Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-09-02 | 2019-09-04 → ↓
04:25 spyked http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933248 <-- technically speaking ircbot can act the part of an irc client, just not sure how easy it is to write a ui (whether text or graphical) on top of that
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04:25 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-02 20:09:12 mircea_popescu: nfi that anyone's getting into fixing extant clients, and no intention to make anyone write a new irc client, so...
04:30 spyked http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933263 <-- imo this oughta happen when irc bot returns from recv, a la http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930111 ; cl-irc oughta expose some event for when connection is abruptly ended, so that ircbot reconnects from there
04:30 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-02 20:21:45 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933151 << how do I know when to reconnect if I do this?
04:30 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-22 12:35:01 asciilifeform: spyked: mine disconnects strictly when a send() or recv() actually return eggog (i.e. indicating dead tcp pipe)
04:31 spyked in any case, for some reason the current reconnect call from ircbot "ping-thread" never worked for me, it only disconnects, but never comes back to life.
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04:32 spyked (possibly because the call is not done on the main thread? I didn't look into it further than that, tbh)
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
05:38 mircea_popescu meanwhile in http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131245 news, the list of random innocents dragged in by nomination extends to also trinque diana_coman leaving aside the explicitly unnamed.
05:53 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933268 << this is quite likely. but, you know, ideally after some more specwork.
05:53 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-02 20:40:01 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933248 << atm i suspect the chore of 'new clients' won't be escapable, in light of gossipd
05:53 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933270 << right.
05:53 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-02 20:40:29 trinque: yes, but then, eh?
05:54 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933272 << tru!
05:54 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-02 20:41:13 asciilifeform: imho it's not a waste of time to at least think about how sane chat client oughta behave, tho.
05:55 spyked mircea_popescu, woah, huge response. it's gonna take me a while to process, currently stuck in saecular swamps. but I promise to get to it the first thing once I free my attention
05:55 mircea_popescu no rush.
06:06 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933331 << o holy shit, you got those ?
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06:06 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-02 23:26:40 trinque: well, there's one kidney stone down, plenty more to go.
06:09 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933332 << why should text mode be troublematic ? i would not even mind an irc client that works ~like screen, have a main window for each channel and then ctrl-a number to toggle etc.
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06:09 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 04:25:12 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933248 <-- technically speaking ircbot can act the part of an irc client, just not sure how easy it is to write a ui (whether text or graphical) on top of that
06:09 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-02 20:09:12 mircea_popescu: nfi that anyone's getting into fixing extant clients, and no intention to make anyone write a new irc client, so...
06:10 mircea_popescu imo if tryina weld irc client atop ircbot, one should simply gut and re-use screen util.
06:10 mircea_popescu (inb4 "but mp, obvious solution is emacs")
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06:25 spyked hm. would require doing tty stuff a la termios, and I expect (haven't looked, tho) the existing cl code for that is cffing to ncurses, which... ugh.
06:25 spyked then again, there's http://verisimilitudes.net/2018-04-04 , iirc the verisimilitudes fella was hanging out in #asciilifeform at some point
~ 44 minutes ~
07:10 mircea_popescu i wasn't necessarily implying cl ; screen is iirc c
~ 44 minutes ~
07:54 mircea_popescu meanwhile in anthropologically interesting documentary phootage, superaccurate depiction of pre-porn eeuropean teenager sexual activity.
07:55 mircea_popescu this kinda paralysed pululation's exactly what they did, in the days of yore.
07:55 snsabot Logged on 2018-11-12 11:44:19 asciilifeform: even on asciilifeform's home planet, good chunk of marriages were 'soft-arranged' -- i.e. 'comrade colonel, you have a bachelor son, i have a ripe daughter' 'comrade lt colonel, let's box'em in a room, wainot'
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~
09:05 PeterL http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1933103 << I don't want to overcomplicate things, but what about having two bots, one who listens and puts things in the DB and another who talks?
09:05 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-01 17:42:25 asciilifeform: bots presently are stuck 'manually' writing down own outputs .
~ 44 minutes ~
09:50 trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933348 << nah, just talking about the blockages in my skull. going to keep putting out these weirdo pieces for a bit.
09:50 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 06:06:43 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933331 << o holy shit, you got those ?
09:51 * trinque bares his teeth as he realizes he needs to introduce his devices better!
09:51 trinque until later #t
09:51 asciilifeform PeterL: prolly worst possible use for 'two bots'. the anti-oscillation logic will be longer than my bot itself in entirety
09:54 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933350 << 'irssi' worked very similarly
09:54 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 06:09:49 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933332 << why should text mode be troublematic ? i would not even mind an irc client that works ~like screen, have a main window for each channel and then ctrl-a number to toggle etc.
09:56 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933354 << am i the only habitual emacs user who never wanted to do anyffin other than ~editing text~ in it ?
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09:56 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 06:10:51 mircea_popescu: (inb4 "but mp, obvious solution is emacs")
09:56 asciilifeform i dun irc in it, or read www, or compose music, or...
09:57 PeterL I'm not sure I understand what you mean "anti-oscillation logic" and why you would need it?
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09:57 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933339 - I read it but I'm still thinking of it.
09:57 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-03 05:54:11 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131245 news, the list of random innocents dragged in by nomination extends to also trinque diana_coman leaving aside the explicitly unnamed.
09:58 diana_coman PeterL: what are you doing those days?
09:59 PeterL I was pretty lazy over the summer, camping with the fam, etc. I have not done much constructive lately.
09:59 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933373 << situation where N bots sequentially trigger one another, in a circle, is prohibited
09:59 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 09:57:41 PeterL: I'm not sure I understand what you mean "anti-oscillation logic" and why you would need it?
09:59 asciilifeform incl. N=1 case.
10:00 diana_coman PeterL: well, you'd be better off doing and learning rather than popping up every now and again with suggestions only so that then people also have to explain stuff to you for no clear result otherwise.
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10:00 PeterL I don't mean two full bots, I mean split the function of your bot into two, so you sould have, e.g. snsabot-listener who never talks, just puts lines in the DB, and when somebody quotes something then snsabot-talker reads it out
10:01 asciilifeform PeterL: what does this win?
10:01 diana_coman asciilifeform: I'd tell him to implement it, run it and document the results; he'll figure out what you are saying much faster that way + he'll learn something from it at least.
10:01 PeterL that way you know the things you said actually went out over the line
10:03 asciilifeform PeterL: ben_vulpes & trinque's orig bot actually worked this way. from the added complexity of multithread, had other problems entirely.
10:03 asciilifeform i agree w/ diana_coman tho -- try it yerself
10:07 asciilifeform PeterL: if you do, will learn, that moving parts have a cost -- even if they're invisible, mass-less, and supposedly 'phree'
10:16 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933337 << spyked et al: i am finding this thread a puzzler. here's why :
10:16 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 04:31:17 spyked: in any case, for some reason the current reconnect call from ircbot "ping-thread" never worked for me, it only disconnects, but never comes back to life.
10:16 asciilifeform !q uptime
10:16 snsabot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 17d 23h 52m
10:17 asciilifeform ^ not only worx, but i posted not only proggy, but full explanation of algo, here. and yet folx ~still~ bashing heads over 'pinger threads' and other ???! epicycles?!
10:17 asciilifeform why??
10:19 asciilifeform why not puzzle over an actual open problem ?
10:19 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-01 18:22:51 asciilifeform: diana_coman: appears to work. we're gonna want an algo , tho, that doesn't resolve to 'throw out my db if outta sync and eat the other's' imho .
~ 2 hours 8 minutes ~
12:27 * asciilifeform meanwhile enjoyed trinque's piece + thread .
~ 25 minutes ~
12:52 diana_coman aww, feedbot can't seem to keep up with the pace of trilema comments, lol
12:55 * asciilifeform waves to diana_coman 
12:56 diana_coman fwiw I don't think that's MP's point at all.
12:57 diana_coman i.e. not http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131256
12:58 asciilifeform diana_coman: i suspect he has >1 point, but that this indeed was 1 of'em. but i expect he'll clarify, i'ma refrain from guessing.
12:59 asciilifeform meanwhile : BingoBoingo : the crate with the 1u chassis's is here.
13:01 BingoBoingo Nice
13:03 asciilifeform btw diana_coman actually #20 contains mistake, in temp mirrors 1st set up 'nginx' as in older system, then 'apache' to compare whether made diff in re performance (it did not) . ( putting this here, rather than to spam mp's www with 9000 errata comments.. )
13:06 asciilifeform re 'postgres' vs 'mysql' -- afaik they're entirely compatible, such as they are used in my item, with the exceptions of: 1) table indices 2) dump format.
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13:06 mircea_popescu holy shit i can't keep up here.
13:06 mircea_popescu by the time i pen a comment another 5 are in there, and then the log scrolls and omgwtfbbq
13:06 * mircea_popescu is firmly committed to getting to it all though
13:07 asciilifeform i'ma stfu and give mircea_popescu the needed air atm
13:07 * asciilifeform will try an' work through mircea_popescu's sicilian proverbs
13:15 diana_coman asciilifeform: it's a song afaik lolz.
13:16 asciilifeform diana_coman: i see it nao, but i eat slowly, lol
~ 27 minutes ~
13:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, it's luna mezzu mare, the saltarelle they play for weddings
13:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i recall you had another similar , sumthing like 'da-mi mama dupa Iura'
13:45 mircea_popescu that'd be ro
13:45 asciilifeform strangely sicilian seems almost plug-compatible with ro (sorta like those old sovok rocket connectors, 'only gotta hammer it once and the pins will bend...' )
13:45 mircea_popescu it is!
13:45 asciilifeform more so than e.g fr/sp
13:46 mircea_popescu yup
13:46 asciilifeform or even swede vs norsk
13:46 mircea_popescu that i dunno
13:47 asciilifeform in related funnies, icelandic is hammer-compatible w/ chaucer's engl.
13:47 asciilifeform ( picture english, but supposing it hadn't lost its declensions )
13:48 * asciilifeform once worked through a collection of icelandic tales, by third ch was approx as edible as current engl
13:51 mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ti4kZ/?raw=true << feedbot scrollback, keks
13:51 mircea_popescu NOTICE HOW ONE IS OUT OF TIME, TOO!
13:52 asciilifeform sumbody send him a rubidium clock!1111
13:53 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933370 << i was being sarcastic!
13:53 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 09:56:12 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933354 << am i the only habitual emacs user who never wanted to do anyffin other than ~editing text~ in it ?
13:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: laff, but iirc there's folx who live 100% in emacs. ( trinque iirc )
13:53 mircea_popescu i knew some back in the day also.
13:54 * asciilifeform deliberately does not, sticks strictly to ~writing~ in it, that way also less distracted when doing so
13:54 mircea_popescu eg, guy maintaining the server where i was pico-ing my email in the 90s, kept wanting to get me to emacs.
13:54 mircea_popescu uhm. s/pico/pine/
13:55 asciilifeform pico may as well ~= pine imho
13:55 asciilifeform same authors, iirc, ~same knobs.
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13:55 mircea_popescu yes but historical accuracy
13:56 * asciilifeform for many, many yrs -- used pine ! and when moved from last flat in fact threw out a crt with pine screen burned into the phosphor.
13:56 mircea_popescu heh
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13:56 diana_coman ha, pine ~= highschool email!
13:56 mircea_popescu ikr ?
13:56 diana_coman yeeee
13:57 asciilifeform diana_coman: i used it all the way to the last day when the university shut down their unix cluster and expelled all 'zombies' who were still connected. which -- ~decade after graduating -- still included asciilifeform
13:58 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933381 << this is precisely the case ; do me a favour and move out of here to whatever lords' castle that'll have you on your own power so i don't have to strap on my tool belt and do it in a more permanent fashio,
13:58 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 10:00:29 diana_coman: PeterL: well, you'd be better off doing and learning rather than popping up every now and again with suggestions only so that then people also have to explain stuff to you for no clear result otherwise.
13:59 asciilifeform re ^ PeterL i recommend #a .
14:00 asciilifeform ( a surprisingly well-populated штрафбат . and asciilifeform makes an effort to read its log and reply 2-3x / daily )
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~ 45 minutes ~
14:45 mircea_popescu incidentally re http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131257 diana_coman , where's the article detailing the time we attempted to amber linux over it breaking eulora compile process ? is there one even ?
14:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc was only in the #t log
14:47 mircea_popescu that's a pity
14:48 asciilifeform was iirc a pre-cuntoo attempt to cuntoo. but unfortunately not publicly given in detail .
14:49 BingoBoingo This one? http://trilema.com/2016/ideological-history-of-the-republic/
14:50 * asciilifeform also 'pre-cuntoo cuntoo', and pc ver. of same ; with the assoc. headaches elaborately described in the log.
14:50 snsabot Logged on 2019-05-02 09:56:16 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910633 << there's actually not 1 but 2 'standard os' available in piz ( 'rk' and 'dulap' tarballs ) but both are stone age gentoos, they are obsoleted by cuntoo (when the latter is pronounced baked, but really even nao, it is impossible to e.g. 'emerge' packages on the vintage gentoo, the upstream package repos went full tard year ago )
14:50 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i think that was it !
~ 21 minutes ~
15:12 mircea_popescu a damn, that's why i wasn't finding it on her blog -- cuz it was on mine
15:12 mircea_popescu tyvm BingoBoingo
15:14 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933406 << this can't fucking be, they all must dump sql ffs, wtf.
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15:14 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 13:06:19 asciilifeform: re 'postgres' vs 'mysql' -- afaik they're entirely compatible, such as they are used in my item, with the exceptions of: 1) table indices 2) dump format.
15:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in fact (and apropos of your 'but it Will!! break if planets unalign' comment, incidentally) it shits forth not only iso sql , but proprietary oddities
15:15 mircea_popescu argh
15:16 asciilifeform i have not fully vivisected'em , cannot presently say whether 'eh just filter'em out' would work .
15:16 mircea_popescu it's just...
15:18 asciilifeform aat least it doesn't try to stuff the indices into the dump.
15:18 asciilifeform ( which would make it GB+ and consisting largely of machine barf. i almost expected to discover that it ~does~ when wrote )
15:24 BingoBoingo The SQL in mysql and the sql in postgresql are different enough to not have portability without headbashing.
15:25 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: fwiw i used only standard sql in my proggies -- with the exception of indices (where there is no standard mechanism, grrrr)
15:27 BingoBoingo This is all fine and good, but Mysql has some thing outside the standard and those things appear to be what makes it the M in LAMP. Postgre may have usecases, but if you want to blog bloggin happens into mysql
15:28 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: well imho (and in disagreement with mircea_popescu) blogging includes search box. which is why my wp runs on pg.
15:31 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Does it include search box for you or for all comers?
15:32 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: as you can see on my www -- allcomers. just like in e.g. phuctor.
15:32 asciilifeform it's cheap.
15:33 asciilifeform cuz properly indexed.
15:34 BingoBoingo Is it actually cheap or is it cheap because NFS is weird
15:34 asciilifeform search boxes ~save~ cpu cycles, folx who insist on searching otherwise wget -m ... . whereas why not let'em search .
15:34 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: phuctor lives on actual box, same as the logotron.
15:34 BingoBoingo I mean the blog
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15:34 asciilifeform blog still lives on starvation heathen host, for nao.
15:34 * asciilifeform still investigating to-where move
15:35 asciilifeform point being, a search box query costs approx same as ordinary page load.
15:35 asciilifeform it doesn't walk anywhere near entire data set.
15:39 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo, afaik mp-wp takes postgres out of the box
15:39 mircea_popescu then again, this was last tested (and true) ~decade ago
15:45 BingoBoingo Anyways, there is no place for nginx in the world
15:45 mircea_popescu was it you that had a near death experience with the thing ?
15:45 mircea_popescu i recall someone did
15:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo and asciilifeform together, when attempted the collective php blog system on same
15:46 asciilifeform ( found out that there is no working equiv. of 'mod-php' for ngx )
15:46 mircea_popescu ah yes
15:47 BingoBoingo Nor any easy equivalent to .htaccess
15:47 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: meanwhile the GB switch crate is here !
15:47 BingoBoingo because nginx paradigm is BACKWARDS
15:47 mircea_popescu keks
15:47 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Very good news!
15:50 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: nginx was an old heathen attempt to 'trb treatment' of apache by 'cut all the pieces i dun use' -- of 1 particular user.
15:50 BingoBoingo "You can’t do this. You shouldn’t. If you need .htaccess, you’re probably doing it wrong." << Fuck you
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15:50 mircea_popescu iirc this is so
15:51 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: And then he proceeded to routinely make wild obfuscated C changes to ngix citing "optimization"
15:51 BingoBoingo And "performance"
15:52 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: fwiw i've never succeeded in detecting a performance diff b/w the 2 (in the use scenario where they can be interchanged)
15:52 asciilifeform so i suspect the 'optimizations'(tm)(r) more than made up for whatever was gained in the orig. cut.
15:53 asciilifeform re 'htaccess' tho, imho the cut was correct, 'deny errything but what is explicitly permitted in the config' is the Right Thing, rather than 'make user specify per-dir'
15:54 BingoBoingo But that is not at all where .htaccess utility comes from.
15:54 BingoBoingo THe .htaccess utility is in much of the most important config needs being directory or file specific
15:55 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'm aware that it is also used as a kludge to 'naggum's bulldozer' over broken www proggies .
15:55 snsabot Logged on 2017-10-09 11:45:35 asciilifeform: re 'why would anyone think to use threads' -- this is not mega-puzzle. naggum described similar situation in the bulldozer essay. imbecile sees an obstacle, reaches for the most obvious available power tool that seems to push aside the obstacle; without giving half a shit what's behind it, woods, swamp, mountain, or where the earth he pushed aside will go, and how it might interact with him later, etc
15:55 mircea_popescu he has a point there.
15:55 mircea_popescu "unix" files and linux files are entirely different ; the whole linux fs is really www tronics.
15:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actually linux's fs is quite poor match for www case (think -- or else 'htaccess' kludge would not seem necessary)
15:56 BingoBoingo I mean the other alternative is lighttpd's "config lives until process restarts"
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15:56 mircea_popescu im not saying it's good fit ; i'm saying it was built around it.
15:56 asciilifeform linux file permission model is a joak even in comparison to microshit's, fwiw
15:57 asciilifeform ( who hasn't blown entire weekend on 'grr should this /tmp/barf be chown apache:apache or apache:foo or...' ? )
15:57 mircea_popescu me lol
15:57 * BingoBoingo used to blow hours, now usually only blows minutes when they happen
16:02 BingoBoingo Still, gotta go to war with the arms available as nice as it may be to got to war instead with the arms in the development lab
16:02 BingoBoingo 's funding request narrative
16:05 asciilifeform oblig re subj, for aficionados.
16:19 diana_coman http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933449 - there isn't one; it's only irc logs, sadly.
16:19 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-03 15:00:52 mircea_popescu: incidentally re http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131257 diana_coman , where's the article detailing the time we attempted to amber linux over it breaking eulora compile process ? is there one even ?
16:22 diana_coman ah, hm, there is yours; I just knew *I* didn't write one on the topic.
~ 17 minutes ~
16:39 mircea_popescu aha
16:42 diana_coman in other unrelated stuff: I keep getting emails from Romanians that use those bac data sets but a. it's only and exclusively when they *need* something more/else and b. they somehow never seem to notice that they could also offer what other data sets they have to add there; GRRR
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16:42 diana_coman and they are all "economists"
16:44 diana_coman mircea_popescu: re the repo von minigame approach I searched a bit more and the starting point I think is possibly http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2016-09-30#922530 but sadly the concrete madness seems to have never made it fully into public view
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16:44 ossabot Logged on 2016-09-30 10:25:26 diana_coman: it sounds like we should mirror them ; probably/possibly a bunch of packages for each distro at the end of the day, sigh
16:45 BingoBoingo lol, when the locals ask me for my opinion of their "pagina de web" my first recommendation is the that to get more recommendations they need to cut their page load time down from minutes to seconds.
16:45 mircea_popescu diana_coman, nice how that works, huh.
16:46 diana_coman I suppose in time there'll be plenty more similar stuff that I should have written about but what can I do *now* about it - there's still plenty waiting in the queue to be done, yet more to be written and both queues seem to get only longer, a bit balaur-style, cut one head and 2 pop out
16:47 mircea_popescu diana_coman, anyway, i suppose the thing to do is point out to the dorks in question that really there's no need nor any space for their self aferations, drop the shit and go younghands instead.
16:48 mircea_popescu "you'll be an economist when i tell you you're an economist, now go do the dishes"
16:49 diana_coman mircea_popescu: that's an idea though in fairness I can't say I'd *want* them; so far I just kept pointing out precisely that a. learn to write also when you use something, not only when you need something b. send me those other data sets and then who knows
~ 25 minutes ~
17:14 asciilifeform btw in re http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131271 -- i have no objection if someone would like to put the proposition to a -- announced or otherwise -- torture test
~ 2 hours 1 minutes ~
19:15 feedbot http://qntra.net/2019/09/another-open-bmc-bung-virtual-usb-open-to-anywhere/ << Qntra -- Another Open BMC Bung: Virtual USB Open To Anywhere
~ 41 minutes ~
19:57 mircea_popescu bung ? lol
19:57 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2019/09/another-open-bmc-bung-virtual-usb-open-to-anywhere/#comment-137293
19:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'the age commanded that we sing, but then cut off our tongues... the age commanded that we flow, but hammered in the bung!'(tm)(r)
19:58 mircea_popescu hahaha
19:58 mircea_popescu it makes sense though, it was bungled in the bunghole
19:58 * asciilifeform fughets where this were, was iirc some sad brit
20:01 asciilifeform found! not, turns out , brit. was mr.2barrels.
20:07 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933524 << i still get mails re various old how-to's . ~never anyffin moar interesting than 'it didn't work for me! hulp!' tho
20:07 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 16:42:07 diana_coman: in other unrelated stuff: I keep getting emails from Romanians that use those bac data sets but a. it's only and exclusively when they *need* something more/else and b. they somehow never seem to notice that they could also offer what other data sets they have to add there; GRRR
20:08 asciilifeform ( spoiler: ~100% of the time , complainer's hands were found to grow from arse )
20:10 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933526 << thinking about this -- prolly my sad mips belongs on the list of these attempts.
20:10 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 16:44:37 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: re the repo von minigame approach I searched a bit more and the starting point I think is possibly http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2016-09-30#922530 but sadly the concrete madness seems to have never made it fully into public view
20:10 ossabot Logged on 2016-09-30 10:25:26 diana_coman: it sounds like we should mirror them ; probably/possibly a bunch of packages for each distro at the end of the day, sigh
20:11 asciilifeform ^ hm mircea_popescu , do you think bots oughta ignore outputs of bots ? ( i deliberately did not, as specifically requested in mircea_popescu's spec ; but it would be a trivial change )
20:12 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> bung ? lol << You know, like a barrel of fun
20:12 asciilifeform currently asciilifeform's logotron kit takes list of other-bots in config file. these are used atm strictly in www displayer's colouration ( grey, a la phf's )
20:13 mircea_popescu fun over the barrel, moar like it
20:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, it's a recurring topic, but no, let them read each other.
20:14 mircea_popescu this way people can unravel chains if they want to, or not. in any case, if we decide we hate it eventually easy enough to tunr off
20:14 asciilifeform aite then.
20:16 asciilifeform let's test the corner case btw:
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20:16 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933556 http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933556
20:16 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 20:16:18 asciilifeform: let's test the corner case btw:
20:16 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-03 20:31:50 asciilifeform: let's test the corner case btw:
20:16 asciilifeform http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933557
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20:16 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-03 20:32:14 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933556 http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933556
20:16 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 20:16:18 asciilifeform: let's test the corner case btw:
20:16 asciilifeform pass!
20:17 mircea_popescu worked befoar yea
20:17 asciilifeform ^ exercise for reader : why this works ?
20:18 asciilifeform ( in re:. )
20:18 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-03 10:14:41 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933373 << situation where N bots sequentially trigger one another, in a circle, is prohibited
20:18 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 09:57:41 PeterL: I'm not sure I understand what you mean "anti-oscillation logic" and why you would need it?
20:19 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933560
20:19 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 20:16:49 asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933557
20:19 ossabot Logged on 2019-09-03 20:32:14 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933556 http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933556
20:19 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 20:16:18 asciilifeform: let's test the corner case btw:
20:19 mircea_popescu keks.
20:20 asciilifeform this is proper tho. ( not oscillator. )
20:21 mircea_popescu also i believe longest chain on record.
20:23 asciilifeform can make any finite-length chain you like.
20:24 asciilifeform ( observe that neither bot was 'thrown for flood' )
20:27 mircea_popescu ;peetty cool
20:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu's depressing thread makes me want to rewrite the bot nao tho. ( taking suggestions re in-what... )
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20:29 mircea_popescu aww
20:29 mircea_popescu take it easy, this isn't supposed to be enjoyable.
20:29 asciilifeform lol heh
20:30 asciilifeform in all seriousness, the tower o'shit for bot.py is only slightly shorter than for reader.py ( yea no 'flask' -- but dozen other similars )
20:30 mircea_popescu myeah
20:33 asciilifeform btw i dun recall if mentioned this, but it is possible to bake the bot in sumthing that doesn't know about pg, but only knows how to socket. ( i.e. if one were to move the 'insert new line' into reader , and have the latter take a http 'put' on 127.0.0.1 for same )
20:34 asciilifeform i actually did very similar thing in phuctor ( the 'werker', c proggy that uses multiple cpu ) as of '16 does not need to know about pg, it talks to the frontend via ordinary http
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20:35 asciilifeform previously had c<->pg glue in it .
20:36 asciilifeform in principle could then have a mircea_popescu-style php reader, and e.g ada bot .
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20:38 asciilifeform ( observe that search knob already worx by passing command to reader )
20:47 asciilifeform ( why asciilifeform did not do this in the original ? answr -- because wanted to make the bot independent of reader, so could restart the latter , for cosmetic fiddles, w/out risking to lose lines )
20:48 asciilifeform reader, to date, restarted 100+ times , and no one noticed. ( bot -- iirc 3 . )
~ 20 minutes ~
21:09 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2019-09-03#1933440 << as for me, it's just cheaper than zeroing my work and starting over.
21:10 trinque ftr, test bot has been connected continuously in #trinque since the other day, looks nipped
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21:10 trinque (connected from same box as deedbot too)
21:10 trinque if we get to a week's uptime I'll update deedbot
21:11 * trinque sits down to eat rest of log
~ 23 minutes ~
21:34 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2019-09-03#1933478 << recently I torched my whole wad of elisp, got fed up with setting the dials on someone else's machine "just so" and calling the "just so" mine.
↖ ↖
21:34 trinque thing's brittle
21:36 trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933459 << oh yeah, plenty of divergences in the dump formats, "standards process" and everything.
21:36 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 15:14:35 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933406 << this can't fucking be, they all must dump sql ffs, wtf.
21:39 trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933497 << actually I fail to see the merit of sprinkling configuration throughout the filesystem, such that you can't interrogate the whole state of the webserver in a single place.
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21:39 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 15:50:45 BingoBoingo: "You can’t do this. You shouldn’t. If you need .htaccess, you’re probably doing it wrong." << Fuck you
21:39 trinque "but it lets tenants configure" runs aground on "there exists no multitenant OS"
21:41 trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933511 << lighttpd and nginx both support life config reloading, not so.
21:41 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 15:56:18 BingoBoingo: I mean the other alternative is lighttpd's "config lives until process restarts"
21:42 trinque not that I have a favorite in either.
21:44 trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933579 << god please no; I want to see gossipd before I'm dead.
21:44 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-03 20:28:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's depressing thread makes me want to rewrite the bot nao tho. ( taking suggestions re in-what... )
21:46 trinque asciilifeform: anyway I decoupled the protocol from the backend services on mine, but used deeb for the decoupling. intent was to be resilient to new tmsr~ chat protocols emerging
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