Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-04-03 | 2016-04-05 → ↓
00:23 phf ben_vulpes: you mean cblock specifically or the whole cblock/ctransaction DoS mechanism?
00:26 ben_vulpes "DoS" seems rather farfetched, a readthrough of the DoS usage implies it's more of an ad-hoc block/txn rule enforcement mechanism.
00:26 ben_vulpes but i do mean cblock specifically, and in the context of producing hashes.
00:26 ben_vulpes er
00:26 ben_vulpes digests
00:29 phf it is perhaps useless since we don't have orphanage anymore
00:30 phf what you mean in the context of producing hashes?
00:30 punkman still gotta ban misbehaving peers
00:31 phf true
00:31 ben_vulpes punkman: kinda orthogonal from serialization of blocks to disk
00:31 ben_vulpes i've yet to determine if ndos survives serialization
00:32 phf it doesn't, unless i'm missing something
00:32 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
00:33 ben_vulpes phf: correctly restated: "in the context of producing nonce-th block/bit digests per 'prerequisite'"
00:33 ben_vulpes foo
00:33 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
00:33 ben_vulpes ^^ trinque
00:33 phf pretty sure that lisp code is going sentient
00:37 danielpbarron up agorecki
00:37 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
00:37 phf ben_vulpes: i don't mean it in a sense of clarify your sloppy thinking, i mean it in a sense of i have no idea what you talking about
00:37 phf $up agorecki
00:38 deedbot agorecki voiced for 30 minutes.
00:38 danielpbarron heh i was curious if space was acting as a command character
00:38 phf ohoh
00:38 ben_vulpes it's a half-decent bug report i think
00:39 trinque what is causing that?
00:39 trinque space at front?
00:39 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
00:39 trinque lol!
00:39 trinque k
00:41 ben_vulpes phf: are you familiar with trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/ ?
00:42 phf ben_vulpes: i'm not, that might be the problem
00:42 ben_vulpes aok yes piles 'o context in there
00:42 ben_vulpes o'*
~ 19 minutes ~
01:02 agorecki how would mp shoot down a blockchain protocol change? I've never seen him post on the bitcoin dev mailing list
01:03 danielpbarron protocol changes are considered here
01:03 agorecki they're considered in a lot of places
01:04 ben_vulpes agorecki: never did his six months it appears
01:04 ben_vulpes this is an oooooold thread.
01:04 danielpbarron let me clarify: they're decided here
01:05 agorecki you don't have authority over anything
01:05 danielpbarron $down agorecki
01:05 phf agorecki: and you come all the way to tell us that? that's awfully considerate of you
01:06 ben_vulpes 'twas just getting fun, danielpbarron
01:06 ben_vulpes i wanted to see his brain melt when you linked him to the foundation, ml etc
01:07 ben_vulpes $up agorecki therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
01:07 deedbot agorecki voiced for 30 minutes.
01:07 ben_vulpes agorecki: we're just over here having our own little insane bitcoin cult party
01:07 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: has the /best/ drugs
01:09 agorecki so you're making a better bitcoin and hijacking the name?
01:11 BingoBoingo to be fair so far it is isn't a better bitcoin, merely best client for same bitcoin
01:16 agorecki alright, so if he doesn't like a change it doesn't get into the client and therefore wouldn't be used
01:17 ben_vulpes mind the client/protocol gap
01:19 agorecki if miners were using his client is what I was meaning. don't know how hard it would be to get bit coin companies to use his software
01:21 ben_vulpes what "bit coin companies", hm?
01:21 ben_vulpes agorecki: miners run heavily patched whateverthefucktheyfeel like
01:21 danielpbarron the current goal is specifically to make sure the current miners don't use it, and all the bitcoin companies meet here anyway
01:23 ben_vulpes agorecki: do you remember the "voting with blocks" fiasco?
01:23 agorecki the ones that let all of the devices work without having a full copy of the blockchain
01:24 ben_vulpes agorecki: which ones what?
01:24 agorecki no. I'm a prisoner of the illuminati... I'm afraid I missed that event...
01:24 ben_vulpes rather illuminating
01:25 BingoBoingo ;;google site:qntra.net bip 66
01:25 gribble Another Post BIP 66 Fork Dies after 3 Blocks | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2015/07/another-post-bip-66-fork-dies-after-3-blocks/>; Chain Fork Reveals BIP Process Broken | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2015/07/chain-fork-reveals-bip-process-broken/>; Miners Enforcing BIP 65: Plan for SPV Miner Forks | Qntra: <http://qntra.net/2015/12/miners-enforcing-bip-65-plan-for-spv-miner-forks/>
01:25 ben_vulpes the mainstreamers had this notion that miners would vote on their acceptance of a certain fork by including some data in the block
01:25 ben_vulpes many miners threw the voting bit
01:25 ben_vulpes and yet few actually went so far as to implement that which they were voting for
01:26 ben_vulpes iirc
~ 30 minutes ~
01:56 punkman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFMv0tEJfbM
~ 5 hours 37 minutes ~
07:34 danielpbarron davout, what's the deal with paymium? no qntra? not even a blog post?
07:47 davout danielpbarron: i'll give more details later, working on bitbet for now
~ 45 minutes ~
08:33 deedbot- [fr.anco.is] BitBet receivership second progress report - http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-second-progress-report
08:44 asciilifeform ftr i will not be raising my max bid. if anyone wants the thing, they can bit 9 + epsilon.
08:44 asciilifeform *bid
~ 37 minutes ~
09:22 danielpbarron trinque, ^ I killed the bot somehow
09:23 davout ouch
09:24 danielpbarron yeah something is broken, it says everyone has 0 in all l1 and l2
09:27 deedbot- [fr.anco.is] So long Paymium! - http://fr.anco.is/2016/so-long-paymium
09:28 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes> 1982 muscle car driven at 75-95 mph for 160 miles gets 18.25 mpg << engines advanced significantly past 30 or so years ; idiocies of the eu envirofreaks and their us-based fanbois notwithstanding.
09:29 mircea_popescu if you care to know, the top of the line limo in most of the world for the previous 30 years before that was black, weighed two tons + made of mostly sheet metal, and did about 5 kms to the liter.
09:29 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes> "DoS" seems rather farfetched, a readthrough of the DoS usage implies it's more of an ad-hoc block/txn rule enforcement mechanism. <<< it is exactly what it is.
09:30 mircea_popescu agorecki> how would mp shoot down a blockchain protocol change? I've never seen him post on the bitcoin dev mailing list <<<< ahahaha what the fuck is this now.
09:32 mircea_popescu mmkay.
09:34 mircea_popescu and wouldn;t you know it, no nsa report. hey asciilifeform how is it that BingoBoingo hanbot jurov etc all manage to do their reports in time and you i always have to remind ?
09:34 mircea_popescu are you specialer than them or something ?
09:35 jurov btw, S.MPOE dividends
09:37 mircea_popescu aha.
09:40 mircea_popescu thinking about it, a comment like "x never did his six months it appears" is unlikely to help x in any way. it used to be that kids were trained to throw an exception whenever something they didn't understood happened. by now however, ustards especially, just ignore the whole thing they didn't understand and continue as if it never happened.
09:44 mircea_popescu $up PeterL
09:44 deedbot PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
09:45 mircea_popescu $gettrust deedbot PeterL
09:45 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
09:45 mircea_popescu o.O
09:45 mircea_popescu did the db crap out trinque ?
09:45 PeterL did deedbot not import the old WoT?
09:45 mircea_popescu it did, had a burp earlier with danielpbarron it seems
09:48 PeterL http://trilema.com/2016/the-lordship-list-third-year-on-trilema-this-time/ << thus are anointed the twelve apostles of the Cult of Trilema
09:49 mircea_popescu fancy that!
09:51 mircea_popescu in other mews, http://imgur.com/gallery/wBtPCiN
09:52 mircea_popescu wait, jesus wasn't an apostle was he ?
09:52 PeterL no, jesus --> assbot
09:52 mircea_popescu i suppose i could be my own judas, in a strange sort of kathar approach to it.
09:52 PeterL bah, deedbot
09:52 mircea_popescu oh
09:53 mircea_popescu hm. shouldn't the fact that he has come again be pretty bad news ?
09:53 PeterL why bad?
09:54 mircea_popescu well i dunno how much the xtian plagiarists understood of the thing they were trying to steal&rename, but
09:54 mircea_popescu once the messiah comes back it's the end of the show
09:54 PeterL destroy wicked, reward righteous, only bad if you are not prepared
09:54 mircea_popescu i dun particularly wish to be rewarded!
09:54 mircea_popescu what is this, fucking retirement ?
09:55 mircea_popescu "oh you've been with the corp for 55 years here's a gold watch" ? fuck that.
09:55 PeterL what retirement? you get to keep living without all the deprs holding you back
09:55 mircea_popescu right ? exactly. what did YOU think retirement is ? "finally rid of the kids"
09:56 PeterL I figure retirement is when you get to do whatever you want
09:57 mircea_popescu clearly you've never retired.
09:57 PeterL yes, but I can dream!
09:57 mircea_popescu retirement is when you get so fucking bored you consider starting something new.
10:00 mircea_popescu fancy that, the anglos spell it with a c like sane people for once. heh.
10:01 PeterL spell what with a c?
10:01 mircea_popescu cathars.
10:01 mircea_popescu don't tell me you just ignored the thing you didn't understand!
10:03 danielpbarron mircea_popescu> once the messiah comes back it's the end of the show << no, there's supposed to be a thousand year reign of Christ on earth before the whole thing is destroyed
10:03 mircea_popescu i guess.
10:04 PeterL now I feel lost, where did we see cathars that I ignored?
10:04 mircea_popescu "<mircea_popescu> i suppose i could be my own judas, in a strange sort of kathar approach to it."
10:04 mircea_popescu what did your evaluator make of that line ? "i suppose i could be my own judas, bla bla" ?
10:05 PeterL oh, now I see it
10:05 mircea_popescu right.
10:06 PeterL somehow I glazed over the whole second half of your sentence, I don't understand what cathars have to do with Judas?
10:06 mircea_popescu that somehow is really the important thing!
10:09 mircea_popescu you seem to think it's an isolated and meaningless incident. i'm willing to bet it's both systematic and fundamental, moreso than any positive principle you might identify on deliberate survey.
10:09 PeterL <mircea_popescu> what did your evaluator make of that line ? "i suppose i could be my own judas, bla bla" ? << well, yes, sometimes I just skim over half your statements
10:09 mircea_popescu but be that as it may : the cathars (from greek, with a k there) are one in a string of organised anticlerical opposition to the official doctrine, politically speaking.
10:10 PeterL so you are saying you are going to stand as opposition to yourself?
10:10 mircea_popescu ideologically, they, like the manicheans (yes, hence maniheism) and the bogomils and early gnostic christians held some things about the dual nature of the perceptible world
10:10 mircea_popescu in opposition to the unitarian approach in power.
10:10 mircea_popescu PeterL no, i am saying that opposition to myself has ~0 chances to come from the sort of mind that ignores half of what happens.
10:11 mircea_popescu and to anything else, also.
10:11 danielpbarron at a quick glance, I see cathars believed the old testament God was a different God than the one in the new testament
10:12 mircea_popescu danielpbarron you familiar with the old idea that you know, the creation-god is this hunchback covetous idiot of a fellow,
10:12 mircea_popescu and the imprisoned sophia in his chin dribble ?
10:13 danielpbarron no
10:13 mircea_popescu well... if one's to study religion, even if limiting it to europe, there's a lot more there than anyone cares to admit.
10:14 mircea_popescu amusingly, the parts that didn't come there in the shape of "look what books we can't read we stole from the jews, let's ignore half the sentences" came there in the shape of "look what books we can't read we stole from the armenians, let's ignore half the sentences".
10:14 mircea_popescu you know the joke with the old armenian patriarch dieing in anhalt ?
10:15 danielpbarron I don't claim to or care to study all religion, except to say that I will often look into those claiming to believe the Bible for the purpose of exposing false teachings to whoever showed it to me
10:15 danielpbarron no, what's that?
10:15 mircea_popescu old guy dying, all his many sons around my bed. he speaks barely audibly :
10:16 mircea_popescu "my sons, preserve the jews!"
10:16 mircea_popescu what, father ?!
10:16 mircea_popescu "my sons... preserve the jews! for once they're gone...
10:16 mircea_popescu we're next!"
10:17 trinque danielpbarron: imma teach you guys to give proper bug reports :p
10:17 mircea_popescu plox.
10:17 danielpbarron the Armenians are of very similar decent : they are from Aram, a grandson of Noah
10:17 trinque what'd you say to the bot before it parted and rejoined?
10:17 trinque PeterL's problem was that the thing's caps sensitive; I'm going to fix that today
10:17 mircea_popescu they're also of very similar ability. ancient ro joke going something like "if you see a romanian successfuly engaged in commerce, you're looking at an armenian"
10:18 mircea_popescu sister to "if you see a hungarian speaking foreign languages, you're looking at a jew."
10:18 danielpbarron trinque, i did gettrust PeterL and gettrust jurov in private to make him leave the 2nd time
10:18 mircea_popescu $gettrust deedbot PeterL
10:18 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 3 by 5 connections.
10:18 mircea_popescu oh win.
10:18 mircea_popescu gtn.
10:19 trinque danielpbarron: might've had extraneous whitespace somewhere in the command
10:19 trinque that's the other bug on the list so far
10:19 danielpbarron yep, I did
10:19 mircea_popescu $get trust herro
10:19 deedbot $get trust herro is not a command.
10:20 mircea_popescu $gettrust mir cea_popescu
10:20 mircea_popescu $gettrust mircea_popescu
10:20 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
10:20 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 155 by 107 connections.
10:20 mircea_popescu $gettrust mircea_popescu
10:20 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
10:20 mircea_popescu seems to be doing ok ?
10:20 danielpbarron l1 : 0 ?
10:20 mircea_popescu well there's no mir cea
10:20 danielpbarron .. the second one, with 155 in l2
10:21 mircea_popescu o.O
10:21 mircea_popescu $gettrust deedbot mircea_popescu
10:21 deedbot L1: 1, L2: 9 by 9 connections.
10:21 mircea_popescu yes because there's no l1 outside of this
10:21 danielpbarron oh right, from yourself
10:22 PeterL aha, it worked!
10:23 danielpbarron oh huh, Aram was a son of Shem even, making Armenians semitic
10:23 mircea_popescu well yes
10:27 mircea_popescu anyway, linquistically if you care, old italic as well as greek, along with armenian and georgian all derive chiefly from phoenician, which is a canaanite language.
10:27 mircea_popescu aramaic script is a variation thereof.
10:29 mircea_popescu but these are all considerations for one millennium prior to what the europeans generally regard as "history".
10:29 mircea_popescu which is a funny construct, it's like ... 3k bc egypt... 2k years blank... greece and rome!!!
10:31 mircea_popescu during that blank space, the jews conquered egypt and started a new dynasty, founded carthage, tyre, byblos, etc ; dominated the golden crescent and so on.
10:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i have not forgotten the broadcast! it will appear tonight.
10:35 mircea_popescu aha.
10:36 * asciilifeform rarely forgets anything, but is permanently behind schedule in 40 different places
~ 39 minutes ~
11:16 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu i had a notion: if we're no longer holding the 'father's pistols' line, is there any good reason not to replace openssl in trb with, e.g., ada bignum ?
11:16 gribble The operation succeeded.
11:17 asciilifeform (the issue of whether the muscle exists, to do this, is a separate question. the above is simply re the political aspect of whether it is a thing that is even to be contemplated.)
11:17 asciilifeform i regard it as a mircea_popescutronic question.
11:19 phf wasn
11:19 phf err
11:19 asciilifeform in other 'news', in my dream, mircea_popescu was camping in a tent in my house, and reading a dead tree copy of the logz summarized by somebody or other, and it was a thing on ancient yellowed paper, he cursed and spat and in the end tore it up and started smashing things, then went out the door and started firing some sort of energy weapon at the trees
11:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there is no good reason - for the contemplated july alternative offering
11:20 asciilifeform aha this is what i thought.
11:20 mircea_popescu on the contrary - the more crud that can be snipped the very better.
11:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how about c-s in place of ecdsa ?
11:21 mircea_popescu if we had a working implementation!
11:21 mircea_popescu and something instead of bdb. but INSTEAD not alongfuckingside!
11:21 mircea_popescu and and and.
11:21 asciilifeform again these are mircea_popescutronic questions! they leave aside the issue of 'have we the divisions'
11:22 mircea_popescu truth be told our diligent efforts over the years - and by our i mean mostly not mine - exposed so many hooks for fixing and improving it's not even funny.
11:23 asciilifeform the reason i asked was that i noticed that ada links just fine with cpp crud, both having been shat out of ordinary gcc
11:23 mircea_popescu nb.
11:24 asciilifeform so piecemeal organ replacement is a realizable thing.
11:24 mircea_popescu this is pretty great news, actually.
11:27 asciilifeform folks who have been experimenting with gnat prolly already realized this. but i am leaving it here for n00bz.
11:29 phf property of all gcc, can link fortran for numerics
11:29 asciilifeform aha
11:29 asciilifeform (i can't fathom ~why~ you would, but yes, you can)
11:31 asciilifeform 90% of why i like ada is that it 'compiles like c' (i.e. without massive runtime or bytecode claptrap in place of ida-able binary) WHILE having bounds-checked array accesses etc.
11:31 asciilifeform if this were available somewhere else, i would look into the somewhere else.
11:33 asciilifeform 9 or so of the remaining % is because you get static memory (no consing, no gc, FORCED to intelligently allocate).
11:47 phf i'm just anticipating the next tmsr language
11:48 mircea_popescu fortran ?!
11:50 phf forth? nasm with manual syscalls?
11:52 mircea_popescu lol
11:54 asciilifeform phf: definitely not the latter, x86 is to be killed and cement poured where it is buried
11:54 asciilifeform i actually REMOVED the asm optimizations from my fork of gmp, for instance.
11:54 asciilifeform (ALL of them, not simply x86)
11:55 asciilifeform 'Я тебя не трону, а в душе зарою И прикажу залить цементом, чтобы не разрыть.' (tm) (r) (vysotsky)
~ 17 minutes ~
12:13 mircea_popescu and what do you plan to run bitcoin on, elbruses ?
12:13 phf scheme-81
12:14 phf but first we port symbolics ada to scheme-81, so we can compile trb with symbolics ada
12:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is the basic principle of 'specificity of diddling' (for fuck's sake it needs a name)
12:15 asciilifeform that is, if i want to run it on an arch that gets auto-genned on my fpga every morning, i oughta be able to.
12:16 asciilifeform (incidentally this is an actual thing, and a decade ago i actually thought that i invented it, but then learned that it was cristina cifuentes's thesis)
12:16 asciilifeform iirc.
12:17 mircea_popescu aha
12:17 phf that's also an idea from "when everything had a spec, and everything was written to spec, and things just fit into each other neatly" decades
12:18 phf i.e. symbolics ada
12:18 asciilifeform phf: guess what, this is coming back!1111
12:18 asciilifeform even if it takes napalm.
12:18 asciilifeform and at this point i don't much care what burns, for it to come back.
12:18 asciilifeform for come back it must.
12:19 asciilifeform because without this, a computer is not an asset, but a catastrophicly limitless liability.
12:19 asciilifeform and you might as well go back to hawala and broken clay tablet halves as pgp.
12:20 phf kind of like rms bringing back mit ai lab, when all the cool kids left for smbx
12:21 asciilifeform rms lived on the spine of a usgtronic dragon, and it is not clear to me that he had any influence in reality over what the dragon did
12:21 mircea_popescu deedbot http://dpaste.com/0F6N1PP.txt
12:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> because without this, a computer is not an asset, but a catastrophicly limitless liability. << hey, it doesn't matter, usg will pretend to be mp and make it all good!11
12:22 phf given the state of things, i'm not convinced that hawala is the worst we can do
↖
12:23 mircea_popescu i am convinced it is the best we can do, as far as the human element goes.
12:23 mircea_popescu yes, could benefit from soap and electricity, but these aren't fundamental changes
12:23 mircea_popescu they only seem fundamental to the hordes of spawn for which a soul couldn't be found, so they ended up consumers.
12:23 asciilifeform hey we're still using the same humanz
12:23 asciilifeform as 2000 y ago
12:23 trinque deedbot- http://dpaste.com/0F6N1PP.txt
12:23 asciilifeform so how else.
12:24 mircea_popescu trinque oh wrong one ?
12:24 deedbot- accepted: 1
12:24 trinque yar, for now
12:24 mircea_popescu kk.
12:24 asciilifeform though an argument can be made that the quality of human material available in practice is ~considerably~ below what was around 100, much less 2000y ago.
12:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nono, the use of ~~~SCIENCE~~~ will allow a collection of bureaucrats to satisfy in practice the delusional requirements of what mp "should have been"
12:25 phf would still want to figure out a bunch of problems before applying it "with computers" anyway, crypto, airgap, having it stored in a such a way that the inevitable arrest doesn't result in "5000 financial records were recovered in a daring raid by the brave constables"
12:25 mircea_popescu phf you are not alone in the view that this whole thing is too soon.
12:25 asciilifeform phf: this goes back, again, to mircea_popescu's human-element. see the 'pulling the pin' thread from 2 wks ago
12:26 mircea_popescu the only counter is that there is no such thing as too soon in the flesh. until the time one stands up from couch, just how out of shape one is will never be known.
12:26 mircea_popescu which is why best time's today.
12:26 asciilifeform 'the best time is 20 yrs ago, 2nd best - today'
12:26 mircea_popescu or that.
12:27 mircea_popescu hey, my own father spent what he imagined to be his golden years, at the time and after that time, doing "research" for his government on supposedly, computing, but really, holding each other's dicks like a bunch of chimps.
12:27 asciilifeform phf: you need a man willing to pull the pin, yes. BUT you ALSO need the pin !
12:27 mircea_popescu i'm all for "20 years ago", but they're fucking idiots.
12:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and guess what i do here at rupture farmz!
12:28 mircea_popescu good for you you don't have any kids.
12:28 asciilifeform i dun even have a dog or cat.
12:28 shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo when you have time, need to discuss what do with my paltry qntra shares.
12:28 gribble The operation succeeded.
12:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what did 'research' consist of there ? re-creating z80 ?
12:30 mircea_popescu the cray, really.
12:30 asciilifeform fwiw my grandfather spent a good chunk of his life on hydraulic analogue computerz.
↖
12:31 asciilifeform pretty sad thing to do in 1950s-60s imho
12:31 asciilifeform but what can you do, orcish landz, not enough transistor for everybody.
12:32 phf my grandfather spent all his time implementing, than architecting, than overseeing bunch of other people implementing and architecting analogue avionics for su rockets, mil and "gagarin space man" kind
12:32 mircea_popescu mechanical turbulence in fluids ~10^8 more than electrical turbulence in conductors.
12:32 mircea_popescu hey, my grandfather beat teh russkis outta odessa.
12:32 mircea_popescu we're well set for grandfathers.
12:32 mircea_popescu it's the fucking fathers that dropped the ball.
12:33 asciilifeform l0l!
12:33 asciilifeform incidentally the folks of odessa preferred ro occupants to germans. for an interesting reason.
12:33 asciilifeform ro soldiers liked bribes.
12:33 mircea_popescu buluceala ? aha.
12:34 asciilifeform a man taken by siguranza could, sometimes, be turned loose upon receipt of proper bribe.
12:34 asciilifeform gestapo - never.
12:34 asciilifeform or so goes legend.
12:34 mircea_popescu bout 50%, iirc, that sometimes.
~ 17 minutes ~
12:52 BingoBoingo <shinohai> ;;later tell BingoBoingo when you have time, need to discuss what do with my paltry qntra shares. << Pile more qntra shares on top of them?
12:55 mircea_popescu ;;google ludmila pavlichenko
12:55 gribble Lyudmila Pavlichenko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko>; Eleanor Roosevelt and the Soviet Sniper | History | Smithsonian: <http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/eleanor-roosevelt-and-the-soviet-sniper-23585278/>; lyudmila Pavlichenko - Soviet WWII sniper hero - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHpWPBtEwQ>
12:55 mircea_popescu aha. ukr chix best chix.
12:55 mats hi
12:55 mircea_popescu hola!
12:55 mats sick day today :)
12:57 mats whats the new criteria for lordliness?
12:58 mircea_popescu political ability and a fief.
12:59 mats c
12:59 mats ic*
13:01 PeterL danielpbarron has a fief?
13:01 asciilifeform iirc he did something for s.mg ?
13:01 mircea_popescu i guess he must!
13:03 phf now lets see, the pink pantaloons are out, and yellow jockstraps are in. the handkerchief should be in the ~left~ pocket of your velvet vest and not ~right~ pocket of a wwii bomber jacket. that one tripped up a bunch of contenders. last minute addition was a brooch, make sure it matches the cravat, not a ground for dismissal, but judges look favorably at lord applicants that are aware of only the latest tmsr fashions
13:04 trinque lol
13:04 mircea_popescu in other news, Pavlichenko was later invited by Eleanor Roosevelt to tour America relating her experiences. While meeting with reporters in Washington, D.C. she was dumbfounded about the kind of questions put to her. "One reporter even criticized the length of the skirt of my uniform, saying that in America women wear shorter skirts and besides my uniform made me look fat".
13:04 asciilifeform phf is a winner!111
13:07 deedbot- [Trilema] MiniGame (S.MG), March 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-smg-march-2016-statement/
13:10 mats i'll wear my sunday best and see how it goes
13:12 BingoBoingo phf: Wait we wore boy scout uniforms for our auditions?
13:12 shinohai BingoBoingo: << Pile more qntra shares on top of them? <<< since I suck at writing, I don't see that happening.
13:13 BingoBoingo shinohai: practice? Start a blawg to practice writing and then submit newsy things to qntra?
13:13 BingoBoingo You've got to cultivate a habit shinohai
13:15 shinohai bleh
13:18 BingoBoingo What, you write lines in the channel. You aren't illiterate.
13:19 shinohai Certainly not, I find great joy in reading but writing may as well be Chinese water torture for me.
13:21 BingoBoingo So now you are saying you gotta write more to become a stronger person in general
13:25 shinohai I see there is no way shinohai can just donate the shares back to qntra and forget about it all.
13:25 shinohai https://github.com/udala/docforever
13:26 asciilifeform l0l heathen deedbot ?
13:26 asciilifeform aren't there 1,001 of these ?
13:26 PeterL shinohai why not sell them?
13:27 BingoBoingo PeterL: That's what I'm suggesting too, but I'm suggesting he makes a bigger pile to do it with
13:32 PeterL <deedbot-> [Trilema] MiniGame (S.MG), March 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-smg-march-2016-statement/ << mircea_popescu shouldn't the shareholder's equity change be -1.x instead of +1.x?
13:34 PeterL actually, looks like player holdings should be a negative change too?
13:38 BingoBoingo https://tallahassee.craigslist.org/bfs/5522847971.html
13:45 BingoBoingo https://i.imgur.com/OuxUtC3.jpg
13:45 * asciilifeform no longer loads BingoBoingo's jpegs - at least not before eating.
13:45 BingoBoingo lol
13:46 BingoBoingo See shinohai habit can be trained
13:46 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: This is a safe one related to liked craigslist lulz
13:47 mircea_popescu mmm this needs some fixing PeterL onesec
13:47 PeterL and I don't think the liabilites add up right?
13:48 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-smg-march-2016-statement/ << updated.
13:48 mircea_popescu shinohai> bleh << so then sell them ?
13:51 PeterL S.MG with an earnings of 0.14%, that's better than my savings account
13:52 mircea_popescu ;;calc (1+1.05748966 / 8`775.09816033) ** 12
13:52 gribble Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
13:53 mircea_popescu ;;calc (1+1.05748966 / 8775.09816033) ** 12
13:53 gribble 1.00144708241
↖ ↖
13:53 mircea_popescu right you are huh.
13:54 mircea_popescu ;;calc (1+(1.05748966+3.43434647-2.33633804) / 8775.09816033) ** 4
13:54 gribble 1.00098291433
13:54 mircea_popescu based on q1.
13:57 mircea_popescu shinohai> I see there is no way shinohai can just donate the shares back to qntra and forget about it all. << you can prolly instruct jurov to sell them and donate proceeds to foundation say.
14:02 jurov unless mod6/ben_vulpes instruct me to keep the shares as intangible property of the foundation... imo not happening with such qty
14:11 hanbot davout http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-first-progress-report#comment-8380
↖
14:18 mircea_popescu hm davout re http://fr.anco.is/2016/so-long-paymium do you actually want to try and wire settlements going forward ? or best close it ?
↖
~ 22 minutes ~
14:40 asciilifeform http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/discussion/2016-April/010912.html << l0ltr0n1c
14:41 asciilifeform 'Uncorrectable freedom and security issues on x86 platforms'
14:41 asciilifeform ^ 'palladium' won.
14:42 asciilifeform not actually news, note, to veterans of tmsr
14:42 mircea_popescu sha1.
14:43 asciilifeform heh
14:44 asciilifeform one nitpick: the c201 chromebook he recommends as a potential arm box is a TURD
14:44 asciilifeform it contains evil gpu without which it is unusable, and there is NO known doc for it
14:44 mircea_popescu so this is an absolute defense against any and all accusations of "computer crime" for as long as the hardware involved is post 2009 intel / 2013 amd.
14:44 asciilifeform i have this machine, sweated over it for ages, no useful result.
14:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if 'rule of law' were an actual thing, aha
14:45 mircea_popescu in tmsr court it is.
14:45 asciilifeform otherwise works about as well as the winblowz defense.
14:45 mircea_popescu basically the only actually usable thing in his list is arm
14:45 mircea_popescu im not gonna consider ibm-anything.
14:45 asciilifeform but ftr i discussed the intel and amd 'palladium' engines in detail in the old logz.
14:45 asciilifeform in agonizing detail.
14:46 asciilifeform arm would be usable if there were EVEN ONE documented arm chip available.
14:46 asciilifeform afaik every single on without exception includes 'licensed' crapolade that is documented nowhere
14:46 asciilifeform and not fully reversed.
14:46 mircea_popescu and same is true of bitcoin.\
14:46 asciilifeform at least one can get src for bitcoin.
14:46 mircea_popescu "=== RISCV === While this architecture is extremely limited in performance, price, and performance per watt compared to x86, ARM, or POWER, it is also one of the only fully open source CPU architectures available outside of an FPGA. and may eventually be competitive with MIPS in terms of raw performance. Currently there are no RISCV SoCs in production, however projects such as lowRISC aim to change that: http://www.lowrisc.
14:46 mircea_popescu org "
14:47 mircea_popescu ^is there more substance to this than stargazing ?
14:47 asciilifeform none!
14:47 asciilifeform it is available NOWHERE
14:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and the "full source" does WHAT ?
14:47 mircea_popescu one "can get full source for x86" also.
14:47 mircea_popescu as he well points out.
14:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where ?
14:47 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> at least one can get src for bitcoin.
14:47 asciilifeform no, where do i get 'full source for x86'
14:48 mircea_popescu and where do you get "full source for bitcoin" ?
14:48 asciilifeform briefly back to thread, every other month or so i do an exhaustive survey of commercially-available cpu
14:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: trb's www
14:48 mircea_popescu incidentally BingoBoingo that email might be worth a qntrization.
14:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: rotor takes you from bare metal (currently x86 and arm but potentially vax or whatever) to bitcoin.
14:49 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: After I finish latest piece in que digesting email
14:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the relationship between sane bitcoin source as available on trb www and "bitcoin" is THE SAME as the relation between a sane implementation of tetris and "running tetris"
14:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, it does not. because bitcoin IS NOT SPECIFIED!!11
14:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ah in that sense yes. but it is STILL an intermediate product, far closer to actual src than binarysoup.
14:49 mircea_popescu so it is closer.
14:49 mircea_popescu and ejaculating on a face is closer to actual reproduction than ejaculating on sugar cubes.
14:50 asciilifeform just as a broken-down toyota in a tow yard is more of 'car' than a rusty ww2 tank sans engine.
14:50 mircea_popescu quite.
14:50 asciilifeform back to thread, briefly, i regularly survey the market for cpu-that-could-bitcoinate
14:51 mircea_popescu jurov how many does he have ? a few hundred should come to something in dollars, is that too micropayment for bitcoin donations ?
14:51 deedbot- [Qntra] BitBet Receiver Issues 2nd Progress Report, Auction Closing April 6th - http://qntra.net/2016/04/bitbet-receiver-issues-2nd-progress-report-auction-closing-april-6th/
14:51 asciilifeform the result - VERY discouraging.
14:51 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: l0l saint
14:51 mircea_popescu nice.
14:51 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Heirarchy ftw
14:52 jurov mircea_popescu: 78
14:52 mircea_popescu oh oh.
14:52 asciilifeform the cpu situation is dire, far more so than anyone here realizes afaik.
14:53 mircea_popescu yeah, because we got into airgapping for lulz and lols.
14:53 asciilifeform i looked far and wide, even turned up, e.g., that renesas still manufactures the super-H (sega!)
14:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: airgap will not help against tivoization.
14:53 asciilifeform nor against tendrils that seek out and 'specifically diddle', e.g, gmp mult.
14:53 mircea_popescu apparently brain-in-jar helps against humanity, why wouldn't it.
14:55 asciilifeform the linked essay speaks for itself, described - for n00bz - precisely why merely cutting off the net pipe does not sanitize a box.
14:55 mircea_popescu a step!!1
14:56 asciilifeform in particular, tivoization means that ~your pc is a nintendo~ with microshit - holding the signing key.
14:56 asciilifeform as in, kernel does not boot unless microshit permits it.
15:00 mircea_popescu also why the fuck does he even have mips on that list, i thought they had their own bs.
15:01 mircea_popescu not to mention there's a whole colonization of amd in the arm space.
15:02 punkman mips is licensed like arm
15:02 mircea_popescu i have nfi why anyone would EVEN COSNIDER doing anything with a usg agent
15:03 mircea_popescu which term includes any and all tax-paying entities there.
15:05 mircea_popescu anyway this pipermail list... when i see all the shitty signatures i get nausea.
15:06 asciilifeform mips is ~100 lines of verilog, if i had to pick an arch we could potentially bake one day, i'd pick that.
15:07 asciilifeform mips ~company~ is a parasite, just like arm co.
15:07 mircea_popescu there is that. but it'd be a self-bake sorta deal.
15:07 mircea_popescu aha.
15:07 asciilifeform but let's not conflate the two
15:08 asciilifeform ftr cardano cpu is a mips knockoff.
15:08 mircea_popescu anyway. yes amd gave us usable computers for a five-year plan longer than'd have been otherwise possible.
15:09 asciilifeform hey they're still usable!111 just dun buy post-'13 chip.
15:09 mircea_popescu for as long as that lasts.
15:09 mircea_popescu but yes, one thing the republic might consider is a stockpile of proper amd chips
15:10 asciilifeform i just installed spiffy upgrade in january, from circa-'06 to '08 opteronz!
15:10 mircea_popescu the irony is that well... NOT LIKE NEWER CHIPS WILL BE BETTER
15:10 mircea_popescu ie, it may well have been just long enough.
15:10 asciilifeform aha.
15:10 mircea_popescu this plan to stockpile proper chips etc goes hand in hand with a republic-isp, incidentally, becauyse who else to own hardware
↖ ↖
15:11 mircea_popescu but... people prefer to sit on ass and wonder "what are the criteria" bla bla.
15:11 mircea_popescu fuck you, how about that, next person who feels the need to ask.
15:11 asciilifeform btw i found that old opteron is being sold surplus by the tonne
15:11 mircea_popescu mhm.
15:11 mircea_popescu and we - by which i mean mostly not me - should be buying, at least by the pound.
15:11 asciilifeform who wants - can find.
15:12 * asciilifeform buying
15:13 asciilifeform but it would be mega-improvement if folks outside the большая зона were buyin'.
15:14 mircea_popescu i dunno wtf they were thinking putting it in the chip rather than the ram. i guess nobody could have predicted mp kills moore together with gavin.
15:14 mircea_popescu or maybe the azn producers too unruly.
15:15 asciilifeform ram is commoditized.
15:15 mircea_popescu myeah.
15:15 asciilifeform 5+ firms.
15:15 asciilifeform all but 1 - asia
15:15 mircea_popescu yet another angle that shows the fundamental link between "intellectual property" and both the usg\s continued claims to financial power as well as the continued infestation of the free world.
15:16 asciilifeform if it were only that!
15:16 mircea_popescu what else, the army ?
15:16 mircea_popescu nah, it's becoming apparent to me that the WTC that needs bombing is exactly that.
15:21 midnightmagic memory-hard POW wasn't really researched well i don't think back when bitcoin was invented.
15:21 mod6 (17:57) <+mircea_popescu> shinohai> I see there is no way shinohai can just donate the shares back to qntra and forget about it all. << you can prolly instruct jurov to sell them and donate proceeds to foundation say. << this is exactly the correct approach. this way we take a btc donation (tyvm!) and we continue to only hold M1
15:22 midnightmagic but there's a neat possible 20% algorithmic improvement in bitcoin mining that was just released that might eat bitfury/et al lunch.
15:23 mircea_popescu midnightmagic ie burned.
15:24 midnightmagic patent-pending™
15:25 mircea_popescu anyway, i'd say the concept of pow was not well researched altogether, at that point.
15:25 mircea_popescu in spite of billions spent on "researchers" that had apparently so many better things to do.
15:25 mod6 eh M0 i guess
15:26 mod6 w/e btc only :] whatever that represents.
15:26 mircea_popescu :p
15:26 mod6 herp to the derp mod6
15:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the reason i said 'not only intellectual property' is that cn is happy to piss on american patents but STILL continues to churn out straight knockoffs of usg crud
15:28 asciilifeform as does ru
15:28 asciilifeform because 'cheap'
15:28 mircea_popescu myeah.
↖
15:28 asciilifeform same reason the idiots run winblowz
15:28 mircea_popescu no, because dumb. and "Science". and blabla.
15:28 asciilifeform (nearly UNIVERSAL in orc world)
15:28 jurov aint no high finance without derivatives of bundled derivatives!
15:29 mod6 'imitation is the highest form of compliment'
15:29 asciilifeform what 'science'. 'here's a copy of xp from bazar'
15:29 mircea_popescu heck, the bulgarians spent a millenium trying to immitate byzantine ridiculousness.
15:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "science" as the metaphysical concept. it's not what you and i mean by the proper term.
15:30 asciilifeform mr mold's scientocracy ?
15:30 mircea_popescu what a ustard thinks "science" is has a lot to do with what basil ii bulgaroktonos thought god was.
15:30 mircea_popescu not even.
15:30 asciilifeform ah, then it!
15:30 mircea_popescu mno, we're not discussing a religion, but a theology.
15:30 mod6 jurov: haha
15:31 * mod6 sells to open
15:31 shinohai >.>
15:31 mod6 :D
15:32 mod6 shinohai, what's the word on the street?
15:32 mod6 we get a log yet/
15:32 shinohai Same shit, different day.
15:32 ben_vulpes what is this optimization?
15:32 mod6 i hear you there. fuck, still snowing in my sector.
15:33 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i'ma guess it was some variant of satcoin
15:33 mircea_popescu ;;google asicboost
15:33 gribble AsicBoost design promises 20% faster Bitcoin mining | Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitco.in/forum/threads/asicboost-design-promises-20-faster-bitcoin-mining.1061/>; GTX 970 FTW Users - Post Your ASIC and Boost Clocks! - EVGA Forums: <http://forums.evga.com/GTX-970-FTW-Users-Post-Your-ASIC-and-Boost-Clocks-m2261389.aspx>; 980 Ti Overclock Thread : nvidia - Reddit: (1 more message)
15:33 asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/3RYGC5Y
15:33 asciilifeform ^ de-pdfized
15:34 asciilifeform this is pretty minor.
15:34 shinohai It' a nice balmy 75 degrees here today, and I sit outside on my patio to irc.
15:34 asciilifeform the kind of thing i assumed the existing producers HAD IN 2012
15:34 asciilifeform omfgh
15:34 ben_vulpes so basically someone who understands how asics work sat down and thought about it for half a second
15:34 asciilifeform the tardz.
15:35 ben_vulpes 2012 miners are still just early adopters.
15:35 ben_vulpes many gains yet to be wrung.
15:35 asciilifeform who recalls the discussion of muller gate ?
15:35 asciilifeform notice, nobody has produced CLOCKLESS miner
15:35 asciilifeform even though it would be up to 100x boost per-watt
15:35 mircea_popescu hey, they have what they have.
15:35 mod6 the pics of the rigs these guys had of their GPU farms kill me
15:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dun see s.nsa patent-pending anything ?
15:37 asciilifeform (but omfg!111 how can we produce clockless chip!111 synopsys corp dun sell a cad for it!11)
15:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what sort of tard does one need to be to blow 50kus on patent ?
15:37 asciilifeform (this does not include cost of litigating, either.)
15:37 mircea_popescu perhaps focusing on the wrong side of that question./
15:39 asciilifeform patents in modern world are 100% scamola.
15:39 mod6 i had this dream lastnight that alf called me and wanted to tell me about this new method of processing... but i couldn't hear him very well as I was going through this tunnel.
15:40 asciilifeform l0l
15:40 mod6 he was going to do this V like thing where each op has a corresponding hash, and at the end of all the ops, the hashes had to match or the cpu wouldn't execute the thing...
15:40 mircea_popescu lol sounds pr0mising
15:40 mod6 hahaha.
15:40 asciilifeform all you gotta do is not branch!1111
15:40 mod6 i was like WOAH.jpg
15:40 mod6 yeah, basically.
15:40 mircea_popescu incidentally - a pow update without homomorphism involved ?!
15:41 mircea_popescu sounds like it'll have to be redone.
15:41 asciilifeform l0l!!
15:41 deedbot- [Qntra] Raptor Engineering Laments Dire State Of x86 And CPU Industry At Large - http://qntra.net/2016/04/raptor-engineering-laments-dire-state-of-x86-and-cpu-industry-at-large/
15:43 asciilifeform briefly returning to the opterons, unfortunately they are quite useless alone, they must be stockpiled with ~period mb~
15:43 asciilifeform socket was changed, they cannot be used with recent boards
15:43 asciilifeform (not only socket, but northbridge, differs)
15:44 asciilifeform nor will ddr2 dram remain available for long, i suspect
15:44 asciilifeform whole shebang is weak.
15:46 BingoBoingo The AMD E350 'Bobcat' is still frequently available, often soldered into MB
15:47 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 'pcengines' sells g-series (well-documented, blobless 'coreboot', etc.) chipset boards, see old logz
15:47 asciilifeform but ~this won't last long~
15:47 asciilifeform for all i know they are already shipping evil chip.
15:47 BingoBoingo BUT E350 haz GPU!!!
15:48 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: documented gpu.
15:48 mod6 is there anything to my wack-o dream? could a method be developed to have signed stack frames that the cpu would only execute up successful validation? would this even be worthwhile? probably not, a guy can still probably grab the IP and point it where he likes. probably would have to have some sort of pipeline (is this a thing?) that would make sure that there was valid checksum (from signature) held in
15:48 mod6 a register before executing the next op.
15:48 asciilifeform mod6: branches
15:48 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
15:48 * mod6 hands deedbot an ice-cream cone
15:49 asciilifeform mod6: if you already know the output, sign ~that~
15:49 asciilifeform what'd be the point of signing program states ?
15:49 asciilifeform i dun get it
15:49 mod6 i dunno, on some weird paranoia tangent of trying to "only execute what alf said was good."
15:50 asciilifeform in that case one signs an input.
15:50 mod6 you know what i'm trying to say?
15:50 mod6 ok
15:50 mircea_popescu mod6 at best your dream sounds like a bizarro curtis yarvin scheme
15:50 asciilifeform but in all cases, you want to sign things that are at least in principle human-readable
15:50 mircea_popescu that sort of thing only "works" if patently nonsensical, as per the original.
15:50 mircea_popescu bizarro dun work
15:50 asciilifeform otherwise the scheme devolves into tivo.
15:50 mod6 ah.
15:51 mod6 was weird. maybe i took the acid.
15:51 asciilifeform hey it makes more sense than my dream ! (see log)
15:52 mircea_popescu pwnm (tm) thought your dream is eerily accurate and true to life.
15:52 asciilifeform l0l
15:52 mod6 heheh. i'll have to scroll back.
15:55 mod6 oh do i understand you correctly on the branching problem -- if the stackframes are signed, how will i know (in advance) which address to jump to if all addresses are assigned at run time?
15:56 mod6 if not, maybe a word or 6 on what you're getting at there.
15:56 mircea_popescu what he was talking about was that in all fpga/asic designs, the branches are the time waster / heat dissipater
15:56 mircea_popescu the less branching your algo, the better.
15:56 asciilifeform no
15:56 mod6 oh. right, can't you avoid them with bitwise ops?
15:57 mircea_popescu no ?
15:57 asciilifeform what i was talking about is that branching is why you can't sign program state, because of combinatorial explosion.
15:57 mircea_popescu aok.
15:57 asciilifeform was in re mod6's dream machine
15:57 mod6 right, ok.
15:58 mod6 The other technique is to write programs without branches, or with fewer branches, typically using bitwise operations instead. [1] [Knuth, Donald (2008). The Art of Computer Programming. Volume 4, Pre-fascicle 1A (Revision 6 ed.). pp. 48-49.]
15:58 mod6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_%28computer_science%29
15:58 mod6 they're lying to me
15:59 asciilifeform there is some confusion in the literature because certain sly operators would have you believe that - e.g., a conditional MOV - is not a branch.
15:59 asciilifeform whereas in mathematical fact, it is.
16:01 mircea_popescu mod6 my no was re his comment not yours.
16:01 mod6 oh oh, we're ourselves on two seperate branches of conversation.
16:01 mod6 my bad.
16:01 mircea_popescu lol
16:02 mod6 asciilifeform: intresting though.
16:02 asciilifeform incidentally, the 'branch is wasteful' thing taught in school has to do entirely with caches, and ergo is not relevant in a flat memory (e.g., the inside of a miner)
16:03 asciilifeform and is only really meaningful for a general-purpose cpu, the concept is not even defined re something like a miner
16:03 mircea_popescu hm
16:03 mircea_popescu i guess so huh.
16:03 mircea_popescu hence all the branch prediction etc bs
16:04 asciilifeform though to some extent space locality is also built into drams as we know them
16:04 asciilifeform (they come with a 'burst mode' where the counter auto-increments, so you don't waste time loading a next addr)
16:04 asciilifeform oh and ftr i fucking hate dram
16:04 asciilifeform and wish it to die.
16:05 midnightmagic it *can* be meaningful in terms of signal propagation and logic locality.
16:05 asciilifeform dram is how we get wonders such as 'rowhammer', but also bits that rot from not only cosmic ray but the background gamme of impurities in ITSELF, etc
16:05 midnightmagic but.. i mean insigificantly for mining purposes..
16:05 asciilifeform and is overall a terrifically cheapo hack
16:06 asciilifeform cray (when s. cray was alive!) used sram main memories for a reason.
16:07 asciilifeform dram is a classic 'here take this turd, it is cylindrical just like your old sausage but SO MUCH CHEAPER!1111 moar accessible!111'
16:07 * mircea_popescu is sadly not versed enough to comment.
16:07 mod6 asciilifeform had a interesting dream too haha.
16:09 mod6 back when that was a thing it probably was more affordable for Mr. Luser. What about these days?
16:12 asciilifeform mod6: far worse today actually
16:12 asciilifeform mod6: sram more or less stood still for 20y.
16:12 mod6 Yeah, kinda looks like it. (Was just taking a peek there...)
16:12 asciilifeform BECAUSE in '90s it was not loser-friendly costwise.
16:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu and other n00bz : http://image.slidesharecdn.com/dram-140915070657-phpapp01/95/dram-6-638.jpg?cb=1410764912
16:13 asciilifeform http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1neq2KSL4SE/TIIQ2LlQ0LI/AAAAAAAAAN0/O9iabShK8b8/s1600/sram+and+dram.png << or this
16:14 mod6 "and refresh after read."
16:14 asciilifeform sram is a STABLE system.
16:14 asciilifeform dram is not.
16:14 asciilifeform it is merely a grid of capacitors.
16:14 mod6 cool pic.
16:14 asciilifeform sram cell is ~actually~ bistable.
16:23 mod6 so can actually, cleanly, be dibiased?
16:23 mod6 *debiased
16:26 asciilifeform $up Humpty
16:26 deedbot Humpty voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 18 minutes ~
16:44 mircea_popescu "higher cost per bit" is significant tho. it's either two capacitors, or two capacitors + two diodes
16:44 mircea_popescu this is more-than-triple
16:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it isn't as if the parts have fixed cost ~each~
16:46 mircea_popescu how not ?
16:46 mircea_popescu there is a "smallest printed diode"
16:46 asciilifeform well in the sense of taking up die space - yes, cost.
16:46 mod6 there has got to be an individual cost, but it's probably rolled up into single "unit" of storage.
16:46 mircea_popescu what other sense ?
16:47 asciilifeform my point was that, as with all cheapolade, many costs are ~externalized~.
16:47 mod6 s/unit/cell/
16:47 mircea_popescu you can either have this chip be 256 mb or 4gb. what do you prefer.
16:47 asciilifeform e.g., now you need a dram controller somewhere.
16:47 asciilifeform and you live with bit rot.
16:47 mircea_popescu you live with bit rot anyway.
16:47 asciilifeform nope.
16:48 mircea_popescu through a similar decision process as you propose, rats are not superior to cockroaches
16:48 mircea_popescu "has circulatory system, can leak, needs oxygen"
16:48 mod6 what does alf's dream turing machine look like?
16:48 asciilifeform vastly incommeasurable rates of bit rot.
16:48 mircea_popescu but bit rot nevertheless.
16:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: only in the sense that alligator bite is same as mouse.
16:49 mircea_popescu right. exactly in that sense. you'll have to feed it anyway./
16:49 mircea_popescu can't count "doesn't need food" as a sales point.
16:50 asciilifeform except that dram ~demands~ the controller, and it HAS to meet the timing spec 100% of the time, or it loses bits.
16:50 mircea_popescu aha.
16:50 asciilifeform ergo is not usable with arbitrarily slow driving system.
16:50 mircea_popescu hey, i have no argument with the "dram is a pain in the ass to do hands on stuff to"
16:50 asciilifeform so it drags 'modernity' in with it.
16:50 mircea_popescu right.
16:52 mircea_popescu tho honestly a) i see no difference between "modernity" and "lazy stupidity" ; b) i see no clear reason high clock speeds are necessarily related to stupidity.
16:52 mircea_popescu obvious why they're counter-lazy, yes.
16:53 shinohai "Tor and Cloudflare continue to bicker over whose implementation is more broken" http://www.techtimes.com/articles/146920/20160404/tor-and-cloudflare-hurl-accusations-about-malicious-requests-flawed-methodology-at-each-other.htm
16:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they are related strictly in the sense where we are likely to get 1980s fabbing capability long before 'modern', but also in the sense where we might have to use fpga or even discrete logic elements before this is all through
16:54 mircea_popescu heh.
16:54 mircea_popescu that your next qntra shinohai ?
16:55 * shinohai wonders why everyone wants him writing for qntra.
16:55 mircea_popescu konspiraci!
16:57 trinque lol, ok, found a bug
16:59 phf ok, logs are at a reasonable point, going to go for food and walk and then do a deploy
17:00 trinque deedbot will be back in a moment
17:00 phf right now the switch over between t-a and b-a happens at log entry 1440677, which is "mircea_popescu: and so, this is the end for this particular irc channel as a venue for tmsr. ..."
17:02 mircea_popescu works.
17:02 mircea_popescu phf i dun recall what you answered, will i be able to update log references in trilema with a single sql statement ?
17:04 phf yes, though not tonight
17:05 phf i'm going to deploy to the same machine as btcbase, so the log url is going to be btcbase.org/log/
17:06 phf replacing http://log.bitcoin-assets.com with http://btcbase.org/log/ will work as long as i add ?date=dd-mm-yyyy handler
17:06 phf old ids are obviously preserved
17:07 mircea_popescu win
17:07 asciilifeform neato!
17:08 phf after 1440677 log continues with t-a entries, and as of right now the next t-a entry is 1440678 "pete_dushenski: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/03/serious-question-can-a-parrot-act-as-a-witness-in-court.html << computers are cheaper than women, but perhaps not cheaper than parrots" :D
17:09 phf which is just immediately next t-a message by timestamp
17:10 trinque deedbot- http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/11a0379d-e0f4-4bf3-bac4-6b1650d4af66/
17:10 deedbot- accepted: 1
17:14 mircea_popescu that worx.
17:16 mircea_popescu earliest it could possibly start would be Mar 24 12:33:11 <BingoBoingo> http://qntra.net/2016/03/microsoft-left-impaired-ai-to-suffer-twitter-humiliation/
17:16 ben_vulpes http://skarnet.org/poweredby.html << more weirdos
17:16 mircea_popescu but for the sake of keeping things simple...
17:16 mircea_popescu phf is there an equiv to say "from:mircea" ?
17:18 phf no, but i can add that, search is entirely reworked, since it's essentially grep by text only, so i'll have to refine it bit by bit anyway
17:19 mircea_popescu kk.
17:20 mircea_popescu afair it was the only trim i consistently used.
17:20 mircea_popescu fwiw, mthreat, the guy who was providing the search, actually did that as part of a start-up that got sold off or spun off or w/e they do.
17:21 mircea_popescu providing search for corporate clients. if you get yours working as well as his, perhaps can be arsed to market it.
17:21 phf haslink is actually only ever mentioned 8 times in log
17:21 mircea_popescu but for instance it returns iirc 1/4mn hits for "from:mircea" in miliseconds.
17:25 mircea_popescu logging teh forum happens to be a field where a lot of interesting things can be done. right off the top of head : you familiar with pisg ? ; something like an interaction graph based on namecalling may be interesting.
17:26 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2012/o-luna-de-trilema-prin-ochii-lu-gribble/ << 2012 #trilema via pisg provided by gribble.
17:27 phf yeah, there are some very obvious stats that can be ran, including wot analysis, who speaks to whom, frequencies, etc.
17:30 mircea_popescu yeah.
17:31 BingoBoingo davout: apparently you have fans http://qntra.net/2016/04/bitbet-receiver-issues-2nd-progress-report-auction-closing-april-6th/#comment-50459
~ 51 minutes ~
18:22 mircea_popescu check yourself out pete_dushenski you get the #trilema log global first!
18:23 trinque $up pete_dushenski
18:23 deedbot pete_dushenski voiced for 30 minutes.
18:23 trinque I'm fixing some issue with gpg that's messing up $up
18:24 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: we'll see if this 15 minutes of fame lasts longer than my stint as a lord ;)
18:25 trinque pete_dushenski: try teh $up again
18:25 pete_dushenski is #tmsr taken btw ?
18:25 BingoBoingo lol
18:25 BingoBoingo kako as it
18:26 trinque pete_dushenski: whitespace !?!?!?!?
18:28 trinque phf: how do I keep my fasl from being out of sync with changes to the lisp ?
18:28 trinque I must have filthy python habits, thought it'd know when the lisp was written later
18:29 * trinque does it one more time, for science.
18:29 mircea_popescu ;;google hit me baby one more time
18:29 gribble ...Baby One More Time (song) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Baby_One_More_Time_(song)>; Britney Spears - ...Baby One More Time - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-u5WLJ9Yk4>; Britney Spears' 'Hit Me Baby, One More Time' True Meaning Has ...: <http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop-shop/6753845/hit-me-baby-one-more-time- (1 more message)
18:30 mircea_popescu i have nfi what he was thinking to do that, but w/e.
18:30 pete_dushenski speaking of vagabond romanii, what is it about that little country that makes it produce such sharp-edged hitmen with heads for numbers ? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/09/edward-luttwak-machiavelli-of-maryland
18:32 pete_dushenski trb related : has anyone else had bizarre 'balance' behaviour ? i'm seeing double over here.
18:33 pete_dushenski inb4 stan makes his token comment about the 'fundamental retardation of accounts, which must die (tm) (r)'
18:33 mircea_popescu balance never really worked right, did it.
18:33 trinque phf: eh nevermind, found a typo :p
18:35 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski typically crud like that goes for a few hundred bucks, and is a counter-signal.
18:36 trinque pete_dushenski: that's what I was talking about re: -lows
18:36 pete_dushenski then a 'listunspent' would seem a useful call function to bring to trb (it was in 0.7). unless there are other call functions that already do the same thing ?
18:36 trinque sometimes I saw double, sometimes zero, sometimes negative by amount of fee
18:36 pete_dushenski trinque: gotcha
18:37 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: luttwak is known to all, e.g., his 'coup - practical handbook'
18:37 pete_dushenski so i've now learned as well
18:37 trinque yeh, wallet is unusable without this
18:38 pete_dushenski i have some more fiddling to do with trb it seems.
18:38 pete_dushenski sorry for the dine n dash. bbl.
18:40 mike_c thanks deedbot. hopefully you get static, scriptable challenge URLs soon!
18:40 mircea_popescu 2nd guy who wants this huh
18:40 mike_c manual labor is for the birds
18:40 mircea_popescu you know the joke with the jews ?
18:40 mike_c there's only one?
18:40 mircea_popescu that's the other joke with the jews :D
18:41 mike_c ah. no, i don't know this one
18:41 mike_c unless this is the collecting acorns thing
18:41 ben_vulpes mike_c: a bouncer is ~same work as scripting auth
18:41 mircea_popescu Ștrul&Ițic taking a shit
18:42 mircea_popescu "hey Ițic, do you suppose this is work, what we're doing ?"
18:42 mircea_popescu "nah, we'd have hired someone"
18:42 ben_vulpes hahaha
18:42 mike_c :) I like it.
18:42 * ben_vulpes laughing out loud on the shop floor
18:43 mircea_popescu >D
18:45 mike_c and I don't know about bouncer = script.. curl | gpg -d is pretty easy
18:45 mircea_popescu incidentally, i don't suppose anyoen read Ițic Ștrul, Dezertor (Isaac Trouble, Deserter) ?
18:45 mircea_popescu not a bad short, sorta more dramatic svejk
18:48 mircea_popescu and to honor alf's memory of the siguranța statului : Ițic calls the ro SS. "hey, Ștrul has some wood" "so what of it ?" "he drilled it and hid jewels, diamonds, dollars and probably ammunition from his brother in america"
18:48 mircea_popescu then he calls Ștrul. "hey, i sent over some guys to cut up your wood" "who ?" "same guys you sent last month to dig my garden"
18:49 ben_vulpes mike_c: ssh -t $BOUNCER tmux attach
18:50 mike_c sure, once you figure out the mess that is znc
18:50 ben_vulpes yeah don't do that
18:50 ben_vulpes weechatup BRO
18:51 shinohai ^ weechat ftw
18:51 mike_c hm. ok, I'll check that out
18:51 mike_c thanks
18:51 ben_vulpes ftr it has been utterly rock solid for me since...i don't even remember.
18:52 ben_vulpes the last time i fucked with bouncers, let's say.
18:53 trinque automating auth might be evil, just sayin.
18:54 asciilifeform what's wrong with znc ?
18:56 mike_c why evil. as long as I have to type in my passphrase..
18:56 mike_c and znc I have tried and failed with in the past. possibly just user stupidity.
18:57 asciilifeform worx great here.
18:57 asciilifeform and just say no to auto-authing!111
18:58 mike_c unless you are sneaker-netting I don't see how making me go to a different URL everytime helps anything
18:58 ben_vulpes mike_c: requires server-side complexity to handle batched ratings
18:58 ben_vulpes or different paths for rating/authing
18:59 mircea_popescu oh ?
18:59 * ben_vulpes has no actual idea how trinque's written the thing, only making inferences.
19:00 ben_vulpes does look from here as though there's some key from a request to the action to be performed in the OTP url.
19:01 mike_c and a 'last' endpoint could just grab.. the last one. But whatever, not huge thing. it works.
19:01 ben_vulpes which makes batching trivial. "does this key match something in the DB?"
19:01 mircea_popescu seems necessarily it'd be just one sql request away
19:04 ben_vulpes anyways, works.
19:08 mircea_popescu $up eisenbahnwagen
19:08 deedbot eisenbahnwagen voiced for 30 minutes.
19:15 mircea_popescu http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/04/david_fry_stands_to_make_unusu.html << in other lulz.
19:16 mircea_popescu judge fears redditard may not be safe outside of jail.
19:24 mircea_popescu http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/pete_santilli_to_ask_court_to.html << same rag, further driving the alf case that the "freedom fighters" are uniformly retarded.
~ 1 hours 31 minutes ~
20:56 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
20:56 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 418.66, vol: 3473.45095384 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 416.3, vol: 5787.20267 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 419.84, vol: 5061.48268101 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 420.72456, vol: 18710.81060000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 419.51, vol: 574.28760918 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 418.260469, vol: 57.08433083 | Volume-weighted last average: 419.593025856
21:10 mircea_popescu in other news : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi6AzHM6sJ0 << christina applegate of obscure chicago area cable show uses "i'm jelly" for the first time, spawning a meme that liquefied much shit hence her time!
21:10 mircea_popescu see 15:00 ish
21:13 mircea_popescu incidentally, gotta thank pete_d for his guardian link.
21:13 mircea_popescu misbehaving girl punished to read that thing in lieu of whipping now begging to be whipped instead.
21:13 mircea_popescu such is the power of philipino copywriting.
21:16 BingoBoingo lol
21:21 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=4121
21:23 * mircea_popescu loaded the root, holy shit, "20 reads" ? "100 reads" ?
21:23 mircea_popescu wtf, srlsy, he's that obscure ?!
21:24 mircea_popescu "a manual of female ownership". wasn't this guy living alone as a hobo in the ghetto ?!
21:25 BingoBoingo yeah, to all points
21:26 mircea_popescu but how ? srsly now, nobody can be that fucking obscure.
21:28 BingoBoingo Mebbe his readership keeps culling itself?
21:28 mircea_popescu actually he rarely beats the hundred. nuts.
21:29 BingoBoingo Or meebe he only appeals to elitist venues like hear
21:29 mircea_popescu what exactly is the logic of keeping a blog to feed dead tree book publishing business when a) the publishing business is really trying to sell pdfs for 5 paypalbux and b) the blog is read by fewer people than ever heard of mike hearn ?!
21:30 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you're seriously driving 1/4-1/3 of all his traffic i guess
21:30 mircea_popescu guy should buy you a popcorn or something.
21:30 BingoBoingo Well next piece on qntra is about to mebbe drive him a bit more traffic?
21:30 mircea_popescu http://www.jameslafond.com/?f=site << craziest shit i've ever seen.
21:32 mircea_popescu "Site info: Custom frontend/backend content management system featuring RSS integration, E-Commerce Store with partner PayPal, digital-content delivery scheduler, newsletter module, anonymous comment & moderator-reply module, industry-specific literary publication controls, private libraries, all built from scratch."
21:32 mircea_popescu sounds like he was victimized by "experts" to pay for these features, too.
21:44 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/2KWDGFV.txt
21:44 gribble The operation succeeded.
21:52 deedbot- [Qntra] DoctorClu Pleads Out Leaving CMU Tor Attack Unlikely To Be Contested In Court - http://qntra.net/2016/04/doctorclu-pleads-out-leaving-cmu-tor-attack-unlikely-to-be-contested-in-court/
21:53 asciilifeform ;;later tell BingoBoingo https://cryptome.org/2016/04/nml-168-09.pdf << possible qntra ?
21:53 gribble The operation succeeded.
22:00 BingoBoingo ascii what can really be done with all that that isn't being done in the lamestream?
22:01 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i have nfi what is being done there!
22:02 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Mostly just Putin shaming
22:02 asciilifeform mega-unsurprise.
22:02 asciilifeform the d.c.-based 'reporters on lsd' or whatever it was, naturally squeaks not a word re americans on the list
22:03 BingoBoingo Well, also shitting on Messi
22:03 BingoBoingo But How to tell who is who? And seriously wy all the wealth shaming?
22:04 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: however you cut it, the hatred by the folks who are forced to pay tax, of those who are not - is strong.
22:09 BingoBoingo This sounds more like an assignment for shinohai
~ 15 minutes ~
22:25 mircea_popescu other than lamestream which seems a superb construction (didjha invent it bb ?), i have nfi what you ppl are saying!
22:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: massive leak (or burn, as you like) of tax haven docs a few days ago
22:31 asciilifeform humans, orcs, politicos, pretty much every other name ever appearing in a fishwrap, is in there somewhere.
22:32 mircea_popescu a ya ya, panama whatever.
22:32 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I think Rush Limbaugh invented the word lamestream
22:32 asciilifeform snore.
22:32 mircea_popescu i half-considered doing a list of people anglosphere doesn't want listed, but meh.
22:33 mircea_popescu who the fuck cares.
22:33 asciilifeform afaik whole thing is public ?
22:34 mircea_popescu yeah, which means the inept arsewipes will ignore it like everything else.
22:34 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: That list could be interesting if they drop the Putin-Messi sex tape
22:34 mircea_popescu "oh this is using too much vocabulary for my head"
22:34 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "two weaselheads having sex" ?
22:34 asciilifeform hey these are the brilliant mindz who managed to sleep through the nsa ant catalogue
22:34 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Why wouldn't it exist?
22:35 mircea_popescu messi is particularly amusing because every other fucktard, by which word we mean mouthbreathers born out of argentine mothers, is all infatuated with the guy, while he barely condescends to put up with the idiot reporters for long enough to keep the endorsements going.
22:35 mircea_popescu otherwise wouldn't piss on argentina to put it out if it were on fire
22:36 mircea_popescu which is understandable, nobody with clean underwear would.
22:36 mircea_popescu but other than this bit of lolz, i dunno who the fuck would care what messi does.
22:37 BingoBoingo AHA US football has one of those, but his name is Marshawn Lynch and he's very dark
22:37 mircea_popescu does he live in canada ?
22:37 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: pronounced... 'martian' ??!
22:37 asciilifeform mega-n4m3
22:37 mircea_popescu prolly pronounced tyrone
22:38 asciilifeform l0l
22:38 BingoBoingo mp's closer Pronounced Mar-SHaawn
22:38 asciilifeform such orc !
22:39 asciilifeform srsly, almost as if these folks are escaped nazgul
22:39 mircea_popescu ;;google nazgul
22:39 gribble Nazgûl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazg%C3%BBl>; Nazgûl - The One Wiki to Rule Them All - Wikia: <http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Nazg%C3%BBl>; Nazgûl - Tolkien Gateway: <http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nazg%C3%BBl>
22:40 mircea_popescu shitty google srsly. what, i'm going to click wikipedia links now ? isn't even in my dns list.
22:40 mircea_popescu ;;ud nazgul
22:40 gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nazgul | Nazgul. One of the dark lord Sauron's nine minions. Also called Ringwraiths/Dark Riders/Black Riders. Their leader was the Witch King of Angmar They are the ...
22:40 mircea_popescu aok
22:40 asciilifeform not nazgul tho
22:40 asciilifeform the other folks
22:40 asciilifeform uruk-hai.
22:40 mircea_popescu ;;ud uruk-hai
22:40 gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uruk-hai | In J. R. R. Tolkien's fictional epic, "The Lord of the Rings," the Uruk-hai (Black Speech meaning Orc folk) were a new breed of Orcs that appeared during the ...
22:40 mircea_popescu mkay.
22:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in english world, ^ ~the~ orcs.
22:42 mircea_popescu so wait. is this sauron bullshit older than lord of the rings hollywood crapolade ?
22:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lotr is circa '40s
22:42 asciilifeform one of the few worthwhile fiction in engl. in 20th c.
22:42 asciilifeform hollywoodized quite recently.
22:44 mircea_popescu i never partook.
22:45 asciilifeform mega-backbreaker of a b00k, i actually never met anyone who read it as an adult
22:45 asciilifeform (who has time?)
22:45 mircea_popescu whole tolkien/rawling/etc 2000s bullshit runs together in my mind with star wards and iron pants or w/e the 2010s "superhero" films are.
22:45 asciilifeform t does not belong in the list.
22:45 asciilifeform likely he would have never permitted the idiocy, if alive.
22:46 punkman the hobbit movies were such crap
22:46 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
22:46 punkman tiny book compared to LotR
22:46 asciilifeform hollywood made a piece of shit trojan war film, even. does iliad now turn to shit also ?
22:47 punkman are they doing more tolkien movies?
22:48 asciilifeform let's hope not ?
22:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform had i never read the original prior, yes, it would have been marked for shit.
22:49 mircea_popescu anyone these fuckwads touch is suspect.
22:49 asciilifeform generally i don't let idiots operate my garbage collector.
22:49 asciilifeform but i see where mircea_popescu is going from.
22:50 mircea_popescu i'd rather read early medieval poetry - and i've not done that in a decade or more. no shortage of stuff to read.
22:50 mircea_popescu but yes, pretty much everyone with serious cultural immersion in anglosphere said the same re tolkien. what can i say, i'll take yer word for it.
22:50 asciilifeform hey t was a medievalist / norse specialist.
22:51 asciilifeform incidentally massively loved in ru world also, despite the translation being a ~very~ recent ('90s!) thing
22:51 asciilifeform i actually read it on the airplane.
22:51 asciilifeform we had vol. 1 and 2, 3 was not translated yet! (afaik)
22:52 punkman hmm they still have the Silmarillion book left, guess that'll do for another trilogy
22:52 asciilifeform punkman: i can't even picture how that could be hollywoodized
22:52 asciilifeform it is scarcely a book
22:52 mircea_popescu this is like saying "i can't picture how cat could piss on this item".
22:52 punkman I haven't read it
22:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how will cat piss on an aerical cable.
22:53 asciilifeform silmarillion is more of a fictionalized history text than a proper yarn.
22:53 mircea_popescu what's the difference ?
22:53 asciilifeform *aerial
22:53 asciilifeform http://ae-lib.org.ua/texts-c/tolkien__the_silmarillion__en.htm << see for yerself.
22:54 mircea_popescu let the permanent record permanently reflect that the horrible company i keep drives me to sin darker than damnation itself.
22:54 asciilifeform !b 2
22:54 gribble Error: "b" is not a valid command.
22:54 asciilifeform ah.
22:55 asciilifeform spreading worx!1111
22:55 mircea_popescu do we actually want the bash still ?
22:55 asciilifeform it was lulzy
22:58 punkman /me wants more PKD movies
22:58 punkman they are all bad so far, but in a good way
23:01 mircea_popescu ;;ud pkd
23:01 gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=PK'd | pkd. PK'd like in shot with the popular russian machine guns of a similar name PKT and PKM. He was short ten grand on his share and bigdogg pkd him.
23:01 mircea_popescu "On my father's death it fell to me to try to bring the work into publishable form." dude.... why.
23:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: because greed
23:02 punkman (philip k dick)
23:02 mircea_popescu fucking vermin
23:02 asciilifeform copyrasty ftw
23:02 asciilifeform chris t. is crapping out pseudo-tolkien to this day
23:02 asciilifeform and ~it~ will likely be the next hollywood bucket'o'shit, if any of it.
23:03 asciilifeform 'from the unpublished manuscripts' my shiny metal arse.
23:03 punkman lol
23:04 mircea_popescu ok, point taken, the guy is good.
↖
23:05 deedbot- [Trilema] No Such lAbs (S.NSA), March 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-march-2016-statement/
23:05 mircea_popescu the music creation myth is parsimoniously expressed and correctly designed.
23:05 asciilifeform aha!
23:07 asciilifeform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHHI2Lk79cY << not nyooz but interesting.
23:12 mircea_popescu incidentally, and unrelatedly - what's the derp that put out a purple prose challenge, got totally owned on trilema but then pretended it never happened have to say about teh alphago ?
23:12 mircea_popescu ai no longer a threat ?
23:14 mircea_popescu yurtowski or somesuch
23:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: y Officially! shat his pants re alphago even before the lee sedol thing!
23:18 mircea_popescu and hence ?
23:20 pete_dushenski in other orcishly modern news, this is what a russian zaz automotive factory looks like : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VN-nooxdUA
23:21 mircea_popescu ironically it's exactly the sort of machine he understands and proposes, neh ? markov chain on steroids, ==== "rationality" in the sense of bayesian derpage.
23:21 mircea_popescu (in fairness to be distinguished from bayes' own work, about in the sense re tolkien above)
23:24 pete_dushenski i can't help but lol at zaz when compared and contrasted with the lexus lfa mega-manufacturing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A2s61rT_30 (those uninterested in cars, but fascinated by either carbon fibre, circular textile looms(!), or simply obsessive engineering and exactitude will likely find this latter one of interest)
23:25 pete_dushenski speaking of lee sedol (and other bitbets), sorta surprising davout didn't seem interested in moderating more of the "sure thing" bets.
23:26 pete_dushenski or speak to where exactly 'line in sand' is for resolutions, though i suppose this can be inferred from sums in given accounting columns
23:26 mircea_popescu did he say anything at all ?
23:27 punkman could winner of auction resolve bets?
23:27 mircea_popescu nope.
23:30 punkman why not?
23:33 mircea_popescu the better question is how so.
23:35 punkman suppose new owner pays davout to hold the coins he already has until those bets are resolved.
23:36 punkman assuming you/kako/davout would agree to such a scheme
23:36 mircea_popescu he can't do that.
23:37 punkman continuity would be definitely worth something to new owner is what I'm saying
23:39 mircea_popescu http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sad_Puppies << in other lolz of all time, apparently the sort of expired carcasses / h ellison impersonators that go around writing bad genre prose heard about the 4chan time thing a decade later and pulled a moot of their own at hugo
23:39 mircea_popescu which was a marginal sf-con thing many years ago.
23:48 mircea_popescu and in further "holy shit internet weenies are retarded" news, http://lesswrong.com/lw/31/what_do_we_mean_by_rationality/
23:48 mircea_popescu with apologies for sullying the logs with the ditties of imbeciles, under promise i shan't do it again this year, let us quote.
23:48 mircea_popescu "Sometimes experimental psychologists uncover human reasoning that seems very strange - for example, someone rates the probability "Bill plays jazz" as less than the probability "Bill is an accountant who plays jazz". This seems like an odd judgment, since any particular jazz-playing accountant is obviously a jazz player. But to what higher vantage point do we appeal in saying that the judgment is wrong?
23:48 mircea_popescu Experimental psychologists use two gold standards: probability theory, and decision theory. Since it is a universal law of probability theory that P(A) ≥ P(A & B), the judgment P("Bill plays jazz") < P("Bill plays jazz" & "Bill is accountant") is labeled incorrect."
23:49 mircea_popescu except... OBVIOUSLY the proposition "internet weenie has a girlfried" is to be judged as less likely than the proposition "internet weenie has a girlfriend and her name is Samantha".
23:50 mircea_popescu for the obvious fucking reason! more concrete details, more verifiable claim, more risky claim to make for the sort of dateless derp that's the internet weenie, thus less likely to be made lightly, thus more likely to be true!
23:50 mircea_popescu fucking derps.
23:51 mircea_popescu but at least the issue of what's yurtowski's actual name has been resolved.
23:53 pete_dushenski in light of the above, this shouldn't be in any way surprising : http://lesswrong.com/lw/ncv/attention_financial_scam_targeting_less_wrong/
23:55 mircea_popescu seems very dubious any of those derps actually have any money, other than what they hope to get from the thiel warchest/spoils.
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