Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-01-10 | 2018-01-12 → ↓
00:57 mod6 looks like mktemp will do the trick
00:59 mod6 all the changes needed to replace the current method of creating the ~/.gnupgtmp dir are these: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/8tGhm/?raw=true
01:00 mod6 experimental ! ^
01:01 mod6 all of the automated tests passed, so that's a good sign
01:03 mod6 thoughts, comments welcome
01:07 mod6 (also, yes, the get_homedir sub can be trimmed)
~ 18 minutes ~
01:25 lobbes Achtung, archive enthusiasts! Over 80K archived and zipped URLs are now searchable via this php-tron: http://lobbesblog.com/queryarchive/view.php?searchterm=qntra.net&sortby=date_desc
01:25 lobbes Top three things I need to do next: 1) set up automated updating of the reporting database the thing sits on (currently 'stale' data). 2) set up lobbesbot to similarly search via IRC commands 3) Zip distribution system!
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01:27 lobbes further out on list: 4) allow bulk submission of links via link to a plaintext list 5) ability to search the -content- of the zips for a phrase (thanks to mats for the suggestion)
01:28 mod6 hey neato!
01:28 ben_vulpes 5 sounds v. cool
01:38 trinque bravo lobbes !
01:39 mircea_popescu nice
~ 2 hours 3 minutes ~
03:43 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2018/01/11/the-kinds-of-comments-other-blog-commenters-have-for-intro-to-bitcoin-articles-in-2018/ << Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The kinds of comments other blog commenters have for Intro-to-Bitcoin articles in 2018.
~ 4 hours 29 minutes ~
08:12 asciilifeform !~ticker --market all
08:12 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 13801.0, vol: 19495.15566039 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 13801.0, vol: 72054.84320398 | Volume-weighted last average: 13801.0
08:17 shinohai ^ Unlike teh gribble maintainer, I removed the btc-e price
08:17 shinohai lobbes: Your Qntra thing was a very nice thing to wake up to this morning.
~ 28 minutes ~
08:46 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-10#1768419 << All reg'd now the accounts are filing bank account papers. Datacenter rep did indeed disclose lack of care where wire transfers come from so long as paid
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08:46 a111 Logged on 2018-01-10 15:51 mircea_popescu: o hey, so corp all reg'd and everything ? nice.
08:48 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-10#1768440 << BWAHAHAHAHA http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-10#1768440
08:48 a111 Logged on 2018-01-10 16:35 mircea_popescu: anyone recall those ancient lulz ?
08:48 BingoBoingo Sorry, http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/11/26/cycles-repeat-themselves-mcxnow/
~ 53 minutes ~
09:41 danielpbarron !~later tell trinque ok i finally got around to looking at this cuntoo thing. machine can't load the kernel. when i chroot to try to rebuild it, i can't even mount /dev points or df -h
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09:41 jhvh1 danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
~ 20 minutes ~
10:02 asciilifeform !~later tell phf plox to snarf seal from http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2026&cpage=1#comment-18614 , ty
10:02 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
10:04 deedbot http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/01/11/unsanitarily-close-tres-generaciones-una-cita/ << Bingo Blog - Unsanitarily Close Tres Generaciones, Una Cita
10:16 shinohai It !!ups itself
10:17 phf or else it gets the hoes again
10:18 asciilifeform ohai phf
10:18 asciilifeform here's an interesting find for phf : turns out that snap-on-cable rf chokes do wonder for 'model f' kbd 'ghost keystroke' problem
10:19 asciilifeform even after painting the inside of the plastic top of mine with conductive pait, i still occasionally got this headache. now seems to be gone. ( cable was antenna... )
10:19 asciilifeform *paint
10:20 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 'warning to head' ?
10:20 phf that's hilarious, ty
10:21 asciilifeform phf: get the kind that can fit 3-4 turns of whatever usb cord you used.
10:21 phf you know if the problem is there in the original design also?
10:21 asciilifeform and put 1 on each end.
10:21 deedbot http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/11/eucrypt-chapter-5-c-m-e-mod-n/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 5: C = M ^ e mod n
10:21 asciilifeform afaik was not in original design. i think herr cornall's replacement board design was not quite 'pro' quality, tbh
10:22 asciilifeform but i dun have a better one myself, either
10:23 phf sekoore keyboard design!! leaks so much data it catches its own transmission
10:23 asciilifeform phf: ftr i think the 'matrix' design is ridiculous. esp in a device that cost what a harley cost at the time.
10:24 asciilifeform really oughta have been '1 key, 1 wire, 1 chip pin'
10:27 phf hmm, they gave up on 1 key 1 wire long before though. those pdp keyboards, dec? was space cadet it?
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10:27 asciilifeform nope, matrix
10:27 asciilifeform all of them
10:27 asciilifeform every known kbd .
10:27 asciilifeform at least every single one i've ever seen a photo of the inside of.
10:27 asciilifeform ( the ones that used soldered wires instead of pcb -- still matrix. )
10:28 asciilifeform phf: i even suspect that it is possible to improve the cornall design with... randomized scan. i suspect that the sequential scan, sets up resonances.
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10:29 asciilifeform http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb-web/ibm-capsense-usb.html << subj; for folx reading the thread and thinking 'wtf'
10:32 mod6 mornin
10:32 asciilifeform ohai mod6
10:32 * mod6 tips hat to asciilifeform
10:33 phf i have a second model f that i was promissing someone to make operational, i'll play around with that one
10:37 asciilifeform phf: exclusing items on wheels , i dun think i've ever owned a mechanical device that was as much of a bitch to reassemble , as the 'f'
10:37 asciilifeform *excluding
10:37 asciilifeform i ended up buying a full set of carpenter's clamps, and keeping'em around just for it..
10:38 asciilifeform ( and if you make a mistake -- ALL of the flappers fall out: all 122 of'em... )
10:39 phf ne imela baba problem, kupila porosya..
10:40 asciilifeform aaaha.
10:40 asciilifeform the flip side of the medal , is that once the thing is assembled, that's it, for another three decades
10:41 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: ty
10:42 phf my grandfather (and his generation) spent their leisure time working on cars (also billiard and preferance). i can't help but think that working on keyboards is a bit of a step down :o
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10:42 asciilifeform errything's a step down.
10:43 asciilifeform next generation will spend time working on shoes. ( if cardboard duct taped to foot can be called 'shoe' )
10:44 phf heh "1992 vintage italian shoe. the sole i head to replace out of hand carved wood, but leather is literally like nothing you can get anymore!!1"
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10:45 asciilifeform aaha exactly
10:45 shinohai Oh good morning mod6 .... gonna try the changes out later this afternoon, will report back
10:48 mod6 shinohai: ah, alright, i'll probably have a full patch for people to look at here later today.
10:49 mod6 experimental, ofc.
10:49 shinohai I don't expect drastically different results than from first pass, but never hurts to poke these things with a stick some.
10:49 BingoBoingo <phf> heh "1992 vintage italian shoe. the sole i head to replace out of hand carved wood, but leather is literally like nothing you can get anymore!!1" << Old leather always is something you can't get off the shelf
10:50 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i suspect that decent shoes are somehow illegal in usa. they are ~entirely unavailable in any shop i've ever walked into there.
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10:50 asciilifeform prolly banned, like decent milk ( see 'uht' thread )
10:52 BingoBoingo Closest thing I could find before leaving were workboots
10:55 asciilifeform in timisoara, 'boot valhalla', walk into ~any shop and for 1.5x of what 1 pair of typical chinese liquishit costs in shitland, you get italian boots , with actual leather, insulation , proper sole, etc
10:55 asciilifeform for coupla hundy you could prolly get a tailored set . ( asciilifeform did not stay longenuff to investigate )
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10:56 * BingoBoingo simply went to Rural King, got pair of Redwings off the shelf. Traded ~$200 and began ritual break in process
10:59 BingoBoingo Here the trend seems to be Nike plastic de China for the youth and imitation real shoes for the adults, with substantial amounts of flip flops mixed in
10:59 asciilifeform sounds like usa
10:59 BingoBoingo Well, the adult shoes contain leather
11:00 BingoBoingo Likely Industria Argentina sorta deal
11:00 * asciilifeform sometimes sees photos of africans, straw ebola huts in background, wearing 'nike', tshirts, etc. and wonders if typical ameritard viewer sees 'ooh hey they get Real Clothing, Like Us' rather than 'hmm why am i dressed like ebola african'
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11:01 phf actually texans make those cowboy boots, i've been gifted two pairs at different times, and they are incredibly comfortable. but of course they are not ideal on pavement, and it's also stylistically a bold move on the east coast
11:01 BingoBoingo AHA
11:02 asciilifeform these would've been ideal for the 100km of bucharest walk
11:03 asciilifeform they dunbelieve in sidewalks there ( repurposed as orcish parkinglot , as in many post-su lands ) and after coupla days of walking on rubble in 'civilized' shoes , feet resemble chinese bamboo punishment victim's
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11:04 BingoBoingo Ah, the uruguayan sidewalks are intentionally textured like rubble!
11:04 asciilifeform for massage, lel
11:05 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: boots that can take ~removable~ (check into baggage when going by airplane) iron plates would be spiffy imho
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11:06 BingoBoingo Eh, ablation is kinda what the sole is there for
11:06 mats http://blog.talosintelligence.com/2018/01/unpatched-blender-vulns.html perhaps relevant to eulora
11:16 phf asciilifeform: sigs updated
11:17 phf diana_coman: ch5 on btcbase
11:23 diana_coman thanks phf !
11:24 diana_coman mats I'll have a look although s.mg won't use latest vulnerabilities as it were
11:30 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769016 <- ahahaha, I walked those sidewalks for years and in high heels too; it's a skill! (leather shoes though, always, proper Romanian shoes)
11:30 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 16:03 asciilifeform: they dunbelieve in sidewalks there ( repurposed as orcish parkinglot , as in many post-su lands ) and after coupla days of walking on rubble in 'civilized' shoes , feet resemble chinese bamboo punishment victim's
11:31 phf s.mg is actually using pre-interface-changes blender from 20 years ago
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11:33 diana_coman phf, quite; Blender 2.66 for the record; the stopping point though was basically latest working with acceptable version of Python
11:40 diana_coman as per http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-11-28.log.html#t14:51:45 + adventures with exporting from it, we ended up freezing blender version at 2.66 and - as usual by now - hosting it too ( minigame.bz/eulora/source/blender-2.66.tar.gz )
11:40 lobbesbot Logged on 2016-11-28 14:51:45: <diana_coman> basically whatever blender version is the last to work on python 2.x
11:43 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768950 << can't load your own custom kernel eh? anyhow I'd need the barf to help you, picture of screen even. as for mounting dev in the chroot, you must "mount -obind /dev /path/to/build/dev"
11:43 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 14:41 danielpbarron: !~later tell trinque ok i finally got around to looking at this cuntoo thing. machine can't load the kernel. when i chroot to try to rebuild it, i can't even mount /dev points or df -h
11:43 trinque need to do this for sys and proc as well.
11:45 phf diana_coman: yeah, i remember the python 2/3 rants in logs here too. i take it s.mg at this point mails CDs of prefab player AND developer environments
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11:49 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764242 << do I understand correctly that there's nowhere to store the result, as there seems to be enough hw adders in an 'ice'?also, it seems that the same authors are trying to reverse some xilinx nao: https://symbiflow.github.io/
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11:49 a111 Logged on 2018-01-04 20:06 asciilifeform: in other 'news', it is apparently impossible to fit even ONE 4096-bit adder into an ice40-8k ( the largest in the series )
11:50 mircea_popescu diana_coman this time, it pinged. heck knows.
11:51 diana_coman mircea_popescu, at some point there will be time to get to the bottom of that too
11:52 mircea_popescu or someone actually picks up mp-wp already.
11:52 mircea_popescu it's been looking for a maintainer for what, 2 yrs.
11:52 shinohai Heh I can connect to Eulora again
11:52 diana_coman plenty of things for the pick up really
11:53 diana_coman shinohai, what was the trouble?
11:53 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768945 << "all x except not x.y" bejaysus. how long until you have it all up then ?
11:53 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 13:46 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-10#1768419 << All reg'd now the accounts are filing bank account papers. Datacenter rep did indeed disclose lack of care where wire transfers come from so long as paid
11:53 shinohai diana_coman: kept kicking me offline
11:53 diana_coman sounds like connection trouble
11:54 danielpbarron trinque, oh lol ur right sorry
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11:54 danielpbarron been a while since i did that
11:54 * danielpbarron hangs head in shame
11:57 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769036 << this is correct, it simply doesn't have enough LUTs to store even the 2 operands, not even speaking of result. however xilinx is a dead end : because it is 1) nonhomogeneous 2) they switch the internals regularly, specifically to prevent a reversing from being useful in the long term. see old xilinx threads in the logs for detail
11:57 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 16:49 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764242 << do I understand correctly that there's nowhere to store the result, as there seems to be enough hw adders in an 'ice'?also, it seems that the same authors are trying to reverse some xilinx nao: https://symbiflow.github.io/
11:58 apeloyee and you think internals of 'ice' won't be switched?
11:58 asciilifeform apeloyee: re 'nonhomogeneous' , see e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710128 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710139
11:58 a111 Logged on 2017-09-02 19:58 asciilifeform: large xilinx chips also have 'hard' periphs inside, e.g. multers, adders, shifters, various
11:58 a111 Logged on 2017-09-02 20:02 asciilifeform: re the archs -- lattice ice is analogous to children's toy 'lego' where you get 9,000 identical bricks; xilinx ( and altera, and the 'adult' lattice fpga on fancy dev boards ) are analogous to... i guess the 'erector' toy, where there are a certain number of fungible pieces, but also ~a~ motor, ~a~ heavy iron base, a quantity of gears, etc.
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11:59 asciilifeform apeloyee: the larger chips by lattice co are already xilinx-like
11:59 asciilifeform the smaller ones are 'sea of gates' as they are intended to be used for glue logic, and emphasize predictable path timing ( the analogous xilinx series is the 95xx , as used in FUCKGOATS )
12:00 apeloyee i'm speaking of reversed ones only
12:00 asciilifeform so yes, the only reason why anybody sells ice and 95xx -like 'sea of gates' at all, is that for 'glue' (simple boolean functions of signals, for e.g. bus decoding, addressing, simple i/o multiplexing) is that you can't actually do it reliably with the non-seaofgates devices
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12:01 asciilifeform they would have long ago phased out the sane (sea of gates) devices , otherwise.
12:01 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well acordding to Uruguay it's a business. How long until there's a bank account is a mystery. Moving discussions ahead with the datacenter with the understanding that if a local bank account isn ready in time, there will be some way to pay them.
12:01 apeloyee what's to stop Lattice from yanking the reversed ice and introducing similar-but-incompatible per the playbook?
12:01 asciilifeform it is sorta how like american hardware store would love to sell plastic pipe wrenches. but you can't actually work with those, so they don't.
12:02 mircea_popescu they sell plastic guns...
12:02 asciilifeform apeloyee: nothing per se. but the 'fiddled' chip is likely to be reversable with same methods, on account of being homogeneous
12:02 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo so what's the plan here, drop upon the dc with brown paper bag fulla cash ?
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12:03 asciilifeform apeloyee: they could in principle try intel-style fascism with built-in rsa sig verifier or the like. but afaik the only vendor to date to attempt any such thing, was xilinx, and it wasn't even in earnest
12:03 phf aaye, boss wantsa one of them servers, brought you eggheads some mulah
12:05 asciilifeform apeloyee: the most immediate risk is that 'ice' series simply goes out of print. like anything else.
12:06 apeloyee that's what I spoke about
12:06 asciilifeform the only cure for this is to fab own fpga.
12:07 apeloyee but you say everybody needs something ice-like?
12:07 asciilifeform it's the 1 product currently sold, that's worth buying.
12:07 asciilifeform even if you need three dozen of'em to fit , e.g., vga controller.
12:07 asciilifeform and it's the 1 fpga currently sold that's worth copying ( scaled-up, naturally )
12:08 apeloyee it's the 1 product currently sold, that's worth buying. << and the xilinx item in 'fuckgoats'?
12:08 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: That or "Hey pete, wanna send a wire for some BTC"
12:09 mircea_popescu whole point is to have your own stream.
12:09 asciilifeform apeloyee: fg is a very unusual device, in that you can actually put, e.g., terabyte of known input into it, and only you know what the half-GB that ought to come out, is, there is not physically room inside for a secret crib sheet of that size
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12:09 mircea_popescu "registered company, no bank accounts" ~= "rented house, no running water"
12:09 asciilifeform there are not many items, even conceptually, that can be audited this way
12:10 shinohai !~ticker --market all
12:10 asciilifeform it is also unusual in that it accepts no input from the computer
12:10 jhvh1 shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 13730.52, vol: 18642.79134567 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 13822.0, vol: 65812.8828485 | Volume-weighted last average: 13801.8066552
12:10 asciilifeform and thereby has no attack surface in the traditional sense
12:10 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: And thus my increasing annoyance with the locals. They aren't ustards, but their slow speed to anything is grating.
12:11 asciilifeform i still dislike having to use toolchain from hitler to compile the bitstream. and thereby the current fg is the last time i use a xilinx in a product.
12:11 mircea_popescu so far sounds a lot like classical scam, "sure, can do 90% of useful item BUT NO MORE in steady 10% increments you can pay for".
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12:12 mircea_popescu wtf did that accountant or w/e do, "oh, i can find you a house mr bb, it just won't have any walls..." ?
12:12 mircea_popescu shoulda said so from day 1.
12:12 apeloyee but strictly speaking, if you just want mod-exp you don't need "an adder". you need operations "add X", doble and "subtract modulus"
12:12 mircea_popescu "yes i can FIFTYQUOTESregistger a corpFIFTYQUOTES but it will not be a corp and hello"
12:12 apeloyee *double the result"
12:12 asciilifeform apeloyee: 'add X' needs an adder.
12:12 asciilifeform as does 'sub X'
12:12 BingoBoingo Apparently they waited until after the business registration went through Friday to apply for bank accounts.
12:12 mircea_popescu but today is thurs!
12:13 apeloyee it has adder. problem is storage, no?
12:13 BingoBoingo si
12:13 mircea_popescu what happened to "but i must warn you mr bb, "applying for bank accounts:" is a thing, bank doesn't open acct ON THE SPOT, takes 8 years"
12:13 mircea_popescu fucking soviets.
12:13 apeloyee can you use one 'ice' to generate a bitstream for another one?
12:14 asciilifeform apeloyee: adder is just a series of xor's. but yes you need shift registers to hold the operands, and one to hold the result ( which then can be shifted )
12:14 asciilifeform apeloyee: they have very slow-writing storage for the bitstream (nand flash, with ~10k cycle endurance) so definitely not practical
12:14 BingoBoingo Apparently takes weeks. Anecdote from datacenter folk suggests 2-3 months of bandaids not uncommon.
12:15 mircea_popescu why wasn't this in there dec 15th ? pshaw.
12:15 asciilifeform apeloyee: afaik nobody ever sold a 'sea of gates' fpga/cpld with sram bitstream storage.
12:15 asciilifeform ( if it existed -- yes, you could 'page it in' )
12:15 apeloyee the 'ice' is one such
12:15 asciilifeform nope, nandflash
12:15 asciilifeform unless there's a seekrit catalogue i dun have
12:16 asciilifeform or hm not so
12:16 asciilifeform the 8k takes external spi config
12:16 asciilifeform it does take nearly whole second tho, to load
12:17 apeloyee ugh
12:17 asciilifeform but in principle apeloyee is right, one could make a 'page swapped' tile of 'ice's.
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12:18 asciilifeform possibly even use it perversely to perform certain computations quickly.
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12:18 asciilifeform (i.e. you don't need a universal shift register, can make 'constant' value using a just-in-time-cooked bitstream loaded in for that particular occasion)
12:18 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769049 << nah lets get it going on your hardware too. idea is we get kernels in there for usable hardware.
12:18 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 16:54 danielpbarron: trinque, oh lol ur right sorry
12:19 trinque I'll be out for a while today, back in the evening
12:19 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768972 << no way, what, 800 wires ? on time tech it'd have been a foot thick that cable.
12:19 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 15:27 phf: hmm, they gave up on 1 key 1 wire long before though. those pdp keyboards, dec? was space cadet it?
12:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: do you know how many tracks in typical pc mobo ?
12:19 asciilifeform ( a lot more than 800 )
12:20 mircea_popescu you mean, wire as in kbd pcb or as in antenna ?
12:20 asciilifeform 'wire' dun have to mean, typically, physical wire with circular cross section
12:20 asciilifeform wire as in conductor.
12:20 * mircea_popescu gives up, minor point anyway.
12:20 phf well, it's 800 to the controller, not, like, straight to machine
12:20 asciilifeform and also yes
12:20 mircea_popescu phf seems your cable being unchanged the samne problem may even recur!
12:21 BingoBoingo The datacenter folks released these anecdotes yesterday. The extent of the sovietitude here beyond "Latinos burn 10 days on fireworks" is something I was not anticipating.
12:21 asciilifeform orig observation was re 'no reason why not 122 tracks inside kbd, going to a cpld'
12:21 * mircea_popescu 's money is on "packeted format!!!!" as solution to this lel
12:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i designed once ( but never built ) a kbd where each key sits on a 2wire bus, and has time slot
12:21 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo well so what do we do ? because so far this is starting to look like complete writeoff.
12:22 apeloyee egyptian mul doesn't need a barrel shifter
12:22 asciilifeform it'd work. and would also let you rearrange the keys
12:22 asciilifeform apeloyee: indeed it doesn't
12:23 asciilifeform apeloyee: karatsubaization doesn't need one either
12:23 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo eg, have you "applied" to every single bank in town, making it plain to them that UNLESS they get it done by next week they will probably lose out on the business AND that it is to your superior white man eye inconceivable as well as a shocking break from human community that they take so very long,. and shoulds really be very ashamed of self, much like waiter who takes a piss in your wine ?
12:26 asciilifeform apeloyee: i've thought about 'what is minimal circuit for rsa'. i.e. ideally would eat x,y,m , of b bitness, and shit forth x^y mod m after ~b^3 clock cycles.
12:26 asciilifeform apeloyee: could potentially build out of discretes.
12:28 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I'll press the accountant on the bank applying strategy, and approach banks on my own until the list is exhausted.
12:28 mircea_popescu good.
12:29 apeloyee karatsuba's saves area only, not time
12:29 asciilifeform apeloyee: eh what
12:29 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo whole idea is you reg your co with whatever inept fiatola site (bitstamp, whatever) and move into cash that way.
12:30 asciilifeform apeloyee: saves time. i.e. isn't o(n^3), elementarily
12:30 apeloyee not if you have a 4096b hw multer
12:30 apeloyee and no point in designing a hw multer implementing karastuba, unless saving on Si area
12:31 asciilifeform this is an open q
12:31 apeloyee hm yes, for really large multers it might be
12:32 apeloyee when wire delay is comparable to component delay
12:32 apeloyee 'what is minimal circuit for rsa' << probably ripple-carry adder + a few registers
12:32 apeloyee sloooow
12:33 apeloyee likely kochanski's multiplier is the next simplest thing
12:34 asciilifeform apeloyee: unusable for fixedspacetimeism
12:34 asciilifeform it has timesaving-heuristics that use the highbits
12:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768978 << well it'll make much less obvious resonances so that's a win :D
12:34 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 15:28 asciilifeform: phf: i even suspect that it is possible to improve the cornall design with... randomized scan. i suspect that the sequential scan, sets up resonances.
12:34 asciilifeform we went over kochanski here, in august
12:36 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768992 << model m more complex than 1960s trabant!
12:36 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 15:42 phf: my grandfather (and his generation) spent their leisure time working on cars (also billiard and preferance). i can't help but think that working on keyboards is a bit of a step down :o
12:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: almost definitionally, if yer rng is any good, it won't be pumping any resonance anywhere
12:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'f' not 'm'
12:36 asciilifeform ( visually similar, but mechanically very different beasts )
12:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform definitionally, if your rng is any good, it will type out shakespeare every so often.
12:36 mircea_popescu rng is not a resonance magic pill, just a resonance de-debugable-izers.
12:36 asciilifeform dead of asteroid first.
12:37 asciilifeform but yes it goes back to the eternal 'what is random' thread
12:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768995 << try buy yourself silk dress shirts, see.
12:38 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 15:44 phf: heh "1992 vintage italian shoe. the sole i head to replace out of hand carved wood, but leather is literally like nothing you can get anymore!!1"
12:38 asciilifeform point is not that resonance is physically impossible, but that enemy cannot win by ever betting on a particular one
12:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i thought point was "ghost keystroke".
12:38 asciilifeform side-thread of side-thread lol
12:41 shinohai "Confused Trump Tricked by Fox News Into Opposing His Own Surveillance Bill" <<< kek
12:53 ben_vulpes https://bitcoingarden.org/forum/index.php?topic=16213.0
12:55 asciilifeform 'Women coin will become the ultimate business coin for women. We all know that this altcoin market is mainly operated by men, just like the entire world. We want to stop this. From this moment on everyone should keep in mind that we women are as important as men. This is why Women coin project has been formed. ... We want to bring the female standard of importance under the attention with every WOMEN coin trade. Also we want to get w
12:55 asciilifeform eb services on-board to accept WOMEN COIN is one of their official payment methods.'
12:55 asciilifeform gold.
12:55 asciilifeform ^ complete with win .exe 'wallet' , a la yesterday's archaeological thread
12:56 mircea_popescu business coin for women ?
12:56 knubie lol
12:56 mircea_popescu in other lulz, there's a "bank for women" thing here, called "crystal"
12:56 mircea_popescu i find it apt it'd be the definitive stripper's name, but really now, a bank FOR WOMEN ?
12:56 asciilifeform what's the angle?
12:56 knubie lmao
12:57 shinohai bwahahaha asciilifeform
12:57 mircea_popescu woman is not a profession. bank "for agricultors" makes sense because4 they get leasing deals with the machinery producers.
12:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform angle ? what angle. these are simpleminded people, not up to angles yet. those are the WORDS.
12:57 shinohai Now we need "Pantsuit coin"
12:57 mircea_popescu dollar ?
12:57 shinohai lol
12:57 ben_vulpes while we're on the topic of american ersatzolade: https://www.recode.net/2018/1/9/16870894/ces-2018-pole-dancing-robots-giles-walker-strip-club-las-vegas
12:58 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes cuz teh women are too fat / lazy to do it anymoar amirite.
12:58 ben_vulpes you'd think but the poor girls dance just like they always did
12:58 mircea_popescu in other lifestyle & bed, bath -- zee germanz opened a deli here, finally smoked ribs and shit.
12:58 ben_vulpes brb screaming from upstairs
12:59 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2105&cpage=1#comment-18615 << in other ffaism.
12:59 ben_vulpes back, just a lamp
12:59 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769006 << yes but in cluj not in tm.
12:59 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 15:55 asciilifeform: for coupla hundy you could prolly get a tailored set . ( asciilifeform did not stay longenuff to investigate )
13:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's , what, a day of train away, neh
13:02 shinohai That's some 1984-level stripper shit there ben_vulpes
13:03 ben_vulpes can't dance well unless you've stared starvation in the eyes in the past three years apparently
13:10 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2105&cpage=1#comment-18616 << edited
13:10 asciilifeform apeloyee ^
13:12 asciilifeform and incidentally, all you want for padding is a n-bit-to-n-bit hash; and if rsa itself is strong, than simple modexp ( or , if you like, two, 1 the normal way, and then 1 of the output bits, reversed ) is a satisfactory hash for paddings.
13:18 asciilifeform ( in fact, if we had a decent prime-constructor, 'cut it in half and multiply the 2 large primes you get , 1 from each half' would be a decent hash for such use )
13:19 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=oaep !
13:19 mircea_popescu padding is the ~one item where we actually don't need a fix.
13:19 asciilifeform i dunlikeit
13:19 asciilifeform it's hashtronic
13:19 asciilifeform hashes -- suck.
13:19 mircea_popescu it's the one item proved to be strong.
13:19 asciilifeform nope.
13:19 asciilifeform as strong ~as the hash~
13:20 asciilifeform and no stronger.
13:20 mircea_popescu yes. the one item proved to be strong.
13:20 asciilifeform nope. no hash has ever been proven to be anything whatsoever.
13:20 asciilifeform they are exactly same item as symmciphers.
13:20 mircea_popescu "this compuer is proven correct" "only as correct as the inputs" "stfu"
13:20 asciilifeform an oaep (or similar scheme) ciphertron rests on 2 elephants : strength of rsa, and strength of the (voodoo) hash.
13:21 asciilifeform theoretically could make one that only stands on 1, rsa.
13:21 mircea_popescu the scheme ~itself~ is ~proven~ to be strong. which is way the fuck more than can be said of the "decent" or "satisfactory" in above.
13:21 asciilifeform nope. again, as strong as the hash. hash falls -- it falls.
13:22 mircea_popescu this is misery.
13:22 mircea_popescu !!key Covale`
13:22 deedbot Not registered.
13:22 asciilifeform whereas one ~could~ build one where rsa per se must fall, for it to fall.
13:22 asciilifeform ( hashes, observe, have lived and died, rsa -- even paint never chipped. )
13:22 mircea_popescu dja understand the difference between "proven strong" and "decent" "satisfactory" etc other offthecuffness ?
13:23 asciilifeform aha, and very well
13:23 mircea_popescu ok then.
13:23 asciilifeform they proof postulates the strength of the hash.
13:23 asciilifeform *the
13:23 mircea_popescu every proof will postulate something ; this is not a cogent objection.
13:23 mircea_popescu unless you have proof that no such thing as a hash can be made, it's more useful than "this seems obfuscaxy to me!"
13:23 asciilifeform it is if i can remove one of the unfounded postulates and still have working item.
13:24 mircea_popescu by all means.
13:25 asciilifeform that was all, re subj.
13:26 asciilifeform ( and it's an open q. )
13:26 mircea_popescu entirely true that if one builds a hash which can be provenly as strong as rsa, then thathash powered oaep would be the natural padding for rsa
13:26 asciilifeform aha!
13:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu gets it.
13:28 mircea_popescu and for the record : prime generation (as in trpng) is not THAT expensive these days.
13:28 asciilifeform and, will point out, is built into (adult) 'p'.
13:28 asciilifeform as a primitive.
13:28 asciilifeform so naturally invites the q of 'why not a trapdoor based on multiplication of primes'.
13:29 asciilifeform for what do we need the heathentronic liquishit-mix trapdoor algos.
13:29 mircea_popescu now this much is quote cogent.
13:29 asciilifeform and more , even :
13:29 asciilifeform the objection last time we had this thread ( iirc by mircea_popescu ) was the pain of doing this with large inputs
13:30 asciilifeform but you can in fact merkleize'em, and get 'sponge' construction
13:30 mircea_popescu word
13:30 asciilifeform while still using makeprime(bits(0..n/2))*makeprime(bits(n/2+1..n)) as 'hasher'.
13:30 asciilifeform aha.
13:30 mircea_popescu merlke sponge large prime hash would be interesting
13:31 asciilifeform and , beauty is, can be scaled up to fit cpu budget
13:31 asciilifeform ( larger primes, if more cycles available in particular application; smaller, with moar merkelization, if fewer )
13:31 asciilifeform so thereby you nao have the sponge.
13:32 asciilifeform nao only somebody gotta prove that it dun leak structure... ( or if it does -- just how much )
13:35 shinohai !!up Covale`
13:35 deedbot Covale` voiced for 30 minutes.
13:36 Covale` !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/WfPwq/?raw=true
13:36 deedbot F70A0DFC4CD596332D3155F55FE693A3DD8BBEAE registered as Covale`.
13:36 asciilifeform ^ this item is part of asciilifeform's larger thrust, to expunge every remaining vestige of the ( muchly nsa-pushed , for 60+ yrs nao ) 'rotorism' ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686308 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-29#1147450 , elsewhere ) from sane crypto.
13:36 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 23:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, ALL, without exception, blockcipher and streamcipher, published to date, are ~enigma
13:36 a111 Logged on 2015-05-29 03:48 asciilifeform: a great many ciphertrons sold by nato cocksucker nations (western europe) were actually electronicized versions of 'enigma'-style rotors
13:36 Covale` thanks shinohai
13:37 asciilifeform 'hey hey, ho ho,' rotorism 'has got to go'
13:37 shinohai np, if you need any help with registration feel free to message
13:37 mircea_popescu !!key Covale`
13:37 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/F70A0DFC4CD596332D3155F55FE693A3DD8BBEAE.asc
13:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform inb4 bruce kreibs "releases" a "new generation" etc blabla.
13:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: reminds me, asciilifeform's brother not long ago said to asciilifeform re ffaseries, 'think, how many chinese phd theses you've written'
13:41 mircea_popescu lel
13:41 mircea_popescu brother is right.
13:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: bonus lul: you can trivially turn 'primehash' (let's for nao call it..) into a symmcipher ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621207 ) .
13:43 a111 Logged on 2017-03-02 18:13 asciilifeform: they are sides of the same triangle.
13:43 mircea_popescu yes.
13:43 asciilifeform but this was probably already obvious.
13:44 apeloyee it has timesaving-heuristics that use the highbits << I thought it was to choose what to add? can't prove right now, though
13:45 asciilifeform apeloyee: kochanski's method ( at least as described on his www ) very definitely took variant times.
13:45 asciilifeform there may be ~something~ salvageable in it, but i was not able to see what exactly.
13:45 phf i like how who was it ptacek who "grabbed popcorn" at the mention of "all existing crypto suffers from...", but since them no comment.
13:46 asciilifeform phf: d00d is paid for simple job. he did the job, moved on to next item on conveyor
13:46 asciilifeform i dun expect he even made it to the bottom of ch1
13:47 phf fwiw i don't think he even made it to the end of the "crypto suffers from..." list
13:47 asciilifeform prollynot.
13:47 mircea_popescu recall when gmaxwell said "oh, i showed $item to "everyone in pr team" and the median time to break it was $minutes" and provided no further details ?
13:48 mircea_popescu it's hard to believe they even trhink at all, just type what's on the paper slip, move on.
13:48 mircea_popescu whole thing's based on the idea that no past, no future, never will have to answer for anything etc.
13:48 asciilifeform could, and for all i know this is already in place, replace ptacek et al with eliza.
13:48 mircea_popescu consequently taking something uttered by usg asset as words rather than "o look what kitten did with its own faeces!" is a little weird.
↖
13:49 asciilifeform ~none of their behaviour rises to the complexity of, whatever, cat, dog, rat. perl script.
13:49 mircea_popescu anyway, item in question struck me because exactly bock.
13:50 asciilifeform nah bock's flavour is more of a 'i did this in 2010 and no i won't show it but hey i did it in 2010 and ...'
13:50 mircea_popescu nah, recall original bockism on whichever social media site "this is not right because here's a statistical survey of an inexistent field"
13:51 mircea_popescu and i can't quite shake the impression that someone over at pantsuit hq actually imagines they "won" teh global warming lulz.
13:51 asciilifeform hm yea there was one of these wasntthere.
13:51 mircea_popescu first salvo.
13:51 apeloyee Meanwhile, one ardent quantum computerist, one John Preskill made a 'keynote speech' or whatnot https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.00862.pdf "Even with fault-tolerant quantum computing still a rather distant dream, we are now entering a pivotal new era in quantum technology. For this talk, I needed a name to describe this impending new era, so I made up a word: NISQ . This stands for Noisy Intermediate-Sc
13:52 apeloyee ale Quantum." Does anyone read it as desperate 'we now are entering an era of quantum computer which wouldn't be all that good even if it worked ("intermediate scale"), and it doesn't really ("noisy")' or my mircea_popescu simulator is broken?
13:52 asciilifeform hey, the 'we dun need to win, all we gotta do is print in nyt front page that we did' can carry on right up until the turks come over the city walls
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13:52 asciilifeform apeloyee: d00d wouldn't perchance happen to work for 'dwave' co. would he ?
13:53 mircea_popescu apeloyee o you have simulators too now ?! but yes, "we are now entering a littoral combat quantumship era, where the fiatola conduits are well in place and thoroughly divorced from results, so all you disgusting niggers listening in -- know that it's a "safe" field in the sense your "criminology" degrees are."
13:54 mircea_popescu ie, out and out "we got a line into the oil pipe, now we need mass to swing it!" joy call of the nigger.
13:54 asciilifeform qc i suspect will be to current-day usg as immortality pill was to chinese emperor qin shihuangdi
13:55 asciilifeform ( and not, perhaps strangely from n00b pov, e.g. fusion power )
13:55 apeloyee asciilifeform: if he does, then not Officially.
13:56 asciilifeform there's a whole pseudoindustry being born , of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769090 - ing for qc
13:56 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 17:11 mircea_popescu: so far sounds a lot like classical scam, "sure, can do 90% of useful item BUT NO MORE in steady 10% increments you can pay for".
13:56 asciilifeform ( folx who remember e.g. tokamak, will find the dynamic familiar )
13:56 mircea_popescu yup
13:57 asciilifeform 'Мазать уже можно, есть пока ещё нельзя' (tm)(r) !
13:57 mircea_popescu moreover, there's a whole population of ustards who are entirely invested in this as a lifetime choice. dood with "Degree" in nothing in particular firmly depends on the whole social security infrastructure in place being continued.
13:57 mircea_popescu how did that tlp quote go,
13:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1750765
13:58 a111 Logged on 2017-12-13 18:10 mircea_popescu: affiliate. "Hi, this is Bill from Cleveland, and I blame liberals." Son of a bitch, why didn't I think of that. The system not only pays poor people, it employs lots and lots of almost poor people. I'm not saying this is a good thing, or a desirable thing, I am simply stating a fact. Some of these are direct government jobs (e.g. staff down at the SSI office) and some are pretend private sector jobs. If you're a psychiatrist
14:08 mircea_popescu !!up joecool|mobile
14:08 deedbot joecool|mobile voiced for 30 minutes.
14:09 joecool thanks
14:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769012 << i'm sure.
14:09 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 16:00 asciilifeform sometimes sees photos of africans, straw ebola huts in background, wearing 'nike', tshirts, etc. and wonders if typical ameritard viewer sees 'ooh hey they get Real Clothing, Like Us' rather than 'hmm why am i dressed like ebola african'
14:10 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769019 << fuck removable, wtf. let them deal with it!!1
14:10 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 16:05 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: boots that can take ~removable~ (check into baggage when going by airplane) iron plates would be spiffy imho
14:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769028 << this is a fact, we froze an old version.
14:11 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 16:31 phf: s.mg is actually using pre-interface-changes blender from 20 years ago
14:11 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769035 << nah, the idea currently is that the current client gets trashed, hopefully this year, with the release of proper api for server interconnect ; and ppls write clients.
14:11 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 16:45 phf: diana_coman: yeah, i remember the python 2/3 rants in logs here too. i take it s.mg at this point mails CDs of prefab player AND developer environments
14:16 phf joke (?) re blender was that the original blender "consumer came to expect" was the rewrite of the NaN's idiosyncratic gui into slightly less idiosyncratic gui that current version of blender has. i think happened around 2.03
14:16 mircea_popescu sometging like that ya
14:19 knubie heh, something is definitely up with Kraken... not smelling good
14:20 phf is the new api still going to support real time? i take it you basically have two types of data communicated: spreadsheet mgmt and the sword swinging. right now bulk of complexity is from trying to cary spreadsheet data over sword swinging api (which i think is basically just a giant enum of msg types that can be packed into a udp)
14:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769057 << fwiw i had engines in my legos.
14:20 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 16:58 a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 20:02 asciilifeform: re the archs -- lattice ice is analogous to children's toy 'lego' where you get 9,000 identical bricks; xilinx ( and altera, and the 'adult' lattice fpga on fancy dev boards ) are analogous to... i guess the 'erector' toy, where there are a certain number of fungible pieces, but also ~a~ motor, ~a~ heavy iron base, a quantity of gears, etc.
14:21 mircea_popescu phf "real" time.
14:24 phf so no quake2 deathmatch mode
14:25 mircea_popescu heroes2
14:25 mircea_popescu i never cared for the twitch-style "competitions". besides, who wants can quake, no need for fantasy rpg, let him have his sf and choke on it.
14:26 mircea_popescu (because yes -- this is the fundamental truth of computers -- rts is scifi and tbs is fantasy and fuck anyone who genderconfuses!)
14:26 phf it's true, first rts is dune universe!
14:35 apeloyee would 'doon' be a good replacement for "dune" books? because I recently compared Bored with the Rings with the original, an' find the original insufferable. 'hobbit' at least doesn't pretend to be any more than a fairy-tale for children.
14:38 * asciilifeform liked the original, but ~as a kid~ and deliberately won't re-eat it, these things ~never survive re-opening in adulthood
14:39 mircea_popescu ~same here.
14:41 phf asciilifeform: i've started rereading lotr while i was sick, but i'm reading this 1992 russian edition.
14:41 asciilifeform lol that's what i got
14:41 asciilifeform the 1 missing vol3
14:41 * asciilifeform to this very day does not own the engl original
14:41 phf the hardcover with yellow dust juckets?
14:41 asciilifeform it !
14:42 phf ha!
14:42 asciilifeform tho i dun think i have the jacket anymoar
14:42 phf well, since you've not reread, i've noticed that they creatively munged the names.
14:43 asciilifeform http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/T/TOLKIN_Djon_Ronal%27d_Ruel/.Online/Hra188O1.jpg << what i got
14:43 phf all the names that are "common tongue", got russian translations
14:43 asciilifeform aaha
14:44 asciilifeform phf: i read the eng also as a kid, slightly laters, and did notice re the names
14:44 asciilifeform ( sometimes wished that i hadnt reread, almost 'broke' it for me)
14:45 phf so you have hobbit families with names like "hryuklov" "krotov" ""puziks" "bobrovniki" etc.
14:45 mircea_popescu ahahaha
14:46 phf but then (presumably since i've not read en) brandyskoks or some such is probably original english, and preserved
14:50 phf i suspect if not for hollywood and modern esl, en version wouldn't be as revolting. really goes for a lot of writing in english
14:52 * mircea_popescu recently saw "looper", a nine MILLIONTH!!! same retelling of here's whart we ustards managed to steal off the bible, whore (single mother!!!) and repentant sinner (junkie!!!) save baby jesus
14:53 mircea_popescu so yes, the impression that the whole place just spins the same ancient, dog eared retelling of the same stolen story and therefore that everyone there is braindamaged has A LOT to do with the attempted idnustrialization of culture.
14:53 mircea_popescu amusingly enough, soviet attempt to industrialize culture fared just as miserably.
14:54 asciilifeform lol that was a memorably terrible film
14:55 phf i think i saw it?
14:55 asciilifeform the one where some d00d's fingers vanish 1 by 1 as he -- back in time -- is dismembered
14:55 asciilifeform and other similars
14:56 mircea_popescu yes
14:57 asciilifeform it was almost a grand tour of every known type of hollywood braindamage..
14:57 mircea_popescu it was god awful, that dumb bitch is like "threatening vagrants" and going about that huge farm house as if mommy-usg is there to protect "her freedom of choice"
14:57 mircea_popescu notwithdstanding that the ACTUALY, LIVED!!! experience of whores just like her in a situation just as described is exactly http://trilema.com/2016/a-novel-once-called-disgrace/
14:58 mircea_popescu ie, "they'll use you for breeding grounds and you'll love it"
14:58 mircea_popescu whole lotta that nonsense, "i was SO SAVED!!! by this woman!!! HER LOVE!!!!" wtf, substitute symbol for "Sat around on my couch eating my chips", really ?
14:58 asciilifeform the 'phree choice!11' chix that'd look at home at a clitler fundraiser, transplanted somehow , undamaged, into postapocalyptic wastelands -- is almost mandatory trope these days
14:58 mircea_popescu i so totally need to be thusly saved, really, any lazy fat slobs wanna save me ?
14:58 mircea_popescu only one per, tho, so the whole queue gets some!
14:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform pretty fucking scandalous, but yes.
14:59 asciilifeform the long and exciting adventures of the proverbial snowball in hell.
15:04 phf yes, but what if they study martial arts
15:05 asciilifeform partial farts.
15:05 mircea_popescu no they don't even have to study anything, evil patriarchy will put magical blue pills in their tummy and then beat them into activation see, and then LUCY will become divine through downloading magics.
15:05 mircea_popescu fucktards.
15:05 mircea_popescu whole fucking pantsuit world cinema is entirely "man puts magic into woman belly and then activates it and then woman wins" wank.
15:06 mircea_popescu you'd think everyone is away fighting the aliens or some shit, and this is what happens in the meanwhile.
15:06 phf blame pogroms
15:06 mircea_popescu no, i blame the stupid fucking wankers involved.
15:07 mircea_popescu "why do any work, just wait around to be knocked up by god and then get a divorce settlement from god court" ~= "action movie" ffs.
15:09 mircea_popescu (and by the way -- martial arts ARE FOR MEN. it dun work for women. AT ALL!)\
15:10 phf well, it's pious tzadiks writing revenge porn on goyim, which somehow fell on fertile soil in this country.
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15:10 mircea_popescu "somehow".
15:10 phf the woman twist is just a modern twist on american lore
15:10 mircea_popescu quite.
15:12 phf which is a shame, because before superman (and for a while in parallel), american lore was adequate
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15:12 mircea_popescu which is what im saying, whole shebang is inept retelling of stolen storyhalves
15:12 mircea_popescu "oh, and then david SAVED THE DAY"
15:12 mircea_popescu "i dunno what he saved, but i knew plenty of cockrings named david"
15:13 phf "the name is DAHveed"
15:13 mircea_popescu and the fact that they're all stolen from new testament cliffnotes particularly irritates me.
15:14 phf how come?
15:15 mircea_popescu phf suppose you live in arhangelsk oblast, and suppose all they ever serve is some derivative of supermarket food. mostly, canned tomatoes.
15:16 mircea_popescu "oh, great day today, we found walmart surplus cans, rather than the usual polish crap"
15:16 mircea_popescu just go fucking hunt already, srsly now
15:16 mircea_popescu "what, you mean walk out of town ?" "WHAT FUCKING TOWN!" "but... but... it could be dangerous." "Bitch..." "think of the children!!!"
15:17 mircea_popescu canned fucking tomatoes are not even worth eating in the first place.
15:20 phf yes, but nobody's produced illustrated version of bible where all the womens have large, barely covered tits
15:20 mircea_popescu if onyl.
15:21 mircea_popescu the new trend is recycled 1990s fashion models. except a) fucking little boys is no longer fashionablr and b) what was acceptable in 1995 of 16yo "women" because 90s and gayness is not acceptable of the same women aged 40 today.
15:21 shinohai Could this be a project for us danielpbarron ?
~ 27 minutes ~
15:49 ben_vulpes btcvixen back for more?
~ 44 minutes ~
16:33 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769401 << Somewhat relatedly, this is why I've always preferred the "Batman" over other american superhero lore, at least on premise alone. Roughly the only "realistic" one of the bunch. No magic flies ingested, just a dude who leverages his large pool of financial -resources- and goes out and does vigilante shit with it.
16:33 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 20:12 phf: which is a shame, because before superman (and for a while in parallel), american lore was adequate
~ 19 minutes ~
16:52 mircea_popescu lobbes except for the part where the way these "resources" work in his case is exactlyu contrary to the way they work in every other case.
↖
17:06 lobbes Oya. Hence the "premise alone". Falls apart rapidly beyond that, but I appreciate at least the attempt at "jesus/aliens ain't coming to save you; save your fucking self. Get over and embrace your fears, etc"
17:07 mircea_popescu i guess.
17:08 mircea_popescu i always thought it's just "get the preppy demo" attempt of the pulp to expand.
17:08 mircea_popescu !#s "ready with a gameplan"
17:08 a111 1 result for "\"ready with a gameplan\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22ready%20with%20a%20gameplan%22
17:09 mircea_popescu !!up state_bits
17:09 deedbot state_bits voiced for 30 minutes.
17:09 lobbes That is a point
17:11 state_bits Hello, been lurking trilema for a little bit. Figured I'd join the channel and learn more about tmsr and bitcoin
17:11 mircea_popescu cool.
17:11 lobbes state_bits you read teh logs? If not, you should!
17:12 state_bits Yeah I'm trying to keep up with it as much as possible
17:12 state_bits Lots of interesting conversation
17:13 phf a scarlet pimpernel, a society man doing valiant daringdo by night
17:13 mircea_popescu lmao
17:13 shinohai phf is back in top form.
17:13 mircea_popescu have you been taking snark classes along the sanskrit phf ?
17:13 lobbes Lol
17:14 state_bits More or less
17:14 lobbes That fever must've given him nuclearoactive super-snark
17:14 BingoBoingo * mircea_popescu recently saw "looper", a nine MILLIONTH!!! same retelling of here's whart we ustards managed to steal off the bible, whore (single mother!!!) and repentant sinner (junkie!!!) save baby jesus << That's half of US film between 2001 and 2015
17:14 shinohai Now he has superpowers, no spiderbite required
17:15 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo sad fax.
17:17 BingoBoingo It's this thing where the children imagine they've transcended mommy and daddy's church only to plagiarize it
17:18 mircea_popescu myeah
~ 27 minutes ~
17:45 asciilifeform oh hah notbad name , state_bits
17:46 asciilifeform meanwhile, in drepperland, https://www.halfdog.net/Security/2017/LibcRealpathBufferUnderflow
17:51 asciilifeform !~later tell diana_coman http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2071&cpage=1#comment-18618
17:51 asciilifeform um
17:51 asciilifeform ...
17:51 asciilifeform bot dead ?
17:51 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
17:52 shinohai ghehehe
17:52 shinohai !~weather
17:52 jhvh1 stormy with a chance of packeting
17:53 asciilifeform re earlier, 'The vulnerability described here is caused by Linux kernel behaviour change in the syscall API (returning relative pathnames in getcwd()) and non-defensive function implementation in libc (failing to process that pathname correctly). Other libraries are very likely to be affected as well. On affected systems this vulnerability can be used to gain root privileges via SUID binaries.'
18:05 shinohai http://archive.is/xTrVe <<< "Bitcoin Conference Stops Accepting Bitcoin For Tickets, Blames ‘Network Congestion’ "
18:07 asciilifeform '“Due to network congestion and manual processing, we have closed ticket payments using cryptocurrencies — Hopefully, next year there will be more unity in the community about scaling and global adoption becomes a reality.' << lol, theywontfuckingyield(tm)(r)
↖
18:09 trinque what congestion; pay more than what half the mempool wants to pay, what?
18:09 trinque and this as a crude option
18:10 asciilifeform trinque: remember that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769299 .
18:10 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 18:48 mircea_popescu: consequently taking something uttered by usg asset as words rather than "o look what kitten did with its own faeces!" is a little weird.
18:11 trinque too true.
18:11 shinohai https://cointelegraph.com/news/encryption-becoming-public-safety-issue-fbi <<< from same shitrag
18:12 shinohai sorry http://archive.is/8qGAD
18:12 asciilifeform lemme guess, another 'ohnoez, tor worx toowell!!111' piece
18:13 ben_vulpes ipnohej but ~
18:13 ben_vulpes serious wordsalading: "The need to protect sensitive information being sent during war times can be attributed to the development of various encryption technologies, which are now widely available to the general public."
18:14 asciilifeform pinoyism, wat
18:14 asciilifeform they dun speak the king's englisch, neh.
18:14 ben_vulpes > durban, south africa
18:17 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-11#1500956 << oblig za whizzdom
18:17 a111 Logged on 2016-07-11 12:27 mircea_popescu: "If you are white, no positive, active role is left to you. Either you accommodate yourself to the unreasonable, or you play out your life in some futile back alley. You are doomed to this by the disgraceful history of your kind. Maybe it's fair, maybe it's not, but it is the way things are." << from another schmuck with a nobel prize.
18:18 asciilifeform ( this plus mircea_popescu's za buggery series , is all i think of when i think of modern-day za )
18:19 * trinque fully expects to live to hear the explanation for this cuckery reduced to "they sat down too much, oh and plastic"
↖
18:19 phf za?
18:19 shinohai Zimbabwe
18:19 phf ah
18:20 asciilifeform nope
18:20 shinohai oh
18:20 asciilifeform zuid-afrika
18:20 asciilifeform ( not zair either ! )
18:21 shinohai All African shitholes blend together to me
18:21 asciilifeform learn to tell the small gut, from the large, from the rectum..
18:28 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769420 << aha, 'batman' is exactly a picture of the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-11#1048383 ameritard-fantasy
18:28 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 21:52 mircea_popescu: lobbes except for the part where the way these "resources" work in his case is exactlyu contrary to the way they work in every other case.
18:28 a111 Logged on 2015-03-11 03:53 asciilifeform: my mind is still reeling that anyone, anywhere, might have swallowed the '3000 sq. ft for two dozen people', 'grow room' the size of bedroom, idiot hollywood 'motorcycle garage' and 'gun vault', etc.
18:33 trinque also in batman, "my parents are dead!!11!", also shows up a lot in disney garbage. interesting how art does its thing whether they producing meant to or not.
↖
18:33 trinque of course nobody has any ancestors here.
18:33 trinque any personal exceptions I can offer were fresh off the boat.
18:36 asciilifeform dunno that this one'd make it to the top of the raging idiocies list; blood feud is lowest common denominator for revenge-plot
~ 45 minutes ~
19:22 shinohai http://archive.is/EKwAf <<< LOL " Through their Change.org petition, they want to make BCH the default trading market on Coinbase"
~ 17 minutes ~
19:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769081 << are you basically saying that there's a maximum size of the black box which permits it to remain black to abritrary shaking ?
↖
19:39 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 17:09 asciilifeform: apeloyee: fg is a very unusual device, in that you can actually put, e.g., terabyte of known input into it, and only you know what the half-GB that ought to come out, is, there is not physically room inside for a secret crib sheet of that size
19:41 knubie goodnight guys.. =)
19:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769118 << now this is interesting ; and yes quite a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769119 / http://trilema.com/2017/resplenduminous/#selection-571.975-571.1108 item at that.
19:42 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 17:17 asciilifeform: but in principle apeloyee is right, one could make a 'page swapped' tile of 'ice's.
19:42 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 17:18 asciilifeform: possibly even use it perversely to perform certain computations quickly.
19:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769458 << i find these lulshits, "alien conference" held by the la comicon whores in the la comicon hangars as a very useful sugar trap. rms -- opted to go to nefario's lulference, is now fucked.
19:56 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 23:07 asciilifeform: '“Due to network congestion and manual processing, we have closed ticket payments using cryptocurrencies — Hopefully, next year there will be more unity in the community about scaling and global adoption becomes a reality.' << lol, theywontfuckingyield(tm)(r)
19:57 * mircea_popescu welcomes further clueless derps to step on the rake, by all means.
20:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769475 << hey, the boers tried, but ultimately couldn't get the kids interested in anything other than fucking around with period equiv of iphone, gave up, went away.
20:01 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 23:19 trinque fully expects to live to hear the explanation for this cuckery reduced to "they sat down too much, oh and plastic"
20:05 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769488 << this is very much a function as well as result of http://trilema.com/2018/ridoinculous-taboos/ : "having never fucked toghether, my parents are culturally dead to me."
20:05 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 23:33 trinque: also in batman, "my parents are dead!!11!", also shows up a lot in disney garbage. interesting how art does its thing whether they producing meant to or not.
20:05 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-12#1769493 << very basic specificity-of-diddling lemma. i.e. if i put today's trilema through it, it isn't as if it knows in advance that it ain't an analogue-rng-board plugged in, and what to shit out in response to a trilema that ain't yet been written
20:05 a111 Logged on 2018-01-12 00:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769081 << are you basically saying that there's a maximum size of the black box which permits it to remain black to abritrary shaking ?
20:06 mircea_popescu but if it shat out sha(input + salt) you wouldn't know.
20:06 asciilifeform why ?
20:06 mircea_popescu shall we do this experiment ?
20:06 asciilifeform i know exactly what's expected to come out for a given input
20:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the yoke test consists of precisely this experiment
20:06 asciilifeform i invite mircea_popescu to do it with 2 of his fg
20:07 mircea_popescu alright, i will now proceed to "rng" your lines. starting with above : 21ec922676d4145fbcbc4e1d05436e31ffc45b0b6b30c38f3397840a2111282640ab321b906a9d911af757a3a6b550e8fc9aaffc9089a1ca881d980f60617c9b
20:07 asciilifeform you gotta feed it in at the requisite clock.
20:07 * asciilifeform doesn't currently have the rig for this set up on desk
20:08 mircea_popescu 5e27bfa2124fc47579899d8cc25c46c01ddb4c7c9a67387a2d6167c4576e11e07b692aa8045c01ab4ee635cd37fb82cf1dd1e84d4579265ff0c0a4236a9a8025
20:08 mircea_popescu 32b05e6f90abf11865f57021a91e335d4593d2983d52daa4d1c0a6d5ae4acd491628cbc71a52187efd48427315dd2b70cf645ac126ae78127aa31aec6619cdb2
20:08 asciilifeform the standard yoke test is done against a known-good unit, rather than like this. ( why, is described in the log from late 2016 )
20:08 mircea_popescu 58acc2f7a255c650c156d9fbc20248a7814a2458ce2da98c115408d5497cd78d6d57759a37c2705762bf6ee03f7af8ae3a187c2f4d3715e3abd30ffe66837656
20:09 mircea_popescu 71354e3ac7ae3a1529870fc90e287f7f67d75dee11cf90827fe93a94e4c2cc2fb5bcf81dcf0a650b7491d1de9b7b3b4f9453a06380179fe3d437717b93092b24
20:09 mircea_popescu (sha512 line+"hurr", should be enough for everyone).
↖
20:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you would have to feed'em in pairwise ( or bit-interleaved ), as the thing has two 'mouths'. but otherwise yes, you feed'em in at particular clock, and oughta expect particular output.
20:11 mircea_popescu i'm just going by what you said ; yes it's unrelated to what actually happens, but that's your fault!
20:11 asciilifeform there is nuffin unreasonable about it, i just dun have the arse-mouth hoses set up atm.
20:12 asciilifeform it's what that 4th pin on fg, is for.
20:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769081 << that's nonsense.
20:12 a111 Logged on 2018-01-11 17:09 asciilifeform: apeloyee: fg is a very unusual device, in that you can actually put, e.g., terabyte of known input into it, and only you know what the half-GB that ought to come out, is, there is not physically room inside for a secret crib sheet of that size
20:13 asciilifeform ok i'll bite, where does it store the correct-output corresponding to, e.g., tomorrow's #t log
20:13 mircea_popescu in here : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-12#1769522
20:13 a111 Logged on 2018-01-12 01:09 mircea_popescu: (sha512 line+"hurr", should be enough for everyone).
20:13 mircea_popescu stored a good few tb in those bytes.
20:14 asciilifeform that ain't the output of the fg.v state machine tho.
20:14 mircea_popescu no, it's a different machine.
20:14 asciilifeform right. and if that's what you get out of the hose, you know that you've been slipped a fg that sha512('hurr'+sha512('hurr'....
20:15 mircea_popescu ...
20:16 asciilifeform sometimes i wonder if mircea_popescu ever actually read the instruction.
20:16 asciilifeform ( and with rum, or without )
20:20 asciilifeform ( folx who ~did~ read it , know that it is possible to determine that a particular fg evaluates the same function on the input, for a particular string pair S1, S2 of bits, fed simultaneously into I1a, I2a, I1b, I2b, of FG a and b respectively; by syncing the oscillators , by connecting the 4th pins of a and b together.
20:21 asciilifeform but if you to compute the particular output expected for S1, S2 in advance, you gotta specify the clock freq, and run fg.v in e.g. 'verilator' . and it takes a while. )
20:21 asciilifeform *want to
20:21 asciilifeform *particular pair of fg evaluates...
20:24 mircea_popescu let's just say that this "need at least 1 bit of blackbox per tb of arbitrary input" view is, sadly, not how it works.
20:25 asciilifeform i'ma have to make a 2nd test jig to give to mircea_popescu for his bday or sumthing, apparently.
20:25 asciilifeform (originally expected that folx would do this with own hands, lol)
20:26 asciilifeform item's as close as asciilifeform knows how to make, to 'testable with bare hands', but not closer.
20:29 asciilifeform ( $subj is figure 2 of https://archive.is/CGQkR . )
20:31 asciilifeform incidentally the 'pull out rng 'a', then 'b', then 'both', then...' test is a low-tech preventer of 'enemy intercepts parcel and reflashes the cpld to shit marsaglia prng'.
20:32 asciilifeform but at this point almost certainly repeating ancient thread.
20:33 asciilifeform ( exercise for advanced reader : write a substitute evil_fg.v that fools a user who limits himself to the above test. )
20:35 asciilifeform and hah, i think i finally see what mircea_popescu's objection was. no, thing dun have to physically store every byte of 'evil' output. elementarily a sabotaged fg will behave as prng.
20:35 * asciilifeform thought this was clear from context, apparently this is a sin
20:37 danielpbarron https://youtu.be/ExAydddhsIk << for you animaniacs fans
20:38 shinohai rofl danielpbarron
20:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform omfg stop spewing, jesus christ. you said A STUPID THING. i ~asked~ you whether you mean the stupid thing. you CONFIRMED. i showed you why the thing you said is the stupid thing. you're now on the 25th line of "oh no really, unrelated item". never you fucking mind fgs and test righs and whatnot. the original proposition, as stated, was broken.
20:47 mircea_popescu there's no such wonder in nature as the fabled "no room inside to blackbox". if only there were, yes. but there isn't.
20:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha! finally, i guess i shoulda read all them lines. so then!
20:49 * asciilifeform just hung up a 4 square metre corkboard, interesting how room seems now quieter
20:50 asciilifeform didn't think it would make a palpable diff ( and it is not why i have it ) but still lulzy
20:50 * mircea_popescu just ate his pot of beans. shall i recount how it came to be ? if anyone's cookingcurious...
20:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform are your walls concrete ?
20:51 asciilifeform nope, cardboard
20:51 mircea_popescu hm.
20:51 mircea_popescu it's just about inconceivable how much concrete vibrates.
20:51 asciilifeform here in cardboardland can only dream of concrete.
20:51 asciilifeform but yes rigid objects vibrate
20:52 mircea_popescu the vinyl siding things, i've never measured. but concrete is basically a sponge of any energy -> low freq vibration.
20:52 mircea_popescu if you're sensitive to it, wouldn't surprise me if a cork shadowing you would be perceivable.
20:54 asciilifeform lolyea if i lived in a concrete room i might end up with 4 corkboards, not 1
20:56 mircea_popescu or rugs.
20:56 * asciilifeform draws the orcline at rugs!111
20:56 mircea_popescu ro cannonical is "rapirea din serai", ie, kidnapping sabine scene
20:56 asciilifeform i think i saw it !
20:56 asciilifeform in that adhoc museum thing
20:56 mircea_popescu aha. i expect.
20:56 asciilifeform 'communist konsoomer'
20:57 mircea_popescu aaand in ancient cazallas, http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2232820&p=22&#r432
20:58 mircea_popescu "This is obviously just my opinion but if your buying anything now your literally throwing money down the drain. It doesnt matter how high the value might get its more of how low will it get and everything is clearly headed down." << 2014 aussie wisdom re btc.
20:58 mircea_popescu THE COMMON PEOPLE!
21:00 * asciilifeform turns head and looks at the literal wall of ffa
21:00 asciilifeform prolly i'ma have the thing printed as a poster, in the end, for aficionados.
21:00 mircea_popescu not a bad idea!
21:00 asciilifeform anyone recall linus's orig. poster ?
21:00 mircea_popescu yep.
21:00 asciilifeform i once worked in a salt mine where a d00d had it in his cell, the way other prisoners have pr0n
21:01 mircea_popescu i can believe.
21:01 shinohai http://archive.is/PAeyd <<< tl;dr "Oh shit, mircea_popescu was right"
21:01 mircea_popescu aww!
21:02 asciilifeform shinohai: lol, without of course any such mention in'ere
21:02 mircea_popescu "active in the cryptocurrency space", what happens when you're not part of bitcoin but like rubber chicken.
21:02 asciilifeform and in fact thing reads like the usual 'it WASN'T ME! it was THESE sc4mz0rs overTHERE' rubbish
21:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform fwiw, the pantsuit attempt to "counter fake news" by making five trillion of these worthless medium shits is quite amusing.
21:03 shinohai Precisely like that
21:03 mircea_popescu they really dun get how anything works, do they.\
21:03 asciilifeform they ~all read exactly ~same
21:03 mircea_popescu aha.
21:03 asciilifeform but then again i'm not an expert entomologist
21:03 mircea_popescu but "different" because "different domain" see.
21:04 shinohai Yet still can't conceive that it is game over for altcorn
21:07 asciilifeform this one saved the apparently mandatory scalingism claptrap for the last few para.
21:07 asciilifeform which i suppose is different from 2016 pinoy style guide.
21:08 mircea_popescu improvements! reform! PROGRESS!
21:09 phf lucy was lulzy, about 10-15 minutes worth watching and then it goes completely off rails, and like some kind of psychedelic train keeps rolling through landscape out and away.
21:09 mircea_popescu phf exactly.
21:10 mircea_popescu the early part, up until the passports wank, could have worked as part of a different film. woman can act, if only she weren't caught in the pantsuitwank she could have had a career.
21:12 phf right, it's johansson opposite of choi min-sik
21:12 mircea_popescu who the fuck washes blood off hands with perrier water poured out of a bottle...
21:13 mircea_popescu but anyway, clueless audience may enjoy.
21:13 asciilifeform did mircea_popescu ever review that other recent 'herd understands quite well what its future looks like' amerifilm
21:13 mircea_popescu has a certain purely-cinematic surrealism to it, like ye olde stories of orcs in sweden burning the parquet for cooking fuel.
21:13 shinohai I only watched the movie for dat ass
21:13 asciilifeform the one with 'rich folx live in space station nao'
↖
21:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform possibly not ?
21:14 asciilifeform damnit what was it called
21:14 danielpbarron elysium or something
21:14 phf yeah, i thought that was lulzy, but at least it doesn't ~only~ have a cheap explanation
21:14 asciilifeform aha!
21:14 asciilifeform it
21:14 mircea_popescu nope.
21:14 mircea_popescu honestly i'd much rather see good films.
21:14 asciilifeform similarly trashy-with-hints-of-ohshit
21:14 mircea_popescu rather than poor and sickly...
21:14 asciilifeform i dun think anyone's making 'good'
21:15 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/a-better-man-than-i << very fucking good.
21:15 mircea_popescu so good, in fact, it seriously threatens my ideas of "best", which... i'm old, i've seen everything, i had given up hope.
21:15 asciilifeform oh hah 2013
21:15 asciilifeform neato.
21:15 phf i have a backlog of excellent movies, but i've quarantineed myself, so instead of regular movie knights figured i'll see whatever trash
21:16 mircea_popescu knights ?!
21:16 asciilifeform lel singleeventfault!11
21:16 mircea_popescu he seriously is going around cursing the insufkfkichientkths kkonsonathsts of ttttthis llang isnt he
21:17 asciilifeform ze knights who say kneee!11
21:17 mircea_popescu we're the nights of the round table, our beets are formidable!
21:17 * asciilifeform for many years pronounced the 'k' in 'knack', a favourite eng word
21:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i also pronounce various such. why the fuck not, "it's there" right ?
21:19 phf i got nothing, though i blame lucy. if nothing else the movie clears your head out of any kind of thoughts
21:19 mircea_popescu twas a good fun!
~ 17 minutes ~
21:37 shinohai http://archive.is/ym85Q <<< LOL "Mining contract" users rekt
~ 1 hours 53 minutes ~
23:30 mod6 hai
23:32 asciilifeform ohai mod6
23:32 mod6 So I have an experimental patch here that applies right on top of release version 99994 of my vtron. ONLY use this in a testing capacity - the contents of the patch are subject to change at any time.
23:33 mod6 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GwImt/?raw=true
23:33 asciilifeform oh hey neato
23:33 * asciilifeform puts on conveyor.
23:34 mod6 thanks, let me know if questions/comments/etc.
23:35 mod6 oh, I should maybe also say, one thing that was added as more of a debugging feature was the 'press-path' or 'pp' command. Which will dump out the exact press path to be used from a given head.
23:36 * asciilifeform bbl
23:36 mod6 This may be removed before release. Flow still works as it previously did, just is no longer used in press.
23:36 mircea_popescu like a debugging feature basically.
23:37 mod6 yah.
23:40 mod6 correction: flow is not used to ~feed~ press operation. still used to ensure that the HEAD is within the flow set.
23:40 mod6 this one line
23:40 mod6 death("HEAD: $press[1] not found in flow\n") if !grep /^$press[1]$/, @flow;
23:49 mod6 Going back to the issue exposed by the eucrypt mpi_fix_copy_incr vpatch, you can see now that the press path is calculated by including all of the given HEAD's antecedents recursively.
23:49 mod6 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vGNwD/?raw=true
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