Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-08-01 | 2017-08-03 → ↓
00:21 BingoBoingo In other plugs https://i.imgur.com/S7mIT.jpg
~ 22 minutes ~
00:43 mircea_popescu ahahaha
00:43 mircea_popescu spark plug, will do teh job.
00:56 BingoBoingo In other news, agricultural supremacy Phase 1 write up incoming in the next week or two.
00:57 BingoBoingo Spoiler: Tomatoes were sparse until Fair had already started and entry deadline passed
01:00 mircea_popescu there's always next fair.
01:01 mircea_popescu in other abandonments, http://68.media.tumblr.com/2994268879b0ec849b1ddb348864a210/tumblr_o8mgprJEUS1u20dnoo1_500.gif
01:08 BingoBoingo Eh, feels like I won anyways, at this point tomatoes are ripening faster than I can eat them
01:09 BingoBoingo And in a wide variety
01:10 mircea_popescu hope you got a lot of garlic.
01:10 mircea_popescu that + olive oil pretty much the only way to make tomatoes go down the throat in quantity.
01:10 mircea_popescu and in other "omfg death by cuteness", i captured a tiny baby gecko, 2 gram's worth. he's adorbs.
01:15 BingoBoingo Awe
01:17 * BingoBoingo has been doing tomato + garlic aoli + bread = delicious
01:24 BingoBoingo "honey delight hybrid" has been the most prolific producer so far
~ 27 minutes ~
01:52 mircea_popescu gotta homebake teh bread tho
~ 32 minutes ~
02:25 BingoBoingo Ideally, but any carb substrate will do
02:28 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8514
02:32 BingoBoingo An elementary school blow job cat http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/files/2014/01/fairview1.jpg
02:38 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8510 << Apparently this is a thing nao
~ 4 hours 17 minutes ~
06:56 cazalla good evening
07:08 shinohai Hola cazalla !!!
07:13 cazalla what's new shinohai, anyone die or other exciting stuff going on?
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07:14 shinohai No one has died afaik ....the best lulz continue to be printed in Qntra, as befits such things.
07:14 shinohai How have ya been?
07:15 cazalla pretty good, daughter turned 1 few months back, son is moving towards 4
07:16 shinohai Time marches on! :D
07:18 shinohai !~ticker --market all
07:18 cazalla i read roger is giving away free btc so seemed a good time to jump back in and pay a bit more attention
07:18 jhvh1 shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2722.02, vol: 10759.74487443 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2721.5, vol: 33415.28408887 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2719.702182, vol: 23257.02110000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2716.0, vol: 10626.6495451 | Volume-weighted last average: 2720.28727936
~ 15 minutes ~
07:34 shinohai Yeah if he can get his chain to move enough to enable depositing it to an exchange to dump xD
07:41 shinohai And in other signs that the US is crumbling: http://archive.is/RSeUz
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~ 1 hours 44 minutes ~
09:26 asciilifeform in other noose!, a samsung ssd lasts about 2y in a high-traffic trb node.
09:26 asciilifeform RIP zoolag ( until replacement comes... )
09:28 shinohai SFYL asciilifeform
09:28 asciilifeform lol
09:28 asciilifeform it's a wear part.
09:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-16#1203271 << birth
09:30 a111 Logged on 2015-07-16 04:24 asciilifeform: gentlemen, please welcome zoolag.ddns.net - a therealbitcoin/stator node.
09:30 asciilifeform so gave a solid 2y.
09:31 shinohai I need another ssd tbh ... mats was kind enough to fund one for my node some time ago.
09:33 * shinohai is very careful with his chain backups now
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
10:51 mod6 mornin'
11:04 shinohai Buenas dias mod6
11:05 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587057 << thank you for the handy backup! but what's up with the busted icons?
11:05 a111 Logged on 2016-12-21 08:36 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585796 << http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/
11:08 mod6 Buenos dias!
11:10 phf also it would be handy to mark some of the files as text/plain in nginx so that browser doesn't autodownload: ltv, lst, cl, lisp, doc
11:10 phf morning mod6
11:14 mod6 hi phf, how goes?
11:15 phf since we have this lisp archive and there's some lispers here, there's some nifty code in there http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/syntax/infix/0.html infix notation, http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/syntax/measures/0.html a unit system which lets you write stuff like (dim+ 1m 4mm) > 1.004m, http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/l
11:15 phf isp/code/fun/life.cl game of life that was used as a prop in a certain anime series, and my favorite http://cmu-ai-mirror.bvulpes.com/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/fun/sunset.cl sunrise/sunset calculator.
11:16 mod6 pretty neat mirror
11:17 phf mod6: slow start of day. i ate too much pelmeni last night before bed, so now i'm groggy and don't want to exercise. it's a vicious cycle!
11:20 mod6 That looks great, never had it myself. Looks sort of like a small pierogi.
11:24 phf yeah, basically, but pierogi (which is polish by the way, russian "pirog" means pie) typically have complicated, vegetable heavy stuffing. cabbage, potatoes, etc. pelmeni on the other hand are specifically meat (beef, even, though i suppose you can have them with pork and chicken too)
11:27 phf put some dill on them, maybe some sautéed mushrooms
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11:30 mod6 ahh.
11:30 mod6 sounds fantastic.
~ 30 minutes ~
12:01 phf "Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue (fortune.com)"
12:01 phf !!up p0nziph0ne
12:01 deedbot p0nziph0ne voiced for 30 minutes.
12:02 phf not sure if you want the floor, but you have it.
12:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692489 << this is actually a pretty clever move.
12:12 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 11:41 shinohai: And in other signs that the US is crumbling: http://archive.is/RSeUz
12:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692514 <<< not only am i the sort of lazy asshole who never actually exercises, but i call the small bits of filling inside unleavened dough/potato dough that's then boiled blinyi, and i fill them with cheese, or meat, or w/e i feel like.
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12:18 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 15:27 phf: put some dill on them, maybe some sautéed mushrooms
12:18 mircea_popescu to be served with either butter or sour cream.
12:19 mod6 you walk a fair amount though
12:19 mircea_popescu this is true.
12:22 p0nziph0ne phf: as long as coinbase has terms of use like polo does since yesterday https://github.com/usefree/poloniextermsofuse/commit/a6c548bccf6b8767505938081e0e56051a32cb24 and they will let govs participate in the theft i see no chance for coinbase customers to have success in a lawsuit
12:22 p0nziph0ne part 25 and 29 is an interesting change
12:22 p0nziph0ne If Poloniex is unable to return your Tokens to a third party Account for you after a period of inactivity, Poloniex may report and remit the Tokens to an applicable government agency pursuant to applicable escheatment or unclaimed property laws.
12:23 mircea_popescu p0nziph0ne what;s your experience with class actions ?
12:24 p0nziph0ne none, its not very common in europe
12:25 mircea_popescu then what is " i see no chance" supposed to mean ?
12:25 mircea_popescu you can't see, for lack of the sight organ, which is a knowledge of the field.
12:26 p0nziph0ne as long as taxes and gains from coinbase finally get payed and the gov is happy, what is the interest to give small customer what they deserve? they will forget at the end and dont care
12:26 mircea_popescu i quoted a coupla items off my class action feed the other day. the firehose (ie, unfiltered) easily exceeds hundreds of entries. DAILY. (they have to be published because any member of thje class can apply to court to be lead plaintiff.)
12:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692368 < there.
12:27 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 00:20 mircea_popescu: and in other chipotle lulz, http://www.stockhouse.com/news/press-releases/2017/08/01/safirstein-metcalf-llp-announces-that-a-class-action-has-been-filed-against
12:27 p0nziph0ne and they (coinbase) may say we had a major system outage on that day, was unable to store the amount
12:29 mircea_popescu but, to answer your misshapen general question, "the interest of the government" is to maintain public faith in both the functioning of the system and their ability to control it. whereas taxes are not a concern, the operation of the usg is financed by chinese credit not by domestic taxation. much like in any other banana republic, which is why greece, or argentina, or etc are so reluctant to collect their tax receipts.
12:29 ben_vulpes phf: i honestly have no idea
12:30 ben_vulpes iirc i pulled the whole shebang down with a wget --give-me-everything-no-seriously-recursive-too so it's a big ??? for me
12:30 mircea_popescu meanwhile in amateur photography, http://68.media.tumblr.com/86de9ed2b0a14f4d1f5bd6bdec6ab4bd/tumblr_o74rlu1BQw1ug8wbfo1_1280.jpg
12:32 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: do you walk to places in cr? or in circles around the mountaintop of solitude looking for adorable fauna
12:35 mircea_popescu well depends. you can walk all over san jose, which is you know, about the size of rancho cucamonga or something. you can also go for a serious walk through the numerous national parks, go from cerro alto to villa mils or somthing if you're up for the trek.
12:37 mircea_popescu but generally, a small "town" in costa rica constists of a coupla strip malls and a bunch of corrugated sheet metal shacks around them. say orotina or w/e.
12:46 mod6 Is there a Lord in this Chamber who would like to take project lead of Cuntoo? This would entail maintaining the distribution as seen fit for use by TMSR~, coordination of all tasks, and general oversight, hosting of packages/source etc? The Foundation would be willing to contribute to the cost of infrastructure for this hosting if need be.
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12:48 mod6 I know I would help contribute to this project as I can, and I'm sure others will as well.
12:49 mircea_popescu good idea.
12:49 mod6 Well, at this point, it's all up for discussion. Thought it'd be best to get this ball rolling.
12:50 mircea_popescu yee
13:00 asciilifeform ACHTUNG S.NSA CUSTOMERS! all outstanding FUCKGOATS orders shipped.
13:02 shinohai mod6: I'm interesyed in helping with Cuntoo if I can, perhaps we can discuss in greater detail in a bit.
13:03 mod6 Sure thing, shinohai.
13:03 mod6 asciilifeform: nice
~ 23 minutes ~
13:26 * asciilifeform back in biznis
13:38 asciilifeform https://archive.is/Ybp6T << apparently... gavin also still inbiznis.
13:49 asciilifeform !~later tell mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692547 << i'll do it. unless danielpbarron REALLY yearns to
13:49 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 16:46 mod6: Is there a Lord in this Chamber who would like to take project lead of Cuntoo? This would entail maintaining the distribution as seen fit for use by TMSR~, coordination of all tasks, and general oversight, hosting of packages/source etc? The Foundation would be willing to contribute to the cost of infrastructure for this hosting if need be.
13:49 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
13:49 asciilifeform in which case i'll help him.
13:54 asciilifeform !~later tell cazalla http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692480 << http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html is new since iirc last you were here.
13:54 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 11:13 cazalla: what's new shinohai, anyone die or other exciting stuff going on?
13:54 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
13:57 asciilifeform scatha (~markus@p508D264D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #trilema << it is rather remarkable imho how there ALWAYS has to be a connectolade-spamming dipshit at any given time
13:57 asciilifeform one dies, another takes his place.
14:06 trinque ftr I have several different gentoo install scripts laying about; iirc folks may have used them at various points. if that's in scope for tmsr gentoo repossession, I'm happy to contribute them, and maintain.
14:07 asciilifeform trinque: potentially very useful
14:11 danielpbarron i don't know that i'm qualified to take lead on such a thing, as knowledgable on the subject as i may be. And i have a bad habit of losing track of projects that i'm not super confident about
14:13 mod6 So noted.
14:14 mod6 It seems that many of us are interested in this project; feel free to contribute as you can towards asciilifeform's project goals.
14:15 mod6 I'll be doing the same. :]
14:15 asciilifeform mod6: i'm sitting on a massive stash of vintage packages
14:15 mod6 I read that, yea. Sounds great.
14:15 asciilifeform but not necessarily the best selection, nor oldest vintages.
14:15 asciilifeform largely circa 2011.
14:15 asciilifeform about 12GB worth.
14:16 mod6 Wow, alright. Yeah that's a few.
14:16 asciilifeform 'An activist group, which claims Coinbase's decision is akin to a brokerage withholding new shares from its investors, warns it will commence a class action suit after August 15 if the company doesn't release the Bitcoin Cash. Meanwhile, an attorney named Priyanka Ghosh-Murthy told Fortune she intends to file a complaint—invoking negligence, breach of fiduciary duty, and unjust enrichment—in Florida by the end of the week.' << lo
14:16 asciilifeform l!!
14:19 trinque dat "the A of B" amerilogic
14:19 * asciilifeform wonders if goxes will be 'obligated' to maintain nodes for every shitfork , or only Officially-blessed ones
14:20 mod6 it's lulzy huh
14:20 mod6 it's almost like "shut up and take my money" in reverse
14:22 asciilifeform elsewhere in heathendom, https://archive.is/CSXhd << 'Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, and YouTube (Google/Alphabet, Inc) have formed the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism and Amber Rudd is asking them to quietly drop end-to-end encryption from their products.'
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14:22 asciilifeform 'drop' lol
14:23 asciilifeform complete with schneier in there.
14:24 trinque god, her face. literally, "I will open my mouth as wide as you let me".
14:24 asciilifeform meanwhile in north monkeystan, https://archive.is/jlIWY >> 'Cable giants step up piracy battle by interrogating Montreal software developer and searching his home'
14:24 asciilifeform 'On June 9, the telecoms got an Anton Piller order, a civil search warrant that gives a plaintiff access to a defendant's home, without notice, to search for and seize relevant evidence before it can be destroyed. A Federal Court judge would later declare the Anton Piller order in this case "unlawful," but that was weeks after a group of men arrived at Lackman's door at 8 a.m. on June 12. Lackman says the group included a bailiff, t
14:24 asciilifeform wo computer technicians, an independent counsel and a lawyer representing Bell, Rogers and Videotron.'
14:24 mod6 <+trinque> god, her face. literally, "I will open my mouth as wide as you let me". << scary huh
14:25 asciilifeform '...Lackman's belongings still haven't been returned. Nor can he access the TVAddons website or its social media accounts, which were also seized as part of the original order. That's because Bell, Rogers and Videotron have appealed the court decision and a Federal Court of Appeal judge has ruled that until the appeal can be heard, Lackman will get nothing back.'
14:26 asciilifeform ^ achtung pete_dushenski et al
14:27 asciilifeform who said pinkertons went out of style.
14:29 mod6 pantsuits. pantsuits everywhere.
~ 24 minutes ~
14:54 phf what is that BingoBoingo says, pence in our time
14:54 mircea_popescu danielpbarron well, depends if you're willing to commit or not ; but this has to be an afore-the-fact decision. can't be "let's see", that just causes grief.
14:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not surprising, is it ? ~whole point of fiat corp is to keep the lawyers in yachts.
14:55 asciilifeform noshit.jpg aha
14:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692585 << what the fuck ELSE could ghave been the point of all the paywall gardens. but no "i just want to use github". lazy fucktards.
14:56 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 18:22 asciilifeform: elsewhere in heathendom, https://archive.is/CSXhd << 'Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, and YouTube (Google/Alphabet, Inc) have formed the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism and Amber Rudd is asking them to quietly drop end-to-end encryption from their products.'
14:57 mircea_popescu "i'm not a filthy subhuman monkey from india, i'm following my religious rituals by feeding rats milk. problem ???"
15:05 mircea_popescu meanwhile in concrete butts, http://68.media.tumblr.com/cc5d4b75fcd46bbef9765faa6a0a5c60/tumblr_o8ipj6OxhZ1tco00do1_1280.jpg
15:08 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692523 << i think the need to exercise is a measure of non-freedom, one of those activities that only exists in relation to wage slavery. like leisure or tourism or happy hours. i was in my best shape when i didn't work, mostly fucked, climbed abandoned buildings and went for very long walks. now exercise is basically a need in order to break static friction of sedentary lifestyle. i do though believe in natsoc kind o
15:08 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 16:18 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692514 <<< not only am i the sort of lazy asshole who never actually exercises, but i call the small bits of filling inside unleavened dough/potato dough that's then boiled blinyi, and i fill them with cheese, or meat, or w/e i feel like.
15:08 phf f way in some inherent, discipline building value of körperkultur
15:08 asciilifeform ^
15:08 mircea_popescu maybe, though i am not convinced. gout was originally the disease of the corrupt priest. there's this very specific tendency of the affluent white male to turn into a pear.
15:10 mircea_popescu whereas i was in my best shape in my 20s also : i ate steak for breakfast, three deserts a day, i don't think i ever went to bed before ingurgigating 4k calories and i was mostly so skinny, if i laid on my back in swim trunks i could see my own dick.
15:11 mircea_popescu at any rate, i also believe in that whole spqr-esque "korpenkultur" as you call it ; just i'm also scandalously self indulgent.
15:12 phf well, i don't exercise to stay skinny though, i don't have problems with that. it's more like that scene from Highlander, where they run on the beach just because they are ridiculously fit and it feels good. if i don't do any of these things, i start feeling like a modern man, slow and broken.
15:13 mircea_popescu which is highlander ?
15:13 phf an 80s "fantasy" movie with lambert and connery
15:14 mircea_popescu hm
15:14 phf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfm6EvoE7FA
15:15 mircea_popescu o shit.
15:15 mircea_popescu the thing with the beheadings ?
15:16 phf yeah! i rewatched it recently on a plane ride, it's incredibly bad in the way only 80s movies can be
15:16 mircea_popescu so i was once at a party, i dun recall teh details, but that dude, adrian whatever, was there.
15:16 asciilifeform so bad , counter underflows, and it's... good
15:16 mircea_popescu and all the ~OLD~ ro tv hookers were crowding him, it was fucking hysterical to watch.
15:17 mircea_popescu i dunno, they were figuring it's gonna help their "careers", as if 200 dollar a show tv extras in intl markets have fucking careers or somethign.
15:18 phf maybe it helps with a local carrier? "i was at this party with such and such" works on people who don't usually go to parties with such and such
15:18 mircea_popescu adrian paul! there we go. dumbass name to boot.
15:19 mircea_popescu phf nah.
15:19 mircea_popescu ~only thing that can help with local carrier is if so and so "businessman" calls. otherwise...
15:20 phf oh, yeah, the guy from the tv show. i think i might've watched it back in russia, along sliders and quantum leap and such
15:20 asciilifeform sliders!
15:20 * asciilifeform nostalgiates
15:20 mircea_popescu tales from the crypt : the new generation or how did it go
15:20 asciilifeform it was in the mass of us tv asciilifeform saw in '90s when he still had a tv, to suck in the language
15:20 mircea_popescu i thought this was english.
15:21 asciilifeform it was
15:21 mircea_popescu a ok
15:22 mircea_popescu http://www.laweekly.com/arts/the-highlander-taught-me-how-to-sword-fight-7558697 << actually apparently they have the same dumbass on the west coast, too. http://archive.razorcake.org/site/spaw/uploads/files/Liz_O_b.jpg
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15:26 hanbot mod6 : supar nitpick in yer v.pl help, "Mirrors command my only be invoked by itself." /may only
15:29 mircea_popescu in other "crowdsourcing", http://publications.newberry.org/dig/rc-transcribe/index (chicago library looking for volunteers to type old english/vernacular latin texts)
15:32 mircea_popescu and in other media lulz, https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n03/patrick-cockburn/who-supplies-the-news
15:34 asciilifeform in very very other lulz, asciilifeform actually got hold of a superH ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-31#1691143 see also ) dev board, sh7216. mega-disappoint : ZERO linux support for the on-board debugger. which one actually NEEDS to do anything whatsoever with the thing.
15:34 a111 Logged on 2017-07-31 17:07 asciilifeform: the sh2, which is still massively made, beats the mips micros available on open market in ability to run from external rom
15:34 asciilifeform i can easily see why renesas is ~dead ( chip in production, but largely for existing designs )
15:34 mircea_popescu um
15:34 asciilifeform this doesn't change the fact that the only other non-internalflashed serious-horsepower chips are ARMs.
15:34 mircea_popescu how the fuck is this possible ?
15:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: pretty easily.
15:35 mircea_popescu but didn;'t the dorks need to use some kind of debugger to get it to boot linux anything ?
15:35 asciilifeform apparently they flashed it in from winblowz.
15:35 mircea_popescu aaaahahahaha
15:35 mircea_popescu no, see ?
15:35 asciilifeform pretty common idiocy, sadly
15:36 asciilifeform anyway this isn't half the grief : if it were just a matter of flashing, i could flash via crocodiles, applied externally. but you need the debugger to singlestep.
15:36 mircea_popescu aha.
15:36 mircea_popescu is it documented by the japs at least ?
15:36 asciilifeform nowhere.
15:36 asciilifeform also typical.
15:36 mircea_popescu in what sense does this item exist then ?
15:37 asciilifeform ( dark ages proprietary pre-jtag debugger, it seems, implemented in on-board fpga )
15:37 asciilifeform it exists in everybody's 1990s game console, stereo, vcr, etc. and now also in that fpga item.
15:37 asciilifeform the ~arch~ is documented.
15:37 asciilifeform the shitboard ain't.
15:38 asciilifeform ( other than a pdf where 'flip the dip switches like-so, click in winblowz like-so' )
15:38 mircea_popescu so it's basically "this piece of flotsam i once found which for a time light up when you said boo".
15:39 asciilifeform for clarity : asciilifeform ain't inluvv with superH. but he ~does~ search for a cpu where 1) respectable (say, even trb-capable) horse 2) no internal flash rom 3) not ARM
15:39 asciilifeform reporting today that result of this is still empty.
15:39 mircea_popescu unless we make an actual board for the extant superh items
15:39 asciilifeform that was the contemplated item
15:40 mircea_popescu in the process discovering that a) they diverge from the spec and b) in no particular or ennumerable way.
15:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, i mean make one.
15:40 asciilifeform well yes, so asciilifeform picked up a classic devboard to investigate
15:40 mircea_popescu aha.
15:40 mircea_popescu and discovered in fact dev board never existed.
15:40 asciilifeform can make board quickly. but nowhere does -- afaik! -- the full doc exist publicly.
15:40 mircea_popescu for the chip ?
15:41 asciilifeform for the debug extensions.
15:41 asciilifeform which in practice are needed to do anything particularly useful.
15:41 mircea_popescu so the arch is NOT actually documented.
15:41 asciilifeform aha!!
15:41 mircea_popescu alright, so problem solved. superh never existed.
15:41 asciilifeform leaving empty box.
15:41 mircea_popescu it seemed like it may exist ; upon examination it turns out ignis fatuus
15:42 asciilifeform asciilifeform however habitually collects and referments the aborted foeti of items which nearly existed, to try an' grow item that exists. because no other materials available.
15:43 mircea_popescu aha.
15:43 asciilifeform ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607160 observation )
15:43 a111 Logged on 2017-01-26 14:44 asciilifeform: because unfortunately lenin was right when he wrote 'we build new world from the planks of the old shithouse we blew up, not from imported brick'
15:44 mircea_popescu by mass, the lenin world was built out of the fat of the idiots who lived in old shithouse, wrung out through their skin pores.
15:45 asciilifeform how else.
15:45 hanbot mod6 : coupla more typos, if you care, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/jdZ6j/?raw=true
15:47 asciilifeform summary : asciilifeform is looking for a 1) 32 ( or greater ) bitness cpu 2) that is able to execute code WHOLLY from external bus ( a la 1980s ), incl from rom 3) not ARM 4) in production
15:48 asciilifeform 5) not intel
15:48 asciilifeform if anyone has any knowledge, even thirdhand, of such a thing existing -- plz to post.
15:48 mircea_popescu 6) documented.
15:48 asciilifeform either documented or reversed.
15:48 mircea_popescu how are these different ?
15:49 asciilifeform nm not different
15:49 asciilifeform i just dun care ~by whom~ documented.
15:49 mircea_popescu color of bits unimportant, we're not racists.
15:49 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: aha. actually saw that already this morning.
15:49 pete_dushenski "The whole experience was horrifying," says Adam Lackman, founder of TVAddons and defendant in a copyright infringement lawsuit launched by the television giants. "It felt like the kind of thing you would have expected to have happened in the Soviet Union." << my fav quote from piece.
15:49 pete_dushenski like, no shit dude, wtf kinda revelation is this. another quiet #t reader, apparently.
15:50 mircea_popescu he's exactly right, at that. precisely the sort of thing that happenbs in soviet unions.\
15:51 pete_dushenski the difference being, pravda didn't used to publish post-interrogation bitching by defendent. now... does.
15:51 mircea_popescu i don't see this in pravda.
15:51 mircea_popescu i see it in the same samizdat as always.
15:52 pete_dushenski cbc = canadian pravda
15:52 pete_dushenski it's official mouthpiece of Truth
15:52 mircea_popescu ah is it ?
15:52 mircea_popescu do you have stand your ground laws in canada ?
15:53 pete_dushenski "coming soon" (tm)
15:53 asciilifeform iirc they have the opposite
15:53 mircea_popescu im unfamiliar.
15:53 pete_dushenski but currently only law is koombaya motherfucker
15:55 asciilifeform briefly revisiting the cpu thing, incidentally i forgot a 7) not ppc
15:55 asciilifeform ( and no sole-source garbage period. )
15:55 asciilifeform which i'm quite confident leaves : the empty set.
15:55 pete_dushenski west will split off in my lifetime, probably into two pieces. prairies will have stand your ground, west coast will have "he's entitled to his opinion"
15:55 mircea_popescu powerpc was an intel tyhing i thought
15:55 asciilifeform ibm
15:55 asciilifeform they still sell it, even.
15:56 mircea_popescu ah
15:56 asciilifeform sparc fit all of the wish list conditions ( incl. being multi source ) when it was alive. today afaik dead.
15:57 pete_dushenski !~ later tell BingoBoingo working on blackzilla-infant photo. in the meantime, please enjoy these other lawnmower solutions http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/mobility-scooters-comparison-test-whill-vs-pride-vs-golden-tech-comparison-test
15:57 jhvh1 pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded.
15:57 asciilifeform major objective of the usg.oracle acquisition, was to nuke it.
16:01 mircea_popescu as per google : "SPARC is a global coalition committed to making Open the default for research and education." and Sparc - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparc Sparc is an exclusive import distributor for the Philippine market.
16:01 asciilifeform lolwat
16:01 mircea_popescu so indeed, nuked very well. they even invented "other things" to be it instead of it.
16:01 mircea_popescu oya.
16:02 mircea_popescu also a school of performing arts in community whatever.
16:02 asciilifeform probably 9000 things
16:02 asciilifeform at any rate the published opensparc fpga thing actually worx
16:02 * asciilifeform tested
16:02 mircea_popescu yep! and all the same things, too. "community", there;'s also a "sparc-climate science".
16:03 asciilifeform it's what the ru elbrus folx ripped off for elbrus.
16:03 asciilifeform and the ones in cn also iirc.
16:04 mircea_popescu for my own curiosity, what's the state of the art re "MINIMAL cpu design" ? ie, the theory of how many instructions mustg be in a set and why and per-instruction justification and everything ?
↖
16:04 mircea_popescu you know, the basis of design and documentation.
16:04 asciilifeform this is actually asciilifeform's primary interest re subj
16:05 mircea_popescu im not exactly shocked.
16:05 asciilifeform and answer very very depends on what is required in terms of horse
16:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform design does not proceed towards requirement.
16:05 mircea_popescu design proceeds from available.
16:06 asciilifeform upstack -- you can do a great deal with 1 instruction.
16:06 asciilifeform ( as in, 'oisc' )
16:06 asciilifeform there are several known schemes for this.
16:06 mircea_popescu car gets internal combustion engine NOT because "the needs of the buyer", but because it needs a power plant and that's the better powerplant available. the needs oif the buyer are welcome to adapt.
16:07 mircea_popescu that's the design flow. automobile, therefore powerplant, therefore ice.
16:07 asciilifeform the basic tradeoff is, the fewer the moving parts in cpu, the more constrained is the horse by the switching elements' speed.
16:07 asciilifeform ( consider, elementarily, pipeline vs. none , for instance. )
16:08 asciilifeform or the cost of not having a barrel shifter.
16:08 asciilifeform or a multer. etc
16:08 asciilifeform ( or, on the extreme end of things, not having arithmetic other than add-one. as scheme chip did. )
16:09 mircea_popescu but the decision of whether to have or not have barrel shifter is strictly carried on the cost of it.
16:10 mircea_popescu (what is the total cost of this item ? what percentage of that is this new addition ? what is the output of this item ? what percentage of that would the new addition produce ? make these two rations equal, you're done adding parts.)
16:10 mircea_popescu ratios*
16:11 asciilifeform correct. but the answers to these depend SEVERELY on the substrate. for instance, if your thing lives in a fpga, not filling it up doesn't make it cycle any faster. so you want to actually use the available gates, if they can be used productively
16:11 asciilifeform ditto for a die made with particular process -- empty space doesn't get your money back
16:11 mircea_popescu so the cost will be 0, this is correct.
16:11 asciilifeform ( it can lower thermal output, so still makes sense sometimes to have empty. )
16:11 mircea_popescu the design of any general purpose item is above, there's no exceptions.
16:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so the cost will be epsilon, 0 from real estate and epsilon from heat.
16:11 asciilifeform one other gotcha: complexity has a cost.
16:11 mircea_popescu definitely.
16:12 mircea_popescu this is not a gotcha.
16:12 asciilifeform it apparently is a surprise to some people.
16:12 asciilifeform ( largely because they historically were able to externalize the cost. )
16:12 mircea_popescu the usg not holding up to its side of any bargain it ever made -- also surprise. to some people.
16:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ftr, the "register window" spark thing seems the height of idiocy, but what do i know.
16:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was a pretty ordinary thing in '80s
16:14 mircea_popescu leaving aside how "our idea of scalable is to define a number up to 32 and then you can go from 3 to 32 and this is now scaling" hurr.
16:14 * asciilifeform not aficionado of sparc specifically. it's a complexityhog.
16:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you can't have infinitely elastic registers. there's N bits , physically.
16:15 asciilifeform the word is this-wide.
16:15 mircea_popescu you can not call your spec "scalable" while it has magic numbers in it.
16:15 mircea_popescu this is a fact.
16:15 mircea_popescu magic numbers === friable.
16:15 asciilifeform physical objects all contain immutable 'magic numbers'.
16:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform at issue is the count of "registger windows" that can be implemented.
16:15 mircea_popescu not the register width.
16:16 asciilifeform the index into these is a register. having some immutable width.
16:16 asciilifeform the thing being indexed, gets populated ( or not ) exactly like, e.g., ipv4, or the holes in your pci bus, etc
16:16 mircea_popescu they did this dumb shit whereby passing was done by shared registers ; every process or w/e could see 8 proper and 8 shared or such.
16:16 mircea_popescu the number of such "register views" aka windows was a per-processor thing
16:17 mircea_popescu and the sparc designers imagined allowing this to be between x or y counts as "Scalable"
16:17 asciilifeform and yes it's ridiculous . but they forced themselves into it by having the window thing at all, is the idea.
16:17 mircea_popescu ie, if you implement 32 register views you're then making a server cpu whereas if you implement 3 you're thereby making an embeddable cpu
16:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is true, but the fucking correct solution was to take the bs off not to "fix it". aaanyway
16:18 asciilifeform i mention sparc as a historic item, it is afaik no longer possible to source it.
16:18 mircea_popescu i don't think it was ever any good.
16:18 asciilifeform ( other than by baking into fpga. which 1) introduces the 'which fpga, again' problem 2) if you have fpga, big enough for sparc, you can make up a SANE arch to go in it
16:18 asciilifeform )
16:19 mircea_popescu anyway, there's that thing amateur rocketry kids dfick with, what was it
16:19 mircea_popescu the raspberri before the raspberri
16:19 asciilifeform ?
16:19 mircea_popescu gimme a sec
16:20 mircea_popescu http://www.rte.se/blog/blogg-modesty-corex/leon3-soft-processor <
16:20 asciilifeform fpga only
16:20 mircea_popescu 32 bit thing, has source, vdhl etc.
16:20 mircea_popescu yes.
16:20 asciilifeform never existed as an actual physical chip.
16:21 asciilifeform there's NO shortage of these.
16:21 asciilifeform i have own, even.
16:21 asciilifeform what i was looking for, is actual physical off-the-shelf cpu.
16:21 asciilifeform ( that doesn't rely on closed xilinx 20GB turdchain to fill, doesn't contain a flash rom, doesn't double as a frying pan )
16:21 mircea_popescu http://gaisler.com/index.php << check them out heh
16:22 mircea_popescu dual-core leon3-ft processor, 200mips, 200mflops.
16:22 asciilifeform looks like golden toilet asicization exists (existed) ?
16:22 asciilifeform unsurprise
16:22 asciilifeform but go and buy.
16:23 mircea_popescu they're all asics, in the metal layer sense used in bitcoin mining. they deliver.
16:23 asciilifeform yes. but not on open market, is the point.
16:23 mircea_popescu as in buy on amazon ?
16:24 asciilifeform as in buy at digikey or other mainstream supply house .
16:24 mircea_popescu aha. neah, they sell like NSA sells FG.
16:24 asciilifeform ( and if i were producing $box by the million, i wouldn't deal with these derps and use their weird arch, but have my own asiced. )
16:25 mircea_popescu subject to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692736
16:25 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 20:04 mircea_popescu: for my own curiosity, what's the state of the art re "MINIMAL cpu design" ? ie, the theory of how many instructions mustg be in a set and why and per-instruction justification and everything ?
16:26 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677807 << see also thread...
16:26 a111 Logged on 2017-06-30 19:42 asciilifeform: in fact, here's a new (afaik) scheme for tta. an instruction is THREE addresses, X, Y, Z. and it performs Z := X xor Y.
16:28 mircea_popescu to revisit a very ancient mp wonderment since his less-interested days ( http://trilema.com/2010/curiozitate-calculatoristica/ ) : why not ada-on-a-chip ?
↖
16:28 asciilifeform what would that mean
16:29 pete_dushenski in other "we didn't mean to phork ITWASAJOKE", http://archive.is/JGbb0
16:29 asciilifeform ( if mircea_popescu meant a chip-that-checks-bounds. which existed at various points, e.g. symbolics lineup supported ada natively just as well as lisps . )
16:30 mircea_popescu no. i mean chip whose instructyion set is ada.
16:30 asciilifeform lol, as in basic interpreter, actually moving the fucking humanreadable strings around ?
16:30 mircea_popescu not necessarily.
16:31 mircea_popescu as in language-on-a-chip, no interpreter no compiler no linker no assembler.
16:31 mircea_popescu native code, is ada.
16:31 asciilifeform that'd mean 'shuffling the human strings' necessarily.
16:31 mircea_popescu so i guess -- like old lispm
16:31 asciilifeform which come in variable widths.
16:31 asciilifeform the lispm was pointedly NEVER anything of the kind.
16:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ince when the fuck ? use whatever glyphs you want for the opcodes.
16:31 asciilifeform huamnreadables come in variablewidths, so this doesn't work in physical reality.
16:32 mircea_popescu humanreadable face on code is a GLYPH. the code is actually code.
16:32 asciilifeform in the end when you try an' make this, you end up with essentially the bolix chip.
16:33 mircea_popescu you currentyly know 0f is pop and 0f a9 is pop gs and so on.
16:33 mircea_popescu for the same money you could know 0f is if or whatever the fuck, ada instruction.
16:33 asciilifeform the addresses are where you diverge from humanreadablelang.
16:33 asciilifeform not the instructions.
16:33 mircea_popescu but i only asked for ada chip in sense of, cpu instruction set == ada language.
16:34 asciilifeform ada is interesting because 1) all array accesses bounds checked. you CAN hardwarize this. but also 2) whole program is forced to conform to strict rules, said conformance can only be evaluated during compilation, and strictly when taken as whole
16:34 asciilifeform you can't hardwarize 2.
16:35 mircea_popescu but you can in fact make the cpu run the same instruction set as the language allows ?
16:36 * asciilifeform cannot rightfully apprehend the confusion that leads to this question.
16:36 mircea_popescu hm.
16:37 asciilifeform possibly mircea_popescu had read my http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46 piece. but in re lisps, there are specific operations that are missing from extant hardware : gc/cons, and boundscheckedarrayaccess. these are clumsily implemented in software.
16:37 mircea_popescu ok, let's approach it this way : is the point of a "high level language" strictly to clothe cpu instruction set in glyphs people like, or is there an actual substantive function to it beyond ux ?
16:37 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692636 << neal stephenson at some point raised half a million dollars on kickstarter to write a realistic computer simulation/game for sword fighting. his target audience/groupies/support staff look remarkably similar to the people from the photo in this articles, including the one lady in renfair getup.
16:37 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 19:22 mircea_popescu: http://www.laweekly.com/arts/the-highlander-taught-me-how-to-sword-fight-7558697 << actually apparently they have the same dumbass on the west coast, too. http://archive.razorcake.org/site/spaw/uploads/files/Liz_O_b.jpg
16:37 mircea_popescu (in other lulz nobody likely cares about, * Topic for #bolix is: *** IBM PCjr collectors club )
16:37 asciilifeform lul
16:37 mircea_popescu phf supposedly this was for some charity with kidsd and shit.
16:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there's a substantive function, in transistor-poor era , to break down high level lang into the type of ops realistically fittable into silicon
16:38 asciilifeform ops like 'move these 64 bits from this-here-place to that-there-place' etc
16:38 mircea_popescu my hidden implication being that the traditional reasons to have the cleave are no longer sound.
16:39 asciilifeform that was the contention of my piece ( linked above )
16:39 mircea_popescu so then why confusion of ideas ?
16:39 asciilifeform but it was written from specific pov of lispm aficionado gripe -- where's my boundschecked dereference and hardware gc.
16:39 asciilifeform from ada pov only the former is relevant.
16:40 asciilifeform but in neither case does the instr set 'fully correspond to the language'. in the case of ada in particular, there is a useful thing that happens ~where whole program~ is examined.
16:40 trinque "Your writing sounds like a rant of a person more crazy than I am." - Terry Davis << wahahahaha
16:40 trinque that's a true honor, right there.
16:41 asciilifeform trinque: hey, d00d is 'sane' enough that he offloads his insanity to a shannonizer. weakling!11
16:43 mircea_popescu trinque sauce ?
16:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: from commentz in my www, linked item
16:44 trinque http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46&cpage=1#comment-98
16:44 mircea_popescu a. lol. wd!
16:45 asciilifeform lolty
16:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know a fellow tr0n/trinitr0n ?
16:46 asciilifeform dun think so
16:47 mircea_popescu aha.
16:48 asciilifeform ...why?
16:48 mircea_popescu discussion in... #bolix
16:49 asciilifeform i'll confess, i never had a pc-jr.
16:49 mircea_popescu lel
16:50 asciilifeform 1980s rubbish micro.
16:51 asciilifeform ( was a cheapened version of ibmpc, circa '84 iirc )
17:05 mircea_popescu aha. friend had one.
17:05 asciilifeform i dun think i ever had an 8086 without 640k
17:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform phf http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SYECU/?raw=true bolix discussion (they dun wanna have it public). including first ever instance of a "who the fuck are you" handshake working out.
17:15 pa1atine hello
17:15 mircea_popescu hi
17:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i still have nfi which d00d it is, who claimed to know me
17:22 mircea_popescu it's all in there.
17:22 * asciilifeform reads..
17:22 mircea_popescu but -- everyone knows you. get used to it.
17:23 asciilifeform so far sad folx, referring to loongson as if it existed
17:23 asciilifeform and even to 'mill' ( a gavinization of a poor reading of asciilifeform's unbuilt arch )
17:24 mircea_popescu i was rather positively impressed.
17:24 asciilifeform it isn't the typical pit of screaming imbeciles, tru
17:24 mircea_popescu anyway, to a certain (EXTREMELY FUCKING LARGE) degree, people being weary of redditatds one day popping in is entirely understandable to me.
17:25 asciilifeform the 'please dun log us' bit is lulzy considering fleanode.
17:25 asciilifeform it == 'only nsa log us plox'
17:26 mircea_popescu ya well.
17:28 asciilifeform lol looks like a bolixwhisperer
17:28 phf :)
17:29 asciilifeform why not ask him why he didn't bittorrent WHOLE MOTHERFUCKING STASH
17:29 asciilifeform lemme guess, 'reasons'
17:29 asciilifeform d00d ain't an archaeologist, he's a grave robber.
17:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform im a guest there, what. am i going to go around visiting people and organising their harems ?
17:29 asciilifeform sitting on stash and inflating own sense of significance by 'keeping seekrits'
17:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fair
17:29 asciilifeform rhetorical 'ask'im'
17:30 mircea_popescu i did ask as far as i judge polite.
17:30 asciilifeform gridcompass was neato btw
17:31 asciilifeform i've been trying to buy one for ages.
17:31 asciilifeform ( 1st lappy in any useful sense of the word. powered -- and afaik still does - american and french 'nuke football', among other applications. )
17:31 phf i know trinitr0n personally, and i also spent time on #bolix a year or so ago, but snr went down, and now it's mostly tr0n's personal shit talking place, so i just communicate with a handful of people from that channel who i think are useful by other means
17:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i read to the end and still have nfi who these folx are. i suspect we have ( charitably ) case of mistaken identity.
17:32 asciilifeform asciilifeform is unable to map the fella in the snippet to anyone he ever met in meatspace or corresponded with.
17:33 phf we also talked a few times about him emailing asciilifeform about symbolics hardware, either with a dismissive reply or no reply at all.
17:33 mircea_popescu wait, you sat there watching alf bitchslap random guy and shaking your head ? lol
17:33 asciilifeform phf: y'know if you suspected the mail ain't getting through -- could have asked.
17:34 asciilifeform it ain't any kind of mystery how to contact asciilifeform , or where
17:34 phf that was before i knew either tr0n or probably even asciilifeform for that matter. ascii's been posting bolix stuff for a while now, and i'm not particularly keen on mediating this relationship.
17:35 mircea_popescu lel
17:36 mircea_popescu phf's nightmare fuel, high octane : being alf's personal secretary in an alt-soviet ww2 wherein alf is zhukov.
17:38 phf perhaps if it was my only thing to do, but i would still probably find myself staring down a barrel of a nagant at some point
17:39 mircea_popescu hey, as per regulations that's what you have to do anyway as part of cleaning them
17:40 mircea_popescu anyway. so far i've not discovered a discrete way to help teh good folk.
17:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the strong claim was that he was the guy that finally fitted disk to symbolics.
↖
17:42 mircea_popescu phf do you also know who the quails fellow is ? someone or just local beck ?
17:46 phf the later, in fact that little snippet of quails piping in reminded my why i don't spend time on bolix.
17:46 mircea_popescu i see.
17:47 mircea_popescu well, i guess see if ian wants to reg a pgp key, i'd rate him. if nothing else, on the strength of
17:47 mircea_popescu here you go asciilifeform : https://www.instagram.com/tr1nitr0n/
17:47 mircea_popescu seattle guy.
17:52 asciilifeform never met
17:52 asciilifeform never afaik wrote.
17:52 mircea_popescu i believe.
17:52 asciilifeform looks to be connected with the 'lispm engineer' derp even
17:53 mircea_popescu the fate of fame is that more people will have an oppinion of you than you ever met.
17:53 asciilifeform !~google site:http://www.loper-os.org tr0n
17:53 jhvh1 asciilifeform: No matches found.
17:54 asciilifeform !~google site:http://www.loper-os.org tr1nitr0n
17:54 jhvh1 asciilifeform: No matches found.
17:54 asciilifeform yeah didnt think so , not there either.
17:54 asciilifeform ( was thinking -- comment d00d ? )
17:55 asciilifeform 'A break from my usual exotic, esoteric, rare and high-end vintage computers- I built a 486DX2 66mhz DOS shitbox for reliving my childhood.' ( from his twatter ) << lulzily, i did this recently..
17:55 mircea_popescu "attache -- the compact computer for the professional". back when computer guy had to go around with toolbox the size of plumber's.
17:56 asciilifeform grid?
17:56 asciilifeform was 1st porta-comp that wasn't 'oscilloscope' shaped
17:56 mircea_popescu nah, that large thing with the keyboard unwrapping off the top.
17:57 mircea_popescu http://oldcomputers.net/attache.html
17:57 asciilifeform ah that's called 'luggable'
17:57 asciilifeform i.e. 'oscilloscope shaped'
17:57 mircea_popescu 18lbs
17:57 asciilifeform aka 'herniators'
17:59 mircea_popescu "Comments: Interested in finding the value of a like new Otrona Attache. all accessories (including carry case)and documentation and software with it. Used only once to wright a college paper."
17:59 mircea_popescu marriage-college plan worked irl.
17:59 asciilifeform lol!
17:59 asciilifeform at least not to... right a collegepaper
17:59 asciilifeform or to rite.
18:00 mircea_popescu dali was a drawtsriteman.
18:01 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes any chance you check out this "people's comp museum" next seattle trip ?
↖
18:01 asciilifeform d00d's twatter full of liberasty of various sorts
18:02 mircea_popescu i'm sure.
18:02 mircea_popescu in other news : all the chicks in cairo wore the cairo chick dress, and every chick here is wearing jeans. permanently. dressing up = different top, same jeans.
18:02 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: sure
18:02 mircea_popescu cool deal
18:05 asciilifeform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp9NHNKTV-M << from d00d's links: circa 1993 film of mit ai lab 9th floor, walkaround. possibly interesting to phf et al.
18:05 asciilifeform at 1"04' pile of bolix, connectionmachine, etc
18:08 phf yeah, that's a beautiful video
18:09 asciilifeform betcha there ain't a single nonx86 comp ( or nonx86 brain!11 ) in that bldg right nao
18:09 phf not even just because of bolix, but the overall "there's working being done here" feel
18:09 asciilifeform if it even still stands.
18:09 asciilifeform aha!!
18:10 asciilifeform the 1/8th scale (!!) chopper alone, tells tale
18:10 mircea_popescu looks ~same as the cluj itc, cca 1985
18:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: each of those fat squat boxes is a 3650 and was something like 200k usd ( 1980s usd )
18:10 mircea_popescu i believe. to my eye that's not apparent, just, you know, "Whatever boxes they use"
18:11 asciilifeform that's the detail that makes asciilifeform's jaw drop tho.
18:11 asciilifeform other than that : looks like 'ordinary' uni lab
18:11 mircea_popescu aha.
18:11 mircea_popescu so... two dozen 1/4mn boxes, what of it ? ordinary print shop
18:12 mircea_popescu actually the ancient web presses were coupla mil a pop.
18:12 asciilifeform the interesting bit is not the golden toilet aspect, but that mit bought up a good % of the whole run
18:12 asciilifeform ( there were maybe a 1000 made, iirc )
18:14 asciilifeform 9"0' : 'whatcha up to?' 'making some retinal implants...' 'didja solve the glue problem' 'yea we solved the glue problem..'
18:14 mircea_popescu o ? i wasn't aware that was solved even.
18:14 mircea_popescu afaik retinal implants still in spreading-works stage
18:15 asciilifeform afaik yea
18:16 mircea_popescu major problem is that few people lose vision through retinal failure in a way that produces total blindness.
18:16 asciilifeform mostly laser victims
18:16 mircea_popescu the way it usually works is that they lose focus vision but retain lateral vision (this is how chet's eyes work). this then can through intensive training be taken to the point where you can actually write code. whereas surgery to implant a) doesn't yield very good focus vision and b)c threatens complete destruction of peripheral remnants.
18:16 asciilifeform and little else
18:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform retinal driven blindness is usually circulatory/vascular in nature.
18:17 asciilifeform (b) is a recurring boojum in prosthetics as a whole
18:17 mircea_popescu aga
18:18 asciilifeform from same twatter, lulz, 'jwz: DNA Lounge update, wherein DNA Lounge will be closed soon, without your help.'
18:18 asciilifeform i had nfi!
18:18 mircea_popescu what is that ?
18:18 * asciilifeform looks at derp's www, finds that it still alive, but begging for donations
18:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the original jwz
18:18 asciilifeform he ran a restaurant/club thing
18:18 mircea_popescu oh the guy made a bar right
18:18 asciilifeform now begs
18:18 mircea_popescu yua ya. shoulda put naked sluts on the stage.
18:18 asciilifeform 'just wanted!'
18:19 mircea_popescu mmmyea.
18:19 mircea_popescu in other well shaped and well dressed, http://68.media.tumblr.com/56b10c953900f1ad147c935f36207323/tumblr_o8lr32uyO61stijv1o1_1280.jpg
18:19 asciilifeform ( https://archive.is/2uzG7 for posterity. )
18:20 phf i think if he stuck to the original "cyberia" vision from The Hackers instead of leaning towards the whole san francisco cyber goth thing, but then you can't really bring new york cool to san francisco anyway
18:20 asciilifeform phf: i dunno how to parse this
18:20 phf or what was it, cyberdelia
18:21 mircea_popescu phf he tried and failed from hwat i hear. though i hear via actual bar people, as opposed to itards, and it's mixed in "shithead has nfi how to run a bar" expletives.
18:21 asciilifeform ' RoHS = Restrictions on Hand Soldering ' ( good one. and true : as described in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1871 , shit dun melt worth shit with any available iron )
↖
18:22 phf well, how do they have it with the restauranteurs: you have the guy who designs the concept and then you have the day manager who actually runs the place
18:23 mircea_popescu i am not aware of a successful restaurant that was built as you describe. you have a) the funes style restaurants, owned and operated by an actual expert chef. these are 50-50 for roi. b) the "prestige" restaurants of very large hotel conglomerates. these always lose money and are the mud from which a sprouts and in which a goes to die. and then you have the roadside diners. and then d) you have the franchises.
18:23 mircea_popescu were you talking d ?>
18:24 asciilifeform http://kremlin.enterprises/post/129322695175/your-code-is-so-bad-we-had-to-make-etclocal << another whisperer
18:24 asciilifeform ( linked from subj )
18:24 asciilifeform rembrandting the poor old junkers
18:24 phf mircea_popescu: i'm thinking stephen starr
18:25 mircea_popescu in my mind that's a.
18:25 mircea_popescu no ?
18:25 asciilifeform 'selling even one of these in today’s market would recoup the cost of everything we purchased, the van rental & gas between here and boston, the cost of freighting hundreds and hundreds of pounds of equipment from new york to washington state with enough left over to purchase a brand new macbook'
18:25 mircea_popescu or did he do the whole tv franchise bs and left coucou ?
18:27 mircea_popescu a yeah, check that out, franchised. sad. i've not seen the books but i'll bet you the conglomerate lost money q1 2017.
18:28 phf i'm pretty sure starr himself is not a cook, but apparently the whole starr restaurant is not his first venture, he started as a large-scale stadium concert organizer (? i'm not sure what to call that role), so who knows how much cash he put into his restaurant venture
18:29 mircea_popescu i suppose the situation is tight coupling between businessman and chef, which meanwhile disolved. i still count it as an a, except the funes item came in thje shape of starr/rose binome.
18:30 phf right
18:30 phf well, right, this is not any kind of area of jwz
18:30 phf err
18:30 phf jwz's expertise
18:30 mircea_popescu anyway, the idea was, restaurants don't work like apple stores, there's a "concept store" etc. they work more like music acts i guess.
18:31 mircea_popescu but yeah, starr had a cabaret when he was a kid, just like you. fucked cindi lauper into womanhood and so on.
18:36 asciilifeform apparently https://www.instagram.com/kalmanreti existed.
18:36 * asciilifeform had nfi
18:36 asciilifeform it is hilarious, all of these d00dz know one another
18:36 asciilifeform have own whispererwot
18:37 asciilifeform and studiously avoided ever writing to asciilifeform , though will claim to have, and even to have met him in meat ( i know quite well that i have met none, and never saw any such mail )
18:39 asciilifeform i will illustrate my comment 'they are grave robbers, not archaeologists'. take, for instance, https://www.instagram.com/p/BUXulHRgjEZ/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n ( it dun show on archive.is, i have nfi why . ) pictured is derp buys 4 (! and where?!) smbx ivory cpu
18:39 asciilifeform and who knows how many idiots like this, for how many years, and guess what, NOT ONE electron micrograph published
18:40 asciilifeform NOT ONE fully working emulator
18:40 asciilifeform NOT ONE even full instruction set doc.
18:40 asciilifeform but 'black archaeology' imbecile gets to feel warm an' speshul.
18:40 asciilifeform and rembrandts them on, to next idiot, for 100x price, 'to the moon!'
18:42 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631499 << see also...
18:42 a111 Logged on 2017-03-23 03:17 asciilifeform: it is almost as if they did not want their 3-10k $ investments to turn into the equivalent of old nintendo.
18:43 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631510 in particular.
18:43 a111 Logged on 2017-03-23 03:26 asciilifeform: the 'collectors', in my experience, have been the farthest possible thing from a help -- quite a hindrance, in fact.
18:44 mircea_popescu meanwhile in other lulz : i just brokered a deal whereby we could in principle get candi to run off vintage iron, as a hosting deal :D
↖
18:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: neato - what kind ?
18:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gNGre/?raw=true
↖
18:46 asciilifeform thing eats maybe a full kW/hr
18:46 asciilifeform so promises to be expensive hoster.
18:46 asciilifeform but not impossible in principle
18:46 mircea_popescu hey, actual lisp machine
18:46 asciilifeform iirc phf has a working 400
18:47 asciilifeform it ain't terribly useful as a headless deployment thing, tho, really shines as dev tool
18:48 asciilifeform ( no lispm ever built in the classical period had anything like the address space to make it bitcoin-capable, for instance )
18:48 mircea_popescu i'm not sure there's much limitation on usage.
18:49 asciilifeform even 200msec of lag makes x11 pipe pretty useless in practice in asciilifeform's experience
18:50 mircea_popescu understand : the neurotic chick that's fucked regular, unbecomes neurotic. the sane chick not fucked, becomes.
18:50 phf it is possibly because 3600 series is a hog. xl1201 is snappy, i got it to render a jpeg over the wire for example, all the hacking was done on machine over x11
18:50 mircea_popescu usage creates organs. nothing else.
18:50 asciilifeform phf: yes but over x11 in your house, not over half a planet
18:50 phf ah
18:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: know also, these weren't in any sense whatsoever multiuser.
18:51 asciilifeform whoever has the console, has full r/w to whole box
18:51 mircea_popescu as opposed to what.
18:51 asciilifeform as opposed to unix etc abstraction
18:52 asciilifeform there was no pretense of isolation in lispm.
18:52 mircea_popescu i've yet to buy a multiuser box.
18:52 asciilifeform and d00d himself points out re low mtbf. which is sadly tru for ancient box for which ~no replacement parts exist.
18:53 asciilifeform ( is why the rembrandtists buy'em by the dozen, $100,000's worth )
18:53 asciilifeform collectors, in my experience, are wholly http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631728 .
18:53 a111 Logged on 2017-03-23 15:17 mircea_popescu: and this in the best case, a good half simply buy them to deny it to memory strokers in the hope of geting more $$$ later.
18:54 mircea_popescu the point however, is that if this gets going he'll be (justly) motivated to do more work, replacement wise on them etc.
18:54 mircea_popescu the more you pull on the nipples, the bigger the tits grow.
18:54 asciilifeform we're talking about a nonrenewable resource.
18:55 asciilifeform that's already largely spent.
18:55 mircea_popescu not so. the "replace hdd" item is proof of this.
18:55 asciilifeform the hdd is the easy bit.
18:55 asciilifeform go an' replace the 'ivory'.
18:55 mircea_popescu is the easy bit because it was done.
18:55 mircea_popescu there's a very strictly defined ingredient which distinguishes the cargo cult scavenger worlds from the renaissance scavenger worlds.
18:55 asciilifeform not a single 1 of these folx show any symptom whatsoever of having a microscopic part of the most elementary clue re what is involved.
18:56 mircea_popescu the latter pull on the tits. the former do not.
18:56 mircea_popescu 1500 italy was, just as much as 1960 pacifgic islands, a scavenger culture.
18:57 asciilifeform quite mistaken comparison. classical texts were copyable with bare hands.
18:57 asciilifeform unlike silicon.
18:57 mircea_popescu they werre not, no.
18:58 mircea_popescu "bare hands" at the time meant low control high force "i can move rocks hehe".
18:58 mircea_popescu classical text were copyable by hands of higher capital value than today's silicon copier.
18:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu is as always quite eager to lowball the market value of anyone not himself
18:59 mircea_popescu it is a matter of fact, though. a monk was fucking expensive. more so than the modern item in question.
18:59 asciilifeform on my planet , it is ~impossible to hire even ordinary winblowz reversing for anything like sane moneys.
19:00 mircea_popescu no argument on that end.
19:01 asciilifeform also i'll note, there are 2 types of copy, the basic 'soviet' type ( where you life everything incl. dec's 'when you care enough to steal the very best' easter egg inscription ) and the kind where you actually get the ~concept~ out
19:01 mircea_popescu the copy under discussion spanned that gamut.
19:01 asciilifeform the former is helpful in propagating the artifact where it may eventually fall into the hands of the latter
19:01 asciilifeform but strictly that.
19:01 mircea_popescu half the time even copied random strings in.
19:01 asciilifeform this yea
19:02 mircea_popescu but, understand : copying monk cca 1490 was worth, in adjusted terms, more than the current 747 jet trump bought.
19:03 asciilifeform dunno that the market reflected this notion
19:03 mircea_popescu there is a moment in frank history when this third brother raised up in rebellion because his father disinherited him. and he had... no artefacts. this was a huge fucking deal, they had not a single book to know how to organize the state/church.
19:04 mircea_popescu so yea, the market reflected.
19:08 mircea_popescu in the simplest of terms, no afghan goes "we must make peace with trump because he bought himself a jet". at the time, this literally happened, "we can not be at war with these people they have books".
19:10 asciilifeform the turks somehow did just fine 'organizing church and state' without them bookz
19:11 mircea_popescu except not at all without. i personally sat on the steps of oldest university in europe -- in istanbul. 1200s
19:12 asciilifeform i meant the specific ones denied to the rebelling son. ( rather than 'any' )
19:12 asciilifeform turks had own 'second source'.
19:12 mircea_popescu this is not very clear. turks captured cairo because htey held constantinople.
19:13 mircea_popescu this is not happenstance. cairo fell in 1517 BECAUSE constantinople had fallen, and for no other reason.
19:13 mircea_popescu before that, it was "who the fuck are these anons" all the way.
19:14 asciilifeform i thought constantinopol was 'all pasture inside' at that point..?
19:14 mircea_popescu just like symbolics is, neh ?
19:15 asciilifeform liek bolix after the whisperers are done burning through the last ivory's mtbf yea
↖
19:15 mircea_popescu constantinople wasn't so important militarily ; but certainly in the copying monk sense here discussed. even after the venetians sacked it, it still had shit.
19:16 asciilifeform ( collectors, i say, are to bolix as phylloxera is to wine. )
19:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if this was so ( and iirc it was how u. eco painted it , and for some reason i balked ) then yes
19:17 mircea_popescu nobody knows how things were as a matter of fact ; but the notion has plenty of skin on its bones.
19:17 asciilifeform ( imho hard to picture how the 'still had shit' could sit there yet- unpilfered by that point )
19:17 mircea_popescu you have to understand what it is to steal it.
19:17 mircea_popescu women, books, what have you.
19:17 asciilifeform now THIS is very much a thing
19:20 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692922 << i let this slip by somehow. afaik this is STILL unsolved in the open lit. ( 'this' being 'fpga glue for ssd replacement of st506 drive' )
19:20 a111 Logged on 2017-08-02 21:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the strong claim was that he was the guy that finally fitted disk to symbolics.
19:20 mircea_popescu anyway. it was a big deal enough for qayser-i rhim to be a thing.
19:21 asciilifeform ( and that was the EASIEST bit. the console protocol, for instance, is still undocumented; and last time asciilifeform gave a shit, he did not - and still does not - have test equipment fast enough to sample the 200+MHz analogue waveform accurately )
19:23 mircea_popescu http://i.imgur.com/iSZ4r3h.jpg in other news.
19:25 mod6 <+hanbot> mod6 : coupla more typos, if you care, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/jdZ6j/?raw=true << good finds, thanks for reading & reporting!
19:26 mod6 <+hanbot> mod6 : supar nitpick in yer v.pl help, "Mirrors command my only be invoked by itself." /may only << this too, salud.
~ 1 hours 27 minutes ~
20:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/N6hLr/?raw=true
20:54 mircea_popescu in other lulz, "Uber’s lawyer: What is the patent that is left in the case, as you understand it? Page: I have no idea." (from google-uber suit, via #bolix).
21:08 shinohai https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-bcc.html <<< kek
↖
21:09 mircea_popescu awww
21:17 mod6 <+asciilifeform> aka 'herniators' << lol
21:22 asciilifeform lol asciilifeform kicked from #bolix, without even saying word
21:23 * asciilifeform goes to see why
21:25 asciilifeform remains mystery.
~ 35 minutes ~
22:01 mircea_popescu in other silent joys, http://68.media.tumblr.com/b7de212ce1b86a6249a5282577b807e8/tumblr_o7woe8dcgO1u9uov7o1_500.gif
22:01 asciilifeform lol i think we did this one!
22:01 mod6 niiice
22:01 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-03#1693130 << poor buggerz, chinese hotel must've unplugged..
22:01 a111 Logged on 2017-08-03 01:08 shinohai: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-bcc.html <<< kek
22:03 mircea_popescu prolly.
22:03 mod6 Remy Le Croix in that gif
22:04 mircea_popescu mod6 aha
22:04 mircea_popescu shorther than a duck's knee.
22:04 mod6 hehe
22:04 mod6 hottie
22:05 mircea_popescu talented fo sho
~ 18 minutes ~
22:23 BingoBoingo !~ later tell cazalla Oh hai thur
22:23 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 15 minutes ~
23:38 asciilifeform https://symbolics.lisp.engineer/goals << in other lulz.
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
23:39 asciilifeform phf ^ is he one of yours ?
↖
23:42 mircea_popescu is bolix very slow at rsa ?
23:42 asciilifeform not particularly
23:42 asciilifeform i'd estimate roughly 386 equiv
23:43 mircea_popescu lulz from the dood suggesting "in between server", http://eschatologist.net/blog/ : ""Italian author Umberto Eco defined “Ur-Fascism” in an article in the New York Review of Books in June, 1995. It can be distilled into fourteen points. It’s worth taking a look at these to see just what our society is dealing with when it comes to “alt-right” Neo-Nazis and the ideology they promote.
23:43 mircea_popescu somehow herdemocracy pantsuits very visible among the lisp crowd.
23:43 asciilifeform very very visible
23:44 asciilifeform tho it ain't so much 'lisp crowd' as much as californirasts.
23:44 mircea_popescu i guess.
23:45 asciilifeform aka 'bay aryans'
23:45 mircea_popescu anyway, rather lulzy nonsense. "because it rejects the decay started with the age of pantsuit, it therefore is irrationalist". because totally, the french communists invented thinking.
23:45 mircea_popescu perhaps also invented fucking and drinking water.
23:45 asciilifeform 'The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”' lol!!
23:46 mircea_popescu which is a subtle shift from what mp actually says on the topic. primo strawman.
23:46 asciilifeform predictable shift.
23:46 asciilifeform ( on all 14 )
23:46 mircea_popescu well yes.
23:46 asciilifeform where was that trilema...
23:47 asciilifeform !#s sanity dogma
23:47 a111 5 results for "sanity dogma", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=sanity%20dogma
23:47 mircea_popescu of course, #14 becomes problematic seeing how the general pantsuit objection is "too complex".
23:48 asciilifeform 'Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”' didjaknow!
23:49 * mircea_popescu attempted to leave comment ("You're not very smart, are you. You'd like to be, obviously. But that's not the same thing."). on every attempt, a different field is supposedly not filled.
23:49 mircea_popescu and then eventually, "internal error or misconfiguration"
23:50 mircea_popescu why do i even bother with all the nitwits.
23:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re rsa, i'm looking forward to msdos ffa test.
23:52 asciilifeform ( afaik there is not a 16bit gnat/djgpp. but 32bit with prot.mode extender oughta work ok )
23:53 asciilifeform dos box cum laser is still imho 'state of art' re airgaptrons.
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