Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-12-10 | 2016-12-12 → ↓
00:00 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/lower-korea-makes-our-democracy-weird-again/ << Qntra - Lower Korea Makes "Our Democracy" Weird Again
~ 43 minutes ~
00:43 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: impeached ??
00:44 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: ty fxd
00:48 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: there were 2
00:48 asciilifeform 'president was impeached'
00:49 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: scan results: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/P5jFW/
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00:50 ben_vulpes do the various weird telnet responses imply an encoding nightmare i have to figure out and fix on my machine?
00:51 asciilifeform nfi
00:51 asciilifeform never seen any such thing prior.
00:51 asciilifeform btw those various 'wtf is that' shitftp servers ? many are exploitable.
00:52 asciilifeform if only we had some use for these...
00:52 asciilifeform 0 s:/C=US/ST=Ohio/L=Westerville/O=Leader Technologies Inc/CN=www.leaderphone.com << lel
00:53 asciilifeform ftp: 220 NotARealServer 0.0.0.1 - Its just here becuase we watch it like a hawk << also lul
00:54 asciilifeform probably there is more, lulzier, but i'll bbl.
00:54 ben_vulpes how'd you pull that gem out so quickly?
01:03 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: ty fxd
01:11 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: with hands!
01:12 asciilifeform https://www.ebay.com/itm/252472784934 << poor man's mig.
01:23 davout master delusionist's mig
01:29 asciilifeform true master needs no junkyard artifact
01:29 asciilifeform can mig in own mind.
~ 2 hours 56 minutes ~
04:25 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-442823.txt
~ 3 hours 36 minutes ~
08:01 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ACDB32FB4F95A910FB09001CAB31B67086FDE81B2ED884CD0D60A41EE67CB49A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1599...6999 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.222.106.8 (ssh-rsa key from 201.222.106.8 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (leased-line-ptoq-adsl-201.222.106.8.cotas.com.bo. BO B)
~ 17 minutes ~
08:19 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2C24B5DEB41DB3A5A7BF180833B9FA2DF23C78F887B4CB52F57F662DD5632F8D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1715...0197 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.226.8.108 (ssh-rsa key from 213.226.8.108 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (brico-rus1.mtel.net. BG)
08:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the part where the hawk watcher misspelled because is!
~ 1 hours 27 minutes ~
09:47 mircea_popescu http://www.venturejapan.com/fast-track-sales-japan-1.htm << dat cwazy shit. 100% dedicated to esablish "we IS!", maybe at some point gets around to "we do"
09:47 adlai congratulations on sellout, mircea_popescu & asciilifeform ! although requiring wholesale minimum of half the stock seems kinda 'asking for it'
09:48 mircea_popescu the who what ?
09:48 shinohai !~bash 2
09:48 jhvh1 Last 2 lines bashed and pending publication
09:48 adlai the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575434
09:48 a111 Logged on 2016-12-01 05:55 mircea_popescu: aaaand... we're sold out on the 1st batch o.O
09:49 mircea_popescu looky : it's rare that your conclusions are baffling because i'm not aware what ~i~ said. it's generally the case that i'm not aware what nutty assumptions you baked into it. so, what ?
09:50 adlai 'congratulations'
09:50 mircea_popescu cheers!
~ 30 minutes ~
10:21 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59tKpTFlaME << pretty sure that's illegal by now
10:21 mircea_popescu ALONG WITH EVERYTHING ELSE!
10:21 asciilifeform 'we'll murder'em all, amidst laughter and merriment! except for a few we'll take home to EXPERIMENT!!111'
10:27 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F24AA9CF11A01F8E3F25C060D49840FB4E0D7D78FF146A3024B3BFEE92EC85BB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1540...7149 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.41.78.163 (ssh-rsa key from 213.41.78.163 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (radius-front2.fr.colt.net. GB)
10:27 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2C24B5DEB41DB3A5A7BF180833B9FA2DF23C78F887B4CB52F57F662DD5632F8D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1536...4809 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.226.8.108 (ssh-rsa key from 213.226.8.108 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (brico-rus1.mtel.net. BG)
10:31 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3aCuKBWE3A << in other news, nick cave ain't even terrible.
~ 29 minutes ~
11:00 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/this-nick-cave-thing-isnt-even-horrible/ << Trilema - This Nick Cave thing isn't even horrible.
~ 17 minutes ~
11:18 mircea_popescu in other news, today i learned a chinese! it goes like so : 和我一起，那是你的婊子掴你进监狱，并与所有的民族疯人院
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~ 19 minutes ~
11:37 shinohai !~translate en to zh-CN Fuckgoats
11:37 jhvh1 shinohai: Fuckgoats
11:37 mircea_popescu !~translate en to zh-CN "FUCK GOATS"
11:37 mircea_popescu !~translate en to zh-CN "FUCK GOATS"
11:37 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: FUCK山羊
11:37 shinohai well
11:37 mircea_popescu ahaha gimme a break
11:38 mircea_popescu !~translate en to zh-CN "VIGOROUS COPULATION GOATS"
11:38 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 高原复制山羊
11:38 mircea_popescu ^
11:38 shinohai top kek
11:38 shinohai !~translate en to zh-CN "rape goats"
11:38 jhvh1 shinohai: 强奸山羊
11:38 shinohai :D
11:38 mircea_popescu rape is not the answer!
11:39 mircea_popescu !~translate en to zh-CN "plateau copy goat"
11:39 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 高原复制山羊
11:40 mircea_popescu !~javascript.eval("高原复制山羊"==="高原复制山羊")
11:40 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Error: "javascript.eval("高原复制山羊"==="高原复制山羊")" is not a valid command.
11:40 mircea_popescu oic.
11:40 shinohai eval in js is bad mkay
11:41 mircea_popescu !~exec(c.eval("高原复制山羊"==="高原复制山羊"))
11:41 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Error: "exec(c.eval("高原复制山羊"==="高原复制山羊"))" is not a valid command.
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~
12:51 adlai ;;later tell mod6 may I please be granted admission to your trb dev channel(s)?
12:52 adlai !~later tell mod6 may I please be granted admission to your trb dev channel(s)?
12:52 jhvh1 adlai: The operation succeeded.
12:54 adlai asciilifeform: any forecast of when batch two will assemble & ship?
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12:54 asciilifeform adlai: if all as planned, end of week
12:55 thestringpuller asciilifeform: well the cyrpto-pocalypse is happening. reading several arguments against the "paper-wallet" and literally saw "Javascript has strong cryptographic functions. Generate keys in your web browser!"
12:55 asciilifeform lolwut
12:56 thestringpuller Luke-jr was trying to warn people similarly to you as to "paper wallet" crap-olade. And "the self proclaimed experts" stated, " He doesn't believe that any security sensitive activity should happen in a web browser, disregarding the fact that today's JavaScript actually has excellent cryptographic bonafides -- like a random number generator that's generally stronger than whatever the host operating system can offer."
12:58 asciilifeform what part of this crapola is new or interesting, thestringpuller ?
12:58 adlai this sounds like a criticism of JS-generated keys, rather than a criticism of "private key never existed on an internet-connected computer, and no backup is saved other than a piece of paper"
12:59 thestringpuller While asciilifeform is diligently building fuckgoats the lamestream media will inevitably "white wash javascript" crypto. Above is evidnce of it happening in the making. Maybe not suprising to you. But surprising to me to see it more rampantly.
13:00 asciilifeform thestringpuller: keybase etc were going strong year+ ago, snore.
13:02 thestringpuller asciilifeform: I don't think keybase allows you to generate keys anymore...you have to supply them...
13:03 thestringpuller or atleast I have yet to encounter a keybase user in the wild who has done so...
13:03 shinohai nah they still ask you to "paste copy of privkey in browser to enact enhanced features*
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13:05 Framedragger (but for clarity, keybase works perfectly well without being supplied with privkey, no?) ("i'm just sayin'" - not defending keybase.)
13:06 davout shinohai: you're such a racist and elitist pig. cryptography should be easy and downloadable from the appstore
13:08 thestringpuller look i thought jgarzik's tweet about gpg dying was just an outlier of PRB nonsense but it's a plague now I've witnessed for myself, that is all
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13:11 Framedragger indeed, attack is stronger than initially pictured. "sane" "developers" actually promote js crypto, etc.; i guess that just means that one has to be even more vigilant (and proactively declare those to be insane).. :)
13:11 asciilifeform Framedragger: who, in particular ?
13:11 asciilifeform let's hear names.
13:12 Framedragger well.. that's one of the problems. i don't really keep names in my mind, it's not worth the space. sorry if i implied that i'd be able to point at anything interesting
13:12 shinohai (keybase allows signing of zcash scam addys)
13:12 Framedragger fwiw i still like moxie, but it's sad that he's doing the "i don't use gpg anymore" thing, too
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13:13 Framedragger shinohai: why should it selectively disallow to sign whatever you wanted?
13:14 shinohai well sure u dont have to use it
13:14 Framedragger i suppose so, but his tone was more like "gpg UI is shit => gpg is shit => eh fuck gpg, i'll just use signal/otr etc [and i encourage others to do the same]"
13:15 Framedragger which is, you know, how you end up in a pool, surrounded by sharks and tigers :p / :(
13:16 Framedragger (but that's different from a developer endorsing js crypto, of course)
13:30 phf goes back to our conversation about "why you no respect ptacek". since their opinions are not hinged on any deliberately lived experience, they change them according to fashions. if you happen to be fashion aligned you'll think that they are geniuses, but as soon as you start doing your own thing, you realize just how superficial they are
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13:31 asciilifeform ^
13:32 adlai out of curiosity, why are orders encrypted to mircea_popescu , when i'd assume (silly me, all these assumptions!) that asciilifeform is the one actually doing the assembly + shipping?
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13:33 asciilifeform no particularly good reason.
13:34 asciilifeform but on other hand, i ~like~ not having to know where crate is doing until the very hour.
13:34 asciilifeform *going
13:34 adlai ok so i'll leave out the --encrypt-to stan
13:35 asciilifeform get into the habit of encrypting to the fella to whom you were asked to encrypt.
13:35 asciilifeform and not also to x,y,and z.
13:35 * adlai has this nasty habit of doing things for no particularly good reason. working on culling it.
13:35 asciilifeform it is a very bad habit and has killed quite a few folx
13:36 asciilifeform 'wut dus this button do'
13:38 adlai ugh, sadly internet collections of quotes from "The Phantom Tollbooth" lack the one about valid reasons... left as exercise to reader
13:39 asciilifeform phf, trinque, et al : is it yet possible to throw a vpatch into deedbot ?
13:40 asciilifeform i would like to deed FUCKGOATS
13:40 asciilifeform WITHOUT THE IDIOT MUTILATION of clearsign
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13:40 asciilifeform omfgh is this still unsolved problem.
13:40 * adlai wonders whether the delay of signing the order info is worth the gain in trust
13:41 adlai sufficiently resourceful prankster might enrich S.NSA at customers' expence by giving them different amounts
13:41 asciilifeform adlai: how about whether delay in tying your shoes is worth the gain in not tripping over own laces ?
13:41 asciilifeform adlai: what did your mother say to you when you were small and asked this ?
13:41 asciilifeform because i am now becoming quite certain that you did ask
13:42 phf asciilifeform: i think the solution that we arrived at is that you just paste the two pastebot urls clear and sig and i pick them up. so if you want to deedbot them, just do that, and you can assume that it'll end up in btcbase
13:42 asciilifeform aite.
13:42 asciilifeform i'd like to deedbot it though.
13:42 asciilifeform y'know, with block time & all.
13:43 adlai asciilifeform: i realize there is not an incentive to perform such mischief. this is just me being talkative.
13:43 phf asciilifeform: i misunderstand the question then
13:44 phf i guess deedbot does something it shouldn't do..
13:45 asciilifeform phf: i have: 1) fg-genesis.vdiff 2) fg-genesis.vdiff.asciilifeform.sig
13:45 asciilifeform i want : these ^ deedbotted.
13:45 asciilifeform AS THEY ARE
13:45 asciilifeform doable ?
13:45 asciilifeform my current understanding is 'no, and never'
13:46 asciilifeform btw for folx who are thick as a brick i will point out, that i SPECIFICALLY DO NOT WANT vdiff's '---' turned by idiot koch liquishit into '- ---'
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13:46 phf huh, i didn't know that. i thought deedbot takes binary blobs sort of deal
13:47 asciilifeform does it ?
13:47 adlai raudus jactum est!
13:47 asciilifeform i thought it only ate clearsigns.
13:48 phf trinque wants me to deedbot logs, and if it only takes clearsigns, that would be kind of tricky.
13:48 asciilifeform ok what's the syntax then
13:48 asciilifeform where do i insert (1) and (2).
13:49 phf trinque: ^
13:49 asciilifeform and lol, did i just find another bug in gnudiff.
13:49 asciilifeform holy shit.
13:53 asciilifeform scratch, it is a bug in VDIFF
13:53 asciilifeform so i had two base64's png files in there,
↖ ↖ ↖
13:54 asciilifeform and apparently '+++' is a valid sequence inside these.
13:54 asciilifeform it occurred.
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13:54 asciilifeform MOTHERFUCKING in-band.
13:55 asciilifeform oh and yes, it occurred as FIRST CHAR IN LINE
13:55 asciilifeform so of course vdiff's awk cmd ate it and shat out 'false'.
13:55 asciilifeform right into the output stream.
13:55 adlai at which point the planet gains angular momentum, due to murphy spinning slower in his grave
13:57 asciilifeform ideas ?
13:58 adlai i don't think "+++ " can be a valid (subseq line 0 4)
13:58 adlai although i may be understanding the spec incorrectly
13:59 asciilifeform adlai: the space is the separator
13:59 adlai it could help to see the exact lines that caused this
14:00 adlai re:space, i realize the space is the separator in the patch syntax; the awk script is not looking for it though
14:01 asciilifeform adlai: it's actually a line of binhexolade that begins with '++'
14:01 asciilifeform gnudiff turns that into a '+++....'
14:01 asciilifeform and vdiff sees it and emits the barf.
14:02 asciilifeform retardation sandwich.
14:03 asciilifeform it is more or less literally a godelization of vdiff.
14:05 adlai the per-file header produced by gnudiff should contain two spaces, whereas b64 data should contain none
14:05 asciilifeform i have nfi right now what to do with this nonsense.
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14:05 asciilifeform adlai: spaces where ?
14:06 adlai in the lines that you do want that awk script to match
14:06 asciilifeform and what prevents some idiocy in the future from also 'containing two spaces' ?
14:06 asciilifeform do you understand, adlai , that i am NOT interested in beginning long career of idiot special case patches to vdiff ?
14:06 asciilifeform where it gets longer and longer ?
14:06 asciilifeform and gets nailed same way every time ?
14:08 adlai of course, although the current vdiff is a mishmash of three abstractions, two of which have their own DSLs (bash & awk), so some amount of abstraction leak is inevitable
14:09 asciilifeform and before anyone asks, the png's are not lolcats, they are schematics
14:10 asciilifeform and the pld verilog code in the genesis is WORTHLESS without the schematics
14:11 asciilifeform so right now i'm looking at the options:
14:11 asciilifeform a) deedbot hashes of binary garbage -- this is not vtronic!
14:12 asciilifeform b) release vtronic pld source only -- and deedbot apparently doesn't eat vpatches yet -- AND then would have no schematics
14:12 asciilifeform c) ???
14:12 adlai d) b64(gzip), hope that bug doesn't recur
14:13 adlai obviously this is not a replacement for a proper fix to vdiff itself
14:13 asciilifeform adlai: fuck that
14:13 asciilifeform you want 'hope', go to casino.
14:13 mircea_popescu !!up deadweasel
14:13 deedbot deadweasel voiced for 30 minutes.
14:14 adlai this 'hope' gets tested immediately. i'm only suggesting a quick fix here, still thinking about the proper one.
14:14 asciilifeform lel mircea_popescu shows up just when i was about to switch on my robotic autopopescu, to say 'stop trying to deedbot nonhumancomestibles!'
14:14 phf binary blobs remain an unsolved problem. the whole idea of binary (or base64) is contrary to some of the more philosophical aspects of vpatch you and mp like to discuss, so i don't know if base64 even solves it.
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14:14 mircea_popescu i showed up cuz done fucking, dun mind me.
14:14 asciilifeform lol
14:15 jurov what about converting pics to ppm/pnm?
14:15 asciilifeform jurov: and have 10MB vpatch?!
14:15 asciilifeform no thx.
14:16 asciilifeform phf: fact is, the schematics are a) human readable b) essential to the device c) not ascii
14:16 phf what about providing schematics in a textual format of some sort? it being a graph some form of graphviz dot or whatever
14:16 adlai as i see it the problem is that a valid gnudiff output is a false positive for the awk script, this actually has nothing to do with b64 that just happens to have produced the first example of this output
14:17 asciilifeform phf: fact is, they are not born in that form, and can only be converted to it by hand, with the attendant errors and weeks of necessary double, triple, dodecuple check
14:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581180 <<->> http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-november-2016-statement/#selection-459.89-459.120
14:18 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 17:54 adlai: asciilifeform: any forecast of when batch two will assemble & ship?
14:18 asciilifeform adlai: this is a) correct and b) unsolvable in the general case afaik.
14:18 phf asciilifeform: to some extent it goes back to the that thread about thinking on the board, and the result of thinking
14:18 mircea_popescu lol javascript rng stronger jesus christ,.
14:18 adlai my proper fix to this would be writing vdiff in zero-dependency ANSI CL, and replacing the "long career of idiot special case patches" with a short career of specific kelvin-reducing patches
14:19 asciilifeform phf: if you want to suggest a solution that doesn't reduce to my a) or b) or any c) that delays shipment for month+, i'm all ears.
14:19 asciilifeform adlai: how does that fix the 'magic string' problem ?
14:19 asciilifeform tell me
14:19 asciilifeform what will your vdiff do when it sees a '+++ foo' ?
14:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581191 << ffs. these people and their "features"...
14:20 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 18:03 shinohai: nah they still ask you to "paste copy of privkey in browser to enact enhanced features*
14:20 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581194 << "gpg dying" in usg speak is "tmsr is taking control of gpg" and no more.
14:20 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 18:08 thestringpuller: look i thought jgarzik's tweet about gpg dying was just an outlier of PRB nonsense but it's a plague now I've witnessed for myself, that is all
14:21 mircea_popescu we appreciate the compliment ; they can go serenade all the dumb cunts that don't know better, as before.
14:21 mircea_popescu because yes - we are taking over rsa altogether, from the format down.
14:21 phf asciilifeform: i suggested one, i'm still suggesting it. philosophically correct solution would be to reduce graph to something that can be reasoned about as text. note that i'm not even sure if i'm prepared to advocate for that as the main way forward, but it's an option.
14:21 mircea_popescu i'm way behind here am i.
14:22 asciilifeform phf: understand that the schematic as represented in the png is what ended up as the board. whereas if i were to redraw it by hand, that is an additional PROMISE
14:23 asciilifeform of course there is also the massive xml turd that the closed-source CAD shat out !
14:23 asciilifeform would prefer THAT ?
14:23 mircea_popescu js crypto ffs. javascript can't even number.
14:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581200 << "moxie" is not much of a name. /me would have never even seriously considered "moldbug" had intel not identified pw:rn to go with it.
14:24 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 18:12 Framedragger: fwiw i still like moxie, but it's sad that he's doing the "i don't use gpg anymore" thing, too
14:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mr mold blew own cover years ago when he linked to an academic paper he had written as undergrad
14:25 asciilifeform it was lulzy, i pointed it out publicly, and he for a while carried on the pretense of 'uh, not me...'
14:25 mircea_popescu afaik outside of my referencing him (and for that matter tlp) by name, it "wasn't know" at least "not publicly" etc. which is disjunct from "not knowable" ofcoars.
14:25 adlai asciilifeform: hypothetical program gets two files as input, old version and new version. proceeds to make diff itself, rather than relying on gnudiff; doesn't need to use awk matching since it's not massaging grudiff output but rather producing the vpatch directly itself, thus bypassing this magic string. am i missing something?
14:25 mircea_popescu but yes, plenty of people discretely knew.
14:26 asciilifeform adlai: why would i want your 1,000+ line difftron ?
14:26 asciilifeform instead of my ONE
14:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581208 << yes, silly you. stop trying to infofish or i'll negrate you, and permanently this time.
14:26 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 18:32 adlai: out of curiosity, why are orders encrypted to mircea_popescu , when i'd assume (silly me, all these assumptions!) that asciilifeform is the one actually doing the assembly + shipping?
14:27 mircea_popescu minding own business, as reflected in, for eg, having actually come up with something useful at some point, and also in the negative in, eg, not asking me to do your homework out of published data, is key.
14:27 mircea_popescu being an obnoxious turd, no matter how disguised, ain't gonna purchase you jack shit. no matter what you delude yourself into thinking it purchased.
14:28 adlai i do hope that identifying my assumptions as such as improvement upon leaving them implicit.
14:28 mircea_popescu this "concerned public" nubbinstardation didn't work for the original nubbins. you think you're special or some shit ?
14:29 asciilifeform eh, let's not beat the d00d to a pulp, he just ordered a unit
14:29 mircea_popescu yes, but what the fuck is it his business that old whore of hillary is doing my secretarial work ?
14:29 asciilifeform i have nfi why he'd care fwiw.
14:30 shinohai !!rate BingoBoingo 3 "Qntra: Herald of The Most Serene Republic"
14:30 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/5fx1y/?raw=true
14:30 adlai my intent was not nubbins's "you guys are operating badly", but rather "you guys are operating differently from how i expected, could you please educate me as to why my assumption is incorrect?"
14:30 mircea_popescu you don't operate jack shit, what expected ?
14:30 mircea_popescu your assumption is mistaken in your having one in the first place.
14:30 phf asciilifeform: perhaps binary blobs don't belong ~in~ vpatch in general for philosophical and mechanical reasons. my proposed solution 2 would be to extend vpatch tool to tack one base64 binary blobs after the fact. you can grep for "appears to be binary" or whatever it is and feed those separately to uuencode/decode.
14:31 shinohai !!v 2B3E25C636C5902702418816EEA2C627A195A8F17B08B44572CE4F4231AAEFB1
14:31 deedbot shinohai updated rating of BingoBoingo from 2 to 3 << "Qntra: Herald of The Most Serene Republic"
14:31 asciilifeform phf: i could easily write proggy that eats a binturd and produces a vdiff-harmless shell script that, when executed, disgorges same. but the IDEA, yes, bothers me
14:31 adlai mircea_popescu: i'm trying to replace the mistaken assumptions, stemming from operating hypothetical services within my own imagination.
14:31 asciilifeform phf: it is a sinful thing to do
14:31 asciilifeform phf: however, omitting the schems from the genesis is also sinful.
14:32 asciilifeform i'ma ask mircea_popescu to make the cut.
14:32 mircea_popescu just drop the whole imagination thing, it ain't useful. it just provides a way for you to waste your energy. go do things, if you ask then "hey, i am now opening shop for adlai's electronic dildos, but i don't intend to do X like nsa did, but this other way, anyone see a problem?" you'll get an answer and proceed from there.
14:33 adlai ok. sorry for getting you riled up again.
14:33 asciilifeform phf: mutilating and complicating vdiff or v is the very last thing i'm interested in.
14:34 asciilifeform it is the worst possible answer.
14:34 asciilifeform and i did promise to eschew non-7bitclean vpatches !
14:34 asciilifeform and so did phf !!
14:34 phf asciilifeform: uuencode/uudecode
14:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581221 << when i had to put in, eg, gpg tarball i apparently used base64 of it.
14:34 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 18:40 asciilifeform: WITHOUT THE IDIOT MUTILATION of clearsign
14:34 asciilifeform not interested in special cases in vdiff or v.
14:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you didn't v igt
14:35 asciilifeform *it
14:35 asciilifeform problem happens when v.
14:35 mircea_popescu did not. just deedbot.
14:35 asciilifeform correct
14:35 asciilifeform but fg-genesis is an item i produced out of thin aether. it is v material.
14:35 adlai re: "go do things", another thing i've been doing is studying towards http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-19#1556804. my understanding thus far is that it is firmly within "not possible to put into Bitcoin" territory, but still potentially interesting; and i am not yet confident enough in my understanding to try explaining to others; but i should be in a ~month.
14:35 a111 Logged on 2016-10-19 18:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-19#1556766 << state its math part sometime.
14:36 adlai (this is re: the "MimbleWimble" not-yet-altcoin)
14:36 mircea_popescu adlai your attempts to state "the moon math" for $item resulted in knowledge that... "not possible to put into bitcoin" ? this is mixnonsense wtf. math is math.
14:36 asciilifeform adlai: do me personal favour , and drink a long cup of tea, i am trying to deal with actual problem here, it needs solution, from able hands
↖
14:37 phf asciilifeform: i've got another one :)
14:37 asciilifeform phf: do say!
14:38 asciilifeform and how do the eulora folks solve this..?
14:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581240 << the never part there is iffy. i ~think~ that once we finally get tmsr-rsa, we will NOT be doing that idiocy.
14:38 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 18:46 asciilifeform: btw for folx who are thick as a brick i will point out, that i SPECIFICALLY DO NOT WANT vdiff's '---' turned by idiot koch liquishit into '- ---'
14:38 asciilifeform do they even v ?
14:38 mircea_popescu would you agree the correct move here is to actually specify clearsign format for tmsr-rsa ?
14:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha, in 'p' i have a 'next N bytes are payload' marker.
14:39 mircea_popescu ^
14:39 asciilifeform no magic chars, ffs
14:39 mircea_popescu exactly what i had in mind.
14:39 mircea_popescu should have header and offsets. fixed size item.
14:39 phf so vpatches all have preludes, by virtue of how diff/patch works (that's how you can just cat mail.mbox > patch). i was thinking of using that prelude for readme, but you can put base64 binary files there, and verbally communicate additional required steps. it's ugly, but it's without mutilating core concept. prelude is reveserved for whatever ugly special case hacks, etc.
14:39 asciilifeform btw P is rolling soon after FG crates ship.
14:40 asciilifeform phf: no promisetronics plox
14:40 asciilifeform verbally communicate ffs
14:40 asciilifeform pfff.
14:40 mircea_popescu phf these are palleative solutions, you understand i'm sure. the fundamental problem here is that clearisgn is a "magic char" driven thing like nonsense "nullterm" string constructions
14:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and wait till you get in the log to the OTHER inbandism idiocy of the day
14:41 mircea_popescu this may even be ok if the magic chars weren't fucking DASHES ffs.
14:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: next one involved + signs
14:41 mircea_popescu one tiny step under making them the letter "e"
14:41 mircea_popescu (hey, it's not THE most common english letter!)
14:41 asciilifeform if it's in 7bit ascii, it's equally sad
14:41 asciilifeform +, or -, .or 'e'
14:41 phf mircea_popescu: the whole thing is "magic char" driven though. in this particular case the failure is not just from clearsign, but from a combination of clearsign and vpatch own magic chars.
14:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and if it's not it's not printable.
14:41 asciilifeform correct
14:41 mircea_popescu phf not so. the rsa part is NOT magic char driven.
14:42 asciilifeform escape chars are evil.
14:42 asciilifeform they WILL die.
14:42 asciilifeform i, with own two hands, will kill them.
14:42 mircea_popescu you don't "exponent multiply" the payload "up until you run into the number of the beast"
14:42 phf mircea_popescu: i mean vpatch's own --- +++
14:42 mircea_popescu yes, that.
14:43 mircea_popescu incidentally asciilifeform : as a palleative : could we actually just fucking edit koch-rsa so that "----" rather than "-" becomes a symbol and deploy this on deedbot ?
14:43 mircea_popescu so it DOESN'T do - - for ONE -, but only for five -----
14:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in principle, but it will work exactly until next time binhex shits out a file with '----' insiden !
14:43 asciilifeform which is 100% legal binhexola
14:43 asciilifeform *inside
14:44 mircea_popescu in principle we should just make it the whole story, "----- BEGIN FUCKAGE -----"
14:44 asciilifeform until binhex emits THAT.
14:44 mircea_popescu yes. but fuck me sideways, how likely is this by now.
14:44 asciilifeform (how? someone will sign the log! and here it is, mircea_popescu wrote it!)
14:44 mircea_popescu i dunno, i'm just saying, cheap lye solution.
14:44 asciilifeform it is now 100% likely.
14:44 asciilifeform because right here it lives.
14:44 mircea_popescu I SPECIFICALLY WROTE fuckage!
14:45 mircea_popescu what, you think it just happened ? it didn't just happen.
14:45 asciilifeform well yes. any magic string can make the all-time-log undeedable.
14:45 asciilifeform which sucks.
14:45 asciilifeform (because there can never be a guarantee against said string occurring therin)
14:45 asciilifeform *therein
14:45 mircea_popescu no, we'll have phf indulge us, nuke specific magic string from log, replace it with something. LETS BUILD UNICODE!
14:45 asciilifeform aahahahahahahaha
14:45 mircea_popescu ikr?
14:46 asciilifeform multicode!
14:46 * asciilifeform warns up multivac
14:46 mircea_popescu phf trinque mod6 does this notion sound as idiotic to you as it does to him ?
14:46 mircea_popescu (i confess it does to me, has no value other than cheapness. but gotta see what peoples think too!)
14:46 asciilifeform 'go to heaven by not swearing'
14:47 mircea_popescu myeah.
14:47 mircea_popescu so i'ma just wait here for you to p, and comment thar rather than try and spec a tmsr-rsa-clearsign ?
14:48 asciilifeform it'll be presented as experimental (skull'n'crossbones) genesis, and up for comment.
14:48 jurov MIME avoids this by generating unique magic strings as delimiters after the fact. but you don't want to, i guess.
14:48 mircea_popescu mkay.
14:48 mircea_popescu jurov no because then you're stuck with a reflexive system
14:51 phf i'm convinced that blobs shouldn't go into vpatches, this completely breaks the whole readability/communication aspect of it, while still remaining promisestronic: you have to take some additional step after pressing to get the final images.
14:52 asciilifeform phf: i can see this angle very well
14:52 asciilifeform phf: there is only 1 problem , it leaves me with a useless genesis.
14:52 asciilifeform this is a textbook altschullerian triz-contradiction.
14:52 asciilifeform and it has to be actually resolved.
14:53 asciilifeform instead of 'no you cannot have X + Y, pick one'
14:54 mircea_popescu phf suppose you make an ai expert system to beat us at go. this gives you two practical options : either include 10gb worth of binary flags preset ; or else have us beat it at go for 10 centuries before it gets to where it plays like a freshly fucked 19yo.
↖
14:54 mircea_popescu what now of genesis blobs ?
14:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally it always amuses me how fascinated the redditard/ycombinatard always seem to be with the "pick 2 of 3" sort of shits, to the point of aspiring to have one named after themselves / renaming ancient ones in anecdotal rephrasings to honor whatever particularly hipstery doofus. never once does it occur to them that the only thing this means is "the problem's misstated".
14:56 asciilifeform bbrregglah's triangle! fdhfzerrglah's triangle!
14:56 asciilifeform etc
14:56 jurov i think phf means that everything should be converted into text representation
14:57 mircea_popescu "text representation" doesn't have that hard a meaning in this context though. what's it mean ?
14:57 phf mircea_popescu: i get the problem, but you can always some up with a strict no-blob solution, whether or not it's practical. in this case include your entire training set, that, being go boards, can literally be represented as ascii x/o drawings
14:57 jurov i don't see what's the problem with having 8-10x more data
14:57 jurov mircea_popescu: i offered netpbm, that's well specified ascii image format
14:57 mircea_popescu jurov that'd depend on how much data, of course.
14:57 asciilifeform jurov: i could trivially convert it to a shell script that 1) vdiff will eat without incident and 2) produces the original png when run. but this is morally problematic.
14:57 asciilifeform because it hides the problem.
14:58 mircea_popescu phf yes but can we come up0 with a general no blob solution ?
14:58 asciilifeform whereas a 'have your patch be 10MB' is idiocy and i will not waste time considering it.
14:58 asciilifeform (jurov's pnm)
14:58 jurov there's also svg using data uri, where you can put all data on one line, thus avoiding +++ on line start problem
14:58 mircea_popescu yes but then what the fuck.
14:58 asciilifeform jurov: may as well take the cad proggy's turd then
14:58 asciilifeform it isn't human readable !
14:58 mircea_popescu ^
14:58 asciilifeform at all!
14:59 phf mircea_popescu: no
15:00 mircea_popescu so then "it always can be done in particular" is no asnwer, is it ?
15:00 mircea_popescu the whole point we're trying to get out of is that adhocness
15:02 asciilifeform ^
15:03 phf mircea_popescu: well, the way i got what you grokked from v when it originally came out, is that vpatches are literate, for things that you can reason ~and meaningfully amend~. "unicode on a chalkboard" thread is also relevant
15:04 phf you can't do anything with a binary blob, in which case vpatch serves exclusively as a dumb payload or a container
15:05 asciilifeform this is entirely true
15:05 mircea_popescu yes, they are.
15:06 mircea_popescu ie, the reason koch-gpg-clearsing worked ok for us for a long time is that while flawed as alf correctly (and repeatedly for a year now) points out, nevertheless its hole falls atop a hole of v, namely that it doesn't do "-----"
15:06 phf so my proposed "put everything into prelude" solution preserves the literacy angle, and uses prelude as a "annotation" section, i.e. space for verbiage, supporting material etc. this will work for free with things like btcbase. can also pack it into a tar file and sign ~that~, but breaks a lot of tools
15:06 mircea_popescu while xml is shit, it's not directly clear that the correct move here isn't, eg, to make a tmsr-cad format.
15:08 asciilifeform that'd entail a tmsr cad.
15:08 asciilifeform which is 1,000+ manyears.
15:08 asciilifeform (if you want it to WORK)
15:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581254 << ahahah.
15:08 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 18:54 asciilifeform: it occurred.
15:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform hey it's not my fault you keep going around starting fires! oh what does this button do, oh what if we made own hardware, oh etc!
15:09 mircea_popescu first fuckgoats, then laundrygoats!
15:10 asciilifeform i will illustrate: yes, cad proggy can export netlist. but said netlist has no provisions for describing a) part valus (e.g., you get C10, and no place for '0.47uF') or the geometries of the physical chips (you get, e.g., IO1-15 but way to say 'that's pin 44 of a pqfp-44 plastic thinleadc carrier)
15:10 asciilifeform aaaha.
15:10 asciilifeform *values
15:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581272 << wouldja dpaste the whole pile ?
15:12 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 19:05 asciilifeform: i have nfi right now what to do with this nonsense.
15:12 asciilifeform for what would you want the sad pile ? the magic line is that 1 line
15:13 asciilifeform and i ain't signing this shit soup
15:13 mircea_popescu just as an artefact of the lifes and times.
15:13 mircea_popescu like that sad airplane in front of tm airport.
15:13 asciilifeform aite, 1s.
15:14 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/oNvsO/?raw=true
15:15 asciilifeform and haha, there are TWO +++ lines !
↖
15:15 asciilifeform not merely 1 !
15:15 mircea_popescu +++7F0QaZAgBgF3/7448/fmnc/DnT29zJipI3ZCWnifqyfJH6/nRzUt7979al5JtwrACPLNjDb5Pc false <<< ahahaha epic!
↖
15:15 mircea_popescu i was wtf is this extra shit on the side oh OH!
15:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform why aren't these schematics svg anyway btw ?
15:15 asciilifeform they simply aren't
15:15 asciilifeform take it up with the german schmucks
15:16 mircea_popescu so it spits out png ?
15:16 asciilifeform it does.
15:16 asciilifeform also dxf apparently, but i have not been able to get ~these~ to render anywhere!
15:16 mircea_popescu see, there's many problems here, and phf correctly identifies the general case in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581294 ; for eg : what if i want to scale ?
15:16 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 19:14 phf: binary blobs remain an unsolved problem. the whole idea of binary (or base64) is contrary to some of the more philosophical aspects of vpatch you and mp like to discuss, so i don't know if base64 even solves it.
15:17 asciilifeform it all reduces to the fact that there is no cad but that of the heathens
15:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform o try dxf to svg convert!
15:17 asciilifeform just as there are no tmsr chip fabs, etc
15:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i did, 0 result.
15:17 asciilifeform barf.
15:17 mircea_popescu gah
15:17 mircea_popescu that'd have been so cheap...
15:17 mircea_popescu can has dxf blob ?
15:17 asciilifeform cheap but then folks would have less incentive to use the turdware and That Would Be Wrong
15:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sure,1s
15:18 asciilifeform there'd be 2 of them, i'll make 1 for example
15:18 mircea_popescu kk,
15:18 mircea_popescu anyway, "png as v format" is inept beyond belief. let alone "i wish to inspect this matter and can't use my eyes", it's worse : "suppose i want this to be 3x as large" "oh can't do that". well da fuck.
15:19 asciilifeform http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/tmp/goat.dxf << and i will not that i HAVE NFI WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE or if it corresponds to what i saw when i drew the fucker!!!!
15:19 mircea_popescu gimme a minute.
15:19 asciilifeform and whether the component values are in there, or evaporated, etc
15:20 asciilifeform and note that this turd is now ~5MB !!
15:23 mircea_popescu i got it!
15:23 asciilifeform ..?
15:23 mircea_popescu a sec
15:26 mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PfVG0/?raw=true + http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1Pq8P/?raw=true then de-base64.
15:26 phf just attach this png instead http://glyf.org/tmp/dxf2fig.png :D
15:27 asciilifeform that looks like shit fwiw.
15:27 asciilifeform where the fuck did the butterfly missile valves come from phf !
15:27 phf :D
15:27 mircea_popescu 2,2 mb worth of <g id="ID_205" color="rgb(127,127,0)" stroke="currentColor" fill="none" stroke-width="0.055669275"/> <g id="ID_204" color="rgb(0,0,0)" stroke="currentColor" fill="none" stroke-width="0.055669275"/>
15:28 asciilifeform holy SHIT midnightmagic
15:28 asciilifeform err
15:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu,
15:28 mircea_popescu lol
15:28 asciilifeform 1+MB
15:28 asciilifeform no\thx
15:28 mircea_popescu 2.2 yes.
15:28 asciilifeform donotwant
15:28 mircea_popescu hey, your shit was 4.7!
15:28 asciilifeform the unreadable dxf yes
15:28 phf yeah, fig is 1.4mb
15:29 mircea_popescu it's big dude wtf do you want from us.
15:29 mircea_popescu make simpler schematics.
15:29 asciilifeform btw these render nowhere mircea_popescu
15:29 asciilifeform what the hell didja read'em in
15:29 mircea_popescu wut ? i'm looking at it as it is.
15:29 asciilifeform in what ??
15:29 mircea_popescu gimp
15:29 asciilifeform my gimp barfs
15:29 mircea_popescu da fuck ?!
15:29 phf which is probably ballpark what vectorizing those dxf's produces (probably with significant info loss)
15:29 asciilifeform Opening '/home/stas/gt/1.svg' failed: Could not open '/home/stas/gt/1.svg' for reading: Error domain 1 code 73 on line 11198 column 38 of file:///home/stas/gt: Couldn't find end of Start Tag path
15:29 trinque what's the problem with a P sig header appearing inside another ?
15:29 mircea_popescu your gimp is broken.
15:29 trinque seems feature-ful
15:30 asciilifeform Opening '/home/stas/gt/2.svg' failed: Could not open '/home/stas/gt/2.svg' for reading: Error domain 1 code 4 on line 1 column 1 of file:///home/stas/gt: Document is empty
15:30 trinque outer's offset extends beyond inner, so what
15:30 asciilifeform i tried in www browsers also -- also barf
15:30 trinque I signed his signed thing is already done
15:30 * trinque just made it to the surface.
15:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform get a working gimp ? i dunno what to say. mine eats it, i am looking at a 1960x2490 version of it atm, looks fine
15:30 asciilifeform trinque: waiwut
15:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is nonsense and you know it
15:30 mircea_popescu what!
15:30 asciilifeform a) 2MB crapaola, i'm not signing
15:31 asciilifeform b) svg apparently is not a standard
15:31 asciilifeform because i have nothing on my box that will show THIS svg
15:31 asciilifeform (others -- work)
15:31 asciilifeform what, i gotta allow gtk3 now ?!?!??!?!??!?!
15:31 mircea_popescu it seriously looks good. even your 10K for R5 is there
15:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i do not use gtk3!
15:31 asciilifeform i will NOT allow gtk.
15:31 asciilifeform 3
15:31 trinque asciilifeform: problem was indicated with "magic sig chars appearing in signed material"
15:31 asciilifeform trinque: that was problem 1 of 2
15:32 asciilifeform trinque: read, plz, log.
15:32 trinque problem one is not a problem
15:32 trinque I read the whole log.
15:32 asciilifeform ok now say to me how to vify a schematic.
15:32 trinque wtf if I invalidate #1 that says nothing of #21
15:32 trinque *2
15:33 asciilifeform trinque: 1 is still problem : it is impossible to deedbot an UNMUTILATED payload
15:33 asciilifeform i have '---' in there. it will FUCKING STAY '---'.
15:33 trinque I am discussing a supposed tmsr sign format that does not have but a header and payload
15:33 mircea_popescu phf do you have gimp anywhere ?
15:33 asciilifeform trinque: that is simple and i solved it.
15:34 asciilifeform trinque: just not released yet.
15:34 trinque alrighty then
15:34 phf mircea_popescu: no, but your svg works with mac's default tooling
15:34 trinque release and I'll build into deedbot
15:34 asciilifeform i am NOT signing 2+MB of <path d="M 74.336 74.2623 A 0.03178446947803285 0.03178446947803285 0 0 1 74.381 74.3072 " stroke-width="0.0635"/>
15:34 asciilifeform <path d="M 74.1479 74.5402 A 0.03174909447527987 0.03174909447527987 0 0 1 74.103 74.4953 " stroke-width="0.0635"/>
15:34 mircea_popescu phf i have nfi what he's on about. seems to me totally broken gimp install.
15:34 asciilifeform this is lunacy
15:34 asciilifeform and i've been using THIS gimp since 2010.
15:35 asciilifeform for 100% of all bitmap work.
15:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform look, saying "the v is not allowing x char sequence i wanna use" is one thing. saying "o woes i have this here book of 5mn chars and i want it to be readable in 3 minutes" is another thing.
15:35 asciilifeform fwiw inkscape won't eat it either
15:35 asciilifeform nor FreeCAD
15:35 mircea_popescu there's no way to make an arbitrarily complex schematic fit in an arbitrarily short space.
15:35 asciilifeform it isn't complex !
15:35 asciilifeform it is more or less as simple as a schematic gets in life
15:35 mircea_popescu well the dxf you produced - is
15:36 mircea_popescu convertor cut it in half, which considering we went from binary to readable format is pretty performanc.
15:36 mircea_popescu t*
15:36 jurov base64 -d PfVG0
15:36 jurov <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
15:36 jurov <svg viewBox="-0base64: invalid input
15:36 jurov ^ something iffy with mircea's base64
15:36 mircea_popescu ugh
15:36 jurov when i do base64 -di
15:36 asciilifeform jurov: ^ is what i did
15:36 jurov then it decodes and i can view the svg
15:36 mircea_popescu jurov did you concat them correctly ?
15:36 phf jurov: is it not -Di
15:37 asciilifeform i had -i -d
15:37 jurov i de-base64 each one, then concat and i can open it fine
15:37 phf actually no idea, it's mac's flags
15:37 mircea_popescu o.O
15:37 asciilifeform btw the first svg is cut off mid-tag
15:37 asciilifeform the second --- not
15:37 asciilifeform (closed properly)
15:37 mircea_popescu you first debased then concat'd and it still worked ?!
15:37 mircea_popescu epic.
15:37 phf mircea_popescu: i have nfi either, i have it unpacked
15:37 asciilifeform BUT still not opens anywhere.
15:37 jurov sha512: 45d2dd64fee8410f3a42715e557b20a480e234ae04fa9e18552bbc0510fc5f57288dbfbdc813ad9f4563a29fcae45caf8d885f96c2f6df55da1febac1b3515ff goat.svg
15:38 mircea_popescu ill report in a sec, machine currently hosed painting the svg over 200k x 200k canvas
15:38 asciilifeform eee2b71ee18e7a7fe2db81a89dc143a5eabf3e88d6e72df1d5e11c8772999fe99baf1900ade2e8a2797dea8f3cd740383a4705a3cc87b2af24517b348c0e65d1 1.svg
15:38 asciilifeform e4146be79663731228bfb1d9efe20e6df9ee18921ebeb1a40e2f18d17b7b4c6ceb8606af8ffa8cbcd99ab174e714a927443f9632ebd812328de4c9d9a9086c0b 2.svg
15:38 phf (curl 'http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PfVG0/?raw=true'; curl 'http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1Pq8P/?raw=true')|base64 -D -o foo.svg
15:38 mircea_popescu ^ phf did it correctly.
15:40 asciilifeform and ftr i am not signing a document that i am supposed to be the original author of but CANNOT GET TO HAPPEN ON MY BOX
15:40 mircea_popescu hang on dawg, we're just trying to figure shit out here
15:41 mircea_popescu nobody's asking you to sign anything yet.
15:41 asciilifeform just sayin'.
15:42 mircea_popescu this box is so hosed...
15:43 mircea_popescu 45d2dd64fee8410f3a42715e557b20a480e234ae04fa9e18552bbc0510fc5f57288dbfbdc813ad9f4563a29fcae45caf8d885f96c2f6df55da1febac1b3515ff /home/mircea/Documents/goat1.svg
15:43 asciilifeform i am apparently 'blessed' with turning over every stone in every garden and releasing every type of insect possible.
15:45 asciilifeform the original, btw, is 600+kB of xml. but this does 0 without the closed-source turd viewer.
15:45 asciilifeform which i am not even sure differs substantially from the svg situation.
15:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i could readily reduce the svg if you wish, most of it is dreamweaver-style pointless tagging
↖
15:45 mircea_popescu prolly only about 500kb or so of it is meat.
15:46 asciilifeform possibly, but does this solve the problem.
15:46 asciilifeform the problem of signing shit soup.
15:46 asciilifeform that probably won't display on my box no matter how massaged, even.
15:46 mircea_popescu i have nfi, you won't fix your set-up so you can see how great a svg i made out of your dxf!
15:46 asciilifeform other svg's (e.g., the ones on pediwikia) seem to work...
15:46 asciilifeform why --- only satan knows
15:46 phf asciilifeform: did you ~concatenate base64 originals first~?
15:46 asciilifeform no, why
15:47 asciilifeform ooh
15:47 asciilifeform now displays..
15:47 asciilifeform lol
15:47 asciilifeform massive turd tho.
15:48 asciilifeform what, incidentally, will happen if http://www.w3.org/2000/svg dies ?
15:49 asciilifeform or begins to include something it oughn't
15:49 jurov same if libpng does?
15:49 asciilifeform libpng doesn't ask for a turd from the www afaik !
15:49 phf asciilifeform: nothing at this point, none of the xml parses uses DTDs (as predicted by naggum)
15:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform are you nuts ? libpng eats 10mb+ of www turds!
15:50 asciilifeform i do not want to sign a 'insert usg turd here!' even if theoretically the instruction is not followed on extant renderer
15:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not per image load !
15:50 mircea_popescu yes, per image load - if you don't have them, image won't load.
15:50 asciilifeform if nic is unplugged, libpng works
15:50 asciilifeform i tested.
15:51 mircea_popescu yes, but if nic is never plugged and you never import turds - doesn'\t work
15:51 phf asciilifeform: so do svg parsers
15:51 mircea_popescu i also tested
15:51 mircea_popescu so no, png in no sense better than svg in this theoretical approach.
15:51 mircea_popescu svg however better - it can be read, as text, and drawn, by hand. png, not so much.
15:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: png is a bitmap format! where does it ask for www turd? can haz snippet ?
15:51 jurov asciilifeform: the mircea's file does not have dtd declaration anyway...
15:52 mircea_popescu holy shit you're going to argue from "theoretical logic" ?
15:52 mircea_popescu jurov ikr!
15:52 asciilifeform jurov: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
15:52 asciilifeform <svg viewBox="-0.07500000000000284 -248.995 196.2842 249.07" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.0" overflow="visible">
15:52 asciilifeform is how my copy begins
15:52 asciilifeform this differs from jurov's ?
15:53 jurov it's just an attribute. when i include some TEXT chunk in png with an url, nothing happens either.
15:53 mircea_popescu lol
15:57 jurov as opposed to <!DOCTYPE shit blabla "http://webserver/blabla.dtd"> - if you feed this to xml decoder, it gets tempted to fetch it
15:57 asciilifeform and tomorrow everyone ends up on boxes with gtk44444 and it fetches ALL urls.
15:57 asciilifeform then what.
15:58 jurov nukes!!!
15:58 asciilifeform this is no good, jurov .
15:58 mircea_popescu at this point i'm not at all clear what problem you're trying to solve here, but it seems to have become "i wish to pack an arbitrarily long poem into an arbitrarily short notation in such a way it will never be forgotten."
15:58 asciilifeform it was short when i wrote it.
15:59 asciilifeform and is to STAY short.
15:59 mircea_popescu not apparently.
15:59 mircea_popescu give me something other than a 5mb dxf to work with, as per this "Short when i wrote it" ?
15:59 asciilifeform the actual semantic content of that schem is miniscule.
15:59 mircea_popescu so then tmsr-cad ?
15:59 asciilifeform apparently
15:59 asciilifeform and i haven't one
15:59 mircea_popescu but if that's what it is - neither v nor deedbot need fixing for it.
15:59 mircea_popescu so at least we know.
16:00 asciilifeform it was not my favoured hypothesis that they must be fixed.
16:00 mircea_popescu yeah.
16:00 asciilifeform simply that i am stuck in this corner, where there is a thing that needs doing, that i do not have with what to do.
16:00 asciilifeform at all.
16:00 mircea_popescu yeah. but do you agree the actual problem is the lack of a tmsr-cad ? as far as "right things" go ?
16:00 asciilifeform yes.
16:01 mircea_popescu alright. any favoured palliative solutions ?
16:01 asciilifeform and tmsr-fab, and many other things.
16:01 asciilifeform and i find myself agreeing with phf
16:01 mircea_popescu hey, i don't want unreadable turds in v trees either.
16:01 asciilifeform a 'everyone scrolls past when reading' turd does NOT belong in v.
16:01 asciilifeform under any circumstances.
16:01 mircea_popescu it'd be too fucking easy a hole for adlais to slither into.
16:02 asciilifeform the schem will be nonclearsigned, the sig -- posted. the boards -- physically wrapped in copies of the schem. is all i can offer.
16:02 asciilifeform cpld program - vified.
16:02 mircea_popescu certainly exists as svg now as well.
16:02 asciilifeform exists but i ain't signing that horror show.
16:02 mircea_popescu myeah.
16:03 mircea_popescu good thing signature mechanisms are still human-administered or else we'd be sol.
16:03 mircea_popescu "cold equations" is bad enough when you ~fuck up~, but let me tell you about when you didn't even fuck up in the first place.
16:03 asciilifeform which brings back to #1 horror -- how do i deedbot a vpatch and its sig..?
16:03 asciilifeform is there any means for doing this ?
16:03 mircea_popescu it just eats the patch straight neh ?
16:03 asciilifeform not afaik
16:04 mircea_popescu uhm.
16:04 asciilifeform it eats clearsigns neh ?
16:04 mircea_popescu myeah.
16:05 asciilifeform i dunno if there exists upon this cursed earth a rope that doesn't break when i go and pull on it...
16:05 mircea_popescu so what are you sauing here, gotta expand deedbot format so it also accepts btc-dev detached sigs ?
16:05 asciilifeform not so fast.
16:05 asciilifeform i have nfi yet.
16:06 asciilifeform thread began with my asking people to think about this one.
16:06 asciilifeform maybe it has a clean answer.
16:06 mircea_popescu q : can clearsigned document be created out of detachsig document ?
16:06 mircea_popescu i suspect we just write a convertor.
16:06 asciilifeform afaik: not with standard gpg, or such that standard gpg will eat the result
16:06 mircea_popescu fuck standard gpg. in principle - this must work.
16:07 asciilifeform right
16:07 asciilifeform but i don't see a good argument for fucking it but not to deaoth
16:07 asciilifeform *to death
16:08 trinque how far out is P ?
16:08 asciilifeform trinque: i cannot answer this, because it is an experimental weapon
16:08 trinque reasonable.
16:08 asciilifeform it won't be fired in battlefield tonight, that is for sure.
16:09 trinque alright, but I am willing to entertain running gpg and P in parallel for some time, ftr.
16:09 trinque new features could come on the P side.
16:09 asciilifeform trinque: it is a very simple thing, think 'rpn calculator' and you almost have it.
↖ ↖
16:09 asciilifeform moves the complexity, such that remains, into the payloads.
16:10 * trinque read ascii's "no formats", sounds nice.
16:13 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DYPuN/?raw=true << simple example, verification of a signature using public modulus entered 'by hand'
16:14 asciilifeform 'z' simply puts a 0 on the stack, and if ptron sees 0-9 or A-F it shoves the 0 leftward 4 bits, and stuffs in the nibble in place
16:14 asciilifeform thereby you get a stateless hexbignumreader
16:14 asciilifeform there are other commands, e.g., X takes 2 numbers off stack and modexponentiates
16:14 asciilifeform = takes 2 numbers off stack and puts 0 if they are equal, etc
16:15 asciilifeform there are other operators, single character also
16:15 mircea_popescu trinque care to look into if you can bash the signature out of detachsig and attach it as clearsigned ?
16:15 asciilifeform to make the parser almost nonexistently simple
16:16 asciilifeform also this is bad example, in real life no use of p will look like this
16:16 phf asciilifeform: what's the purpose of an extra number in the example?
16:16 asciilifeform which number is extra
16:17 phf 0x9ae... seems like it
16:17 mircea_popescu trinque theoretically at least it should be just transform the binary sig into a plaintext packet and glue it in.
16:17 trinque mircea_popescu: did, the signed item has to have already been run through gpg's idiot preprocessor
16:17 asciilifeform phf: it is the known result
16:17 mircea_popescu ah yes, there is that. so can you try an actual messagelist item ?
16:17 asciilifeform phf: with which the = ends up comparing the output of X
16:18 phf asciilifeform: you have 9ae 2ff 100 da9 * = unless i'm misreading
16:18 asciilifeform phf: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ApmIh/?raw=true << same example but before i stripped out the comments
16:19 asciilifeform (whitespaces and endlines are no-ops in P)
16:19 asciilifeform and also anything found in a ( )
16:19 asciilifeform 'Z' dumps stack, it will not be in released prog
16:20 phf wait so X multiplies da9 and 100, = compares the result with 2ff, 9ae???
16:20 asciilifeform noooooooooo
16:20 asciilifeform modular exponentiation
16:20 trinque mircea_popescu: reading up on the mangling process, maybe
16:20 asciilifeform * would multiply.
16:20 phf oooh oooh
16:20 phf nm
16:21 asciilifeform and yes this is a prog language where all ops are 1 character of an american kbd
16:21 asciilifeform and no lookahead
16:21 asciilifeform EVER
16:21 asciilifeform ALL ASCII FILES are valid p-code
16:22 asciilifeform (non-ascii files also valid, in 'orc mode', octets 0x1f and below, or 0x7f and above, are ignored
16:23 asciilifeform 0x20 and below rather
16:23 asciilifeform there are things that are not in p yet but have to be
16:23 asciilifeform that i omitted for simplicity
16:24 asciilifeform for instance, p code is required to first thing put on the stack 1) how many p-instrs are permitted 2) how many bits wide the fixints are
↖
16:24 asciilifeform if no 1+2 -- no go.
16:24 asciilifeform if overflow, ever -- terminates with sad.
16:24 asciilifeform if overrun of cycle count -- also sad.
16:25 asciilifeform anyway there are other important aspects (e.g., a pubkey looks like:
16:25 mircea_popescu as an interesting side effect, "random file"
16:25 mircea_popescu ("find the longest ascii file so that a) lzw compression is under 1% and b) the encryption scheme therein discussed is trivially breakable)
16:25 mircea_popescu trinque mind that there'\s a loose cr/lf spuriously at the end of plaintext payload
16:26 asciilifeform mz2FF!...........pz10001!
16:27 trinque I'd have to spelunk further to confirm, but it looks like clearsigning is canonicalize -> sign
16:27 trinque which holy shit
16:27 asciilifeform what this does is store the modulus in variable #13 ('m' simply pushes integer 13 to stack, '!' stores top of stack in var # second-of-stack)
16:27 mircea_popescu trinque yup it is
16:28 asciilifeform to verify a sig, you feed ptron this VALID PROGRAM ^ -- which creates the pubkey in memory -- and then on top of that, the sigogram
16:28 trinque so then the original item would have to have been detach-signed with line endings already mangled to get a clearsigned version that'd verify
16:28 asciilifeform sorry, ez10001!
16:28 trinque and whatever else it does to the poor clearsigs
16:28 asciilifeform we normally call exponent 'e'
16:28 asciilifeform but this is mere convention.
16:29 mircea_popescu trinque wait what ?!
16:29 asciilifeform then verificator goes 'zSOMETHINGOROTHEREXPECTED m@e@X='
16:30 asciilifeform (spaces for clarity only)
16:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this sounds pretty delishious tbh.
16:30 asciilifeform this pulls m out, and e, and X-es'em, and ='s result with SOMETHING...
16:30 asciilifeform etc
16:30 asciilifeform this is all just sample for flavour.
16:31 asciilifeform think 'forth'
16:31 asciilifeform e.g., # is dup
16:31 asciilifeform $ gets N bits from your FUCKGOATS
16:31 asciilifeform (N is expected on top of stack)
16:31 asciilifeform +,-,/,* -- arithmetics
16:31 asciilifeform H halts, G -- gcd, etc
16:31 asciilifeform i could go on but why ruin surprises.
16:32 mircea_popescu alf finally made his own asm!
16:32 asciilifeform you ~compose~ p operations by physically concatting the p-progs.
16:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is neither 1st nor 10th 'faux computer' i make.
16:32 mircea_popescu oic. well it's the first here.
16:33 trinque mircea_popescu: it seems to me the two paths (clearsign and detached-sign) sign completely different piles of bits, if the clearsign first goes through some transformer
16:33 trinque so then if I've got a sig of an un-transformed item in ML, it may contain things the transformer would've stripped/modified if it were clearsigned
16:34 mircea_popescu trinque the clearsign iirc is a stricter operation ; but plenty of signedtxts emerge untouched from both processes.
16:34 * asciilifeform bbl, meat
16:41 mircea_popescu trinque at the very least a result here could be where you machine-verify that X item deedbotted is equal to X' v-item through the process of a) X valid clearsigned b) X' valid detach0igned c) X = preprocessor(X')
16:42 mircea_popescu then eg. the notes field could include link to ml.
16:42 trinque for sure. I'll let all know what I find.
16:42 mircea_popescu but in general speaking, usg.koch blessed us with an idiocy which has to be resolved somehow.
16:49 trinque clearsig "canonicalization" includes line ending conversion to crlf before sig, and lf-only endings probably represent *all* submissions to the ML
16:49 trinque ben_vulpes: was it you and me that ran into this problem at some point? I cannot remember regarding what
16:50 mircea_popescu and then koch wants to go around pretending like he's one of us.
↖
16:50 mircea_popescu how, pray tell ? and check out how easy it is to unearth the heathens.
16:50 trinque and the process is not reversible, couldn't even put the information in like "this had lf" somewhere
↖
16:51 trinque --decrypt gives you a freshly resquashed turd your machine never saw before.
16:51 mircea_popescu aha.
16:52 ben_vulpes possibly
~ 39 minutes ~
17:31 ben_vulpes yeah that sounds familiar, actually.
17:32 ben_vulpes either i remember a decrypted clearsign's hash not matching or am inventing the memory
17:35 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581116 << very nice to have, much thx!
17:35 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 05:49 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: scan results: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/P5jFW/
17:37 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581842 << this is entirely so, and iirc i smashed my head into this very wall when jurov made ( per my scheme ) 'turdatron' ml system
17:37 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 21:50 trinque: and the process is not reversible, couldn't even put the information in like "this had lf" somewhere
17:39 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581840 << i dunno that he even bothers to pretend, he is a confessed recipient of microshit cheques
17:39 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 21:50 mircea_popescu: and then koch wants to go around pretending like he's one of us.
17:39 asciilifeform ( and devil knows what else )
17:41 Framedragger ohno he received a cheque from microshit??? that hitler!! cmon now.
17:41 Framedragger /me received one from google even, once. (for doing stuff related to... tor!!11eleven)
17:41 asciilifeform Framedragger: not salary
17:41 asciilifeform DONATION
17:41 asciilifeform they approve of the type of work that gpg turd is.
17:42 Framedragger ah, well, that does make one feel.. more uneasy..
17:42 asciilifeform very different animal.
17:42 Framedragger i see what you mean.
17:44 asciilifeform it is not so hard to buy people, without even saying a word;
17:44 asciilifeform when they are poor; but 100x easier when poor+stupid also.
17:44 asciilifeform !#s esr
17:44 a111 117 results for "esr", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=esr
~ 16 minutes ~
18:00 asciilifeform i was not going to expand on the 'p' thread until the proggy is done, but this is probably a good time to say 1 more
↖ ↖
18:01 asciilifeform there are no special-purpose ops to produce hashes
18:01 asciilifeform it is POSSIBLE to write, e.g., sha512, or keccak, in p, but not essentially necessary, because one of the philosophical turtles of p is that you SEE what you are signing
18:02 asciilifeform e.g., want to sign hash? get it whereever you like, and drop it IN THE PCODE
18:02 asciilifeform (pcode can output, if it weren't obvious, another pcode)
18:04 asciilifeform if my sig is of 'A35A727799941F46F4500F25389F21F4E995F64AC65341080052EC014A8BACD76D992D0C7A5B0250502D', that thing will appear ~to naked eye~ in the pcode as 'zA35A727799941F46F4500F25389F21F4E995F64AC65341080052EC014A8BACD76D992D0C7A5B0250502D' .
18:04 asciilifeform etc.
18:04 * asciilifeform bbl.
18:14 mircea_popescu Framedragger hey, do you also bitch at people who bitch at, eg, mozilla guy who happens to have invented the shit mozilla runs being "bad" because he donated 1k to whoever ?
18:15 mircea_popescu im sure koch got >1k and IM FUCKING SURE microsoft is worse than any "anti-gay-marriage racists" out there.
18:20 mircea_popescu so in short : no, it's not ok to take microsoft money. human trafficking money, the proceeds of sales of endangered baby panda tears, the ransom paid for the return of obama's kidnapped daughters, all that is a-ok.
18:20 mircea_popescu microsoft money, that's unspendable.
18:24 Framedragger i guess it's legitimate to bitch about that. i've never been sure. but i did poke at an acquaintance who had plans of working at gchq. to be consistent, i should.. be consistent.
18:25 mircea_popescu i don't specifically care, myself, but i can't seem to bring any argument that'd stand when someone decides "fuck him, he's a microsoft tool".
18:26 mircea_popescu because well... he is. and if you take the ethical stand that you don't want to be paid by rapists and murderers, then microsoft tops the list in any reasonable interpretation and that's what it is.
18:29 mircea_popescu ~maybe~ the girl really like it ; and ~maybe~ the dude had it coming to him. but ~certainly~ there is no room for windows & co in this world. the advantage of software, it allows definitive statements to be made like that (an inverse of the problem of liability, wherein hardware lock making company CAN replace any broken locks it shipped, but software lock making company can't because they're all the same lock.) this was used
18:29 mircea_popescu to justify why there's no legal recourse for bad software - and guess what, it stands just as well to explain why it is better to murder and rape than to microsoft.
18:41 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/P5yRd/?raw=true
18:41 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~
19:43 * mod6 catches up on megal0g
~ 58 minutes ~
20:42 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/65E53AAD3C50368DCEDAB5E9AE49FF9F04FC13CC7B2AA14B00B60A6765883426 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1733...6777 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.201.13.182 (ssh-rsa key from 109.201.13.182 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (int0.client.access.fanaptelecom.net. IR)
20:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AF377674893AE5B24A2C05E8CEA017E2B825916DC2B1288D65229198BF0B7D6D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1893...6201 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.253.102.107 (ssh-rsa key from 87.253.102.107 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-107-102.253-87.enter.it. IT)
20:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/39DF9D425039282DC6DD48D8107CDC48D35C1D374D5B0BACFBBA032EBEB9A8D1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1560...3563 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '38.96.32.145 (ssh-rsa key from 38.96.32.145 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US CA)
20:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F24AA9CF11A01F8E3F25C060D49840FB4E0D7D78FF146A3024B3BFEE92EC85BB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1791...1257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.41.78.163 (ssh-rsa key from 213.41.78.163 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (radius-front2.fr.colt.net. GB)
21:00 shinohai During Festivus, for every key phuctored a router gets its wings
↖
~ 37 minutes ~
21:37 phf so stanford release knuth's annual lecture in a "360" video format, and the write up is disgusting "stanford part of the future!!1". basically you get a 7gib video/80mib audio stream, a fraction of which is a distorted slides and knuth, where's the bulk of which is audience and static ceiling. the thing doesn't render on anything but google stack and ipads. i spent about two days jumping through various hoops trying to get it to render
21:37 phf in some usable format (short of installing google chrome of course) and so far "transcoding with a deskew shader" seems like the most viable option ???
21:38 phf https://vptl.stanford.edu/news/stanford-computer-scientist-donald-knuth-s-annual-lecture-be-streamed-live-video-offers-virtual
21:39 asciilifeform '“This year, our Learning Innovation team is going to be piloting the use of a new virtual reality 360-degree video camera that will actually allow all those people tuning in over the internet to attend the lecture as if they were physically in the auditorium,”'
21:39 asciilifeform now if only there were also a way to pump the unwashed student's armpit flavour into my office also !!
21:39 asciilifeform will taste GREAT with balanced diet of backs of heads etc
21:40 asciilifeform 'By using a computer mouse, or by tilting a smartphone or tablet, participants will be able to individually control the video angle and experience 360-degree viewing.'
21:40 asciilifeform simulate dozing off, staring at ceiling !
21:41 asciilifeform just like at your real uni lectures 20 yrs ago!
21:41 asciilifeform mega-win.
21:41 phf of course the only proper way of watching this video is using Google Cardboard! https://vr.google.com/cardboard/
21:41 asciilifeform hlrphf
21:51 phf i will flatten this shit, or help me god. so far the solution i figured that doesn't require writing code or using dodgy third party software is to use the video as a material texture inside a sphere in blender. with some 3d space camera shuffling i can produce two separate video streams, one of knuth and one of slides, but the result looks like dog so far.
↖
21:52 asciilifeform he didn't release the raw slides ?
↖
21:54 phf guy does hand written transparents mostly or whatever else he can put under an overhead projector
21:58 phf this is more like watching a millenarian speak on a subject of his avocation than anything else
↖
21:58 asciilifeform phf: if you get a usable output, plz consider posting.
~ 22 minutes ~
22:21 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/ruskies-chase-isis-out-of-palmyra-isis-returns-hours-later/ << Qntra - Ruskies Chase ISIS Out Of Palmyra, ISIS Returns Hours Later
22:22 shinohai bwahahaha lulzy
22:29 mircea_popescu dude wtf, can't just have a text transcript ?
22:29 mircea_popescu fucking monkeys.
22:31 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/65E53AAD3C50368DCEDAB5E9AE49FF9F04FC13CC7B2AA14B00B60A6765883426 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1629...7809 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.201.13.182 (ssh-rsa key from 109.201.13.182 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (int0.client.access.fanaptelecom.net. IR)
22:31 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C68477E648E056039DA3F49F5CAF6C7F86A2F6DEA52688B3A2974D1A8F8FCEB1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1017...8033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.16.17 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.16.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
22:33 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581891 << lol it just keeps churning 'em isn't it.
22:33 a111 Logged on 2016-12-12 02:00 shinohai: During Festivus, for every key phuctored a router gets its wings
22:37 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581904 <<< ahahaha. win.
22:37 a111 Logged on 2016-12-12 02:51 phf: i will flatten this shit, or help me god. so far the solution i figured that doesn't require writing code or using dodgy third party software is to use the video as a material texture inside a sphere in blender. with some 3d space camera shuffling i can produce two separate video streams, one of knuth and one of slides, but the result looks like dog so far.
22:38 mircea_popescu are you going to be making me models next ? :D :D :D
22:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581905 << apparently knuth is blisfully unaware the micros even exist.
22:39 a111 Logged on 2016-12-12 02:52 asciilifeform: he didn't release the raw slides ?
22:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581907 << which is the very fucking point, of course. "all equal, all stupid, all vorvarts!"
22:39 a111 Logged on 2016-12-12 02:58 phf: this is more like watching a millenarian speak on a subject of his avocation than anything else
22:40 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AF377674893AE5B24A2C05E8CEA017E2B825916DC2B1288D65229198BF0B7D6D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1368...9973 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.253.102.107 (ssh-rsa key from 87.253.102.107 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host-107-102.253-87.enter.it. IT)
22:40 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/39DF9D425039282DC6DD48D8107CDC48D35C1D374D5B0BACFBBA032EBEB9A8D1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1350...3569 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '38.96.32.145 (ssh-rsa key from 38.96.32.145 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US CA)
22:43 mod6 All in all, I agree that blobs do not belong in a vpatch. As stated, they are for readable, grokable, text only.
22:44 mod6 That said, I'm not positive what is a favorable solution to this. For me, I guess I would have considered a disjointed genesis. All code in a genesis.vpatch, plus a comment in the code or README.txt file that points to a clearsigned, base64 encoded deed of the (repeatably extractabale) binary (image in this case).
22:46 mod6 I support no such futher complixity in V/vdiff to deal with these blobs. No one-offisms, etc.
22:46 phf fwiw that solution works reasonably with btcbase (right now it's not used, but it picks up a README from each patches folder and cats it inline before the graph, so i can add a "here's all the additional stuff that you might need for this v tree")
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22:48 mircea_popescu meh, but how do you verify it
22:49 phf you verify vpatch using its sig, you verify additional assets using their sig. you can't verify that the set is exhaustive though
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22:49 mircea_popescu aqnd all sorts of things
22:49 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/484822910CDA12E35E6F4186FAC9CEC226A489C3AFE0B9136AD9B2F5373FD65A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1017...8033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.4.13 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.4.13 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
22:49 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C68477E648E056039DA3F49F5CAF6C7F86A2F6DEA52688B3A2974D1A8F8FCEB1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1017...8033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.16.17 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.16.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
22:49 mircea_popescu bundling data with code is a serious problem ; the v model brings it in a very sharp focus
22:50 mircea_popescu (i've been running into a version fo this in eulora too ; with the art assets)
22:50 phf fwiw it's the same with wordpress
22:50 mircea_popescu yeah ; mp-wp had no themes did it.
22:51 phf it didn't but even mp-wp has a bunch of admin interface images. magnifying glass, scissors, that sort of stuff
22:51 mircea_popescu myeah
23:02 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581931 << exactly this!
23:02 a111 Logged on 2016-12-12 03:49 phf: you verify vpatch using its sig, you verify additional assets using their sig. you can't verify that the set is exhaustive though
23:02 asciilifeform ftr i still have thought of no satisfactory solution.
23:03 mircea_popescu including data with the code is a nightmare not least because it puts state into things
23:04 mircea_popescu "oh, THIS leaf doesn't go with THAT datapile! gotta use THAT' datapile! except if you feed THAT' datapile to THIS' leaf it comes alive at night and fucks your wife!"
23:05 mircea_popescu i fear the only way forward is for data to be base64'd, deedbotted, and then referenced as such in code.
23:05 asciilifeform sorta what i tried earlier today...
23:05 asciilifeform reactor melted
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23:09 asciilifeform i considered making, by hand, a v-able netlist, with component values etc. , in sexpr format, for a nonexistent tmsr cad. the real problem is that everyone, without exception and including myself, will insist on viewing the 'unofficial' pictoral schematic.
23:09 asciilifeform because you can't human-read netlist, not really.
23:11 asciilifeform (for folx who have nfi -- 'netlist' is an adjacency matrix representing an undirected graph, e.g., electric circuit)
~ 31 minutes ~
23:43 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1581929 << http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot not to make more work for you, but the smooshing of ircbot and logbot apparently hosed your pre-graph catment
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23:43 a111 Logged on 2016-12-12 03:46 phf: fwiw that solution works reasonably with btcbase (right now it's not used, but it picks up a README from each patches folder and cats it inline before the graph, so i can add a "here's all the additional stuff that you might need for this v tree")
23:43 ben_vulpes i also have no suggestions for fixing your problem, asciilifeform
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