Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-05-19 | 2016-05-21 → ↓
06:33 Framedragger http://trilema.com/2015/a-proper-social-site-for-the-bdsm-community/#comment-117298
06:33 Framedragger i want to write something like this, but dread the fact that i would have to review a shitton of shitty attempts. one approach, i guess, is to just dismiss those attempts, come up with a sane and straightforward design, and implementing without too much fuss...
06:33 Framedragger s/implementing/implement/
06:48 Framedragger dunno, store/verify group membership via messages on OP_RETURNs (dunno if folks here frown upon storing data in OP_RETURNs)
~ 53 minutes ~
07:41 shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/GCb
07:41 gribble The operation succeeded.
07:45 shinohai I kinda mangled that last sentence though.
~ 2 hours 27 minutes ~
10:12 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> hard enough that bush's idiots couldn't do it unless the thing beaconed. << /me remembers that lulz
10:14 BingoBoingo shinohai: looking at it, will patch
10:14 shinohai kk thanx BingoBoingo
10:15 BingoBoingo shinohai: correction, When plea out, you aren't a militia hero anymore
10:17 BingoBoingo shinohai: Imma have to chop this up a bit moar.
10:18 shinohai Feel free ... take it and run.
10:18 shinohai >.>
10:29 deedbot [Qntra] One Oregon Liberator Pleas To Impeding Federal Officers - http://qntra.net/2016/05/one-oregon-liberator-pleas-to-impeding-federal-officers/
10:32 BingoBoingo In other lulz http://qntra.net/2016/05/monsanto-embargoes-argentina-from-getting-dicamba-resistant-soybeans/#comment-59107
10:38 BingoBoingo Also https://www.reddit.com/r/farming/comments/4k1jyv/monsanto_embargoes_argentina_from_getting_dicamba/d3cfp01
10:39 shinohai ^ Of course they'd say that THEY LIKE GOV SUBSIDIES
10:40 mircea_popescu Framedragger answer't
10:40 mircea_popescu well of course they do ?
10:41 mircea_popescu whole country exists entirely as an exercise in subsidy.
10:41 mircea_popescu govt "borrows" in europe, pours the cash into subsidies, defaults ; borrows more.
10:41 mircea_popescu it's usa 202.
10:41 mircea_popescu 2020*
10:44 * BingoBoingo pretty happy with yesterday's string trimmer purchase. Just kinda regrets going cordless electric and not 2-cycle.
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10:45 mircea_popescu baiting detected
10:45 mircea_popescu but speaking of reddit, check out how famous asciilifeform is : https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4hcvvi/200_pgp_keys_and_counting_publicly_broken/
10:45 mircea_popescu i had no idea!
10:45 asciilifeform lel that's oooold
10:46 asciilifeform not even the one i posted, either
10:46 asciilifeform or hm
10:46 asciilifeform it is.
10:46 asciilifeform nm
10:46 mircea_popescu not that old
10:47 asciilifeform yeah this was the main thread
10:47 asciilifeform if you 'sort by new' you will see that it ends with 'warning!11111 they faked it all'
10:48 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469286 << BingoBoingo will be delighted to learn that when my father was a boy, his father bought a petrol-powered refrigerator.
10:48 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 14:44 BingoBoingo pretty happy with yesterday's string trimmer purchase. Just kinda regrets going cordless electric and not 2-cycle.
10:48 asciilifeform (possibly kerosene)
10:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'll have to disabuse you of the notion that "the content" ie "what it says" matters in that context.
10:49 BingoBoingo Aha, those are still around here. Popular for hunting camps and barns.
10:49 mircea_popescu strictly a matter of numbers, any 800 vote / 300 comment thread is exactly equal to any other.
10:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in the sense that one piece of rubbish is same as another ?
10:50 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I ended up going cordless because I wanted the battery.
10:50 mircea_popescu in the sense that you don't sit around to sniff the anthill, but merely care how tall it is.
10:50 asciilifeform hm
10:51 mircea_popescu to the ants themselves they're distinct.
10:54 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i will be passing through chicago soon, anything esp. interesting i ought to see ?
10:54 BingoBoingo The riverwalk.
10:54 BingoBoingo Preferably at night
10:54 shinohai r/btc "Our latest ad campaign got us 61 clicks, we're winning!!!!" https://i.imgur.com/i1kcOXt.png
10:54 mircea_popescu bejesus.
10:55 mircea_popescu for comparison, http://trilema.com/2016/files-from-the-war-on-the-web-today-pbnation/ yielded > 500 email responses. clicks not so countable.
10:55 Framedragger mircea_popescu: thanks, appreciate it. but damn does it depress me a bit, then
10:55 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: The river is the best place to throw up after drinking in the city
10:55 Framedragger "but guys this is gonna take fo-eva"
10:55 Framedragger "i just want a secure social site right nao"
10:55 Framedragger :(
10:55 mircea_popescu Framedragger this problem re-occurs here with some frequency. #trilema and tmsr generally are for adults.
10:56 Framedragger i'm gonna read more logs
10:56 mircea_popescu this means, a marathon, not a sprint ; and most things "people generally" count as a marathon here are still a sprint
10:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: more of an anabasis than marathon...
10:57 Framedragger ("right nao" was much in jest... but yes...)
10:57 mircea_popescu anabasis being the one true marathon. yes, good point, i shoulda said that.
10:57 Framedragger more logs it is
10:58 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Also consider seeing if you can get into Fermi lab
10:58 asciilifeform lel why would they let me in
10:59 asciilifeform i dun have my usg thrall face card no moar (and it was only good for dod ministries anyway)
11:09 BingoBoingo Oh then you could try to go see the site of that reator they built under the sportsball bleachers
11:11 BingoBoingo I think they just have a dumb statue there though.
11:11 asciilifeform yeah and if they let me into the white house i could play in the bowling alley.
11:11 asciilifeform what of it.
11:12 BingoBoingo Nah reactor was on University of Chicago campus, library where the stadium was
11:12 mircea_popescu you bowl ?!
11:12 BingoBoingo You could always just take the El to random southside neighborhoods or play "James Lafond Presents"
11:12 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: what's to do in random neighbourhoods ?
11:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sure
11:13 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Observe the fauna
11:13 BingoBoingo Chicago's kind of a shithole.
11:13 mircea_popescu what do you mean! it's a town so chic they put it in the name! chic-ago!
11:13 BingoBoingo Like New York if New York was aware of its small penis
11:13 mircea_popescu (anyone seen victor/victoria ?)
11:15 BingoBoingo Anyways best thing in CHicago isn't even in Chicago. Go down to Joilet and tour the old prison.
11:15 BingoBoingo They do guided tours
11:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally, random guy on reddit points out to a very lulzy attack indeed. consider : you boot up 1k VMs running the same os, and upon boot-up you sshgen. how many keys share primes even if they are properly generated ?
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11:16 mircea_popescu there's no way to check for this "multiplicity", it's essentially brainwallets-for-computers.
11:16 mircea_popescu we absoluely gotta get those ssh keys in there. jurov you actually working on it ?
11:17 jurov yes, going to prep the csv for download
11:17 mircea_popescu win.
11:18 mircea_popescu Moduli Waiting for Test: 20 << this is like... permanently. pretty incredible, so "the public" puts in keys at about the rate of 1 every 3 minutes for a month now ?
11:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: oh last night i cracked this enigma
11:19 asciilifeform take a careful look at the modulus count
11:19 asciilifeform it moves +5-6 a day
11:20 mircea_popescu right. i was just looking, 2 days ago it was 2151840
11:20 asciilifeform turns out folks are pushing the 'reload' button
11:20 mircea_popescu now it's 53
11:20 asciilifeform i'ma remove it today.
11:20 mircea_popescu oh.
11:20 asciilifeform it is literally worse than useless.
11:20 mircea_popescu nah, leave it, what's it cost you.
11:20 asciilifeform well it is entirely pointless
11:20 mircea_popescu so ?
11:20 mircea_popescu giving the web pointless buttons is what the web is all about.
11:20 asciilifeform yeah but it creates this strange picture of '19 moduli waiting...' eternally
11:21 mircea_popescu not putting more in deliberately is one thing ; but actually taking time to remove them... forget it, do it sometime when you do stuff with the site.
11:21 mircea_popescu i thought you hated interruptions.
11:21 mircea_popescu well now we know what it is, and otherwise, who cares.
11:21 asciilifeform next revision, i'ma pull it, it is silly
11:22 mircea_popescu logically.
11:23 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469346 << more interesting if you pin the time-of-day down.
11:23 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 15:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, random guy on reddit points out to a very lulzy attack indeed. consider : you boot up 1k VMs running the same os, and upon boot-up you sshgen. how many keys share primes even if they are properly generated ?
11:24 mircea_popescu http://taint.org/2008/05/13/153959a.html << this is actually pretty fucking lulzy history.
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11:24 asciilifeform (even a rubbish rng can masquerade as a usable one until you interate through the epochal times)
11:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but even as a very low effort thing you know, "everyone's on aws". and they all use the same fashionable shitstack. and there's... millions of them.
11:24 mircea_popescu this is like the anti-vaccine. not immunity through the herd, but insecurity through belonging to a herd.
11:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: noshit.jpg
11:25 mircea_popescu a process that'd have been perfectly safe on its own becomes deeply insecure when part of "the community".
11:25 mircea_popescu kinda how cannibalism actually works.
11:25 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469373 << this was hyped worldwide, but for some reason when it turned out that ~3 years of freebsd, ending some time last year, had NO ENTROPY in rng, it was ~nowhere.
11:25 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 15:24 mircea_popescu: http://taint.org/2008/05/13/153959a.html << this is actually pretty fucking lulzy history.
11:26 mircea_popescu lol
11:31 mircea_popescu lmao. i dunno why they have a page about how php sucks, and nothing about javascript. apparently you can't EVEN DO MATH in js (9007199254740993/28059810762433 === 321 is false).
11:31 mircea_popescu so it has alll the === lulz, but also... nonfunctioning arithmetic.
11:32 asciilifeform no ints, even.
11:32 asciilifeform (~nobody believes this when first told)
11:32 mircea_popescu well that's why nonfunctioning arithmetic.
11:33 asciilifeform famously described by... guess who, https://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/10/every-day-i-learn-something-new-and-stupid
11:33 mircea_popescu anyway Framedragger : just THAT fucks up permanently the notion of "crypto in javascript".
11:33 mircea_popescu it's ridiculous beyond belief, all crypto works with ints.
11:33 mircea_popescu it's field fucking arithmetic, not omfg engineering slide rule
11:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall the pgp in js demo ?
11:34 mircea_popescu vaguely ya
11:35 asciilifeform it had a massive, fuck-ugly kludge of int lib
11:35 mircea_popescu myeah.
11:35 asciilifeform to work around all of this
11:35 mircea_popescu it's just inhuman, this.
11:35 Framedragger "apparently you can't EVEN DO MATH in js" << yes yes YES :/ i knowz... that's why people want a web crypto api (crypto itself implemented in browser).. but the answer to your snarky follow-up "that just adds salt to the wound" is yes.. it's doomed
11:36 Framedragger goddamn language was designed in under two weeks
11:36 mircea_popescu Framedragger the ~only way you're going to end up with a web crypto api in browser is if you/someone builds the social media app discussed and then adds a html parser to it.
11:36 Framedragger and accidentally won the netscape wars. or whatever
11:36 mircea_popescu and make no mistake, i said it and i'll say it again : this is one of those moments.
11:36 mircea_popescu a properly made, functioning this will turn the "browser" period over, entirely and without respite. they'll become what the bbs are.
11:36 mircea_popescu all of them. it's a world ender.
11:42 Framedragger i hear you. i'm just thinking in more mundane/practical terms, "can i build X without waiting for the everything i'd need for X to also be rewritten"
11:42 Framedragger was thinking of simple html parser, too
11:42 Framedragger inside the thing
11:44 Framedragger i mean let's say one wouldn't depend on gnupg or anything like that. fine. use RSA. but with the (admirable) level of scrutiny employed herein, i'd be wary of even suggesting a single implementation of RSA which would not be shitty. i mean, there is libressl...
11:45 Framedragger libressl uses comic sans to deter web people and dummy hipsters. that in itself adds +10 in my book
11:45 Framedragger (half-kidding)
11:46 mircea_popescu heh.
11:46 mircea_popescu libs will be reviewed here ; post them.
11:46 mircea_popescu also, you looked into V any yet ?
11:47 Framedragger no but i've heard of it in logs. some approach to patching and (presumably) general version control? or more than that, even?
11:47 * Framedragger looks for reasons to hate git in logs. (spoiler, i don't hate git.. at least not yet)
11:51 danielpbarron git is what, social media masquerading as some sort of programming thing, not unlike how wikipedia is social media masquerading as an encyclopedia
11:52 mircea_popescu that's gihub
11:52 mircea_popescu git is linus' thing.
11:53 Framedragger every time git is confused for github, a kitten dies
11:53 mircea_popescu Framedragger read up on v, it's worth the read. more generally, you are ideologically naive, for which reason you're perhaps missing things. for instance, when i say "add a html parser" i do not mean "introduce support for THEIR definitioon of html". rather, i mean "create our own html, and by its presence passively force them to adapt or die".
11:53 Framedragger aha
11:53 Framedragger ok
11:53 mircea_popescu Framedragger actually, the process of creating github and then confusing git for github, aka embrace and extinguish / "rms-ing" is also amply discussed in teh logs :)
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11:54 mircea_popescu anywya, once mod6 gets that T thing going we can actually create tickets for all this, which'll make the task less insane.
11:54 mircea_popescu there's at least a dozen disparate, independently useful items that go into a gossipd.
11:54 Framedragger k, i see the.. angle. i suppose you belief in them having to adapt or die comes from most of your endeavours of the kind succeeding? which - don't get me wrong - is very admirable - but, like, it requires napoleonic levels of confidence. not that it's bad in and of itself
11:55 Framedragger such new world order
11:55 Framedragger nice
11:55 mircea_popescu there's no argument to be had with functionality. not all the talk in the world ; nor all the money nor anything else can stand in front of something that functions.
11:55 mircea_popescu as long as your thing functions, that's that.
11:56 mircea_popescu to put this in context, perhaps http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ is the best read.
11:57 Framedragger hm. i guess your notion of "adoption" is not like many others. i.e., it's not a matter of "whether majority of animals use it", but rather "whether majority of intelligent animals use it", or somesuch. because folks are also super lazy about switching from a broken thing to a more functional and better thing. case in point: much of enterprise software. (not that there may not be good gems there)
11:57 Framedragger ok
11:57 mircea_popescu but in short : it's not that ~my~ endeavours succeeding ; there's no personal flair involved here, nor any magic. it's that all the endeavours of a certain type will succeed.
11:58 Framedragger i've read quite a few articles but it's still, like, such a small amount
11:58 Framedragger right
11:58 Framedragger yeah i see
11:58 mircea_popescu and as to the other thing : numbers per se are meaningless. if there's a million truck drivers in the world, and 999`990 use a truck that does 10 mpg and i have 10 people using a truck that does 12 mpg, guess who'll be selling and who'll be buying trucking companies in the not so distant future.
11:59 mircea_popescu sure, some are hobbists, some may get (for some time, while that lasts) subsidies.
11:59 mircea_popescu but that's all temporary and a bandaid for a chainsaw wound. in the end, you don't see many oxcarts carrying freight today.
12:00 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> anywya, once mod6 gets that T thing going we can actually create tickets for all this, which'll make the task less insane. << making daily progress!
12:00 mircea_popescu love you.
12:00 mod6 <3
12:00 Framedragger (heheh in the beginning of that article are you basically quick-tutorialing people about the analytic/synthetic distinction (in a way)? i mean it's about the (possible existence of) truth-conditions of propositions with no reference, but it has this vibe to it)
12:00 mircea_popescu more or less.
12:01 mircea_popescu trilema is created as a "general purpose for literate people", so it contains lots of mini-versions of otherwise more seriously studied topics.
12:05 Framedragger yeah fair enough, regarding numbers, of course that makes sense. but social networks have this nagging thing of critical mass, sometimes. i know this is a naive viewpoint, but with e.g. networks which are for meets-and-greets, you know, location-based circles whatnot, it does require some amount of people for there to be more people. then again, maybe there are more smart folk around than i presume. though that's a dangerous assumption i
12:07 Framedragger but i probably overestimate the powa of the folk.
12:07 mircea_popescu i don't credit this "network effect" criticality thing. yes, people came up with that particular rebranding of panglossism to sell inept investors on why they should throw money away. it worked. that the sale pitch worked does not make the theory true.
12:07 Framedragger sure
12:07 mircea_popescu in historical terms, "all good things come to the port city", yes. until the port gets a sand bar.
12:07 mircea_popescu then they don't. whoopdedoo.
12:10 mircea_popescu the experience of myspace should be informative in this sense. "network effect" is valuable for as long as the median view is that it's cool people there ; once that goes away, all turner's billions can't fix the suddenly un-critical network effect.
12:10 Framedragger re. github, just fyi github is less.. hegemonic these days. gitlab is doing well, and that one's a bit less shit etc. this may sound like a partial solution to a fundamental problem, sure, but mh i dunno.
12:11 mircea_popescu also fyi, we're preparing to rape their ssh keys.
12:11 Framedragger whose? githubs? everyones?
12:11 Framedragger kewl
12:11 Framedragger oh i have some of those there.. but they're not important keys anyway. hey that sounds like a nice project
12:12 mircea_popescu well since phuctor has a bunch of rsa work already done ; converting github rsa keys to a usable format and checking them by the same process isn't that tall a step.
12:12 Framedragger ahhh hence the conversion effort
12:13 mircea_popescu right.
12:13 Framedragger noice.
12:13 mircea_popescu see above in log why i'm currently expecting to see some horrors.
12:14 mircea_popescu and now a linkdump for alf's colleciton : http://www.examiner.com/article/most-decorated-us-marine-general-purpose-of-all-us-wars-is-billions-for-insiders-profits http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/04/resolving-developed-nations-obvious-complicity-lie-started-us-war-crimes.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/03/2014-gallup-international-poll-us-1-threat-world-peace.html
12:25 asciilifeform lel
12:25 asciilifeform 1st link 404s
12:26 mircea_popescu aww!
12:26 asciilifeform the rest - snore.
12:27 mircea_popescu https://panatmansam.tumblr.com/post/97152108836/most-decorated-us-marine-general-purpose-of-all << survives in snippets on the web.
12:27 mircea_popescu apparently he got phuctored :D
12:28 asciilifeform ah that butler
12:28 mircea_popescu yeah.
12:29 asciilifeform the one vs the anti-fdr coup
12:29 mircea_popescu aha.
12:29 asciilifeform http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html << complete text. enjoy.
12:30 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3_EXqJ8f-0 << even period video
12:31 asciilifeform 'Airplane and engine manufacturers felt they, too, should get their just profits out of this war. Why not? Everybody else was getting theirs. So $1,000,000,000 -- count them if you live long enough -- was spent by Uncle Sam in building airplane engines that never left the ground! Not one plane, or motor, out of the billion dollars worth ordered, ever got into a battle in France. Just the same the manufacturers made their little profi
12:31 asciilifeform t of 30, 100, or perhaps 300 per cent.' << in case anyone thought this kind of thing were new.
12:32 mircea_popescu hey, gotta keep people interested.
12:36 shinohai How to get more rubble for your ruble?
12:38 asciilifeform shinohai: call saharov
12:39 Framedragger asciilifeform do you have an opinion on libressl? sorry if i'm pestering ya
12:40 Framedragger i mean it's a largish codebase, but in terms of general approach / effort. borne out of anger towards openssl, all that
12:40 Framedragger developed by openbsd folks
12:40 asciilifeform Framedragger: ~same crock of shit as openssl.
12:40 asciilifeform for same exact reasons.
12:40 asciilifeform (massive, unreadable c turd, with plenty of verbatim common with openssl)
12:41 Framedragger hmm. i suppose it's massive, yeah
12:41 mircea_popescu they've not really had time to do much at any rate ; how long ago did they split, a year ?
12:41 Framedragger two years, i think
12:42 mircea_popescu it's one of those cases where the team may be better than the codebase ; though honestly, the size of the matzah ball hanging on their head means that they'll prolly get crushed if haven't already
12:42 Framedragger they started by just choosing to prune certain features off of the beast , thereby removing some particularly bad parts
12:42 Framedragger could be a bit quoxotian
12:42 mircea_popescu (i've not much followed libressl, chiefly because anyone purporting to do crypto anything that's not in my wot is an outright fraud)
12:42 Framedragger *quixotian
12:42 Framedragger right, right
12:43 mircea_popescu kinda why "make a new html" comes in. there's really no reason to support the bullshit. correct move would have been to make a new ssh.
12:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sorta what 'g' aims to be
12:44 asciilifeform (replace ssh)
12:44 mircea_popescu right
12:44 mircea_popescu ideally, one that doesn't support utf. (not necessarily utf per se - just an instantiation of the principle that features may be supported only if inexpensive enough.)
12:45 Framedragger have you folks considered making a god damn wiki of all these funky letters, or is that too socialist of an effort? :)
12:45 mircea_popescu there is a wiki, would benefit from more maintainer effort.
12:45 * Framedragger considers
12:45 mircea_popescu the idea in my head has always been that as intelligent people try to catch up, they'll use the wiki as their scratchpad
12:46 mircea_popescu people who've been following along usually can't summon the interest, having other flags that call them stronger.
12:47 Framedragger is this the wiki? http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/
12:47 mircea_popescu mmm, i think that's an old instance. a sec.
12:47 Framedragger what with all the move to #trilema, eh
12:48 mircea_popescu right. wiki.deedbot.org was it ? shinohai ?
12:48 mircea_popescu they've made something in lisp iirc.
12:48 Framedragger oh, that's nice
12:48 mircea_popescu yeah.
12:49 mircea_popescu http://wiki.deedbot.org/Best%20of%20MPOE-PR lmao
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12:50 mircea_popescu hey trinque why does it answer so slowly ? is the lisp machine getting restarted on each call or somesuch ?
12:50 asciilifeform dead?
12:50 mircea_popescu nah it just takes its sweet time.
12:52 shinohai Yeah wiki.deedbot.org
12:52 shinohai 99% of old articles there
12:52 ben_vulpes in other rng news http://i.imgur.com/TxFLW5F.jpg
12:52 trinque nah, that box is getting pushed into swap by trb
12:52 trinque need to spin up a separate box for the node
12:53 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: wats this
12:53 ben_vulpes noise, of course
12:53 trinque coffee? shits? coffee shits?
12:53 shinohai I think I just got cursed at in hindi
12:54 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: lemonade from the morning tragedy
12:54 mircea_popescu ah.
12:54 mircea_popescu how much ram trinque ?
12:55 trinque 2gb, piddly
12:55 mircea_popescu ah yeah. i think we'll need to make a "min 4gb ram for new boxes" tmsr standard ; so people can run general purpose + trb on them
12:56 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469514 <<< toldja I couldn't forget that one, spent half the morning reading turdtalk again as I was editing.
12:56 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 16:49 mircea_popescu: http://wiki.deedbot.org/Best%20of%20MPOE-PR lmao
12:57 mircea_popescu lol. pretty good.
12:57 mircea_popescu "who could have predicted neobee" etc.
12:57 * shinohai bows to hanbot
12:58 mircea_popescu speaking of stains, http://66.media.tumblr.com/47c0dcf919403ee5a30ab163d7edebb3/tumblr_n2sq2xSjlB1rzzxego1_1280.jpg
13:11 Framedragger noob question but by god am i confused. is deedbot's WoT a different WoT from that which is serviced by gribble?
13:12 mircea_popescu yes, they diverged at some point early 2015.
13:12 mircea_popescu all matter prior is found in both ; all matter after is found in one or another.
13:13 mircea_popescu there was some discussion with nanotube re his rewriting gribble to act properly (ie, sessionless) and interchange data, but it never came to naught. i dun think gribble is still being much maintained. no idea really.
13:13 Framedragger oh ok. thanks.
13:14 mircea_popescu (the split occured because he was in [unannounced] vacation while gribble went down ; after not being reacheable for a few days it looked like we're under attack and a new bot was made ; and properly this time. then nanotube came back, explained he was taking a vacation [all this being right around xmas] and well... no hard feelings, but also no readily available cure.)
13:14 Framedragger but e.g. i auth with gribble and apparently that's enough. deedbot sees this. i guess that's fine?
13:15 Framedragger i see
13:15 mircea_popescu there's no session involved. what's deedbot to see ?
13:15 mircea_popescu if you're unvoiced it can voice you, for a token. that's all it does.
13:15 Framedragger ahhhh
13:15 Framedragger gotcha
13:15 Framedragger it's truly sessionless. no need. nice
13:15 mircea_popescu if you try to $rate someone it'll give you another token, every time
13:16 Framedragger yeah that does make alota sense
13:16 mircea_popescu this protects from session hijacking, which is a major concern, especially since freenode's rape-and-gag adventure last year.
13:16 Framedragger shit i missed lots of interesting drama, it seems :D
13:16 mircea_popescu you know, they announced a major bug which looked just like a nsa plant ; promised a full investigation to soon follow ; haven't spoken a word since.
13:17 mircea_popescu it's reasonable to deem they're under a gag order and actively diddled.
13:17 Framedragger :(
13:17 Framedragger i guess this shouldn't be totally surprising
13:17 mircea_popescu i guess not.
13:18 Framedragger i suppose there's no true need, but have you considered moving to a new/different irc network? or can that wait till gossipd saves the internet?
13:18 mircea_popescu what's the cost of the move buy me ?
13:19 Framedragger well, say, zero, really. possible time cost for bot maintainers, tho
13:19 mircea_popescu so then consider it considered.
13:19 Framedragger oh
13:19 Framedragger misinterpreted question. "what does it buy". yeah, the nice feeling inside, so, zero, i suppose
13:20 mircea_popescu there's nothing substantially wrong with freenode. they're a merchant of faeces infested water, as good as any other merchant of "water" in marakesh.
13:21 mircea_popescu the solution is to behead the caliph and put the town under proper administration, not to shop around for "water" merchants. wtf are they going to sell you, they all draw from the same all-purpose pond.
13:21 Framedragger (incidentally, fuck marrakech. the whole country's full of tourists, but marrakech doubly so. fes is where it's at!!1)
13:21 Framedragger yeah
13:22 mircea_popescu ikr?
13:22 mircea_popescu where' you from anyway ?
13:22 Framedragger lithuania, of all the places.
13:23 mircea_popescu what's it like ?
13:24 Framedragger hm
13:24 Framedragger lots of nice booty (for real though, not a joke)
13:24 Framedragger high cost of living, cf. other european countries, whereas avg wage is maybe just over 500eur / mo? hence whole country is grumpy
13:24 mircea_popescu yeah, i know, i like lithuanian chix.
13:25 Framedragger "ikr"
13:25 mircea_popescu do you have a bdsm club ?
13:25 Framedragger no. *i should*
13:25 mircea_popescu lol not you personally ; you teh people.
13:26 Framedragger yes. unless you mean "the club" (not venue), then i'm not sure, but there are people's circles which seem to function well, yes. i've been out of the country for some time and am generally not in loop
13:27 Framedragger there certainly exist chix who do bdsm though, not that it could be otherwise
13:28 Framedragger i don't know what to think of that country. i mean, it's shit, but this is sorta a priori
13:28 mircea_popescu ah
13:28 mircea_popescu ok, so where' you from in the sense of, where you at, then.
13:29 Framedragger it's too cold, folks don't talk much in streets, though you can bump into an old guy who invites you to chess for a beer (and by god he needs that beer), he does well, you're in a very cheap shitty bar and you realize it's now closed and the bar is serving vodka to the regulars who're now around you, sometimes succeeding in discussing something interesting
13:30 Framedragger i'm too young to hold a decent convo, seemingly. owell. glasgow, uk. it's alright. you'll make fun of uk tho, and that's only fair. i'll move at some point
13:30 mircea_popescu you'd love argentina then. ALL they do is stop and chat in the streets ; half hour at a time, people who don't know each other.
13:30 mircea_popescu of course, it's entirely meaningless ; argentines never act on what they or anyone else says.
13:31 Framedragger so i heard! and tbh i would indeed like that, at least for a time!
13:31 mircea_popescu i thought glasgow was in scotland
13:31 Framedragger hehe
13:31 mircea_popescu i only make fun of the london people. the scots are a sort of lithuania :D
13:31 Framedragger it is, it is. so what you're saying is that scotland is not part of the uk. if only
13:31 Framedragger yeah they are!
13:31 mircea_popescu weren't they nigh on separated last time ?
13:31 Framedragger (lots of the latter here, incidnetally)
13:31 Framedragger aha
13:32 mircea_popescu the uk nearly lost it's only submarine base ; where the only nuclear-bbc-radio-listener is based.
13:32 Framedragger just about. glasgow voted "yes" to separation, obviously
13:32 Framedragger ah yes that's what i saw in logs. lols
13:32 Framedragger oh yeah, the "bbc = world goes on thing" l0l
13:32 mircea_popescu lol.
13:33 mircea_popescu anyway - yeah i suppose locals are fugly, but then again glasgow gets a lot of foreign students/tourists.
13:33 Framedragger yeah there are friendly people here, with brains etc. weather is shit obvs., and i admit it affects me. hence travels to morocco and suchlike
13:33 * mircea_popescu lived in edinburgh briefly.
13:33 Framedragger most of local gals are fucking ugly as fuck, yes indeed
13:33 mircea_popescu well, wolverhampton. but anyway.
13:33 Framedragger ah i see!
13:34 mircea_popescu warwick castle was epic, but finding something you'd stick your penis into was ~impossible. i was stuck with imports the whole time.
13:35 Framedragger yeah glasgow is a student population to a degree, quite so, and that is indeed nice
13:35 Framedragger can only imagine
13:37 Framedragger it's nice to hear that argentina is a livable place, then. i enjoyed the pix on trilema fwiw
13:38 Framedragger didn't you say something to the tune of "i'd like to die here" :)
13:38 mircea_popescu did i ?
13:39 Framedragger could be mistaken. hmm
13:39 Framedragger on buenos aires: http://trilema.com/2014/manufactured-insecurity-and-the-issue-of-control/
13:39 Framedragger oh that was before you moved
13:40 mircea_popescu no, but it was early.
13:40 mircea_popescu the place is great for the first months. then the idiocy of the population starts to wear you down.
13:41 mircea_popescu what's the idiot village called in lithuanian folklore ?
13:42 Framedragger can't think of a specific word - there's a notion "idiots' ship" - durnių laivas - and also: the whole word "village" (kaimas) has very clear connotations of idiocy, in and of itself, and is used thusly sometimes
13:42 Framedragger or are you referring to some actual place?
13:43 mircea_popescu alrighty, so it's basically a durnish laivas that thinks itself the capital [of the world].
13:43 mircea_popescu they get tiresome.
13:43 Framedragger parliament, say, is often referred to by durnių laivas, as well as the whole country, its populace, etc; same with "kaimas" being used interchangeably with populace
13:43 Framedragger ahh, i see
13:43 mircea_popescu yeah, but at least your idiots are aware of it.
13:43 Framedragger to a masturbatory degree
13:43 mircea_popescu these schmucks think they're all part of the cast of friends.
13:43 asciilifeform iirc ships of fools were already common parlance even prior to sebastian brandt's 1400s mega-b0000k
13:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well they did send children on a crusade once...
13:44 Framedragger hahah. oh i *bet* that wears you off after a while!
13:44 asciilifeform 'Das Narrenschiff'
13:47 jurov asciilifeform: github rsa keys: http://www.explo.yt/phathub-201506.csv.xz
↖ ↖
13:48 mircea_popescu win!
13:48 asciilifeform neato
13:48 mircea_popescu how many ?
13:48 jurov 0080bf77f0541827bc90d62de448cbc6780ae5a8f9450405eb00db4dafe708836018b832c40bbc30128ab2b8c5c4a9c9d2e1a34ebd8efdf8d3ee178bd94d8316 phathub.csv
13:48 jurov 5662db8716ddfa945e0b45103517eb681b32f7c2615af731ae0644737e92389122f8740e6f86201e61b96513bd2ace3301dd288c88f3e93bae46dd7594327dac phathub-201506.csv.xz
13:48 jurov 6.9mil
13:48 mircea_popescu epic.
13:48 mircea_popescu phuctor eats well today!
13:48 asciilifeform wai these are converted already ?
13:48 Framedragger jurov: nice.
13:48 jurov it's CSV e,N, comment
↖ ↖
13:48 mircea_popescu well yes ?
13:49 mircea_popescu tmsr rsa format.
13:49 mircea_popescu and it is at this juncture we discover alf doesn't actually have that implemented yet :D
13:49 asciilifeform not the least.
13:49 asciilifeform phuctor is hard-built in 1,01 ways around pgp format.
13:50 mircea_popescu loller.
13:50 mircea_popescu well... i guess you make a tmsr - to - rfc 448866221133massachussetts convertor.
13:50 jurov and above file would be maybe 50GB instead of 2
13:53 jurov asciilifeform: i can convert if you insist
13:53 mircea_popescu so there were three : get the github keys - jurov did it ; get the ssh server/router spidering going, and convert. iirc nobody was doing this ; get pgp keys out of the gwen / sr dump. punkman was hm where is he.
13:53 mircea_popescu ;;later punkman yo
13:53 gribble Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "punkman" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
13:53 mircea_popescu ;;later tell punkman yo
13:53 gribble The operation succeeded.
13:53 mircea_popescu jurov can you publish the convertor you used somewhere for later reference ? like your blog or w/e ?
13:53 mircea_popescu also, anyone want to run a ssh server key spider ?
↖
13:54 BingoBoingo lol https://imgur.com/a/NXWAt
13:54 mircea_popescu Framedragger ?
13:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform 1001 ways ? at some point it keeps numbers in a db or no ?
13:55 jurov yes, convertor. when i find out why it does barfalicious output
13:56 mircea_popescu hm
13:57 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo jesus wtf is wrong with these imbeciles.
13:57 BingoBoingo New 'Murica
13:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yes. but when a key is phuctored, it expects to find the fields associated with a pgp key in the requisite db table.
13:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and if it finds only the comment field and the rest null it dies ?
14:00 asciilifeform this is not even a thing.
14:00 asciilifeform as per the structure of the db
14:00 mircea_popescu wtf is in that key, a date, an email, a name and a comment
14:00 asciilifeform try to understand how special cases make complexity of a proggy explode.
↖
14:00 asciilifeform no it is also a pgp key turd, that is re-parsable to obtain all of these
14:00 mircea_popescu so far i'm trying to understand what specifically the db is like.
14:00 asciilifeform and downloadable, etc
14:01 asciilifeform for instance, db is currently indexable ONLY 2 ways:
14:01 asciilifeform 1) pgp fp (64bit)
14:01 asciilifeform 2) hash of moduli AS THEY APPEAR IN PGP FORMAT
14:01 mircea_popescu ah right, and fp isn't even a function of modulus.
14:01 asciilifeform (2 is what you see in phuctor urls)
14:02 asciilifeform the thing is pretty solidly congealed around pgp.
14:02 mircea_popescu that may be ; but the problem here is that politically, we do not wish to recognize rsa is owned by pgp.
14:02 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
14:02 mircea_popescu so this will have to be catered to.
14:02 mircea_popescu principally in the form of "keys aren't pgp format, but tmsr format, of which ssh, pgp and others are idiotic restatements"
14:02 asciilifeform prolly i am doomed to rewrite whole thing again...
14:03 mircea_popescu well, sounds like about half.
14:03 mircea_popescu but hey, on the upside you;ll be able to take the button out.
14:03 Framedragger "also, anyone want to run a ssh server key spider ?" << heh, k, i'm up for this, might as well be useful while i brood
↖
14:04 mircea_popescu Framedragger the task is 1) create a spider that connects to all servers/routers/anything that takes a ssh connection, and asks for key. there's an example given in the logs coupla weeks ago that prolly can be taken verbatim and improved as needed.
14:04 Framedragger i suppose i should search logs for previous discussions? unless anyone wants to give a more particular summary? spider as many keys from as many hosts running ssh as possible?
14:04 jurov https://www.shodan.io/search?query=ssh there's also this, but access to raw data is prolly paid
14:04 mircea_popescu 2) process the results on some sort of periodicity (daily ?) with jurov's soon to be published convertor
14:04 mircea_popescu 3) publish the results somewhere so alf can scarf them
14:05 Framedragger the convertor converts keys into some kind of tmsr rsa format, then?
14:05 jurov no, pgp rfc4880 format
14:05 Framedragger oh ok
14:05 Framedragger that's nice
14:06 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469647
14:06 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 17:48 jurov: it's CSV e,N, comment
14:06 Framedragger jurov so the convertor does the whole "create x.509 certificate" thing etc? nice nice
14:06 Framedragger ah
14:06 mircea_popescu jurov wait, what ?
14:06 jurov what certificate?
14:06 jurov just PGP public key
14:07 Framedragger oh maybe rfc4880 in itself does not include a whole certificate bloat thing. ok
14:07 Framedragger openpgp is bulky but maybe not that bulky
14:07 jurov certificate is usually a public key + self+signature
14:07 Framedragger anyway. ssh server key spider. *considers setup*
14:08 jurov but we can't have selfsigs, only the key
14:08 Framedragger my mistake
14:08 mircea_popescu ok im well confused. so jurov : you have a thing that takes ssh keys, spits them out as e,N,comment lines in a csv. that right ?
14:08 jurov yes. and also (so far) faulty implemention of CSV -> PGP pubkey
14:08 mircea_popescu ah. and you were calling this later "convertor" ? whereas i was calling the former.
14:09 mircea_popescu Framedragger see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-02#1461422 and around there.
14:09 a111 Logged on 2016-05-02 19:11 fromphuctor__: ssh-keyscan provide digits
14:09 Framedragger ok
14:09 jurov okay. the ssh format is blessedly simple, not much to convert
14:13 Framedragger mircea_popescu: that was useful. so btw this fromphuctor__, i take it he hasn't much reappeared. was good idea, his
14:13 mircea_popescu honestly asciilifeform i'd much rather if phuctor held a table consisting of e,N,comment,pgp_crud1,pgp_crud2,etc. should be indexed by hash of first three fields. should not depend on the trailing fields existing
14:14 mircea_popescu Framedragger many thousands read teh logs ; not everyone speaks, or directly. the republic shades a much larger area than meets teh eye. nothing wrong with that either.
14:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the most complicated piece is the www crud
14:14 mircea_popescu myeah.
14:15 asciilifeform it is already replete with rat's nest of case logic crud
14:15 mircea_popescu myeah. will take purging. sorry for your loss.
14:15 asciilifeform not purging, but further entumouring, there isn't a way to do it cleanly
14:15 Framedragger mircea_popescu: of course. :) btw can i assume that ecdsa keys are not of interest? only rsa?
14:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform why so ?
↖
14:15 Framedragger ssh-keyscan nicely gives all keys presented by server, usually includes ecdsa
14:15 mircea_popescu Framedragger you understand how ecc works yes ?
14:16 Framedragger i think so, yes
14:16 mircea_popescu then what's the point of factoring it ?
14:16 Framedragger well, not factoring it of course, but just hoarding it for laters
14:16 Framedragger i dunno you guys plans for future
14:16 mircea_popescu that;s a call up to you as a putative eventual lord of teh republic neh ?
14:17 Framedragger but kk, it's clear it's not relevant to current effort as current effort is about factorization of rsa keys
14:17 Framedragger ..fair
14:19 Framedragger so, like, presumably, one would want keys of ssh servers that are behind *all* routable public ipv4 addresses?
14:21 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469732 << because i am not a wwwtronicist. the thing does not intelligently generate the web crapolade from the db in any way, it manually and agonizingly 'if phuctored then display this-here colours' etc.
14:21 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 18:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why so ?
14:22 mircea_popescu Framedragger just make sure you add the ip to your comment.
14:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ah. so are we looking for a wwwtronicist at this spot ?
14:23 asciilifeform also, i presume, for a baker, so we can hand out phreee caeks?
14:23 mircea_popescu i dunno, you're pretty talented, or at least i liked your www output :D
14:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, ben_vulpes has been making noises about things ; for one. maybe mike_c is bored, who knows. till you ask you don't know.
14:24 * Framedragger is a non-bullshit wwwtronicist, depending on definition. are you folks looking for some clean www read-only interface to a db? sorry for much interjection
14:27 mircea_popescu Framedragger why just ipv4 ?
14:27 ben_vulpes what is a non-bullshit wwwtronicist?
14:27 mircea_popescu i read it to mean he doesn't use django.
14:27 ben_vulpes magical tank of wine with particles of shit that is still drinkable somehow?
14:27 ben_vulpes oh and php is non-bullshit i c
14:28 Framedragger someone who can do web development without considering nodejs, js, nosql, etc etc, just for some initial constraints? :D
14:28 * ben_vulpes is having a bad week
14:28 mircea_popescu what happened this week ? teething ?
14:28 Framedragger and visits http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ more often than should admit
14:28 trinque hunchentoot uber alles
14:29 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: teething isn't really my problem
14:29 Framedragger mircea_popescu: well. i guess the spider could could include a ipv6 address crawler to populate a ipv6 address list. but beyond that?
14:30 ben_vulpes inane wwwtronics, ofc
14:30 mircea_popescu Framedragger was mostly confirming your assumption. yes, if the motherfucker goes to indochina i want a nigger there hiding in a bowl of rice ready to suck its pubkey down.
14:30 ben_vulpes spilled the coffee, soaked the chinese shitscale
14:31 Framedragger looks at http://www.ipv6-spider.com/en/statistics "ipv6 only"
14:31 ben_vulpes Framedragger: that's more a baseline requirement
14:31 Framedragger mircea_popescu: nice, nice
14:31 ben_vulpes like not using windows
14:31 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes anyone ever told you you've got housewife problems ?
14:31 ben_vulpes or os x
14:31 Framedragger for sure
14:31 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: what are my housewife problems?
14:31 Framedragger 'initial constraints'
14:31 asciilifeform what's a housewife problem
14:31 Framedragger probably weeds out most
14:31 asciilifeform too many housewives ?
14:31 mircea_popescu "spilled coffee... soaked scale..."
14:31 asciilifeform too few..?
14:31 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: no /i/ spilled the coffe
14:31 ben_vulpes and /i/ soaked the scale
14:32 mircea_popescu "he won't call..."
14:32 ben_vulpes /i/ am having a bad week.
14:32 ben_vulpes she is childproofing and driving the kibbutz incubation project quite nicely thank you very much
14:33 asciilifeform waiwut
14:33 asciilifeform ben_vulpes in a kibbutz ?!
14:33 asciilifeform what did i miss
14:33 mircea_popescu wouldn't kibbutz incubation properly render as kibbutzation ?
14:34 ben_vulpes that'd tend to imply the marching of people to the kibbutz
14:34 ben_vulpes kibbutzcubation perhaps
14:34 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: not yet
14:34 ben_vulpes trees don't grow overnight
14:35 ben_vulpes but hey the girls are helping each other nurse already so the project moves forward
14:35 mircea_popescu speaking of midgets, http://aellagirl.tumblr.com/post/85106201636/my-first-photoset-im-reposting-for-posterity-and
14:36 mircea_popescu wait... what girls ?
14:36 mircea_popescu you're bigamarried nao ?
14:36 ben_vulpes nonono
14:37 ben_vulpes new chapter, new friends
14:37 asciilifeform no moar wwwtron warehouse with piss tanks ?
14:37 mircea_popescu so you've impregnated both the wife and the mistress and they're cooing in unison ?
14:38 mircea_popescu incidentally danielpbarron mind showing the i'll pay for tits thing to https://twitter.com/aella_girl thx
↖
14:38 * ben_vulpes rolls eyes
14:38 ben_vulpes friends, not colleagues, asciilifeform
14:38 ben_vulpes tanning tanks still reek as ever
14:38 mircea_popescu is it my fault you're cryptic ?!
14:38 ben_vulpes i learned it from you!
14:39 ben_vulpes looky
14:39 ben_vulpes i am possibly the youngest hipster /deciding/ to have children. this means that none of the other hipsters want to be friends any more, because what sane person with hobbies etc hangs out with married and children.
14:39 ben_vulpes ergo find new friends who are also doing the same.
14:39 mircea_popescu ah!
14:40 ben_vulpes davout even i think was older than i for his
14:40 mircea_popescu hey, it's the first day of the rest of your life
14:40 mircea_popescu if it makes you feel better, my parents were about your age when they were blessed with the wonder that is i.
14:41 ben_vulpes my foul mood has nothing to do with childrearing
14:41 ben_vulpes and everything to do with inane wwwtronics
14:43 mircea_popescu well yeah, but there;s nothing anyone can do there.
14:43 ben_vulpes http://django-forms.shithouse.tv/
14:45 Framedragger i like the /* yolo: */ in the source, where it specifies the font right there in the source, because fuck it
14:45 Framedragger by specifies i meant defines
14:45 ben_vulpes Framedragger: shithouse has a certain...aesthetic.
14:46 Framedragger those @-webkit-keyframes .... yeah i can see that :)
14:47 ben_vulpes familiarity breeds contempt or what was it
14:47 * mats pats ben_vulpes
14:49 mats it'll be ok
14:50 mats https://jamfnation.jamfsoftware.com/scripts.html << this is wut my personal workplace hell looks like
14:51 trinque everything in computing is shit, well-worn fact by now
14:51 mats one of my new duties is managing osx imaging. and i already wanna die.
14:51 trinque I'm over here trying to get sbcl's sb-bsd-socket to build on musl
14:51 trinque one cannot simply pick the best things available; why would they all already work together?
14:52 mats on the other hand, an interesting opportunity to understand xnu
14:52 mats lotsa cruft there.
14:53 shinohai o/ mats long time no see
14:53 mats haro
14:54 asciilifeform workplace hell my shiny metal arse.
14:54 asciilifeform i'm building ?????? for motherfucking microshit.
14:54 trinque l0l0l
14:54 asciilifeform not first time, either.
14:54 trinque hey man; it's the end of the world
14:54 trinque sling dope
14:55 asciilifeform but at least i dun have to SEE PEOPLE!11111111111111
14:55 asciilifeform i will build for nintendo.
14:55 asciilifeform so long as i dun have to people.
14:55 mats xpc seems like it has a lot of bugs
14:56 mats and the pile of varying ipc mechanisms in addition to raw mach ports is p interesting
14:57 mats who remembers 'Distributed Objects'? 'Distributed Notifications'?
15:00 mats whole thing is ripe for 0days, i expect, half a dozen incompatible ipc mechanisms loosely scattered across multiple layers
~ 49 minutes ~
15:49 mircea_popescu o hey, how goes mats ?
~ 19 minutes ~
16:08 hanbot mircea_popescu, https://www.quora.com/Who-will-win-the-Bitcoin-blocksize-war << check out top answer.
16:09 mircea_popescu awww look at that! i'm quora famous nao ?
16:10 hanbot Philippe Duperron, Blockchain Maximalist predicted classic failure back in February.
16:11 hanbot Where prediction = "whatever MP says".
16:11 mircea_popescu not bad, coupla months early huh.
16:13 hanbot see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBSD
16:14 hanbot Pity they don't have a bio article.
16:14 mircea_popescu lmao
16:18 shinohai ^ epik
16:19 hanbot Maybe you should pay their server bills so they don't have to "not advertise" their begging campaign every quarter.
16:20 hanbot Require WoT registrations to edit or something.
16:20 mircea_popescu nah, i'm not paying so jimbo wales can continue meeting his personal bills.
16:21 mircea_popescu it'd be interesting as a wikipedia-conversion-to-sanity project, but it'd be predicated on the project ditching all the undesirables barnacled to it. and seeing that the whole thing is mostly barnacle by mass, i dun see it happening.
16:30 BingoBoingo Kinda the Libressl problem. Thing needs cutting, but it also need oh so much cutting.
16:30 mircea_popescu the other thing is that wikipedia has ~no utility. in the parts that it outright copied actual encyclopedia is no better and no different from any random website out there that repackages other's content.
16:31 mircea_popescu in the parts where it actually does something, what it does is collect derpy dribbles on irrelevant topics. yeah, it's the first place to have a discussion of the nth episode of the mth reboot of some tired us franchise.
16:31 mircea_popescu ok...
16:31 asciilifeform there is such a thing as a corpse.
16:31 mircea_popescu there is.
16:32 asciilifeform when the only thing to cut is skull, for ashtray
16:33 mircea_popescu and what's worse, the "wiki" style is proven not to work. even something originally as promising as tvtropes has over the years decayed into this unfunny collection of tiresome goop.
↖
16:33 mircea_popescu if you have the curiosity to check it out, the parts of any artiocle that you like are 5yo+ ; and stuff added the current year's never up to par.
16:33 * asciilifeform noticed
16:34 mircea_popescu basically, it worked as an unpaid effort to digitize books that's meanwhile run out of both books to digitize and wide-eyed excitable noobs to do the digitizing.
16:34 BingoBoingo Related https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/digital_data.png
16:38 mircea_popescu hehe
16:38 mircea_popescu all these "passive gains" systems go the same way
16:41 asciilifeform all wotless soup goes the same way.
16:41 mircea_popescu that also ; though wikipedia does have a buggy, unspecified, half-baked wot implementation
16:41 asciilifeform at one point asciilifeform attempted to contribute to pediwikia, even. was quickly cured of the notion that this was a worthwhile use of time.
16:42 asciilifeform yeah they have
16:42 asciilifeform and guess who it is built around.
16:42 mircea_popescu the problem is they didn't have intelligent people at the top. this generally haunts.
16:44 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
16:59 BingoBoingo $up dignork
16:59 deedbot dignork voiced for 30 minutes.
17:01 dignork Thanks BingoBoingo glad to see you guys, but I'm just lurking after a long time out, haven't read the logs yet.
17:02 danielpbarron http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469801 << done https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/733760344255045634
17:02 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 18:38 mircea_popescu: incidentally danielpbarron mind showing the i'll pay for tits thing to https://twitter.com/aella_girl thx
17:02 BingoBoingo You're welcome. Just nice to see an oldtimer come back around.
17:06 mircea_popescu ty danielpbarron
17:06 mircea_popescu and in other news, damn soup is a wonderful invention.
17:06 mircea_popescu take my advice boys and girls : have soup at least 4-5 times a week.
17:08 shinohai https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDao/comments/4k6kbm/dao_20_as_the_first_proposal_to_get_funding/ Let's build version 2.0 of a buggy moneypit! :D
17:15 BingoBoingo Health is nao "respectability politics" https://imgur.com/a/yT1gk#4oDw83O
17:18 asciilifeform oh this is lethally lulzy,
17:19 asciilifeform 'Gavin will "win" because most people won't even realize there was a debate, let alone a "war". Gavin has the network alert key, so when he says "please upgrade to avoid being left on a fork", most people will upgrade. Hard to get away from that. Mircea Popescu isn't likely to persuade anyone that he's right because in all of the three blog posts on this subject I found, nowhere does he bother to explain why he's opposed to a larger
17:19 asciilifeform block size, instead committing the space to expressing his dislike for Gavin, the Bitcoin foundation...'
17:19 asciilifeform ^ from the 'quora' thing.
17:19 asciilifeform (linked earlier)
17:20 shinohai Gavin has been rather quite for a few days.
17:20 shinohai *quiet
17:21 asciilifeform have patience, they're making a new one
17:21 asciilifeform old one was long in the tooth.
17:25 trinque must be disheartening; they put so much work into the last one's sweet steampunk goggles and MIT stamp of chief scientism
17:25 trinque they should get that Tor chick this time
17:25 trinque she looks like she wants to be a dystopian manga character
17:25 asciilifeform related, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-20#1348086
17:25 a111 Logged on 2015-12-20 00:13 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1348050 << you know what's great? rat poison STILL WORKS even if you don't explain to the rats exactly ~how~ !
17:29 asciilifeform dignork: welcome back
17:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that was state of the art in 2015 tho, check teh dates.
17:43 asciilifeform tru
17:47 asciilifeform the new, 'desperate timez' measures will be thrust at the minerz.
17:50 mircea_popescu nah, that was early 2016 tech. it backfired something massive.
17:53 asciilifeform i dun think they've tried outright bribery yet
17:53 asciilifeform nor arson
17:55 kakobrekla hi. my mpex account has been inaccessible roughly since the time of the final bbet settlement - a bug or a feature?
17:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform look at the events. in the unwarranted assumption that mp will be impressed with a show of miner strength, they proceeded to mess with bitbet payments. this backfired spectacularly when mp was not only not impressed, but actually went public with it, live.
17:56 mircea_popescu then in the unwarranted assumption that mp actually needs the piddly 1k btc held for bitbet, they tried to use whatever loose assemblage of assets to force mp to recant de facto. which idem backfired spectacularly when mp not only failed to recant as intended, but pissed with a large arch on the whole proposition, and cut out with hot irons anything that may even remotely resemble.
↖
17:56 mircea_popescu kakobrekla you were banned from mpex subsequent your last doomed attempt to fuck up the bitbet process on davout's blog.
17:56 mircea_popescu now bugger off.
17:57 kakobrekla aha so you are keeping my btc?
17:58 mircea_popescu for the record : during the duration of that account, you deposited 20.02 btc, and withdrew : 670.37 btc. "your" btc is a misnomer at best.
18:01 kakobrekla the p/l has no relevance to your embezzlement of funds tied to my key.
18:01 mircea_popescu that'll be all.
↖
18:01 mircea_popescu $down kakobrekla
18:02 mircea_popescu but gotta appreciate the sheer cheek, in any case.
18:04 shinohai >.>
18:05 asciilifeform waiwut, i thought he was a bbet shareholder >
18:05 asciilifeform ?
18:05 mats mircea_popescu: nm, off to see a show
18:06 asciilifeform or how did it wurk
18:06 kakobrekla first the pretending and now you plain stealing - way to go!
18:07 asciilifeform did mircea_popescu formally sentence kako to dekulakization? i must've slept through this.
18:08 mats fun fact, canto people typically have soup with every meal
18:08 mircea_popescu it definitely helps the gullet yeah.
18:08 shinohai i make potato soup but no potato only rok
18:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how'd you have known anyway ?
18:09 asciilifeform well mircea_popescu has a habit of punishing folx in public
18:09 asciilifeform so possibly then
18:10 mircea_popescu didn't seem particularly interesting. it's in public now, at any rate.
18:11 asciilifeform i can't speak for others, but a fella being drummed out of mpex with dekulakization is a newsworthy thing imho.
18:11 mircea_popescu litte news reaches us from the distant fogs of mpex. but sure.
18:12 asciilifeform BingoBoingo ^ qntra ?
~ 16 minutes ~
18:28 asciilifeform iirc in the l0gz we learned that even straight usg has mpex account(s), and parked coin stolen from its prisoners (e.g., dpr) there.
18:28 asciilifeform why not dekulakize them ?
18:30 mircea_popescu how exactly are you going to come to any sort of sensible conclusions on the basis of the random derpage of some dude who's principally known for random derpage ?
18:30 mircea_popescu anyway, im off to party, bbl.
18:30 shinohai lulzy
18:31 asciilifeform well dude was also known as bona fide shareholder in bbet.
18:31 asciilifeform which was liquidated.
18:31 asciilifeform and now we learn... he's not ?
↖
~ 47 minutes ~
19:18 jurov lol you expect any logic? after all this?
19:20 asciilifeform i have monumentally nfi
19:20 jurov you just mentioned stalin on other chan, now imagine yourself demanding explanation from stalin :D
19:20 asciilifeform stalin, on the contrary, had pretty good explanations.
19:20 asciilifeform inside his circle.
19:22 jurov Yes, you do prefer to think that way.
19:22 * asciilifeform aficionado, reads memoirs, etc
19:23 asciilifeform at any rate, i'm not in the business of demanding explanations from folks, but i do make inferences.
19:23 asciilifeform and apparently we can infer that mircea_popescu hates kako more than he hates the dpr confiscators.
19:23 asciilifeform which i find interesting.
~ 36 minutes ~
19:59 BingoBoingo Divorce is contentious, News at 11.
20:05 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ever been phriends with both pieces of a divorce ?
20:11 shinohai akward.jpg
~ 47 minutes ~
20:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469949 << that part was handled by davout ; i'm pretty sure he got his half from him ; in any case davour charged it against me in the final settlement, and i dun expect he didn't remit it.
20:58 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 22:31 asciilifeform: and now we learn... he's not ?
21:00 mircea_popescu and hate dun enter into it. derp's been making outright false, marginally false and otherwise tendentious statements since just about the day it became clear the oh-so-genius plan won't catch. i see no merit in it and reason to entertain them.
21:00 asciilifeform which plan
21:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469916
21:01 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 21:56 mircea_popescu: then in the unwarranted assumption that mp actually needs the piddly 1k btc held for bitbet, they tried to use whatever loose assemblage of assets to force mp to recant de facto. which idem backfired spectacularly when mp not only failed to recant as intended, but pissed with a large arch on the whole proposition, and cut out with hot irons anything that may even remotely resemble.
21:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu tellin' me that kako betrayed ze motherland ?!
21:06 mircea_popescu so far i'm telling you he's been banned from mpex upon http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-proposed-settlement-transaction#comment-8579 and from #trilema upon http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469922
21:06 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 22:01 mircea_popescu: that'll be all.
21:07 asciilifeform and, afaik, first to publicly have this 'honour'
21:07 mircea_popescu possibly.
21:07 mircea_popescu hm, no, actually there was a derp that managed to exploit some timing issue early on.
21:10 asciilifeform interesting - this was in dark age pre-l0gz ?
21:10 mircea_popescu possibly, yeah. well, not pre-logs, but pre-what's public now i think.
21:11 asciilifeform did the banned fella kick up a stink ?
21:11 mircea_popescu actually there might have been a coupla more publicly known of people with compromised keys
21:11 mircea_popescu i imagine must've.
21:20 asciilifeform how does one know that a fella has compromised key ?
21:20 asciilifeform (other than by pwning him personally)
21:20 mircea_popescu "one" doesn't know much.
21:21 asciilifeform i can picture the symptoms though.
21:22 asciilifeform in other 'nyooz', guess who ~doesn't~ run winblowz: https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/valdai-club-3-touring-the-don-2n-radar-facility
21:22 asciilifeform (linked primarily for the console photo)
21:23 asciilifeform reportedly thing is plugged into a real live 'elbrus-2'.
21:23 asciilifeform circa '77.
21:23 mircea_popescu you know still couldn't locate any of them things...
21:24 asciilifeform well they only made, iirc, 200 'elbrus-2' (which were cray-2 sized and shaped)
21:24 mircea_popescu no i meant the modern ones.
21:24 asciilifeform ah
21:24 mircea_popescu it's been half a fucking year or what.
21:24 asciilifeform yeah i suspect that none were sold to humans.
21:25 mircea_popescu im not atm persuaded they exist more than "bfl delivery" existed back in the bitbet bet days.
21:26 mircea_popescu ie, someone somewhere might have received a prototype.
21:26 asciilifeform most ru wunderwaffen happen in individually numbered prototypes.
21:32 mircea_popescu yeah well, i'm not THAT curious about them.
21:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally, you ever made any sense of the rms notion that "free hardware" is nothing like "free software" ?
21:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: very pointedly not
21:33 asciilifeform it struck me as pure 'delusionist'
21:33 asciilifeform and i think i frothed about it here even.
21:33 asciilifeform (but possibly not)
21:33 mircea_popescu they always puzzled me, these inconsistent derps. jimbo wales thinks he's a "libertarian", and "objectivist". one that somehow thinks corporate spying is bad, but "the government should put as many cameras up as possible - they'd prevent crimes".
21:34 mircea_popescu it's mindboggling.
21:34 asciilifeform folks who paint themselves into a logical corner tend to do this.
21:34 mircea_popescu why not just you know, review thew priors. LIKE SANE FUCKING PEOPLE.
21:35 mircea_popescu if anything, free hardware is more important/useful/valuable than free software, because i've busted open way more programs than chips.
21:35 asciilifeform yeah well. the time to review the priors is before you box yourself in
21:36 mircea_popescu no ; then you don't yet know. the time to review is when you notice the walls.
21:36 asciilifeform but it is worth remembering that rms began his thing in a time when hardware was rare and precious
21:36 asciilifeform and generally one had to swallow what was on the plate.
21:36 mircea_popescu anyway - same with music, because "it's not meant for use, but for appreciation". it's a fucking lasagna, what the fuck does this man actually believe ?
21:36 asciilifeform (and, also not irrelevant, it was generally sane)
21:36 mircea_popescu any program i ever cared about enough to bust open was meant for appreciation. such as fucking civ ffs.
21:37 mircea_popescu does a conference a week since 1995, hasn't yet explained the difference between things "not meant for practical use" and the rest. wtf is impractical use.
21:37 mircea_popescu motherfucker...
21:37 mircea_popescu see, now THIS i hate.
21:38 asciilifeform wai wut where is the 'practical use' line from
21:38 mircea_popescu $google "I think all works meant for practical uses must be free, but that does not apply to music, since music is meant for appreciation, not for practical use."
21:38 deedbot No results.
21:38 mircea_popescu yeah im sure.
21:38 mircea_popescu $google megaupload stallman comments
21:38 deedbot No results.
21:38 * mircea_popescu shrugs
21:39 asciilifeform i'm beginning to remember this tho
21:39 asciilifeform 'Printer patterns to make a useful, practical object (i.e., functional rather than decorative) must be free because they are works made for practical use. '
21:39 mircea_popescu http://stallman.org/archives/2011-nov-feb.html#22_January_2012_%28Megaupload%29
21:39 asciilifeform ( http://www.wired.com/2015/03/need-free-digital-hardware-designs )
21:41 mircea_popescu what is the difference between http://66.media.tumblr.com/c407c30b01293c9ff352c63a7b5bddf5/tumblr_n4yj3752Wj1s8fyi8o1_1280.jpg (dressed for appreciation) and http://67.media.tumblr.com/566f03f4f3eedef6a9b03decd8443885/tumblr_n2cb74nquJ1solxm8o1_400.gif (practical use) ?
21:41 mircea_popescu same fucking cunt omfg.
21:42 mircea_popescu is it the thickness of the baseball penisbat ?
21:43 asciilifeform there is this thing,
21:43 asciilifeform where fella decides he 'believes' x,y,z but is not intellectually up to the task of systematizing
21:43 asciilifeform and ends up with 'for practical use...' poppycock
21:44 mircea_popescu this is not belief. this is an uppity ronin slave.
21:44 asciilifeform it is always quite painful to watch.
21:44 mircea_popescu it's unpleasant to watch in a context where the others say anything but "hey, you're having these problems because you're an uppity ronin slave. how about you drop the aferations and go follow a master."
21:45 asciilifeform why would a successful (in the financial own-legs sense) heresiarch 'go follow a master' ?
21:46 mircea_popescu because not intellectually up to the task of not following.
21:46 asciilifeform wake me up when anybody anywhere performs this type of seppuku.
21:47 mircea_popescu why the fuck does the rich guy go to church.
21:47 asciilifeform to pick up chix?
21:47 mircea_popescu same fucking reason the poor guy goes : cuz he can't make sense of the world around him
21:47 asciilifeform (iirc it was why dan mocsny went)
21:48 mircea_popescu in which we find aferation is not an english word. a well. it denotes one who appears to have a lot to do / be in the thick of things / busy, but really just pretending. a george costanza of sorts.
21:49 asciilifeform next we find that aferist is not english word!!?
21:49 asciilifeform (google claims it translates 'swindler')
21:50 mircea_popescu anyway, tongue in cheek evolution of latin affero.
22:01 mircea_popescu $google tits cunt fuck piss shit motherfucker cocksucker
22:01 deedbot No results.
22:01 mircea_popescu oh you gotta be fucking kidding me
22:01 mircea_popescu $google no results
22:01 asciilifeform i think it croaked long ago
22:01 deedbot http://noresults.tumblr.com/ << No Results | https://www.nngroup.com/articles/search-no-results-serp/ << 3 Guidelines for Search Engine "No Results" Pages | http://www.noresults-nofee.com/ << Welcome to Leader Publishing Worldwide | Leader Publishing ...
22:01 asciilifeform hm
22:01 mircea_popescu there's soemthing wrong with longer lines i think
22:01 mircea_popescu $google tits
22:01 deedbot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_(bird) << Tit (bird) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://www.xvideos.com/tags/tits << tits videos - XVIDEOS.COM | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Tits << Jacques Tits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
22:02 mircea_popescu $google cunt tits
22:02 deedbot http://www.showyourcunt.org/ << Show Your Cunt - Girls, Show your Cunt, Tits and Ass here!!! | http://www.xvideos.com/video13034673/showing_a_perfect_cunt_tits_and_ass << showing a perfect cunt tits and ass - XVIDEOS.COM | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv-qSHT1W3k << old lady cunt tits - YouTube
22:02 mircea_popescu weird.
22:02 asciilifeform quite
~ 18 minutes ~
22:21 mircea_popescu in any case, even the proposition that somehow "use" is good while "enjoyment" bad, first to be supported off public tolerance, mandated ; latter to be punished stinks to high heavens of outright evil protestantism bullshit.
~ 17 minutes ~
22:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc it was some variation of 'you don't need to know how magic trick works'
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