Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-10-04 | 2017-10-06 → ↓
00:03 mircea_popescu in other great news, looks like the politruks got together, decided they really only have the office space for one of the two, and axed twitter.
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00:03 BingoBoingo AHA
00:04 mircea_popescu moving towards "advertising agency" in desperation is perhaps the lulziest fiat conceit yet.
00:04 mircea_popescu not only for the direct reason, but for the implicit hope that maybe... wikipedia follows suit ?
00:04 mircea_popescu all the fucktards going around wikipediaing for the past decade won't chase me around so i step on their worthless bodies instead of the pavement, of course.
00:05 BingoBoingo Hey, walmart is moving to online strategy of "Amazon 3rd party reseller market" but shittier website
00:05 mircea_popescu nor will they ever raise the acumen to confront the plain reality of how they ~should~
00:05 mircea_popescu but i'll lol, which is comparatively the larger part anyway.
00:09 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/cLq0U/?raw=true
00:11 BingoBoingo I wonder how pissed average USian would be if they learned large chunks of the world gets 6%+ economic growth sustained over decades
~ 21 minutes ~
00:33 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1720990 << waiwaat
00:33 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 04:03 mircea_popescu: in other great news, looks like the politruks got together, decided they really only have the office space for one of the two, and axed twitter.
00:35 trinque http://archive.is/IrEBe << "Two black lawmakers in the U.S. Congress" something or other
00:38 asciilifeform this is pretty great
00:39 mircea_popescu !!withdraw 0.0120199 14PywEwC84oBNn4fZiFJssjDPQTokgdGE7
00:39 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gEl7P/?raw=true
00:40 mircea_popescu !!v A3C339306287A0EF5DB3FF8AAE9B8B025273132697C1BCB814C3EFC1AE30E984
00:40 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TrlUR/?raw=true
00:40 mircea_popescu trinque around ? :D
00:43 trinque this urgent, or can wait til tomorrow?
00:45 midnightmagic cool deedbot functionality.
00:49 mircea_popescu not really urgent if inconvenient
00:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform whatever, "investors displeased with key figures" if you prefer the in-universe formulation
00:53 asciilifeform also great, can't wait to buy ticker to watch the cement poured
00:53 asciilifeform *ticket
00:53 mircea_popescu nah, likely will unwind the way of ~any other scam
00:53 mircea_popescu "bought by verizon"
00:53 trinque mircea_popescu: get it out for ya tomorrow with a fresh brain; about to retire for the night
00:54 mircea_popescu nn
01:06 mircea_popescu "Venture capital isn’t an asset class, it’s a system to transfer wealth from state pension funds into the pockets of general partners. Some of the wealth moves into the pockets of kids working on new technology. This part is important, because that technology can have a moonshot chance of improving the world. Someone’s gotta fund moonshots, and it’s not gonna be banks. Venture capital, then, is a charitable service. W
01:06 mircea_popescu hy not advertise honestly? Nonprofits are allowed a 3% management fee so VC firms can still afford disgusting salaries and daily crudité delivery. Maybe that decreases the likelihood that endowments and pension funds allocate assets to Silicon Valley, but LPs allocate less than 0.5% of their funds to this subset of private equity anyway. Venture capital is already a tax writeoff." << check out who gets how the whole pile of
01:06 mircea_popescu irrelevant noise actually works.
01:17 BingoBoingo Is that Elaine?
01:20 mircea_popescu aha.
01:20 mircea_popescu a yeah, what happened to her ?
01:22 BingoBoingo I'm not sure
01:22 mircea_popescu in other lulz, wall funded in congress ?
01:23 BingoBoingo Not yet, just passed a house committee
01:24 mircea_popescu ah right.
01:24 mircea_popescu o look, bitcoin crash under 0.085 nao.
01:24 mircea_popescu I THINK REBOUND IMMINENT!
01:25 BingoBoingo lol, a lot of people would be surprised how bouncy concrete is
01:25 mircea_popescu and a lot of redditors would be surprised at how bouncy tits are.
01:25 mircea_popescu experience is a valuable teacher absent for most experts.
01:31 BingoBoingo Bouncy's one of those weird qualities.
~ 32 minutes ~
02:04 mircea_popescu aaand in other "after graduation i plan to spend a year in africa doing charity work" news, http://i.4cdn.org/hc/1501923521316.jpg
02:13 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/nwC5j/?raw=true
~ 8 hours 8 minutes ~
10:21 mod6 mornin'
10:26 mod6 hola
10:27 mircea_popescu hey mod6
10:27 mircea_popescu aaand in other "global warming" lulz, costa rica has been beset by an... anti-tropical storm, with temperatures 10 degrees below period averages and winds in the 50kph+ range since yest.
10:27 mircea_popescu apparently this is now possible.
10:27 mod6 heh
10:30 mod6 pretty windy
10:33 shinohai mircea_popescu should hold kite-flying contest amongst the slaves. Winner is girl who can keep kite aloft for 2+ minutes using only erect nipples.
10:33 mircea_popescu the avian biodiversidad is pretty fucking sad looking, i'll tell you that.
10:33 mircea_popescu these pair of eagles came to say good morning erry day, nowehre to be seen this morn.
10:33 mod6 hunkered down huh
10:34 mircea_popescu i don't expect they can fly in this. eagle isn't a swallow.
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
11:43 mircea_popescu and in other lulz : https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-181800-p-2.html (poor dooglus ended up paying a 4k btc to a bunch of lazy retartds pretending to be strippers, two years after.)
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11:44 mircea_popescu an honest man, he is ; actually functional in any proper sense, they aren't.
11:48 shinohai If I made that offer on some South-American camslut site, it wouldn't last a week.
11:48 mircea_popescu there's half a billion of them, and what, one a year manages to find her way to a hundy ?
11:49 mircea_popescu i don't think it can be put into words, how much of the whole "poor people need help" the pay-for-your-tits disabused in my mind.
11:49 mircea_popescu they need help like they need designer bags.
11:50 asciilifeform designer body bags
12:03 asciilifeform in other noose, asciilifeform derived a simple constant-time variant of barrett. short enough to put in the l0gz:
12:04 asciilifeform algo computes r := x mod m.
12:04 asciilifeform or rather, x0 mod m, x1 mod m, ... ( as happens in modexp )
12:05 asciilifeform let, for concreteness, x's are 8192 bits wide ( as they are in the 4096b rsa demo. ) m - in same - is 4096b wide.
12:06 asciilifeform compute 'barrettoid' c for the current m : c := 2^4096 / p . this is done via the knuthian longdividotron, once per modexp.
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12:07 asciilifeform note that this is a 4097-bit ( in actual ffa, 8192b ) constant.
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12:07 asciilifeform now , for each reduction,
12:08 asciilifeform compute the quotient-guess q, q := (c * x) >> 4096
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12:08 asciilifeform if q' is the actual quotient, the inequality q' <= q <= 4q' holds. ( proof left for the reader )
12:10 asciilifeform so now we gotta r := x - q*m , from 1 to 4 times ( this is done via subtract and mux-on-carry , so it always happens 4 times, but when q becomes == to q' the mux stops changing the result )
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12:10 asciilifeform now r is == to the remainder of x/m .
12:11 mircea_popescu sounds like the whole discussion coupla weeks ago actually found its way into actual practice.
12:12 mircea_popescu significant gains ?
12:12 asciilifeform in ordinary barretting, x loses its bottom however-many bits, to make the multiplication smaller, depending on the 'bitlength' of x; and then its gets restored with a leftshift . we can't do this, because ffa.
12:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is quite different from the apeloyee d00d's suggested method
12:12 asciilifeform he proposed to do the normalization as usual, but with 'secret shift' algo. which , any way you cut it, eats more cycles than knuthian division even.
12:13 asciilifeform as for gains, i dun know for sure yet, because i gotta manually implement the asymmetric karatsubaization for the above
12:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform both salient points (the multi-try mod ; the divide powers of two by p) were part of a larger discussion where you defended tooth and nail teh impossibility!
12:13 asciilifeform given that currently we have only symmetric (equal-bitness multiplicands) multiplication, which will waste massive cycles
12:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i did conjecture that you can skip normalization if you widen the register.
12:14 asciilifeform ( at the cost of n log n )
12:14 mircea_popescu hey, i'm not complaining.
12:14 mircea_popescu on teh contrary
12:15 asciilifeform the (unsurprising) surprise is that ^method is wholly absent from the public lit
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12:15 asciilifeform until nao.
12:17 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721065 << i oughta expand on this step : first we do r := x - q*m ; then it needs from 0 to 3 further subtractions of m ( we do this muxically . )
12:17 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 16:10 asciilifeform: so now we gotta r := x - q*m , from 1 to 4 times ( this is done via subtract and mux-on-carry , so it always happens 4 times, but when q becomes == to q' the mux stops changing the result )
12:17 asciilifeform anyway that's the whole thing.
12:17 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/the-problems-of-today/ << Trilema - The problems of today
12:18 asciilifeform i posted it in case meteorite falls on asciilifeform some time in next wk.
12:18 deedbot http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721004 << http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rJRhV/?raw=true
12:19 trinque hm no a111 quote?
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12:19 trinque mircea_popescu: ^
12:19 mircea_popescu why ty.
12:20 mircea_popescu trinque bots are set to ignore bots currently.
12:20 trinque ah k
12:20 mircea_popescu does it reference like that automatically ?
12:20 trinque shall yes, though there are still a few human steps in there today.
12:20 trinque but all the stuff works, which is neat
12:21 trinque I'm in the position to boop a qr code on an airgap machine for the signed tx
12:21 mircea_popescu maybe it's legitimate to except deedbot from "bots" then, seeing how it'll never read loglines which is what the ocncern was.
12:21 trinque yep, wont
12:21 mircea_popescu phf ben_vulpes Framedragger excepting deedbot from the "don't read out bods" ? feasible ?
12:22 asciilifeform !~seen Framedragger
12:22 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Framedragger was last seen in #trilema 11 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 53 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Framedragger> yeah.
12:22 asciilifeform d00d lost at sea or wut.
12:24 mircea_popescu he said something about a new job or moving or something, i'm foggy on details.
12:25 asciilifeform iirc it was a move out of britanistan.
12:25 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683494
12:25 a111 Logged on 2017-07-14 16:39 Framedragger: [PSA, framedraggerish duties to resume soon and answers to irc pings to come (country move done nao, much win). talk soon]
12:27 mircea_popescu maybe he got a new gf or something.
12:28 mircea_popescu by the way, since we're doing PSAs : how about NOT doing dumb shit like this, as a matter of well maintained policy, so we have a chance in hell of knowing whether you've been fucking kidnapped as opposed to you know, merely unreliable in the family way.
12:28 asciilifeform hopefully new gf is not that isidora isis whorecraft or what was her name
12:28 mircea_popescu lol why not ?
12:29 asciilifeform usg mata hari ?
12:29 mircea_popescu if that means she'd at least put some fucking doing into the fucking, i'm all for it.
12:30 asciilifeform the radio silence does suggest -- as mircea_popescu pointed out earlier -- that the fucking went in wrong direction.
12:30 mircea_popescu eh, suggests nothing. what does it suggest in mike's case ?
12:30 mircea_popescu !~seen mike_c
12:30 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: mike_c was last seen in #trilema 3 weeks, 3 days, 13 hours, 38 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <mike_c> congrats! I did that a long time ago too. Good luck with it.
12:31 asciilifeform iirc when mike_c vanished the 1st time, all possible explanations were on the table.
12:32 mircea_popescu but then came back, and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-13#1697401
12:32 a111 Logged on 2017-08-13 20:36 mike_c: i know, right. It's frustrating prioritizing time. Didn't have time to hang, definitely not to work, so felt weird dropping in once a month and saying "hey, haven't done anything, don't have time to do anything"
12:32 mircea_popescu and then...
12:33 trinque Framedragger appears to be still connected, so maybe he'll check his bouncer and chime in.
12:33 asciilifeform lol maybe mike_c found his new FG's to be a downer
12:33 trinque if folks are ashamed of not having time for the republic, there's more shame in being unable to say so.
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12:33 asciilifeform trinque: mike_c's bouncer stayed up for 3+yr
12:33 trinque aha
12:33 mircea_popescu or maybe he just cashed in whatever was left and paid usg for a new mortgage, or maybe was actually shot and left to bleed somewhere, or or or.
12:34 mircea_popescu that's the problem with mystery -- it's mysterious.
12:34 asciilifeform nacht und nebel.
12:40 cruciform is it OK to use waybackmachine for FG instructions?
12:42 mircea_popescu there's prolly an archive.is version too
12:42 asciilifeform i refreshed archive.is of all the major pages 2-3 day before dulap went
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12:42 cruciform thanks
12:42 asciilifeform ( incl . /phuctored , /dupes , etc )
12:43 asciilifeform lemme guess, cruciform , you didn't get the paper manual ?
12:43 cruciform asciilifeform: only the device itself
12:43 mircea_popescu o.O
12:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he bought secondhand iirc
12:43 mircea_popescu is this the first case of an actually molested package ?
12:43 mircea_popescu oh oh.
12:44 cruciform asciilifeform: correct
12:44 cruciform didn't get hit with import tax, unlike diana_coman
12:45 asciilifeform cruciform: any idea re why not ?
12:46 cruciform asciilifeform: rarely happens in UK - maybe 5% of my packages get plundered
12:47 asciilifeform i suspect that packages from amazon, etc. tend to get left alone.
12:47 asciilifeform plunder focuses on the human ones.
12:48 mircea_popescu so far observed rate is 66%
12:48 asciilifeform cruciform: https://archive.is/CGQkR << 26 sept.
12:48 cruciform asciilifeform: tyvm - reading through atm
12:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: could easily be a matter of weight. iirc each of the prev. uk purchasers, got >1
12:50 mircea_popescu i guess so
12:50 cruciform asciilifeform: I had 2 delivered
12:52 mircea_popescu maybe they googled both, one seemed like a corp.
12:52 mircea_popescu (laugh if you will, but about 99% of fiat "government" business consists of google and wikipedia searches)
12:53 asciilifeform i dun think customs monkeys get terminals
12:53 mircea_popescu ahahaha
12:53 mircea_popescu what's this, like soviets that don'\t get uniforms ?
12:53 mircea_popescu the terminals are the fucking point.
12:53 asciilifeform nah, simply for same reason street sweepers don't -- if you give'em terminals, ~0 packages will get stamped
12:54 mircea_popescu afaik they also do.
12:54 asciilifeform then allbetsareoff and i've nfi
12:55 mircea_popescu where;'s that lulz about bloomberg's "beat cops need catpics, costs 200mn, throwaway in 3 years" nobody-goes-to-jail-for-buying-terminals thing ?
13:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-05#1710827
13:00 a111 Logged on 2017-09-05 13:25 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in monkeystan, https://archive.is/6t8bO >> 'The NYPD has to scrap the 36,000 smartphones it gave cops over the past two years because they’re already obsolete and can’t be upgraded, The Post has learned. The city bought Microsoft-based Nokia smartphones as part of a $160 million NYPD Mobility Initiative that Mayor Bill de Blasio touted as “a huge step into the 21st century.”'
13:00 asciilifeform meanwhile, in today's 'reality winnings', http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/AwtB5/?raw=true
13:00 mircea_popescu dja understand that had they paid 1k per phone, which a) the ipad never cost and b) volume discounts, they'd have justified less than ONE QUARTER of what they actually spent.
13:01 asciilifeform overhead!11
13:01 mircea_popescu 36 k smartphones at the cost of 4444 dollars each.
13:01 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> i dun think customs monkeys get terminals << Menial USG employment implies terminal for fucking off
13:01 mircea_popescu only suckers pay retail. ustards pay something else entirely.
13:01 asciilifeform toilet seat in 1980s in pentagon, famously, 5k usd ea.
13:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc 'sectera' nsa-issued pnoje, is quoted at 7k ea.
13:06 asciilifeform ( issued to nomenklatura )
13:07 mircea_popescu what, nypd ?
13:07 asciilifeform nah that one's in usg proper
13:08 asciilifeform iirc state officials, even including governor, dun get crypto.
13:09 mircea_popescu crypto ?
13:09 mircea_popescu lolz. spare me.
13:19 asciilifeform btw re nypd, oct. 23 2014 : 'Thanks to a massive $160 million investment, the New York City Police Department is on its way to receive a combination of up to 41,000 smartphones and tablets. Known as the NYPD Mobility Initiative, which will be mostly financed by criminal asset funds provided by the Manhattan DA's Office, the goal is to provide the the city's law enforcement with tools that can improve and streamline their overall work
13:19 asciilifeform flow...'
13:19 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
13:19 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4303.97, vol: 7632.28449798 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4310.3, vol: 23219.84356935 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4234.9632, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4307.4, vol: 3031.971074 | Volume-weighted last average: 4308.61469396
13:19 BingoBoingo !~bcstats
13:19 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 488425 | Current Difficulty: 1.123863285132E12 | Next Difficulty At Block: 489887 | Next Difficulty In: 1462 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 22 hours, 37 minutes, and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
13:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform obviously, you didn'[t expect the actual USG has any resources ?
13:20 asciilifeform ( sores: https://archive.is/EIZJC and elsewhere )
13:20 mircea_popescu either they use your money or else they don't get shit.
13:20 asciilifeform from where else does crown get resources, lol
13:20 asciilifeform it dun sow or reap
13:24 BingoBoingo It also discourages planting and reaping generally
13:30 asciilifeform revisiting upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721061 suggests that i'ma have to go back to the old karatsubatron, which did not insist on powers-of-two bitnesses
13:30 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 16:07 asciilifeform: note that this is a 4097-bit ( in actual ffa, 8192b ) constant.
13:30 asciilifeform ( we're talking about a 3fold speed difference )
13:32 asciilifeform will need asymmetric comba, too...
13:41 asciilifeform continuing http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721063 , this is not an ordinary mult, we only want the upper half of the bits .
13:41 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 16:08 asciilifeform: compute the quotient-guess q, q := (c * x) >> 4096
13:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you could just make it 4096. p can never be 1.
13:41 asciilifeform nogood
13:42 asciilifeform recall, whole point is to make modexp that worx for all inputs
13:42 asciilifeform otherwise we'd use montgomerization and call it a day
13:42 mircea_popescu but not allowing 1 as a divisor is not some sort of big deal.
13:42 asciilifeform ( i actually did consider, 'special case for x = 1 ' but now you've broken the constanttimealwaysandforeverness )
13:42 mircea_popescu perfectly fine definition of arithmetics, "+0 and /1 are not permitted ops"
13:43 asciilifeform going for ordinary arithmetics in ffa, not oddball alt-arithmetic.
13:43 mircea_popescu aite.
13:43 asciilifeform ( can you prove that cramer-shoup, or whatever we go with next yr, worx in yer alt-arithmetic, lol )
13:44 mircea_popescu in so many words, yes. arithmetic as it is does not allow either op.
13:44 asciilifeform mno
13:44 asciilifeform modulo 1 is a permitted op
13:44 asciilifeform yields 0.
13:44 asciilifeform ( modulo 0 is disallowed, it is same as a div0 )
13:45 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716244 << consider that part. in order for 2+3 to be unique, it has to unpermit 2*1*1+0+3*1+0+0+0+0
13:45 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 20:27 asciilifeform: how about the 'every int has unique prime factorization' item ?
13:46 asciilifeform bad enuff that we gotta check every single motherfucking unknown integer for equality to 0, before feeding it into division or modulo
13:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'holes' in arithmetic suck, because they are inescapably branch conditionals. if i could not prove that div0 is impossible in the course of, e.g., modexp intermediate steps, ffa would be a wholly impossible thing.
13:50 mircea_popescu division by 1 as part of modexp is not happening either.
13:51 asciilifeform it is if defined over integers.
13:51 mircea_popescu your ffa does reals modexp ?
13:51 mircea_popescu i had nfi 2+x modulo 7.5 is even defined.
13:52 asciilifeform as in, i get to , e.g., r = x mod ( a - b ) for some a, b
13:52 asciilifeform reals dun exist on a comp
13:52 mircea_popescu well so then. yes over fucking integers.
13:52 asciilifeform aha, integers. not integers-with-thesehere-holes.
13:52 mircea_popescu 1 is not a divisor of anything, whadda ya want from me.
13:53 asciilifeform 1 is a possible output of a - b. or whatever other combinatorics.
13:53 mircea_popescu so is 0.
13:53 asciilifeform ( as is 0, and this costs us, because you gotta have the div0 trap )
13:53 asciilifeform however div0 trap cannot leak timing, because it is a fatal condition
13:53 asciilifeform terminates the program.
13:53 mircea_popescu im not sure even this much is correct.
13:54 mircea_popescu in that it terminating the program at a certain time it leaks... a certain time.
13:54 asciilifeform a div0 does not have a defined result, and any program that attempts it is resultingly nonsense. the ancients got this right.
13:55 asciilifeform there is no way around this, if you proceed after div0, you are in neverneverland. fortunately writing pcode where div0 demonstrably never happens, is not difficult.
13:56 mircea_popescu and writing code where division by 1 also never happens is an exercise in impossibility ?
13:56 asciilifeform quite nearly.
13:56 asciilifeform i'ma leave this as exercise, and if it stays unobvious, demonstrate laters.
13:57 asciilifeform meanwhile : https://archive.is/lTyAW >> 'Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data' lolz
13:57 mircea_popescu must be all them encrypted derpphones
13:59 asciilifeform '...identifying the files through the contractor’s use of a popular antivirus software made by Russia-based Kaspersky Lab, these people said.' << lol re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-18#1700468 smear
13:59 a111 Logged on 2017-08-18 23:01 asciilifeform: 'That followed the General Services Administration removing Kaspersky from an approved-vendors list in early July and a congressional push to pass a law that would ban Kaspersky from being used by the Department of Defense.'
14:01 mircea_popescu and in other lulz, today we've seen 90 blocks in 18 hours. bitcoin working at half-capacity.
14:04 mircea_popescu !!up apeloyee
14:04 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
14:04 asciilifeform !!rated apeloyee
14:04 deedbot asciilifeform rated apeloyee 1 at 2017/09/13 18:25:08 << barrett reductionist
14:04 asciilifeform oughta be self-powered
14:04 apeloyee !!up
14:04 deedbot You must be registered.
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14:04 apeloyee see?
14:05 mircea_popescu uh
14:05 mircea_popescu apeloyee is your nick registered with nickserv ?
14:06 apeloyee I did register with nickserv, and identified to it just recently
14:08 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721060 << what's p here?
14:08 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 16:06 asciilifeform: compute 'barrettoid' c for the current m : c := 2^4096 / p . this is done via the knuthian longdividotron, once per modexp.
14:08 asciilifeform modulus
14:08 apeloyee did you mean 2^8192?
14:09 asciilifeform nope
14:09 asciilifeform 4096.
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14:09 asciilifeform work it out on paper.
14:10 asciilifeform but yes, misprint, the 'p' oughta read 'm'
14:11 asciilifeform range of m is 1 .. (2^4096) - 1 in this example.
14:11 asciilifeform of x is 0 .. (2^8192) - 1 .
14:11 asciilifeform of r, consequently, same as of m .
14:11 apeloyee if q' <= q <= 4q' , it means you don't even know ONE significant digit of q'
14:12 asciilifeform ^ also misprint, good catch
14:12 asciilifeform meant to say that it differs by from 0 to 4 multiple of m .
14:13 asciilifeform from the actual quotient.
14:13 asciilifeform ( just like in ordinary barrett . )
14:13 apeloyee ok, let m =2^4096 - 1. then c=1
14:13 asciilifeform c cannot equal 1 !
14:13 asciilifeform 2 ^ 4096 is a 4097-bit number
14:13 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-10-5#216182 << pls to update http://trilema.com/2016/trilema-bot-spec/ , i forgot this log-spec-addenda; will implement.
14:13 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2017-10-05 16:14 mircea_popescu: phf ben_vulpes Framedragger excepting deedbot from the "don't read out bods" ? feasible ?
14:13 mircea_popescu good idea.
14:14 mircea_popescu !!sexpr
14:14 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721060 << c := 2^4096 / p; i thought you only have integer division?
14:14 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 16:06 asciilifeform: compute 'barrettoid' c for the current m : c := 2^4096 / p . this is done via the knuthian longdividotron, once per modexp.
14:14 asciilifeform we have knuthian division, it gives quotient and remainder
14:15 apeloyee ok, so quotient of division of 2^4096 by 2^4096-1 is 1.
14:15 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3AEPB/?raw=true
14:16 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-10-5#216206 << i have acquired a few afk crises which have eaten a bunch of time since the move.
14:16 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2017-10-05 16:26 trinque: if folks are ashamed of not having time for the republic, there's more shame in being unable to say so.
14:16 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes how about now ?
14:17 mircea_popescu !!help sexpr
14:17 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
14:17 asciilifeform actually apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721256 << strike that, 8192 is correct
14:17 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 18:09 asciilifeform: 4096.
14:17 asciilifeform i'ma stop trying to talk in 2 terminals nao, brb
14:17 mircea_popescu !~help
14:17 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. You may also want to use the 'list' command to list all available plugins and commands.
14:17 mircea_popescu !~help sexpr
14:17 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Error: There is no command "sexpr".
14:17 mircea_popescu !#help
14:17 mircea_popescu !$help
14:18 mircea_popescu !$help json
14:18 asciilifeform apeloyee was right in that c is always 2^oneplusbitnessofx / m .
14:18 ben_vulpes bot audit
14:18 mircea_popescu aha
14:18 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: ty
14:18 mircea_popescu !Qhelp
14:18 lobbesbot mircea_popescu: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. You may also want to use the 'list' command to list all available plugins and commands.
14:18 * apeloyee straps on gas mask
14:20 mircea_popescu ok so results of audit : Framedragger, shinohai, phf : your bot has no help implemented whatsoever, in spite of spec. trinque Framedragger you don't follow the json/sexpr portion, bot simply puts out the same help.
↖ ↖
14:20 mircea_popescu now the question here is, do we actually want to ditch the machine portable portion of the help ?
14:20 ben_vulpes yes
14:20 apeloyee asciilifeform: ok, how it's different then from http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716301
↖
14:20 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 21:18 apeloyee: asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Eu9Fd/?raw=true
14:21 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes because we just don't care about machine discovery, now or ever ?
14:22 ben_vulpes i am struggling to see the case of ever. someone programming against bots should read the help themselves and implement the api described.
14:22 mircea_popescu well the original case was to end up with a proper universal api.
14:23 mircea_popescu exactly like the original url worked, in practice the spec never delivered this magical ability to query servers for resources to the end user.
14:23 mircea_popescu but practice aside, shouldn't i have the ability to query a bank of seated whores, "what can you do ?"
14:24 ben_vulpes should be binary, #t-spec compliant or not.
14:25 mircea_popescu i'm sorry. what should ?
14:25 apeloyee and ftr secret shift does work. if asciilifeform thinks it's slower than division, he must be chugging really strong stuff.
14:27 ben_vulpes the response from the bots to what they can do. either they're all spec-compliant, respond the same way to the same set of commands, or they don't.
14:28 mircea_popescu well yes. the part where the spec should be followed is not under discussion.
14:28 ben_vulpes and what, a machine-understandable description of what each extra-spec command does? i didn't think anyone here operated machines that /thought/.
14:28 mircea_popescu the part what's under discussion is the ~why~ nobody implemented the json/sexpr part of the spec./
14:28 ben_vulpes sloth, likely.
14:28 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes technology is built by steps. so far, being able to put in machine terms a "ask all the bots see which one mentions 'payments' as a string" is a legitimately useful ability.
14:29 mircea_popescu why can't i grep "hurr" over a cat #trilema bots ?
14:30 asciilifeform apeloyee: didja deliberately ignore my observation where multiword shift is intrinsically different timing than subword ?
14:31 asciilifeform your secret shift leaks timing, apeloyee
14:31 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: okay, i see it.
14:31 ben_vulpes will bring bot to spec.
14:31 apeloyee leaks _what_? it does the same fixed shifts, regardless of operands
14:32 asciilifeform a shift by multiple of the wordsize takes considerably less time than by not
14:32 asciilifeform and to make this untrue, you gotta do W (bitness of ffa) shifts by 1, at all times.
14:32 asciilifeform which is same work as knuthdivide.
14:33 * apeloyee changes gas mask canister
14:33 apeloyee a shift by multiple of the wordsize takes considerably less time than by not << and a multiply takes more time than add, what.
14:33 mircea_popescu apeloyee but now you can tell what size the shift was, to some degree, by timing.
14:34 mircea_popescu !!up apeloyee
14:34 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
14:34 apeloyee the operations themselves leak anyway. i thought they shouldn't leak operands?
14:34 mircea_popescu size of shift is an operand
14:34 apeloyee secret shift does FIXED. SHIFTS.
14:34 mircea_popescu trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721246 << any idea what this is ?
14:34 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 18:04 deedbot: You must be registered.
14:34 asciilifeform the one posted by apeloyee -- leaks
14:35 apeloyee (except the first sub-word one)
14:35 mircea_popescu well excepts are not good signs are they ?
14:35 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-21#1716617 << see also
14:35 a111 Logged on 2017-09-21 16:22 asciilifeform: !~later tell apeloyee i studied your algo, it (aside from truly massive cost, that would annihilate savings from newton, or barrett, or just about any other trick) ~still leaks~, because shifting by >wordsize is a fundamentally different op from shifting <wordsize; and the only way for this to not be true is for all shifts to happen as a series of wordsize shifts; and a shift by ffawidth-1 (max shiftness) would then consist of ffawor
14:36 apeloyee log(bitness) passes over and the same number of muxes are "massive costs" in your universe?
14:37 trinque apeloyee: you tried sending a private message to deedbot with !!up ?
14:37 apeloyee asciilifeform: write to gmp authors that you got your 4096-bit mul faster than that.
14:38 apeloyee trinque: yes.
14:38 asciilifeform apeloyee: it ain't log(bitness) ! not if you don't want to leak any info re the shift amount.
14:39 apeloyee i'm all out of gas mask cans! HOW does a FIXED shift leak?
14:40 asciilifeform https://archive.is/2zA45 << apeloyee's 'secret shift'
14:40 asciilifeform let's do it in detail
14:40 apeloyee ok
14:40 asciilifeform there are 2 invocations of conventional ffa shift :
14:41 asciilifeform ln 36 : A := Shift(A, S mod W);
14:41 apeloyee yes, the sub-word shift
14:41 asciilifeform ln 41: Scratch2 := Shift(A, S1);
14:41 apeloyee the whole-word shift
14:42 apeloyee *whole-number-of-words
14:42 asciilifeform first of all, didja ever say how to dispose of the 'while' statement ?
14:42 apeloyee fix word-size and bitness. otherwise, you don't
14:43 asciilifeform second, ~any~ wholeword shift leaks info re the shift amount, because different address sequence .
14:43 apeloyee go
14:43 apeloyee err
14:44 apeloyee goddamnit. it's FIXED!!! first sub-word one (which doesn't leak in our model), then by 1 word, then by 2, then 4, 8 and so on
14:46 asciilifeform hm i think i finally see what algo apeloyee was trying to implement ( the pseudocode doesn't actually do it )
14:47 asciilifeform you shift by all possible whole word shifts, and mux-keep the correct one; then shift by all wordsize-1 possible subword shifts, and muxkeep the right one.
14:47 asciilifeform this is in fact cheaper than knuth div.
14:47 apeloyee grrr
14:47 apeloyee no!
14:49 mircea_popescu a hey that's actually an idea.
14:49 mircea_popescu apeloyee why not ?
14:49 asciilifeform not only an idea, but afaik the only practical method that isn't W-shifts-by-1-with-mux
14:49 mircea_popescu aha.
14:50 mircea_popescu and it is in fact log-ish W
14:50 apeloyee I do log2(bitness/wordsize) shifts
14:50 apeloyee not number-of-words
14:50 asciilifeform apeloyee: Shift(A, S mod W) leaks S mod W on machines without a barrel shifter.
14:52 apeloyee I assumed the elementary shift doesn't leak. whatever, just do the sub-word shifts with the same algorithm (with word size 1)
14:52 apeloyee for exactly log(bitness) shifts and muxes.
14:53 asciilifeform is what i described above neh
14:53 asciilifeform nonleaking variant of apeloyee's algo.
14:53 asciilifeform and i suspect that he is right that it would beat doublewide-x variant.
14:53 apeloyee wrong. not wordsize-1 shifts; log2(wordsize) shifts.
14:54 mircea_popescu apeloyee no ints are ever exactly log(something) :D
14:54 asciilifeform he means bitness-of-wordsize - number of shifts
14:54 mircea_popescu i'm just being a pain.
14:54 asciilifeform lolk
14:54 apeloyee per spec the bitness is a power of two
14:54 asciilifeform indeed
14:54 trinque apeloyee: gpg: BAD04B14A4545828FABCE63C3DB30625393C0BB1: skipped: unusable public key << gpg has this to say about your fp
↖
14:54 mircea_popescu !!key apeloyee
14:54 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/BAD04B14A4545828FABCE63C3DB30625393C0BB1.asc
14:55 mircea_popescu trinque well in fairness, it does say BAD right there in the leadup
14:55 trinque lol
14:55 trinque case closed
14:55 mod6 :D
14:55 apeloyee I did up myself once, and it worked
14:55 asciilifeform it imports here
14:55 asciilifeform gpg1.4.10
14:55 mircea_popescu trinque you got corrupted, key is fine
14:55 asciilifeform d00d has perfectly working pgpkey.
14:56 trinque yes, and I barfed the key out of same gpg to put it on the wot site
14:56 mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jLqmR/?raw=true << deets
14:56 asciilifeform oh hey it's a clock item
14:56 asciilifeform trinque's clock is ahead of mine
14:57 asciilifeform and key expired.
14:57 asciilifeform ( in trinque's planet, but not yet here )
14:57 asciilifeform why didja make a key that expired in weeks, apeloyee ?!
14:58 apeloyee hm, right. well...
14:58 mircea_popescu what ?
14:58 mircea_popescu expires 0 ?
14:59 apeloyee the key expired.
14:59 asciilifeform subkey, to be specific.
15:00 mircea_popescu nuts
15:00 mircea_popescu apeloyee what was the thinking there ?!
15:00 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/D8m5z/?raw=true << gory detail
15:03 apeloyee no thinking that i can think of.
15:03 asciilifeform apeloyee: please make a new one ? and give to trinque , signed with old
15:03 asciilifeform and possibly he will agree to swap it in.
15:03 trinque when I get around to it sure
15:04 trinque but this is getting ridiculous
15:04 asciilifeform ftr apeloyee has entirely valid, imho, algo, but terribly confusing pseudocode
15:04 asciilifeform !!up apeloyee
15:04 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
15:07 asciilifeform though it does look like it'll have to do log2(wordbitness) shifts for the initial subword slide, rather than 1, to avoid leaking on machines without barrel
15:09 asciilifeform ( example : if wordbitness is 64, any subword shift is from 0 .. 63, and therefore can be expressed using 6 muxgated shifts . )
15:09 asciilifeform ( first : 'maybe shift by 1' , second : 'maybe by 2', last : ' ... by 32' )
15:10 apeloyee so do you agree it's O(bitness log bitness) now?
15:10 asciilifeform same thing we do for the wholeword shift
15:10 asciilifeform aha
15:10 apeloyee painful, but probably beats a larger muliply
15:10 asciilifeform it gotta
15:11 asciilifeform ty for properly rubbing it in asciilifeform's nose, apeloyee
15:11 apeloyee btw, i'd like to know the answer to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721304
15:11 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 18:20 apeloyee: asciilifeform: ok, how it's different then from http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716301
15:11 asciilifeform apparently ~nobody else properly reads.
15:12 asciilifeform apeloyee: it won't differ at all, once i have working shifter using your scheme.
15:12 asciilifeform as i understand will be quite exactly it.
15:13 apeloyee but but you said http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721079 !
15:13 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 16:15 asciilifeform: the (unsurprising) surprise is that ^method is wholly absent from the public lit
15:13 asciilifeform i was discussing a 'shiftless' doublewide barrett
15:13 apeloyee so was I
15:13 * asciilifeform rereads
15:13 apeloyee in that link
15:15 asciilifeform apeloyee: what is B ?
15:15 apeloyee 4^K = R*N + B, 0 <= B <= N (line seven). pseudo-remainder.
15:17 apeloyee if N is 2^(K-1), then ordinary quotient won't fit in K+1 bits. but pseudo-quotient (one less the actual quotient) still works.
15:18 apeloyee meaning you divide 4^K - 1 by the modulus, not 4^K
15:19 asciilifeform why 4^k ?
15:20 apeloyee we had that thread today!!!
↖
15:20 asciilifeform aa 2^(2k) ok
15:21 asciilifeform apeloyee: so what'd the correction step look like, with the pseudoquotient
15:22 apeloyee one subtraction and mux.
15:22 asciilifeform oh hm this worx.
15:23 asciilifeform adds exactly one sub-and-mux to the existing 3.
15:23 asciilifeform neato apeloyee , ty.
15:23 apeloyee why three?
15:25 asciilifeform was 3 in barrett's original proof. but with doublewide c, looks like only 1 ? ( though i do not yet have a proof for this )
15:25 apeloyee in the posted version exactly ONE is needed
15:25 apeloyee barrett original needed two
15:26 asciilifeform i can read, and see this. but why is it 1 ?
15:26 apeloyee A - N*floor(A*R/4^K) < 2*N <- do you agree with this? (the proof is unnecessarily complicated in that paste)
15:28 asciilifeform dunno if i do, still trying to swallow the proof.
15:29 apeloyee what step is a problem?
15:29 asciilifeform let's start with the above
15:31 apeloyee let rewind. A*R = A*(4^K - B)/N = (A*4^K)/N - A*B/N; as B <= N, then the previous >= (A*4^K)/N - A. clear?
15:32 asciilifeform ok
15:32 apeloyee A <4^K, so the above strictly >(A*4^K)/N - A.
15:33 apeloyee which is equal to (A/N - 1)*4^K
15:33 apeloyee ie our result is off by at most one
15:33 asciilifeform ok indeed worx.
15:34 apeloyee and in one side only, as obv can't be bigger than (A/N)*4^K
15:34 asciilifeform !!up apeloyee
15:34 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
15:36 asciilifeform !!rate apeloyee 2 A - N*floor(A*R/4^K) < 2*N
15:36 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/10DsF/?raw=true
15:36 asciilifeform !!v 17BC89B25DD39E071B293EDE353D50C10A165F320E436ED7FE36D996140DBBCC
15:36 deedbot asciilifeform updated rating of apeloyee from 1 to 2 << A - N*floor(A*R/4^K) < 2*N
15:36 asciilifeform eagle eyes, apeloyee . i dun suppose you have a constant time gcd up your sleeve ?
15:37 apeloyee now let's try generalizing to standard barrett (the error will grow to 2 of course). let L be number of digits in N: 2^(L-1) <= N < L. L is calc'd with the CLZ algorithm
15:37 apeloyee what you need a gcd *for*
15:37 asciilifeform miller-rabin
15:38 apeloyee I don't see any GCD in miller-rabin
15:38 asciilifeform for the initial sieve ~prior~ to miller-rabin
↖ ↖
15:38 asciilifeform want to gcd(candidate, biggestprimorialthatfitsintheffabitness)
↖ ↖
15:39 apeloyee why
15:39 asciilifeform save massive time
15:39 asciilifeform the other obvious place for gcd is rsa phi
15:40 apeloyee asciilifeform: just do trial division.
15:40 asciilifeform and in who knows what future numbertheoretical ops. we gotta have gcd.
15:40 asciilifeform trial division is dog slow vs gcd.
↖
15:41 apeloyee you gcd is O(N^3), and so is trial divisiom
15:41 apeloyee *your
15:41 asciilifeform non-constanttime gcd is certainly not O(N^3)
15:41 asciilifeform why do you think constanttime gotta be, apeloyee ?
15:42 asciilifeform take lehmer's gcd as a starting point.
15:42 apeloyee I'm simply saying trial division is better than what you have
15:42 asciilifeform i dun have a working gcd yet
15:42 apeloyee you proposed a euclidean one.
15:43 asciilifeform euclidean'd be o(n^3) yes
↖
15:43 asciilifeform ( and still not constant time )
15:43 apeloyee just do some muxes in the end. 2*bitness divisions obv suffice (actually less, but I'm sleepy now)
15:44 asciilifeform currently i suspect that it is possible to constantize lehmer's logn gcd.
15:44 asciilifeform ( or not ? )
15:45 asciilifeform hm, i must've been thinking of some other gcd algo, because lehmer's is a definite dead end.
15:45 apeloyee but here's an O(n^2 log n), for a large value of constant.
15:45 asciilifeform apeloyee: if you can think of a subquadratic constanttime gcd, plz do write in
15:45 asciilifeform oh??
15:46 apeloyee well, not subquadratic :( but obv correct
15:46 asciilifeform let's have it
15:48 apeloyee let a, b be inputs; a > b. shift b left so that it has one digit less than a (using CLZ and secretshift), subtract b from a repeatedly (at most thrice). b:= new result, a:=b
15:48 asciilifeform what happens if a <= b ??
15:48 apeloyee you sort them at the biginning, using a mux.
15:49 asciilifeform so i sorted them, answer is for the sorted pair then, not the actual pair neh
15:49 asciilifeform and say they're equal.
15:49 asciilifeform what then ?
15:50 asciilifeform other thing is that i dun see how this is constant time
15:50 asciilifeform time will vary massively depending on hamming weights
15:50 apeloyee on what planet gcd(a,b)<>gcd(b,a).
↖
15:51 asciilifeform tru!!
15:51 asciilifeform q remains tho, how to handle a==b case
15:51 apeloyee if they're equal -that's the end, the gcd is found. don't throw out the unshifted b.
15:51 asciilifeform that ain't constant time !!
15:52 asciilifeform thing has to take exactly.same.number.of.steps. regardless of what a,b equal.
15:52 apeloyee do what you'd do in euclidean.
15:53 asciilifeform pretty sure you just described lehmer's gcd, actually
15:54 apeloyee grind until you did (2*bitness) steps. since remainder can't be more than a/2.
↖
15:55 BingoBoingo In other prohetics found in the prophecy mines: "In the entire Southeast Asia, the natives know quite well that the Western expats are nothing but biatches with no integrity whatsoever. Back in their own home countries, the Asians are dominating them in every professional fields, creating various gigantic ethnic enclaves and making them Westerners becoming mere simple cheap tourists. Whenever the Westerners visit any of the Asian-created
15:55 BingoBoingo ethnic enclaves, they never fail to put on a smile and admire everything Asian. Without the Asian industriousness and food, the Westerners will just be cave people just like their cave-dwelling ancestors not too long ago. One has to wonder why didn’t the Mongol overlords finish colonizing these Westerners and turned them into proper Asians. In the near future, the Chinese will just do that because the spineless lazy Westerners have gr
↖
15:55 BingoBoingo own to be dependent on everything Chinese now."
15:57 asciilifeform apeloyee: maybe i'm thick, but i don't see how to grind 'shift so b has one digit less than a' a fixed number of times for all possible a and b.
15:58 asciilifeform can i persuade you to write this out as algo , apeloyee ?
16:00 apeloyee you shift (b) left by max(0,CLZ(a)-CLZ(b)-1) bits
16:00 asciilifeform yes that's one shot
16:00 asciilifeform but what are the fixed shots ?
16:00 asciilifeform and on what does their number depend.
16:02 apeloyee 2*bitness shots suffice (actually less). see above http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721527 .i'll write it but not now.
16:02 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 19:54 apeloyee: grind until you did (2*bitness) steps. since remainder can't be more than a/2.
16:03 asciilifeform ok laters then
16:03 * asciilifeform bbl.
16:03 apeloyee bye.
~ 17 minutes ~
16:20 trinque !~later tell apeloyee glad to see someone grinding the ffa forward with asciilifeform. get me that fixed key!
16:20 jhvh1 trinque: The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 51 minutes ~
18:11 asciilifeform !~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/93H3s/?raw=true << possibly lulzy: garza convicted
18:11 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
18:12 asciilifeform tldr: usg inquisitor imposes 10mil $ fine, plus whatever jail ( decided later )
18:14 asciilifeform !#s garza
18:14 a111 133 results for "garza", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=garza
~ 19 minutes ~
18:33 BingoBoingo lol
18:40 BingoBoingo Scum scuming scum
~ 1 hours 43 minutes ~
20:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721450 << lol.
20:24 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 19:20 apeloyee: we had that thread today!!!
20:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform pretty sure that's BingoBoingo o no wait, was it cazalla's good friend ?
20:25 mircea_popescu the guy with the slutty wife.
20:25 asciilifeform waiwat who
20:27 mircea_popescu homero garza
20:27 asciilifeform aaa
20:28 mircea_popescu ran a fake miner farm scam fore a while in iirc 2013
20:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721519 << ahaha
20:32 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 19:50 apeloyee: on what planet gcd(a,b)<>gcd(b,a).
20:34 mircea_popescu alf is obv lefthanded, has http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716151 problems with commutativity.
20:34 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 19:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lookx to me like your addition dun commute ( or associate... )
20:34 * mircea_popescu enjoyed reading convo, evidently enough.
20:35 * asciilifeform currently making an efficient seekritshift, it is somewhat tricky
20:37 asciilifeform incidentally ( and luckily for asciilifeform ) asciilifeform is not left-handed : left-handers were savagely beaten on asciilifeform's home world
20:37 mircea_popescu at age 4 ?
20:37 asciilifeform aha.
20:37 mircea_popescu tsk
20:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721529 << ahahaha what is this bs, some other nobility elliot ?
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20:38 a111 Logged on 2017-10-05 19:55 BingoBoingo: ethnic enclaves, they never fail to put on a smile and admire everything Asian. Without the Asian industriousness and food, the Westerners will just be cave people just like their cave-dwelling ancestors not too long ago. One has to wonder why didn’t the Mongol overlords finish colonizing these Westerners and turned them into proper Asians. In the near future, the Chinese will just do that because the spineless lazy Westerners have gr
20:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i take it this custom was not alive in classical ro ?
20:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not really. they even tolerated left hand writing, to some degree.
20:39 * asciilifeform genuinely surprised
20:39 mircea_popescu bear in mind tho that i come from the civilised third of romania.
20:39 asciilifeform vlad's dukedom iirc ?
20:40 mircea_popescu no, vlad was voievode of the south, actually. this'd be the northwest.
20:40 asciilifeform oh hm.
20:40 mircea_popescu at the time, right and proper austrian lands.
20:41 mircea_popescu whereas most stories of romanian independenciality tend to come from 3rd 3rth, the north east.
20:41 mircea_popescu stephen and such.
20:42 asciilifeform interesting combo, boys fighting over meat in soup, but left-handing -- tolerated
20:42 mircea_popescu which soup is this ?
20:43 asciilifeform hm could've sworn it was in l0gz
20:43 asciilifeform alluded to in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615576 but iirc was in a trilema piece
20:43 a111 Logged on 2017-02-19 16:12 mircea_popescu: (the source was 80s dispute wrt to general public's apparent bottomless appetite for purchasing luxury goods -- in eastern communism this includes meat, washing machines, electricity, etc -- for which they won't even have the fucking decency to pay in hard currency, but aim to use the worthless reminbo internal scrip)
20:44 asciilifeform where girls in mircea_popescu's school would beg him for meat or how did it go
20:44 asciilifeform did i dream this?
20:44 mircea_popescu boys fought for the proper cut of bread (ie, the end bit, for some reason, was the only proper bit). but the last time communal eating was common was just about kindergarten
20:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform oh, yeah, but teh story was subtly different.
20:45 mircea_popescu such as -- 4yos ; girls not boys ; mostly me being an uppity snot. that sorta thing.
20:47 asciilifeform this piece was memorable, because at no point was meat any kind of luxury for asciilifeform & co.
20:49 mircea_popescu pretty much all common man could have for the asking wo9uld be dog food parts, lower chicken legs, necks, that sorta thing.
20:49 mircea_popescu this, throughout 80s.
20:50 asciilifeform nuts.
20:50 mircea_popescu romania had a plan!
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
21:58 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/nateeee/ << Trilema - Nateeee
~ 44 minutes ~
22:42 asciilifeform in other lulz, http://archive.is/wskHt
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22:43 asciilifeform d00d evidently did his homework.
22:47 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform pretty sure that's BingoBoingo o no wait, was it cazalla's good friend ? << He was the cheif jizz mopper cazalla and self cut teeth on
22:48 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> ran a fake miner farm scam fore a while in iirc 2013 << Perhaps something that early but mostly 2014 thing. Complete collapse happened between Xmas and New Years
22:49 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1721569 << random response to whiny barangs
22:49 a111 Logged on 2017-10-06 00:38 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721529 << ahahaha what is this bs, some other nobility elliot ?
22:53 BingoBoingo In other 12 hour sagas "The remains of a possible fetus were discovered by a custodian Wednesday in the bathroom of Wirth-Parks Middle School in Cahokia. The coroner arrived at the scene shortly after 8:30 p.m. and carried a small, covered box into the school." << "‘Fetal remains’ found in school bathroom actually a used feminine hygiene pad"
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~ 29 minutes ~
23:22 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: what's a barang ?
23:28 BingoBoingo Foreigner, in a language which apparently features a high degree of mutual intelligibility in its region
23:28 asciilifeform aaah gaijin
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