#trilema | 2017-09-30

pest - 1d 8h
trilema - 1026d

Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-09-29 | 2017-10-01 → ↓

00:01	BingoBoingo	!!Up jawbone
00:01	deedbot	jawbone voiced for 30 minutes.
00:12	mircea_popescu	and in other special purpose instruments, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHtWSNnXEw
		~ 16 minutes ~
00:29	mod6	interesting instrument there
		~ 6 hours 59 minutes ~
07:28	davout	neat, have any vids where it's actually played?
		~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~
09:03	mircea_popescu	davout for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ50T-QBSg0
09:05	mircea_popescu	known as "vioara cu goarna" in romanian (higheghe cu tolcer in local dialect ; stroh violin in other local dialect) if you want to look it up yourself. it's the chosen / symbolic instrument of bihor country in transylvania, but widely used in teh nortern countries (of romania).
09:05	mircea_popescu	and yes django'd have conceivably loved it, it's specifically toned for his interests.
09:07	mircea_popescu	basically it's a violin using a metal plate as a mechanical amplifier. early 1900s idea.
09:07	davout	this is intensely cool
09:08	mircea_popescu	competent romanians will tell you the instrument's required in serious gypsy band yes.
09:13	davout	check the mirror dudes out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635ljhj4guQ
09:14	mircea_popescu	hehe
09:14	mircea_popescu	that's a dood and his son actually.
09:14	mircea_popescu	(the principal limitation of the instrument is that the sound is directional. that's why the twin players is so tempting.)
		~ 37 minutes ~
09:52	mircea_popescu	and all this "forking" and "bitcoin cash" and "segwit" and "protocols" and "agreements" bullshit readily brings to mind the old age discussion of all the "alt" bitcoin flavours, back when the item was called doge and the idiots with delusions of self importance were called jackson palmer, kevin rose etc : http://trilema.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptib
09:52	mircea_popescu	le-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/
09:59	mircea_popescu	(dogegoin, which "still exists" has a "market cap" of whatever, >100mn, according to the websites printing arbitrary values next to text strings ; similarily myspace.com is worth $70 mn according to "Worth Of Web Calculator - World's #1 Website Value Calculator")
		~ 20 minutes ~
10:19	BingoBoingo	!~ticker --market all
10:19	jhvh1	BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4274.17, vol: 7485.08466905 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4306.2, vol: 24957.02007659 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4229.3316, vol: 406.48370000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 4290.1, vol: 3013.91999922 \| Volume-weighted last average: 4297.29049703
		~ 1 hours 33 minutes ~
11:53	asciilifeform	in other lulz, https://archive.is/GhTjl ( and elsewhere, e.g. https://archive.is/uvS7m ) >> 'Jose Lugo said the tall metal towers quickly appeared up after the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel tolls booths came down. “We don’t really know what’s the purpose of this,” he told Carlin. It’s a $100 million MTA project shrouded in secrecy, with 18 of them for tunnels and bridges. So what are they exactly? The MTA’s man in charge of the
11:53	asciilifeform	bridges and tunnels, Cedrick Fulton, dodged Carlin’s questions Wednesday. “I said no comment,” he said.'
11:56	asciilifeform	geometry in photo https://archive.is/uvS7m/6e8269aebe24e3f6332a9503b657b22213e71903.jpg suggests a http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-19#1302879
11:56	a111	Logged on 2015-10-19 21:14 assbot: NYPD caught using X-ray vans to search the public, refuses court order to release details \| ExtremeTech ... ( http://bit.ly/1PCA1cv )
11:58	asciilifeform	( and/or http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-01#1460181 , and naturally also simply money siphon, aka распил бюджета )
11:58	a111	Logged on 2016-05-01 16:43 asciilifeform: usg luuuuvs to know at the borders if you're pissing neutrons (note what price of helium on the market did in past 20 yrs. us dhs bought up most of it, for tubes)
12:04	mircea_popescu	i thought mta ran on public funds.
		↖
12:04	mircea_popescu	what do you mean "no comment" ?
		~ 56 minutes ~
13:01	mod6	how's it goin?
13:01	mircea_popescu	eagerly awaiting deedbot 's reemergence
13:02	mod6	nod
13:16	mod6	To close the loop here a bit, the vtron stuff I've been doing in ada is a lot faster now than it was -- just needed to get some better loop control.
13:17	mod6	Basically when working with Strings.Fixed I end up making arrays (of fixed size) of strings (of fixed size), need to use caution always to not continue to iterate if the string at a given index is filled with ' '.
13:18	mod6	Doing such, avoid use of the heap. And there is quite a bit of manipulation I have to do with the strings. So that adds some cost, because I'm basically doing the parsing on my own. I'm not using any weird 3rd party libs.
13:19	mod6	Anyway, there is some hope here perhaps -- got a long way to go.
13:20	mod6	The good news is I'm learning stuff.
13:21	mod6	!!up p0nziph0ne
13:21	deedbot	p0nziph0ne voiced for 30 minutes.
		~ 22 minutes ~
13:44	mod6	Another thing worth the mention is that my ada-vtron shells out to gpg - which adds some time as well. one thing I think that would help is if I could figure out how to capture the shell command output directly back into the application instead of having to write to a file, then read the file back into the program.
13:44	mod6	if anyone knows how to do this, let me know.
13:47	mod6	for example, I do a bunch of this in perl: @result = `gpg --bla --bla`; foreach(@result) { }
13:48	mod6	but as far as I can tell, there is no way to do that in ada. the general thing i've seen out on the web is that you must write the output of the shell command to a file, then read it back in.
13:49	mod6	anyway, this is all just experimental stuff. no worries.
		~ 15 minutes ~
14:04	asciilifeform	mod6: http://www.adacore.com/adaanswers/gems/gem-54/
14:07	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718648 << nsa, cia also 'run on public funds', lol
		↖
14:07	a111	Logged on 2017-09-30 16:04 mircea_popescu: i thought mta ran on public funds.
14:12	mod6	thanks alf!
14:12	asciilifeform	lemme know if it worx, mod6
14:12	mod6	i'd been avoiding using GNAT libs... maybe I shouldn't have been?
14:12	asciilifeform	( i have not personally tried )
14:13	asciilifeform	mod6: doing os-related cruft presents a choice b/w gnat libs and c callouts
14:13	asciilifeform	you will notice, for mmap i picked the latteer
14:13	asciilifeform	*latter
14:13	mod6	ya. i was looking at your stuff to sort of guide me a bit.
14:13	asciilifeform	because adacore's mmap lib is a massive pile of shit ( e.g. includes winblowzisms )
14:13	mod6	i'm strictly doing c callouts.
14:14	asciilifeform	the cost is, then you gotta make'em behave adaistically
14:14	asciilifeform	( i.e. no possibility of string fandango, etc )
14:14	mod6	but am flexible. my basic aim is to write the code, keep it as tight and functionally appropriate as possible, then tune it later.
14:15	mod6	<+asciilifeform> the cost is, then you gotta make'em behave adaistically << yeah, my approach now seems sane. might be a bit expensive tho. so, if there's a better way thats still 'sane', will try that and report back.
14:16	asciilifeform	the sane approach consists of isolating all of the unixoid crud in separate .ads/.adb , make it compact.
14:16	mod6	anyway, it's been pretty cool to see this thing come to life. im now in the process of building the big map of vpatch->srcfile->{hash_a, hash_b}
14:16	asciilifeform	neato.
14:17	mod6	<+asciilifeform> the sane approach consists of isolating all of the unixoid crud in separate .ads/.adb , make it compact. << ah, this is even deeper than i have it for sure.
14:18	mod6	eitherway, thanks for the tip.
14:18	asciilifeform	sure.
14:18	mod6	how's it goin with ffa stuff?
14:19	asciilifeform	still on barrett
14:20	mod6	werd. exciting stuff. wish i could help more :/
14:26	asciilifeform	the continuing lulzy part is how everywhere on the net you will find 'constant time crypto libs are available', 'it's a solved problem', 'this reduction routine is constant time', and all of it is liquishit and doesn't stand up to 30 seconds of examination with naked eye
		↖
14:27	asciilifeform	from openssl down to the crackpot libs, same exact thing, somehow the ~label~ is supposed to... make it so?
14:28	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718666 << not at all comparable, federal govt carved itself out some corruption purse ; mta is a local affair, has no such bs legislation.
14:28	a111	Logged on 2017-09-30 18:07 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718648 << nsa, cia also 'run on public funds', lol
14:28	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: takes fed moneys, neh
14:28	asciilifeform	just like the statehighways etc
14:28	mircea_popescu	not afaik
14:29	mircea_popescu	indirectly via debt ie "bonds" underwritten by fed via usg.idiots 401k etc
14:29	asciilifeform	'New York State’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority has said that it needs $29.8 billion in capital spending over the next five years... ...After months of silence, Gov. Andrew Cuomo has weighed in with a plan: $8.3 billion from the state, $3.2 billion from the city and the rest from the federal government and other sources' -- volkischer beobachter, aug. 2015
14:29	mircea_popescu	a nm, their 2015 five year plan 30bn is a jumble.
14:34	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718691 << in the same vein, "everywhere on the net" you see discussion of "stalin purges" and headcounts and commentary past satiem and nauseam. what you won't find is a fucking LIST OF NAMES. AT ALL.
14:34	a111	Logged on 2017-09-30 18:26 asciilifeform: the continuing lulzy part is how everywhere on the net you will find 'constant time crypto libs are available', 'it's a solved problem', 'this reduction routine is constant time', and all of it is liquishit and doesn't stand up to 30 seconds of examination with naked eye
14:34	mircea_popescu	you wanna know which fucking slavsky he supposedly strangled, as it's not the yefrim director of medium machinery ministry, who survived to the 80s ?
14:34	mircea_popescu	FUCK YOU!!! details are for terrorists! Stalin killed 20mn people and they had no names!
14:34	asciilifeform	he ate'em!11
14:36	mircea_popescu	try and find any fucking concrete detail of anything. "global warming!!" yeah, and the measurements are where ? "MTA investment!!" yeah and you did what ? "stalin purges" who ?
		↖
14:36	mircea_popescu	and so on and so following, an entire anthill of priorless idiots.
14:37	mircea_popescu	they could be tachyons for all the fucking difference it'd make, came from the future and going to disappear into the past.
14:37	asciilifeform	http://old.memo.ru/memory/spiski.htm << the most liberally snarfing 'list of repressed' derps, funded by usg dos, sum up to 3mil.
14:38	asciilifeform	and incidentally whenever i dig out an actual case file ( there are not many in public domain , no prizes for guessing why ) it dun read like a 'arrested for nuffin'
14:39	mircea_popescu	"oh but mp, a list of 20mn names would be too long, here's instead a 1.2gb video version of me going uuuuhhh ummm in a concrete cell with plastic loose wallpaper!"
14:39	asciilifeform	more typically a 'stole from employer for decade+, and then Cruelly Unjustly Repressed (tm)'
14:39	asciilifeform	'but i was just orcing, like any other orc'
14:39	mircea_popescu	cuz fucking obviously, their windows notepad croaks if confronted with a 100mb csv, whereas their windows media player plays the uhhhhs and ummms just fine.
14:39	mircea_popescu	buncha monkeys.
14:40	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes, but it's not in fucking english, the language of the premiere science engineering shitheads in the world, now is it.
14:40	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and fwiw, CUR is how you say ass in romanian.
14:42	asciilifeform	http://rosagr.natm.ru/memorybook.php << another interhashinlkomyooniti-suppored derpatron; claims 1.5mil searchable bios
14:42	asciilifeform	incidentally when is anybody gonna make one of these for usa
14:43	asciilifeform	could be 100mil easy as pie
14:45	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718706 << i find it interesting how the racket is supposed, evidently, to work : the details somehow 'have been reified into The Consensus Reality (tm)(r) and consequently Only A Terrorist would demand to 'reopen the case', demand raw figures, verifiable-anythings.
14:45	a111	Logged on 2017-09-30 18:36 mircea_popescu: try and find any fucking concrete detail of anything. "global warming!!" yeah, and the measurements are where ? "MTA investment!!" yeah and you did what ? "stalin purges" who ?
14:45	asciilifeform	( witness how they treat localhost 'deniers' etc )
14:54	mircea_popescu	anyway, fwiw slavsky is identified as Yemelyan Mikhailovich Yaroslavsky. and reich is likely zinaida, esenin's wif.
14:56	asciilifeform	not strangled at all tho
14:56	mircea_popescu	which ?
14:56	asciilifeform	yaroslavsky
14:56	mircea_popescu	http://rosagr.natm.ru/memorybook.php?fam=%DF%F0%EE%F1%EB%E0%E2%F1%EA%E8%E9&im=&otc=&birth=none&bday=1&bmonth=1&byear=&arrest=none&aday=1&amonth=1&ayear=&book=all&subm=%CF%EE%E8%F1%EA << fellow pointedly absent.
14:57	asciilifeform	i assume we're discussing the propagandist ?
14:57	mircea_popescu	what do you mean ? died 1943 in moscow of what ?
14:57	asciilifeform	cancer, as far as anybody knows.
14:57	mircea_popescu	"being a trotskist" afaik.
14:57	asciilifeform	nope?
14:57	mircea_popescu	hm.
14:58	mircea_popescu	wouldn't be the first time romanian history of the urss diverges from russians' own idea.
14:59	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how far does the disagreement go ? y. wrote a likbez on bolshevic orthodoxy that stalin found extremely apt in 1940, and then full of heresies in 1943. aye or nay ?
15:00	asciilifeform	afaik d00d was never publicly defrocked, or even rebuked, buried with honour in the fortress wall
15:00	mircea_popescu	his book was fucvking banned!
15:00	asciilifeform	which book
15:00	mircea_popescu	history of communist party.
15:01	mircea_popescu	the "reliable guide" of 1920s.
15:01	asciilifeform	let's verify that we have same d00d ?
15:01	asciilifeform	http://www.hrono.ru/biograf/bio_ya/jaroslavski_em.php << him ?
15:02	asciilifeform	( scroll to the caricature, also. )
15:02	asciilifeform	afaik d00d sucked stalin's cock till the day he died.
15:02	mircea_popescu	мельян Михайлович Ярославский born gubelman.
15:02	mircea_popescu	same man.
15:02	mircea_popescu	we are discussing the cock not the sucker here tho.
15:03	mircea_popescu	yes, most of them sucked it till the end.
15:03	asciilifeform	wrote canonical bio of stalin, sat on the librorum prohibitorum committees, etc
15:05	mircea_popescu	well nikita also wrote cannonical obit of stalin, but the point is, he did fall at some point in the 30s, his historia was indexed, and so on.
15:05	mircea_popescu	might have been reprieved.
15:05	mircea_popescu	might have died of cancewr, i guess.
15:05	asciilifeform	last link defo not prosov www. and yet 0 record, there or anywhere, of y having written a book that got unhappened etc
15:05	mircea_popescu	the self-same history of the bolshevik party.
15:06	asciilifeform	https://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/4440538/ << hey is that is
15:06	asciilifeform	*it
15:07	mircea_popescu	naaa
15:08	mircea_popescu	hmn
15:08	mircea_popescu	the original item was called "History" not "victory". this looks like a 60s reprint maybe ?
15:08	mircea_popescu	the original item, published 1926 or such
15:09	asciilifeform	waiwat
15:09	asciilifeform	that's what it is, История ВКП(б)
15:09	asciilifeform	1934.
15:09	mircea_popescu	oook, i found reference! lyova wrote to trotsky on 19 nov 1937, and trotsky replied jan 22 next year, they are discussing the stalin ban on the yaroslavsky item!
15:10	asciilifeform	let's have it?
15:10	mircea_popescu	well this may take a little, where the fuck does one find this shit online.
15:14	asciilifeform	all i dug up is various folx contesting the authorship
15:14	mircea_popescu	sorry asciilifeform . all i have are my own notes, which are as all hand notes useless without hte backing of the library of origin (in this case, the universitary library of cluj). teh interwebs dun seem to have a "here's the list of trotsky letters".
		↖
15:14	asciilifeform	( for n00bz : subj b00k became Official Truth on party history etc )
15:15	mircea_popescu	problem compounded by the fact that my only interest in the matter stems from an obscure mention in an post-war anti-soviet propaganda song by some guy i studied.
15:15	asciilifeform	http://www.stalindigitalarchive.com << in other lulz
15:15	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: moscopol ?
15:16	mircea_popescu	yes.
15:16	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ok, other event, also from 1931 : ryazanov got outsted from his mit. aye or nay ?
15:16	mircea_popescu	3rd event, for the pattern : stalin personally wrote against the whole staff of proletarian revolution, for "trafficking trotskism". aye or nay ?
15:17	asciilifeform	1 at a time...
15:17	asciilifeform	which ryazanov
15:17	mircea_popescu	the one that lead the marx-engels institute
15:18	asciilifeform	d. b. ryazanov aite
15:18	mircea_popescu	david, born goldensomething or the other. guy died in 38.
15:19	asciilifeform	ate lead yea
15:20	mircea_popescu	ok so, for summation : the objection re the gazette was that it said something about rosa luxembourg (as the habit was to glorify the three l's, and stalin wanted it broken) ; the objection re ryazanov was that he typified a sort of marxist-leninist scholarship that was stalin-indifferent, stalin didn't like. and the objection re yaroslavski was that his original, 1920s item reflected a history not sufficiently flattering for
15:20	mircea_popescu	stalin, by for instance daring mention that trotski was you know, minister of war, rather than consumate conspirator.
15:20	mircea_popescu	now, your argument here is that the last two got hung but the first escaped ?
15:20	asciilifeform	by all indications
15:20	mircea_popescu	well, whether this is true or not, at the time my guy wrote it hadn't happened yet.
15:20	asciilifeform	escaped by 'turning on a dime' when asked.
15:20	mircea_popescu	tis possible.
15:21	mircea_popescu	was young enough, unlike r.
15:21	asciilifeform	the observation re stalin rm -rf / 'ing the well-developed wot pre-dating him, is old hat and entirely tru
15:23	asciilifeform	though i will add that if there had been not a stalin, and this were not done, su would look like zimbabwe (or, charitably, argentina et al)
15:23	asciilifeform	iirc we had the thread.
15:25	asciilifeform	old man iosif vissarionovich nixed the luxembourgs, lenins, 'world revolution' crapola, leftist idiocies in the vein of 'free luvv', cancellation of money, of military ranks, of whatever semblance of order, mulched, as necessary, the kakobreklas who balked
15:25	asciilifeform	then slaughtered the moos and out of their bone starch built industry etc.
15:26	asciilifeform	modern historians paint the textbook edits, 'gentle suggestions', etc. as an evil, but as i see it the man went and 'tried soft power' first
		↖
15:27	asciilifeform	this didn't work. proceeded with mulching.
15:28	asciilifeform	beheaded ~100k or so (near as i can tell) 'pantsuits' , to make it stick.
15:28	mircea_popescu	well, the interest of the historian is not you know, ethical.
15:29	asciilifeform	depends on the distance.
15:29	mircea_popescu	i just wanna be able to decode five syllables on an ancient rca record. the man says, in romanian phonetics, "raic si slavski"
15:29	mircea_popescu	which who the fuck are they ?
15:29	asciilifeform	near as i can tell, the folx pissing on stalin today, divide into usefulidjits and the actively pantsuited ( who would ~prefer~ an argentina in place of su )
15:30	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: is it possible that he meant the czech ?
15:30	asciilifeform	slansky
15:30	mircea_popescu	no because he comes later.
15:30	asciilifeform	hm.
15:30	mircea_popescu	both historically and in the song.
15:30	asciilifeform	when was the song ?
15:30	mircea_popescu	now, i'm pretty sure i got them right, esenin's wife and yaroslavski. but old ro guard disagrees,
15:31	mircea_popescu	granted disagrees with boneheaded traditions identifying the latter as this guy who was you know, active throughout the 70s and 80s.
15:31	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform hard to date, but between 1946 and 1958 or so.
15:31	asciilifeform	rudolf slansky swung in '52
15:31	asciilifeform	after ostentatious show trial
15:32	asciilifeform	so it could be the czech, neh
15:32	mircea_popescu	probably during petru groza cabinet, 52 to 58
15:32	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform problem with these items is that they are one step removed from gypsy fare. the words change.
15:32	mircea_popescu	it is customary to sing them like i tell jokes : about the persons present.
15:33	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform : "Asa dupa Reichxxiii si Slavskyxxiv Stalin curata pe Slanskyxxv iar Malenkov pe Beriaxxvi, ca sa nu-l mai supere cu peria." << whole verse.
15:33	asciilifeform	hmm
15:33	mircea_popescu	so after reich and slavski, stalin executed slansky, and malenkov beria to no longer bother him with the brush.
		↖
15:33	mircea_popescu	this verse was not written in one day.
15:34	asciilifeform	gotta wonder from where author drew his input
15:35	asciilifeform	to where his light cone even extended.
15:35	mircea_popescu	pretty much literal fascists.
15:35	asciilifeform	but which fascists.
15:35	asciilifeform	( nor does being a fascist automagically give you a window into the shooting cellar, and name of every d00d on the conveyor, lol, in real time )
15:35	mircea_popescu	as for eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697137
15:35	a111	Logged on 2017-08-11 18:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, he was bishop of cluj and nearly ended up patriarch
15:37	asciilifeform	upstack, http://www.stalindigitalarchive.com/frontend/node/3#tag=VKP has supposed scans of original drafts, stalin's red ink, correspondence, relating to subj b00k. but the yale people want a reg and asciilifeform can't be arsed.
15:37	mircea_popescu	heh
15:38	asciilifeform	this item reminds asciilifeform of his highschool thesis-thing, which was a massive dig into the primary docs re lysenko
15:39	asciilifeform	who, interestingly, today has his defenders. iirc we had the thread.
15:40	mircea_popescu	do you know of any other possible candidate to fill the sound /slavskʲ/ ?
15:40	asciilifeform	( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-19#1646050 << thread, iirc )
15:40	a111	Logged on 2017-04-19 15:49 asciilifeform: let's briefly visit another time, place : the showdown between lysenko and vavilov.
15:40	asciilifeform	hmm
15:41	asciilifeform	http://www.veteranrosatom.ru/articles/articles_276.html << surely not him
15:42	mircea_popescu	doesn't seem likely does it.
15:42	asciilifeform	nope.
15:43	asciilifeform	i suspect we have a bitrot artifact.
15:43	mircea_popescu	do you recall the now-famous davai zdreantsa incident ?
15:43	asciilifeform	per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684571 ?
15:43	a111	Logged on 2017-07-15 19:08 mircea_popescu: this is done universally and to everything, german, russian, turkish. zdreantsa!
15:44	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-14#1683806 prolly better link
15:44	a111	Logged on 2017-07-14 20:19 phf: apparently the complete form is "davai zdreanta, desdemona! -- kakoy zdreanta, otela, blya??"
15:44	asciilifeform	aa yea
15:55	mircea_popescu	i find all 1943 cases of cancer highly suspect.
15:56	mircea_popescu	for that money reich also had cancer of the phnatom udder.
15:56	asciilifeform	but not of stroke, or typhoid ?
15:56	mircea_popescu	less, somehow.
15:57	asciilifeform	i mean, if we're still doing yaroslavsky, as far as available data goes, d00d lived and died a bootlick
15:57	mircea_popescu	died 1943.
15:59	asciilifeform	i've nothing against a version where he Had To Have Problems, but currently not seeing anything that'd point in that direction
16:00	asciilifeform	i can see even why stalin might've nailed kirov, his personal friend
16:00	asciilifeform	but yaroslavsky - nfi why
16:00	mats	in my experience not every unit had a weapon system suited to the designated marksman role, which can often just be the guy with the most accuracy and an acog scope, or a saw gunner, or a 240b
16:01	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718796 << re this, the ~whole objection re trump is that he didn't go into the first press conference with "1. nobody who worked for us govt in the past five years can continue to do so ; 2. i will propose at most one name to congress. they have 48 hour to approve. if i don't propose, or they don't approve, or they approve in 48h01m, the whole dept in question gets unwound, including by publ
16:01	a111	Logged on 2017-09-30 19:26 asciilifeform: modern historians paint the textbook edits, 'gentle suggestions', etc. as an evil, but as i see it the man went and 'tried soft power' first
16:01	mircea_popescu	ic auction of furniture". and then cleared the hall of pressjews with the mounted police, breaking as many heads as at all possible.
16:01	mats	poverty of equipment, my platoon didn't have one but some others did
16:01	asciilifeform	mats: so who and where carries the .308 a10 or what was it
16:01	mircea_popescu	mats "ar-15 entirely exists because weak-ass usian soldier ersatzes can't carry a proper gun. true or false ?"
16:02	mircea_popescu	that's my understanding of it, "we'll delegate small arms supression fire to the a-10 airborne platform, and then discontinue it. soldiers can carry icecream cones."
16:02	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: iirc smallbulletism began in early '60s, and a continuation of german crackpottery, sturmgewehr 'intermediate'
16:03	mircea_popescu	just about the time the new generation of orwell bedwetters started whining about how they're affraid of the enemy.
16:03	mircea_popescu	so yes, joan baez days.
16:03	asciilifeform	the 'wound'em, not kill, tie up 3 men' thing has merit, neh
16:03	asciilifeform	plus the 'if yer mostly laying down suppressivefire, smaller bullet worx as well as gigantic'
16:04	mircea_popescu	neh. because if you're behind a concrete wall and i'm behind a concrete wall, i'd rather unzip and piss on you than try and fire a shitass 5mm gun
16:04	mats	asciilifeform: i never encountered it but i wasn't infantry, we didn't have a use for it, snipers had m24
16:04	asciilifeform	drilling through concrete is for work for squad machinegun, neh, not for small arm
16:04	mircea_popescu	is that the remington 700 re-sold for 5x the list price ?
		↖
16:05	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the theory of this sounds a lot different from the practice of this.
16:05	mats	mircea_popescu: works well in iraqi cities, not so much in afghan
16:05	mircea_popescu	the only extra hole in my hide i acquired through ricochet under car, nearly lost a knee.
		↖
16:05	mircea_popescu	if it were small it'd never have made it.
16:06	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you weighed it when it came out of the meat ?
16:06	mircea_popescu	i even kept it a while.
16:06	asciilifeform	which round was it
16:06	mircea_popescu	was but fragment.
16:06	asciilifeform	aa
16:06	asciilifeform	then who knows which
16:07	mircea_popescu	what, you think the op survived to carry the source away ?
16:07	mircea_popescu	what is this.
16:07	asciilifeform	i dun think mircea_popescu ever told the story, aside from the detail where he had an extra hole. so nfi.
16:08	mircea_popescu	mircea_popescu irrespective, the point remains that in most actual engagements, there's a minimum projectile size worth firing.
16:08	mircea_popescu	also the notion that wounded men stop firing, and limp around like little bitches is borne of little familiarity with any actual war.
16:09	asciilifeform	usg army is built for panamas, not stalingrads.
16:09	mircea_popescu	at which point revisiting http://trilema.com/2015/strategy-for-the-antisocial-struggle/ is probably apropos. doods were firing at helicopters with enough lead inside to make a set of toy soldiers.
16:11	mircea_popescu	but anyway : the "wounded man ties up 3 soldiers", other than the baked in presumptions that these are the caring kind of soldiers and the inept kind of wounded, also neglects to mention that ricochet has killed more peopl;e than direct fire since the invention of gunpowder. and by a factor of 10 to 100, not piddly.
16:12	asciilifeform	what's mircea_popescu's hypothesis re why su army did not see through smallbulletism , and adopted ?
16:12	mircea_popescu	why did su not see through atomic bomb, and adopted ?
16:13	mircea_popescu	su suffered from chinese disease of monkeying tv.
16:13	asciilifeform	bomb was a good deal tho
16:13	mircea_popescu	in what sense ?
16:13	asciilifeform	'touch moscow, lose london'
16:13	mircea_popescu	you think anyone gives a flying fuck ?
16:13	mircea_popescu	srsly now. youi think anyone cared ? then or now ? london, really ?
16:14	mircea_popescu	you ever been ?
16:14	asciilifeform	never been, and 0 plans
16:14	mircea_popescu	so from your pov, already lost ?
16:14	asciilifeform	proverbial!11 london. as in, separate addr for every particular derp with napoleonic ambitions
16:15	mircea_popescu	nothing wrong with "wasting" money, in the sense of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-07#1711187 yhes good for them, got bomb, got into rocketry, won space race etc.
16:15	a111	Logged on 2017-09-07 16:12 mircea_popescu: there can be no further accomplishment than this, in the sense of fundamental research.
16:15	mircea_popescu	but this is not really decided on the merits, is it.
16:15	mircea_popescu	maybe through fielding 3mm bullets and peashooters for them they discover a new way to please the females, insert into urethra and empty magazine.
16:16	mircea_popescu	if this were to happen it still wouldn't be an argument for the military value of shooting pea.
16:16	asciilifeform	lol
16:17	mircea_popescu	on the strict, first layer implications, soviets eating the bomb bait produced some rich us contractors and a bankrupt su economy.
16:17	asciilifeform	and if not eaten, quite probably would've been glassed some time in 50s-60s.
16:18	mircea_popescu	this has little value, obviously, exactly in the sense cancer prevention has little value. "oh we stopped smoking and yet" http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-25#1716989 what could be the explanatuion!!!
16:18	a111	Logged on 2017-09-25 09:43 mircea_popescu: aand in yet more lulz : cancer incidence increased in us adolescents by a steady 0.5 - 0.6% per year, each year, since 1975.
16:18	asciilifeform	( or 'democratized', panamized. )
16:18	mircea_popescu	obviously the fucking explanation is that the sort of bioscum that get cancer from smoking will still get the cancer from other things ifthey can't get it from smoking
16:18	mircea_popescu	doh.
16:19	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform arguably it was so democratized anyway. bombs didn't do jack did they.
16:19	asciilifeform	if a great pistolero, attacked by none, grows senile and finally slips in bathtub, it does not say anything re value of pistol.
16:20	asciilifeform	pistol is not immortality pill.
16:20	asciilifeform	and everybody, people, empires -- gotta die of sumthing.
16:21	mircea_popescu	i thought the whole fucking point of politics was to discover the thing that needn't die.
16:21	asciilifeform	and if one is not indifferent re how to die, on knees or standing -- then pistol is valuable.
16:21	mircea_popescu	else why even fucking bother with any thing at all.
16:22	asciilifeform	lol, why bother to clean kitchen when don't have thousandyearreich yet ?
16:22	asciilifeform	what is this, gabriel_laddel ?
16:22	mircea_popescu	i mean "Any thing at all" in the way of politics.
16:22	mircea_popescu	if this form of organziation, govt, what you call it, society, ANYTHING does not come with promise of permanence, why am i even considering it ?
16:23	asciilifeform	imho kitchen 1st, 1000yr reich 2nd. in politics or in engine maintenance or wherever.
16:23	mircea_popescu	go fix it first and bother me when you have.
16:23	mircea_popescu	until then, no need of any of it.
16:23	mircea_popescu	in other words, the mp strong argument for anarchism : the only regime that may be temporary is anarchism.
16:23	mircea_popescu	anything else, must make strong case for permanence.
16:24	asciilifeform	proof of permanence are to be requested from the splenduferious goddess on olympus, or where.
16:24	mircea_popescu	hey, i'm not invested in this.
16:24	asciilifeform	they dun have'em on my homeplanet.
16:24	mircea_popescu	when they find them, they can notify.
16:25	mircea_popescu	if the rule is "to fly with apparatus heavier than air must generate lift in excess of weight", there's no rider going "but tell us where to find such lift".
16:25	mircea_popescu	find it and ye may fly ; find it not and stfu in a chorus.
		~ 37 minutes ~
17:03	mircea_popescu	re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718873 if it wasn't obvious the reason it's famous is the https://www.facebook.com/remingtonarmscompany/videos/1863133148249/ vs https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/17/states-join-objections-to-remington-rifle-settlement.html lulz.
17:03	a111	Logged on 2017-09-30 20:04 mircea_popescu: is that the remington 700 re-sold for 5x the list price ?
17:04	mircea_popescu	(remington 700 fires without trigger interaction ; longstanding problem, hundreds of deaths/injuries, multiple lawsuits. cca 1995-2005 remington kept pushing out "point by point responses" and other nonsense, which they've meanwhile beleeted throughout, including spam domains a la remington700.tv and such "deniable" efforts "by consultants". in 2017, half the DAs oppose a settlement on the grounds that insufficient.
17:06	mircea_popescu	as far as remington isconcerned however, a proposal to replace ~8mn triggers is not a recall!
17:19	asciilifeform	hey, ppsh fired when dropped
17:19	asciilifeform	would discharge the whole drum, even
		~ 30 minutes ~
17:49	mircea_popescu	myeah.
		~ 3 hours 7 minutes ~
20:56	BingoBoingo	!~bcstats
20:56	jhvh1	BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 487744 \| Current Difficulty: 1.103400932964E12 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 487871 \| Next Difficulty In: 127 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 39 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None
		~ 1 hours 54 minutes ~
22:51	mircea_popescu	what's new elaineo
22:57	mircea_popescu	!!up elaineo
22:57	deedbot	elaineo voiced for 30 minutes.
22:57	mircea_popescu	what's it say ?
22:58	elaineo	i got the OTP through PM
22:58	elaineo	but no response after decrypting msg
22:58	mircea_popescu	hm.
22:58	mircea_popescu	trinque is deedbot sick ? i notice he kinda quit doing the rss also
22:59	elaineo	deedbot is a dude?
22:59	mircea_popescu	elaineo did you say something just like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-26#1717369 to it ? except diff numbers of course ?
22:59	a111	Logged on 2017-09-26 04:39 mircea_popescu: !!v D4088521A7610AB73BAEDE6391EB686B1BDAD174263DFECC60AD9707A0674ECD
22:59	mircea_popescu	no, deedbot is an actual bot ; oglafbot is an actual dude.
23:00	elaineo	forgot the 'v', my mistake
23:01	mircea_popescu	a
23:02	elaineo	is qntra still a thing?
23:02	mircea_popescu	yes, but it has joined the chorus invisible for the time being.
23:02	mircea_popescu	gotta get hosting sorted out.
23:04	mircea_popescu	"Nobody becomes a software engineer because they love writing code; they become a software engineer because it allows them to build out ideas." << this is not so in my experience. from what i've seen in others, and certainyl in my own case, we become engineers because everythinf everyone else does is shit.
23:05	mircea_popescu	i came out of retirement for like the third fucking time to design non-crap items ; asciilifeform narrowly avoided the bottle because apparently there were some people somewhere actually engineering, as opposed to tubgirling all over themnselves. and so following.
23:06	mircea_popescu	(btw, check out how sentence references work on trilema : http://trilema.com/2017/the-masters-textbook-why-do-girls-seek-you-out/#selection-39.0-39.40 )
		↖
23:07	elaineo	is your intention to show others how to build things properly, or to solve your own problems because no one is doing it for you?
23:07	mircea_popescu	the latter.
23:08	mircea_popescu	this is a matter of incontrovertible fact, signed by the hand of the author himself : if i didn't HAVE TO write http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/in-re-bitcoin-devs-are-idiots.htm and such, nobody "involved in bitcoin" would even know my name.
23:08	elaineo	that's probably a better way of saying what i meant to say, then
23:09	mircea_popescu	i dunno how common this case is in general ; but i guarantee it is the only case where it actually matters, which is to say at the top. that's why torvalds got off ass, that's why rich got off ass, pick any one of the actually competent.
23:15	elaineo	why did you feel compelled to write "In re Bitcoin Devs are idiots" ? did code stop sucking after that post?
23:16	mircea_popescu	it did not stop sucking, no. but it did suck then.
23:16	mircea_popescu	"If youre a Venture Capitalist, the last thing you want is for your child to go into wage slavery." << more in the same vein. i do take the tack you recommend ("you have no choice in the matter ; the bullwhip is right over there if this doesn't translate otherwise") with my own slavegirls, in a limited sense, thereby forcing them to proficiency in ~certain aspects~ of software engineering. those aspects are exactly those a
23:16	mircea_popescu	lligned with the above -- woman, you have to be able to think clearly, and correctly, and when i say "take no crap from anyone, be it wikipedia or your mom", i actually mean ~something~. it's not a ra ra ra, it's an actually specified artefact, it belongs in engineering, with process assurance and quality control and all that jazz, not as part of a pep rally.
23:17	mircea_popescu	being a ~competent~ engineer, of any kind, can't possibly be a regression. it's intellectually required for human life.
23:20	elaineo	why do your slavegirls submit to you? one can easily imagine an alternate universe where your slavegirls mistakenly chose a master that whips em in another direction
23:20	mircea_popescu	one could indeed readily so imagine ; doesn't take much.
23:20	mircea_popescu	amusingly, 3k word answer to your q is quoted above, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-01#1718967
23:20	a111	Logged on 2017-10-01 03:06 mircea_popescu: (btw, check out how sentence references work on trilema : http://trilema.com/2017/the-masters-textbook-why-do-girls-seek-you-out/#selection-39.0-39.40 )
23:21	elaineo	"because you're capable of making silence, annulling the noise such that they can focus on the things that actually matter, to them."
23:21	mircea_popescu	aha!
23:22	*	mircea_popescu is happy with that as a one line summary.
23:24	mircea_popescu	"The most important tech skill, then, isnt computers or engineering Its the art of getting paid to control vast amounts of money." << this then is rank nonsense on the level of "the best car is one with a really powerful engine". really, no steering needed ? brakes optional ? some people are good at finance, some people are horrible at it. yes, fixing your head so you don't suck at finance is absolute requirement fo
23:24	mircea_popescu	r human completeness. fixing your head so you don't suck at engineering is earlier stop on the same road. first, you learn to walk, THEN you learn to fuck. "the most important skill" is a discussion of age and station appropriateness, naught else.
23:24	elaineo	who is "you" in this piece? yourself, mircea_popescu? or self-perceived masters in general?
23:24	mircea_popescu	elaineo well, a master, i expect. but not self perceived, perception dun enter into it. substantial master.
23:25	elaineo	oh come on. why would fixing your head so you don't suck at engineering be a prerequisite? Did you learn to be a good slavegirl before you could be a master?
23:26	mircea_popescu	no, i did not. but the reason is unrelated : engineering deals with discrete, concrete items, before your eyes. finance deals with complex systems of such items.
23:26	mircea_popescu	trying to "understand thermodynamics" without any shits given for the atomic theory will result in tears.
23:28	BingoBoingo	<elaineo> "because you're capable of making silence, annulling the noise such that they can focus on the things that actually matter, to them." << This makes those iDiot slabs anti-Master!
23:31	elaineo	@mircea_popescu having never worked in finance, i suppose i'll take your word for it, for now
		↖
23:31	mircea_popescu	moreover, consider the case of mr hruschev of the soviets vs mr lee of the singaporeans. it is a factual matter that no one to date had control, properly called financial in this context, of more resources than hruschev. nor probably ever will. what good did it do him ? and lee started with two old boats and some captured rats. he grilled the rats, sold them and went from there, completing one of the very few cases documented
23:31	mircea_popescu	to date of that ancient boyish dream of you know, "trading toothpicks for car parts and those for plastic bags and so on until trillionaire!"
23:32	mircea_popescu	but this aside, you familiar with the general fate of lottery winners ?
23:32	elaineo	yes, i am
23:33	mircea_popescu	having a large army behind you (and money is strictly nothing but) is, obviously, an important ingredient in gaining battlefield glory and the laurels of caesar.
23:33	elaineo	lottery winners not really comparable, since they are not competent in finance, engineering, or much of anything
23:34	mircea_popescu	no argument here. however, crassus was ill served by his army at carrhae.
23:34	mircea_popescu	elaineo but they do control outsized chunks of money.
23:34	elaineo	look at the rothschilds & rockefellers
23:34	mircea_popescu	i am looking. what am i expected to see ?
23:35	elaineo	they controlled outsized chunks of money, and thus human labor
23:35	mircea_popescu	this is a dubious statement of the actual history of the matter.
23:37	mircea_popescu	consider it from this angle : for 1 point, who was emperor maximillian ; for 1 point, what did he order be done to his artillery pieces and in which town ; for a further point who happened to live there and for the remainder 6 poins, why did you not say his name ?
23:37	mircea_popescu	when you pick two examples but fail to pick the proper one among them, teacher knows you didn;t actually do the reading.
23:37	elaineo	0 points for me
23:38	mircea_popescu	jakob fugger was the proper example for this "rich man financing the dissolution of medieval system into industrial society". and the emperor had his artillery wheels bound in hay so as to not disturb his sleep.
23:39	mircea_popescu	this may suggest that "human capital" was of no importance, value or interest. what mattered was ailleurs.
23:41	mircea_popescu	now then -- the iliterate migrant worker who wins 100mn worth of powerball you would have learn how to read and write so the shysters won't trick him with contracts. this makes sense. yet the innocent daughter of a VC you wouldn't have understand engineering, so the shysters won't feed her crap in their description of "reality" ? what's this girl to do if she ever has to fix her car, pay 8k for a new johnson rod, like george
23:41	mircea_popescu	costanza ?
23:43	mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am8mbOeKBzE << teh johnson rod.
23:44	elaineo	understanding engineering is a subset of what it takes to not be a moron, which is a subset of what it takes to be a VC
23:45	elaineo	what mattered was ailleurs.
23:45	mircea_popescu	tell ?
23:46	elaineo	oh, i dunno. just copied & pasted a sentence from what you said above.
23:47	mircea_popescu	lol, what's that, some google ai thing ?
23:48	elaineo	cargo cult arguing-on-the-internet
23:48	mircea_popescu	ailleurs there is a reference to "la joie c'est ailleurs", which is my own reprocessing of "la vie est ailleurs", which is a kundera novel, and the yarn of reference, criticism and tongue in cheekness does continue
23:49	elaineo	was anyone expected to understand that reference aside from yourself?
		↖
23:49	mircea_popescu	yes. everyone was expected to understand the reference.
23:49	mircea_popescu	dja ever read milan kundera btw ?
23:49	elaineo	nope
23:50	mircea_popescu	ah, too bad. i'd expect you'd like him, seems to me exactly in your style.
23:50	mircea_popescu	though granted this may be more a description of my poor understanding of selfsame styler.
23:52	elaineo	interesting... i'll check out one of his books
23:52	mircea_popescu	so supposing you were going to teach me about capitalism ... what would you say ?
23:53	elaineo	i've never been an investor so i don't know what it takes to be successful at one. i suppose it starts with understanding supply, demand, transaction costs
23:54	mircea_popescu	hm.
23:54	mircea_popescu	eh, i find it hard to believe you can live in bay area and not be an investor. don't they force-feed everyone stocks, options, etcetera as part of employment there ?
23:56	elaineo	i get stock options, but i don't think that makes me an investor. stock options are like S&H greenstamps, where you feel like you're getting something valuable for free but you're not
23:56	mircea_popescu	well, technically the definition of investor, neh ? one who owns commercial paper in excess of 0 cash nominal value.
23:57	elaineo	by that definition, sure. though it doesn't really make me diversified.
23:57	mircea_popescu	i expect not. so why do you expect other people/parents who don't even have enough sense to find #trilema could teach their kids anything, including how to make mayo ? leaving aside something as intricate as capitalism.

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