 22:14 |
asciilifeform |
also i have several million keys that wait to be thrown in (presently hosted in 'cloud' crapolade, cannot really handle serious work) |
| 22:15 |
BingoBoingo |
Well, I dunno of any better to gen keys with atm than RSA. |
| 22:15 |
asciilifeform |
every time someone mentions this, i ask 'btc hosting exists yet?' |
| 22:15 |
asciilifeform |
and then silence. |
| 22:16 |
BingoBoingo |
Silk Road auction payout? https://blockchain.info/address/1E9QDjSzUMuYdy4vePXxZhmkGeopkm1VfZ |
| 22:17 |
assbot |
Bitcoin Address 1E9QDjSzUMuYdy4vePXxZhmkGeopkm1VfZ ... ( http://bit.ly/1G8qKT6 ) |
| 22:27 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform lol. |
| 22:31 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 999 @ 0.001219 = 1.2178 BTC [+] |
| 22:32 |
BingoBoingo |
!up iang |
| 22:32 |
BingoBoingo |
!up devthedev |
| 22:32 |
iang |
ha, thanks. but crashing here, later. |
| 22:33 |
devthedev |
I can't join OTC, strange |
| 22:42 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00050485 = 15.8523 BTC [+] |
| 22:43 |
mircea_popescu |
!up badon |
| 22:53 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17785 @ 0.0004972 = 8.8427 BTC [-] {2} |
| 22:54 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.0004909 = 3.9763 BTC [-] |
| 22:55 |
asciilifeform |
https://download.wpsoftware.net << perverse |
| 22:55 |
assbot |
Index of / ... ( http://bit.ly/1w7rxR9 ) |
| 23:04 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34450 @ 0.00048618 = 16.7489 BTC [-] {2} |
| 23:06 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1mvqj3/bitcoin_wallet_will_not_sync_past_a_certain_point << lol |
| 23:06 |
assbot |
Bitcoin wallet will not sync past a certain point : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1z11b30 ) |
| 23:09 |
undata |
asciilifeform: I am going to have to read your loper-os blog all the way through |
| 23:09 |
asciilifeform |
lol why |
| 23:09 |
undata |
I recently worked for a guy who wanted to make a relational end user programming environment |
| 23:09 |
undata |
sadly it was in JS not lisp |
| 23:09 |
undata |
the relational part made a bit of sense |
| 23:10 |
asciilifeform |
https://forum.bitcoin.pl/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9987 << lol2 |
| 23:10 |
assbot |
Polskie Forum Bitcoin - Aktualizacja klienta Bitcoin : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1z11V8f ) |
| 23:11 |
undata |
the "mind extender" vector - rather than "derp this until any idiot can 'use' it" - is much more interesting |
| 23:12 |
undata |
and uh, by god don't make the thing out of the web |
| 23:12 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22817 @ 0.00048753 = 11.124 BTC [+] {2} |
| 23:12 |
asciilifeform |
http://freak.no/forum/showthread.php?t=262603 << lol3 |
| 23:12 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1z128bu ) |
| 23:13 |
undata |
the guy behind lighttable is now headed towards the same, calling it "eve" |
| 23:13 |
asciilifeform |
same what |
| 23:13 |
undata |
"end user programming" |
| 23:15 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.00050485 = 16.1552 BTC [+] |
| 23:16 |
undata |
http://lighttable.com/2014/07/18/imperative-thinking/ |
| 23:16 |
assbot |
Light Table Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1w7vm8R ) |
| 23:18 |
undata |
at my old job, we were creating a visual SQL editor as the primary way of fiddling this envisioned programming environment |
| 23:18 |
undata |
we produced a few cool things, among them this https://github.com/aquameta/pg_meta |
| 23:18 |
assbot |
aquameta/pg_meta · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1z131RC ) |
| 23:19 |
undata |
I left the company when I lost a conflict over whether we should shift focus from burning the founder's money to making money |
| 23:19 |
undata |
I haven't seen them release much else yet |
| 23:20 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00048154 = 11.3162 BTC [-] {3} |
| 23:20 |
undata |
that pg_meta embodies the approach; for everything, you make a data model |
| 23:20 |
undata |
you change things in the world by changing their model |
| 23:21 |
undata |
it was pretty damn elegant; I still try to code that way |
| 23:23 |
asciilifeform |
undata: what means 'visual' ? not being pedantic, seriously puzzled |
| 23:23 |
asciilifeform |
strange and ubiquitous marketing word. |
| 23:23 |
asciilifeform |
vt100 was 'visual' just as much as 'visual basic' |
| 23:23 |
undata |
we bound widgets to various chunks of AST |
| 23:23 |
asciilifeform |
widgets? |
| 23:23 |
undata |
UI components which were meant to say represent a join, or a boolean expression, or what have you |
| 23:24 |
asciilifeform |
but what kind of 'ui components' |
| 23:24 |
asciilifeform |
what did this look like ? |
| 23:24 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5719 @ 0.00047979 = 2.7439 BTC [-] |
| 23:26 |
cazalla |
scoopbot, go fetch |
| 23:27 |
PeterL |
hmm, maybe I could add that? |
| 23:27 |
cazalla |
PeterL, not a bad idea eh |
| 23:30 |
scoopbot |
New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/bitpay-forget-to-renew-bitcore-io-domain-name/ |
| 23:32 |
undata |
asciilifeform: I don't have any screenshots, but things like two boxes representing tables, each having things you can tap to select columns |
| 23:33 |
undata |
drawing a line between two columns of two tables and using a venn diagram in the middle to define the join type |
| 23:33 |
asciilifeform |
ugh |
| 23:33 |
undata |
and it was 2-way synced with the source code |
| 23:36 |
undata |
it wasn't bad as far as jobs go, but in the end we invented a shitty version of emacs in the browser in JS |
| 23:37 |
assbot |
Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2ZHJR82.txt ) |
| 23:37 |
asciilifeform |
!b 1 |
| 23:37 |
mats |
https://cryptoservices.github.io/fde/2014/12/08/code-execution-in-spite-of-bitlocker.html |
| 23:37 |
assbot |
Code Execution In Spite Of BitLocker ... ( http://bit.ly/1z15sDC ) |
| 23:37 |
asciilifeform |
'it wasn't bad as far as jobs go, but eventually the goats got too tight' |
| 23:38 |
* |
asciilifeform had 'bitlocker' symlinked with 'cryptolocker' (trojan) in his head, and read this article with a very peculiar feeling |
| 23:39 |
assbot |
Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/19559A0.txt ) |
| 23:39 |
BingoBoingo |
!b 1 |
| 23:39 |
joecool |
lol |
| 23:40 |
undata |
this idea that you can get dumb people to do smart things if only you find a way to put smart behind a single button mouse is a terrible religion |
| 23:41 |
undata |
that's probably what Eve is going to end up being as well, though I wouldn't mind being proved wrong |
| 23:41 |
undata |
I've seen "derps" do pretty effective things with spreadsheets |
| 23:42 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.wired.com/2014/12/obama-becomes-first-president-write-computer-program << mein fuhrer 'programs' ! |
| 23:42 |
assbot |
Obama Becomes First President to Write a Computer Program | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1w7zHJ6 ) |
| 23:44 |
mats |
nothing like post-pregnancy scare celebration sex |
| 23:44 |
undata |
msft is running lots of ads telling everyone to learn to code |
| 23:45 |
undata |
we can just have an economy of buying and selling apps with each other |
| 23:46 |
asciilifeform |
why not skip straight to buying, selling: farts. |
| 23:47 |
PeterL |
now you should be able to say: scoopbot -fetch and he will get the scoop |
| |
↖ |
| 23:47 |
undata |
artisan farts in mason jars |
| 23:47 |
undata |
there's probably a boutique for that here |
| 23:48 |
BingoBoingo |
Awesome PeterL |
| 23:48 |
PeterL |
you can also just pm him "-fetch" |
| 23:49 |
BingoBoingo |
asciilifeform: The entire MSFT business model since balmer has been having the most farts that smell on their platform |
| 23:56 |
BingoBoingo |
!up lolhash |