Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-10-14 | 2018-10-16 → ↓
00:00 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862394 << that's the discussion as to how "of course everything eventually merges into single tree".
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00:00 a111 Logged on 2018-10-14 16:16 asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc mircea_popescu in particular specifically hates libs-as-separate-trees, insists that proggy oughta include errything it eats. ( i dun recall whether he answered why it should not also then include the os and compiler also in same genesis, but i'ma leave thread alone for nao)
00:00 mircea_popescu kinda the fucking point, building yggdrasil over here.
00:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862397 << because cut-and-paste was never contemplated as a possible alternative, it was read-and-rewrite. because moving from one tree to another is exactly translation, one must bear in mind context and only implement ~the algo~. consider how we got crc32 -- we did NOT cut-and-paste from anywhere. diana RE WROTE IT!
00:03 a111 Logged on 2018-10-14 16:18 asciilifeform: imho 'unifiers' (i.e. patch that pulls in specific state from a parallel tree) is a cleaner way of accomplishing this than cut&paste, but i was unable to persuade.
00:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862400 << #1 thing you do, is you TALK TO PEOPLE! there is no jwz way out of politics. if regrind hurts you, tell them not to fucking do it ; and if they won't listen tell whoever will listen to not follow the new thing. and so fucking on.
00:04 a111 Logged on 2018-10-14 16:21 diana_coman: asciilifeform, trouble is - what do you do then when/if that tree gets reground?
00:04 asciilifeform iirc crc lifted directly from old gnat
00:04 mircea_popescu v-tree lives through wot and through wot alone, it's not some kind of self contained magic.
00:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not afaik.
00:05 asciilifeform diana_coman's, i mean
00:05 asciilifeform ave1's is new
00:06 mircea_popescu to quote, \"As usual, the forum quickly pointed me in the right direction - thank you ave1! - namely looking under the hood of course, in this case GNAT's own hood, the Systems.CRC32 package. Still, this package makes a whole dance of eating one single character at a time since it is written precisely to support the stream monstrosity on top rather than to support the user with what they might indeed need. Happily though, CRC
00:06 mircea_popescu 32 is a very simple thing and absolutely easy to lift and package into 52 lines of code in the .adb file + 130 in the .ads file so 182 all in total1, comments and two types of input (string or raw array of octets) included."
00:06 mircea_popescu this is 100% "read and rewrite" and entirely and absolutely NOT copy/paste.
00:07 asciilifeform i do believe that diana_coman read.
00:07 asciilifeform ( orig item http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858544 )
00:07 a111 Logged on 2018-10-05 16:21 asciilifeform: diana_coman: https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/s-crc32__adb.htm << pretty simple, you can even lift and civilize
00:07 mircea_popescu this is what's contemplated here.
00:07 asciilifeform possibly puzzled re what counts as 'rewrite' tho
00:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the act of outputting a text.
00:08 asciilifeform ( when i rewrite , i actually start with empty buffer, but that could be just me )
00:10 mircea_popescu i imagine it's just you. http://trilema.com/2012/runcible-doom/ << example rewrite. i did not start with empty buffer, nor does it matter any if you do.
00:10 mircea_popescu nor does such a thing as "empty buffer" truly exist, nor is it any kind of substantial distinction, and so on.
00:11 mircea_popescu imo this "empty buffer" notion is leftover implanted brain electrode from ustard academia/schooling. "oh, gotta be original". no such fucking thing ; and the only reason they talk about it is to keep intelligent people from doing important work.
00:12 mircea_popescu the rest of the discussion is in http://trilema.com/2015/mps-very-brief-foray-into-a-poetry-forum/
00:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no 'originality' contemplated, referring to simple act of using empty page. y'know, like in '80s when keying in gamez from mk61 b00k
00:13 mircea_popescu even if what you end up writing down is 100% exactly identical to the original, nevertheless IT IS STILL A REWRITE, especially if the original is heathen -- as per "idiots may not have ideas" doctrine. http://trilema.com/2014/pro-idiotas-which-obviously-means-people-who-have-ideas-ie-idiots/#selection-145.129-145.542 and all that.
00:13 mircea_popescu whereas in cases like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860859 it is strictly evident both items were written, notwithstanding both identical.
00:13 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
00:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the end we could phrase it as "some rewriters -- deeper than others".
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00:14 mircea_popescu rewrites*
00:15 asciilifeform right. and the actual extent of rewritism is not necessarily visible to thirdparty, it is b/w the rewriter and odin, really
00:15 asciilifeform often enuff will end up with ~same txt
00:17 mircea_popescu in fact, a very solid basis for respect is, "whenever i sit down to rewrite x, i end up writing what he wrote ; whereas whenever i sit down to rewrite y, i end up using empty page. thus therefore x is rated 5 and y -10"
00:17 mircea_popescu wtf is signing a vpatch than "i sat down to rewrite $author's work and came to his exact text, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860859 style. therefore i undersign."
00:17 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
00:18 mircea_popescu in any case historically this ~exact process~ is how eg djb ended up with the modicum of respect he then proceeded to squander.
00:19 mircea_popescu or whatever-other-name.
00:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862408 << the benefit is that if they are legitimate multi, then there's different context which is well handled ; and if they are illegitimate (in the sense of, no context to well handle) there's pressure there to collapse.
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00:20 a111 Logged on 2018-10-14 16:25 diana_coman: and then you are stuck maintaining those multiple trees - what's the benefit in that?
00:20 mircea_popescu which is the fucking problem with current versioning systems, they encourage illegitimate context creation, of the sort of "i need to publish or perish therefore let us rename biology and rediscover it".
00:21 mircea_popescu eg, branching the eucrypt tree over embeds/mainstream is (possibly ?) sustainable ; whereas branching it over "joe needs a project to direct to justify his employment with shithat" is exactly as sustainable as post-2018 linux.
00:22 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862411 << but if you don't care about computers why are you talking to them ? you're not ~dependent~ on it, but i presume you care to some degree.
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00:22 a111 Logged on 2018-10-14 16:25 diana_coman: once you bring it into your tree, you don't care about the original tree so ...how stuck?
~ 2 hours 21 minutes ~
02:44 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862726 -> right, dependent is the right word there
02:44 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 04:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862411 << but if you don't care about computers why are you talking to them ? you're not ~dependent~ on it, but i presume you care to some degree.
02:49 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862722 -> hm, multi for the sake of it would anyway be taken care of via who signs and who doesn't sign the various patches or trees; but anyway - do you mean you think there should be explicit multi-tree dependencies? this is what I was talking about there: tree A effectively links to patch B.3 in tree B so if B's maintainer regrinds then A's maintainer has to go on a shouting spree (as per "talk to peop
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02:49 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 04:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862408 << the benefit is that if they are legitimate multi, then there's different context which is well handled ; and if they are illegitimate (in the sense of, no context to well handle) there's pressure there to collapse.
02:49 diana_coman le")
02:50 diana_coman I read and re-read and I get the impression that this sort of delayed conversation doesn't work very well so I'll leave it for now
02:54 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862679 <-> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862390
02:54 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 03:57 mircea_popescu: in any case, type1 might get i dunno, later-patch-taking-advantage-of-ddram whereas type 2 might get later-patch-needed-for-old-arms etc.
02:54 a111 Logged on 2018-10-14 16:13 diana_coman: yes, the way I currently see it now is pretty much that: trunk (main line) goes along the production versions of all stuff (crc32 or keccak or whatever else) and otherwise at the respective points there can be additional branches /leaves with the reference implementations
02:55 diana_coman in the more general case it can branch for all sorts of reasons and continue on those branches for as long as needed, of course
02:56 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862681 -> taking out of the tree i.e. opposite of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862683
02:56 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 03:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862391 << i have no idea what you mean by this "taking out" expression.
02:56 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 04:00 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862394 << that's the discussion as to how "of course everything eventually merges into single tree".
~ 2 hours 28 minutes ~
05:25 mircea_popescu diana_coman absolutely not.
05:26 diana_coman I gather that's re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862730
05:26 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 06:49 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862722 -> hm, multi for the sake of it would anyway be taken care of via who signs and who doesn't sign the various patches or trees; but anyway - do you mean you think there should be explicit multi-tree dependencies? this is what I was talking about there: tree A effectively links to patch B.3 in tree B so if B's maintainer regrinds then A's maintainer has to go on a shouting spree (as per "talk to peop
05:26 mircea_popescu tree A is single if there exists a "most extensive press" that includes all possible presses are included ; tree A is multi if no such MEP exists.
05:27 diana_coman makes perfect sense, yes
05:27 mircea_popescu right.
05:28 mircea_popescu so then what's the q ? or ?
05:31 diana_coman there isn't any question that I see remaining there; I think what happened was that I was thinking a bit out loud in the logs yesterday and I got to same conclusion basically but then you started answering to the first part and some things were not unclear at a distance too and so the whole thing
05:32 mircea_popescu ah ah. okthen
05:33 ave1 asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862451, I've been reading through the logs and could find no reference of how you did this. Could this be monitored with an FPGA? (there seem to be MAC level FPGA based routers).
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05:33 a111 Logged on 2018-10-14 16:49 asciilifeform: ave1: there is not much to be said further re subj, i looked into what actually comes out of my lan, it sends 1500 frames upstream always.
05:33 diana_coman btw I think this is a very good description indeed: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862713
05:33 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 04:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the end we could phrase it as "some rewriters -- deeper than others".
05:34 mircea_popescu ave1 can't just sniff packets one node upstream ?
05:35 ave1 Alternatively I was thinking about some simple speed tests (i.e. half size udp messages would translate in < half bandwith of max size udp messages)
05:36 ave1 mircea_popescu, I'm doing packet sniffing (with wireshark and netsniff etc) and I see different ethernet frame sizes reported
05:36 mircea_popescu but are you dumping the raw frames ? or are they reconstructed the "indended" packet for you ?
05:37 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862454 << molodets!!!
05:37 a111 Logged on 2018-10-14 16:54 asciilifeform: on 1 occasion it was found necessary to build a icbm rocket that is too heavy for 1 car. head designer v. f. utkin found solution, he had a system of springs to distribute the weight between ~two~ cars. this is analogous to udp fraggism.
05:37 ave1 This I do not know (it looks raw). I'am probably doomed to read the linux network stack.
05:40 ave1 So far (by reading about this), I found that some NICs can do part of the framing for the OS (but I would expect that to be for large messages and not for small ones)
05:41 ave1 So if this part of framing happens at the hardware level then the connection to what is reported to the OS and actually on the line is weak
05:41 mircea_popescu "raw packet", "raw frame", rawdog, etcetera. tcpdump/libpcap-likes tend to dump the packets not the frames.
05:42 mircea_popescu listen on a raw socket. otherwise you're prolly getting what comes out of pf_packet, which is a packet.
05:44 ave1 netsniff-ng seems to show raw frames (eth mac is reported) but yes I'll look into the socket raw code
05:49 mircea_popescu apparently that does do raw 802.11 frames.
05:53 diana_coman ave1, the .ads in your .vpatch still has the original comments saying that it's a lookup-based implementation, lol
05:54 mircea_popescu this poor guy!
05:55 mircea_popescu y u copypaste, ave1 !
05:55 ave1 diana_coman, Ach yes, I did copy-paste everything I did not touch
05:55 diana_coman this code is meant for touching, heh
05:58 diana_coman ave1, please update so I can sign the patch
06:05 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862559 << heh.
06:05 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 00:54 asciilifeform: this line of thought was prompted by my 'trb observatory', which has uncovered a number of 'mpb'-style nodes, i.e. trb-like but not presenting 'modern' vers and therefore invisible from heathen www indices
06:05 mircea_popescu anyway, not a bad idea at all.
06:06 ave1 diana_coman, updated!
06:08 ave1 note I kept the S.MG 2018 lines untouched
06:10 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862587 << i suspek the problem's deeper here. ie, "already exists" concept may altogether be broken on linux/unix
06:10 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 01:13 phf: so it looks like bvt is correct, there's no way to make ada's Create throw an exception if the file already exists
06:11 diana_coman ave1, thanks, confirmed fine, I'll sign and mirror it on my shelf in a minute; (re s.mg lines - not a worry either way really)
06:12 diana_coman hm, opening file for append however raises an exception if file does not exist
06:12 diana_coman I used that at the udp tester to create file only if it does not exist
06:13 diana_coman but granted: workaround
06:14 diana_coman onth I'm not sure I want Create to throw exceptions - I want it to create the file and that's it, I don't care if it exists or not
06:15 mircea_popescu specifically what i mean : if a process creates/deletes file on a very narrow schedule ; and another checks for file's existence on very narrow schedule, their respective pictures of when they think file exists and doesn't fails to match up.
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06:16 mircea_popescu not clear to me if caching shenanigans or what. but anyways.
06:16 diana_coman ah ah
06:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862617 << speaking of which, hey lobbes, feel like adding a param to !Q later tell, whereby it can tell next it sees guy but not earlier than x hours ?
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06:20 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 02:44 asciilifeform: ty phf, will remind.
06:20 mircea_popescu ppl can give themselves alerts this way then
06:21 mircea_popescu could work like !Q later tell == !Q 0 tell ; otherwise !Q 144 tell
06:24 diana_coman an shelf page updated with ave1's divtronic crc32; thank you ave1!; phf please snarf updated .vpatch and sigs when convenient: http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-429.0-443.46
06:26 ave1 btw, gnat specific; System.OS_Lib has 'Create_New_File' (it also has a temp file generator, but I cannot recommend, uses digits). bvt's implemention looks the way to go (Although the string allocations to talk to C should be removed)
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06:28 ave1 and in that code, another way to send strings from Ada to C; http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GZtAH/?raw=true
~ 57 minutes ~
07:25 danielpbarron !!up slycordinator
07:25 deedbot slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
07:26 slycordinator Is anyone on here in contact with someone who runs loper-os.org? I got directed here from clicking the "contact" link there. On the site, people can't make comments on articles as the captcha software used is out of date
07:27 slycordinator The message on the captcha display says "reCAPTCHA V1 IS SHUTDOWN. Direct site owners to g.co/repaptcha/upgrade"
07:27 ave1 slycordinator, you're looking for asciilifeform, he may be available in a couple of hours.
07:30 slycordinator I thought it was him. I sent a PM earlier but wasn't sure if someone else was also involved.
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07:30 slycordinator Thanks
07:30 ave1 In the mean time you could introduce yourself. And figure out where you are here: http://btcbase.org/log.
07:32 ave1 Example of a successful introduction here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860372.
07:32 a111 Logged on 2018-10-10 21:09 bvt: Hello, I am BT from the recent diana_coman's comments section
07:37 slycordinator So, to introduce myself, I'm an American living in Korea teaching English and studying data science/machine learning in my free time
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~ 15 minutes ~
07:52 ave1 slycordinator, that's very interesting, most people here are in the American Continents and some of us are in Europe (I'm in the Netherlands).
07:53 ave1 If you like to have a more permanent identity here, please register with deedbot
07:53 ave1 !!help
07:53 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
07:53 ave1 If you do, I'll rate you and you can self voice.
07:54 ave1 you like -> you would like
07:55 slycordinator Sounds good. I'll come by on occasion; think my wife is annoyed with how much time I spend on the computer already though lol
07:59 ave1 !!up slycordinator
07:59 deedbot slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
08:01 ave1 You have a limited window in which to register yourself, deedbot gives you half an hour.
08:04 diana_coman slycordinator, for how long have you been in Korea? (south?) ; you can also join #asciilifeform to talk to asciilifeform
08:05 diana_coman and do register a key as otherwise your introduction will not have any person to be linked to
08:06 slycordinator Yes, South Korea. I've been here since February although I lived here a few years ago. My wife is from here and missed her country
08:09 diana_coman oh, not bad
08:12 slycordinator !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/aZ2ne/?raw=true
08:12 deedbot 34D174A2C91396A0975B8301054605BDAB923812 registered as slycordinator.
08:12 diana_coman well done
08:14 ave1 !!rate slycordinator 1 new blood, in South Korea
08:14 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xbtNH/?raw=true
08:14 ave1 !!v 5265653AA3B3CED1529AC5071FFC4CD4D8EBDDE1A3687C87A0AFD5D3832A41F0
08:14 deedbot ave1 rated slycordinator 1 << new blood, in South Korea
08:15 slycordinator And thank you for the info on the alternative for contacting asciilifeform; I'm looking into making a gentoo box for a NAS out of an ARM board he wrote up about
08:17 diana_coman !!v E84934B83B58BF4EE3FC021E48E8306960681A188CF9C88AA326E6E8B5DF6F8A
08:17 deedbot diana_coman rated slycordinator 1 << new blood, living in South Korea
08:18 slycordinator currently, I've been using an old laptop for the purpose as-needed but I need to replace it with something
08:18 diana_coman slycordinator, you prolly need to look at cuntoo as well then
08:18 diana_coman !!s cuntoo
08:19 diana_coman uhm, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cuntoo
08:24 slycordinator Thanks for the pointer; first I've heard of it. I've used gentoo off-and-on for years. Although with my English teaching, I've mostly had to use windows since most materials shared around have been for MS Office (and the linux alternatives didn't work with the stuff usually)
08:34 ave1 slycordinator, you can voice yourself with !!up
~ 49 minutes ~
09:24 asciilifeform hi slycordinator
09:24 asciilifeform slycordinator: yes i'm aware that comment-eater on my www is dead currently
09:24 asciilifeform slycordinator: were you looking for hints re rk3328 ? what do you need ?
09:32 asciilifeform !!up slycordinator
09:32 deedbot slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
09:33 slycordinator So, I haven't purchased one of the devices but I'm considering it as a local NAS for plex.
09:33 asciilifeform which device ? rk3328 ?
09:34 asciilifeform should work fine for nas, sure
09:34 slycordinator Yes
09:35 slycordinator and i was wanting to use a usb3 enclosure to salvage my laptop drive that's got the movies on it, using that for the / partition
09:36 asciilifeform this doesn't require any changes to the published example
09:36 slycordinator but i wasn't sure if the install stuff you had on your site would work for that instead of using a usb stick because of drivers and such
09:36 asciilifeform thing will boot off whatever's plugged in
09:36 slycordinator alright, sweet.
09:36 slycordinator thanks
09:37 slycordinator shouldn't be difficult then to make the switch once i get everything
09:37 asciilifeform slycordinator: the only 'driver' is the ehci thing , i rolled it into the example kernel, it'll work with any mass storage item plugged into the jack
09:37 asciilifeform lemme guess, slycordinator , this is yer first linux box ?
09:38 slycordinator no; i've used gentoo off and on for a while. it would be my first raspberry pi-like box, though
09:38 asciilifeform ah
09:40 slycordinator should be quite an easy build
09:46 slycordinator thanks for the information again. i have to go to bed. it's late here in Korea and I have to be up in the morning to teach
09:46 asciilifeform goodnight slycordinator
09:46 asciilifeform slycordinator: you can voice yourself when you come back,
09:46 asciilifeform !!help
09:46 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
09:46 asciilifeform ^ see manual
09:46 slycordinator have a good day
09:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862750 << i ought expand, since ave1 asked : my measurement is indirect, and is possible that could be wrong. what i did was to look for latency variance ( if my optical terminal knew how to send variant frames, shorter packets oughta move faster ) -- but found none, to the resolution of my clock.
09:50 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 09:33 ave1: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862451, I've been reading through the logs and could find no reference of how you did this. Could this be monitored with an FPGA? (there seem to be MAC level FPGA based routers).
09:51 asciilifeform haven't found yet a clear answer re what my particular isp's wan frame size is, however. ( and i expect that it will be peculiar to the given isp's gear , and may not apply across the board )
10:00 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862785 << a working 'atomic' create-or-fail-if-exists by definition excludes this scenario. linux claims to offer one, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860739 , but i've nfi yet whether it worx as printed on the crate
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10:00 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 10:15 mircea_popescu: specifically what i mean : if a process creates/deletes file on a very narrow schedule ; and another checks for file's existence on very narrow schedule, their respective pictures of when they think file exists and doesn't fails to match up.
10:00 a111 Logged on 2018-10-11 20:07 phf: asciilifeform: so the posix solution is to call open with O_CREAT | O_EXCL, which will attempt to create but will signal EEXIST if the file already exists. curiously default behavior O_CREAT will simply clobber
~ 1 hours 23 minutes ~
11:23 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/10/congo-family-pulls-caper-to-secure-relatives-corpse-after-ebola-death/ << Qntra - Congo: Family Pulls Caper To Secure Relative's Corpse After Ebola Death
11:35 billymg trinque: just a heads up, i'll be away from my machine for the next few days but should be able to have stuff put together by friday or early saturday, and will share
11:35 asciilifeform billymg: neato
11:44 asciilifeform in unrelated noose, mod6 et al : loox like trb doesn't remove banned peers from its addr table ! i.e. offers their addrs up to others, as if they were proper noades!! i never noticed this previously, it had to wait to be found empirically. really oughta be fixed, and pretty simple patch.
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11:45 asciilifeform just when i think 'no moar shitoshi surprises possible', i turn up yet another.
~ 22 minutes ~
12:07 mircea_popescu eulora is so much fucking nicer when you wake up to a working foxybot!
12:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha.
12:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862676 << speaking of this, might as well take the time to discuss the "stub manifest" point.
12:13 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 03:55 mircea_popescu: the leaves downstream from EACH n1 needn't be identical, nor needn't be different. in effect, the tree now has TWO groups of maintainers : those who maintain type 2 tree, for embeds, will not === those who maintain type 1 tree, for general use.
12:15 mircea_popescu so -- looking back to the crc32 situation, suppose that for whatever reason the consensus wasn't "yeah, should definitely have both" but "division is stupid, only tables are needed". at that juncture, ave1 could have made an alternate patch to the crc32-lookup consisting of merely a changed manifest, saying "Hey, for so and so reasons I think this should be a crc32-division, I intend to do it later."
12:16 mircea_popescu then later, when he had the time for it, or when others saw the wisdom of the point after his death, or whenever, that stub could've been replaced with the proper item.
12:19 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862793 << i'd rather never have to import c strings anywhere either, i'd say a major goal of the whole effort is to get rid of them. so paranthesis-yes!
12:19 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 10:26 ave1: btw, gnat specific; System.OS_Lib has 'Create_New_File' (it also has a temp file generator, but I cannot recommend, uses digits). bvt's implemention looks the way to go (Although the string allocations to talk to C should be removed)
12:21 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862800 << afaik he doesn't read pm's.
12:21 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 11:30 slycordinator: I thought it was him. I sent a PM earlier but wasn't sure if someone else was also involved.
12:21 asciilifeform i read'em, 1x/day or so
12:21 mircea_popescu a ok.
12:22 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862805 << any of the koreans you teach meet the qualifications of a) female b) young c) bright and d) active ? cuz there might be a job opening for one.
12:22 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 11:37 slycordinator: So, to introduce myself, I'm an American living in Korea teaching English and studying data science/machine learning in my free time
~ 21 minutes ~
12:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: btw for completeness strictly, note that there exists a ~third~ crc32 : division normally, but optionally generates table and then continues with table
12:43 asciilifeform i've used this in embedded boxen
12:44 asciilifeform ( it made sense when rom small but ram large )
12:44 mircea_popescu could live as patch on ave1 's patch lel
12:44 asciilifeform easily
12:44 asciilifeform supposing anybody actually needed this.
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12:45 mircea_popescu anyway, whole point being that we have elaborate research-driving/agreement-building & history-preservation tools.
12:45 mircea_popescu not that anyone has to use them for any purpose. but -- they do indeed exist.
12:45 asciilifeform verily
12:46 mircea_popescu i suppose they do create some obligation, as per ye olde "if you can -- you must", in the sense that much like girl can't imagien why she'd mate with dood who doesn't use soap, i can't imagine why i'd talk to dood who "has ideas" or w/e they call being filthy outside the walls.
12:47 asciilifeform ups the bar for civilization, indeed, sorta like once you've used indoor shitter you generally intend to keep using
12:48 mircea_popescu god knows all my attempts to dialogue, from http://trilema.com/surprised-by-joy-the-shape-of-my-early-life-adnotated to http://trilema.com/2017/the-ethics-of-liberty-by-murray-n-rothbard-adnotated-part-vi-a-crusoe-social-philosophy/ to http://trilema.com/2014/on-the-superiority-of-monarchy-or-adnotations-to-why-the-worst-get-on-top/ to what have you are entirely indistinguishable from "one day, mp decided to pay $x a visit ;
12:48 mircea_popescu soon thereafter returned, very puzzled -- why doesn't $x ever wash ?!"
12:49 mircea_popescu and this started after eg mpoepr's ~exhausting the live ponds.
12:50 mircea_popescu because yes, there very much is such a thing as a bar for civilisation, or at the very least for conversation. ~could~ talk to anyone, much like ~could~ very much shit outdoors ; but one strangely enough discovers in a short time that... doesn't really want to.
12:51 mircea_popescu the puzzler of all time for the average fetlife-grazed chickie, too. "wait... you mean to tell me ~you~ don't really care to talk ~to me~ ?!@?!?! but pantsuited hilarity gave us our rights!!!" sorta "this development goes neatly against everything i've been told to believe."
12:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform to go back to that thread : i suppose the "portability" discussion is deeply broken in empire (and no, linus, rms and friends aren't "a republic of their own", they're leningrad school and naught else). consider how http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862894 drives the dilemma : "if the trouble of maintaining a tree is not justified, why do you think the iron discussed is worth having ? if you think the iron disc
12:56 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 16:44 asciilifeform: supposing anybody actually needed this.
12:56 mircea_popescu ussed is worth having, why do you think maintaining the respective branch is too much work ?"
12:56 mircea_popescu ie, before us, "portability" was an abstract nothing, single-datapoint debalanced nonsense, like "the pursuit of happiness" or "safety first" or "no means no" or whatever other fucktarded pantsuit nonsense.
12:57 mircea_popescu after us, it is a stable, sustainable and sane item, two data points : "to get x you burn y, make a call"
12:57 asciilifeform 'portability' without active testing is an empty promisetronic thing
12:57 asciilifeform hence the retardation of autoconfism
12:57 mircea_popescu how the fuck they managed to live before, uncomputable-cost-portability herp derp is anyone's guess.
12:57 asciilifeform ( or consider http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862533 thread )
12:57 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 00:25 phf: but you would never know, because in sbcl it generally does the right thing
12:58 mircea_popescu (and the experienced historians among the "anyone" guessing will point to -- HIDDEN EXTERNALITY!!! as fucking always! they hijacked their conversation channels to repeat over and over AND OVER again "if you want it -- write it", ie, "the cost of portability, as the backflow of using stupid hardware, is hidden under the rug tee heee")
12:59 asciilifeform btw phf , i'm starting to think that esthlos-vtron could be turned into a proper replacement for asdf,quicklisp,all the heathen rubbish packagerisms
13:00 asciilifeform really, sbcl ( or any other cltron ) oughta boot up by eating a set of keys and a vtree.
13:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform precisely my poiont. yet again as always & forever, the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783773 of http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/ at work.
13:00 a111 Logged on 2018-02-14 14:22 mircea_popescu: MEANWHILE, however, they have 100% unaccounted for the time externality. so basically it's a contest consisting of a guy without legs going about finding fault with people's fingers. because he's decided "legs don't count", and so as he has much better hands than the rest of those losers he should be captain of the football team.
13:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i thought trinque was doing that exact thing for the linux machine.
13:02 asciilifeform as eventual replacement for 'portage' aha
13:02 mircea_popescu right ? gentoo.portage ~= sblc.asdf ?
13:03 asciilifeform a trooly ultimate sane replacement could replace both, yes
13:04 mircea_popescu it's kinda funny how the predictable result of an hour's logs is that... "hey guise... there's even MOAR space at the trough than we thought! you have engineermanyears to put to some use ? ohohoh here, here, uses, pick, choose!"
13:11 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "these varietes dominate" varietals ?
13:12 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: ty, fxd
13:13 BingoBoingo In other punchlines, titless canadian man wins a women's cycling championship
13:13 mircea_popescu "ruderalis plants reservoir " << you're missing a verb.
13:14 mircea_popescu bwahaha. good thing hilary clinton gave them their rights!
13:14 BingoBoingo fxd
13:16 mircea_popescu http://bingology.net/2018/10/14/that-one-agricultural-product-and-uruguay/#selection-125.68-125.85 << i've recently seen this, it was something else. "like triple-dose ketamine"'d be the best way to describe it, nevermind "could not walk", subj could not keep eyes open, 6+ hrs.
13:18 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo there's no such thing as "propogation"!
13:18 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: There have been a number of times in Uruguay where I walked through what could have been "opium den" scenes, except without anyone being in danger of acute respiratory cessation
13:18 BingoBoingo fx'd again
13:19 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo it does go pretty faint, the respiration. which yes, can definitely panic the more medically-informed.
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13:21 * BingoBoingo has not taken to close measurements of vital signs
13:21 mircea_popescu lmao the drug on wars. ok, i was entertain't.
13:21 BingoBoingo *not taken to collecting
13:22 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> lmao the drug on wars. ok, i was entertain't. << Intentional
13:22 mircea_popescu oh, i'm sure.
13:23 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo is there some subtext of "hey, anyone wanna finance my becoming a grower" in there ?
13:26 mircea_popescu "As they succeeded, the cool is gone" << so fucking true!
13:27 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Not at present. I am too stretched for time at the moment. It is more of a dump information of of my head to consult it later without keeping it in an active workspace portion of the head piece.
13:28 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862935 << lol, how much does one gotta take, to get to this
13:28 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 17:19 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it does go pretty faint, the respiration. which yes, can definitely panic the more medically-informed.
13:28 mircea_popescu (also great case study in http://trilema.com/2015/the-triviality-of-slaying-the-surviving-socialist-beast/ ; it takes barely a farthing's worth of concerted effort to rape ourdemocracy in any ghole you choose. the only reason pedophilia, necrophilia or w/e else isn't "legally protected" today is strictly that all pedos, necrophiliacs etc are fucking morons. otherwise, self-mutilation legally protected to the degree of http://
13:28 mircea_popescu btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862927 ; and similarly ANYTHING ELSE. the bar strictly is "more than three people get together who aren't mentally subnormal". that's it!)
13:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform three tokes.
13:29 asciilifeform of leaf?!
13:29 mircea_popescu yeah.
13:29 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: No one smokes leaf, of flower
13:29 mircea_popescu of plant matter as opposed to some distillate.
13:29 asciilifeform nuts
13:29 mircea_popescu which is what i expect he was asking.
13:29 asciilifeform i dun think this exists in usa, of yet
13:29 BingoBoingo And not concentrated post modern tributes to hashish. It is of hashish
13:30 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: It is
13:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the interplay of random hybridation ( BingoBoingo does a good job of describing what open source weed did) and personal genetics. this is what happens.
13:30 asciilifeform seems excessive, tho, why would anyone want it as expensive sleeping pill.
13:31 mircea_popescu i have no idea. but i mentioned because a) wouldn't have believed the story and b) witnessed with own eyes.
13:31 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Because they are chasing the euphoric effects their body's tendancy to homeostasis has robbed them of
13:31 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo this wasn't intentional.
13:32 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I am going off one fellow's account of why he went full bore on some "Bubba Kush" his hookup had duly warned him about
13:32 asciilifeform i also wonder if there's a 'chukcha and firewater' effect in play, possibly some folx have weak enzyme
13:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform long time smoker (though with pauses).
13:33 asciilifeform even odder then.
13:33 mircea_popescu truth be told, "weak enzyme -- to what ?" people who smoked in college pre 2000ish and then kinda stopped aren'\t ready for what has become of the pot scene.
13:34 mircea_popescu back then, pot used to be like porn. nowadays -- also is like porn. compare and contrast.
13:34 asciilifeform supposing it is possible to use the word in application to doping, seems like the pill folx are 'smarter' -- they at least have a rough idea of how much $subst they're eating
13:35 mircea_popescu in 1980, you'd pop in an entirely random porno vhs and kinda know what you'd get ; and similarily light up and similarily know.
13:35 mircea_popescu in 2020, well...
13:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is very much not so, if you've ever seen any of the pill kiddies pill.
13:36 asciilifeform can't say that i follow subj actively; but doesn't pill at least have measurable mass, and you can estimate how much glue and how much $item
13:36 BingoBoingo Story time: A kid came to Uruguay from a non-gringo white anglophone country. Regular smoker, he only intended a couple weeks in Uruguay before moving on to explore the rest of the continent. He asked me where to find weed and I told his this is Uruguay, weed will find him when he stops looking for it. 4 days into Uruguay he found pot. Five months later, after having spent nearly 3 months at the same hostel, one and a half with some
13:36 BingoBoingo girl in Argentina, and a couple more weeks back at the hostel...
13:36 BingoBoingo Kid goes home because he had a moment of clarity
13:41 mircea_popescu is he starting a cult back in ohio ?
13:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform most kids go by color as the only indication. the more advanced also look for lettering.
13:41 BingoBoingo Nah, he's going to get his driver's license and maybe even a job
13:41 mircea_popescu pill kiddies are very much 12yos mentally.
13:42 BingoBoingo Whereas the pot kiddies very much imagine they are wine snobs
13:42 asciilifeform lol if only gabriel_laddel were alive to defend his people!11
13:42 mircea_popescu wasn't he doing coke or w/e ?
13:42 asciilifeform i dun recall precisely what, but iirc it came in pill
13:44 BingoBoingo iirc some sort of amphetamine
13:44 BingoBoingo And something about a foot
13:46 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> in 1980, you'd pop in an entirely random porno vhs and kinda know what you'd get ; and similarily light up and similarily know. << The classic 'pot' pot is still readily available in Uruguay. Pressed, consistent, shelf stable Product of Paraguay is available from most fellows in vests helping people parallel park
13:46 BingoBoingo It's what most of this continent has
13:47 BingoBoingo And it's production appears to largely be a subsistence farming thing rather than mega-cartel deal
13:47 mircea_popescu i can't imagine how it'd be consistent then, but anyways.
13:48 BingoBoingo "Traditional Cultivation"
13:48 BingoBoingo Like hillbilly white lightening
13:48 asciilifeform possibly they do like the wine people ? (i.e. 'x % of grapes from yr n, x % from n-1, ... ' etc )
13:48 BingoBoingo Or rice
13:54 mircea_popescu "In spite of the frequency with which the practice of rolling joints is carried out, skill in rolling remains rare." << this will be the written epitaph on this whole sad world. sorta like Abdulkhakim Ismailov's twin watches the epitaph of previouis reich.
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13:59 mircea_popescu "Consumption of marijuana promotes the development and belief in false memories. The social engineering potential for this is tremendous, which is likely why Pantsuit pushes normalizing marijuana consumption. The effect on activism in the previous point is likely why Pantsuit is cautious in actually legalizing cannabis." << check it out, #metoo was really of and by and for and about potheads ?!
13:59 mircea_popescu who could have guessed!
14:00 BingoBoingo Hey, down here I am watching the Fat Forehead party realize it doesn't have a activist base anymore in real time.
14:03 mircea_popescu kinda the same all over the world, http://trilema.com/2017/where-the-fuck-is-everyone/ etc. might have nothing to do with pot and everything to do with http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-11#1500948 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859575 evolution.
14:03 a111 Logged on 2016-07-11 12:11 mircea_popescu: hilary should really be a very informative example for all teenaged girls today : NOTHING slavery inflicts upon you is quite as bad as what "being a successful" mainstream derp does to you.
14:03 a111 Logged on 2018-10-08 17:21 mircea_popescu: as i say -- the young hussies already are looking for slavery and abjection, in contrast to their stupid mulas and stramulas. from rotherham to anytown, usa, the 15 yo is saying "please, beat, rape and light me on fire -- anything whatsoever but having to talk with my kinmorons."
14:04 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862995 << And to be clear on this point I am not talking about a lack of artistically inspired one time smoke instruments. I mean they produce joints that are poorly packed, with loose paper, that need substantial babying because they fail to burn consistently (Even when they cheat by bulking up the payload with tobacco to ease rolling)..
14:04 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 17:54 mircea_popescu: "In spite of the frequency with which the practice of rolling joints is carried out, skill in rolling remains rare." << this will be the written epitaph on this whole sad world. sorta like Abdulkhakim Ismailov's twin watches the epitaph of previouis reich.
14:05 BingoBoingo Well, for the most part pot is a marginal thing mostly used by marginal people
14:05 mircea_popescu but yes, substantial change in teh world.
14:05 BingoBoingo Can't pin all of the swells in the world on it
14:08 BingoBoingo But yes, if Trump legalizes weed at the federal level which he appears to be moving towards... it will be for very good reason.
14:08 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: lol, rolling cigs is sumthing even gulag inmates had down to an exact science
14:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform gulag inmates weren't redditarded.
14:09 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Gulag inmates have to be cool in some way, however trivial to end up in gulag. Legal pot smokers face no such barrier to entry.
14:09 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: usg is on an 'embrace & extend' tack. not simply the pot thing, either -- consider, 'uber', 'airbnb', etc through lens of 'attempts to make unemployed zeks, driven into piecework, to document income & pay tax'
14:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform uber is rather "we'll produce an alt-frontend dating site for orclands, where the morons will pay usg to use it". very much mercantilism desperation on usg.blue part.
14:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's several distinct things
14:11 asciilifeform one of'em, imho , is 'all those folx driving unofficial cabs, make'em pay tax'
14:11 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: It's not just USG. All fiat wanna be sovereigns are inclined to capturing tax from undocumented traditional activities.
14:11 mircea_popescu nah, whole fuckling point is that cab services work well in orclands, and the orcs pay tax already.
14:12 mircea_popescu just, they don't pay it via WU, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861440 item.
14:12 a111 Logged on 2018-10-12 23:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it meanwhile dawned on me. why the fuck would wu even be part of this conversation.
14:12 mircea_popescu also -- SOMEHOW -- uber doesn't have bingoboingo's problem. for THEM it is a-ok to terrorist money all over the world.
14:13 mircea_popescu ie, usg undergoing exact same process argentina was, back when old whore still thought she can be president whether i say ok or not.
14:13 asciilifeform uber worx exactly like the 'reliable' wu -- they force chump to register bank acct etc
14:13 asciilifeform so moneys move usgistically, rather than 'terroristically'
14:13 asciilifeform erry penny reported.
14:14 mircea_popescu not from what i've seen, still cash payments.
14:14 mircea_popescu (admittedly, seen like 3.)
14:14 asciilifeform maybe in orcistans ? how does this work, they have physical offices ?
14:15 mircea_popescu yuou hand the man at the wheel some bills and move on. how else ?
14:15 asciilifeform in usa, uber client is a pnoje proggy, and demands CC #; to be 'cabbie', requires acct and linked bank thing, and they file 'form 1040' for tax db
14:15 mircea_popescu not here.
14:15 asciilifeform ( and no can't pay with cash , in usa )
14:15 mircea_popescu here, they just take 20% of their revenue and send it to washington so washington can pretend like it's a place.
14:15 asciilifeform interesting, possibly what mircea_popescu saw wasn't even an actual 'uber' cabbie, but just some d00d with the sticker for no reason
14:16 mircea_popescu used the app ?
14:16 mircea_popescu they don't use the stickers here, people beat them up.
14:16 asciilifeform rly ? used app, and it didn't eat a cc ? interesting
14:17 mircea_popescu this idea that pantsuitism is well regarded abroad is a very narrowly in-group wank.
14:17 asciilifeform rright but it's a pantsuit production, this thing. i had nfi that they had 'lite' variant for orcs
14:17 mircea_popescu so no, nobody in right mind would ~advertise~ they're faggots.
14:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform as far as i know, item exists 100% as orcistan theft, because the local morons will pay the usg corp a chunk of their local income.
14:17 mircea_popescu i don't know it has any other revenue than these orc donations.
14:18 asciilifeform for the privilege of using the app? lol!
14:18 mircea_popescu ikr ?
14:18 asciilifeform btw on usa end, they've turned into a kind of ~bus~ service, client pays 3-4x less if he is willing to sit in a car fulla randos (which naturally makes loops , to put'em in the correct places)
14:19 mircea_popescu i dunno it ever had any utility or any userbase in us. 100% "high5" item, "big in pakistan!" sorta thing.
14:19 asciilifeform ( and they've put in a sort of unofficial gamble component, often enuff the car will have no one but 1 )
14:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: massive userbase in east coast usa
14:20 asciilifeform ( e.g. washington, has more or less 1 or 2 uberists per city block, at any given hour , some full, some empty )
14:20 mircea_popescu and in the orclands, its utility is 100% as a dating site, "hey girly [working for "corporation" aka call center, nursing batshit insane delusions as to how you're a sorta hilary and anyone gives a shit about what yo ufished out of your belly button] : would you rather walk, or would you rather save and occasionally ask for a hot young boy who owns his own car take a half hour look at you ?
14:21 mircea_popescu so they get stuck in traffic, and she tries on her best 12yo moves, with the eyelids and shit, and figures out how to tell him later she's got a 2yo in tow, notwithstanding she's barely 20something.
14:21 mircea_popescu this rarely works, but the fact that it works at all...
14:21 asciilifeform twist : ( at least in usa ) they demand that the car be no older than 3y. and given as typical cabbie is not particularly creditworthy, they give the chump '0% until missed payment' loans to buy'em
14:22 asciilifeform partnered with some lender thing
14:22 mircea_popescu the sort of imbecile moron who http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-403.0-407.140 can always be hit for a small bill for "the hope" that "saviour".
14:22 mircea_popescu kinda how xtianity was built, too. mary magdalene bigger deal than the other mary whore.
14:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform item entirely exists to get idiots to undertake private loans to finance corp. which orc morons ALOS do.
14:22 mircea_popescu so uber can pretend it has a power and influence other people are paying for.
14:23 asciilifeform i had nfi that autos-on-credit were a thing in orcistans
14:23 mircea_popescu it'll be the lulz of all time, once THIS groupon goes the way of the other, and all these tards are left paying the loans. will paraguay invade us to extract reparatios for its scaqmmed citizenry ?
14:23 asciilifeform always pictured it as a usa thing, where they have extensive structure for beating the money out of idjits who default
14:23 mircea_popescu here, 0 infrastructure, but orcs morons.
14:25 asciilifeform re structure -- they're rolling out ipnoje-style cars, that brick if they dun get keepalive from server
14:25 asciilifeform cheaper 'repo', the idea
14:25 asciilifeform i expect at some point they'll get up an' drive themselves back to vendor if default
14:25 mircea_popescu here it's mostly toyotas.
14:26 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> re structure -- they're rolling out ipnoje-style cars, that brick if they dun get keepalive from server << These have been a thing in the US for a while with the pay by week specialist dealer/lenders
14:28 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-11#1712049 << oblig
14:28 a111 Logged on 2017-09-11 14:19 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-11#1712044 << https://vimeo.com/1665301
14:29 asciilifeform i expect at some point standard usa toilet will switch into reverse gear and disgorge geisers of shit if you miss a payment
14:44 BingoBoingo In new interesting to asciilifeform mod6 and other Pizarro folks, Uruguay is about to roll out a new type of corporate structure. Sociedad de Acción Simplificadas, going to look into it and see if it is at all interesting.
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14:45 BingoBoingo Found out it is a thing just now through an invitation to be fed breakfast at an event discussing the thing.
~ 24 minutes ~
15:10 bvt hello
15:10 lobbesbot bvt: Sent 17 hours and 27 minutes ago: <phf> ^^
15:10 bvt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862641 -- mircea_popescu, diana_coman, i'm in the process of getting some btc currently, after that will get pizarro shared hosting.
15:10 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 03:02 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862295 << bootstrapping problem, he has to get vtools compiled to press mp-wp to install it on the rk he already bought.
15:10 bvt should set everything up till the end of the week. i didn't rent a rk; but already tested pressing mp-wp locally.
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15:10 BingoBoingo bvt: Sweet
15:10 bvt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862597 -- good catch, you must be right. i'll check that.
15:10 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 01:42 phf: bvt: your patch has "Binary files..." at the very end of it. i assume it wasn't made with vdiff
15:11 bvt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862604 -- specialization was exactly the issue for me
15:11 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 01:53 phf: oh i guess i see why that would be tricky, because of the specialization. i don't know enough ada yet to know how to fix that... perhaps just renaming it to Temporary_File is sufficient
15:11 bvt re naming: i agree that it clashes with Ada naming convention. will rename to Temporary_File.
15:11 BingoBoingo bvt: I think when he made that comment he confused you with the other promising newcomer
15:11 bvt that's what I think as well
15:11 bvt btw, now vpatch.adb does not require Interfaces.C/Int.C.Strings for anything, they will go away in the revised vpatch.
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15:12 bvt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862638 -- i agree that this solution is not that great. however, other alternatives have problems of their own.
15:12 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 03:01 mircea_popescu: bvt "Ada exposes no functions that have 'exclusive open' semantics, so I imported C
15:13 bvt ave1, can you expand on getting rid of string allocations? I see a way to get rid of it for Mode, but not for the Path argument. i can move its c-string from heap to stack, but that would be it. anyhow, i will revise this aspect.
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15:13 bvt the System/GNAT.OS_Lib find is interesting, i have missed it.
15:13 bvt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862867 -- i'd bet this is file-system- and linux-version-specific. at least in the NFS case lack of support for some versions is explicitly advertised.
15:13 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 14:00 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862785 << a working 'atomic' create-or-fail-if-exists by definition excludes this scenario. linux claims to offer one, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860739 , but i've nfi yet whether it worx as printed on the crate
15:15 asciilifeform bvt: i find it mind-boggling that there is not a standard , portable , machine-wide locking mechanism. but apparently this is so.
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15:16 asciilifeform https://archive.is/ozgIw << see also, on subj
15:16 asciilifeform ^ bvt phf et al
15:17 asciilifeform '...If you want to lock a file in $HOME, forget about it as $HOME might be NFS and locks generally are not reliable there. The same applies to every other file system that might be shared across the network. If the file you want to lock is accessible to more than your own user (i.e. an access mode > 0700), forget about locking, it would allow others to block your application indefinitely. If your program is non-trivial or threaded or
15:17 asciilifeform uses a framework such as Gtk+ or Qt or any of the module-based APIs such as NSS, PAM, ... forget about about POSIX locking. If you care about portability, don't use file locking.' etc
15:19 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863069 << seems likelty one of those right wing "pay low tax get economy going" things. sometimes they're used as bait and switch by govt.
15:19 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 18:44 BingoBoingo: In new interesting to asciilifeform mod6 and other Pizarro folks, Uruguay is about to roll out a new type of corporate structure. Sociedad de Acción Simplificadas, going to look into it and see if it is at all interesting.
15:19 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Looking superficially at the law for it, it seems like a way to attract crowdfund stuff
15:19 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863075 << a ok.
15:19 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 19:10 bvt: should set everything up till the end of the week. i didn't rent a rk; but already tested pressing mp-wp locally.
15:20 bvt yes, these lockfiles are just a big mess.
15:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863084 << good!
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15:20 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 19:11 bvt: btw, now vpatch.adb does not require Interfaces.C/Int.C.Strings for anything, they will go away in the revised vpatch.
15:21 mircea_popescu bvt you asking for a primer on the longstanding hatred of c strings here, or found on own ?
15:22 bvt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863102 -- well they moved to another file, with tempfile implementation. i guess ave1 knows a total cure
15:22 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 19:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863084 << good!
15:22 bvt i have my own painful experience with them
15:23 bvt so no primer is necessary
15:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863091 << at present i believe the ~entire file model~ in unix might have been subtly broken since the very beginning, and that breakage has in turn informed the way people think about the fs/os interface so as to not notice it. because it's as you see, a widening breach, what started with atomic creation moved on to permissions, and in general... in a word, it's not directly evident unix ha
15:24 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 19:15 asciilifeform: bvt: i find it mind-boggling that there is not a standard , portable , machine-wide locking mechanism. but apparently this is so.
15:24 mircea_popescu s a file system AT ALL, and the "all things are files" is just a thin wraper on a turd sausage made out of "we have no data model beyond ram and our disk doesn't actually work".
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15:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's broken in a dozen major ways and definitely noticeable
15:25 bvt it seems that 'c strings' in ada are still controlled by ada mechanisms, i.e. they are ada strings (with bounds checking), just with null byte in the end
15:25 mircea_popescu most terrifying part being that i can readily review history to the point where this would very much have been exactly the implicit assumption, because fuck tape.
15:25 asciilifeform ( locking, permissions, variant semantics ( nfs somehow permitted to behave strangely ) , etc
15:26 mircea_popescu so the situation may actually be that no computer system currently deployed actually has a file system.
15:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: observe that current subj is a classic '4 ring binder' . we arent actually looking for file lock, file lock simply happens to be the only available ~working tool for machinewide-semaphore
15:26 mircea_popescu exactly.
15:27 mircea_popescu or rather, the item all the locals point to when asked about bar/club/disco/where the fuck do you take the whores ?!?!?
15:27 mircea_popescu just because they all point to the coconut shop dun mean coconut shop is either a club or a place you'd take the whores.
15:28 asciilifeform ( http://btcbase.org/log/2013-12-22#429394 for the l0gz/n00bz )
15:28 a111 Logged on 2013-12-22 16:56 asciilifeform: 'what people “want” is a function of what they learn is available. e.g., do Americans want three-ring binders, and Europeans four-ring binders? or do they want binders and take whatever number of holes they come with? or do they want something that can help them organize their papers and take whatever is available? or do they really want a less cluttered office and ease of storage and retrieval of the infor
15:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform previous run into this was with the "what's a file's name" ambiguity i axed into "fully specified paths inclued". but that wasn't the problem, that was a random symptom of the fact nobody ever thought about files in unix.
15:30 mircea_popescu if you recall that convo.
15:30 asciilifeform several threads iirc
15:30 mircea_popescu right. but this wasn't because "nobody thought of file names like, ever". it was fucking because "nobody CAN think of file names, because there's a deeper issue"
15:31 mircea_popescu and the deeper issue might be that there is in fact no os, just a maldesigned, half-impelemented, thoroughly buggy process emulator shoehorned into describing a disk.
15:31 mircea_popescu ie, not "all things are files", but "the only way you can access the disk is through this mangled malloc"
15:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i wrote about this on my www in the past, whole concept of 'file system' is consequence of the nonvolatile memory poverty that gave us the orig ram/disk split
15:32 asciilifeform really machine oughta have 1 addr space, and keep it hygienic, this is physically possible with 2000s tech
15:33 asciilifeform flash disk really oughta be simply a thing that kicks in when the power fails and box runs from capacitor and saves state.
15:33 mircea_popescu this all leaves us stranged with such questions as "what is a file" and "what should a filesystem evben be".
15:33 asciilifeform possibly misconceived q entirely.
15:33 mircea_popescu heh, stranged. stranded in strange.
15:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform possibly.
15:34 asciilifeform for instance 1 possible answer is 'no files, errything is an s-expression, and names live in gns'
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15:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: observe that a TB of ecc ram costs approx same as tb of quality ssd.
15:35 * asciilifeform brb,teatime
15:41 mircea_popescu aha.
15:46 BingoBoingo To update the binder hole count, Uruguay is a two hole binder country
~ 19 minutes ~
16:05 asciilifeform lol!
~ 27 minutes ~
16:33 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/tell-me-what-if-the-republic-were-antique/ << Trilema - Tell me, what if the Republic were antique ?
~ 55 minutes ~
17:29 Mocky uber in Qatar is cash, much to my surprise. I popped a sim into my second phone, made an uber acct, verifed with a text message, no CC, no identity verification. i was surprised
17:29 Mocky they also have uber-knockoffs, one named careem
17:31 Mocky place is crawling with uber drives, never more than 3 minutes away no matter where you go, almost all driving a Kia
17:35 BingoBoingo This Uber thing kind of sounds like "VoyEnTaxi"
~ 28 minutes ~
18:03 deedbot http://bimbo.club/?p=53 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/12/2018
~ 37 minutes ~
18:41 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/10/us-army-seeks-candidates-for-direct-comminsion-to-colonel-because-cyber/ << Qntra - US Army Seeks Candidates For Direct Comminsion To Colonel Because "Cyber"
18:41 BingoBoingo Congratulations nicoleci on your first Qntra comment! http://qntra.net/2018/10/pantsuit-media-slanders-kim-kardashians-husband-as-an-incel/#comment-119443
~ 21 minutes ~
19:03 mircea_popescu lol!
~ 40 minutes ~
19:43 BingoBoingo In other rough cuts from the mines https://archive.is/JVNlI
~ 35 minutes ~
20:19 asciilifeform in oooother noose, 'pixelqi' lcd ( thread http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860677 ) is ~not~ compat with 'lenovo s10-3' -- screw holes in wrong places , and connector dun reach .
20:19 a111 Logged on 2018-10-11 17:08 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i recently found that lcd panel made by (defunkt) 'pixelqi co', pq3qi-01 , is still sold by chinese ( i have nfi if clones, or old stock ), ~100 $ ea; the thing toggles from 1024x600 colour/backlit into a 3072x600 greyscale reflector thing, worx with various lappies ( sadly not x60, it's a 16:9 )
20:19 * asciilifeform will try again with 'samsung n150' box, with sadder kbd, but same chipset, and reportedly fitting
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~ 1 hours 49 minutes ~
22:08 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862662 << yeah, I think I must've still been waking up that morning. my unexamined line of thought at the time was that since it doesn't list in here, there's no need to have it here. Then I remembered there's still use in, e.g. being able to bid, view orders, etc.
22:08 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 03:47 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862346 << wait, what ?
22:09 lobbes I'll start working to get the voicing figured out for auctionbot and bring it in here.
22:10 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862788 << this is a good idea for a feature. Once I get logbot-voicing figured out I'm thinking of setting up a general purpose 'miscbot' for such things as the later-tell and the duckduckgo search. I'll try and work this into the later-tell feature
22:10 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 10:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862617 << speaking of which, hey lobbes, feel like adding a param to !Q later tell, whereby it can tell next it sees guy but not earlier than x hours ?
~ 21 minutes ~
22:31 mircea_popescu lobbes you wanna havbe a buncha separate bots ? why ?
~ 43 minutes ~
23:14 lobbes well, my ultimate aim is to eventually rewrite ALL of lobbesbot's functionality to stand on top of logbot versus the heathen limnoria. auctionbot was the first victory in this regard.
23:15 lobbes but there's still the !Qlater tell, the #eulora log-quoting, #eulora log search, etc. I guess I figured why not take the opportunity to organize vastly different functionalities into separate bots. (e.g. all the logger-related functionality in one bot, auction/ticker-announce/price-history in auctionbot, everything-else in 'miscbot')
23:15 mircea_popescu won't it be a nightmare to keep a bunch of separate bots up ?
23:15 mircea_popescu and if you're putting them all on the same box what's "separate" mean anyway ?
23:16 lobbes well I'd retire lobbesbot once everything rewritten.
23:16 lobbes and not all on one box either
23:17 lobbes or perhaps lobbesbot can be the 'misc bot'
23:23 lobbes but maybe you have a point. I gotta noodle on it. there's a balance somewhere
23:24 mircea_popescu i guess the idea is, i dunno what you're trying to achieve ?
23:24 mircea_popescu is it that your mental picture of the bot gets too gnarly because of all these diff functions ?
23:29 lobbes there's that. then there's also the "command namespace collisions" issue. For example http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-15#1770696
23:29 a111 Logged on 2018-01-15 11:44 lobbes: btw "!Qsarchive" (without the "-") also works to call the command. ("!Qs" was already in-use to search logs.minigame.bz)
23:30 mircea_popescu this should be approached rather thjan fled from
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23:30 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862873 << Thanks for reporting. I'll add this to the list to take a look @ & replicate.
23:30 a111 Logged on 2018-10-15 15:44 asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, mod6 et al : loox like trb doesn't remove banned peers from its addr table ! i.e. offers their addrs up to others, as if they were proper noades!! i never noticed this previously, it had to wait to be found empirically. really oughta be fixed, and pretty simple patch.
23:33 lobbes mircea_popescu: how do you mean?
23:33 mircea_popescu well, restructure the commands namespace, rather than making n bots
23:37 lobbes yeah, that makes sense. Ol' causes and purposes. The only cause I can see right now for separate bot is if wanting to keep it on separate box
23:38 mircea_popescu something like that.
23:38 mircea_popescu meanwhile in french class, "Je sens sur ta lèvre une odeur de fièvre de gosse mal nourri ; et sous ta caresse je sens une ivresse qui m'anéantit"
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