Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-09-19 | 2017-09-21 → ↓
00:01 BingoBoingo The Seattle mayor is the pedosexual
00:01 BingoBoingo The jew media is the jew media
00:02 BingoBoingo and the discussion is over the same qntra piece, submitted to the alt-Reddit with the same title to samely title /conspiracy
00:03 mircea_popescu oh i c
00:03 BingoBoingo Twas an experiment
00:04 mircea_popescu so basically reddit sucks at everything, including its purported purpose in life ?
00:04 mircea_popescu i suck at being surprised.
00:05 BingoBoingo lol, yes
00:12 BingoBoingo http://archive.is/N0GwT
00:12 BingoBoingo Fat bob killed fat bob
00:16 BingoBoingo Don't be a murderer, Don't be fat bob
00:19 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716033 << 50/50 between that and people thinking germ injection is fancy
00:19 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 02:47 mircea_popescu: soo, given the "cultured milk" yoghurt bs these days, i wonder what % of us population's entire exposure to that concept is in that context, and as a result has come to believe "cultured" means you know, you've had some germs injected or something.
~ 38 minutes ~
00:57 ben_vulpes "i'm cultured, i had a stool transplant!"
~ 36 minutes ~
01:34 ben_vulpes http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-9-14#205675 << i have a line open to "UESTC" in chengdu, i'll keep y'all in the loop
01:34 mimisbrunnr Logged on 2017-09-14 23:59 mircea_popescu: nope.
~ 18 minutes ~
01:52 mircea_popescu what\s an uestc
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
02:56 BingoBoingo lol, a "part of evolution": https://archive.is/jP8gb
~ 23 minutes ~
03:19 BingoBoingo https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/19/controversy-over-paper-favor-colonialism-sparks-calls-retraction
03:20 BingoBoingo “Anticolonialism ravaged countries as nationalist elites mobilized illiterate populations with appeals to destroy the market economies, pluralistic and constitutional polities, and rational policy processes of European colonizers.”
~ 1 hours 21 minutes ~
04:41 phf lobbesbotapocalypse
04:55 mircea_popescu damn.
04:57 mircea_popescu lobbes srsly now...
04:58 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo check out the libertards stealing the having stolen !
04:59 mircea_popescu yes "anticolonialism" was bullshit, but not because it destroyed a supposed rational approach of the colonisers. it was bullshit because it exactly mirrored "civil rights" at home, ie was driven by INTERnationalistic, socialist elite-wannabes.
~ 15 minutes ~
05:15 shinohai !~later tell lobbes You're gonna hafta to tell me the story of this one over a beer one day. [~]D
05:15 jhvh1 shinohai: Error: "~" is not a valid command.
05:15 shinohai O.o
05:19 phf bots are rebelling
05:19 shinohai !~ticker --market all
05:19 jhvh1 shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3938.0, vol: 12310.83273439 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3940.9, vol: 39054.57980368 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3810.105, vol: 1136.08650000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3944.0, vol: 6641.65517819 | Volume-weighted last average: 3938.13202592
05:20 mircea_popescu the singularitits!
05:20 shinohai It must be phf .... same exact command worked in my private chan xD
~ 5 hours 3 minutes ~
10:23 mod6 mornin'
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
11:38 ben_vulpes !~later tell mircea_popescu "university of electronic science and technology of china"
11:38 jhvh1 ben_vulpes: The operation succeeded.
~ 46 minutes ~
12:25 asciilifeform in other noose, ACHTUNG, panzers, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/BAjEK/?raw=true << 27.2 sec (4096b modexp)
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12:26 asciilifeform ^ no barrett yet. and there is still room for polish in barrettless variant, there is still a great deal of avoidable shifting and subtraction of guaranteed-empty words in FZ_Mod ( exercise for alert reader, to see where ! )
12:27 asciilifeform alert reader will also notice that FZ_Mod is now ok with half-width divisors, eliminating the copying in FZ_Mod_Mul and FZ_Mod_Square .
12:27 asciilifeform all of this - naturally - remains properly constantspacetime and unrollable.
12:27 * mod6 looks
12:29 asciilifeform ultimately it would make sense to use barrett reduction but currently i am not satisfied with the proof that it converges ( for some reason, every statement of this proof that i could find, seems to exclude reduction by powers of 2, and i do not yet understand why )
12:30 asciilifeform with barrett, modexp should go back to below-1sec @ 4096b .
12:30 asciilifeform but i will need an ironclad proof that it worx for ALL possible inputs.
12:31 asciilifeform ( the 'corrector' at the end of barrett will have to go through a mux, and fire a fixed # of times, and gotta prove that this-many and no-greater suffices. )
12:35 asciilifeform barrett reduction >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/barrett_1986.pdf << 1333337 w4r3z . yes, pdf, it's the original 1986 article, scan.
12:35 asciilifeform i ain't linking to pediwikian bowdlerizations , and there is no other source afaik .
12:44 asciilifeform ( hint re FZ_Mod : notice that the first Bitness shift-lefts are really single-word; and same is true of the subtraction, and of the mux; the next Bitness ditto and ditto -- are really 2-word ops; and so on. )
12:47 asciilifeform it isn't actually necessary to touch the entire R for the first Bitness*(RemainderWordness-1) (on 64-bit box, and for the 4096b example, that's 64*63 == 4032 ) shots of the inner loop !
12:48 asciilifeform there are a total of Bitness * DividendWordness cycles , in this example 64*128 == 8192
12:49 asciilifeform ( ...handwaves!1!11!... ) this sums to a potential 25% saving of clock , if finessed.
12:49 asciilifeform ( why not 50%? exercise ! )
~ 2 hours 15 minutes ~
15:05 asciilifeform bonus lul: https://archive.is/tK1o1 << list of public catastrophic bugs in bigint libs . bonus-2 : compiled by the perpetrators of mit's attempt at faux-ffa ( won't link separately, it's a megalith of mechanical 'proof' crapolade )
15:08 asciilifeform !!up TomServo
15:08 deedbot TomServo voiced for 30 minutes.
15:09 TomServo Ahoy, just wanted to pass this along: https://keccak.team/2017/not_arx.html
15:09 TomServo archive.is seems to be struggling with it.
15:10 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/s0ZSW/?raw=true << plain txt
15:16 asciilifeform TomServo: there is no scientific basis for the strength of ANY published hash algo whatsoever.
15:16 TomServo asciilifeform: I recall you mentioning this.
15:16 asciilifeform ( plenty of known basis for ~weaknesses~ of various . the absence of which, in any particular case, has NO bearing on above. )
15:18 asciilifeform and imho there is a serious problem with 'not ARX' in linked piece : omitting additions makes the hash ~considerably~ nsa-friendlier : it is easier to implement xor/and/not/shift on, e.g., optical computer, when you don't need addition (and ergo carries)
15:19 ben_vulpes and as the keccacteams mention, little incentive for cryptoacademia to formalize how ARXceteras might fall over. hard work with little guarantee of payout apparently terrible strategy in a world of publishorperish + everyone pretends to ignore that none of the academics ever bothered to do the hard work of an actual ffa, preferring instead cheap outs like leaky tables
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15:19 mircea_popescu while the carry property of addition is cryptographically valuable, it'd be better to use a general transform with bit coda instead.
15:19 asciilifeform depends 'better' for whom.
15:20 mircea_popescu consider something like mp's generalized addition : the sum of two numbers flips a bit if and only if one of them is prime.
15:20 mircea_popescu there's a whole class of generalizations that can be done in this same vein.
15:20 mircea_popescu addition is "and you flip a bit if and only if the digits overflow the mod", but this is historical accident.
15:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: anything involving 'isprime()' during everyday life is either a table lookup (leaks!) or miller-rabin (slow as fuck, temptation to cut iterations and introduce eggog)
15:22 mircea_popescu anyway, since examples work best : 763 mp+ 229 => 3 + 9 = 12 ie 2, 6 + 2 = 8 + 1 carry, 7 + 2 = 9 + 1 carry = 0 so finally = 82
15:22 asciilifeform and incidentally i dun have a nonleaking miller-rabin yet, need nonleaking gcd ( have on paper, but not in ffa yet )
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15:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform per digit tho
15:22 asciilifeform then it'll be a table
15:22 mircea_popescu just illustrating the concept.
15:23 asciilifeform i'd prefer a macroscale numbertheoretical hash, even one that explicitly stands on strength of, e.g., rsa, to the currently extant soup.
15:24 mircea_popescu i was not proceding towards a purpose! but it is worth pointing out that the addition understood in terms of "sum+bit diddle" can readily be extended ; and probably should be.
15:25 lobbes fuck. I apologize for lobbesbot's join/part spam lately. no idea wtf is happening. taking him out of chan for time-being...
15:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lookx to me like your addition dun commute ( or associate... )
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15:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform indeed not.
15:26 asciilifeform does it even work in a ring
15:26 mircea_popescu um. it does commute, 763 mp+ 229 = 229 mp+ 763 = 82.
15:26 mircea_popescu association it does not tho.
15:26 asciilifeform commutes yea
15:27 mircea_popescu and the whole point was to break out of ring.
15:27 asciilifeform there's usefulbreak and gutsalloverthefloor break
15:27 mircea_popescu useful for whom ?
15:27 asciilifeform i won't say yet which it is
15:27 mircea_popescu right.
15:28 mircea_popescu i also fucked it up because 9 is not prime so it should have carried the 1
15:28 asciilifeform incidentally iirc we did the proof of 'if there is a good hash, there is a good blockcipher, and vice-versa'
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15:28 mircea_popescu let's do this fucking properly.
15:29 mircea_popescu 763 mp+ 229 => 3 + 9 = 2 + 1 carry. 6 + 2 = 8 (+1 carry = 9) + 1 carry, 7 + 2 = 9 + 1 carry = 0 so finally = 92
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15:29 asciilifeform ( where 'good' is 'proof of difficulty of randomly-generated case is possible' )
15:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i seem to unspecifically recall this
15:30 asciilifeform it's a triviality: if you have 1 , you can make the other out of it with ~no effort
15:31 shinohai lobbes: There are like 30 instances of it over in #eulora
15:31 mircea_popescu o god yeah.
15:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716136 << the truth of the matter is that no fiat pretend sovereign CAN AFFORD to do such work. because they are poor. it's like asking why easter islandians didn't build pyramids.
15:34 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 19:19 ben_vulpes: and as the keccacteams mention, little incentive for cryptoacademia to formalize how ARXceteras might fall over. hard work with little guarantee of payout apparently terrible strategy in a world of publishorperish + everyone pretends to ignore that none of the academics ever bothered to do the hard work of an actual ffa, preferring instead cheap outs like leaky tables
15:34 mircea_popescu wtf out of, tree trunks ?
15:35 asciilifeform >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434 << oblig
15:35 a111 Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
15:35 asciilifeform folx with 'infinite' resources, turns out, can't afford some very basic things.
15:36 mircea_popescu anyway, the above example of "alt-addition" is mostly based on the happenstance that in base 10, the set of digits that are also prime is {1,2, 3, 5, 7} and the set of digits that are not prime is {0, 4, 6, 8, 9} ie it just so happens to be a perfectly balanced split.
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15:36 mircea_popescu in other bases that don't so even split, this is not crypto-valuable because you would get induced lean.
15:37 asciilifeform it ain't as if you're ever getting a prime from prime+prime, tho
15:37 mircea_popescu really ?
15:37 asciilifeform excluding 2
15:37 mircea_popescu !~calc 1+2
15:37 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 1+2 = 3
15:37 asciilifeform 2 ain't a real prime!1111!wasjustputtherebythegodstofuckus
15:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no but that's the point, base 10 is superbly built wrt primeness.
15:40 mircea_popescu and in other ways and means, i just bought a pile of primo cigars, presidents and romeo y juliets and whatnot at this... cathouse, basically.
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15:44 asciilifeform hilariously, asciilifeform has a 'romeo&juliet' cigar tube from 1970s
15:44 asciilifeform inherited from grandfather's 'weird shit from foreign lands' box
15:45 mircea_popescu ha!
15:45 asciilifeform 20 yrs ago it still had the smell. ( not today )
15:45 mircea_popescu they're pretty good.
15:45 mircea_popescu but yeah, should be smoked within the same decade they're rolled. tobacco dun exactly age in this extended sense
15:46 asciilifeform oh it was empty tube
15:46 mircea_popescu oh
15:46 mircea_popescu lel. good for granpa then.
15:46 asciilifeform but if thing tasted as good as the tube smelled!
15:46 * asciilifeform believes
15:46 mircea_popescu i suppose tube makes ok trainer dildo for 16yo debutante
15:46 mircea_popescu "my first anal stretch"
15:46 asciilifeform yea it is EXACTLY that shape
15:46 mircea_popescu nooo ?
15:47 asciilifeform aluminum thing
15:47 phf asciilifeform: fyi they sell them within i suspect no more than half hour from you
15:47 mircea_popescu they're not expensive either, two for a benjie or somesuch
15:48 asciilifeform for some reason i thought there were no ( at least Officially ) cuban cigars in usa
15:48 mircea_popescu didn't obama win the cigar nobel prize ?
15:49 asciilifeform ( famously, kennedy bought entire railroad car right before signing the ban )
15:49 mircea_popescu btw, i take it everyone has played knight's bounty ? as the crowning accomplishment of those eastern orc lands ?
15:50 * asciilifeform has not
15:50 mircea_popescu nfw ?!
15:50 phf i suspect it postdates asciilifeform's gaming years
15:50 asciilifeform it does
15:51 asciilifeform asciilifeform's brother played it tho.
15:51 asciilifeform so i know of it.
15:51 mircea_popescu i thought he was older
15:51 asciilifeform he is.
15:51 asciilifeform but he dun have as many theorems.
15:52 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716165 <-- I r confused. if 3 + 9 = 2 (+1 carry, because of primality of 3), then isn't the result 93?
15:52 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 19:29 mircea_popescu: 763 mp+ 229 => 3 + 9 = 2 + 1 carry. 6 + 2 = 8 (+1 carry = 9) + 1 carry, 7 + 2 = 9 + 1 carry = 0 so finally = 92
15:52 mircea_popescu spyked see lower down
15:53 mircea_popescu o wait. why would it be 3 when 3 + 9 = 2 ?
15:54 * spyked rereads the definition of mp prime-addition
15:54 mircea_popescu in no case would the carry alter the current decimal level.
15:56 spyked oh. confusion is resolved then
15:57 spyked will have to work out a few more examples on paper.
15:57 mircea_popescu can come up with a few mp-extended additions of your own, and for that money even formulate a general theory of addition extension in this sense,
15:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i've been thinking about sending ffa , when finished, as an article into the saecular derps' 'cryptology journals', strictly for the lulz of getting their reject barf , and then posting, a la al schwartz
15:58 mircea_popescu with the perhaps eventual result of actually producing a well grounded numeric-theoretic notion of what alf wanted, ie a fucking hash already
15:58 mircea_popescu that's not made out of flour and spit like it's fucking africa.
15:58 asciilifeform will be interesting if any reply, considering how the thing obsoletes half the idiocy they currently print
15:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this works splendidly for blog article imo
15:58 asciilifeform well naturally whole thing is to be an article.
15:59 asciilifeform ( really a lengthy .txt , but can be formatted however wanted )
16:03 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716177 <-- why 1? don't want to start a debate on that. dunno if debate was ever settled by mathematicians, but I learned in school that primes are strictly > 1
16:03 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 19:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, the above example of "alt-addition" is mostly based on the happenstance that in base 10, the set of digits that are also prime is {1,2, 3, 5, 7} and the set of digits that are not prime is {0, 4, 6, 8, 9} ie it just so happens to be a perfectly balanced split.
16:03 mircea_popescu spyked "a prime number is one which is divisible by only itself and the meter".
16:03 mircea_popescu 1 fits this, 0 does not.
16:14 spyked mircea_popescu, yeha, but maths ppl I read/talked to "by convenience" define prime as "a number greater than 1 which is divisible ..." the reason escapes me. and as usual, online sources are shit.
16:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if 1 gets to be a prime, you then throw out the conventional def of prime, because now you have a prime that divides other primes unequal to itself
16:24 asciilifeform and this is only the beginning of the ugh
16:25 mircea_popescu that's a subsidiary and unimportant property.
16:25 asciilifeform ahahahahaha
16:25 mircea_popescu the definition of prime is as quoted, what more is needed here ? 1 is divisible by only itself and the unit [of measure].
16:27 asciilifeform how about the 'every int has unique prime factorization' item ?
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16:27 mircea_popescu it does. "unit terms are ignored"
16:27 asciilifeform why not ignore by '1 ain't a prime', lol
16:27 mircea_popescu because you gotta add the spit-fix at the right juncture.
16:28 asciilifeform wtf is even the point of talking about primes if you ALWAYS gotta say 'but not 1'
16:28 mircea_popescu hey.
16:28 mircea_popescu your convenience is not my concern.
16:29 asciilifeform go ahead an' bolt whatever you like to ~your~ kalash, hey.
16:29 asciilifeform just don't be surprised when nobody else wants to.
16:29 mircea_popescu alrighty then!!1
16:29 mircea_popescu so far i'd be surprised if anyone seriouslty didn't want to ; the argument as presented seems sufficiently overabundant!
16:38 spyked lulz!
16:39 mircea_popescu heck, for the same money also exclude 2, and perhaps 3 because son of numbers previously hit by bill of numeric attainder.
16:39 mircea_popescu "primes gotta have two digits"
~ 16 minutes ~
16:55 lobbes in other news, lobbesbotpocalypse is over. full details here: http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-09-20.log.html#t20:06:34
16:55 lobbes I assume IP had to be banned. I'll leave it up to the court whether or not to unban. bot's only function here was quoting logs.minigame.bz anyhow
16:56 mircea_popescu lobbes didja give the code a once over for the purpose of not ending up with this again ?
16:57 lobbes I'm gonna look into shinohai's suggestion of checking the PID rather than grepping for name. Let's just leave it in #eulora for now and I'll get back once I dig deeper later tonight/this week
16:57 mircea_popescu kk
16:57 lobbes for the meantime, auctions will work over there an' such
16:57 mircea_popescu aite.
16:57 trinque eh lobbes that sounds really damned hairy.
16:57 lobbes yeah
16:58 trinque look into "runit"
16:58 trinque grepping for logs to restart is nuts
16:58 mircea_popescu runit pretty much looks by pid neh ?
16:58 trinque no, it has a supervisor process that spawns your thing, monitors state, respawns if dead
16:59 trinque and it's the lightest weight item that does so, that I've found
16:59 mircea_popescu but "monitors state" by pid
17:00 trinque sure, it knows the PID of its own child process
17:00 mircea_popescu does it do moar monitoring than "is PID so and so still there" ?
17:07 trinque nah, but gives you a logging facility and choice of what happens when child process is gone
17:07 trinque which can be other than "thrash-loop until operator notices"
17:08 trinque http://smarden.org/runit/runsv.8.html << stuff the supervisor does
17:09 * lobbes reads
17:10 trinque and sure, could bash script a loop that does exactly what you want, and then bash script your next service too. people do that. and then they generalize out the utils, and have a process manager of their own.
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17:12 asciilifeform hey trinque didja ever have time and write that piece re 'sane http replacement' ?
17:12 asciilifeform from thread some month ago
17:12 trinque it's on teh stack
17:12 asciilifeform aite
17:13 trinque been cranking on being able to cut transactions on an airgap machine with only trb+deps
17:13 asciilifeform !!up apeloyee
17:13 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
17:13 asciilifeform trinque: neato
17:14 lobbes re this monitoring thing: seems like the key either way is to have a parent process that spawns the child process, rather than a disconnected process monitoring whatever
17:15 mircea_popescu trinque no argument
17:15 mircea_popescu lobbes yes, that'd be an improvement conceptually/
17:15 asciilifeform apeloyee: ...hello?
17:16 * trinque doesn't oppose a guy hand-carving his own thing at all, either.
17:16 apeloyee asciilifeform: how about a "pediwikian bowdlerization of barrett" after all (don't truncate multiply results)? This would be simpler (but slower)
17:16 trinque anyhow got payments bot to ship, which while running long is forcing me to develop sane processes around airgapped trb use
17:16 asciilifeform apeloyee: please elaborate
17:17 trinque then got the houston flood piece and hypertext-dht piece to write
17:17 mircea_popescu trinque you ever saw "la zizanie", possibly de funes' best piece ?
17:17 asciilifeform apeloyee: my principal problem with barrett is that i don't have a proof that it works with 3 or fewer corrective-subtractions for ALL possible a,b,m in a*b mod m
17:17 asciilifeform of given bitness
17:18 trinque mircea_popescu: haven't
17:18 apeloyee asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Eu9Fd/?raw=true
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17:19 mircea_popescu tl;dr : guy is practically a gremlin, dedicated and ~meaningfully so~ industrialist, married to a credible "woman's job" a la francaise. they end up quarreling domestically when he destroys her greenhouse to extend his factory ; she runs for mayor against him (he used to own unopposed). his platform is "en premier place, le plein emploi ; en seconde, le plein emploi ; e finalment : LE PLEN EMPLOI!"
17:19 asciilifeform ty apeloyee , i will read .
17:19 mircea_popescu ie, his whole platform is "full employment".
17:19 mircea_popescu teh republic built the man's dream!
17:20 trinque heh, I will be sure to push that one onto the appropriate stack
17:21 trinque republic's got all sorts of highly enjoyable work.
17:21 mircea_popescu really great flick to watch with girl ; motivate her to learn french.
17:21 trinque got one that speaks it, actually
17:21 trinque so she can tutor me with it
17:21 mircea_popescu then must do
17:25 apeloyee asciilifeform: is it intended that ffa doesn't have a shift that doesn't leak the upper bits of shift amount (via access pattern)?
17:25 asciilifeform apeloyee: shift amounts are not secret
17:25 asciilifeform in any ffa routine
17:25 asciilifeform they depend strictly on which op ( which is not secret ) and the ffawidth ( also not secret )
17:25 apeloyee so far yes. have you given up on newton-raphson?
17:26 asciilifeform apeloyee: yes because for guarantee of convergence you need MASSIVE ( afaik, at least 4x the ffawidth ) bitness
17:27 asciilifeform apeloyee: what do you see as its advantage, vs barrett ?
17:27 asciilifeform because as far as i can see, it has all of the same problems, but more so
17:27 apeloyee you gotta compute the reciprocal for barrett's somehow.
17:28 asciilifeform that's an ordinary knuthian div
17:28 asciilifeform and it happens once per program boot
17:28 asciilifeform ( when ffa width is determined )
17:28 apeloyee per modulus?
17:28 asciilifeform ah yeah per modulus
17:28 asciilifeform still 1 knuthian div, vs the 8192 i have now (in the example)
17:30 asciilifeform the cost of 1 knuthian div is negligible
17:31 apeloyee true, but I thought you wanted a universally-fast reduction?
17:31 asciilifeform ( and when we do rsa, can store the reciprocal in the key, there's no particular reason to compute it every time )
17:31 apeloyee (fast even for fresh moduli)
17:31 asciilifeform apeloyee: i want the fastest possible universal reduction that works in fixed spacetime and provably so
17:31 asciilifeform if that's barrett, it'll be barrett. if it's knuthian, will be knuthian. if newtonian -- newtonian. in no case it will be montgomery, say, or any other non-universal one.
17:32 mircea_popescu the stored reciprocal is actually a good idea.
17:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: barrett's idea, notmine
17:32 mircea_popescu aha.
17:37 asciilifeform incidentally if apeloyee or anybody else knows how to make a 1..ffabitness shifter that doesn't leak the shift amount, on ordinary pc, plz post.
17:37 asciilifeform afaik this cannot be done without a physical barrel shifter of the given bitness.
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17:39 asciilifeform apeloyee: also if you know how to newton-raphson converge without ANY normalization ANYWHERE, plz to post.
17:39 asciilifeform ( normalization LOOKS AT SECRET BITS and therefore is forbidden anywhere in ffa for any reason )
17:40 asciilifeform if it can't be written down without any conditional (e.g. 'if' ) statements, and also -- for a given bitness -- unrolled into writing without ANY loops -- it is not permissible routine for ffa.
17:50 asciilifeform re shifter, on second thought you COULD shift bitness-1 (e.g. 4095 ) times and then mux EVERY TIME YOU SHIFT but omfg.
17:50 asciilifeform geological runtime.
17:54 asciilifeform e.g., N is a number to shift, Q is shift amt, R is result, S = l_shift(N, 1); mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - 1)); S = l_shift(N, 1); mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - 2)); ...... mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - (width-1)))
↖ ↖
17:54 asciilifeform fortunately we don't actually need any such thing in ffa. none of the algos require shifting by a seekrit bitness.
18:03 apeloyee asciilifeform: and if you think a little more, you'll notice that log2(bitness) shifts (by wordwidth, wordwidth*2, wordwidth*4 ... ) and muxes suffice. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hkkYj/?raw=true
18:04 apeloyee (assuming mux doesn't leak - who's to prevent intel from "optimizing" it?)
18:04 apeloyee apologies for the sad parody of pseudocode.
18:07 asciilifeform apeloyee: i'd be curious to hear how intel will 'optimize' xor.
↖
18:08 asciilifeform and holy fuck you are COUNTING ZEROES
18:08 apeloyee why not?
18:08 asciilifeform what part of 'can't branch on bits' was hard to understand ?
18:08 apeloyee it doesn't.
18:08 * asciilifeform reads again
18:09 mircea_popescu this is pretty entertaining.
18:09 asciilifeform this worx. but seems to reduce to a more complicated and non-unrolled version of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716343
↖
18:09 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 21:54 asciilifeform: e.g., N is a number to shift, Q is shift amt, R is result, S = l_shift(N, 1); mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - 1)); S = l_shift(N, 1); mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - 2)); ...... mux(S, R, R, iszero(Q - (width-1)))
18:09 mircea_popescu !!rated apeloyee
18:09 deedbot mircea_popescu has not rated apeloyee.
18:09 mircea_popescu !!rate apeloyee 1 Makes alf re-read.
18:09 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LNTYv/?raw=true
18:09 asciilifeform !!rated apeloyee
18:09 deedbot asciilifeform rated apeloyee 1 at 2017/09/13 18:25:08 << barrett reductionist
18:09 asciilifeform lol
18:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's good for you!
18:10 mircea_popescu !!v E230A120EE824FE2D91331DA63D521238DC7DC2A1A66DEAB89CEE881798ABA92
18:10 deedbot mircea_popescu rated apeloyee 1 << Makes alf re-read.
18:10 apeloyee asciilifeform: the paste contains TWO procedures: CLZ and secret shift. together they solve the normalization problem
18:11 apeloyee but they are separate things
18:11 asciilifeform i can say immediately that if you 'secret shift' every time you want to modulus, you will take at least same number of steps as knuthian division.
18:11 asciilifeform ( which likewise shifts for the entire bitness, every time )
18:11 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716355 << yours is O(bitness), mine is O(log(bitness))
18:11 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 22:09 asciilifeform: this worx. but seems to reduce to a more complicated and non-unrolled version of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716343
18:12 apeloyee shift i mean
18:12 apeloyee CLZ is of course O(N)
18:12 asciilifeform mine will also be log(bitness) if you shift(N, 1) , ... 2, ... 4 and mux appropriately, lol
18:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform he squeezed a little juice out of the rock, check him out.
18:12 asciilifeform aha massive points for effort
18:14 asciilifeform this is still massively moar complicated than barrett
18:15 asciilifeform even if you could newtoniate constantspacetimefully with it
18:15 asciilifeform now you gotta normalize, denormalize, and proof that it cannot under any conceivable circumstance fail or take variant time
18:15 asciilifeform *prove
18:16 asciilifeform apeloyee: try and rewrite without the 'while' loop
18:24 * asciilifeform brb, meat
18:26 * BingoBoingo wonder what part of Chicom death knell is responsible for these fucking slow blocks
18:35 apeloyee asciilifeform: which while loop? in CLZ or secretshift?
↖
18:38 shinohai !!up mafeketty
18:38 deedbot mafeketty voiced for 30 minutes.
18:38 shinohai mircea_popescu: are you available for
18:38 shinohai !~tits
18:38 jhvh1 ( . Y . ) http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ ( . Y . )
18:38 shinohai ?
18:49 apeloyee I don't understand how to do classical barrett without CLZ on modulus
↖
18:50 apeloyee hence I posted it. plus it'd be useful for newton (if fast division is deemed necessary for some as-yet-unknown reason)
18:53 apeloyee while loop in secretshift does a number of iterations dependent only on ffa number width and word width, so can be unrolled if those are known
18:55 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
18:55 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3944.91, vol: 10974.14178624 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3954.1, vol: 30533.19374449 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3840.525, vol: 931.28590000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3950.0, vol: 4856.31920483 | Volume-weighted last average: 3949.31018391
18:58 mircea_popescu shinohai sure.
18:59 mircea_popescu nice intro lol.
19:00 shinohai mircea_popescu: mafeketty wishes to be added to thy collection.
19:00 mircea_popescu mafeketty b581b0a2 plox.
19:03 * shinohai eagerly awaits these tits ....
19:03 mircea_popescu are they good tits ?
19:05 apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716348 << from my Intel PR dept. emulator: "New Intel (R) NSAInside Energy saver(TM) processor technology optimizes your branchless code to avoid redundant operations delivering unparalled power savings..."
↖
19:05 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 22:07 asciilifeform: apeloyee: i'd be curious to hear how intel will 'optimize' xor.
19:06 shinohai I dunno, have not seen them yet
19:07 mircea_popescu aite
19:09 shinohai !!up mafeketty
19:09 deedbot mafeketty voiced for 30 minutes.
19:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716385 << while S1 < K
19:10 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 22:35 apeloyee: asciilifeform: which while loop? in CLZ or secretshift?
19:10 mafeketty https://imgur./a/tY0I8
19:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716392 << i don't see what part of barrett wants to know leadingzero count
19:10 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 22:49 apeloyee: I don't understand how to do classical barrett without CLZ on modulus
19:11 shinohai mafeketty: hiciste mal es asi: https://imgur.com/a/tYOI8
19:11 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716403 << by definition monkey business with instruction timings is ~detectable~. but the other idea is, a proper ffa is very easy to fpgaize/siliconize.
19:11 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 23:05 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716348 << from my Intel PR dept. emulator: "New Intel (R) NSAInside Energy saver(TM) processor technology optimizes your branchless code to avoid redundant operations delivering unparalled power savings..."
19:11 mircea_popescu mafeketty there's nothing there.
19:11 * shinohai figured it out
19:12 mafeketty https://imgur.com/a/tY0I8
19:12 shinohai mafeketty: olvidaste `.com`
19:12 shinohai Are you trying to type these links by hand?
19:12 apeloyee longmod procedure in linked pdf says "2^b < m <2^(b+1)" on page 9
↖
19:12 mircea_popescu a hey, there it is.
19:12 mircea_popescu mafeketty address ?
19:13 mafeketty https://imgur.com/a/tYOI8
19:13 mircea_popescu mafeketty yes, that part is fine. now, where do you want the bitcents sent ? what's your bitcoin address ?
19:14 mircea_popescu shinohai considering how bubbly she looks in her pics, she's shockingly quiet verbally huh ?
19:15 mafeketty preguntale shinohai mi direccion de bitcoin
19:15 shinohai She is typing all this shit manually .... keeps sending me messages lol
19:15 shinohai mircea_popescu: 136w5Goh345kTdhTUDDzh3jBUiCFHM3hTn
19:15 mircea_popescu well, just as long as she doesn't get dropped.
19:15 shinohai appears to be it. I told her you are not responsible if it goes to bad addy
19:15 mircea_popescu mafeketty is that right ? 136w5Goh345kTdhTUDDzh3jBUiCFHM3hTn esta correcto ?
19:15 mircea_popescu shinohai how would you know ?
19:16 shinohai I have a pic of her wallet! lol
19:16 shinohai xd
19:16 mircea_popescu lol
19:16 mircea_popescu mafeketty yo hablo espanol tambien, no se verguenzosa.
19:16 mafeketty si mircea_popescu
19:16 shinohai Mandame fotos de tu llaves privados, por favor
19:17 mircea_popescu ahaha shut up
19:17 mircea_popescu mafeketty ok, te los mando. tarde un poco pero los va tener hoy.
19:18 mafeketty gracias
19:18 mafeketty muchas gracias amor
19:18 shinohai This has to be one of the most entertaining times I have ever translated en private.
19:19 mircea_popescu lol whyssat ?
19:19 shinohai First she sent me an email, saying one of her friends did this, and thought it was a scam.
19:19 mircea_popescu oh ?
19:19 shinohai Then I spent 15 minutes teaching her how to use irc
19:20 shinohai and also assuring her it wasnt a scam
19:20 mircea_popescu aha
19:20 shinohai "Well I see a lot of chicas ispanas there, so it must be legit" (translation mine)
19:20 mircea_popescu i imagine it must be pretty confusing, this brave new world.
19:21 mircea_popescu yeah, no chinese girl as of yet huh.
19:21 shinohai Get this, kiwi irc is blocked in her section of the country
19:21 mircea_popescu eh ?!
19:21 mircea_popescu what country is this
19:21 shinohai Colombia ... one of my other contacts gave her my email
19:22 mircea_popescu i'm guessing further cloudflare shenanigans ?
19:22 shinohai Likely ... when I sent her to plain web.freenode.net it worked fine
19:22 shinohai Guess I need to stand my old self kiwi instance back up
19:23 mircea_popescu ya
19:25 shinohai Now the Lord Baron Titsbare, because he feels bad for some random chick in 3rd world country, has to spend the next hour or so explaining how Bitcoin works to n00b.
19:25 shinohai The things I do for this Republic
19:26 mircea_popescu kik
19:28 shinohai But thank you mircea_popescu ... she may yet turn out to be yet another valuable contact I have met through your programme
19:30 mircea_popescu lol. you ever been to colombia even ?
19:30 asciilifeform !~later tell apeloyee http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716422 << this is what i've been trying to figure out re barrett : can it be made to work for ARBITRARY inputs , in constant spacetime
19:30 a111 Logged on 2017-09-20 23:12 apeloyee: longmod procedure in linked pdf says "2^b < m <2^(b+1)" on page 9
19:30 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
19:32 shinohai On advice from our esteemed Lordship, I only went to Alfonso Bonilla airport in Cali to pick up the Baroness ...
19:32 mircea_popescu o hey, you actually got a local gf out of the deal ?
19:33 shinohai Remember?
19:33 mircea_popescu dude THE THINGS YOU DO FOR THE REPUBLIC!
19:33 shinohai http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ilasxve.png
19:33 shinohai ^ that one
19:34 mircea_popescu pretty girl at that
19:34 mircea_popescu so she's been what, live in columbian gf for a few months nao ?
19:38 shinohai She came after we first met here, went back, then came back abt 2 months ago
19:38 mircea_popescu phf i hope you're taking notes lol
↖
19:39 mircea_popescu shinohai so does she work ? or is it more like domestic slavery arrangement ?
19:39 mircea_popescu o wait, i forgot. it is against the law in the united states for human female to work ie not be domestic slave.
19:42 shinohai Well, it is domestic slavery as much as she is not bound under usistan law ... only has travel visa
19:42 ben_vulpes wait i thought it was against the law for human female to be a domestic slave
19:43 shinohai Fuck the police
19:43 ben_vulpes labor pool must be as full of meat as possible, families kept in poverty paying for childcare
19:44 shinohai She had heard horror stories of life under Trumpreich and was afraid to return this last time
19:46 shinohai !~ticker --market all
19:46 jhvh1 shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3893.0, vol: 11511.21386026 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3903.9, vol: 32882.02535143 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3805.1522, vol: 953.12170000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3894.1, vol: 4783.74595599 | Volume-weighted last average: 3898.58439967
19:49 shinohai So evidently 0.02 BTC = ~215`000 COP now
19:53 mircea_popescu nb.
19:54 mircea_popescu shinohai perhaps point out to her that
19:54 mircea_popescu !~translate en to es "She had heard horror stories of life under Trumpreich and was afraid to return this last t"
19:54 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Había oído historias de terror de la vida bajo Trumpreich y tenía miedo de devolver esta última
19:55 shinohai TErrible translation
19:55 mircea_popescu not so terrible is it ?
19:56 mircea_popescu what'd you prefer, "vida sobre la opresion de trump" ?
19:56 shinohai Ella habia escuchado la historia de vida bajo el Trumpreich y tenia miedo regresar
19:56 mircea_popescu historias!
19:57 shinohai oido = an actual sound
19:57 shinohai escuchar = gossip
19:57 mircea_popescu stylistically defensible!
19:58 mod6 evenin'
19:58 asciilifeform ohai mod6
19:58 shinohai hola mod6 que hay de bueno
19:59 mod6 :] nm.
19:59 mod6 nice work with the tits & help thereof.
20:00 shinohai Well she is a bit chubby, but the titwork has been dry for a while.
20:02 shinohai I also publish for your amusement, the outtakes from her foto session https://imgur.com/a/WIHc1
20:04 * mod6 looks
20:07 ben_vulpes that one scar kinda looks like a t-rex
20:09 shinohai ben_vulpes I was just talking to her about the scars .... those things interest me.
20:09 mircea_popescu how'd she get them ?
20:10 shinohai Dice por un accidente del auto
20:10 mircea_popescu lotta that in central america.
20:10 shinohai fr .... When I was in Guatemala EVERY FUCKING DRIVER scared the shit out of me
20:11 shinohai Despite that, still wish I could go back
20:13 mod6 <+shinohai> Dice por un accidente del auto << dang, looks like it hurt.
20:17 shinohai Were I as rich as Sr. Popescu, every night I'd pay 0.02 BTC (adjusted for inflation) to hear these magnificent stories.
20:17 mircea_popescu heh, recall when 0.02 seemed too low ?
20:17 shinohai As such, I only hear them when asked to trasludar
20:19 shinohai 0,02 has a nice ring to it though ... 0.01 cada teta
20:19 shinohai BRING YOUR HALF ITS TO #trilema
20:20 shinohai *tits
20:23 shinohai I can only think that my ancestors rescued the god of jugs and were rewarded with a surfeit of tits
~ 1 hours 53 minutes ~
22:16 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/kings-bounty-a-knights-tale/ << Trilema - King's Bounty - A Knight's Tale
↖
22:20 shinohai Te saludo mircea_popescu ...caballero
~ 1 hours 30 minutes ~
23:51 BingoBoingo Apparently "sluggish schizophrenia" is now USSA's way of handling problems? https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/2140102/10552881
23:51 BingoBoingo Naturally diagnosed by Social Mediaists
↖
23:54 trinque average internet dungbeetle doesn't have enough read-buffer for your meme-ropes
23:59 BingoBoingo Maybe they should try caching the ropes of memen in their butts?
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