Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-05-15 | 2016-05-17 → ↓
00:42 BingoBoingo http://oglaf.com/oriel/
~ 7 hours 12 minutes ~
07:55 shinohai Now preserved on deedbot: http://wiki.deedbot.org/Best%20of%20MPOE-PR
07:58 shinohai $rated trinque
07:58 deedbot shinohai rated trinque 1 at 3650630430 << Thanks for the help w/ Gentoo
07:59 shinohai $rate trinque 2 http://wiki.deedbot.org/
07:59 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/d6268de9-077f-4ab7-b68d-6ba6af42c138/
08:00 shinohai $v 74F71E6F46DED7928F1F7847FECA68399346703155CE6A676A7496146460A9AF
08:00 deedbot shinohai updated rating of trinque from 1 to 2 << http://wiki.deedbot.org/
~ 42 minutes ~
08:43 davout "So for your Christopher Columbo detective skills, bravo, partially exposed for no reason, angry, sociopath lady!" <<< win
08:43 davout this guy has it: "Just start a new one. Call yourselves "the official foundation", register a domain and go."
08:44 davout (from https://bitcointa.lk/threads/calling-out-the-bitcoin-foundation-scam.273069/)
08:57 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466633 << there's nothing wrong with this "argumentum ad meta" per se. it's like two people, call them vincent and jules, riding down the street, and discussing whether houses they pass have or haven't a cellar. in principle, any house may or may not have one, and in principle one may be larger than an airport lot or large enough for http://65.media.tumblr.com/85c5637a36c690fa13df1d1f6042a96
08:57 a111 Logged on 2016-05-15 00:03 asciilifeform: i love it when mircea_popescu takes 'my' traditional side in argument - e.g., as seen here, argument ad metacocksucknsa
08:57 mircea_popescu d/tumblr_nefwzj0DU81tyw73vo1_1280.jpg
08:57 mircea_popescu yet some general considerations are possible. like, if the house's in a swamp, safe bet it has none. stuff like that.
08:57 mircea_popescu it doesn't ever speak to the PRINCIPLE of the cellar, however. it's always a discussion of the circumstances of the house.
09:02 mircea_popescu davout ahhh, memory lane.
09:04 mircea_popescu can't believe how much hanbot 's shirt bothered teh free & teh brave interneteer community.
09:07 mircea_popescu one of these days i should get a client that's not retarded enough to split urls.
09:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: might have to write it yourself
09:07 asciilifeform (i don't know of one)
09:07 mircea_popescu i was thinking, "and hopefully it's called gossipd"
09:08 asciilifeform well actually you need an irc client to operate (my draft of) gossipd
09:08 asciilifeform because i am not writing motherfucking guis.
09:09 asciilifeform it eats irc on localhost end.
09:09 mircea_popescu lol. i thought python had guis out the ying-yang
09:09 asciilifeform lel
09:09 asciilifeform what next, line-speed crypto in perl also.
09:10 mircea_popescu anyway. nothing wrong with that split. i guess eventually "Sane irc client" will be a project.
09:10 asciilifeform right next to 'sane os' on shelf
09:11 mircea_popescu not nearly the same weight, these two
09:11 asciilifeform you would be surprised.
09:12 mircea_popescu anyway, how are you enjoying life as a free agent ?
09:12 asciilifeform still waiting for my briefing, lulzily
09:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform hot damn, your idea of the irc protocol as implemented'd better not require an irc client the size of an os!
09:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: standard client
09:12 mircea_popescu that's what i mean.
09:17 asciilifeform irc is an ancient and simple protocol, and has pretty much 1 serious flaw
09:17 asciilifeform that is theoretically fixable via plugin (znc)
09:17 asciilifeform namely, inability to backdate messages
09:17 mircea_popescu should be resolved through pfs not through znc
09:18 asciilifeform what's pfs
09:18 mircea_popescu perfect forward secrecy :D
09:18 asciilifeform i dun see how.
09:18 mircea_popescu anyway. messages should be ordered by protocol, through the fact you can't decrypt the latter without the former.
09:19 asciilifeform this is a Bad Idea
09:19 asciilifeform elementarily ddosable by enemy
09:19 asciilifeform who can deny you one single packet
09:19 asciilifeform and perma-hose you until whatever next reset.
09:19 mircea_popescu i'd rather know someone can deny my packet.
09:20 mircea_popescu so we can route around that.
09:20 mircea_popescu gossipd is not server-client
09:20 asciilifeform well sure
09:20 mircea_popescu well so then.
09:21 mircea_popescu it'll give the "get the fuck out of the boondocks" some very real bite.
09:21 asciilifeform not very carrierpigeon-friendly.
09:21 mircea_popescu "bitch, you wanna live in the us, well... learn to ham radio then i guess ?"
09:21 asciilifeform my version works over message-in-a-bottle
09:22 mircea_popescu note that there's no hard limit here. suppose, and again, this is just a blackboard mock-up, not a technical implementation :
09:22 mircea_popescu message contains 10 keys. rule is that you use the lowest.
09:22 mircea_popescu then if i get a message with 3rd key and none with 1 or 2, i put it first
09:22 mircea_popescu if later i get a message with key 1, i put it before the 3rd key one.
09:23 mircea_popescu sort-of like tree-based rather than linear scheme
09:23 mircea_popescu (this being a problem first encountered by monks with books)
09:23 * asciilifeform brb, food
~ 20 minutes ~
09:43 shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/F6i
09:43 gribble The operation succeeded.
09:44 phf asciilifeform: ircv3 supports backdating (as well as "batch" message spool). i've hacked together backdating for erc, since znc supports it for spooling missed messages, but clients like irssi support it out of the box
09:44 phf http://ircv3.net/irc/
09:52 mircea_popescu actually, let me go into detail, why the hell not. ("because derps stalk the logs for examples of how x doesn't understand y" "and ?" "myeah.")
↖
09:52 mircea_popescu so : the genesis message, ie, the first communication between a pair (gossipd is a pairwise comms mechanism) includes 10 keys.
09:53 mircea_popescu message A (G3) shows up, if no A(G1) or A(G2) is present, it goes in first. if A(G1) shows up later, it goes before A(G3). which means the list gets reordered.
09:53 mircea_popescu then at the next level, if B(A5(G3)) shows up, it goes in next.
09:54 mircea_popescu once B(A3(G3)) shows up, it goes obviously before B(A5(G3)), so the list is now {A(G1) ; A(G3) ; B(A3(G3)) ; B(A5(G3))}
09:55 mircea_popescu if at this point a B(A8(G1)) should show up, it should be sorted somewhere in the list. but where ?
09:55 mircea_popescu this, i believe, should be a setting exposed to the user. wherever the fuck he wants it to be sorted.
09:56 mircea_popescu could have hard-lowest-level-first sortage, so it goes before A(G3) because it's off G1.
09:56 mircea_popescu could have a binary or decimal scheme where 3 * 2^1 + 5 is compared with 1 * 2 ^ 1 + 8
09:57 mircea_popescu in any case, however the list may be sorted by the peer, ITS peers get the list as it has it at that point.
10:03 mircea_popescu and if in THAT conversation it uses C(B1(A1)) to transmit {A(G1) ; A(G3) ; B(A3(G3)) ; B(A8(G1)) ; B(A5(G3))} then that's that.
10:04 mircea_popescu as a side-effect, the ability to extract political time out of this arrangement reduces to being well connected to well connected nodes that are connected to well connected nodes etc.
10:04 mircea_popescu similarily, the ACTUAL order of message, and the presence or absence of "j/k" messages in there can a) never be established beyond reasonable doubt and b) can only be usefully guessed by people. which is to say, well connected, intelligent nodes.
↖
10:05 mircea_popescu which is what gossipd is supposed to be.
~ 19 minutes ~
10:24 mircea_popescu so, to belabour this point : if users are u1, u2, u3 and u4 ;
10:24 mircea_popescu and in the relationship u1-u2 G is "Hai u2 howru" and then A1(G) is "fine ty.", and A5(G) is "urmom's a ho!" and A9(G) is "lol j/k",
10:24 mircea_popescu whereas in the relationship u3-u2 G is "Hello u2" and A1(G) is "Hi!" and B1(A1(G)) is "How goes ?" and C1(B1(A1(G)))) is
10:24 mircea_popescu "<from u1><to u2>Hai u2 howru
10:24 mircea_popescu <from u2><to u1>urmom's a ho!
10:24 mircea_popescu <from u2><to u1>lol j/k
10:24 mircea_popescu nothing much"
10:24 mircea_popescu then in the relationship u3-u1 whatever G may be A1(G) will be
10:24 mircea_popescu "<from u1><to u2>Hai u2 howru
10:24 mircea_popescu <from u2><to u1>urmom's a ho!
10:24 mircea_popescu <from u2><to u1>lol j/k
10:24 mircea_popescu <from u2><to u3>nothing much"
10:24 mircea_popescu at which point u1 can verify that HE didn't get the A5 or the A9. And he couldn't care less that it's a "network problem" or intentional withholding, much like MPEx doesn't gas what proxies do or don't do on the way.
10:24 mircea_popescu meanwhile u4 has absolutely nfi wtf went down there, u2 may be an asshole or fucking around or w/e.
10:25 mircea_popescu and there's sure as fuck no way for u4 to prove to u* that u2 insulted u1's mom, or didn't.
~ 18 minutes ~
10:43 mircea_popescu now something like a111 would run on an "observer" node, which is to say with the rule that it doesn't publish/pass lines not reported by the putative author. because those constitute...gossip.
10:43 mircea_popescu and the (otherwise spurious) concept of "a chan" reduces to "a list of specified broadcast recipients".
↖
~ 19 minutes ~
11:03 asciilifeform lel i went to see another one of those houses
11:03 asciilifeform the sheer filth
11:03 asciilifeform floor to ceiling !
11:04 mircea_popescu what houses ?
11:04 asciilifeform and entirely unusable, even were it to be cleaned with a flamethrower - as usual, the owner divided up the normal rooms into tiny garrets for students
11:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the kind for rent
11:04 mircea_popescu ah ah
11:05 mircea_popescu you gotta plox take pix and make a blogpost of this once.
11:05 mircea_popescu i really wanna see.
11:05 asciilifeform well i walked into this one with the contents still alive...
11:06 mircea_popescu hey, that's their problem. you're there on business, gotta have the pics to make a call.
11:07 mircea_popescu landlord can't show the house, his job to fix that. if he can show the house, you're taking pix.
11:07 asciilifeform next one i shoot pics of
11:07 asciilifeform what aspect is mircea_popescu interested in ?
11:07 mircea_popescu *thumbsup*
11:07 asciilifeform he's never seen pile of rubbish before ?
11:07 mircea_popescu i want the datapoint for my own lulz.
11:07 mircea_popescu "richest country in teh wreld"
11:07 mircea_popescu you have nfi what pile of people all over think "like in america" is a superlative.
11:07 asciilifeform i dunno of any country where students dun live in own filth
11:08 asciilifeform and it is not even that i need living near students for anything
11:08 mircea_popescu i dunno of any country where the students don't THINK ustardians live like in "friends".
11:08 mircea_popescu which is the point of interest.
11:08 asciilifeform it is just that it is ~impossible to rent a house anywhere else !
11:08 mircea_popescu ~cunt.
11:08 mircea_popescu studends are, at least in most of the world, the people who value their cunt closest to its true value.
11:09 asciilifeform hilariously, when speaking with (now former) colleagues, 'where do you live?' 'in a house' 'but you said you rent...' 'right, i rent a house' 'you mean, a room in a house?' 'no...' 'what, whole floor??' 'no...'
11:09 mircea_popescu lol
11:09 asciilifeform it is apparently a 'martian' thing to do.
11:10 mircea_popescu i dunno, i rented all sorts.
11:10 asciilifeform yeah but yer not a workerbee and dun hang out with same
11:10 mircea_popescu who the fuck BUYS oceanfront property for instance. other than a hedge fund / the miami mahjongg club
11:10 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu said 'i rent a boeing' folks would believe
11:10 mircea_popescu uh...
11:11 mircea_popescu NOBODY owns a boeing today. i'm pretty sure.
11:11 mircea_popescu even fucking GE sold its own fucking machinery to GF to lease it from them
11:11 asciilifeform lower tco
11:11 mircea_popescu exactly.
11:11 asciilifeform (unlike workerbee in house)
11:12 mircea_popescu hm ? renting house is exactly the same, lower cost to carry.
11:12 mircea_popescu we had this in the log in detail.
↖
11:13 asciilifeform in usgschwitz there are massive subsidies to folks who buy the thing
11:13 mircea_popescu subsidios truchos.
11:13 mircea_popescu the derps THINK they're getting subsidies. not so.
11:13 asciilifeform (e.g., whole thing is subtracted from tax)
11:13 asciilifeform the derps are getting raped on interest
11:14 asciilifeform i am speaking of folks buying
11:14 asciilifeform y'know, with MONEY
11:14 mircea_popescu if you have that money, you find a partner and start a real estate corp, and go rent yourself a house.
11:14 mircea_popescu wtf.
11:15 mircea_popescu "women may not hold money" doesn't mean something about women. it means something about money, ie, capital is to be deployed in business not in the household.
11:15 asciilifeform well the interesting bit in this and previous threads is that 'i want to rent a house' is almost 'i want to rent reactor' in usa.
11:15 mircea_popescu the fact that you can't find a decent cofee house at north pole does not signify you should give up the cappuccino habit.
11:16 mircea_popescu it signifies you shouldn't be at the north pole.
11:22 danielpbarron speaking of which I've resolved to stop eating at a local cafe/brunch place because half the time they can't be arsed to use the espresso machine, sometimes claiming that it's 'broken'
11:23 danielpbarron i think i'm the only one that even orders cappuccinos there; everyone else is content to drink the pre-made 'coffee' from those self-serve pump stations
11:36 phf asciilifeform: there are some nice whole house rentals next to walter reed research institute in silver spring. they converted "national park seminary" to condos, can find whole house for 1,6k or so
11:37 asciilifeform i dun like rowhouses.
11:37 phf they have standalones
11:37 asciilifeform it was a great place tho, had spiffy ruins
11:37 asciilifeform i used to work right in that institute.
11:37 phf man, i go there for massage, and it makes me heart ache, all those beautiful ruins, "modernized"
11:38 asciilifeform barbaric, aha
11:38 phf 1,6k is for a standalone, i'm sure rowhouses are cheaper. they have a few standalones for sale, dc- "cheap" 600k or so
11:38 asciilifeform lel
11:40 phf i was trying to buy one of the larger buildings to renovate for company's office, they wouldn't sell. i'm sure they can make bank on condos
11:48 asciilifeform just about everywhere i go, i see old buildings being bulldozed to make room for condos, built of matchsticks and cardboard, where ~80% of the units stay vacant for years after the thing opens
11:48 asciilifeform straight bezzle play.
11:48 asciilifeform nobody actually needs to ~live~ in these, for the builder to make bank.
11:49 asciilifeform from the pov of the bezzle artists, empties are just as useful as filled units, they help to prop up price.
11:49 asciilifeform without generating any expense
11:49 asciilifeform (nobody needs to maintain empty thing)
12:04 jurov "Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Takes $1 Billion Position in Apple" lol the end is nigh!
12:11 asciilifeform phf: i was intrigued enough to investigate - quotes are more like 2.5k
12:14 asciilifeform jurov: link ?
12:15 ben_vulpes danielpbarron: there's nothing wrong with a well-used airpot in theory, but it does require dumping the remains every ~10 minutes for a fresh pot. yes, this means that low-volume shops cannot serve good coffee from an airpot, but since when has that stopped anyone.
12:19 danielpbarron idk i'm kinda of the opinion that if i'm gonna have coffee at a place, it should be served into a ceramic mug by a waitress and come with free refills
~ 16 minutes ~
12:35 ben_vulpes kinda orthogonal
12:35 ben_vulpes most places with waitresses, ceramic mugs and delivery use an air pot anyways
12:36 ben_vulpes that is *never* refreshed, only more swill poured atop
12:47 jurov asciilifeform: paywalled http://www.wsj.com/articles/buffetts-berkshire-takes-1-billion-position-in-apple-1463400389
12:48 jurov http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/16/investing/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-apple/index.html lol and they are interested in yahoo, too?
12:52 asciilifeform soooo usg finally made the old man 'offer he couldn't refuse'.
~ 20 minutes ~
13:12 phf asciilifeform: hmm, 1,6 quote is from my massage therapist, who's got two places for rent in that block
13:13 phf generally i suspect you'll have better luck with renting from owners, rather than mgmt companies, since later can allow for dead souls
13:21 asciilifeform phf: yeah, the former is what i do now
13:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> straight bezzle play. << the world over, this.
13:36 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes yes, this means that low-volume shops cannot serve good coffee from an airpot <<< girl had one of those filter drip things all her life. the unit she had broke, over weekend, and i taught girl to make turkish boiled coffee. then today "did you want to replace your drip thing ?" "umm... nah".
13:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: so 'north pole' is ~everywhere.
13:37 mircea_popescu jurov holy shit, yahoo, the mother of all worthless "internet companies". at least activesoft has or maybe had some competent garbagemongers.
13:38 mircea_popescu i subscribe to "the end is nigh" theory, the usg dept of berkshire convened the rich kids for a visit over with obama and they all agreed to donate moar money to the nazi party.
13:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform do you recall that ridiculous piece ? somehow nobody noticed it.
13:38 asciilifeform i do
13:39 asciilifeform they have these regularly tho
13:39 mircea_popescu didn't exist during bush
13:40 asciilifeform buf was prolly told, one way or another, 'you will invest. if you do, we will print 2x and you can have that, so long as you don't buy turkeys. if you do not, there will be problems' etc.
13:40 mircea_popescu well, either that or the fsf.
13:40 mircea_popescu he's old and rather senile by now.
13:40 mircea_popescu so how did the quote go...
13:41 asciilifeform yah quite likely the dealings were with his bob beck.
13:41 mircea_popescu something about the old chap being too "out of touch" for "day to day" decisionmaking
13:42 asciilifeform that was re: rms's bobbeck iirc.
13:42 mircea_popescu yes what i meant. berkshire got fsf'd.
13:42 asciilifeform likely - long ago.
13:42 mircea_popescu and incidentally bobbeck sounds like exactly the right word for it.
13:43 asciilifeform aha, pronounced бобик
13:43 asciilifeform (approx - street dog)
13:43 mircea_popescu to bobbeck, to attach a subservient aparatchick to the sort of entreprise lords might have either heard of or outright respect, so as to puppet it along the nazi cause.
13:43 ben_vulpes unrelatedly, amazon has buried the ingestion point for ssh pubkeys in a truly obscure corner of their systems
13:45 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes what do they normally use ?
13:45 ben_vulpes rsa if i understand your question
13:46 ben_vulpes they want to /give you the keypair/
13:46 mircea_popescu no i mean, other than ssh keys
13:46 mircea_popescu eh.
13:46 mircea_popescu oh i c. bwahahaha. makes sense dunnit.
13:46 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: can't see how aws could be made worse than it is by ~them giving you keypair~
13:47 asciilifeform it isn't like you aren't sitting in vm kolhoz already.
13:47 ben_vulpes i seek to entertain, what
13:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform if they give you keypair they can sign imaginary connection sessions from you. if not, not.
13:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: still can
13:47 asciilifeform if you park private key in kolhoz
13:47 asciilifeform regardless of who generated it
13:47 mircea_popescu you park pubkey.
13:48 ben_vulpes it's trivially swapped out once in the machine
13:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not how ssh worx
13:48 asciilifeform server has own private.
13:48 mircea_popescu how not ? i put my pubkey in server.
13:48 mircea_popescu well yes, with which it signs ITS stuff.
13:48 asciilifeform what does having your pub in the box do ?
13:49 mircea_popescu that if i don't say "obama is a whore's dog" over ssh, aws can't produce a correctly signed token for "mp said obama is a whore's dog" over ssh.
13:50 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467146 <<< link? for a friend
13:50 a111 Logged on 2016-05-16 15:12 mircea_popescu: we had this in the log in detail.
13:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the keys are only used in the authentication. so what gets said afterwards is 'promise', not 'protocol'
13:51 asciilifeform in fact the ssh pile of shit is every bit as malodorous as ssl.
13:51 asciilifeform re mouseholes.
13:53 mircea_popescu davout http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-07#1338673
13:53 a111 Logged on 2015-12-07 23:34 mircea_popescu: and if you want actual numbers, i just got a coupla girlies an apt. the sale value would have been i guess 160-170k or so. the monthly rent is 750. the first month, the washing machine went, and the owner replaced it. the next month, ac went (brother was that an incredible pos job wow), owner replaced it. so far owner's been making 0 from his property.
13:54 mircea_popescu there's also a large one discussing with some guy his idea of bootstrapping on a shoestring a landlord governing body, because he's a 20yo brogrammer and that's how governance works in his mind.
13:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the 'rentalstarter' thing ?
13:55 mircea_popescu something
13:55 mircea_popescu lessee
13:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-18#1301731
13:56 a111 Logged on 2015-10-18 14:25 mircea_popescu: so let me get this straight, you want to give people too poor to litigate, too stupid / desocialized to talk to the landlord and too scared to act the option "you can either pay 100 to the landlord as deposit or 300 to me and unlike the landlord I PROMISE to give it back (maybe), except im not anywhere near you and you can't burn my house down" ?
13:57 mircea_popescu whole day was ~dedicated to hashing out that steaming pile of 20yo lulzideas.
13:58 asciilifeform re slumlords, i am still reeling from what i saw today
13:58 mircea_popescu they should whip them.
13:58 mircea_popescu seriously, wtf slum lord is that, doesn't rape the girls and whip the boys ?!
13:58 asciilifeform washed, and still feel dirty from having gone in that reactor zone for 10 min.
13:58 mircea_popescu losers.
13:58 asciilifeform no gurlz there.
13:58 asciilifeform they typically live in the nicer places
13:58 asciilifeform (tower flats)
13:59 asciilifeform and besides, what does a 80 y.o. ru bloke (landlord) need to whip for ?
13:59 asciilifeform all he wants is bags of dough, to pay for his titanium hearts or whatnot
14:00 davout mircea_popescu: tyvm
14:00 mircea_popescu myeah. "longer life expectancy" turns out to be a horrible idea.
14:01 asciilifeform i will add one detail that mircea_popescu may find interesting. amidst the piles of rubbish from floor to ceiling, the black mold in the single solitary toilet, carpet of stinking laundry, etc. there was a, i shit thee not, ~2metre tv in every room.
14:01 mircea_popescu wait, how many people ?
14:01 asciilifeform 4 paying customers, iirc.
14:01 mircea_popescu one bathroom for 4 people !?
14:01 asciilifeform aha
14:02 asciilifeform most of'em were in bed, had to be rousted
14:02 asciilifeform i say 'paying' because it is quite rare for such a house to have only the paying ones
14:02 asciilifeform usually there are phriends/fucktoys/family/etc
14:03 asciilifeform understand, also, what kind of structure it was
14:04 asciilifeform these are classical usaschwitz houses with hollow wooden walls.
14:04 asciilifeform such cavities, of course, cannot be cleaned.
14:04 asciilifeform the mold in the toilet is there to stay, until the place is bulldozed.
14:04 asciilifeform the kitchen will always have its unique smell.
14:04 asciilifeform etc
14:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: incidentally, i only rarely visit such places, because - while i can outbid 4 or 5 of the wretches - i cannot outbid 10, and that is closer to the typical number
14:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform one place i rented here contained ~6 local derps at the time ; now inhabited by two.
14:09 mircea_popescu apparently worldwide phenomena.
14:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yeah but since they were not american boiz you prolly didnt have to irradiate the place to sterilize after
14:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> the mold in the toilet is there to stay, until the place is bulldozed. << nah, copper sulphate will wipe it.
14:11 asciilifeform from inside wall?!
14:12 asciilifeform recall, they also all have forced air ducts
14:12 asciilifeform (nothing else has been built since '40s)
14:13 mircea_popescu even that, yes. this is a whole profession, buying property managed into the dirt by idiots and making it shine. pays pretty well, too, most hands-on types end up doing that.
14:14 mircea_popescu but, as with all things, nobody's going to bother putting in the effort for a shitty apt.
14:14 asciilifeform naturally.
14:14 mircea_popescu too many detached family houses on two levels waiting for the treatment.
14:14 asciilifeform that incidentally was the type of structure i was looking at
14:15 asciilifeform but nobody does it for rentals that will be promptly shat in again by the usual clientele.
14:15 mircea_popescu there's stories in the us proletcult folklore about the regime deciding to socially integrate gypsies, ending up with indoor fireplace fed from what used to be the parquet...
↖
14:15 asciilifeform it is sometimes done when converting to 'civilian use'
14:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: stories of this in ru also.
14:16 mircea_popescu apparently this is a permanent item, usg-born orcs forcibly integrated by usg, revert to the tribal arrangements that are adequate to their needs and capacities.
14:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> but nobody does it for rentals that will be promptly shat in again by the usual clientele << rent control ruins real estate huh.
14:16 asciilifeform another detail, since i lack photo, of what makes these dwellings stomach-churning, is the american custom of 'wall to wall carpet'
14:16 asciilifeform it is glued to the floor
14:17 mircea_popescu oh that's insufferable.
14:17 asciilifeform ~uncleanable
14:18 asciilifeform i was very lucky, 2y ago, to find a place with an actual wooden floor.
14:18 asciilifeform it is a rarity.
14:18 mircea_popescu actually most of the stuff ustartds do these days is insufferable. used to be that if you wanted proper floor spacing and decent sized fridges you had to go to the us. which is how people ended up in california.
14:18 mircea_popescu but these days... wtf is with the paper walls, and the attendant fire sprinklers and fire drills and whatnot ? you couldn't pay me to live in a place with firesprinklers.
14:19 asciilifeform i dun think i have ever lived in a place with fire sprinklers
14:19 asciilifeform possibly uni dormitory had some
14:21 mircea_popescu also wtf is with the lulzvoltage ; and with the poorly provisioned water and often inexitent gas pipes. etc.
14:21 mircea_popescu seriously, "water saving shower" ?! because why, i'm in palenque ?
14:21 asciilifeform we did the lulzvoltage thread
14:21 mircea_popescu just saying, by now they're doing EVERYTHING wrong.
14:21 asciilifeform and the crippling of the shower is done in the head, not the house pipe
14:21 mircea_popescu bad lightbulbs ; bad flooring, bad carpeting bad walls bad you name it.
14:21 asciilifeform trivially circumvented by screwing in your own
14:22 mircea_popescu electric stoves are ok ; but they better be gas-stove standard, not a lulzy teapot warmer + microwave.
14:22 asciilifeform (you couldn't pay me to use a standard american shower head, the kind with no hose)
14:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and no bidets.
14:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: these are ~unknown in english world
14:22 mircea_popescu the insanity of having fixed-above-head showerhead and no bidets makes me fucking wonder how exactly do ustards eat cunt.
14:23 asciilifeform i was reading a treatise re indoor fixtures, by british fella, circa 1960, and he described how bidet was installed in a few london hotels at one tim
14:23 asciilifeform e
14:23 asciilifeform (early 1900s)
14:23 mircea_popescu gotta give the gurlz SOME WAY to wash ffs.
14:23 asciilifeform and promptly ripped out
14:23 asciilifeform after 'outrage, scandal'
14:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i have genuinely nfi how - and whether - these people wash.
14:26 mircea_popescu let's talk of something else. the richest korea makes my stomach turn.
14:28 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467105 << phf modelled this (as did i) - it is trickier than it sounds
14:28 a111 Logged on 2016-05-16 14:43 mircea_popescu: and the (otherwise spurious) concept of "a chan" reduces to "a list of specified broadcast recipients".
14:28 asciilifeform somewhere there was a thread...
14:29 asciilifeform summary: it takes active work to avoid a situation where you are continuously bombarded with fragments of conversations
14:29 asciilifeform sorta like usenet in its twilight days
~ 44 minutes ~
15:13 mircea_popescu myeah.
15:14 mircea_popescu that work = your wot, eh ?
15:14 mircea_popescu gossip irl works exactly the same way, if you just talk to the woman your parents picked and your cousins, it's suicideware.
15:15 mircea_popescu if however you pick the whores you entertain carefully, it's empowering to a degree uknown by nazi derps.
15:15 mircea_popescu in fact, their derpy "secret services" universally aspire (and universally fail) to be exactly this.
15:17 asciilifeform yeah but there is a sharp edge:
15:17 asciilifeform let's express in proper mathematical pieces,
15:17 phf how do you deal with situation of in-wot A talking to out-wot B?
15:17 asciilifeform if your wot is not a ~clique~, yer hosed.
15:18 asciilifeform i have killed a great deal of paper working on a clean solution to this.
15:20 asciilifeform phf: in the algo proposed by mircea_popescu, you will hear the tx side (A sends to me,x,y,z,..,B) but not the replies (B sends to A,...his wot...,)
15:20 asciilifeform exactly like a usenet group in 1995 where you have a good chunk of the participants killfiled
15:26 mircea_popescu phf there's no such thing.
15:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no. you can not possibly hear the talk to and from outsiders. you just discard all that.
15:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the only way there can 'be no such thing' is if your wot is a clique.
15:27 mircea_popescu no, just, you filter it out. if you want to hear what your friend A says to B, must make B your friend.
15:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you certainly ~do~ hear message that is to you,x,y,z,hitler unless specced otherwise
15:28 mircea_popescu obviously, nothing prevents you from running firehose mode. but , just like wireshark makes no guarantee as to the literary or poetic merits of random wire captures,
15:28 mircea_popescu this also.
15:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there is no such thing as "to X Y", gossipd being a pairwise protocol.
15:29 asciilifeform precisely
15:29 asciilifeform but consider this thread
15:29 mircea_popescu so if you want to say "hi" to 5 people, you say hi 5 times to one at a time.
15:29 mircea_popescu what about this thread am i considering ?
15:29 asciilifeform when i say '<asciilifeform> but consider this thread' it is not specified protocolically to ~whom~ i said it
15:29 mircea_popescu but it is.
15:30 asciilifeform how?
15:30 mircea_popescu if you say it in #trilema which is an alias for (me you and phf) then you said it 3x : once to each
15:30 mircea_popescu if you said it in pm to me... then you say it once, to me.
15:31 mircea_popescu and if i'm also friends with phf, phf will report to me having heard you say "hi".
15:32 mircea_popescu but if i'm not, i'll never know. the situation where i'm friends to you, and you say hi to me in a channel of 10`000 people i don't know ; and the situation where i'm friends with you and you say hi to me in a pm are identical.
15:32 mircea_popescu and it's how things work irl, also. that they don't work that way online is because online is fucktarded beyond conception.
15:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where on planet gossipd do we find equivalent of ' mircea_popescu and asciilifeform in a channel of 10,000 people they don't know '
15:36 asciilifeform ?
15:36 mircea_popescu girl calls you on the phone. who's there with her ?
15:36 mircea_popescu ex bf ? mother ? hitler ? do you care ?
15:37 asciilifeform in this case could be 10 hitlers, but we aren't tuning them in
15:37 asciilifeform so answer is 'just gurl'
15:37 mircea_popescu group of girlies walking down the street, you see one you like, and talk to her. the other idiots you don't care about giggle or w/e. so ?
15:37 mircea_popescu i'm just saying, the way communication works irl is precisely like contemplated gossipd scheme, and exactly NOT like bbs/irc/webetc.
15:38 mircea_popescu those are modelled after stuff like academic communication ; which pointedly is not speech
15:38 mircea_popescu (except englishtards, being idiots as awlays, use "speech" to denote precisely not-speech, ie writ. precisely because they used writ for some legalese arcana five century prior. but we digress.)
15:40 mircea_popescu (but since we digressed - and this ineptitude leads them into all sorts of lulz. for instance, SPEECH was protected by constitution. as in, the activity of gossipd. not WRIT, such as an imaginary right to publish slander. etc.)
15:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not making any sense ?
15:49 asciilifeform it does.
15:49 mircea_popescu aok
16:04 mircea_popescu and in other news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/2cfe374f716d192499c74962ce6516a7/tumblr_n8k6j7jjMO1richhno1_1280.jpg
16:11 BingoBoingo <phf> 1,6k is for a standalone, i'm sure rowhouses are cheaper. they have a few standalones for sale, dc- "cheap" 600k or so << lol, divide by 3 or 4 for cheap here
16:11 deedbot [Qntra] Countable ClassicCoin Nodes Dropping - http://qntra.net/2016/05/countable-classiccoin-nodes-dropping/
↖
16:23 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the tax-declared value of the thing i am sitting in presently is ~250k
16:23 asciilifeform so 'divide by...' also here.
16:24 BingoBoingo lol, divide by 5 or 6 here
16:25 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467378 << i must point out that, at least on same nazi site, the count of trb nodez is also record low - 5
16:25 a111 Logged on 2016-05-16 20:11 deedbot: [Qntra] Countable ClassicCoin Nodes Dropping - http://qntra.net/2016/05/countable-classiccoin-nodes-dropping/
16:26 asciilifeform and i recognize precisely 2 on this list which do not daily flicker in and out
16:26 asciilifeform and they are both mine.
16:26 asciilifeform and one of these 5 is even a shitazon node
16:26 asciilifeform which does not get to peer with mine.
16:26 asciilifeform what gives, folks
16:26 asciilifeform is it so hard to stand up a node ???
16:32 BingoBoingo More a challenge to get 21.c0 to count it
16:37 asciilifeform they count mine, wut
16:38 BingoBoingo For some reason the won't count mine
16:38 asciilifeform whats yer uptime
16:38 BingoBoingo And I dun care to fix it.
16:39 BingoBoingo About 36 hours now, previously a couple months.
16:39 ben_vulpes what is this website that counts nodes
16:45 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99
16:45 ben_vulpes i'm supposed to give a shit about 21.co?
16:45 asciilifeform nope
16:45 asciilifeform there isn't another afaik, tho.
16:46 ben_vulpes haven't we had this thread before, of that the network is not paricularly enumerable, and with the malleability of version strings that counting them is somewhat less than pointless?
↖
16:46 asciilifeform the thing appears to honestly count nodes so long as they advertise >= 0.8.
16:48 trinque deedbot.org isn't on there, was
16:49 trinque and it's up
16:50 trinque though as I check its log, there is a great deal of "socket no message in first 60 seconds"
16:51 trinque it is however keeping up with the blockchain, so perhaps I've got say... a curated connection to the network :p
16:56 trinque or perhaps their scanner issues heathen commands
17:02 asciilifeform trinque: quite a bit of blackhole on my nodez, since more or less the beginning
17:03 asciilifeform 21's thing does not issue heathen commands
17:03 asciilifeform or my nodes (which drop all heathens) would not register.
17:06 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467401 << it is rather like saying that it is pointless to ask 'are you a girl', because folks might lie
17:06 a111 Logged on 2016-05-16 20:46 ben_vulpes: haven't we had this thread before, of that the network is not paricularly enumerable, and with the malleability of version strings that counting them is somewhat less than pointless?
17:08 asciilifeform as for whether the network is enumerable, the ~public~ subset - the kind of node which answers to all-comers, e.g., my nodez - certainly are.
17:08 asciilifeform the quasi-mythical 'seeeekrit evidence' nodes which connect directly to mines, etc. - not.
↖
17:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform lol trb nodes still oom. darn.
17:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in theory
17:22 asciilifeform (i worked out hard bounds, long ago, see l0gz)
17:23 asciilifeform (in practice, trb node on a decent box like dulap can run for a very long time - years - without reset)
17:23 ben_vulpes dun think mine ooms terrifically often. not in my personal memory at least.
17:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform funny, of the 5, two are kind-of behind also
17:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: most of the time there is 1-2 cable modem things in there aha
17:26 mircea_popescu well, i have no idea why my nodes are offline. i also have not the time/patience to check up on them daily like they were carrying my child or some shit.
17:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: typically when i run a serious box i have a dedicated display for its health stat
17:26 mircea_popescu from one of the afflicted systems
17:26 mircea_popescu ├─screen─┬─2*[bash───su───bash───bitcoind]
17:26 mircea_popescu ├─bash───pstree
17:26 mircea_popescu └─bash───su───bash───bitcoind───5*[{bitcoind}]
17:27 mircea_popescu so i'm guessing the restarter failed in some speshul manner.
17:27 asciilifeform we dun have a restarter
17:27 mircea_popescu "we".
17:27 asciilifeform well my item didn't
17:27 asciilifeform i have nfi what mircea_popescu wrote.
17:27 asciilifeform maybe his nodes need new plutonium
17:28 mircea_popescu apparently.
17:28 mircea_popescu o ffs. neither the 216. nor the 173. that this node's startline wants it to addnode actually exist in that list.
17:28 mircea_popescu no fucken wonder.
17:29 mircea_popescu so what's the officialdom now, 46.166 54.187 an' what, 72.83 ?
17:29 asciilifeform the former is old dulap iirc
17:29 asciilifeform the latter - old mpb node spoken of last year
17:29 asciilifeform well i personally answer for
17:30 asciilifeform dulap (nosuchlabs.com, but recall we have no dns, it is 46.166.165.30 for trb purposes)
17:30 asciilifeform and zoolag
17:30 asciilifeform 72.83.9.196
17:44 mircea_popescu incidentally, whatever site is only going to know about those nodes that even talk to it.
17:45 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
17:45 asciilifeform hence http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467414
17:45 a111 Logged on 2016-05-16 21:08 asciilifeform: the quasi-mythical 'seeeekrit evidence' nodes which connect directly to mines, etc. - not.
17:55 mircea_popescu aite, im bringing a coupla more online / in the open.
17:56 asciilifeform neato!
17:58 * mircea_popescu waves at trinque 's
17:59 trinque yo!
17:59 mircea_popescu see alf, tmsr is a complaint-driven entity. bitch and thou shalt receive
17:59 mircea_popescu now go forth, and use this power for good.
~ 2 hours 43 minutes ~
20:42 mircea_popescu $up RBLrbl
20:42 deedbot RBLrbl voiced for 30 minutes.
20:45 asciilifeform ;;later tell BingoBoingo https://theintercept.com/snowden-sidtoday << qntra ?
20:45 gribble The operation succeeded.
20:45 * asciilifeform has been looking, it appears to be - like the other snowdeniana - mostly rubbish
20:49 asciilifeform 'Consistent with the requirements of our agreement with our source, our editors and reporters have carefully examined each document, redacted names of low-level functionaries and other information that could impose serious harm on innocent individuals, and given the NSA an opportunity to comment on the documents to be published (the NSA’s comments resulted in no redactions other than two names of relatively low-level employees that
20:49 asciilifeform we agreed, consistent with our long-standing policy, to redact). ' << aahahahahaha
20:49 asciilifeform 'we asked hitler first!'
20:49 asciilifeform sop for the greenwalders.
20:50 asciilifeform 'There are also documents in the archive that we do not believe should be published because of the severe harm they would cause innocent people (e.g., private communications intercepted by NSA, the disclosure of which would destroy privacy rights; and documents containing government speculation about bad acts committed by private individuals (typically from marginalized communities), the disclosure of which would permanently destroy
20:50 asciilifeform reputations).'
20:51 asciilifeform ... how about the imbecile's ~own~ reputation ?
20:57 asciilifeform from the l0lchest,
20:58 asciilifeform https://theintercept.com/snowden-sidtoday/2830111-mathematician-an-insider-s-view << the first snowden-anything that even ~mentions~ crypto, afaik
20:58 asciilifeform an utter snore.
~ 21 minutes ~
21:20 felipelalli deedbot http://dpaste.com/2Q5NW4S.txt
21:24 felipelalli deedbot http://dpaste.com/110RSQS.txt
21:32 felipelalli deedbot are you sleeping?
21:32 felipelalli deedbot- http://dpaste.com/110RSQS.txt
21:32 deedbot- accepted: 1
21:32 felipelalli I'm sorry, wrong deedbot, I thought it was already merged.
~ 15 minutes ~
21:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how the fuck are "low leve functionaries" innocent
21:49 mircea_popescu they're the guiltiest wtf.
21:49 mircea_popescu ~the only people that are getting shot. otherwise, hitler himself usually pivots into court jester job.
21:49 asciilifeform dun ask me!
21:49 asciilifeform ask the greencocksucker
21:50 mircea_popescu hey, the emulator said you'd say "don'\t ask me! ask them!"
21:50 asciilifeform aha!
21:50 asciilifeform he even censored some of the humour column 'where i used to work before nsa' things
21:50 asciilifeform because - i suppose - items like 'i designed the levels for the game xxxxxxxxx' might give the name away
21:50 * asciilifeform just finished snarfing up whole crock of shit
21:51 mircea_popescu in a different life you could have been gru "low level employee". making 2-3 summaries/day
21:51 asciilifeform neh, too ethnic
21:51 asciilifeform just like - incidentally - here in good old usa
21:51 mircea_popescu afaik they let orcs in that sorta job.
21:52 asciilifeform non-jew orcs.
21:52 mircea_popescu lol. jew enough to count here, not jew enough to own real estate huh.
21:52 mircea_popescu alf the fell-through-teh-jew-cracks
21:52 asciilifeform jew means quite other thing in su.
21:52 asciilifeform sorta like the dark skinned turks in mircea_popescu's mosque
21:53 asciilifeform sole purpose is to fill the back row.
21:53 mircea_popescu btw, "generalnvo shtaba" was always the fucking lulziest thing. because, obvious, in ro shtab denotes... well what you'd call a catamite.
~ 20 minutes ~
22:14 asciilifeform l0l!
22:14 * asciilifeform totters, falls down
22:15 mircea_popescu you know ?
22:15 asciilifeform well now i know.
22:16 mircea_popescu in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-gYOrU8bA
~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~
23:45 ben_vulpes jew enough to get in, too ethnic to get joo gold once in
23:57 mircea_popescu aha.
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