Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-12-01 | 2017-12-03 → ↓
00:05 phf “MacOS Update Accidentally Undoes Apple's “root” Bug Patch (wired.com)”
00:07 ben_vulpes best part is that it only undoes the patch, doesn't re-break macs with root passwords manually set.
00:10 ben_vulpes and in other hn headlines: "five ways to fix statistics" (nature.com) huh fascinating! i hadn't realized that /statistics/ was broken, i was laboring under the impression that it was the /heads/ that were broken.
~ 21 minutes ~
00:31 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
00:31 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10719.65, vol: 16844.80278042 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10676.0, vol: 86283.87155316 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10760.0, vol: 4619.59952465 | Volume-weighted last average: 10686.4254292
~ 2 hours 24 minutes ~
02:56 deedbot http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/02/the-boingo-isp-tbi-november-2017-statement/ << Bingo Blog - The Boingo ISP (TBI) November 2017 Statement
02:57 BingoBoingo ^ Bring the comments and beatings
03:00 BingoBoingo In other news it turns out "language exchange" websites of miniscule size feature better user engagement and higher user activity than Okcupid or the other IAC swaps
~ 2 hours 40 minutes ~
05:40 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes statistics can produce toxic facts. it is broken like bitcoin, needs "payment protocol"
05:41 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo everything that's not run by usg runs better than anything that's run by usg. you've got a better chance to manage an airplane bombing strike by talking to some obscure black bloc than the dod.
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~
06:43 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/integration-is-bad-for-bitcoin/ << Trilema - Integration is bad for Bitcoin.
~ 1 hours 30 minutes ~
08:14 asciilifeform meanwhile, in deaths, http://m.linuxjournal.com/content/linux-journal-ceases-publication
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
09:19 * ben_vulpes bbl in a few days
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~
10:29 asciilifeform meanwhile, in alert readers, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18378
10:35 asciilifeform but meanwhile in world of entomology, https://i.imgur.com/SJMeCBU.jpg
10:40 asciilifeform meanwhile, trotskyite and buharinite wreckers on trial, https://archive.is/Hc6QT >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/kPHNg/?raw=true >> 'A former U.S. National Security Agency employee pleaded guilty on Friday to illegally taking classified information outside the spy agency that an intelligence official said was later stolen from his home computer by Russian hackers' etc
10:42 asciilifeform ^ d00d 'pleabargained'
10:44 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/o5rrg/?raw=true << ocr of indictment etc.
10:44 mircea_popescu how many whiles!
10:44 asciilifeform many!1
10:45 asciilifeform and meanwhilemeanwhile, another trotskyitewrecker, flynn, also pleabargained
10:45 asciilifeform !#s flynn
10:45 a111 27 results for "flynn", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=flynn
10:46 mircea_popescu awww
10:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform by now ~90% or so of us "law enforcement" consists of "asset forfeiture". totally not bankrupt empire.
10:52 asciilifeform as i understand it is a traditional punishment in incastans. ye olde su had it.
10:52 asciilifeform '...с конфискацией имущества' was the verdict formulation.
10:53 mircea_popescu yes but by now it is counteradvisable to work for eg nsa if you're not poor from a purely wealth management perspective.
10:53 asciilifeform what sort of 'asset' can a civil servant have, even
10:54 asciilifeform ( as i understand quite uncommon for them to actually own house or land etc. tho this was an older d00d, possibly -- owned something )
10:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "linux journal" advertises "puppet" and some "in their words" about "becoming a cloud native organisation".
10:54 mircea_popescu better this way.
10:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lived as zombie for some years, aha
10:55 mircea_popescu but let's see #linuxjournal
10:56 mircea_popescu * Topic for #linuxjournal is: Welcome to the Social Channel for Linux Journal | www.linuxjournal.com | Ops (@) are LJ Staff | Harmful commands *must* have a disclaimer or you will be banned permanently. | Hateful/prejudicial language/slurs = Kickban | http://pastebin.com/ | https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linux-journal-ceases-publication
10:56 asciilifeform ahahahahahahahaha
10:57 asciilifeform let the cement mixer, tip.
10:58 mircea_popescu to quote from myself, "just wanted to let you folks know it's great fucking news your sad zombie finally croaked.
10:58 mircea_popescu let it be clear for everyone that pushing "cloud" and pushing "Hateful/prejudicial language/slurs = Kickban" and generally pushing the ustardian aggenda = death.
10:58 mircea_popescu now go be ashamed of yourselves."
11:02 asciilifeform re the vietnamese (lol!) nsa d00d, oblig. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-30#1744668 .
11:02 a111 Logged on 2017-11-30 16:00 asciilifeform: reminds of : ''I was such a pure and terrifying Aryan that they even put me in a special detachment. Its mission was to find out how the Jews always knew what the S.S. was going to do next There was a leak somewhere, and we were out to stop it' He looked bitter and affronted, remembering it, even though he had been that leak. 'Was the detachment successful in its mission?' I said. 'I'm happy to say,' said Arpad, 'that fourteen S.S. m
11:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think your response to apeloyee is correct actually, when you call with the same item you're fucking yourself. BUT!
11:02 asciilifeform somebody oughta get order-of-lenin for these caught wreckerz.
11:02 mircea_popescu i can't conceive how this can occur. how can it occur ?
11:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my current understanding is that , having banned pointers, it can only occur with an explicit call foo(X, X) , visible to naked eye hamfistmistake in src.
11:04 asciilifeform if pointers were permitted -- it could occur in a foo(A, B) when A turns out to point to same thing as B
11:04 mircea_popescu but, it wouldn't happen if foo(4,4) nor when foo(x,y) where the VALUES of x=y=4. it'd strictly happen when foo(x,x) ie, same variable_name
11:06 asciilifeform normally you would have to call it like foo(X.all, Y.all) .
11:06 asciilifeform (if X and Y were pointers )
11:06 mircea_popescu he has a good nose sniffing it out, but i don't believe your sicilian's "if thumbs hurt, cut arm at elbow to be sure" approach is warranted. next patch put a warning in the comments an' let 'em be.
11:07 asciilifeform but. but i can think of one scenario where they are not pointers, explicitly, but can still have'em point to same place. (though i also banned it!) --- if there were an allocator pool that somehow put X and Y, conventional nonpointerolade items, in the same exact place in memory.
11:07 asciilifeform but observe, i banned heaps.
11:07 mircea_popescu right.
11:07 asciilifeform (that elbow -- cut!1)
11:07 mircea_popescu also should be a comment there, after the pragma "if you unban these careful about wswap)
11:08 mircea_popescu nah, no heap is more like ombelicum cut.
11:08 asciilifeform iirc i did note that i found that fz_swap is actually used nowhere .
11:08 asciilifeform fz_mux however is fundamental ~everywhere.
11:09 mircea_popescu yes
11:09 asciilifeform this is the kind of situation for which 'precondition' item was made.
11:12 asciilifeform it wouldn't, naturally, go in w_mux, but in fz_mux. can prove that if the latter has it, so does the former, elementarily
11:22 mircea_popescu anwyay, revisiting an ancient conversation re http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mining+is+a+bug : i have to thoroughly concede this point to asciilifeform . the model is as follows : if a) a PoW system exists in which b) a participating entity can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others then it NECESSARILY follow that entity can, and therefore it ALSO follows that it eventually will c) impose further con
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11:22 mircea_popescu ditions on the matter being PoW than originally agreed upon, through d) the direct avenue of refusing to continue "non-compliant" chains.
11:24 mircea_popescu this then gives incentive to those eternal "powerful groups with economic interests antithetical to competitors and consumers" from http://trilema.com/2012/in-re-hein-hettinga-et-al-v-usofa/#selection-39.349-39.463 to drive integration of PoW with the predictable result.
11:24 asciilifeform mining-is-a-bug(tm)(r)
11:24 mircea_popescu the bricking-of-extant-asics moment edges ever closer.
11:25 asciilifeform iirc buncha derps already proclaimed 'pow-only' forkola
11:25 asciilifeform ( i fughet for when scheduled, and by whom, mostly slept through this )
11:26 asciilifeform it isn't even clear to asciilifeform that there is any such thing known as a good pow
11:26 mircea_popescu not as it stands.
11:26 asciilifeform so what if sha2 chinese die, if fpga-chinese immediately take their place.
11:27 mircea_popescu but there's definitely TWO known bugs in bitcoin now. to the ancient and oft discussed here node-miner split, we are to add this new one, pow-centralization.
11:27 asciilifeform not really new , was already quite painfully there in '14
11:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the bricking was never contemplated outside of something like http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/
11:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well yes, all bugs are in the pie since the baking.
11:28 * asciilifeform brb,meat
11:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/w7yTY/?raw=true
~ 58 minutes ~
12:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: worx!!
12:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-04#1732934 << re this entire discussion, helpful graybeard points out that throughout the 1991 A-10s/F15s patrolled iraq trying to spot the scud TELs, but ~never managed.
12:38 a111 Logged on 2017-11-04 15:47 asciilifeform: incidentally, rf 'fox hunting' is at this point a traditional sport in ru, and the 'fox' is always found .
12:38 mircea_popescu too much like normal trucks, too burried into em background.
12:39 mircea_popescu and we're talking 100s of airborne detectors, latirn, synthetic aperture radars, the works.
12:39 mircea_popescu (amusingly, pentagon went in with the same expectations ; but never actually managed to land a hit)
12:39 asciilifeform pretty 'small' target tho.
12:40 mircea_popescu a 12 meter rocket + the semi truck carrying it x3 + tankers + c&c + meteo etc ?
12:40 asciilifeform not really comparable to what iirc prev thread was about, hypothetical kW sw transmitter in usa suburbia wastescape
12:40 mircea_popescu if that is small there is no big,.
12:40 asciilifeform small rfwise i mean.
12:40 mircea_popescu but huge thermalwise.
12:40 mircea_popescu you decided infrared is not em ?
12:41 mircea_popescu (lantir = infared targetting and navigation item)
12:42 asciilifeform mention of 'fox hunt' thread led me to think that the iraq memory were re rf triangulation, rather than search for ir-glowing truck engines from aerial camera
12:42 mircea_popescu that was one aspect of it.
12:43 mircea_popescu SAR, another aspect of it.
12:43 mircea_popescu if there was something to try, it was tried.
12:44 asciilifeform the ho chi minh truck search iirc worked better because smaller background.
12:44 mircea_popescu maybe also much shittier trucks.
12:44 asciilifeform similar trucks
12:44 mircea_popescu this was you know, the desert. what's in the desert.
12:45 mircea_popescu anyway. the general point here being that fox hunt a LOT more difficult than everyone ever expects, be it alf, pentagon, etcetera.
12:46 asciilifeform errythingdepends, i'd expect, on the relative 'sizes' of fox vs forest trees.
12:46 mircea_popescu 9 truck convoy > sand dune.
12:47 mircea_popescu (teh carrier, 8x8 artillery truck uses a 40-L diesel engine or somesuch)
12:48 asciilifeform also depends on wavelength. uhf (10s of GHz) line-of-sight beams behave muchly like laser, you gotta know exactly where it is and sit down into the path through air, no bigger than train tunnel, to listen
12:48 asciilifeform whereas most of what folx think of as traditional radio spectrum, goes around corners, terrain, moar omnidirectional flavour
12:49 mircea_popescu but the fox is still big.
12:50 diana_coman asciilifeform, in fz_type.ads: why is word_count range 1..Indices'Last and not 1..Indices'Last/Word'Size ?
12:50 mircea_popescu the "think of it as heat" mental experiment imo has the great advantage of clearing the mind of all sorts of bizarro world "nsa is cool" assumptions about "electromagnetic signature", a magical property of radiation to "know who its daddy is" or somesuch
12:50 asciilifeform diana_coman: why would you divide ? i dun get it
12:51 asciilifeform 1 .. Indices'Last is simply a way to say 'exactly same as Indices, but 0 is forbidden'
12:52 asciilifeform theoretically a word count of a number equal to the number of words in machine's memory, is legal
12:52 asciilifeform what does dividing it by word bitness ( Word'Size ) accomplish ?
12:54 diana_coman uhm; my understanding is that Indices is in essence the type for bit-level indexing; sure some values overlap but you can't have in same fz same number of words as of bits unless wordsize is 1
12:55 asciilifeform Indices is the root type for ~all~ possible indices, of anything.
12:56 asciilifeform diana_coman's observation would make sense for narrowing the type of FZBit_Index .
12:56 asciilifeform i did not do it because it adds runtime overhead ( the bounds get checked , and even in inner loops ) without preventing any kind of problem that can happen in reality
12:57 diana_coman k, thanks
12:57 asciilifeform a value of type FZBit_Index cannot be assigned a value greater than machineaddressspace/wordsize without 9,000 other things being unfathomably broken
12:58 asciilifeform now for the sad:
12:58 asciilifeform readers may recall that originally ffa was a 'generic unit'
12:58 asciilifeform and originally i even had autozeroing for FZ, and zeroing on going-out-of-stackframe.
12:59 asciilifeform the latter required finalization and for FZ to be a struct rather than bare array ( finalization massively bloated the binary; whereas structization massively bloated the src )
12:59 asciilifeform so it's gone.
12:59 asciilifeform the genericunit allowed a given running instance of ffa to know the actual ffawidth desired; and to have stricter checks on arguments
13:00 asciilifeform but it turns out that it is not possible to have a standalone static lib containing an uninstantiated generic, in adaworld
13:00 asciilifeform so generic -- gone. ( also shrinks the binary, a bit )
13:08 asciilifeform diana_coman: you do have a point , though, an ffa that is an ideal mathematical description of every relevant bound, would look slightly different from the ffa i actually have, that has to actually run on idjit cmachine iron in something like real time.
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13:08 asciilifeform and if i were a haskellist and writing with an eye toward ~machine~ proof, rather than fits-in-head, i probably would have written one.
13:09 asciilifeform but there are already plenty of haskellists writing nonsense. asciilifeform wanted an actually usable fits-in-head item.
13:10 asciilifeform ( 'ideal mathematically-sufficient' ffa would probably include solely egyptian multiplier, for example. )
13:10 asciilifeform and solely knuthian divider for the modulus op. etc.
13:10 asciilifeform ( knuthian divider, if anyone forgets, is an exact inversion of egyptian multiplier. )
13:13 asciilifeform ( btw nobody yet asked why ffa is now a standalone-built static lib, rather than as before , a set of sources to be simply dropped into other projects. answer is -- binary audit )
13:25 mircea_popescu nothing keeps anyone from taking source either
13:26 asciilifeform anyone naturally can cut up into whatever pieces. the issue is how is it structured on asciilifeform's desk.
13:26 asciilifeform for certain purposes it makes a permanent difference.
13:27 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~
14:47 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745589 <- makes sense
14:47 a111 Logged on 2017-12-02 18:08 asciilifeform: diana_coman: you do have a point , though, an ffa that is an ideal mathematical description of every relevant bound, would look slightly different from the ffa i actually have, that has to actually run on idjit cmachine iron in something like real time.
~ 2 hours 4 minutes ~
16:51 mircea_popescu in other old news, http://trilema.com/2017/a-better-man-than-i/ aka la grande belezza is a fucking fabulous film.
16:51 mircea_popescu it might actually be the best film ever made.
16:58 asciilifeform in other eagle eyes, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18380
16:59 mircea_popescu aren't blogs cool ? seriously now.
17:00 mircea_popescu !~later tell apeloyee hey, do you want a job working for minigame ?
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17:00 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
17:01 * asciilifeform had nfi minigame had jobs etc
17:02 mircea_popescu why not ?
17:02 mircea_popescu i've been trying to hire a bunch of artists for what, 5 years now ?
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17:03 mircea_popescu the one thing teh republic doesn't lack is jobs.
17:03 asciilifeform i suppose the word has >1 meaning
17:04 mircea_popescu like what ?
17:05 asciilifeform well we dun have so many, afaik, 'fix X, get Q btc' sort of job.
17:05 mircea_popescu we have tons. starting with "fix your tits, get 0.02 btc" and from there on.
17:06 asciilifeform other than the tits
17:06 asciilifeform do i know about any of this ?
17:06 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745610
17:06 a111 Logged on 2017-12-02 22:02 mircea_popescu: i've been trying to hire a bunch of artists for what, 5 years now ?
17:07 asciilifeform artist auditions are different item than the one in the q where 'fix x... get..' neh
17:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you personally for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591437 ; to quote from teh very boardroom of minigame earlier, "<mircea_popescu> noa. evident ca idealu' ar fi fost ca tata asta sa fi fost gata facuta din 2016, cum discutasem initial cu stan. da'... sufletu'."
17:08 a111 Logged on 2016-12-27 22:14 mircea_popescu: course since the nsa consulting work for minigame is going to produce ada rsa, it might be an idea to have an ~ada~ tmsr crypto lib.
17:08 mircea_popescu ie, it'd have been nice to have this item done last year as per original discussions. but whatever.
17:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's no difference. artists dun wanna work, ie ON TIME and TO SPEC and ON WHAT THEY'RE TOLD TO just like erryone else.
17:10 asciilifeform actually now that i think about it, mircea_popescu had a crypto bounty thing also
17:11 asciilifeform for symmetric ciphering
17:11 * asciilifeform can't turn up the link for some reason
17:11 mircea_popescu the amount of jobs awaiting workers exceeds the amount of availavble workers by a factor never before seen in human history ; not even during the saudi reign 20 years ago. not even in china. nowhere.
17:12 mircea_popescu take for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1742032
17:12 a111 Logged on 2017-11-22 11:41 RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu I may have someone worth inviting to chan for interview in the coming days. Most of the folks I know over there are primarily oral translators, so having to look around a bit. Just got back yesterday - BJ is a real shithole but the people are adorable, lots of good duck. FYI - 'VPN AC' (Romanian) seems to be the only one working well/consistently behind the firewall (I've used many) and
17:12 mircea_popescu has it yet been A YEAR since the discussion of hiring a motherfcucking chinese office girl was tabled ?
17:12 * asciilifeform finally did dig up the first mention of proto-ffa in l0gz : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-09#1479552
17:12 a111 Logged on 2016-06-09 22:06 asciilifeform: i discovered that mainstream finite field libs are as complicated as they are largely because they insist on growable - and, ergo, heap-allocated - nums.
17:12 mircea_popescu where the fuck is the office girl ?
17:13 mircea_popescu etcetera.
17:13 asciilifeform !~seen RagnarDanneskjol
17:13 jhvh1 asciilifeform: RagnarDanneskjol was last seen in #trilema 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 32 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <RagnarDanneskjol> Everbright Bank has, by far, the lowest entry barriers for business or tourist visitors opening new accounts.
17:13 mircea_popescu and yes, i'd much rather pour a coupla bitcents into the ground instead of paying "hiring experts" etcetera. by very far.
17:13 mircea_popescu at least when i pour it into the ground, i know what i'm doing with it as i do it.
17:14 mircea_popescu consider this schmucktard : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724165
17:14 a111 Logged on 2017-10-11 20:40 BHopkins: I had to look up the current price, and the answer is yes :)
17:15 asciilifeform what about him
17:15 mircea_popescu nobody in his line of work has EVER made a bitcoin's worth in one year no matter what they did. but does he have enough sense to go... hmmm... i'll treat this as an advance, and use it to finance my supposedly useful work coming back with deliveries worth at least 10x that, because thaty's how useful i am, and see what happens
17:15 mircea_popescu so... no. white man is lazy and stupid, in whatever order. the problem's not the lack of jobs.
17:15 mircea_popescu the problem's the 3rd world whore's attitude, as described in that friday piece.
17:16 mircea_popescu but otherwise -- everything's sough. you got tits ? make money. you can code ? make money. you can draw ? make money. you "got relations" / can pr/whatever the fuck you got ? MAKE MONEY!
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17:17 mircea_popescu "oh but mp... really... i can't do anything, not usefully, not well, not within pre-glacial timeframes, not... not..."
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17:17 mircea_popescu riight,
17:18 asciilifeform glacial at least beats nuffin..
17:18 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/these-fools-have-been-handed-a-technology-so-clever-so-disruptive-and-revolutionary-that-the-rulers-of-the-world-would-have-to-fully-unmask-themselves-as-ruthless-tyrants-in-order-to-suppress-it/#comment-123721 << this stupid bitch, can be arsed to spam trilema by hand, can NOT be arsed to read anything. everyone, including the very last hopeless african in the throes of death by innanition imagines th
17:18 mircea_popescu emselves a process designer.
17:18 asciilifeform asciilifeform so far only glacial .
17:18 mircea_popescu ima, dontcha know, follow the funnel they constructed, like everyone's got an apple concept store.
17:18 mircea_popescu what, and write them emails ?
17:18 mircea_popescu why. who the fuck are they, and who the fuck am i, and who adapts to whom ?
17:19 mircea_popescu recall that schmuck with the french isp, which upon examination turned out to be 0% isp and 100% a vehicle for the inept vanities and worldviews of a few idle and overcomfortable schmucks ?
17:19 asciilifeform the cocks thing ?
17:19 mircea_popescu it's all that, all the way down.
17:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, recently, some grenoble thing.
17:19 asciilifeform the one davout dug up ?
17:19 mircea_popescu or for that matter just as recently, some german dork.
17:20 mircea_popescu the dude with fucking options and self-determinations as to who he wants to work with.
17:20 mircea_popescu all of it, however wrapped, however excused, it's the same thing : we here in white man world are incapable of doing anything useful and don't wish to see why this'd make any difference.
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17:22 asciilifeform possibly people shit their pants when they find that an entire field has to be burned and rebuilt
17:22 mircea_popescu so why should that sort of people eat ?
17:23 asciilifeform can't think of why.
17:24 mircea_popescu if you're rich enough to make your own decisions, good, make shit on your own time and in your own way, that's ACTUALLY VALUABLE, get paid via ownership share.
17:24 mircea_popescu if you're too poor to ownership share, need to be paid in cash, that means no options and no decisions and off to work whore.
17:25 mircea_popescu either way, low output means low value and dubious humanity. that's capitalism.
17:25 mircea_popescu and capitalism ain't going anywhere.
17:28 * asciilifeform points out, ftr, that he is only able to sometimes make-in-own-time by whoring out in saeculum.
17:28 asciilifeform like several other folx here.
17:28 mircea_popescu hey. erryone's living his own life.
17:28 mircea_popescu but you can't argue both ends. it can't be "oh, there's no jobs" and ALSO "i'm not doing the jobs". unemployment office kicks you out, and so does everyone else, for good reason.
17:30 mircea_popescu now, obviously in the particular case of "make crypto bit for eulora" the problem evidently is that such an item is more complex than what worker usually workers. this is true, but also it was your idea, blocking also that out.
17:30 asciilifeform fwiw asciilifeform will submit ffa.rsa to be judged in mircea_popescu's symm cipher contest, supposing the latter is still running
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17:30 mircea_popescu so... you wanna work self-managedly, and are rich enough to afford it, great! not rich enough to afford it... stfu. pick one and only one.
17:31 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745663 <- how was that, "perfectly insignificant and incapable individuals, whose existence is only rendered possible through the high organization of civilized crowds..."
17:31 a111 Logged on 2017-12-02 22:20 mircea_popescu: all of it, however wrapped, however excused, it's the same thing : we here in white man world are incapable of doing anything useful and don't wish to see why this'd make any difference.
17:31 mircea_popescu diana_coman except here's the biter : the "civilized crowds" only ever survives (briefly) as an extraction engine.
17:31 mircea_popescu BECAUSE india credited london, THEREFORE the ~pretense~, idle and basless, of british empire.
17:32 mircea_popescu BECAUSE http://trilema.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/#selection-103.0-103.28 THEREFORE "us empire"
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17:32 diana_coman hm, by same token life only ever survives (briefly) as an extraction engine, what of it
17:33 mircea_popescu (anyone remember the derpage early 2000s in the same venues that these days discuss "toxic facts" and "russian hackers" ?)
17:33 mircea_popescu diana_coman that the republic is the only economically stable thing -- the extraction of the smart.
17:33 mircea_popescu everything else... just trying to. lasts while it lasts.
17:34 mircea_popescu there's no fundamental reason for nicaraguan working abroad to save in dollars ; there was no fundamental reason for indian to think his kid must go to school in london. smoke and mirrors, and those are terrible basis for one's life
17:34 asciilifeform i thought it was dollars because 'best horse in glue factory'
17:35 mircea_popescu in the specific sense that by the time "you figure it out" they're gone. today, everyone wants to go to college. today it's too late to go to college. everyone wants a 401k ? guess what... too late to. and so on.
17:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nothing about the usd makes it best. no, it's dollars for the same reason "eat at mcdonalds" -- worst horse in glue factory.
17:36 asciilifeform at one time was some sort of optimum between 'inflates slowly' and 'gettable', neh
17:36 mircea_popescu by the time the plebs figure out "where the party is", the party just moved.
17:36 mircea_popescu this is how earth has worked for 5k+ years, no exceptions known.
17:36 mircea_popescu the one you're looking at, whatever it may be, won't turn out to be the exception, either.
17:36 asciilifeform lol how else. who wants a party full of everyone.
17:36 mircea_popescu quite.
17:37 mircea_popescu so this "civilized crowds" thing is ~suicide.
17:37 mircea_popescu yes, were you living in the time of your parents, the strategy you came up with would have worked. you're not.
17:37 mircea_popescu were the ww2 generals fighting ww1, they'd have ALL been great military minds
17:37 mircea_popescu but... they weren't.
17:37 diana_coman well, the *what* it extracts is of course much more telling of what the thing is to start with; as for the reasons there... reason was as far as I understand it "they are better than us because they defeated us", can't say it's obviously "smoke and mirror"
17:37 asciilifeform i'll admit that i'm not quite sure what the opposing argument, that mircea_popescu is bulldozing, exactly was
17:38 asciilifeform ( it's a quality bulldozing. but of what exactly. )
17:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform natural indolence and psychological comfort seeking, i guess. unspoken because defensive.
17:39 mircea_popescu diana_coman point isn't that it extracts, point is that it doesn't, not really. that's what i'm saying, that the whole "whose existence is only rendered possible through the high organization of civilized crowds" is really VERY vulnerable, because the high organization doesn't ACTUALLY cause or control the extraction.
17:39 mircea_popescu it's 100% "making the sun raise" by gesturing wildly at 5:15 am
17:39 mircea_popescu rise*
17:39 mircea_popescu which is why the british empire COULDNT prevent its own demise. nor the current one. nor any other "highly organized civilised crowd".
17:40 mircea_popescu the lido gets sanded. this is not up to venice to prevent. end of story. trying to live off civilization is exactly like trying to live off fishing, or off playing double-or-nothing at the casino.
17:40 mircea_popescu bitter poverty is the only certain result.
17:41 mircea_popescu (really, nobody ever wonders how come the fishermen are always the poorest demographic ? the sea is so very rich!)
17:41 diana_coman there was no counter-argument there; those were scum; the point was simply that this sort of scum is alive for longer than it would be if not for the warm/comfy "crowd"
17:41 mircea_popescu that's for sure.
17:43 diana_coman and moreover, that was said in 1898, not as if it's new or anything
17:44 mircea_popescu myeah.
17:45 diana_coman re not really extracts - I guess it's fair to say it's not "extracts" but rather "charms out of" and that certainly makes some sense; although it's totally unclear how it went from conquering actively to charming passively
17:45 asciilifeform so why fisherman poor? maybe sea not so rich ?
17:47 mircea_popescu diana_coman it never went. see... take say the early greek wars. those dudes did essentially a society game : the men stripped and cockwrestled on a field on a sunday. the "defeat" of the defeated was a two phase game. phase 1, where their line broke. phase 2, most important, where THEIR WOMEN spread out for THE OTHER GUYS. because fuck you loser. exactly how college football worked when it worked, you mean means you get the
17:47 mircea_popescu other team's cheerleader bus, au naturel. exactly what teh airmen meant by "tailhookers all weather attack" fliers dumped on area colleges.
17:47 mircea_popescu it always was charming.
17:47 mircea_popescu that's the problem with "modern war", that its charming quality of yore became quite grotesque.
17:48 mircea_popescu yet the function remained, half the kids born in berlin 1946 were russian.
17:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the sea is rich ; but the fisherman's stuck playing a loser game.
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17:48 mircea_popescu the problkem is this : your fishing today is in no way improved by your fishing yesterday.
17:48 mircea_popescu because i wrote all those trilema articles, when i sit down to write an article today, i copme up with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1744980
17:48 a111 Logged on 2017-12-01 18:33 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-01#1744952 << mega-piece btw
17:49 mircea_popescu every gram of sweat off my brow, every keystroke magnified thousandfold by the passive value of accumulated history.
17:49 mircea_popescu very easy to write trilema when you've been writing trilema ; fucking hard to be a fisherman when you've been a fisherman. hence http://trilema.com/2012/la-terra-trema/
17:51 mircea_popescu the discussion re poker, EXACTLY same thing. once the buildup went away... no further point to playing.
17:51 mircea_popescu ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694597 )
17:51 a111 Logged on 2017-08-06 16:51 mircea_popescu: (this point, in either "intern can progress" or "sit in forum and access meaning" presentation, is the fundamental mechanism of both "rounders" and that "poolhall junkies" cheapo rehack of it : that the dude playing can decide the girl's future, a degree of magnitude above her own capacity. take that away -- it's not worth doing. and you sure as fuck ain't meeting the head of ny law firm socially, and play $X with him so he g
17:59 mircea_popescu and that is what it fucking means, that opportunity loss is unevaluable. had i not written http://trilema.com/2010/daca-tot-ce-poti-face-in-viata-asta/ in 2010, i couldn't have well written http://trilema.com/2016/and-now-the-story-has-an-ending/ in 2016 ; and without that in turn the quoted piece. you can't summon these up on the spot when you need them, literally cant, just like wolf can't physically sharpen his teeth in th
17:59 mircea_popescu e split-second right before fight, there's not enough brain in any skull that ever passed the woman's middle to manage such ample feats. some try, but why should i take amphetamine today to compensate for having been lazy a decade ago ?
17:59 mircea_popescu and for that matter, why did i write the original ? i had nfi when i did what the future'd be like. SURELY it was no possible perception of value. but this is merely an indication of just how fucking valuable the whole thing is, if it builds meaning upon itself in a manner that defies imagination.
18:03 mircea_popescu actually, re-reading the comments i know why i wrote it. because i didn't like the implication that "so what if liberalizing drugs leads to truck drivers being forced to meth by economic pressure, fuck them, they're truck drivers". the idea being that you never know who the truck driver is.
~ 46 minutes ~
18:49 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> very easy to write trilema when you've been writing trilema ; fucking hard to be a fisherman when you've been a fisherman. hence http://trilema.com/2012/la-terra-trema/ << Mega film, need to rewatch
18:50 mircea_popescu ever seen il scopone scientifico ?
18:50 BingoBoingo Not yet that I remember
18:50 mircea_popescu bette davis is this old woman playing cards with ghetto italians (sordi and i think mangano ?)
18:51 mircea_popescu yeah, it was her. perfect chick for the role, basically subsistence prostitute in ww2 italy. then ended up in cinecitta.
18:51 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> other team's cheerleader bus, au naturel. exactly what teh airmen meant by "tailhookers all weather attack" fliers dumped on area colleges. << An appeal of hanging out with the old drunks in recovery is that their time drinking often seems a sort of cultural cosmoline.
18:52 mircea_popescu howssat ?
18:53 mircea_popescu in other lulz, imdb on lollobrigida : "She was the daughter of a furniture manufacturer, and grew up in the pictorial mountain village."
18:54 BingoBoingo Well, appears when the booze is preventing new memory formation you get a lot of "WTF? Why no butt patting the entertainment at work anymore"
18:54 mircea_popescu a
18:55 BingoBoingo And "Where my country gone" laments
18:56 BingoBoingo Also, Trump insufficiency syndrome
19:06 BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/#footnote_1_54763 << Ah, this is such a reminder of the datacenter search. Particularly in Peru and SE Asia
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~
20:27 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
20:27 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 10891.59, vol: 8946.79513240 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 10858.0, vol: 49925.80321512 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 10846.0, vol: 2584.39676055 | Volume-weighted last average: 10862.3853444
20:29 BingoBoingo Anyone want to put a bet against one bitcent for "Bitcoin passes 12500 (per '!~ticker --market all' VWLA) while I am enroute from StL to Montevideo
~ 40 minutes ~
21:09 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo aite.
~ 39 minutes ~
21:49 asciilifeform meanwhile, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18384
21:57 mod6 yeah, thx for msg'ing back; indeed, his pastes are gone!?
21:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform better error message is "please use p.bvulpes, your pastes vanished"
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