Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-11-14 | 2016-11-16 → ↓
00:06 asciilifeform protest 'unthinkable' dissent from the 'consensus' of the beetle-men who, it turns out, really won in '45.
00:07 asciilifeform (the folx with souls, or equiv. -- mostly killed one another. leaving -- this.)
00:09 asciilifeform and they hate, yes, even music, in so far as it pertains to the non-beetles, rather how proverbial vampire hates the crucifix
00:11 * ben_vulpes is pleased that coors is now the republican "murkka beer"
00:11 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: what's murkka beer ?
00:11 ben_vulpes "america"
00:12 asciilifeform the pisswater that is not even distinguishable in the piss tank from the input ?
00:12 ben_vulpes well it's /fermented/ on the downstream side
00:12 ben_vulpes but no, "coors" is the pisswater, "murkka" is the place.
00:16 asciilifeform i have nfi what is the appeal.
00:17 asciilifeform at least the rotgut from BingoBoingo's 'night train' article, is cheap road to complete catatonia
00:17 asciilifeform (he might be interested to learn that very similar beverages existed in su)
00:17 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Would not be surprised at all. These things find a way.
00:20 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://agriculture.by/upload/News/144102_31-vino.jpg << they still exist in belorus. with marks like 'merry carousel'..
00:20 BingoBoingo I doubt they will ever cease to exist.
00:22 asciilifeform these typically were made by admixture of 3rd rate fruit juices (sometimes spoiled) and ethyl.
00:23 asciilifeform ( naturally i did not live long enough to drink these, know of them mainly from memoirs of folks from past 2 generations )
00:23 BingoBoingo Just like night train/thunderbird/et al. They are a societally necessary sort of thing.
~ 2 hours 16 minutes ~
02:40 BingoBoingo !!up the_scourge
02:40 deedbot the_scourge voiced for 30 minutes.
02:40 BingoBoingo the_scourge: What did you get pinched for?
~ 4 hours 35 minutes ~
07:16 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3CFFFB47C333728371427FE2CB20F1E5699D1AB4181C86C19BDC93D9CC580856 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 10360675149891496696743993074038515514679184692657560451481201750238139845648139005675108913997292011349770797364446313354371937302222251376246656792243397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.231.226 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.231.226 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on
07:17 mircea_popescu goood mornin' phuctor lol
07:24 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3CFFFB47C333728371427FE2CB20F1E5699D1AB4181C86C19BDC93D9CC580856 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 10360675149891496696743993074038515514679184692657560451481201750238139845648139005675108913997292011349770797364446313354371937302222251376246656792243397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.231.226 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.231.226 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on
07:24 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E398AB2D76701B47540512A265F39492F768F68C2ABFFAF708B52A5F1FCEA627 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 10360675149891496696743993074038515514679184692657560451481201750238139845648139005675108913997292011349770797364446313354371937302222251376246656792243397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '74.45.228.223 (ssh-rsa key from 74.45.228.223 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on
07:27 mircea_popescu hm. repeated.
~ 1 hours 56 minutes ~
09:24 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/theyre-not-progressive-theyre-just-lazy-a-practical-exercise/ << Trilema - They're not progressive, they're just lazy - a practical exercise
~ 55 minutes ~
10:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i still have nfi why deedbot repeats'em, the rss page itself, notice, never repeats.
10:22 mod6 mornin'
10:22 asciilifeform mornin' mod6
10:24 mircea_popescu must be some confusion
10:25 asciilifeform i vaguely recall that there was a hypothesis, but unable to find it in the logz
10:27 mircea_popescu incidentally, anyone bothered to gather all these factored ssh keys, reconstruct their privkeys, and then try connect to the whole internet using it ?
10:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i thought we went over this
10:28 asciilifeform breaking these ssh keys doesn't get you in anywhere
10:28 mircea_popescu how do you know this ?
10:28 asciilifeform only lets you eavesdrop
10:28 mircea_popescu again - how do you know this ?
10:29 mircea_popescu yes, obviously, you can now mitm whoever tries to connect to compromised box. HOWEVER there's no rule that someone coouldn't have made one of these boxes admins on other boxes.
10:29 asciilifeform aite, somewhere, there could be a maniac who configured his box for ssh ~login~ , and with same key as some such in phuctor.
10:29 mircea_popescu could be ? my dear alf, i'm willing to bet there is, on the strength of experience to date.
10:30 Framedragger can you even use an ssh server key as ssh client key (and yes i agree if it's easy to do, someone will have done it)
10:30 asciilifeform Framedragger: it is ~possible~ to use 0000...0 as ssh key..
10:30 mircea_popescu a key's a key, there's no "server key" as such.
10:31 mircea_popescu ie, generate key on server, have it spit out the priv/pub pair, register it into another server, done.
10:31 Framedragger i mean in practical terms, of course, theoretically, but as in, would a canonical ssh agent eat it up
10:31 asciilifeform i presently know of no system that ships with remote-login-with-key-auth enabled by default. does not mean that there isn't such a thing.
10:31 * mircea_popescu has this morning looked into cpanel, it would seem you can do this trivally.
10:31 Framedragger well for one ssh client keys normally have an email/ID associated with them, not sure if ssh agent would like an ssh server key. in theory, yes, sure
10:32 Framedragger hm. worth a try for sure.
10:32 mircea_popescu Framedragger 1. open cpanel session 2. generate ssh key 3. export it 4. import it into another. see a connect to b.
10:32 Framedragger okey dokey. point taken
10:32 mircea_popescu now, whether anyone has actually done this who's also in our set is of course dubious
10:33 mircea_popescu but i'm thinking maybe it went from "crack rsa" to "phuctor" level of dubiousness.
10:37 asciilifeform this would be a slightly more interesting imho exercise if the popped boxes were not all routers/webcams/etc where no one hangs on shell
10:38 asciilifeform though i will point out that i do not conclusively know this about ~all~ of them, only all of the ones that are still alive at the ip where they turned up in june...
10:39 mircea_popescu more a case of "locate the maniacs" than anything.
10:39 mircea_popescu i think people generally misunderstand just how fucking abundant insanity is
10:40 asciilifeform btw quite a few of those boxen you can log into, right ~now~
10:40 asciilifeform with default creds.
10:40 mircea_popescu aha.
10:40 mircea_popescu it wasn't some sort of grand "oh we shall pwn boxen" as such.
10:40 asciilifeform (the remainder - also can, with manufacturer's backdoor pw, which i simply do not happen to know)
10:40 mircea_popescu though "admin" and "12345" usually carry the day
10:41 asciilifeform admin/[blank] interestingly, most common on the current set.
10:41 mircea_popescu i suppose it's better from an ux perspective.
10:41 mircea_popescu also what customers have come to expect, what with http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567492 etc
10:41 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 02:09 asciilifeform: 'The attacker just have to press and keep pressing the [Enter] key at the LUKS password prompt until a shell appears, which occurs after 70 seconds approx.'
10:42 asciilifeform btw everyone possibly already knows this, but bugmakers refer to nsa et al as 'customers'
10:42 asciilifeform (and not, as naively one might expect, to their ~actual~ customers as such)
10:51 jurov mircea_popescu: to actually connect, client keys must be cracked. asciilifeform: when can i expect the hopper to free for these?
10:51 mircea_popescu jurov yes ?
10:52 jurov i have the github pubkeys
10:52 mircea_popescu o, those are still waiting ? i thought they were in already for some reason.
11:01 mircea_popescu meanwhile at hooker motel, http://68.media.tumblr.com/ff0a272b2abcbdcf9d79b7323f40a47a/tumblr_mupvdzpGOt1sdw9gyo1_1280.jpg
~ 27 minutes ~
11:28 asciilifeform jurov: i can slip'em in after the current batch of Framedragger keys is digested, a few wks from now. otherwise - april or so.
11:28 mircea_popescu bejaysus, we actually have 6 months of fuel here ?!
11:28 asciilifeform we do.
11:29 mircea_popescu somehow i was under the impression we're just about running out
11:29 asciilifeform jurov: if you have them in ready format, send'em over.
11:29 mircea_popescu and so then what, jurov 's set is gonna add another what... two years ? more ?
11:29 asciilifeform i have nfi how many he has
11:29 jurov iirc 10millions. they're still in e,N,comment CSV
11:29 mircea_popescu but basically we're at what, 200k/month or such ?
11:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: approx.
11:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the feeding is the sole bottleneck.
11:30 mircea_popescu jurov you got us covered for 2 years!
11:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform any way this can be sped up though ?
11:31 asciilifeform theoretically there are ways
11:31 asciilifeform will need substantial work tho.
11:31 mircea_popescu there's worse fates than a 2year phuctor fuel supply. (i guess.)
11:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform did you ever get a copy of jurov's keys though ?
11:32 asciilifeform dun think so
11:33 asciilifeform or wait
11:33 mircea_popescu i thought he sent it
11:33 asciilifeform i have something:
11:33 jurov http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469636
11:33 a111 Logged on 2016-05-20 17:47 jurov: asciilifeform: github rsa keys: http://www.explo.yt/phathub-201506.csv.xz
11:33 asciilifeform 5662db8716ddfa945e0b45103517eb681b32f7c2615af731ae0644737e92389122f8740e6f86201e61b96513bd2ace3301dd288c88f3e93bae46dd7594327dac phathub-201506.csv.xz
11:33 asciilifeform aaaaha it.
11:33 asciilifeform so yes.
11:33 mircea_popescu cool then.
11:33 asciilifeform there it is.
11:33 mircea_popescu jurov sorry if this is frustratingly slow.
11:36 Framedragger jurov: i have a trivial python script based on your openpgp-generator to convert arbitrary numbers of e,N,comment into pgp if interested (but you prolly have something of the same - just in case)
11:36 jurov Should have converted them to gpg, as Framedragger did.
11:36 asciilifeform Framedragger: jurov posted a quite working one earlier, i used it for the amd keys recently
11:36 asciilifeform (and posted that version here also)
11:37 Framedragger ah yeah i recall. i think my only modification is that it handles bulk amounts, but really nothing special
11:37 Framedragger also, i may want to re-run the base ipv4 ssh server finder at some point, i'm sure i'll get some more keys :p
11:38 jurov yea, they usually don't survive reinstalls
11:38 asciilifeform Framedragger: this time, i recommend, with built-in port scan
11:38 Framedragger (vc's cockbox vps don't care about no abuse complaintz.)
11:39 Framedragger asciilifeform: as in, scan additional ports, you mean?
11:39 asciilifeform as in, if it serves up http or https on any port, i want a snapshot
11:39 Framedragger or banner-grabber? i have all the banners still. (and no i haven't done anything with them, yet)
11:39 asciilifeform if telnet - the greeting string
11:39 asciilifeform and yes
11:39 Framedragger ah, right on. yes, fair enough.
11:39 asciilifeform (and if https -- the pubkey also!)
11:40 asciilifeform because these, imho, ought to go next.
11:40 asciilifeform why should henninger et al and their 'seekrit evidence' remain 'state of art'
11:40 Framedragger aha, the way it'd work, it'd still scan only port 22 initially, because grabbing banners / doing stateful communication is much slower. doing the former is a matter of TCP SYN/ACK, with embedded 'cookies', no need for state
11:40 Framedragger but the 2nd ssh-key-extractor stage can do the stuff you want, yes.
11:40 Framedragger sounds good
11:41 Framedragger aha yes, ssl certs should go into the oven, too.
11:41 asciilifeform betcha even if this is slow, it is still faster than feeding'em into the db currently
11:41 asciilifeform (they, as everyone probably already guessed, get db queried one-at-a-time. to do anything else would result in a 50x more complicated phuctor.)
11:43 asciilifeform phuctor is a living illustration of the tradeoffs of 'muntzing'. it is ~100 % reliable, and (aside from the unicode turdolade) demonstrably bug-free. but this comes at a price.
11:43 mircea_popescu Framedragger preferably sometime in 2019 lo;
11:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform wut seekrit evidence ?
11:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they never, afaik, published one single factor.
11:44 asciilifeform or the ip of one single popped box.
11:44 mircea_popescu of course not. but i dun grok how it relates ?
11:45 asciilifeform well, they -- supposedly -- did phuctor-with-ssl
11:45 Framedragger mircea_popescu: i have this idea of doing focused not-for-coal-mines work this summer (some time after May) lol. so maybe even 2017!!1
11:45 asciilifeform and then wrote fancy paper with charts etc. but 0 actual hard evidence
11:45 mircea_popescu except a) they didn't and b) we did and c) they published nothing and d) we published both ips and factors ?
11:45 asciilifeform aha.
11:46 asciilifeform they published (claimed) tally, charts, 'discussion'
11:46 asciilifeform as these folx tend to.
11:46 mircea_popescu Framedragger the idea being that we're overflowing data to process, after your set ends up in spring jurov's goes in and may take a year+
11:46 Framedragger ahh, that's what you mean. yeah k lol.
11:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform straight to http://trilema.com/2016/theyre-not-progressive-theyre-just-lazy-a-practical-exercise/
11:46 Framedragger well, it is nice to have data.
11:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha.
11:47 asciilifeform in all fairness, i will likely rewrite it again before 2 yrs . seems to have become a yearly chore.
11:47 mircea_popescu you should see the level this kabuki has achieved. they actually post multiple imagemagick generated jpegs. which are "proof"
11:48 Framedragger could it be that half of them are bots, mircea_popescu? can't imagine them being able to use imagemagick for the life of me
11:48 mircea_popescu http://c2n.me/3EoP61W.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoP6jH.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoP6Cw.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoP7Op.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoP8qD.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoP9cQ.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoP9Mv.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoPag1.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoPaE7.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoPbk7.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoPbUH.jpg http://c2n.me/3EoPciS.jpg << like so.
11:48 mircea_popescu this proves something
11:48 asciilifeform and if we really get mircea_popescu's botnet system, perhaps phuctor can finally get off the elephant box and onto 1024 chickens..
11:48 mircea_popescu Framedragger i expect they have a fully scripted environment cobbled together out of visual basic, httpfox and what have you
11:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lemon market, there.
11:49 Framedragger well, good for the skriptkiddies then. a spammy-scripty strategy is a strategy nonetheless.
11:49 asciilifeform and l0l!!1 is THIS why i'm getting arsebook hits on dulap..?
11:49 Framedragger except for the whole "wasting time of actual people" side of things..
11:50 mircea_popescu Framedragger the problem they face is that as they cannibalized language itself they're now stuck in a very lost world without any possibility of out of band
11:50 mircea_popescu the ancient cobbler apprentice who did a bad job had two out of band systems, his master's crop and his master's words, to shake him out of biological amoebasty.
11:50 mircea_popescu but these kids, who cobble not sandals but the very words... they're stuck in monoband world. and i honestly see no possible solution.
11:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes.
11:51 Framedragger i see what you mean. now it's a closed bubble/system for them, sort of...
11:51 asciilifeform ^C^C^C^C^C^C^C
11:52 mircea_popescu anyway. i don't think they wasted my time nor do i think myself the victim. fact is i can turn them into value if i so decide, much like the beekeeper can make candles and honeycomb if he wants. and if i don't want - i just don't make a fiverr account. not like they can do anything whatsoever, they can't even elect hillary.
11:52 asciilifeform reminds me, more than anything, of that time, half decade ago now, that i bought some 'google ads' for my robot control product
11:52 asciilifeform (story is in the logz)
11:52 mircea_popescu but they concerned with the proposition of alf the bee-dog's bees, ie these things... they've a serious problem.
11:53 asciilifeform at this point i cannot think of what these 'bees' might be good for, they are not even bees, but roaches, there is no roach candle wax afaik.
11:53 asciilifeform even solving spam 'captcha' is better with machine.
11:56 mircea_popescu well, you can kill them elaborately for the public amusement...
11:57 asciilifeform i picture that even this gets old. (though i will still buy ticket!)
11:58 mircea_popescu well, as appetite strikes. avocado never got old.
11:59 asciilifeform speaking of public amusement, word is that ~all~ 3,000 or so obummer 'staffers' are quitting. and now being replaced.
↖
12:00 mircea_popescu Framedragger re automation angle - i dunno, i suppose varying amounts of elbow grease could be employed, entirely as a mechanical gearbox, in lieu of actual automation. just it doesn't fit in my head - the same people who wouldn't read ten words would then go through the motions, orders of magnitude more complex, of making screenshots etc ?
12:00 asciilifeform (that forest of office towers around wh is full of these, traditionally)
12:00 mircea_popescu not that it's out and out impossible, after all the bee will do what it knows in preference of all otehr deeds.
12:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "quitting" is how they'd like it to be called.
12:01 mircea_popescu Framedragger if that blurring is not imagemagick'd in place, then how was it obtained ? that sorta thing.
12:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as was said about hruschev, 'его ушли'
12:02 asciilifeform 'he was quitted'
12:02 mircea_popescu aha lol
12:02 mircea_popescu in romanian - fu uschit
12:02 Framedragger mircea_popescu: yeah, i guess can't be certain. doesn't really fit for sure..
12:03 mircea_popescu the very notion of "screenshot as proof" is suspect and to my mind inseparable from http://trilema.com/2014/o-hai-let-me-verify-your-identity/
12:05 asciilifeform promisetronic 'verifications' are an eternal plague among the stupid. consider even the timestamp in gpg (to make the phuctor sig from last night's qntra, i used ordinary gpg 1.4, with patch). what business does a userland proggy have asking for the wall clock time without permission? if i want it to have a time, i will pipe 'date' to it...
12:06 mircea_popescu myeah.
12:08 mircea_popescu not, on the other hand, to deny that there in fact exists this subculture dedicated to the screenshot as quotation mechanism, or that tech support teams regularly see terrabytes of crap each month, clogging the tubes for no conceivable reason. it has to do with a failure of literacy, a certain laziness of the mind that thinks in symbols (which is what the screenshot is).as newman put it, "to see things as they are, to go righ
12:08 mircea_popescu t to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought, to detect what is sophistical, and to discard what is irrelevant."
12:09 asciilifeform also has to do with ubiquitously broken software (why the fuck is it possible for www site's scripts to MODIFY THE CLIPBOARD??)
12:09 mircea_popescu im pretty sure that's javascript.
12:09 asciilifeform well yes
12:09 asciilifeform but that is not answer
12:09 mircea_popescu hey, if you run js you're basically outsourcing root.
12:11 asciilifeform if you plug in the nic, you're 'outsourcing root', eh.
12:11 mircea_popescu but javascript is specifically dedicated to doing dumb shit like "i'll pretend to be you - and fill the clipboard"
12:11 mircea_popescu that's what it DOES.
12:12 asciilifeform and break the 'back' button, etc.
12:12 asciilifeform draw 'popup' on screen straight through supposed 'popup filter'
12:12 asciilifeform and the like.
12:12 mircea_popescu well, in fairness the back button thing is because browsers are shit more than anything. there's a thousand ways to break it, including by introducing an expiring page in the stack etc.
12:13 mircea_popescu ie, the back button itself is promisetronic as implemented by browsers. "almost like lisp!"
12:13 asciilifeform whole thing is a crock of shit, for quite fundamental reasons -- let teenage cocklets design infrastructure, it will look like www stack every time.
12:14 asciilifeform and ever power switch, on every box i've had since my 'cyrix' 486-dx, was promisetronic.
12:15 asciilifeform (incidentally -- it was mandated, by microshit. purely as show of force.)
12:16 mircea_popescu to get back to the pguctor feeding briefly - you mean "one at a time" as in insert into whatever values () as opposed to insert into whatever values (),(),() ?
12:17 asciilifeform as in, the thing gets hashed, and db gets queried for the hash, and for the fp (these are two separate and not wholly overlapping ways to index pgp keys) to see if we already have either
12:17 asciilifeform then inserted correctly.
12:17 mircea_popescu ah. myeah.
12:18 mircea_popescu what db is it, progres ?
12:18 asciilifeform aha
12:18 asciilifeform postg.
12:18 asciilifeform bog-standard.
12:18 mircea_popescu i think some magic could be had where you put all the new items into a new table then merge the two tables where hashes don't match.
12:18 mircea_popescu but i am no db expert.
12:19 asciilifeform this is what i meant when said 'theoretically - yes'
12:21 mircea_popescu aha
12:23 asciilifeform https://archive.is/OulNa << can't say that herr soros is spent quite yet!111 they are marching out ~high school~ pupils to 'protest' nao.
12:23 asciilifeform (for non-u.s. folk: this is not a thing normally permitted)
12:24 asciilifeform 'About 800 Montgomery Blair High School students attended the rally at the stadium, and most returned to class afterward, Montgomery County Public Schools spokeswoman Gboyinde Onijala said.'
12:24 mircea_popescu gbo who ?!
12:24 asciilifeform aha, i also dropped jaw
12:24 mircea_popescu what happened to "you're not willing to follow the rules, you can't take public office" ?
12:25 asciilifeform linked ~solely for this detail.
12:25 asciilifeform fdr.
12:25 asciilifeform lincoln. et al.
12:27 mircea_popescu "It hurt me inside knowing somebody from outside our race is talking bad about us," said Rodriguez, carrying a sign reading, "Brown and Proud."
12:27 pete_dushenski brown race ? how racist.
12:28 mircea_popescu kinda the point of the whole "special" bullshit. everything the anal child does is directed towards the same protection of his childhood, and in this particular case - if he's special enough then you can't "say bad things" because are outside ; and if you're not outside he'll just... specialize more.
12:28 pete_dushenski like whole #rapemelania thing, libertards are now outting themselves as the biggest racists/sexists/bigots around, post-trump
12:31 pete_dushenski http://archive.is/rTmsK << "where is the outrage??!"
12:31 pete_dushenski !~ticker --market all --currency rmb
12:31 mircea_popescu o hey, apparently twitter DOESN'T have you know, guidelines etc anymore.
12:32 pete_dushenski gotta appeal to any and all possible suitors now that it's turning tricks on the corner for dimes. go jack!
12:32 mircea_popescu who's jack ?
12:32 pete_dushenski dorsey. twitter founder.
12:32 mircea_popescu ah ok.
12:34 mircea_popescu lol chris rock dun give a shit, he's promoting some new movie and big titty tuesday
12:34 pete_dushenski he was kicked out / sold out when twitter was nearing peak valuation then brought back to 'save' co. meanwhile he shoulda stayed on the beach sipping margaritas because he failed miserably to 'pull a steve'
12:38 mircea_popescu hey, i'm sure they're paying him to be there.
12:39 BingoBoingo Sure but they are porlly paying him with Inequity!
12:40 mircea_popescu eh. maybe they're paying him in fresh tail. so he made up some scam, sold it to some suckers for $$$, then they want him to come back and be worshipped by all the interns ? sure, why not.
12:40 mircea_popescu maybe some of 'em want to go away for a weekend, you don't know till you ask amirite.
12:41 BingoBoingo Nah, it's Inequity. See Jack, he is in Tweaven and you are banned.
12:41 pete_dushenski "At Twitter, he didn't collect a salary or stock options last year and only received personal and residential security costs totaling $68,506." << dorsey's 2015 figures
12:41 mircea_popescu lol
12:41 mircea_popescu i'm telling you, tail.
12:41 asciilifeform there are other untaxable unsalaries, unoptions, e.g., jet rides, etc.
12:41 mircea_popescu who the fuck would want stock options on twitter.
12:42 asciilifeform nobody, so paid in mig rides and cuntjuice
12:43 BingoBoingo Well, as Elliot pointed out Tail is also an Inequity
12:43 mircea_popescu they're prolly too ethnic for elliot.
12:45 BingoBoingo And Elliot is too ethnic for them.
12:45 BingoBoingo So unfair.
12:45 BingoBoingo Such a valuable inequity.
12:45 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#349 << ohmygerd how i hate this shit. it ends with "to quote text in screenshot of screenshot, i'll make a screenshot". tumblr at least retains/-ed the concept of a "quote as a block of text". wouldn't be surprised if not for long.
12:45 scriba Logged on 2016-11-15: [17:08:07] <mircea_popescu> not, on the other hand, to deny that there in fact exists this subculture dedicated to the screenshot as quotation mechanism, or that tech support teams regularly see terrabytes of crap each month, clogging the tubes for no conceivable reason. it has to do with a failure of literacy, a certain laziness of the mind that thinks in symbols (which is
12:45 scriba what the screenshot is).as newman put it, "to see things as they are, to go righ
12:59 mircea_popescu myeah. rahter insufferable aren't they.
13:10 Framedragger this reminds of james mickens' rants on 'mobile' and 'modern web', e.g. (JS - i've linked to it once iirc, under the bdsm social board discussion): http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/mickens/files/towashitallaway.pdf (html: http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/towashitallaway.html - for logs)
13:12 Framedragger (and no, the irony of linking to pdf which talks about stupid frontend formats is not lost on me... :( )
13:13 asciilifeform or to html ver that is missing one word in 5 from original...
13:13 asciilifeform (which is a shame, this is a great piece imho)
13:14 asciilifeform the one problem, shared with every other piece like this that i know of, is that it omits the obvious cure, which is not simply to thermonuke the crud, but to kill the horse it rode in on, and the rider, and to burn the field that it fed on, and salt it.
13:14 asciilifeform and bury long-lived reactor waste there, for good measure.
13:15 asciilifeform worked for netscape ? partied with jwz ? sat on itu standards committee ? there is a pick at butugychag with yer name on it.
13:17 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/crjex/?raw=true << ascii paste seems to grab the txt correctly, oddly enough.
13:19 Framedragger ah, that's nice.
13:19 Framedragger (and yes, agree.)
13:19 asciilifeform which is why i'm not terribly thrilled with strategic retreats like 'let's keep dns but with our root' etc.
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13:19 Framedragger (in fairness, the html sometimes mangles two words together, omitting a space, or somesuch. not many words are lost. but still, shame.)
13:21 asciilifeform Framedragger: some months ago i restored a vintage keyboard, with capacitative matrix (contactless) which needed new controller and analogue calibration etc. it was interesting learning experience in that i never understood how ~motherfucking reliable~ an ordinary keyboard must be before it feels usable.
13:21 Framedragger asciilifeform: do note that mircea_popescu's idea of keeping dns is more akin to a general WoT-enforced hashtable, update-able via (in principle) gossipd-compatible pgprams, and (for the time being) transportable over dns/udp. the latter so that dns clients can make use of it.
13:21 asciilifeform an error of 500 ppm or so is already quite painful, palpably
13:21 asciilifeform which is to say, one or two 'wtf, i pressed / and got F15' every day
13:21 Framedragger asciilifeform: which is, i think, not a complete retreat, so to speak
13:22 asciilifeform Framedragger: it is retreat in that it keeps 10,000,001 lines of C written by teenagers
13:22 asciilifeform (and transport link where nsa can flip any bit or drop any packet with impunity etc)
13:25 asciilifeform i will confess, that i judge any such effort first of all by one metric -- how many lines of jwz c code it EXTIRPATES
13:26 asciilifeform burn, with hot irons.
13:27 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/11/google-pull-adsense-from-news-content-it-doesnt-like/ << Qntra - Google Pull Adsense From News Content It Doesn't Like
13:27 asciilifeform (incidentally, if something runs ~solely~ on top of a system written in jwzc, it is to be counted as jwzc code, every line. just as every penny spent by an embezzler from his embezzled funds counts as mis-spent.)
13:28 asciilifeform hence js, etc., all same.
13:31 Framedragger asciilifeform: "it was interesting learning experience in that i never understood how ~motherfucking reliable~ an ordinary keyboard must be before it feels usable." very interesting! nice project. (ppm == pixels per meter?)
13:31 asciilifeform parts per million
13:31 Framedragger ah! k
13:32 Framedragger right, both precision and accuracy required (any error rate cripples the UX, etc.)
13:32 asciilifeform earlier this year, i wanted to fit symmetric cipher into trb, and get rid of 'blackholing' etc. but mircea_popescu correctly pointed out that it is the Wrong Thing to cement a pseudoscientific abortion like AES (or ANY OTHER known symmetric cipher!) into place
13:32 asciilifeform and i still agree.
13:33 asciilifeform and also agree re dns.
13:34 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#440 << sure, i guess. (note though that this effort would get rid of dns server code, though. and it does not obstruct one from later patching dns client code / rewriting a much more simplistic name query client.)
13:34 scriba Logged on 2016-11-15: [18:22:14] <asciilifeform> Framedragger: it is retreat in that it keeps 10,000,001 lines of C written by teenagers
13:34 asciilifeform when you make use of something, successfully, you inevitably come to rely on it. this is a cost. i am still paying the cost for having used a python library in 2013.
13:34 trinque lel
13:34 Framedragger re. plaintext for all NSAs to read, sure, there's that. goes against gossipd's "no free bits for the unauthenticated" i guess. but again, this can be wrapped in gossipd later.
13:35 trinque describe "wrapped in gossipd" ?
13:35 trinque one central table of all things seems entirely anti-gossipd
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13:35 asciilifeform Framedragger: worse than this, it is even difficult to quantity the cost of perpetuating the IDEA of a 'block cipher' as being A THING
13:35 Framedragger trinque: not that part. the transport part - name query/response, as well as name updates.
13:35 asciilifeform Framedragger: you cannot get rid of the idiocy of 10,000,001 lines of jwzola by 'wrapping' in anything
13:36 trinque Framedragger: name of what
13:36 Framedragger trinque: but yes, the central table thing remains
13:36 asciilifeform 'wrapping' is why software is garbage
13:36 asciilifeform all of it
13:36 asciilifeform this whole notion. that you can 'wrap' stupidity in something and hide it away.
13:36 Framedragger trinque: i meant as a generic string - trying to avoid the term 'domain' as the latter is not accurate..
13:36 trinque not what I'm asking
13:37 trinque I call that guy "shithead" and you call him "sir"
13:37 trinque so what?
13:37 trinque and who is right?
13:37 Framedragger trinque: right, this is cf. gossipd's "everyone has their own a la hosts file, and does with it what they like". is that what you meant?
13:37 * trinque is not opposed to doing something with DNS while we still must use it
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13:37 asciilifeform central namespaces are a dumb idea. i regard it as my duty to put this on record.
13:37 trinque just that it does *not* map sanely to gossiptronics
13:38 Framedragger i see what you mean.
13:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567796 << eh get out, nothing of that kind.
13:39 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 18:19 asciilifeform: which is why i'm not terribly thrilled with strategic retreats like 'let's keep dns but with our root' etc.
13:39 Framedragger i don't have a strong opinion, i wonder what mircea_popescu thinks. i guess the answer would also focus on the "while we still must use it" aspect
13:39 trinque sure, we have websites neh?
13:39 Framedragger "allegedly"
13:40 Framedragger so, yeah. and i'm no longer convinced it would redundant, in the sense that when gossipd cometh, one must throweth the 'general name system' away
13:41 Framedragger there could be WoT members maintaining their own namespaces that others may want to peruse, etc.
13:41 Framedragger but i speculate.
13:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform keeps my foot. what the hell does it keep ?
13:42 asciilifeform keeps the infrastructure - the clients, servers.
13:42 mircea_popescu go find one line of code currently involved in dns in any capacity that you can prove is going to remain there.
13:43 mircea_popescu ugh. no it doesn't.
13:43 mircea_popescu that's the whole discussion re "delgation" in the comments.
13:43 trinque it's kinda "I will not take this land until it is flying my flag already"
13:43 asciilifeform waaaiwat, why would you keep the unauthenticable crock of shit made of 10,001 ITU idiocies if you ~weren't~ gonna keep the code ?!
13:44 mircea_popescu there's no discussion re any of that. who said "unauthenticable" ?
13:44 asciilifeform unless i misunderstand, thread was about mircea_popescu's idea of recycling traditional dns, but using own root
13:45 mircea_popescu you misunderstand.
13:45 Framedragger personally i don't see why there could not be a GNS which would be separate from commitments to specific transport standards. have a table, have a transport layer, swap the layer later. i may be naive in regards to the "swap" step, i guess... :/
13:45 asciilifeform (incidentally, dns was cleverly designed by nato lackeys ~not to be~ cryptoencapsulable. for instance, it demands 512byte udp packet. go and wrap that in ANYTHING and see how fragments.)
13:46 asciilifeform so now you gotta replace all extant hardware.
13:46 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567823 << every system you ever use will have a dictionary ; and every system you ever used in the past had a dictionary. this is unavoidable. you prefer one over another, dictionaries, systems, that's your problem. but if you read the linked rfc - there's parts they get right, right before the parts they fuck up that i underlined in red.
13:46 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 18:35 trinque: one central table of all things seems entirely anti-gossipd
13:46 mircea_popescu you can't have a system without a dictionary.
13:46 Framedragger asciilifeform: i thought so too, but basically mircea_popescu's idea would dispatch of the whole 'dns zone' concept. there would be no 'domain' per se. dns clients could still query 'loper-os', but the server would be a simple table, with no understanding of zones or significance of "."
13:47 asciilifeform Framedragger: abstraction layering doesn't work. it is the great lie of the software age.
13:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the fact that you can query dns server over current dns protocol and get current response does NOT create an obligation on your to do so.
13:47 mircea_popescu feel free to query it over gossipd, or over whatever else.
13:47 asciilifeform Framedragger: fact is, central table of anything at all, is a throne, i simply do not see the 'win' from retaining the throne.
13:48 mircea_popescu so how do you propose to have a lisp ?
13:48 asciilifeform same way i have long division.
13:48 mircea_popescu be explicit. metaphora doesn't belong here.
13:49 trinque I would expect that if I am on gossipnet and I want loper-os, I ask my friends if they have a key which they call loper-os
13:49 asciilifeform then refine specifically what means 'a lisp' here
13:49 mircea_popescu if there's nowhere to lookup the "(" how will you have a lisp ? because "we all know" ? and if we don't know how do we find out ?
13:49 mircea_popescu out of band dns-over-phone is not an improvement. over anything.
13:49 mircea_popescu trinque and if you want to know what deedbot contains, also ask friends ?
13:49 asciilifeform and here we are speaking non-standardized commercial pidgin from long-dead empire, and it mostly worx..
13:50 mircea_popescu you ask your friends what they think ; not what the world is.
13:50 Framedragger asciilifeform: how about: make a proof of concept name system, use it instead of current dns root server set for now, later enable every gossipd user to run their own instance of name system if they prefer the fully-decentralized-dictionary path; the initial PoC will still have been useful.
13:50 Framedragger i guess counterpoint would be http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#456
13:50 scriba Logged on 2016-11-15: [18:34:31] <asciilifeform> when you make use of something, successfully, you inevitably come to rely on it. this is a cost. i am still paying the cost for having used a python library in 2013.
13:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "mostly" ie, "until mp requires a definition, then it all breaks down"
13:50 trinque mircea_popescu: no. once I know a key I can interact with deedbot if I can make it there over gossipd peerings
13:50 mircea_popescu trinque s/deedbot/dns/
13:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: anything pushed outside of its working envelope - breaks.
13:51 asciilifeform to go upstack, i see nothing wrong with 'we all agree on how arithmetic works, do business with keys, sex -- with people'
13:51 mircea_popescu "trilema.com is 4.5.6.7 according to mp. if you believe mp - then there you go". that's a dns record.
13:51 mircea_popescu even now. they try to pretend otherwise. that pretense has to have some light shed on it.
13:52 asciilifeform btw asciilifeform suffered with this problem in '10, and even put the notes up on www ( http://kyristor.com ) then concluded that it was braindamaged waste of time
13:52 asciilifeform to each -- his own name table.
13:52 mircea_popescu you will have to share some portions of the symbol tables.
13:52 mircea_popescu this is inescapable.
13:52 mircea_popescu once it's inescapable - it'll have to be implemented.
13:53 asciilifeform so you standardize the asking. it is really the basic wot operation
13:53 mircea_popescu we call this "dns" for historical reasons. but relations to the imperial braindamaged implementation are spurious.
13:53 asciilifeform does key '1F......BC' merit name of 'hero' or 'sc4mz0r', etc
13:53 mircea_popescu you can't standardize "the asking" ebcause the asking is made out of symbols which have to be meaningful.
13:53 asciilifeform so nail down the minimal 'ask'.
13:53 asciilifeform instead of palace economy with 1 table of names.
13:54 mircea_popescu really, read this rfc thing. it isn't long. where the fuck is it.
13:54 trinque it is not necessarily that there cannot be multiple tables, but perhaps that one must win
13:54 asciilifeform (see link, i narrowly missed drawing wot and whole shebang, through sheer thick-headedness )
13:54 asciilifeform trinque: what, in your mind, does 'win' look like ?
13:54 asciilifeform if it looks like usg dns, you have lost. definitionally.
13:54 trinque republican structure of meaning means there is this nexus of hierarchy and debate out of which is emitted *the truth*
13:54 asciilifeform because such a net isn't worth using.
13:54 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-14#1567188
13:54 a111 Logged on 2016-11-14 19:37 mircea_popescu: and, of course, 2000s vintage imperial lulz https://archive.is/g9O6H
13:55 mircea_popescu trinque the words you use must have meanings. even if they have the most peculiar of meanings such as nigger = bureaucrat or jew = us agitprop agent ; nevertheless they must be given. somewhere.
13:55 Framedragger "A0 can be implemented by regarding an authority's PGP public key as being its public routing address!" << nice kademlia and/or gossipd vibes
13:56 trinque mircea_popescu: aha I can see it.
13:56 mircea_popescu yes, it works fine in context, yes context frames needn't even map to identities ; nevertheless - you will have to have shared symbol tables.
13:56 asciilifeform trinque: there is 'nexus of hierarchy' where we, e.g., study writings of mircea_popescu because they make sense and worth respect. and there is the other kind of hierarchy, where prb makes dns query using usg.glibc and internic root server is hardbaked into the code.
13:56 asciilifeform and amd bakes magic key into mask rom.
13:56 trinque so then the solution must come of "we who matter have connected to node X for the table" and could do otherwise, but don't
13:56 trinque as we could rate X or not
13:56 mircea_popescu quite so.
13:57 mircea_popescu the fact that my definitions of imperial terminology prevail over the empire's own definition has nothing to do with the fact that before such a prevailing can take place, those definitions must actually exist and be given.
14:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's rather true. real vs conventional hierarchy. there's these girls who are slaves ; and then there's these poor but ambitious girls who wish to be slaves. all that pretense jazz.
14:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567838 << in point of fact we don't must use it, i've been happy with local name table for what, half a year ? not so much a matter of this as - it's there. might as well infect and "ruin" it for teh imperial idjits.
14:04 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 18:37 trinque is not opposed to doing something with DNS while we still must use it
14:04 asciilifeform y'know, usg.dns queries outsourced to archive.is box is still dns..
14:05 mircea_popescu that's not how it works. i got this local key-data store ; the box can't even connect via dns port.
14:05 asciilifeform just like orthodox j0000z still turn on lights, run lifts, on shabbat
14:05 asciilifeform even if not with own hands.
14:05 mircea_popescu and while it pretends otherwise, it has nfi what . means and would just as happily resolve "illegal" domaions.
14:06 Framedragger "nexus of hierarchy" connects for me (maybe on some superficial level only) to kyristor's "The only questions A0 is qualified to answer are those for which disputes can be settled entirely through majority vote of the entire DHT network" - where the dht network
14:06 Framedragger could be a set of particular (and particular only) peers. in any case, there must be a shared understanding among the users/elite as to how to proceed in face of naming conflicts.
14:06 Framedragger is my (naive probably) understanding.
14:06 asciilifeform Framedragger: note that this was the laughable piece, 'majority votes', i had nfi how to cut the knot of sybil etc.
↖
14:06 Framedragger aha.
14:07 asciilifeform Framedragger: presumed that 'nodes' would be mappable to people who knew one another in the flesh, invariably.
14:07 asciilifeform (a la fidonet)
14:07 mircea_popescu why the fuck would any of this matter ? in a discussion of "that guy" we may either load the table where he is written "shithead" or "sir", but in either case we gotta load a table for crying out loud.
14:07 asciilifeform (at any rate, i suspect that everyone here has a similar set of ~useless notes from last decade)
14:08 mircea_popescu i do not.
14:08 mircea_popescu i never bothered with ANY of this shit until bitcoin.
14:08 asciilifeform didntcha have a reddit-like thingie with wots etc ?
14:08 asciilifeform 'sinn feinn' or what was it
14:09 mircea_popescu no pgp involved for instance. but sure, i guess.
14:09 mircea_popescu "fain"
14:09 asciilifeform aaah
14:09 mircea_popescu means "cool" in dialect transylvanian romanian.
14:10 asciilifeform possibly there is another way to cut the namespace thing. question is 'does this hierarchical postulate increase or decrease buluceala ?'
14:10 asciilifeform buluceala, i will posit, is a Bad Thing, like car wrecks on public thoroughfare, or resistive loss in electric lines.
14:10 mircea_popescu to get back to the fidonet/various attempts to do independent dns etc - the very naive "symbol context" = X, be x "an identity" or whatever is a liability. you gotta just let the context be its own thing.
14:10 Framedragger i still have a reserved name ('indra', as in reflexive "indra's net" / indrajāla) for my mega decentralized permanent content concept, baked when i was maybe 18 yo lol. in fairness, "indra's net" is a l33t name that i hope i will use some time.
14:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i would say the gns as discussed on trilema drastically reduces it.
14:11 mircea_popescu (note that for the needs of this discussion - i know because grandfather told me is a nec plus ultram of buluceala. it's how people know the earth is flat.)
14:12 asciilifeform how about when coca cola shows up with tank division after pepsicola registers 'coke.com' ?
14:12 asciilifeform also less buluceala ?
14:12 mircea_popescu we're discussing cognition here not fizz.
14:13 asciilifeform if i knew how to separate cognition and fizz, i'd be dictating terms to republic of california from dirigible fleet.
14:13 mircea_popescu there's exactly nothing wrong for pepsicola and his friends to discuss pepsicola by "coke.com" in their own context, and CERTAINLY coca-cola doesn't have nor can aquire some mechanism to prevent his.
14:13 asciilifeform in global namespace a la dns -- they gotta have tank battle
14:13 mircea_popescu if tomorrow i wanna call barack obama hussein bahamas, i'll call him that and he can cry me a river over it.
14:14 mircea_popescu similarly fatties, gender-confuzeleds and any other special or specifiable interest group.
14:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform alternatively they could you know, just not credit THAT root and be done with it.
14:15 mircea_popescu i for instance don't credit the english-online-dictionaries opinions as to the meaning of english words.
14:15 mircea_popescu life hasn't ended, the sun still rises, trilema clearly benefits.
14:15 asciilifeform so now you have 10,000,001 'roots', which inevitably will happen when bahama throne falls, why not arrive at that situation ~deliberately~, rather than like (to steal from old mircea_popescu piece!) 'like teenage cowsie falls pregnant, willy-nilly'
14:16 mircea_popescu for the same reason "pua" is a horrible dating strategy.
14:16 mircea_popescu it's not deliberate in any useful sense, because some outcomes are not deliberable.
14:17 mircea_popescu (yes you can rape the woman instead, which is in this sense deliberate, but i daresay not the same thing)
14:17 asciilifeform building a throne hall when you know that the stable situation really consists of 10,001 margraves, imho is mistake.
14:17 mircea_popescu why ? the other margaves gotta copy SOMETHING.
14:17 mircea_popescu and who said they get to be margraves in the first place ?
14:17 mircea_popescu CAN THEY even build a hall convincingly ?
14:17 Framedragger so the notion of a local symbol frame/context will be retained inevitably, is that what you're saying mircea_popescu? (in which case i'd add that gns-the-implementation could even probably be used - on each interested user's machine - as a local name system. etc.)
14:17 Framedragger however, an agreed-by-everyone-who-matters symbol context would still be needed. (sorry if interrupting, trying to clarify for my own education.)
14:18 * asciilifeform favours of keeping the set of 'everyone who matters must agree on this' as small as possible (but not smaller).
14:19 Framedragger i guess that's a given assumption in #trilema
14:19 * asciilifeform bbl
14:20 mircea_popescu everyone-who-matters is a nonsensical reference point here.
14:21 mircea_popescu everyone-who-participates-in-this-conversation is the reference point. evidently, if we are talking about uh i dunno, star trek, the names have to be known and shared. spock can't be the woman with the nice ass. how does one join this conversation ? there's two options - either the usian school of "don't loo kit up - guess, fropm "context", what "it could be" or else - look it up damned it. to look it up, it has to be looked
14:21 mircea_popescu up SOMEWHERE. that's the gns.
14:21 mircea_popescu the imperial idiots implemented this as dns, which is stupid and braindamaged, but the implementation being flawed doesn't remove the fundamental reasons, which is why i say - read that damned rfc, the things i didn't mock are actually correct.
14:22 Framedragger right. how would the process of resolving conflicts in gns look like, though? (i'm just curious, i.e. question is well-intentioned, not troll-y)
14:22 mircea_popescu and from thence it all progresses - no, the place to look up needn't be "one across all the internet", because "otherwise postel thinks it'd be chaos".
14:23 mircea_popescu what postel thinks'd be chaos, much like what jwz thinks'd be chaos, much like clinton or whoever other of these niggers and jews thinks to be "chnaos" is actually human life.
14:23 mircea_popescu Framedragger what conflicts ?
14:26 Framedragger mircea_popescu: i guess in your view, perhaps no viable conflicts would arise in gns? say, two owners of two distinct pgp keys claiming ownership of "apple.com". some kind of due process is to take place, presumably
14:26 mircea_popescu no dude, when apple.com was registgered it was registered to a key.
14:26 mircea_popescu what conflicts ?
14:27 mircea_popescu anyway, ima go to buy chocolate and do things, so bbl we can continue.,
14:28 Framedragger mircea_popescu: i (or someone more credible, or whoever) registers "trilema.com" under their own leigt key. what nao?
14:29 Framedragger will need to change places in a few min, too.
14:30 Framedragger unless the latter kind of situation is to be covered by your clarification, to quote, "I imagine like any serious country, we first handle the claims of the elite privately. "
↖ ↖
14:30 Framedragger but then already it is not as simplistic as "whoever owns the key", no?
14:33 Framedragger also, http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#622 << http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-13#1566745 but this may be an issue in semantics/definitions only, i suppose.
14:33 a111 Logged on 2016-11-13 17:38 mircea_popescu: Framedragger note that i don't particularly see the value in restrictioning anything. in principle anyone should be able to register a domain for his bitcent - even if he puts no gpg key in there. he just won't be able to admin it, big whoop./
14:33 scriba Logged on 2016-11-15: [19:26:43] <mircea_popescu> no dude, when apple.com was registgered it was registered to a key.
14:33 * Framedragger bbl, too
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
15:39 pete_dushenski mod6: cheers :D pretty stoked to be one of the contest winrars, though /me also wonders whether saxes or yugos caught BingoBoing's fancy.
15:43 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567990 << ethereum also 'handled claims of the elite privately'.
15:43 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 19:30 Framedragger: unless the latter kind of situation is to be covered by your clarification, to quote, "I imagine like any serious country, we first handle the claims of the elite privately. "
15:43 asciilifeform it's a fundamentally zimbabwetronic thing.
↖
15:58 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-21#1557576 << see also.
15:58 a111 Logged on 2016-10-21 00:48 mircea_popescu: experience shows it's perfectly fine to have a philosopher king, however utterly suicidal to have a philosopher king's throne. bolt is fine, nut will kill you.
15:58 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: The one that didn't suck got the prize so no saxes.
16:02 BingoBoingo In every case of multiple submissions attached to the same btc address there was a joke that was great and a lesser joke.
~ 52 minutes ~
16:55 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/11/sec-chair-mary-jo-white-leads-exodus-of-unexpired-appointees-ahead-of-trumpreich/ << Qntra - SEC Chair Mary Jo White Leads Exodus Of Unexpired Appointees Ahead Of Trumpreich
~ 1 hours 25 minutes ~
18:20 ben_vulpes > charmyn
18:20 ben_vulpes cute
18:20 ben_vulpes also funny
18:21 ben_vulpes Framedragger: re: the "ownership" of trilema, i'd like to know who you suspect would even try to register trilema.com
18:21 ben_vulpes good lols, yes, but the identity attached to the registration action is going to have some splainin to do
18:22 ben_vulpes otherwise what's wrong with first-come first served?
18:22 mats no shortage of trolls in here
18:28 trinque ben_vulpes: there's one important distinction here. the gns has a WoT identity running it.
18:29 ben_vulpes mhm?
18:29 trinque who needs blanket policy when he's free to choose and I'm free to negrate him?
↖
18:29 ben_vulpes "nation of men"?
18:30 trinque aha
18:30 trinque he issues trilema to mp because mp will thump him otherwise
18:30 trinque and if he's unfair to elliot, grand.
18:30 ben_vulpes mhm.
18:31 ben_vulpes i for one think that names should be mined.
18:31 ben_vulpes see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-21#1557513
18:31 a111 Logged on 2016-10-21 00:28 ben_vulpes: the infinite to bitcoin's finite, if you will.
18:46 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=5694
~ 27 minutes ~
19:14 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/11/vilsack-attempts-to-whitewash-hussein-bahamas-rural-legacy/ << Qntra - Vilsack Attempts To Whitewash Hussein Bahamas Rural Legacy
19:15 BingoBoingo In other domain names https://www.greatagain.gov/
↖ ↖
19:23 BingoBoingo !~bcstats
19:23 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 439106 | Current Difficulty: 2.546201873040614E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 439487 | Next Difficulty In: 381 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 10 hours, 14 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
19:31 shinohai http://archive.is/hMBhc <<< tinder to include "fill-in-the-blank" gender option, turning it into a mad-libs of dating
19:32 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1568014 << that's what i thought as well - i queried along the same lines: "say someone with a valid GPG key rushes to register trilema.com in the Republican DNS before yourself. I suppose that is all well and good, and you negrating the key would only be appropriate in the instance of that person
19:32 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 23:29 trinque: who needs blanket policy when he's free to choose and I'm free to negrate him?
19:32 Framedragger pretending that they are MP?"
19:33 Framedragger and mp said "da fuck, I'm not going to support a dns system where some dork registered trilema", which confused me, so yeah, clarification needed, i think.
19:34 Framedragger because it would be great if WoT-gns worked like other WoT things, i.e., via the enforcement of WoT itself.
↖
19:34 BingoBoingo The guiding principle of Inequality demands that the first round of registrations in a domain system must necessarily be limited to the privileged.
19:35 BingoBoingo http://thesouthern.com/elections/upset-trend-felt-down-ballot-in-franklin-county/article_91c4a7c0-843e-5225-b8b7-4700d5bc5ba0.html << More picturesque rural scenes
19:35 Framedragger first round, okay, but other rounds supposedly follow later, and the conflict case can be replicated, i would think, and hence the system supports conflicts, structurally, which need to be addressed one way or another.. dunno.
↖
19:35 Framedragger bbl, sleep
19:36 * shinohai likes the cardinal virtue of unfairness ....
19:37 BingoBoingo Well if you really care about a name you prolly ought to claim it in the first round
~ 24 minutes ~
20:02 mircea_popescu Framedragger fcfs, what.
20:02 mircea_popescu the warning's out, whoever doesn't get in the wot is playing with fire.
20:02 mircea_popescu been the word on the street for what, 2+ years now.
20:08 shinohai http://www.networkworld.com/article/3141940/open-source-tools/super-mari-owned-startling-nintendo-based-vulnerability-discovered-in-ubuntu.html <<< bwahahaha
↖
20:10 mircea_popescu lmao
20:11 mircea_popescu i like how it's always "but nobody would do this because we already did and reasons"
20:12 shinohai pfffft ... I'm willing to bet there are plenty of people still running 12.04 ... could be slipped into a dirty emulator rom or somesuch
20:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567990 << that's exactly what i mean. gentlemen among gentlemen and otherwise fuck the peasants.
20:14 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 19:30 Framedragger: unless the latter kind of situation is to be covered by your clarification, to quote, "I imagine like any serious country, we first handle the claims of the elite privately. "
20:15 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567999 << no it's not. the fact that i extend you the courtesy to not register "loper-os" at the sunrise event doesn't mean jack shit in that context. ethereum tried to change things AFTER. hardly the same thing.\
20:15 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 20:43 asciilifeform: it's a fundamentally zimbabwetronic thing.
20:17 asciilifeform not the 'elite get handled' part. the manually-cranked part.
20:19 mircea_popescu i'm sorry ?
20:19 mircea_popescu all definitions are ultimately manual.
20:19 asciilifeform 'premining' is better analogy.
20:20 mircea_popescu hardly much of an analogy.
20:20 asciilifeform what is the motivation for 'civilians' (folx not in on the initial merry round of elite-handling) to subscribe ?
20:20 mircea_popescu i don't give a shit.
20:21 mircea_popescu i want something that works for me. if it works for others - good for them. if it doesn't, woe on them.
20:21 asciilifeform /etc/hosts worx for me..
20:21 mircea_popescu the measure of their fitness to survive is very strictly how well things that work for me work for them.
20:21 mircea_popescu alrighty then!
20:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-16#1568033 << i really don't see that past the "sunrise" so to call it there's any need to give a shit. i would not negrate anyone for registering "someone else's" domain after the system comes online and anyone can register whatever. i do think it's pretty idiotic to bring it online empty ; i won't support a system that tries that ; and i think the comparison with mining/premining is entirely w
↖
20:24 a111 Logged on 2016-11-16 00:34 Framedragger: because it would be great if WoT-gns worked like other WoT things, i.e., via the enforcement of WoT itself.
20:24 mircea_popescu ithout substance.
20:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-16#1568036 << what other rounds ?
↖
20:26 a111 Logged on 2016-11-16 00:35 Framedragger: first round, okay, but other rounds supposedly follow later, and the conflict case can be replicated, i would think, and hence the system supports conflicts, structurally, which need to be addressed one way or another.. dunno.
20:26 mircea_popescu currently, you can not register a gns item. at some point X, you will become able to. thenceforth, you will be able to. that's the whole timeline.
20:28 asciilifeform how is the 'able to' mechanically implemented ? because it is, or at least appears to be, promisetronic
20:29 mircea_popescu you send "register name x type y key z" to server. if it doesn't have x, it registers it. if it has x, it registers y provided z is the key registered for x.
20:30 asciilifeform 'register name x type y' is signed by z ?
20:30 mircea_popescu yes.
20:31 asciilifeform so far good; now say i want to ask 'what is y for this here x'
20:31 mircea_popescu you send a dns request, like they work now exactly.
20:32 asciilifeform what comes back ?
20:32 mircea_popescu same thing as from a dig
20:32 asciilifeform if it's ~exactly~ as now, then i get whatever verizon wants to substitute.
20:32 mircea_popescu so ask over a better protocol then,
20:32 asciilifeform or at&t, or whoever the fuck is upstream, zimbabwe telecom.
20:32 mircea_popescu dns as is is dns as is.
20:33 asciilifeform this is more or less an exact description of 'ask gossiptron to look up rating' except for the odd part where mircea_popescu wants it to be central or at least globally synchronized
20:34 asciilifeform why not instead 'i ask my wot what is y for this x, if anyone disagrees, there are problems'
20:34 mircea_popescu (ftr, re "does z sign", there's a beautiful tie-in for deedbot in here, because there's no reason i couldn't register straight from !!, and especially so if i have to pay something)
20:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion. it's of the nature of ask deedbot, not of the nature of "what does the lordship think"
20:35 asciilifeform if this were so airtight, blockchain would not be necessary in bitcoin.
20:35 mircea_popescu central server(s).
20:37 asciilifeform i.e. usg.dns but with new arse(s) in throne ?
20:43 asciilifeform by this logic, why not also make tmsr ntp ?
20:43 asciilifeform ... or even throw out bitcoin and replace with 'tmsr central bank', on server in mircea_popescu's martian dome.
20:43 asciilifeform possibly i am thick but i see same exact problem with all 3.
20:48 mircea_popescu i don't know what "this logic" is. you are currently using dns, yes ?
20:48 mircea_popescu "by this logic, why not also use windows".
20:48 mircea_popescu wtf.
20:53 mircea_popescu "People think that Web browsers are elegant computation platforms, and Web pages are light, fluffy things that you can edit in Notepad as you trade ironic comments with your friends in the coffee shop. Nothing could be further from the truth." << actually... that's exactly how it goes for me. and i mean that literally - i write straight html while hurr durring with teh girlz.
21:05 asciilifeform cannot speak for others, but i would like to use ~less~ dns and other centralized simon-says, not ~more~.
21:05 mircea_popescu what you'd like doesn't enter into this. you'll use the dictionary whether you like to or not.
21:06 asciilifeform copy the structure of the empire -- become the empire.
21:06 mircea_popescu yes, except dictionaries aren't the structure of the empire. they're the structure of thought.
21:07 asciilifeform they are also reasonably static.
21:08 mircea_popescu this is a debatable point. they are however fixed in context ; much like symbol tables for a running program say.
21:08 asciilifeform (not speaking of marvels like 'the big soviet encyclopaedia', which famously in '30s had 'updates' mailed in to subscribers, complete with razor blade to cut out undesirables)
21:09 * asciilifeform in whole life has only ever owned one encyclopaedia, 'britannica 1958', fished out of a skip as a boy, and incidentally it was the longest edition they made -- after that, only cuts. and the thing is surprisingly useful.
21:11 asciilifeform back upstack: i'm not convinced that 'the structure of thought' and 'updated regularly by remote hands' go together.
21:11 mircea_popescu you don't own a ru dictionary ?
21:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not any moar sadly.
21:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform your objection would be that if i one day decide to move trilema from ip x to ip y i thereby am confusing your thought process unduly ?
21:12 mircea_popescu trilema fucking exists as my act of will, wherever i say it is that's where it is. of course they go together.
21:13 asciilifeform though i ~have~ considered purchasing 'big soviet e.' in dead tree...
21:14 asciilifeform trilema yes.
21:15 asciilifeform but 'central servers' implies that i might also rely on mircea_popescu to say where, e.g., ben_vulpes's site, lives
21:17 asciilifeform system where i gotta ask mircea_popescu where lives trilema, but if looking for www of ben_vulpes, must ask ben_vulpes -- i have 0 quarrel with.
~ 32 minutes ~
21:49 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-16#1568043 << link moar LIBRARIES!1111
21:49 a111 Logged on 2016-11-16 01:08 shinohai: http://www.networkworld.com/article/3141940/open-source-tools/super-mari-owned-startling-nintendo-based-vulnerability-discovered-in-ubuntu.html <<< bwahahaha
21:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-16#1568025 << and holy fuck, is it just me or does 'change.gov' no longer resolve ?!
21:50 a111 Logged on 2016-11-16 00:15 BingoBoingo: In other domain names https://www.greatagain.gov/
21:51 asciilifeform ^^qntra..?
21:54 asciilifeform 'What’s more, exploit code requires an attacker to program in the arcane 6502 language designed for the NES processor, relying on the way the virtualized 6502 processor translates this code to deliver malicious instructions.' << cpu produced in greatest number in all of history of semiconductor --- 'arcane' ?!
21:54 asciilifeform i have 3 right on this desk
21:54 asciilifeform and i am not even mega-aficionado.
21:56 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rhuth/?raw=true << complete emulator.
21:56 asciilifeform ~1k lines.
21:56 asciilifeform (and ~cycle-accurate~. would be shorter if not.)
21:56 asciilifeform posted here for illustrative purposes.
21:57 trinque nope, no moar change.gov
21:57 asciilifeform rot in peace
21:57 asciilifeform and to think, obummer is still on the throne even.
21:57 asciilifeform but no moar hoap, change.
21:58 asciilifeform can anyone shed light on the precise moment of death ?
22:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what if you gotta ask deedbot ?
22:03 mircea_popescu you are currently asking deedbot "where to send this repuiblican tax again ?"
22:05 asciilifeform deedbot is bitcoin-anchored, neh ?
22:05 mircea_popescu so ?
22:05 mircea_popescu none of that conflicts with any of this.
22:05 mircea_popescu ;; ANSWER SECTION: change.org. 2446 IN A 104.16.5.13 change.org. 2446 IN A 104.16.4.13 ftr.
22:06 asciilifeform i get, ftr, same EGGOG as if i ask for tmsr.gov.
22:07 mircea_popescu added 2009-7-26 last updated 2016-6-19
22:07 asciilifeform odd.
22:07 mircea_popescu rua=amonzur@change.org if anyone cares.
22:09 asciilifeform whois.icann.org claims to have never heard of it now..
22:09 asciilifeform (it sees 'greatagain.gov' just fine)
22:10 asciilifeform i dun think mail to that addr will deliver any moar.
22:10 mircea_popescu :p
22:10 asciilifeform the death must be recent, working its way down the pyramid
22:10 asciilifeform perhaps only hours ago.
22:11 asciilifeform ~change.org~ resolves
22:11 mircea_popescu change.gov was never a thing afaik
22:11 asciilifeform !!google change.gov
22:11 deedbot http://change.gov/jobs/apply_app/ << Presidential Appointments Application | Change.gov: The Obama ... | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_transition_of_Barack_Obama << Presidential transition of Barack Obama - Wikipedia | http://change.gov/agenda/civil_rights_agenda/ << Civil Rights | Change.gov: The Obama-Biden Transition Team
22:11 asciilifeform was too.
22:11 mircea_popescu aok
22:12 mircea_popescu well nomoar obama jerbs so.
22:12 asciilifeform at least as late as the 2nd of this month, was alive.
22:22 mircea_popescu anyway, re-reading this dns thing, i'm not even sure what the objections are. i'm getting a morass of "why shouldn't all the things be made out of lead since lead works well for pencils" + vague extremisms trying to confuse a clear boundry (x didn't exist ; x exists) with random other things.
22:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for asciilifeform's enlightenment, describe plox why coin should not be made of the same 'lead' (simple scheme -- there are N coins at 'sunrise', and, e.g., mircea_popescu can move coin no. 1,555 to ben_vulpes by signing 'coin 1,555 now belongs to [key of ben_vulpes] at time T' etc
22:25 asciilifeform )
22:26 mircea_popescu this is ~how it works.
22:26 asciilifeform well not quite, there are the other annoying details of blockchain and mining.
22:26 mircea_popescu sure.
22:28 mircea_popescu why money should be p2p and dictionaries printed should be self-obvious, however.
22:28 asciilifeform dictionaries don't remote-update.
22:28 asciilifeform at least mine didn't.
22:28 mircea_popescu when you bought the next installment of whatever comic you read as a boy,
22:28 mircea_popescu your dictionary remote-updated.
22:29 asciilifeform now if i had read comic as a boy, i might grasp this.
22:29 mircea_popescu fine. when the ukrainians decided to be a nation, your dictionary also remote-updated.
22:29 mircea_popescu you decided to stay on the old branch, which is fine, but also unrelated.
22:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu is genius salesman, does he know
22:30 asciilifeform 'buy this vacuum, hose is the same one you were beaten to near death with in the police precinct last year'
22:30 mircea_popescu ironically, i am so intolerant i actually cross over into salesmanship.
22:30 mircea_popescu this is one of those chtulhu things
22:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform just because police sometimes beats people up with vacuum hose does not mean vacuums hoses should be banned. we're not french fucking bulldogs, what sort of dogreasoning is this.
22:31 asciilifeform lel who said 'banned'.
22:32 mircea_popescu well so then ?
22:32 asciilifeform just that it is not the most brilliant neutral selling point for asciilifeform in particular, that's all.
22:32 mircea_popescu that i can see.
22:34 asciilifeform i do not necessarily go with 'EVERYTHING must be made of blockchaintronium!111' thing. (if you recall this was actually subj of 1st conversation between mircea_popescu & asciilifeform , on the former's www, back in the day...) but i also dun see why to create a 'throne' if there is a simple means of not creating a throne and solving the problem.
22:34 mircea_popescu but there isn't ; and what's worse, there necessarily can not be.
22:35 asciilifeform was, e.g., 'namecoin', fatally broken in some algorithmic way ?
22:35 asciilifeform (vs simple neglect)
22:35 mircea_popescu yes.
22:35 asciilifeform remind me, how
22:35 mircea_popescu which is why we never adopted it.
22:35 asciilifeform (iirc it was hammered to death altcoin-style..?)
22:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform think for a second : the reason delegation exists is because a) people are idiots and b) the lists get long. in that order.
22:36 mircea_popescu now imagine if instead of splitting it up via delegation, you simply made the problem exponentially worse by introducing a gossip layer in there.
22:36 mircea_popescu which is ~what namecheap was.
22:36 asciilifeform namecheap?!
22:36 mircea_popescu im sory namecoin
22:36 asciilifeform ah
22:37 asciilifeform why not, say, standard bitcoin + 'telegraph'
22:37 mircea_popescu last thing you fucking need is for every dns root server to have to talk to EVERY ONE for (total domain data) ^ 1/2's worth
22:37 asciilifeform nah, don't need to 'talk to each one' specially, just look in your blocksxxx.dat for all sends to 1FuCkGoAtS..... and decode the payload.
22:37 mircea_popescu and not btc + "telegraph" for the same reason - horribru data exchange profile.
22:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, because updates.
22:38 asciilifeform updates happen as the blox come in, neh?
22:38 mircea_popescu finding out where trilema.com should point just became o(blocks)
22:38 asciilifeform inner transport layer can be same as what mircea_popescu described earlier, 'x y z'
22:39 mircea_popescu then if it is, whole thing should just be central server.
22:39 asciilifeform it isn't O(blocks), it's O(blocks i haven't seen yet)
22:39 asciilifeform you maintain local cache.
22:39 mircea_popescu client doesn't hold the whole fucking dns db holy shit.
22:39 asciilifeform eh even usg's db is what, 300M ?
22:39 mircea_popescu "fuck you mp, i hate what i deem thrones so much, you now can't do name resolution on anything without a tb hdd!"
22:40 asciilifeform btw here's an exercise, tally up the mass of all of the code on your linux box that is needed to get it to where it can query dns as we knew it
22:40 mircea_popescu and no, with trims it's well into the tb range.
22:41 asciilifeform also i have nfi re mircea_popescu but my /etc/hosts is not anywhere near 300kB much less mB.
22:41 mircea_popescu there's iirc ~300 mn DOMAIN NAMES.
22:41 mircea_popescu averaging w/e, half a dozen records each
22:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is a spurious objection, you'd still have to hold the whole blockchain to avoid o(blocks) in your insane anti-model.
22:41 asciilifeform how many belong to anything you might ever wish to speak to.
22:42 mircea_popescu you can't know in advance.
22:42 mircea_popescu wtf, "here's the two pages of the dictionary we estimate you may ever need"
22:42 asciilifeform also who the hell isn't a) already holding whole blockchain or b) connected to reliable and trusted box that IS
22:42 mircea_popescu because fuck you, that's why.
22:42 asciilifeform 'this house has a toilet' 'i'ma shit in this chair' 'waaai' 'fuck you that's why' ..?
22:43 mircea_popescu hey. dns is dns.
22:44 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Mebbe a roundup, it's just the empire's dns bookkeeping
22:46 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> remind me, how << Blockchain bloats to death, merge mined with Bitcoin so little incentive for miners to include any data... the reasons go on-anon
22:53 BingoBoingo So who is applying to the Trump Transition team as TMSR ambassador?
22:53 mircea_popescu you ?
22:53 * BingoBoingo nominates pete_dushenski
22:54 asciilifeform why not BingoBoingo ^
22:54 mircea_popescu they take foreign immigrant mexican latinos ?!
22:54 BingoBoingo I am applying to position of making grass green again!
22:54 asciilifeform also asciilifeform's pet will be applying
22:54 asciilifeform (why, i have nfi, imho nuttery)
22:55 mircea_popescu why shouldn't she ?
22:55 asciilifeform also ben_vulpes probably could but he has 'real job'
↖
22:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 0 good reason. (doesn't strike me as ideal work for extreme introvert folk who leave the house every month at best, but what do i know)
22:57 mircea_popescu bwahaha i just for the first time read about the whole javascript native prototype reset thing. Number.prototype.valueOf = function(){return 42;} srsly ?
↖
22:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform maybe she's looking to start a new life as grabee.
22:57 asciilifeform it must've been a 'fortran can and we can too!1111' sort of thing
22:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lel, was what i said
22:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes but if you get to inject code into any of these shits, the whole shebang where they get imported collapses. say you hijack google's tracking bs and put a sprinkling of that in there.
22:58 mircea_popescu hello end of shit-web.
22:58 asciilifeform well yes, you can set 2=1 etc
22:59 mircea_popescu lol DEFENSIVE SEMICOLON
22:59 mircea_popescu o god this paid off.
22:59 asciilifeform (incidentally js is 'expressive' enough to... 'rowhammer'. so why settle for small change, burn entire box)
23:03 BingoBoingo "Under Secretary of Agriculture for Research, Education, and Economics" << Is this pretentious enough title for a lord infiltrating the Great Again to apply for or should I just go Secretary of Agriculture?
23:03 mircea_popescu why not something actually appropriate ? TMSR envoy, something RSA, whatevs
23:03 asciilifeform if mr.t hires a d00d for this post who had ever actually agricultured, i for one will be mega-disappoint.
23:07 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Because that seems like a job for a Canadian and we are down to one of those.
23:10 mircea_popescu !!up yale
23:10 deedbot yale voiced for 30 minutes.
23:13 BingoBoingo Anyways if I am in the USDA maybe I can advance the cause of complete bermudagrass eradication?
23:17 mircea_popescu why not do something that makes sense ?
23:18 BingoBoingo Because still the evil empire.
23:18 * BingoBoingo will think on this
23:21 mircea_popescu welll... you're living in it...
23:22 BingoBoingo I guess I am.
23:23 BingoBoingo Holy shit I'm already an elder statesman of the Republic!
23:26 BingoBoingo Eh, I might as well.
23:29 trinque did I miss trump putting an add on craigslist or something?
23:29 trinque *ad
23:30 asciilifeform trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567700 and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-16#1568025
23:30 a111 Logged on 2016-11-15 16:59 asciilifeform: speaking of public amusement, word is that ~all~ 3,000 or so obummer 'staffers' are quitting. and now being replaced.
23:30 a111 Logged on 2016-11-16 00:15 BingoBoingo: In other domain names https://www.greatagain.gov/
23:31 BingoBoingo "Please describe why you hope to be a part of the President Elect's administration:" << my answer "Through working my program with my sponsor I believe I am ready to let go, let God, and offer myself completely to the work of summoning The Great Again."
23:31 trinque he shouldn't need that many people to turn off lights and lock doors.
23:32 * BingoBoingo figures what's the worst that could happen. It's been a few years since the FBI knocked on my door.
23:32 mod6 haha
23:32 mircea_popescu trinque there's that many for the ~same reason highschool dorks move in packs. WHAT IF A GIRL SAYS SOMETHING
23:32 mircea_popescu need each other for moral support.
23:33 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo if nothing else they might send valium.
23:33 trinque lol
23:33 trinque "I'm gonna go talk to Merkel. I'm gonna do it."
23:34 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Valium is bad for my spiritual condition.
23:34 mircea_popescu well trump doesn't have the obamaproblem. for one thing - grabbing. for the other, he has some practice with "on your back, mel"
23:35 mircea_popescu incidentally, how many fellows here present have discovered the wonder of the sixty degree fuck ?
23:36 asciilifeform which one
23:36 * trinque can think of two
23:37 asciilifeform 60 fits into 360 more even than 2x
23:37 trinque yeah but two I find interesting!
23:38 asciilifeform (and degrees between what, nose and toe? whose ?)
23:38 mircea_popescu you know, when woman (that's a) sufficiently toned and b) sufficently meaty, esp on ass and thighs) spreads her legs 60° with knees straight. so you can momentum-fuck her.
23:40 asciilifeform this may need illustration
23:40 mircea_popescu no ready way to illustrate sadly.
23:40 mod6 haha
23:40 trinque this plus arms held back, chick across side of bed or other surface
23:41 asciilifeform trinque: for some reason i pictured -- vertical
23:41 mircea_popescu but in general she acts as resonator.
23:41 mircea_popescu nono she's on her back.
23:42 asciilifeform (i've picture mircea_popescu & co. on circus trapeze ever since his tale of the semicircular loop thing)
23:42 mircea_popescu lol!
23:42 mircea_popescu no, as her thighs and pubic muscles lock she produces this assemblage which resonates somewhere around 1.3-1.7hz
23:43 mircea_popescu depends on weight. if she's too light it runs away far above what you can touch ; if more fat than a 2-3% or so it dampens.
23:43 mircea_popescu but there's a sweet spot, and boy is it sweet.
23:52 ben_vulpes legs parallel to bed or at an angle from that as well?
23:52 mircea_popescu peeerpendicular even
23:53 * mircea_popescu retrospectively realises he's made a pretty shitty description.
23:53 mircea_popescu also bbl.
23:55 ben_vulpes i thought this was kindergarten fuckatronix
↖
23:56 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-16#1568227 << slander
23:56 a111 Logged on 2016-11-16 03:55 asciilifeform: also ben_vulpes probably could but he has 'real job'
23:56 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: What are you applying for?
23:56 ben_vulpes diddly squat.
23:57 ben_vulpes devil will have to get off his arse and make me an offer for my time.
23:58 ben_vulpes see http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-27#1073374
23:58 a111 Logged on 2015-03-27 00:32 mircea_popescu: but that aside, it all boils down to the ancient (here and iirc on trilema too) "what's the devil have to pay you to love him" thing.
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