| 00:00 |
asciilifeform |
it ain't x86 either |
| 00:01 |
asciilifeform |
nor anything like a plausible stack or heap turd. |
| 00:02 |
asciilifeform |
0 anything resembling human strings in there, either. |
| 00:02 |
asciilifeform |
it is ~= FUCKGOATS output. |
| 00:04 |
asciilifeform |
http://ec2-52-37-126-112.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com/falstaff pretty useless also. |
| |
~ 4 hours 2 minutes ~ |
| 04:07 |
deedbot |
http://cascadianhacker.com/arrival << CH - Arrival |
| |
~ 3 hours 4 minutes ~ |
| 07:11 |
trinque |
^ I'm gonna spoil the shit out of this one. It ends with the chick learning the magic words SHE KNEW ALL ALONG because aliens fly their heptafold asses across the cosmos to make her the god-snowflake she is in her true self. This SO THAT humans can help teh alienz in 3000 years. |
| 07:12 |
trinque |
"towards purpose" being disembowled, it tries to put the guts back in with paradoxical time travel stories |
| |
~ 43 minutes ~ |
| 07:56 |
mircea_popescu |
but it was all worth it! |
| 08:08 |
mircea_popescu |
this is pretty fucking lulzy : https://archive.is/V85X6 tl;dr obama thinks he'd have won if he had run again. |
| 08:10 |
shinohai |
Obama 2020! |
| 08:10 |
mircea_popescu |
there's some talk of impeaching him next year just so he doesn't get to run for any office ever again |
| |
↖ |
| 08:10 |
mircea_popescu |
(such as the supreme court if the dems get the presidency again) |
| 08:12 |
mircea_popescu |
trinque btw, the cinematic productions of teh empire in the past 3-5 years are showing very specific distress. ~everything is really a redo of "black mirror", it's shockingly this very specifig thing : politico-ideological refuge. |
| 08:13 |
mircea_popescu |
obviously cinema has a strong escapism vein, but historically the escapism is directed towards poverty and individual restrictions. you need a septicemic soviet union for it to be "a source of hope for the aparatchicks" |
| 08:15 |
mircea_popescu |
meanwhile back at identity-verifying camp, http://68.media.tumblr.com/65057cca2a7992efab8f29adddf7bfff/tumblr_inline_ocj7biiuIP1rugnuj_1280.jpg |
| 08:22 |
mircea_popescu |
fuck, would you look at this guy! |
| 08:22 |
mircea_popescu |
"Arrival is an excruciating ode to the holy mother's spring sacrifice. Instead of dazzling with feats of shoostment, punching, swordplay, or skillful maneuvering of ICEmobiles, Arrival wallops one incessantly with the great sacrifice of parenthood and just how far woman will go for her babies, especially if that baby is everyone and the sacrifice just the guy she hooked up with that one time when everyone got real stressed ou |
| 08:22 |
mircea_popescu |
t about aliens." |
| 08:23 |
mircea_popescu |
dude has it, clearly. ben_vulpes will produce one gem per article, he's got a geological process going on in his skull and the result is these geodes of an article whereby among the silt there's gems. |
| 08:26 |
mircea_popescu |
"JUST THE <fill in> SHE <fill in> THAT ONE TIME WHEN EVERYONE <fill in>" is 100% of the moral/ethical mental process of every usian under 30. that's the whole thing. just the thought they have one time when everyone's looking down at them. thassit. |
| 08:31 |
mircea_popescu |
meanwhile the female mind, having betrayed the faith she owes the male, is taking refuge in teary-eyed imaginations of "sacrifices" ; in a defensive paleocortex process veheheheery well known by the survivors of the communist countries. "oh, those were the times, I HAD TO SACRIFICE" says every despicable old quisling whore. mno bitch, you didn't have to sacrifice anything, you're just a blob of fat. blobs of fat don't "sacrif |
| 08:31 |
mircea_popescu |
ice", they just get bought and sold. |
| |
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~ |
| 09:41 |
asciilifeform |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592544 << impeach ex official?! |
| 09:41 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-29 13:10 mircea_popescu: there's some talk of impeaching him next year just so he doesn't get to run for any office ever again |
| 09:42 |
mircea_popescu |
sure. |
| 09:43 |
asciilifeform |
iirc you gotta actually hold office for impeachment in usa. but -- ianal. |
| 09:44 |
mircea_popescu |
what, does it say in the constitution they can't ? |
| 09:44 |
mircea_popescu |
trump has a healthy majority and plenty of people hate the dems. even themselves, these days. |
| 09:44 |
mircea_popescu |
"first black president" was "a great victory for the progressives", then "only nigger ever lost in the white house was impeached!" will be "a great victory for the patriots", this is how politics works - everyone gets the maximal great victories possible. |
| 09:44 |
mircea_popescu |
congress shall make no law limiting the laws congress can make later on. |
| 09:45 |
mircea_popescu |
aka "a parliament is that body of men that while in session guarantees noone's property, dignity or life are secure." |
| 09:48 |
asciilifeform |
aaah if we're talking about fyootoor laws, then 'don't impeach! impale!' |
| 09:48 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, whether they manage to eat this particular potato or not, the fact remains : obama as a political construct is more valuable impeached than not impeached. that's pretty much the whole story, not like there's an actual human behind the construct. |
| 09:48 |
mircea_popescu |
ie, "there's a potato there". |
| 09:49 |
asciilifeform |
!~google don't impeach impale |
| 09:49 |
jhvh1 |
asciilifeform: Don't Impeach ; Impale | Alternet: <http://www.alternet.org/story/33598/don't_impeach%253B_impale>; Will Durst: Don't Impeach ; Impale | Uppity Wisconsin: <http://www.uppitywis.org/will_durst_dont_impeach_impale>; Don't Impeach ; Impale - Politics and religion - Quarter To Three ...: <https://forum.quartertothree.com/t/dont-impeach-impale/25069%3Fpage%3D2> |
| 09:49 |
mircea_popescu |
heh |
| 09:50 |
mircea_popescu |
will durst raided a thesaurus, nobody complained. apparently back in 2006 this was ok. |
| 09:54 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/the-problems-of-the-female-notion-of-sacrifice/ << Trilema - The problems of [the female notion of] sacrifice |
| 10:08 |
mircea_popescu |
anyone wanna read a mp-rewrite of coetzee's disgrace ? |
| 10:08 |
mircea_popescu |
this latest exchange kinda inspired me to do it. |
| 10:10 |
asciilifeform |
in re yesterday's lel, http://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-cybersecurity-link-used-by-obama.html |
| 10:15 |
mircea_popescu |
heh. so bahamas shared his livejournal link with her flame, except putin didn't give a shit so now she's messaging all her friends on instagram about it ? |
| 10:17 |
asciilifeform |
approx |
| 10:26 |
shinohai |
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rNiuNkb5wPg/Uh4W8W0kReI/AAAAAAAAAkc/xM2E9eSkXYs/s1600/hotline-pentagon2013.jpg <<< So if I click here, we unfriend Russia ? |
| 10:27 |
asciilifeform |
vintage lulz ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542468 ) continued! >> http://blog.opendime.com/post/155026798632/announcing-opendime-v2-now-genuine-verified << 'we’ve added a special security chip, the sole purpose of which is to defeat any attempt at building counterfeit or cloned Opendime' |
| |
↖ |
| 10:27 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-09-15 18:39 asciilifeform: 'Yes. It's like a piggy-bank. You must destroy it to spend the funds. At first that seems expensive and wasteful, but it's a key part of our security model: you can trust a sealed Opendime, and it's obvious when it's been opened.' etc. is a lie. |
| 10:27 |
asciilifeform |
gotta luvvv these folx |
| 10:30 |
asciilifeform |
'Secure authentication and product validation device datasheet summary. The complete document is available under NDA. For more information, please contact your local Atmel sales office.' << lel |
| 10:35 |
mircea_popescu |
atmel ?! |
| 10:35 |
mircea_popescu |
will this be the token of barbie prostitution ? |
| 10:35 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: the various derps (i've lost count) all use the same seek00000ritychip |
| 10:35 |
asciilifeform |
since at least early 2014 |
| 10:36 |
mircea_popescu |
myeah. |
| 10:39 |
asciilifeform |
'This is physical Bitcoin as it was meant to be: just hand it to someone and they've got it. Pass it on multiple times! As simple as a handshake. No miner fees, no confirmation delays.' |
| 10:39 |
asciilifeform |
this lolcow species will never die, will it. |
| 10:41 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/a-novel-once-called-disgrace/ << Trilema - A novel once called Disgrace |
| 10:41 |
BingoBoingo |
<mircea_popescu> (such as the supreme court if the dems get the presidency again) << Well that's why he was cool with Hillary in 2016 but not 2008 or 2012, next job 4lyfe |
| 10:41 |
mircea_popescu |
aha |
| 10:43 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.stellaw.info/blog/2015/9/26/case-wallet-teardown << while we're on subj of 'bitcoin hardware' |
| 10:44 |
asciilifeform |
what a horror |
| 10:47 |
BingoBoingo |
Hussein as a political construct *needed* enshrined on court, preferably in Scalia's seat. Twas why there was no big push to vacancy fill. |
| 10:53 |
mircea_popescu |
kinda wherefore impeachment. only way to castrate the construct. |
| 10:54 |
mircea_popescu |
by winter of 2017 - or even the summer if another katrina hits - the regime will need to make moves and the populace will be well hungry and angry enough. |
| 10:54 |
mircea_popescu |
but hey, maybe he escapes to kenya. |
| |
~ 59 minutes ~ |
| 11:54 |
asciilifeform |
in other lulz, gnat's standard library apparently includes a compact implementation of... SPITBOL. |
| 11:54 |
asciilifeform |
https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/g-spipat__adb.htm << subj |
| 11:57 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.drdobbs.com/cpp/some-programs-are-poorly-designed-on-pur/232300070 << see also |
| 11:58 |
asciilifeform |
'With just one programming technique, the SPITBOL compiler violated several principles of good programming...' |
| 11:59 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-for-a-man-of-his-age/ << Trilema - Disgrace - For a man of his age |
| 12:04 |
mats |
neato |
| |
~ 33 minutes ~ |
| 12:38 |
asciilifeform |
'As the deadline for handing in India’s decommissioned 500 and 1,000 rupee notes arrives, the government has signed a law jailing those who continue holding them. ... The Indian Cabinet has cleared a so-called ordinance, transferring liability to consumers and away from banks and authorities after a final cut-off point of March 31. Consumers could thereafter land themselves in jail for four years. Regular consumers only have until |
| 12:38 |
asciilifeform |
tomorrow however to deposit the now officially “banned” notes.' |
| |
~ 26 minutes ~ |
| 13:04 |
jurov |
everyone check your drawers to be sure |
| 13:06 |
phf |
i think they got replaced with "new series" of 500 and 2000. also there's certainly no confusion. the whole transition was a clusterfuck. they introduced new series like two months ago |
| 13:07 |
phf |
since then, cash shortages, protests, the usual stuff. the obvious solution "make it illegal", what a bunch of babus |
| 13:09 |
asciilifeform |
planned devaluations are one of the inevitable death agonies of a collapsing monkeystan, quite like, e.g., rolling mains blackouts. |
| 13:14 |
mircea_popescu |
sooo this morning's definitive breakfast is homemade bread, sliced, atop which spread avocado, on which thinly sliced roast beef, on which brie slices, on which kimchi. |
| 13:15 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform you know california has had rolling blackouts since the 80s. |
| 13:17 |
asciilifeform |
aha, as described by uncle al and others. |
| 13:17 |
asciilifeform |
north kr - even longer!111 |
| 13:25 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway, india looks ripe for a blowout and habitability within a decade, so. |
| 13:25 |
mircea_popescu |
if it weren't so fucking hot. |
| 13:26 |
asciilifeform |
you would have to terraform it. |
| 13:26 |
asciilifeform |
like africa. |
| 13:30 |
jurov |
large swathes of india are foothills of himalayas, one can surely find some place with acceptable climate |
| 13:30 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: himalayas have the other problem -- the one described in mircea_popescu's article about the chile scam |
| 13:31 |
jurov |
i once met a indian lady in germany, i asked her how she's fine with german climate, and she explained me this |
| 13:31 |
asciilifeform |
http://trilema.com/2014/so-the-dollar-vigilante-scam-ring-is-going-to-jail << subj |
| 13:31 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov look into it, there's nothing sane. somehoiw the whole fucking continent manages to be 35 degrees |
| 13:31 |
mircea_popescu |
then we wonder why the most famous indians are the gypsies. |
| 13:33 |
asciilifeform |
( though i do have a few nitpicks re: mircea_popescu's 'Do you have any idea what it costs to drill for water in that sort of clearly basaltic substrate ? Look it up. And then, IF, and that's a huge if, you're lucky enough to find water, you'll be stuck pumping it five thousand feet. Which means each cubic meter of water will cost you, even should you have the perfect engine, a megajoule and a half' -- there'd be no reason to get the |
| 13:33 |
asciilifeform |
water from anywhere but the ~top~ of the peak. but you would have to somehow generate mains current, etc.) |
| 13:34 |
mircea_popescu |
you mean what, collect snow ? |
| 13:34 |
asciilifeform |
snow, rain, aha |
| 13:34 |
asciilifeform |
melt -- with reactor, how else. |
| 13:34 |
mircea_popescu |
you have no idea how vulnerable this makes you. |
| 13:34 |
mircea_popescu |
what if a volcano erupts ? |
| 13:34 |
asciilifeform |
what if piano falls on head. |
| 13:34 |
asciilifeform |
and then anvil. |
| 13:34 |
asciilifeform |
can happen in manhattan! |
| 13:34 |
mircea_popescu |
not NEXT to you. what a volcano erupts anywhere. |
| 13:35 |
asciilifeform |
(then -- asteroid, for good measure) |
| 13:35 |
mircea_popescu |
few years ago a quarter of all flights had to be grounded because some volcano spit out ash in the upper atmosphere. |
| 13:35 |
mircea_popescu |
you're ready to drink all the sulphur the earth has in store for you ? |
| 13:35 |
asciilifeform |
were grounded for... 3 days ? |
| 13:35 |
asciilifeform |
2? |
| 13:35 |
mircea_popescu |
yes, because afterwards the ash settled on naive settler's water sources. |
| 13:35 |
asciilifeform |
and noshit.jpg, you distill the water, with selfsame reactor. |
| 13:35 |
asciilifeform |
twice. |
| 13:36 |
mircea_popescu |
by now it's cheaper to lure vagrants in and suck their blood./ |
| 13:36 |
asciilifeform |
naturally you also do this. |
| 13:36 |
mircea_popescu |
write the novel, i'll read |
| 13:36 |
mircea_popescu |
just dun wanna live there. |
| 13:36 |
asciilifeform |
hey it's a better deal than 'live on the poles' or 'under ocean' or 'on moon' |
| 13:37 |
mircea_popescu |
so far i live - with women. |
| 13:37 |
mircea_popescu |
who wants, can have the poles. |
| 13:37 |
asciilifeform |
has ~usable atmosphere. which beats the shit out of the usual 'colonization' fantasies. |
| 13:37 |
mircea_popescu |
there is that. |
| 13:38 |
asciilifeform |
inhospitability to aircraft can also be a win. |
| 13:38 |
mircea_popescu |
here'\s the thing : if inhospitability to aircraft is a win, you have serious problems in other places that you should attend to. |
| 13:38 |
asciilifeform |
make sure to tell this to the pashtuns |
| 13:38 |
mircea_popescu |
much like if a boy's mating strategy consists of seeking out the places where no other boys go and waiting for girls to straggle in. |
| |
↖ |
| 13:39 |
mircea_popescu |
(which, truly, is what most engineers are doing with their lives, the engineering being just a pretext) |
| 13:40 |
asciilifeform |
not everybody wants to be involved with mega-empires, on the giving or on the receiving end. in that light, the pashtun mountains are every bit a 'high-tech' deterrent as a SAM battery. |
| |
↖ |
| 13:41 |
asciilifeform |
(works best, afaik, as 'part of a balanced diet' with rockets,etc, naturally.) |
| 13:43 |
mircea_popescu |
you'll find a mini-empire, like that woman who left her infant daughter to sun on the porch and came back to discover the child covered in fireants. |
| 13:44 |
asciilifeform |
'nobody promised 'no kings'' |
| 13:44 |
asciilifeform |
only -- no usg. |
| 13:44 |
mircea_popescu |
the usg has no aesthetic content |
| 13:44 |
mircea_popescu |
which is to say it is the shape of the hole in which it fell, naught else. |
| 13:45 |
mircea_popescu |
the soviets were entirely not different. |
| 13:45 |
asciilifeform |
in the pashtun sense contemplated, they were exactly the same thing, 'they think they own the world because they can make jets' |
| 13:46 |
asciilifeform |
'and now they come to tell us in which hole to fuck the goat, and to consider transition to sheep, and to send opium west, not east, ' etc. |
| 13:49 |
mircea_popescu |
in all sense they're the same thing. once one's too poor for art, his house will be exactly like his neighbour's |
| 13:49 |
mircea_popescu |
and his woman will literally be his neighbour's. |
| 13:49 |
asciilifeform |
'sharing is caring' (tm) (r) (usg) |
| 13:51 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-yet-neither-he-nor-she/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Yet neither he nor she |
| 14:00 |
davout |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592457 <<< such perversion! |
| 14:00 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-29 03:06 asciilifeform: socket.c:(.text.__gnat_gethostbyaddr+0x1a): warning: Using 'gethostbyaddr_r' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking |
| 14:00 |
asciilifeform |
davout: it was exactly the same snore as in early trb |
| 14:02 |
asciilifeform |
the 'riddle' unlocks very easily, scroll to the end of https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/g-socthi__ads.htm . |
| 14:02 |
davout |
god, i meant to quote mircea_popescu's breakfast |
| 14:02 |
asciilifeform |
(whole standard lib is on www, and surprisingly readable) |
| 14:02 |
asciilifeform |
davout: lel |
| 14:02 |
mircea_popescu |
speak not to me of perversions, frenchie! |
| 14:04 |
davout |
speaking of perversions i tried kraken's "margin trading" feature |
| 14:04 |
davout |
it is broken in such retarded ways i'm wondering whether i'd have been better off using bitstamp's string'd cans |
| 14:05 |
davout |
apparently these fucktards expect one to borrow assets to fucking close a position |
| 14:06 |
davout |
say i borrow 10 btc to short on margin, i sell those for 10kEUR @ 1000 EUR/BTC |
| 14:07 |
davout |
somehow, i now need to "borrow" 10kEUR to liquidate the position, because somehow, the result of the sale doesn't exist! |
| 14:08 |
davout |
it doesn't occur to their two-cans-and-a-string fork that it can use the same fucking 10kEUR to buy back the asset I borrowed |
| 14:08 |
asciilifeform |
noshit it 'doesn't exist', how can trading imaginary coinz make actual profit. |
| 14:09 |
davout |
when these monkeys get their shit rubbed in their face their answer is, I shit you not, "this isn't a bug, but we'll update our documentation to match the actual behaviour" |
| 14:10 |
asciilifeform |
why was davout using a mtgox again |
| 14:10 |
davout |
they fail to make the intellectual link between "software doesn't actually behave according to its documented behaviour" with "bug" |
| 14:10 |
asciilifeform |
'i put my hand in bear trap. it snapped shut and hurt quite a bit. i reported bug. the trapper said 'feature'.' |
| 14:10 |
davout |
asciilifeform: apparently "not hacked in a few years" is the best you can get these days |
| 14:11 |
asciilifeform |
how about ye olde 'hodl' |
| 14:11 |
asciilifeform |
also nothacked.jpg |
| 14:11 |
trinque |
still gotta buy somewhere |
| 14:12 |
asciilifeform |
buy -- from humans |
| 14:12 |
asciilifeform |
(buying plane ticket, and visiting mircea_popescu , supposing that he is still buying usd for something, is probably in the end cheaper than 'goxing') |
| 14:13 |
mircea_popescu |
davout you had it right the first time : what you bought doesn't exist. |
| 14:13 |
davout |
i'll probably end up sentencing jesse powell to death, depending on the way they handle this |
| 14:14 |
mircea_popescu |
kraken ? they were hacked, plenty, what are you talking about. |
| 14:15 |
davout |
really? |
| 14:16 |
davout |
i vaguely remember something, but i think i'd remember had it been something as glorious as goxfinex |
| 14:19 |
davout |
i should probably spend some time actually documenting it instead of ranting here |
| 14:19 |
mircea_popescu |
wasn't ever glorious. |
| 14:20 |
mircea_popescu |
but as you nobody gave much a shit, kraken always was the hollow pretense of nobody in particular. |
| 14:30 |
BingoBoingo |
!~ticker --market all |
| 14:30 |
jhvh1 |
BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 958.99, vol: 9179.51998182 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 935.0, vol: 5241.41338 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 957.54, vol: 19677.04837435 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 960.0, vol: 3251.57836791 | Volume-weighted last average: 954.94740532 |
| 14:39 |
asciilifeform |
!!up fromloper |
| 14:39 |
deedbot |
fromloper voiced for 30 minutes. |
| 14:40 |
asciilifeform |
eh, why to even bother putting the link in. |
| 14:40 |
davout |
short up was short |
| 14:41 |
davout |
obviously that's what she said. |
| 14:41 |
asciilifeform |
davout: that one was almost record holder! ~ten whole seconds |
| 14:41 |
davout |
maybe next time they accidentally rip on the keyboard or something |
| 14:41 |
davout |
pr0gress!11 |
| 14:42 |
asciilifeform |
now we know how spanish priests quit convertin' and joined in the target practice sport with the normal conquistadores. |
| 14:54 |
deedbot |
http://qntra.net/2016/12/hussein-bahamas-continues-picking-fights-as-term-dwindles/ << Qntra - Hussein Bahamas Continues Picking Fights As Term Dwindles |
| 14:54 |
shinohai |
lo BingoBoingo ...latest Qntra. Bahamas gonna make the Bundy cows a Nashnul monument. |
| 15:00 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-what-he-throws-together/ << Trilema - Disgrace - What he throws together |
| 15:04 |
asciilifeform |
'Mr Obama also announced the US will declassify technical information related to Russian cyber activity to "help network defenders in the United States and abroad identify, detect, and disrupt Russia's global campaign of malicious cyber activities".' |
| 15:04 |
asciilifeform |
lulzy. |
| 15:08 |
mats |
the butthurt continues |
| 15:11 |
mircea_popescu |
this should be great. |
| 15:12 |
mircea_popescu |
he might be working off some notebook bush left stuffed between the actual books in the wh library, because i seem to recall a declassification of technical details pertaining to iraq's wmds also being in the works for lo these many ten+ years. |
| 15:17 |
asciilifeform |
'A Finnish court has sentenced the former head of Helsinki's anti-drugs police to 10 years in prison for drug-smuggling and other offences. ... It ranks as the second least-corrupt country, after Denmark, in the global index compiled by Transparency International.' << in other reich lulz. |
| 15:20 |
mircea_popescu |
i thought that was the obedience index. |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
| 15:43 |
mod6 |
I have a bit of a question here.. |
| 15:44 |
mod6 |
so going back to our discussion regarding: a->b->c->d all signed by x, if 'c' is removed then the flow should be a->b and now 'd' has become orphaned. the correct strictness, 'v' (wot-variant) drops 'c' out all together. |
| 15:45 |
mod6 |
the reason, I'm finding, that my previous patch still listed a->b->d in the flow, is because 'd' got picked up as a root. and the reason it does is because at this point, it has no antecedents. |
| 15:46 |
mod6 |
one way, I've found, to solve this is to ensure that any root in my list of roots, must be a "true root", in such that if the vpatch's every 'a'='false', then it is a "true root". |
| 15:47 |
mod6 |
is this proper? |
| 15:57 |
phf |
yes |
| 15:59 |
phf |
also it's called "genesis" |
| 16:03 |
mod6 |
phf: ok, see, there is a hack i could have put in, instead. where i just ensure that my root is named like /genesis/. But what if someguy calls his root, 1000 years from now, xyz.vpatch. |
| 16:03 |
mod6 |
Then he's got a problem. So i felt like this type of checking, is more strict. And if it is proper, I will proceed. |
| 16:03 |
asciilifeform |
mod6: 'genesis' means 'all antecedents are 'false'n rather than 'no valid antecedents' |
| 16:03 |
phf |
^ |
| 16:04 |
ben_vulpes |
mod6: moreover the general case is looking to be "project-genesis.vpatch" |
| |
↖ |
| 16:04 |
mod6 |
asciilifeform: sweet! then i think im in good shape. |
| 16:04 |
phf |
i don't mean that the patch is called "genesis", i mean that the concept is called genesis, so there's no need for new nomenclature like "true root" |
| 16:04 |
mod6 |
ben_vulpes: so you think, what i'm calling the 'hack' to be just as good or more appropriate here? i'd rather check, personally. |
| 16:04 |
mod6 |
http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace5.txt << here's a sample of what i'm saying |
| 16:05 |
ben_vulpes |
nono, it's not a hack to do here |
| 16:05 |
phf |
(defun genesisp (vpatch) |
| 16:05 |
phf |
(every (lambda (hunk) (null (from-hash hunk))) (hunks vpatch))) |
| 16:05 |
phf |
|
| 16:06 |
mod6 |
im not sure that i get this ^ but... i think we're all saying the same thing. |
| 16:08 |
asciilifeform |
there is NO reason to 'enmagic' the string 'genesis' |
| 16:08 |
mod6 |
<+asciilifeform> mod6: 'genesis' means 'all antecedents are 'false'n rather than 'no valid antecedents' << just to re-iterate, does 'genesis' also apply to 'root' ? |
| 16:08 |
asciilifeform |
ever. |
| 16:08 |
asciilifeform |
i can name a genesis xyz.vpatch. |
| 16:08 |
mod6 |
right ^ |
| 16:08 |
mod6 |
this is what i wanted to avoid. |
| 16:08 |
mod6 |
so i'll check, and accumulate roots that have only hashes that = 'false'. |
| 16:09 |
phf |
mod6: there's no such thing as "root". there's only genesis. you find all patches that satisfy the genesis requirement ("all antecedents are false") and you build your graph down from there |
| 16:09 |
mod6 |
this is not true according to v99 from alf ^ |
| 16:10 |
mod6 |
"# It is entirely possible to have more than one root! ... exactly how, is left as an exercise for readers." |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| 16:10 |
phf |
well, then alf is being sloppy with his terminology |
| 16:12 |
phf |
root is a compsci term for a the topmost element of a tree. genesis is a vtronic term for the origin. on imlementation level they are identical, and generally describe the same concept, but in general "root" being "genesis" is an implementation detail |
| 16:14 |
mod6 |
agree. just trying to be 100% positive I'm doing the right thing, before I do it. And it is discussion worthy imho. |
| 16:15 |
ben_vulpes |
in entirely unrelated microsoftery, http://archive.is/UrLGx |
| 16:15 |
phf |
mod6: we're on the same page |
| 16:16 |
mod6 |
werd. thx for your input. |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 16:33 |
mircea_popescu |
the point where genesis has for an antecedent "false" and nothing else is imo controlling. |
| 16:34 |
mircea_popescu |
no patch can be elevated to the status of genesis ; if it is a genesis of something it knows this, and the way it knows this is through the antecedent being false |
| 16:34 |
mircea_popescu |
which makes alf's objection to the mega discussion re antecedent enforcing etc weaker than he cares for it to be : turns out we ALREADY have the state machine. |
| 16:37 |
mircea_popescu |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592756 << that is historical nonsense that got hammered out in a large discussion when it was actually brought to the forum. |
| 16:37 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-29 21:10 mod6: "# It is entirely possible to have more than one root! ... exactly how, is left as an exercise for readers." |
| 16:38 |
ben_vulpes |
mircea_popescu: have a link handy? |
| 16:39 |
mircea_popescu |
just search for me screaming "there's only one genesis" and frothing at the mouth. |
| |
↖ |
| 16:39 |
mod6 |
<+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592756 << that is historical nonsense that got hammered out in a large discussion when it was actually brought to the forum. << ok |
| 16:39 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-29 21:10 mod6: "# It is entirely possible to have more than one root! ... exactly how, is left as an exercise for readers." |
| 16:40 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-he-pauses-blank-incomprehension/ << Trilema - Disgrace - He pauses. Blank incomprehension. |
| 16:42 |
pete_dushenski |
anyone else have nodes getting blackholed with 'received getdata for: block 0000000xxxx' ? it's getting tiresome. |
| 16:42 |
mircea_popescu |
you mean ancient blocks ? |
| 16:43 |
pete_dushenski |
http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/X8TUd/?raw=true << ? |
| 16:47 |
pete_dushenski |
the above is a snippet from the debug.log and the result is a ~frozen machine. doesn't respond to rpc commands the way machines blackholed by, say, 'askfor tx' does. |
| 16:50 |
pete_dushenski |
now-frozen machine has lots of cores, lots of ram, and is running trb. |
| 17:04 |
pete_dushenski |
but ya, looks like ancient blocks in and around the 300k mark |
| 17:05 |
shinohai |
mircea_popescu will be saddened to know the inventor of the red Solo cup has died. |
| 17:05 |
deedbot |
http://fr.anco.is/2016/two-cans-one-string-kraken-edition << fr.anco.is - Two cans, one string. Kraken edition. |
| 17:05 |
mircea_popescu |
pete_dushenski why is your node asking for these ? or is it ? |
| 17:05 |
mircea_popescu |
shinohai the who ?! |
| 17:06 |
pete_dushenski |
mircea_popescu: i have sincerely nfi why my node is asking for these. it's at ~full height. |
| 17:06 |
mircea_popescu |
hm. |
| 17:06 |
davout |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592737 <<< convention over configuration! trollface.jpg |
| 17:06 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-29 21:04 ben_vulpes: mod6: moreover the general case is looking to be "project-genesis.vpatch" |
| 17:06 |
shinohai |
The guy that gave us the red cups that were prominently displayed in pr0n listings at one point this year. |
| 17:14 |
* |
davout is finally done writing the kraken's team indictment |
| 17:21 |
pete_dushenski |
http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-02#1184469 << canonical 'getdata' lulz, never afaik rectified, and an evident blackhole vector. |
| 17:21 |
a111 |
Logged on 2015-07-02 20:44 ascii_field: 'getdata is used in response to inv... ...t can be used to retrieve transactions, but only if they are in the memory pool or relay set - arbitrary access to transactions in the chain is not allowed to avoid having clients start to depend on nodes having full transaction indexes (which modern nodes do not).' |
| 17:21 |
ben_vulpes |
welcome back davout |
| 17:21 |
ben_vulpes |
pete_dushenski: asking or being asked? |
| 17:22 |
pete_dushenski |
the latter |
| 17:22 |
* |
davout hands ben_vulpes some wine |
| 17:23 |
ben_vulpes |
local pressings any good? |
| 17:26 |
ben_vulpes |
davout: this is sop for american retail brokers as well. even were you to have the cash on hand to buy the underlying outright unless you jump through very specific and hard to find hoops retail brokerages will lend you the capital to take the position you intended to enter under your own steam |
| 17:26 |
ben_vulpes |
marvelous trick |
| 17:27 |
davout |
ben_vulpes: it's even worse here, it's to *exit* a position |
| 17:28 |
ben_vulpes |
shoulda said "looks like a variant on another classic retail scam" |
| 17:28 |
ben_vulpes |
surely you need to borrow /more/ money |
| 17:39 |
asciilifeform |
in other lulz, https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8099-how_do_we_know_our_prngs_work_properly |
| 17:40 |
asciilifeform |
seems like there is an entire series of these . |
| 17:40 |
ben_vulpes |
did ccc publish transcripts for these somewhere? |
| 17:40 |
asciilifeform |
not afaik |
| 17:40 |
asciilifeform |
maybe jurov , who saw it fit to share these with the heathens instead of with us, knows. |
| 17:41 |
jurov |
i know of no transcripts, just youtube autosubtitles, and only few vids are on yt |
| 17:41 |
asciilifeform |
unlike the earlier film, klebanov -- afaik -- really ~did~ find this booby. |
| 17:42 |
ben_vulpes |
in other unholy file formats: https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296.pdf |
| 17:44 |
ben_vulpes |
some tiny amount of finger pointing followed by owasp best practices |
| 17:44 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: lel, 1 single 'yara' sig |
| 17:44 |
asciilifeform |
for... a php infector? |
| 17:44 |
ben_vulpes |
thought you might find it amusing |
| 17:44 |
asciilifeform |
i can picture the intern who was ordered to produce this gem |
| 17:45 |
ben_vulpes |
"obab demands we say something nasty about the russkies. so...hey php is vulnerable and shit" |
| 17:45 |
asciilifeform |
'write the memo' 'i have no clearance, and no dirt' 'WRITE THE MEMO' |
| 17:45 |
ben_vulpes |
pretty mich |
| 17:46 |
asciilifeform |
also what is one to do with the list of internal usg names for various trojans |
| 17:46 |
asciilifeform |
i can try to stuff it up arse, but it is full |
| 17:46 |
ben_vulpes |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580182 |
| 17:46 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-09 02:38 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform should probably poop more often |
| 17:46 |
asciilifeform |
'Tsar Team' << ahahaha |
| 17:46 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: nah, full of the previous installment of same |
| 17:47 |
ben_vulpes |
asciilifeform: is practicing retention? |
| 17:47 |
ben_vulpes |
i find a relaxed colon makes for a relaxed thinker |
| 17:47 |
ben_vulpes |
'pucker only in times of stress', i say |
| 17:47 |
asciilifeform |
needs very relaxed, to admit pile of obummery |
| 17:48 |
ben_vulpes |
aha, air gaping |
| 17:49 |
asciilifeform |
meanwhile, watch out for treachery of 'OLDBAIT' , 'SEADADDY', 'Operation Pawn Storm', and of course 'Powershell backdoor' (OH NOEZ!!!!) |
| 17:50 |
ben_vulpes |
run moar macos or how does it go |
| |
↖ |
| 17:50 |
pete_dushenski |
in other inequalities, latest taleb : https://medium.com/@nntaleb/inequality-and-skin-in-the-game-d8f00bc0cb46#_edn3.14k1h647w |
| 17:50 |
mircea_popescu |
pete_dushenski there's really no good reason to not serve arbitrart txn data. the fact that "modern" prb nodes can't support this is entirely their doom. |
| 17:50 |
pete_dushenski |
fuckin medium tho seriously. ugliest urls evar. |
| 17:51 |
mircea_popescu |
of course this also requires better indexing than currently done. but anyway |
| 17:51 |
asciilifeform |
which data |
| 17:52 |
mircea_popescu |
transactions, not in the memory pool or relay set |
| 17:52 |
ben_vulpes |
wait, what is the difference between mempool and relay set? |
| 17:52 |
mircea_popescu |
don't ask, live longer. |
| 17:52 |
asciilifeform |
no diff on trb |
| 17:52 |
ben_vulpes |
cool |
| 17:52 |
ben_vulpes |
gross |
| 17:53 |
ben_vulpes |
now i really want to know |
| 17:53 |
asciilifeform |
well, no ~clean~ diff |
| 17:53 |
asciilifeform |
there's a bunch of if-then crapolade |
| 17:53 |
asciilifeform |
open yer 3ring and weep. |
| 17:53 |
ben_vulpes |
quote me a chapter and verse? |
| 17:54 |
ben_vulpes |
jurov: would you be so kind as to update the lxr with makefiles.vpatch ? |
| |
↖ |
| 17:55 |
jurov |
yep |
| 17:55 |
ben_vulpes |
ty |
| 17:55 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=vInventoryToSend |
| 17:56 |
asciilifeform |
in particular, this bit of nonsense: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2339 |
| 17:56 |
asciilifeform |
^ is probably what mircea_popescu was thinking of ^ |
| 17:57 |
pete_dushenski |
mircea_popescu: i don't disagree from a philosophical standpoint but nor can i tolerate having dead fucking trb nodes. that i should have to reboot a machine ~daily~ is the death of bitcoin. yukoners never had it so bad. |
| 17:58 |
ben_vulpes |
pete_dushenski: you have to reboot the whole machine? |
| 17:58 |
asciilifeform |
pete_dushenski: be so kind as to post plox some logs from your node during and immediately prior to and after the blackhole |
| 17:58 |
phf |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592829 << you remember how they used to have those "stripping all the extras" hacks for windows. like a tool that would unpack windows xp installer, remove whatever shit author knew how to remove, and then repack it, so you get windows with random gunk. you know of anything like that for mac? i wonder if i can roll 10.9 without any of the /Applications/ etc. |
| 17:58 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-29 22:50 ben_vulpes: run moar macos or how does it go |
| 17:59 |
pete_dushenski |
ben_vulpes: rpc unresponsive so... ya. |
| 17:59 |
pete_dushenski |
asciilifeform: kk |
| 17:59 |
mircea_popescu |
jesus fuck what a request |
| 17:59 |
ben_vulpes |
pete_dushenski: kill -9 may help |
| 17:59 |
ben_vulpes |
mildly less painful than restarting whole machine |
| 18:00 |
asciilifeform |
pete_dushenski: from your telling, it seems that there was no 'after'. so let's have the 'before' and 'during' |
| 18:00 |
ben_vulpes |
phf: i only used windows as a wee one in school labs and a mildly less wee one in cad labs, so no idea re administration haxery |
| 18:00 |
asciilifeform |
and can you get a core dump out of the thing pete_dushenski |
| 18:01 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: the thing phf refers to , is in use still, whenever i make (yes) xp box! < 400MB! (lighter weight than, e.g., africa-linux) |
| 18:01 |
mircea_popescu |
davout the deep problem there, with kraken as well as with any other of these websites, which is to say scams, is that YOU DO NOT get to pocket anything. in your case this was a loss, but in the case of bitfinex running away with millions in "profits" its inept "users" were supposed to have accrued but never did, the mechanism was more clearly in view |
| 18:02 |
mircea_popescu |
iirc this even made it to qntra, because the usg.dept of legal pretense's failure to act was exactly just as much damning of the whitehouse website based in maryland as of the bitfinex website based in nowhere. |
| 18:02 |
ben_vulpes |
phf: i have no idea how to fix macos |
| 18:03 |
phf |
ok |
| 18:04 |
pete_dushenski |
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3biVT/?raw=true << last however many lines from debug.log. it just keeps going on like this. gimme a sec on core dump. |
| 18:06 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-does-she-know-what/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Does she know what |
| 18:06 |
ben_vulpes |
phf: moreover i'm too ferklempt over how the thing's changed since 10.2 to want much to do with it anymore |
| 18:07 |
asciilifeform |
pete_dushenski: this'd be the genuine article |
| 18:07 |
asciilifeform |
spray of crapolade from $somebody, designed to bog down your node and have it lose all peers |
| 18:08 |
asciilifeform |
also i see some 'connect() failed after select(): Connection refused' which iirc is bleeding edge prb kicking trb out |
| |
↖ |
| 18:08 |
ben_vulpes |
asciilifeform: any idea how prb identifies a trb node? |
| 18:14 |
jurov |
ben_vulpes: prb 0.11 and newer insist on using improved protocol |
| 18:14 |
mircea_popescu |
sooner rather than later we have to attend to these sillynesses. |
| 18:15 |
jurov |
forgot which bip was that |
| 18:15 |
ben_vulpes |
hm |
| 18:15 |
ben_vulpes |
dipshits |
| 18:15 |
jurov |
if they see peer does not support it, drop the connection |
| 18:15 |
mircea_popescu |
pete_dushenski looks like stock blackholing. ipban the offenders, see what happens. |
| 18:16 |
asciilifeform |
one thing that palpably helps is the aws banhammer. |
| 18:16 |
mircea_popescu |
yes. |
| 18:16 |
mircea_popescu |
anyway - properly indexing txn so that we deliver the full data set ; properly handling the blackhole thing will actually ruin prb because nobody's fuycking migrating to their new protocol. |
| 18:17 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: blackhole, in my current understanding, is at least 4 distinct things |
| 18:17 |
pete_dushenski |
mircea_popescu: have done some, will try more banning. |
| 18:17 |
asciilifeform |
(that lead to same state - wedged node) |
| 18:17 |
mircea_popescu |
this'd make some fine subject of a priority work order, the only problem is that it's so intricate and we aren't fans of doing the work n times. but once trb sits down on a sql-fs it would all fall in place. |
| 18:17 |
asciilifeform |
and it is not in fact held up by the fs thing. |
| 18:17 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform the idea, as idiscussed a few days ago, is to separate things and queue. |
| 18:18 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: ultimately for so long as peers are unauthenticated and speak unauthenticated plaintext , there will be type4 blackhole. |
| 18:18 |
mircea_popescu |
never mind that. |
| 18:18 |
asciilifeform |
(the one unattributable to overload of any type) |
| 18:19 |
asciilifeform |
and for so long as block verification is single-processor, there will remain type1 |
| 18:19 |
ben_vulpes |
while you're at it, type2 and type3 are? |
| 18:20 |
asciilifeform |
type2 ( pete_dushenski's ) is the garden variety shitflood. which is sometimes solved by ip ban, but only in the case of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant', i.e. idiot prb nodes wildly spamming crapolade, and not in the 'bullet with your name on it' case, where somebody actually has a sybil constellation drowning your trb node in liquishit, with no SINGLE ip misbehaving in any way |
| |
↖ |
| 18:22 |
asciilifeform |
type3 (this taxonomy is strictly from asciilifeform's notes, and is no canonical animal of any kind) is the 'thinking man's shitflood', where requested inventory is not a DOS by virtue of ~quantity~, but ~quality~ (flood of questionable but not immediately/cheaply rejectable material) |
| 18:23 |
asciilifeform |
4 is where 1,2,3 can be ruled out with some confidence. could be mircea_popescu's 'magic packet', or just about anything, i have ~0 useful data. |
| 18:24 |
ben_vulpes |
ty asciilifeform |
| 18:24 |
asciilifeform |
i suppose for completeness one ought to include a '5' -- foolish folx who think that 4GB / non-ECC ddr4 / etc. is a trb node |
| 18:25 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu has been running public nodez longer than i , and iirc has pretty good instrumentation, he might have something to add to this thread . |
| 18:32 |
ben_vulpes |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591573 << the diff line is distinct from the --- / +++ lines, does one ever see a patch file where the files compared aren't prefixed with a/ or b/ ? |
| |
↖ |
| 18:32 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-28 02:39 phf: http://btcbase.org/patches/hashes_and_errors#L118 you don't really want to do this. you're subseq'ing there to strip the a/ b/ but that's not at all a guarantee! i have a vpatch with `diff -ib -ruN /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/abbrev.lisp src/abbrev.lisp` in it for example. at the very least you want to abstract it away into its own function. that would correctly operate on a hashed-path datastructure. |
| 18:37 |
pete_dushenski |
asciilifeform: thoughts on resolution to directed type2 floods ? the ips drowing me atm are from all over the map - china, spain, verizon, mci - no aws to speak of. |
| 18:37 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: the 'a' and 'b' are historic artifacts from my torture room. but notice, gnudiff ignores the name. |
| 18:38 |
asciilifeform |
pete_dushenski: the only long-term answer is full wotnetization of the nodes. |
| 18:38 |
asciilifeform |
but it isn't happening tonight. |
| 18:38 |
* |
pete_dushenski sighs deeply |
| 18:39 |
asciilifeform |
and it isn't clear what will happen in re miners, for instance, when it does. |
| 18:42 |
ben_vulpes |
asciilifeform: ah |
| 18:42 |
asciilifeform |
one theoretical solution to every type of blackhole other than the (theoretical) 'nsa sprays shit directly into the pipe on the backbone' is to make trb actually multiprocess |
| 18:43 |
asciilifeform |
but it is also not clear to me whether this can be done and the result still referred to as 'trb'. |
| 18:43 |
asciilifeform |
it WILL have variant semantics. |
| 18:43 |
asciilifeform |
and unquantifiably so. |
| 18:43 |
ben_vulpes |
what means "semantics" wrt operation of this proggy? |
| 18:46 |
phf |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592904 << i just pasted diff so that i didn't have to do two lines :} corresponding +++ --- lines are |
| |
↖ |
| 18:46 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-29 23:32 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1591573 << the diff line is distinct from the --- / +++ lines, does one ever see a patch file where the files compared aren't prefixed with a/ or b/ ? |
| 18:46 |
phf |
--- /Users/pf/cmucl20d-build/src/hemlock/XKeysymDB fd8e6454cb410b82d1aeabc2b91c1 |
| 18:46 |
phf |
19f491ecb5008a5194a125b20440e1a1f3d10824c89e71651453a781ae7fe34c26860a241e1db8c8 |
| 18:46 |
phf |
d7a372aec5b46c0d842 |
| 18:46 |
phf |
+++ src/XKeysymDB false |
| 18:46 |
ben_vulpes |
yup, i see now |
| 18:49 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: same as in any other proggy |
| 18:50 |
phf |
fwiw patch format is super promisetronic. it's something along the lines of "command that was used to produce the hunks\nhunks..." |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: semantics is , more or less, what the proggy ~is~ |
| 18:50 |
asciilifeform |
different semantics - different proggy. with different behaviour . different outputs for same inputs. etc |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
phf: it is a terrible format and is not to remain. |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
as soon as there is a viable replacement. |
| 18:51 |
phf |
so if you diff is called "gdiff" or whatever (because you're on bsd) it's entirely legal for it to say gdiff -ruN a b |
| 18:51 |
phf |
in the "command that was used..." line |
| 18:51 |
asciilifeform |
(which, if it is left up to me, will look like teco macros. so if anyone does not like this shape, had better come up with another.) |
| 18:51 |
ben_vulpes |
asciilifeform: pedantically, each patch then produces semantically new program? |
| 18:52 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: not each (nixing the win32 #ifdefs did not, for so long as nobody is dumb enough to try to build for win32) |
| 18:52 |
asciilifeform |
but some -- did. the orphanage removals certainly did. |
| 18:52 |
asciilifeform |
ditto 'malleus'. |
| 18:53 |
asciilifeform |
the important thing to observe , in each case, is whether it changed semantics in a way that can be ~understood~ |
| 18:54 |
asciilifeform |
in the case of the orphanages, they had 0 constructive purpose. they were like the 'death glands' on that one species of octopus. snip'em and you get octopus that lives for +2 yrs and no other effect. |
| 18:54 |
phf |
asciilifeform: you know you could've gone with diff -e instead, in which case almost exactly "like teco macros" |
| 18:54 |
asciilifeform |
phf: does it needleman-wunsch ? |
| 18:55 |
asciilifeform |
stock gnudiff is brain-meltingly dumb re minimality of diffage. |
| 18:57 |
phf |
well, in the simplest case (i.e. if you're using gnudiff) you're still just going to get the diff's take on "delete this line, add this line", but the ~format~ would be an ed script out of the box, so can have pretty complex transforms |
| 18:57 |
asciilifeform |
phf: diff -e has own serious problems (it 'enmagics' the '.' character, for instance.) |
| 18:57 |
asciilifeform |
NO MOTHERFUCKING INBAND MAGICS |
| 18:57 |
asciilifeform |
ffs. |
| 18:58 |
asciilifeform |
http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3NXcp/?raw=true << what FUCKGOATS release would have looked like, in that mode. |
| 18:59 |
asciilifeform |
(i did not have any lines beginning with '.', so i have nfi what the escape would have looked like. but there WOULD be one.) |
| 19:00 |
phf |
there's no "escape" as such. instead it generates an adhoc escape (say replace dot with ZZ or whatever) and then patches that one line using s///. |
| 19:00 |
asciilifeform |
phf: 'ed-style' diff outputs are the Right Thing, but done the ~proper~ way, with NO INBAND MAGIC, and not the monkey way. |
| 19:01 |
asciilifeform |
ick. |
| 19:01 |
phf |
well, that's not inband magic! still "ick" |
| 19:01 |
asciilifeform |
it's magic |
| 19:01 |
asciilifeform |
if there's a forbidden char or string --- that is called magic. |
| 19:01 |
asciilifeform |
the alternative, the correct one, is 'next N bytes are payload'. |
| 19:01 |
asciilifeform |
and THEY CAN BE ANY OCTET |
| 19:02 |
asciilifeform |
the '.' operator in 'diff -e' is the magic. |
| 19:03 |
phf |
it's \n.\n |
| 19:03 |
asciilifeform |
one can debate whether the persians are right to cut hands off thieves. but the hands of folx who write programs like this, i cannot see any reason why they should stay attached. |
| 19:03 |
asciilifeform |
phf: USES nonprintables in the magic ?! even deeper retardation. |
| 19:04 |
* |
asciilifeform 'can't even', takes break, off to play with 10kg joystick, and then with pet |
| 19:04 |
phf |
newline is not a non-printable |
| |
↖ |
| 19:06 |
phf |
ffs, i resent being placed in a position of defending something that i'm not responsible nor care for. diff -e would've been closer to "teco macros", but it's the "sane teco macros" we're talking about here, etc. etc. etc. |
| 19:06 |
mircea_popescu |
in other news, obama's been doing more reality tv work than the entire kardashian extended family these past few days. |
| 19:07 |
mircea_popescu |
it's the irony of all time that while the progre press was derping about how trump will lose the election and try to turn it around into a television show, the reality turned out to be he won the election AND OBAMA is trying to turn his losership into a tv personality |
| 19:08 |
ben_vulpes |
eh, obab's just wants to grab some pussy |
| 19:08 |
ben_vulpes |
s/'s// |
| 19:08 |
mircea_popescu |
like the golfer guy what's his name |
| 19:08 |
ben_vulpes |
woods? |
| 19:09 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform no the classification proposed is quite serviceable. |
| 19:10 |
mircea_popescu |
aha yeah woods |
| 19:10 |
mircea_popescu |
!!key mlcmolina |
| 19:10 |
deedbot |
http://wot.deedbot.org/8450B3D7AD8AE9D9FB2A0FCBCB5A7CD47D66FE7B.asc |
| 19:10 |
mircea_popescu |
uh why do i get a 404 |
| 19:11 |
mircea_popescu |
trinque ^ ? |
| 19:11 |
ben_vulpes |
trinque ^^ |
| 19:11 |
ben_vulpes |
C-k, not C-j, kid... |
| 19:12 |
mircea_popescu |
wut ? |
| 19:13 |
mircea_popescu |
phf i guess we will sooner or later have to actually formulate the patch format yeah. |
| 19:14 |
mircea_popescu |
re octopus - no other effect individually ; but living long is bad for the species, as hillary well exemplifies. |
| 19:19 |
mircea_popescu |
http://akphoto2.ask.fm/7a8/29f1b/e255/41d8/a375/1905a754e8d6/original/559106.jpg << here's something for phf. cheer up! |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 19:37 |
asciilifeform |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1592962 << news to me |
| 19:37 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-30 00:04 phf: newline is not a non-printable |
| 19:44 |
trinque |
mircea_popescu: it'll be up there in a sec, let ya know |
| 19:44 |
mircea_popescu |
kk |
| 19:46 |
trinque |
gotta finish writing the thing that triggers granular (per-nick) updates, leaning on a full rebuild for now. |
| 19:47 |
trinque |
ben_vulpes and I had an interesting conversation yesterday about how to handle static sites generated from a db. idea we ended up with was that we'd have triggers which emit a pg_notify signal when the "dirty bit" has flipped for any page. |
| 19:48 |
trinque |
db operator has to go through and manually apply these triggers. for example, updates on either a "to" or "from" rating will require a rebuild of the nick pages in both directions. |
| 19:48 |
ben_vulpes |
i am very much a fan of this design |
| 19:49 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: why would you generate the site from a db? more than once, i mean |
| 19:49 |
ben_vulpes |
please to never have code near an httptron |
| 19:49 |
asciilifeform |
why have 2 representations of same thing on disk ? |
| 19:49 |
trinque |
there's a listening process consuming these pg_notify events, of the form (gen-nick-page "trinque") which debounces them according to some sane interval, i.e. if a few updates hit the same user in a short span, it will result in one single rebuild |
| 19:49 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: because people update their ratings |
| 19:49 |
asciilifeform |
so update the html? |
| 19:49 |
trinque |
ben_vulpes: and yes, app code needn't be anywhere near www |
| 19:49 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: that is precisely what I just said |
| 19:50 |
ben_vulpes |
asciilifeform: exactly :D |
| 19:50 |
asciilifeform |
yes but why have the sql db then |
| 19:50 |
trinque |
wtf |
| 19:50 |
asciilifeform |
at all |
| 19:50 |
asciilifeform |
anywhere |
| 19:50 |
trinque |
this model has nothing to do with sql |
| 19:50 |
trinque |
and everything to do with shitty html flowing from properly structured data |
| 19:51 |
asciilifeform |
the mention of pg_notify |
| 19:51 |
ben_vulpes |
trinque: just sed and awk the html you have in place to update ratings |
| 19:51 |
trinque |
oh ok |
| 19:51 |
asciilifeform |
hence i ask 'why have 2' |
| 19:51 |
trinque |
I am not using html as a data storage format what the hell |
| 19:51 |
trinque |
lol |
| 19:51 |
ben_vulpes |
no it's fine |
| 19:51 |
ben_vulpes |
deduplication |
| 19:51 |
ben_vulpes |
parsing html isn't even hard |
| 19:52 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: the question answered here is "why regenerate the same idiot HTML every www request?" |
| 19:52 |
trinque |
and the answer is don't |
| 19:53 |
asciilifeform |
i've seriously considered reimplementing phuctor in this shape. as it is, it loses more from the slow writes idiotically queuing up, and the wedged reads that result, than it wins from fast structured queries. |
| 19:54 |
ben_vulpes |
"this shape" being selective html regeneration? or mutation in place? |
| 19:54 |
trinque |
wot.deedbot.org will likely result in two genesis patches down the line. one for the tool, other for the particular site |
| 19:54 |
trinque |
if asciilifeform should ever want it |
| 19:54 |
asciilifeform |
~displaying a www page~ oughta be an O(1) op, really |
| 19:54 |
asciilifeform |
in ~all~ cases. |
| 19:54 |
ben_vulpes |
mhm. |
| 19:56 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: mircea_popescu will probably barf if the 2 genesisen get displayed on same screen. it isn't an eggog in vtronics, but is in his head. |
| 19:57 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: 'this shape' being 'html as-seen-by-reader as the only storage format' |
| 19:58 |
asciilifeform |
i've developed a loathing, inexpressible in words, for postgres and all things like it |
| 19:59 |
trinque |
I am not moving from it until I have another database in hand |
| 19:59 |
asciilifeform |
why the FUCK should a READ block because ~wholly unrelated datum is being written~ |
| 19:59 |
asciilifeform |
and why the FUCK is 10,000 writes/sec 'too much' |
| 19:59 |
asciilifeform |
is it 1971? am i on a drum disk? |
| 20:00 |
trinque |
yeah yeah. /dev/null is even faster |
| 20:00 |
trinque |
but the right answer is as much or as little structure enforcement as you like. |
| 20:00 |
asciilifeform |
my fs can eat GB/s r/w without breaking a sweat |
| 20:00 |
trinque |
this is not the direction from which to come at this subject |
| 20:01 |
trinque |
conflated in "database" is both a user interface and a programming environment |
| 20:01 |
asciilifeform |
elaborate? |
| 20:02 |
trinque |
as the shell is a user interface, in the first case |
| 20:03 |
trinque |
recall I conceded in the bitcoinfs thread that what I consider to be "database" is actually many orthogonal tools related to data manipulation, atomicity of operations, adherence to type constraints ~if desired~ |
| 20:04 |
trinque |
^ programming environment |
| 20:04 |
asciilifeform |
all of the orthogonal tools must be mercilessly cut apart, yes. |
| 20:05 |
asciilifeform |
but so must orthogonal ~operations~. under nk circumstances is blocking on UNRELATED op, tolerablr |
| 20:05 |
asciilifeform |
tolerable |
| 20:06 |
asciilifeform |
it is monumentally retarded, as a mere possibility in a system |
| 20:06 |
trinque |
that sounds like a bug, really, but the kind of bug the complexity of the thing makes hard to remove |
| 20:06 |
asciilifeform |
imagine your cock didn't work if 10,000 others in town were in use. |
| 20:10 |
mircea_popescu |
trinque i think that's how pretty much everyone ends up doing things. |
| 20:10 |
trinque |
mircea_popescu: ah you know what, excluding nicks with no ratings breaks this, because writing the keyfile happens inside that logic. |
| 20:11 |
trinque |
I'll instead write the page and exclude from the index |
| 20:11 |
trinque |
noobs can aspire to be named there |
| 20:11 |
asciilifeform |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570951 << see also |
| 20:11 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-11-19 18:52 asciilifeform: Framedragger: db being hammered 24/7 with 'do we have this hash' 'do we have this fp' 'add this and this' 1000/sec is the bottle. |
| 20:11 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform there would be two trees not "two genesises" in his idea, he's making a tree for the site and a tree for the tooling. |
| 20:12 |
trinque |
aha |
| 20:12 |
asciilifeform |
aite |
| 20:12 |
mircea_popescu |
and gtfo with the inept simile, the correct comparison is "imagine if your cock didn't work if there was already one in the target woman". which i bet yours doesn't, so really. |
| 20:12 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: we poor bastards who made money living inside SQL find ways to make it work. |
| 20:12 |
trinque |
but if not sooner, I have orthogonal organs of database given independent life as a retirement project |
| 20:13 |
mircea_popescu |
trinque ok so can i get this guy's key he's kinda weaiting for an acct. |
| 20:13 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: my understanding is that these ways typically involve clusters of machines, duplicate db, and very elaborate/failure-prone synchronizers |
| 20:14 |
trinque |
mircea_popescu: yep works now |
| 20:14 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: no, it is specifically 'doesn't work because ~nearly there is a cock-shaped shadow~ |
| 20:14 |
trinque |
!!key mlcmolina |
| 20:14 |
deedbot |
http://wot.deedbot.org/8450B3D7AD8AE9D9FB2A0FCBCB5A7CD47D66FE7B.asc |
| 20:14 |
asciilifeform |
*nearby |
| 20:14 |
mircea_popescu |
ty |
| 20:15 |
trinque |
and I'm tweaking the site generator |
| 20:15 |
mircea_popescu |
aaa+++ would use again. |
| 20:16 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: aside "write a data manipulation environment that provides what trinque demands" I do not see a path here. |
| 20:17 |
asciilifeform |
how much of 'what trinque wants here' is unobtainable by simply abusing the fs ? |
| 20:19 |
trinque |
when I build things to ask the fs how many customers in new york placed orders on the weekend it starts to look quite like a relational db |
| 20:20 |
asciilifeform |
yeah but one that doesn't motherfucking grind to a halt when read 1000/sec omfg |
| |
↖ |
| 20:20 |
trinque |
could be. I'd like to see the design for such a thing. |
| 20:20 |
mircea_popescu |
we still didn't see the profiling for the symlink thing\ |
| 20:20 |
mircea_popescu |
i'd expect it'd be informative. |
| 20:21 |
asciilifeform |
picture reiserfs , but without the idiot fortranistic hard limits on nodes, lengths, etc |
| 20:21 |
mircea_popescu |
if it starts with picture it can't be a part of this discussion. |
| 20:22 |
asciilifeform |
then take standard reiser. but in that case you grunt under entirely arbitrary procrusting . |
| |
~ 32 minutes ~ |
| 20:55 |
phf |
picture a spherical horse in vacuum (tm) (c) |
| 21:01 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-never-mind-note-that-we/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Never mind. Note that we |
| 21:02 |
phf |
asciilifeform: i will have to concede, (graphic-char-p #\newline) NIL |
| 21:03 |
asciilifeform |
if drum printer dun go 'bang' when it gets the octet - it ain't 'printable.' |
| 21:03 |
asciilifeform |
even if it ~does~ go whrrrrr. |
| 21:03 |
phf |
well, (graphic-char-p #\space) T |
| 21:04 |
asciilifeform |
ullage!1111 |
| 21:11 |
mircea_popescu |
lmao |
| 21:12 |
mircea_popescu |
phf for my own curiosity, does anything in the rest of your life piss you off as much in aggregate as one session with these assholes ? |
| 21:23 |
phf |
hehe, as much? no. but that's only because if there's one lesson i learned from naggum, all this rage is not healthy. |
| 21:31 |
mircea_popescu |
tru. |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
| 21:49 |
phf |
also i learned long time ago that americans* aren't taught how to argue properly, so when they do they have a really hard time keeping the thread, keeping more than one point, developing an argument, bringing it back to original point, etc. consensus intelligentsia are all very civil, so when you do get them railed up, they just flail, sort of discourages from even trying |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
| 22:05 |
mircea_popescu |
hm. |
| 22:08 |
deedbot |
http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/18B7C700E3D732F13B498BE6777E8C50040F0BE90CC086A78993AEB30CCB803B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.178.64.157 (ssh-rsa key from 41.178.64.157 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown EG) |
| 22:08 |
deedbot |
http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/05654F6204A0FB615199D4DB4E442FFFCA74621F46A18B5E74CB978504E480F8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.178.64.148 (ssh-rsa key from 41.178.64.148 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown EG) |
| 22:08 |
deedbot |
http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/763930076E165275AF7659105A2A31F61AE3FBF931A7E188B2DC146EFFC7CF49 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.178.64.147 (ssh-rsa key from 41.178.64.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown EG) |
| 22:08 |
deedbot |
http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E840C2FC34B3F9B8B95E6D12E18267E717ACBE1494C34DFA9055710347573A7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 3209...6799 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '116.105.59.120 (ssh-rsa key from 116.105.59.120 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown VN 64) |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
| 22:24 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-it-is-raining/ << Trilema - Disgrace - It is raining. |
| 22:26 |
trinque |
lol, but then russians take the thread wherever they like without telling anyone. |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
| 22:45 |
trinque |
phf: when I brought to you "whence the disjunction between the practical and theoretical sides of subj" your output was "OP == faggot" |
| 22:45 |
trinque |
lets not speak of flailing |
| |
~ 37 minutes ~ |
| 23:22 |
deedbot |
http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-you-say-you-have-not/ << Trilema - Disgrace - You say you have not |
| |
~ 23 minutes ~ |
| 23:46 |
ben_vulpes |
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592918 << ftr i hate the solution for this that i have on disk |
| 23:46 |
a111 |
Logged on 2016-12-29 23:46 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592904 << i just pasted diff so that i didn't have to do two lines :} corresponding +++ --- lines are |
| 23:47 |
ben_vulpes |
a) capture output of `patch' to determine which files were patched |
| 23:48 |
ben_vulpes |
b) when working through the list of each patch's children, search through the list of patched files until the patched filepath is a subsequence of the filename as recorded in the vpatch |
| 23:48 |
ben_vulpes |
c) hash that file and compare to the vpatch contents |
| 23:49 |
ben_vulpes |
the only other thing that i can think to do here is to grab the set of parents and children, match them up, and then get the lowest common denominator (if you will) file path for each patched file directly from the vpatch |
| 23:50 |
ben_vulpes |
standby, let me test a third approach |
| 23:52 |
ben_vulpes |
the third approach is to apply each patch to an empty directory and determine what files would have been patched, had it applied cleanly. |
| 23:53 |
ben_vulpes |
but i hate 3 for obvious reasons |
| 23:53 |
ben_vulpes |
http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FnxeR/?raw=true |