Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-05-19 | 2015-05-21 → ↓
00:08 ben_vulpes <decimation> [01:51] or is the 'price signal' one of those things usg can will into existance? << are you familiar with the "winkdex"?
00:09 ben_vulpes "gavmatic" << amusing handle
00:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40350 @ 0.00027934 = 11.2714 BTC [-] {2}
00:15 ben_vulpes 'But she added the uses of hashtags such as "kill all white men" on her personal account were "in-jokes and ways that many people in the queer feminist community express ourselves".' << gotta love these people. "when you make jokes i don't understand and therefore piss me off, i round up a hate squad and get you fired. when i make jokes, it's in-group solidarity and YOU CAN'T SAY ANYHTING ABOUT IT"
00:23 decimation ben_vulpes: I'm familiar with the idea that exists. no idea how it is calculated
00:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 347650 @ 0.00027573 = 95.8575 BTC [-] {3}
00:28 ben_vulpes decimation: you're not allowed to know!
00:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.00028952 = 7.0498 BTC [+] {3}
00:47 ben_vulpes ;;seen herbijudlestoids
00:47 gribble herbijudlestoids was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 41 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <herbijudlestoids> brb.
00:54 ben_vulpes http://deedbot.org/deed-2015-05-04-01-34-51.txt << lol @ hanbot's codeblock
00:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 175700 @ 0.00027194 = 47.7799 BTC [-] {3}
00:59 asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu sha512(the_answer.tar.gz.asc) == b0d915a9f73a21c47b0444a31cf8e3a9393e31a8cc676aec318198ff5d0f958d68756b160335d65ba7dce2e94072de19e4cc4214912f81cee121bdd6d9a4aec8, aaand you've got mail.
00:59 gribble The operation succeeded.
01:13 ben_vulpes MYSTERIES
01:14 hanbot ben_vulpes yeah i'd be happy to find a better way to do that.
01:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74550 @ 0.00028616 = 21.3332 BTC [+]
01:31 punkman https://weakdh.org/
01:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182800 @ 0.00027053 = 49.4529 BTC [-] {4}
01:36 mats gossipd would be pretty good for cnc servers
01:37 punkman " allows a man-in-the-middle attacker to downgrade vulnerable TLS connections to 512-bit export-grade cryptography"
01:37 ben_vulpes hanbot: specifically the part i found amusing was the closing </code> tag at the top of the document and the opening <code> tag at the bottom
01:37 punkman how many downgrade attacks do they need to have before they cut out the stupid modes?
01:43 ben_vulpes trinque: dpaste with patch vanished. plz to turdalize.
01:44 mircea_popescu o hai alfie
01:44 mircea_popescu whenever i sleep, he comes up with something.
01:45 trinque ben_vulpes: oh the dieharder thing?
01:45 ben_vulpes trinque: yeah, that
01:45 ben_vulpes sil vous plait
01:46 trinque ben_vulpes: https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=403502&action=diff
01:47 trinque real simple change
01:47 ben_vulpes ayup
01:47 ben_vulpes zactly what i was lookin for
01:47 ben_vulpes ty
01:47 trinque np
01:48 trinque the real solution is apparently unfucking dieharder more broadly
01:48 trinque it diddles glibc internal preprocessor flags, so on
01:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112100 @ 0.00026797 = 30.0394 BTC [-] {3}
02:07 ben_vulpes "The key facet of the OS X audio I/O model involves predictive timing mechanisms. Instead of requiring the driver to message an application directly when an I/O cycle has completed, the timing mechanisms enable the Audio HAL to predict when the cycle will complete." << wowee
02:10 mats writing a driver are we
02:10 ben_vulpes not if i can't help it
02:11 ben_vulpes adc on the cheap via mic input
02:11 mats its not so bad
02:11 mats ah
02:11 ben_vulpes maybe fuck it, record an audio file and nom those bits?
02:11 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: ^^
02:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00028347 = 7.0301 BTC [+]
02:28 ben_vulpes !up isaackl
02:28 ben_vulpes heyo
02:29 isaackl Thanks!
02:29 ben_vulpes what brings you by?
02:29 isaackl I was reading the epic conversation with justJanne
02:30 isaackl Figured since I've actually read a decent amount of trilema.com and the b-a logs I should finally join the chan
02:30 ben_vulpes o you have have ya
02:30 ben_vulpes welcome
02:30 isaackl Heh
02:32 isaackl http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-05-2015#1130899 < I see there was already some discussion of 21.co
02:32 assbot Logged on 13-05-2015 21:42:17; asciilifeform: re: '21' etc >> 'The cornerstone of the strategy as presented would have been the release of consumer products that would turn power from wall sockets into bitcoin through the widespread dissemination of bitcoin mining chips.' << -somebody- clearly reads the 2013 #b-a logs.
02:33 isaackl They keep derping about 'Bitcoin is a protocol'/internet-of-things craziness
02:33 isaackl A bit at odds with their plan to leach electricity off consumers for mining
02:34 isaackl So I wonder
02:34 isaackl Is there 'bitcoin is a protocol' stuff a cynical ploy
02:35 isaackl Or do they actually believe that stuff and know are desperately looking to put their VC bezzlebucks to good use
02:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59385 @ 0.00027331 = 16.2305 BTC [-]
02:40 isaackl I.e., how many of the VC-funded "crypocurrency! blockchain!" startups have realised the optimal move is simply to hoard bitcoin?
02:44 ben_vulpes isaackl: see the copious historical threads on how fiat-backed forays into bitcoin are more-or-less raiding parties for the US Treasury
02:45 isaackl ben_vulpes: "Buterin's waterfall", etc?
02:49 isaackl I would still bet that 95% of bitcoin startup guys are true believers
02:50 isaackl So who are the 5%, how has USG compromised them
02:52 ben_vulpes the waterfall was the windmill-tilt at driving the price to zero
02:53 ben_vulpes are you familiar with the notion of "useful idiots"?
02:53 isaackl Yeah
02:57 isaackl 21.co (and their a16z backers) on paper seem too smart to be useful idiots
02:57 isaackl Ethereum, sure
02:57 ben_vulpes are you familiar with the buckshot approach to "investment" common in startuplandia?
02:57 isaackl And if Balaji is a USG shill he's a damn good actor
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02:58 isaackl Yeah, I figured that as the most likely null hypothesis
02:58 ben_vulpes dude the entire vc space is incredibly cynical
02:58 ben_vulpes overt "greater fool theory" investments everywhere.
02:59 ben_vulpes 21 doesn't pass the even-barely-making-sense test.
02:59 ben_vulpes the days of thousand+ coin scams are nowhere near past us, they're just denominated in dollars now.
02:59 ben_vulpes !up isaackl
02:59 ben_vulpes get in the wot, you.
03:00 isaackl I'm registered
03:00 punkman 21 seems like a reasonable chumpatron to me
03:00 isaackl Not yet rated
03:00 BingoBoingo !up vexual
03:01 isaackl Indeed, my guess was Balaji raised on buzzword bingo (blockchain technologee! IoT!) and then groped around for an actual plan
03:03 isaackl Last gig was freelancing for another startup (curiously, also backed by a16z and qualcomm). Their big product was an Android emulator, lots of users, crazy schemes to try and monetize them
03:03 ben_vulpes !getrating isaackl
03:03 ben_vulpes !gettrust isaackl
03:03 assbot Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user isaackl: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=ben_vulpes&to=isaackl | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/isaackl/
03:04 ben_vulpes !rate isaackl 1 new startupfounder
03:04 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/db51e5827faed886
03:04 isaackl "cynical" but also, in the long-run, impractical
03:04 ben_vulpes !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.isaackl.1:d0dd779d88427861d58d13a6e07d75fbf1db8ea67e2735938e6bce91f97a517f
03:04 assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for isaackl with note: new startupfounder
03:04 ben_vulpes
03:04 isaackl Thanks!
03:05 ben_vulpes easy come, easy go.
03:05 ben_vulpes and what are you working on now?
03:05 ben_vulpes evening, Adlai
03:05 isaackl Though I'm not a "startup founder"
03:05 Adlai but are you a ninja?
03:06 isaackl I'm just derping around in Thailand, riding motorbikes, and reading up on finance, cryptography and bitcoin
03:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124000 @ 0.00028202 = 34.9705 BTC [+]
03:09 ben_vulpes sounds like quite the life
03:09 isaackl It's pretty good!
03:11 isaackl End-goal is to build a legit bitcoin biz but I've read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0 so I'm not rushing into anything
03:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118966 @ 0.00028265 = 33.6257 BTC [+] {2}
03:12 ben_vulpes and to think that was written in 2012
03:15 ben_vulpes isaackl: what kinds of businesses do you have your eyes on?
03:20 isaackl Well, taking the thesis that the real value of bitcoin is as an inflation hedge, and that funds will increasingly flow into bitcoin as people realise this
03:21 isaackl (i.e., after a few more reward halvings mean less coin is being dumped on the market by miners, speculators have been burned enough times that more coin is held by long-term investors and volatility drops a bit)
03:23 isaackl Sensible bitcoin businesses are those that increase the value of btc as an investment (not user adoption or transaction volume or anything like that
03:23 ben_vulpes wait whut
03:23 ben_vulpes no no man no
03:23 ben_vulpes a sensible btc business makes bitcoins for its owners
↖
03:23 ben_vulpes nothing more, nothing less
03:24 mircea_popescu i see this is becoming a dailything now.
03:24 ben_vulpes nobody can do anything to increase the value of btc as an investment. it's here, it's queer, nobody's changing it.
03:25 ben_vulpes where'd the 55 yo steelworker get off to
03:25 ben_vulpes ;;seen justJanne
03:25 gribble justJanne was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 16 hours, 8 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <justJanne> Anyway, I'm sorry, but I don't have much time arguing with people like you stupidly about fictional politics.
03:25 * mircea_popescu blames ben_vulpes
03:25 ben_vulpes i blame your keymageddon
03:26 isaackl Hypothetical example: a hyper-secure bitcoin wallet that's easy enough for a Warren Buffet to use. Maybe not actually possible, but if it existed, much more wealth would flow into bitcoin, no?
03:26 mircea_popescu in unexplectedly related lulz :
03:26 mircea_popescu From: junior@e-technik.uni-rostock.de
03:26 mircea_popescu Subject: Improve potency and gain more size
03:26 ben_vulpes it's late, sense of humor got burned out at tango tonite
03:26 mircea_popescu isaackl you ever read the causes/purposes article ?
03:26 isaackl mircea_popescu: yeah
03:26 mircea_popescu so why are you derping about various obscure purposes ? let it be.
03:27 mircea_popescu if you can do something useful, do it. if not, relax and watch the show.
03:27 * ben_vulpes attempts to rerax
03:27 isaackl OK, concrete idea I had
03:27 mircea_popescu no, but see... you ever read the ideas article ?
03:28 isaackl Which one?
03:28 mircea_popescu trick question, wasn't one per se. but the idea is why the fuck do you think you're having ideas ?
03:29 isaackl OK, no ideas.
03:29 mircea_popescu leaving alone how "concrete idea" is a contradiction in terms.
03:29 mircea_popescu 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.
↖
03:30 isaackl This is indeed why I spend my time right now just researching
03:30 mircea_popescu aite.
03:30 mircea_popescu !gettrust isaackl
03:30 assbot Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user isaackl: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=isaackl | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/isaackl/
03:30 mircea_popescu do you know how to self-voice even ?
03:31 mircea_popescu !up isaackl
03:31 isaackl Cheers
03:31 mircea_popescu pm assbot !up
03:31 isaackl OK, unlike justJanne I'm very willing to have my youthful derpiness forcefully removed
03:31 isaackl Why I came here
03:32 mircea_popescu cool.
03:32 ben_vulpes http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~unk6/clim-spec/ << bitrot!
03:33 ben_vulpes !up Vexual
03:33 mircea_popescu what are you doing now, stalking Germany ?
03:33 trinque ben_vulpes: hoard ye all PDFs that can be found!
03:33 ben_vulpes ha!
03:33 ben_vulpes when did vexual get unbanned?
03:33 mircea_popescu when jurov bitched.
03:33 isaackl My reasoning was, there's multiple candidates to unseat the USD. RMB, Gold, BTC
03:33 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: yeah i'm going to find her photo and then doxx her
03:33 mircea_popescu isaackl what's this, like an exam of sorts ? the heavenly throne is holding a vote to replace the old usd with a spiffy young fellow ?
03:33 isaackl Currency is a schelling point. People with lots of USD start buying bitcoin, eventually there's a runaway effect
03:33 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes intel has her photo, at 16 and current. looks a little tranny.
03:34 ben_vulpes poor thing, no wonder she's spending her life in my little pony chans
03:34 isaackl No, just the aggregate decisions of people with lots of USD. If 60% choose to buy gold and 40% choose to buy btc
03:35 mircea_popescu it's the blessing of suck, you know ? very beautiful (and i mean, VERY, stunner beautiful) chicks develop early adolescence dementia because of all the insane sexual attention they get and don't really want, need, or know what to do with.
03:35 mircea_popescu very smart chicks develop the same, because of the same, only different but in the end the same.
03:35 mircea_popescu adults are fucking perverts.
03:36 mircea_popescu isaackl the idea being that your representation of this thing is manufactured for the needs of representation. it's what they call a didacticism, with no actual connection to reality. bad way to think.
03:37 * ben_vulpes ponders
03:37 isaackl Then gold will quite possibly win the runaway effect. The gold mining rate is a constant 1.5% or so a year, so post a few more reward halvings bitcoin has the advantage
03:37 mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats
03:37 gribble Current Blocks: 357233 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 1614 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47459292440.3 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227
03:37 mircea_popescu negative now huh ?
03:38 mircea_popescu isaackl come up with the formula for bitcoin inflation, i'm curious.
03:38 ben_vulpes "this coordinate system is highly unportable, and it always ended up being an intermediate stage to some other coordinate system. Thus this coordinate system has been exorcised and should be avoided in the future. JPM 1-29-91" << i am actually growing to love software archaeology
03:38 isaackl mircea_popescu: OK, to connect it to reality. Sovereign wealth fund, has a lot of USD. Realises USG is shaky and wants to diversify. How do they decide how much to allocate to gold or bitcoin?
03:38 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes yup. cultural archeology is the superset, antrhopology being the application. it's what the wise do with their time.
03:38 mircea_popescu isaackl seriously, print out the formula.
03:39 mircea_popescu (it's not really that hard)
03:39 isaackl mirce_popescu: 50% mined between 2009 and first reward halving, halves after each reward halving
03:39 mircea_popescu nope.
03:39 isaackl What?
03:39 ben_vulpes my problem is finding the things that fit in my head
03:39 mircea_popescu that's not the formula.
03:40 isaackl mircea_popescu: k
03:41 isaackl What is this, a Google interview?
03:41 mircea_popescu Idt = Mdt / _M3 + C%dt.
03:41 mircea_popescu and now we read it out loud :
03:42 ben_vulpes this is ASSETTTTTS
03:42 mircea_popescu bitcoin inflation over an interval equals the mined coins over that interval divided by the average monetary mass during that interval plus the percent change over that interval.
03:42 mircea_popescu Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227 << that thing is the last term.
03:42 mircea_popescu bitcoin nominal inflation may be whatever it may be, but its REAL inflation is always zero.
03:43 ben_vulpes what is "real" inflation?
03:43 mircea_popescu obviously before bitcoin nobody even understood that there is ANOTHER kind of real inflation, and thus therefore the real inflation from before is actually yet another kind of nominal inflation
03:43 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes yes.
03:43 isaackl Because the mining rate is known in advance and already priced in?
03:43 ben_vulpes difference between what one expects the monetary base to do and what it's actually doing?
03:43 mircea_popescu anyway, all this given here to underscore the fact that this shit is really fucking complex, to the point of excluding most specialists, let alone amateurs.
03:44 mircea_popescu isaackl no. vice-versa
03:44 mircea_popescu because IT prices YOU in.
03:44 isaackl Damn you're like a Zen master. You need a stick
03:44 mircea_popescu i am just very old.
03:46 isaackl Anyway, all I was getting to is that in the long run, even gold is softer than bitcoin
03:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00029184 = 18.561 BTC [+] {3}
03:46 isaackl And in the universe where everyone with USD is a hyper-rational optimal investor, bitcoin takes over.
03:47 ben_vulpes in all universes.
03:48 ben_vulpes there is no better money.
03:49 isaackl Clearly not this universe. And gold has the advantage that people have millenia of experience securing physical things. Bitcoin can be more secure than gold, if you know what you're doing. But people lose wallets, forget passwords, choose crackable keys, etc
03:49 isaackl Not a problem with bitcoin
03:49 mircea_popescu unrelatedly, for the journos and other news fiends watching the log : i came to a resolution of a major sticking point re the rsa factorisation thing, large article coming in a few hours.
03:49 ben_vulpes ah shit
03:49 ben_vulpes i was going to go to sleep
03:50 isaackl But is a problem for people considering using it.
03:50 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes you goitta sleep sometime
03:50 ben_vulpes isaackl: gold has this vault problem.
03:50 isaackl ben_vulpes
03:50 ben_vulpes big, obvious, easily walked off with by your local government.
03:50 isaackl ben_vulpes: yeah. another pro to btc
03:50 ben_vulpes assuming that you can even amass a quantity of the real stuff, and aren't playing with paper.
03:50 ben_vulpes besides, securing physical things comes down to guns.
03:50 mircea_popescu the monopoly on violence problem makes everyone unable to actually hold gold.
03:51 ben_vulpes yeah, that.
03:51 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/lets-pretend/#selection-267.231-267.710 <
03:52 isaackl What I'm getting to is, if you can make a secure wallet that's easy to use for, say, the peter schiffs of the world, that increases the demand for bitcoin, no?
03:52 ben_vulpes no.
03:52 ben_vulpes they have staff.
03:52 ben_vulpes if they want btc, they get btc.
03:52 mircea_popescu isaackl you really think i depend on you to make me the tools that the universe requires for my survival ?
03:53 ben_vulpes what's scaring people off (which is unimportant, but let's pretend for a moment) is the horrendous shitpile that the bitcoin source actually is.
03:53 mircea_popescu what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ?
03:53 mircea_popescu i.... i imagine they know that.
03:54 isaackl mircea_popescu: no.
03:54 isaackl To be clear, I wasn't proposing to make such a thing.
03:54 ben_vulpes isaackl: your 'wallet' experiment also suffers from the inescapable existence of ease of use and security of cryptographic goods at opposite poles.
03:56 isaackl ben_vulpes: indeed. even smart people fuck this shit up
03:56 ben_vulpes and /routinely/.
03:56 ben_vulpes the only way to get good at it is to do it.
03:56 ben_vulpes repeatedly.
03:57 mircea_popescu that's what the abbot told the virgin, at any rate.
03:57 ben_vulpes as with dance, sex, wine, etc. skin in the game as a prerequisite for competence.
04:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28720 @ 0.00029211 = 8.3894 BTC [+]
04:02 ben_vulpes !up isaackl
04:02 * ben_vulpes yawns
04:03 isaackl what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ? < Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more
04:04 isaackl Improve security of cryptographic goods, demand for bitcoin goes up
04:05 ben_vulpes dude it takes a day to set up a rock solid btc infrastructure
04:05 ben_vulpes if you don't have a day to do it correctly, you don't need to be in bitcoin badly enough
04:06 mircea_popescu https://8ch.net/btc/res/245.html << pls tell me dank of tardstalk.org fame is not now an internet meme !?
04:07 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139747 <<< i dunno but i think anything grown in your backyard has you eating as a king, not a poor pleb
04:07 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 01:11:02; BingoBoingo: Today was the day of the planting of ornamental amaranths (Celosia). See cazalla I'm totally planting edible plants if I want to eat like the world's desperately poor!
04:07 ben_vulpes "generas unique design makes it possible to make logic changes and feature enhancements to it on the fly without disrupting day-to-day operations of your users" << asciilifeform but how?
04:08 mircea_popescu cazalla agreed.
04:16 mircea_popescu !up rdymac__
04:20 isaackl http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139957 < Sure. And there aren't many rational reasons for people to hand over their bitcoins. (While most of the economy runs on fiat, makes sense to spend fiat and hoard btc). Gambling sites seem like one of the few options
04:20 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 07:23:40; ben_vulpes: a sensible btc business makes bitcoins for its owners
04:20 isaackl SDICE, BBET, etc
04:21 isaackl Gambling is rational if it's one of the rare games like poker where you can get an edge. Hard to design games like that, you need to convince the fish they can win too
04:21 mircea_popescu sdice was -ev
04:22 isaackl mircea_popescu: yeah. In which case you're basically selling entertainment
04:22 davout mircea_popescu: unless martingale1!!1
04:22 mircea_popescu davout o right you are :p
04:23 davout which goes back to convincing the fish they can get an edge
04:24 davout imo it's the only thing that makes the dice games profitable, the endless supply of martingale-chumps
04:24 isaackl Yeah. Poker is great at that, fishy play gets you the occasional exciting big win. Fishy play is -ev of course, but high variance
04:25 isaackl So on a table with 2 sharks and 6 fish, 2 fish will win a lot, the sharks and house will consistently make a little, and 4 fish will lose
04:25 isaackl Online poker eventually saw an accumulation of sharks and the fish left
04:27 isaackl And some fish just love to gamble. I used to do marketing for the mobile-slots chumpatron, humorously people pay real money but they can't cash out real money
04:28 isaackl But the virtual gambling kick is enough
04:28 mircea_popescu davout hey, the first math class that pays for itself.
04:29 ben_vulpes everyone in that class fails out
04:29 mircea_popescu isaackl wait. the stupid "X Y Z" themed slot machines in ipad store ?
04:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18934 @ 0.00028905 = 5.4729 BTC [-]
04:29 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes that's how you run a real school.
04:30 isaackl mircea_popescu: yep. Android only these days
04:30 mircea_popescu dude how the fuck does this stupid shit work
04:30 mircea_popescu i've been trying to figure this out.
04:30 isaackl Biggest money-making gaming genre on the play store
04:30 mircea_popescu so... why not just you know, play a free one ?!
04:30 mircea_popescu why not draw the thing on paper and win all the time ?
04:30 mircea_popescu my mind was so blown...
04:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 174000 @ 0.00027518 = 47.8813 BTC [-]
04:31 isaackl My personal theory was it's similar psychology to RPGs, clicker games, even strategy games a little bit. You're constantly chasing advnatages which let you chase advantages, etc
04:32 isaackl So people playing slots aren't trying to win so they can buy stuff. They want to win so they get more gambling tokens
04:33 mircea_popescu but...
04:33 mircea_popescu eh i give up.
04:35 cazalla they tried to ban em down under but no luck
04:35 cazalla pokies ipad games are popular with the kids though
04:36 cazalla must be a different type of addict who plays them, i can't imagine your typical gambler playing them seeing there is no moment of win/loss
04:37 isaackl mircea_popescu: what can I say, maybe they have no purpose, only dopamine causes
04:38 mircea_popescu cazalla ikr?
04:38 mircea_popescu isaackl i think they're too advanced for my puny brain
04:38 mircea_popescu the brancusi of digital.
04:39 isaackl We targeted women in their 50s and 60s in places like Florida, if that makes sense
04:39 isaackl FB lets you do things like target cigarette smokers. Who says it's not useful...
04:40 mircea_popescu so you used to do what, marketing for this ?
04:41 isaackl Yeah
04:44 mircea_popescu how would you like to do some marketing for me then ?
04:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60050 @ 0.00027518 = 16.5246 BTC [-]
04:49 ben_vulpes http://poker.cs.ualberta.ca/publications/IJCAI03.pdf
05:04 mircea_popescu 13 keys so far btw.
05:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88850 @ 0.00028146 = 25.0077 BTC [+]
05:11 kakobrekla any interesting ones?
05:11 ben_vulpes lol you thought bitcoin needed space
05:11 ben_vulpes a leading poker bot takes 12 TB of compressed data
05:17 mircea_popescu yes.
05:20 mircea_popescu anyway, coupla hours.
~ 17 minutes ~
05:37 isaackl mircea_popescu: very much so.
05:38 mircea_popescu ok, here's the deal : bitbet has a referral system, where one gets 1% of the value of bets made by referrals.
05:38 mircea_popescu you get a 1btc budget, your job is to get > 1 btc in referrals over a month.
05:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23050 @ 0.00028692 = 6.6135 BTC [+]
05:40 mircea_popescu in here dood.
05:43 isaackl ok. online marketing for this kind of thing is usually about finding an under-exploited channel.
05:45 isaackl what are people currently doing for bitbet referrals,how much low-hanging fruit has been plucked?
05:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88355 @ 0.00028146 = 24.8684 BTC [-]
05:46 mircea_popescu i dun think anyone did much of anything.
05:47 Adlai isaackl: the most successful referrals are in useful banners, eg http://www.btcalpha.com/bitbet/1128/
05:48 mircea_popescu i would guess 90% of all marketing is happening on 8chan via mike_c s banners
05:48 mircea_popescu https://8ch.net/btc/ < up there
05:49 isaackl The only banner I see links to trilema? But yeah, ifhe 8chan ads are fairly new, there's probably a ton of optimising can be done
05:51 mircea_popescu well reload.
05:51 mircea_popescu and they are 5 days old or so.
05:51 mircea_popescu and yes there's probably a ton of work that can be done. just needs someone competent to do it.
05:51 isaackl Then most certainly yes.
05:52 mircea_popescu aite, addy ?
05:53 isaackl email or btc?
05:53 mircea_popescu btc, for your budget.
05:54 adlai isaackl: banners such as http://www.btcalpha.com/bitbet/1128/ad.png linking to eg http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/?ref=1Egc5vkin3zemK4rAP8Vj3gnpg4XrK55Tg
05:56 adlai will establish the referral cookie for a month or so
06:00 isaackl 1Bum3oXxbCLUg54snyL6rmBz7vRBuPUr6G
06:01 mircea_popescu aite you'll have it later today.
06:01 isaackl Cool!
06:02 isaackl http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139982 < and yes, I'll follow this advice
06:02 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 07:29:53; mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.
06:02 adlai the world according to 1bum
06:08 isaackl mircea_popescu: and how do you prefer to communicate? all through the channel?
06:08 mircea_popescu i prefer to not communicate lol. do your job, report the methodology and results once you're done. you got a blog ?
↖
06:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89600 @ 0.00028802 = 25.8066 BTC [+] {2}
06:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73171 @ 0.00028069 = 20.5384 BTC [-] {2}
06:16 mircea_popescu 15.
06:16 mircea_popescu holy shit on a fuckstick.
06:22 cazalla hey isaackl, i know this one weird tip if you need some help
06:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123100 @ 0.0002927 = 36.0314 BTC [+] {3}
~ 22 minutes ~
06:50 jurov mike_c tyvm!
06:53 kakobrekla mircea_popescu 0.5%
06:53 mircea_popescu oh right.
06:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00028246 = 12.8237 BTC [-]
06:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26577 @ 0.00028246 = 7.5069 BTC [-]
06:59 mircea_popescu ;;later tell vexual what's the story there ?
06:59 gribble The operation succeeded.
07:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51050 @ 0.00028246 = 14.4196 BTC [-]
~ 20 minutes ~
07:25 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations/
07:26 mircea_popescu feel free to put it in... uh... hn, lmao.
07:26 fluffypony lol
07:28 davout mircea_popescu: it's on hn, let's watch the ranking pattern
07:28 davout off to read it
07:28 mircea_popescu o, it's glorious.
07:33 davout so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life"
07:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00028246 = 6.6519 BTC [-]
07:36 fluffypony davout: that was a great post!
07:36 fluffypony :-P
07:37 kakobrekla davout> so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life" < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPyFRa39AMk
07:38 mircea_popescu better to say it wrong than eat it wrong amirite
07:38 davout kakobrekla: kek
07:38 mircea_popescu lol
07:39 kakobrekla since I saw this clip, i always try to mispronounce it, if i remember on time.
07:40 mircea_popescu ;;later tell justjanne Raphael Nicolai Fabian Randschau (Uni Kiel) <rra-squee-informatik.uni-kiel.de> top keks.
07:40 gribble The operation succeeded.
07:43 kakobrekla and this is the hn effect, supposedly http://i.imgur.com/AXyjE0h.png
07:44 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171573 @ 0.00027958 = 47.9684 BTC [-] {2}
07:44 scoopbot_revived More factored RSA keys, and assorted other considerations http://trilema.com/2015/more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations/
07:44 mircea_popescu kakobrekla on what, logs ?
07:44 kakobrekla logs mostly but other stuff that runs on same box is included
07:44 mircea_popescu aha
07:44 mircea_popescu nb.
07:51 davout number 23 : "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" <<< !!1
↖
07:51 mircea_popescu you dont say.
07:52 davout some guy from gnupg
07:52 davout "debian.sur5r.net Archive Automatic Signing Key"
↖
07:52 davout "Apple Product Security"
07:53 * mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.
↖
07:54 davout but these are keys that simply -declare- this as an UID right?
07:54 mircea_popescu dja want me to publish the actual archive as spit out by the test ?
07:54 davout not sure i'd know how to exploit it
07:54 davout might be interesting to have a table with the fingerprints matched with the uids you list
07:55 mircea_popescu kinda left it as it is so people can independently check.
07:55 mircea_popescu it's all a pgp keyserver archive download + python script away
07:55 davout yea
07:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44790 @ 0.00027518 = 12.3253 BTC [-]
08:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133494 @ 0.00027886 = 37.2261 BTC [+]
08:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76355 @ 0.00027886 = 21.2924 BTC [+]
08:18 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139474 << im not reading fucking pdfs
08:18 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 17:54:59; ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu very relevant >> http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/techreports/2004/cacr2004-01.pdf
~ 30 minutes ~
08:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i keep various cheap gadgets around that will eat pdfs. you can get chinese printer that will, etc. (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form)
08:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: item in question treated rsa weakening from the use of peculiarly large exponents.
08:51 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140218 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140221 << l0l aha. was waiting for somebody to notice.
08:51 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 11:51:47; davout: number 23 : "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" <<< !!1
08:51 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 11:52:46; davout: "debian.sur5r.net Archive Automatic Signing Key"
08:52 Apocalyptic (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form) // except postscript maybe
08:52 asciilifeform Apocalyptic: postscript suffers from precisely same problems as pdf (which is, after all, a minor variation on the former)
08:52 Apocalyptic yeah, i'm not saying it's saner
08:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 288400 @ 0.00027025 = 77.9401 BTC [-] {5}
08:54 asciilifeform until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones
↖
08:56 asciilifeform i presently suspect that there are versions of sks (and/or other pgptronics) which will stupidly display a legit fp for the magical keys.
09:04 asciilifeform aaand we're up to 19.
09:05 kakobrekla are you going to automate the display of results or will it be a full time job?
09:05 asciilifeform kakobrekla: what do you think.
09:05 kakobrekla you know me, 230v mains.
09:07 asciilifeform and yes, changes are coming.
09:08 asciilifeform (such as 10x speedup, new tests - e.g., pollard-rho; etc)
09:10 asciilifeform other observations - some of the items on the target list are of obvious diddlomatic interest; others are probably humint targets - some of them, rather intriguing, e.g., mr robert j hansen of http://sixdemonbag.org/bio.xhtml
09:11 asciilifeform and the various 'pirate party' folks, perhaps, will take some pleasure in seeing their names in this list.
09:11 asciilifeform and how many of the data points are smokescreen ?
09:12 asciilifeform (picture the stereotypical schoolboy who logs in to change his marks. does he change his and chums' alone? only if idiot)
09:14 kakobrekla nah, taking in account the latest development, cosmic ray can alter all grades from a single student.
09:15 asciilifeform aha
09:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00027886 = 16.2297 BTC [+]
09:37 mircea_popescu mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw.
09:37 mircea_popescu any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all.
09:38 asciilifeform mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ?
09:38 mircea_popescu it would seem so.
09:38 mircea_popescu which... yeah.
09:39 asciilifeform it still frags like hell though
09:39 mircea_popescu yeah
09:39 asciilifeform but 'unfrags' to keep pace if you're on a real computer
09:39 asciilifeform this is still not victory, but at least not runaway fandango
09:40 mircea_popescu it's pretty close.
09:40 davout http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140245 <<< the correct way to perform such an attack would be to also generate a short keyid collision
09:40 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 12:54:33; asciilifeform: until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones
09:40 mircea_popescu yes.
09:40 asciilifeform davout: i was wondering same thing, as you might expect. anyone got an ancient copy of pgp for winblows handy ?
09:41 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw. << thx!
09:41 davout !s short id
09:41 assbot 1 results for 'short id' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=short+id
09:41 mircea_popescu oh sht
09:41 asciilifeform betcha some of the magickeys show a legit evil32.com
09:41 mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ? << correct.
09:41 mircea_popescu THATs what needs to be tested. pgpwin and what else was there ?
09:41 mircea_popescu and the apple one
09:41 mircea_popescu we'll get jack with the linux versions
09:41 mod6 and 19 broken moduli nao
09:41 mod6 wow.
09:42 davout aaand the HN story is at... wait for it... 3 points
09:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i suspect that the 'apple product safety' thing is a target. that is, folks filing bug reports 'confidentially'
09:42 mircea_popescu davout aww!
09:42 mircea_popescu does it have negvotes ?
09:42 asciilifeform apple, afaik, doesn't sell a pgptron
09:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there is a pgp for mac thing yes
09:42 davout mircea_popescu: i don't know, i really don't hang around hn very much
09:42 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ^
09:42 asciilifeform other habitual mac users ?
09:42 asciilifeform diametric ?
09:43 davout mircea_popescu: on osx you can either build GPG, or use this macgpg stuff, i use the former, so can't really help here
09:43 * asciilifeform will ask around
09:43 mircea_popescu https://ssd.eff.org/files/2015/01/20/gpgsuite.png <<<
09:46 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all. << nothing specific yet. although the charts are interesting. Process Switches hit 4k before going to zero.
09:47 mircea_popescu davout apparently "it’s impossible to downvote anything on Hacker News". i guess story just isn't interesting.
09:47 asciilifeform should've mentioned japanese toilets, perhaps
09:47 asciilifeform then it'd be a mega-hit.
09:47 asciilifeform as in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-05-2015#1135161
09:47 assbot Logged on 17-05-2015 19:23:18; davout: HN now displays "Why Japanese Toilets Are Failing in America (2013)" higher than this
09:50 mircea_popescu anyway, enough stuff in phuctor's wake to keep dozens of crypto researchers busy for monthys if not years.
09:50 mircea_popescu it's the equivalent of a tractor that just plowed through virgin land. all those delicious worms!
09:54 mircea_popescu davout 138.More factored RSA keys, and assorted other considerations (trilema.com)3 points by davout 2 hours ago | discuss << it's greyed out, so i guess it got neg'd somehow.
09:54 davout scam
09:56 mircea_popescu cat trilema-20may2015.txt | grep -c "more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations"
09:56 mircea_popescu 3826
09:56 mircea_popescu i wouldn't be too worried about it, it's probably on everyone's im
09:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MG] 35015 @ 0.00009 = 3.1514 BTC [-]
10:00 davout asciilifeform: any recommendations on general purpose cryptography books?
10:03 asciilifeform davout: there isn't terribly much good material other than the original 'red book' by - yes - schneier
10:03 asciilifeform (before they scooped out his brain)
10:03 asciilifeform 'applied cryptography' 2nd ed.
10:03 davout yeah, i saw this one
10:03 asciilifeform there is another mega-book:
10:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57717 @ 0.00027414 = 15.8225 BTC [-]
10:03 asciilifeform crc's 'handbook of applied cryptography'
10:04 asciilifeform http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/hac
10:05 asciilifeform ^ all of the chapters on www
10:05 asciilifeform i have the dead tree, it is very nice.
10:05 davout i can't read books on a screen
10:05 asciilifeform get the tree.
10:05 davout yes
10:05 asciilifeform more or less the entire rest of the library on this subject is either pulp for lusers, or very narrow treatises for specialists
10:05 davout gonna get the schneier one to get started
10:05 asciilifeform (mainly bound journal reprints)
10:06 asciilifeform not a bad place to start. but very bad place to end.
10:06 asciilifeform unrelated, the toilets piece - http://www.tofugu.com/2013/07/22/why-japanese-toilets-are-failing-in-america - is pretty lulzy
10:07 mircea_popescu iguess someone really should write a reasonable, 500 page, college degree (any field, proper) required to read crypto overview
10:07 mircea_popescu it's damned time.
10:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform from 2013 ?!
10:07 asciilifeform hey it's 'news' !
10:07 asciilifeform hn thinks so, no ?
10:07 asciilifeform unless i somehow picked up wrong link
10:08 mircea_popescu weird.
10:08 asciilifeform https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9560985 << right link.
10:09 asciilifeform yes, 2013.
10:09 mircea_popescu i guess they're slow.
10:09 mircea_popescu any bets on whether bock shows up incidentally ?
10:09 davout so wrt the schneier book i see 'second edition', and '20th anniversary edition'
10:10 mircea_popescu get the 90s version.
10:10 mircea_popescu i don't remember what all he retardified post 2004
10:10 asciilifeform davout: i cannot comment re: whether 20th anniversary thing censored any of the goodies from 2nd ed, or added nonsense. but it strikes me as likely.
10:10 mircea_popescu https://media.8ch.net/wx/src/1432062121946-1.png << heh.
10:11 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139493 << you're sensitive :)
10:11 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 18:42:29; jurov: both sides of that discussion made me cringe
10:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118194 @ 0.0002731 = 32.2788 BTC [-] {2}
10:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform dude that zdnet article was probably the most idiotic thing i read today.
10:15 mircea_popescu what the fuck is everyone involved on ?
10:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ru lags as usual, https://threatpost.ru/2015/05/20/otstavit-paniku-4096-bitnye-rsa-klyuchi-ne-skomprometirovany
10:17 asciilifeform 'debunked, rsa not broken' << 'this thread is about kittenz' (TM)
10:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they readily admit "we took register piece and translated"
10:17 asciilifeform sop
10:17 asciilifeform at least spelled name this time.
10:17 mircea_popescu is that thing even read ?
10:17 asciilifeform kaspersky? yes, read.
10:17 mircea_popescu threatpost.ru ? 0 comments everywhere, i never heard of it etc.
10:18 asciilifeform before long, herr böck will claim that he tipped us off to the mess of diddled keys on sks.
10:18 mircea_popescu "Dennis Fisher · Michael Mimoso · Christopher Brook · Brian Donohue · Anne Saita."
10:18 mircea_popescu say wut ? seems random spamsite, but in russian.
10:18 asciilifeform tentacle of kaspersky iirc.
10:19 mod6 <+asciilifeform> http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/hac << i have this one too lol
10:20 asciilifeform mod6: probably the most 'serious' general-purpose encyclopaedic work on crypto.
10:20 mod6 yeah, it's solid
10:20 asciilifeform at least, in the public.
10:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/e_kaspersky_ru
10:21 asciilifeform ^ him, i think.
10:21 mircea_popescu aha
10:23 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139507 << "a state of anarchy" is even better. like this glass being full of empty.
10:23 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 19:09:47; decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-05-2015#1138061 < anarchy is retarded
10:23 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139512 << i am too nonconformist to hang out with you guys anymore.
10:23 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 19:13:16; jurov: ANARCHY MUST BE ENFORCED AT ALL COSTS
10:24 vampyr true anarchy comes from within outside!
10:26 mod6 :]
10:26 mircea_popescu shit being emo gets boring real quick.
10:27 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139522 << it's a thing, yo. the history of "nordic countries" (post roman empire, because pre that history consisted of being pretty much the pasthun of the time, raped with a sharpened stake covered in burning greek fire) is like so :
10:27 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 19:21:04; decimation: mircea seems to credit the german geography for why 'nordic freedom' 'seems to work'. but I suggest it is the people themselves - having been beaten by the romans for centuries, and then forced by the church to mate outside their immediate family, they developed a concept of 'kinship' beyond L2 cousins
10:27 mircea_popescu a) god hath decided to give free herring out in the scania sounds. consequently, swedes now have a kingdom
10:28 mircea_popescu b) god hath moved on, so now five centuries of hard labour and being basically as dirt-poor and pan troglodytus as the russian mujik.
10:29 mircea_popescu c) god comes back in the shape of Kennedy and the Fulda gap. herring is being airlifted into berlin
10:29 mircea_popescu d) god shapeshifts into a large oil find
10:29 mircea_popescu e) that's going away. we are here.
10:30 mircea_popescu for as long as the free herring still lasts, they can run around derping about how they meditatively comprehensified the deep secrets of the universe.
↖
10:30 mircea_popescu predictably, it'll be something utterly retarded like "stalin did it wrong, and marx was nordiccounntries.jpg anyway".
10:31 mircea_popescu i have no fucking idea what west germany was thinking when it allowed the scumbags to join civilisation without first hanging every "intellectual" of the eastern school.
10:32 mircea_popescu instead of parading them naked through the streets with a "i was a fucktard and am now sorry" thing around their neck, they let them sit around for twenty years coming up with reasons as to how their idiocy "wasn't really all that bad".
↖
10:32 mircea_popescu one only needs to look at the czech commies post ru invasion to understand exactly how abject people actually are.
10:37 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2014#581041 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2014#581042
10:37 assbot Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:17; asciilifeform: Officially, all Soviet representatives regard these parasites with touching feelings of friendship, but privately they call them 'shit-eaters' ('govnoed'). It is difficult to say where this expression originated, but it is truly the only name they deserve. The use of this word has become so firmly entrenched in Soviet embassies that it is impossible to imagine any other name for these people. A conver
10:37 assbot Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:18; asciilifeform: ght run as follows: Today we've got a friendship evening with shit-eaters', or Today we're having some shit-eaters to dinner. Prepare a suitable menu'.'
10:38 mircea_popescu aha.
10:45 mircea_popescu (for the record : the life of a smerd, like that of a kholop, was worth 5 grivna. that's about enough metal to make a decent shovel - roughly speaking the smartphone of the time)
10:52 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139580 << sveet.
10:52 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 21:22:35; *: ascii_field pictures slaves sweating
10:52 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139600 << nice going. seems stable enough so far.
10:52 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 22:35:12; williamdunne: Should be 24/7, on an actual server and is cloaked
10:53 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139620 << this.
10:53 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 22:45:37; trinque: I'll negrate people who abuse it
10:54 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139628 << voice is not the criteria jurov
10:54 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 22:50:05; jurov: if someone uses temporary voice to resubmit existing deed 1000 times, deedbot has nothing to say about it?
10:54 mircea_popescu !up Helvetik
10:54 Helvetik Hi, Bonjour !
10:54 mircea_popescu hello. who're you ?
10:55 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139657 << it would, and the whole thing's about bastards in the wild.
10:55 assbot Logged on 19-05-2015 23:33:00; asciilifeform: (this could underplay the effect of 'bastards' however)
10:56 Helvetik Sorry, I juste speak a little english. I'm here for to talk with davout
10:56 fluffypony abonjour
10:56 fluffypony bonjour
10:56 fluffypony that thing
10:56 mircea_popescu aok.
10:57 davout Helvetik: if you really don't speak that much english mebbe join #bitcoin-fr, will be less painful for you :-)
10:57 * fluffypony is on a train to Paris
10:57 fluffypony Helvetik: https://forum.getmonero.org/14/events/277/monero-meetup-paris-france-may-21th-2015
10:58 fluffypony you must attend!
10:58 davout fluffypony: on IRC? nice! still up for the monero meeting tomorrow?
10:58 fluffypony davout: Thalys have on-board wifi :)
10:58 davout fluffypony: the electric plugs are there only for the show on regular french trains
10:58 davout so wifi is nice
10:58 fluffypony lol
10:59 mircea_popescu fluffypony how're you enjoying yurp ?
11:00 fluffypony mircea_popescu: it's been fun
11:00 fluffypony had a meetup in Brussels last night
11:00 mircea_popescu cool.
11:00 fluffypony and a bunch of Romanians came
11:01 mircea_popescu anyone smart ?
11:03 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139680 << speaking of this, am I the only one nonplussed by all this "we use <<best practices>> fixed exponent" bs ? it's an unavoidalbe magic number , okay, but it's tyhe sort that should eminently be a knob for the user. a proper gpg would have e user-settable at the key generation phase (with 65536+1 as a default, sure)
↖
11:03 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 00:29:41; mod6: take a look at this: http://dpaste.com/0SQPBKC.txt Is there any reason when allocating the space for p & q to do Eulers totient they would initialize the space with 'p' and 'p', instead of 'p' & 'q'?
↖
11:03 mircea_popescu maybe i wanna use e = 2686977, whose business is it.
11:05 fluffypony mircea_popescu: nah, some interesting guys but they're all just trying to do gambling stuff in Romania and elsewhere
11:05 fluffypony so nothing mindblowing
11:05 mircea_popescu aha.
11:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100200 @ 0.00026766 = 26.8195 BTC [-] {2}
11:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28369 @ 0.00027388 = 7.7697 BTC [+] {2}
11:24 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> maybe i wanna use e = 2686977, whose business is it. << i was looking at this yesterday too, had the same impression. mpi_set_ui( e, 65537);
11:25 mod6 by the end of the night i was digging into prime selection. gnupg does fast fermat checks in several places, but im starting to wonder if it wouldn't also be benificial to just check against a list of "Carmichael numbers"
11:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95300 @ 0.00028287 = 26.9575 BTC [+]
11:33 mod6 lol, or why not just use Miller-Rabin instead?!
11:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89500 @ 0.00028501 = 25.5084 BTC [+]
11:38 mircea_popescu that's probabilistic tho
11:39 mod6 oh it might actually do this somewhere anyway... there are some references in the docs... although i haven't found it in the code yet.
11:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155050 @ 0.00029236 = 45.3304 BTC [+] {4}
11:47 mod6 ahh, i see, you gotta pick the bases for a randomly.
11:47 mod6 derp
11:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33031 @ 0.00028287 = 9.3435 BTC [-]
11:48 mats unemployed life so good
11:48 mats going to a music festival this weekend then san diego
11:49 mats looking forward to pounding trustfund hotties on drugs
11:49 mircea_popescu tape it.
11:50 mats lol.
11:59 mod6 maybe its this is_prime function
12:02 mod6 lol, they used to have this "rabin-miller" function in the first import of gnupg (as so it's dated) that takes a paremeter "MPI n" and then does nothing and returns 0; http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=blob;f=cipher/primegen.c;h=07d83d8314d8588e4f425a4d171fc41ebb3be4a9;hb=5393dd53c5e06f0458949217317601b2eaed8350G
12:04 mircea_popescu win
12:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform do you remember where the fuck is that discussion about how a good hardening approach is to deviate from the toolset the attacker might reasonably expect to find is ?
↖
12:18 Naphex mircea_popescu: a good attacker will do discovery, and map everything ahead of time. while there are some pluses into deviating from the toolset. they mostly come from building your own. which is going to end up better fitted for the task
12:18 Naphex and you more knowledgeable into what runs where
12:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73749 @ 0.00026665 = 19.6652 BTC [-] {3}
12:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026361 = 5.2722 BTC [-]
12:37 danielpbarron !up Hasimir welcome to the biggest* best** irc channel!
12:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107950 @ 0.0002616 = 28.2397 BTC [-] {3}
12:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103300 @ 0.00025942 = 26.7981 BTC [-] {2}
12:44 mircea_popescu Naphex this was more re nsa diddled hardware.
12:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141849 @ 0.00026721 = 37.9035 BTC [+] {2}
12:56 Hasimir danielpbarron, cheers ... you named it assbot?
12:57 danielpbarron no; I think kako did that
12:57 Hasimir well, whatever floats his boat I guess
12:57 danielpbarron I noticed you've got a +4 in my L2 and a 0 in assbot's
12:58 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139716 << yes, but i already sound too paranoid.
12:58 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 00:42:58; decimation: so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade?
12:59 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139712 << atm it's just weird. i have nfi what that'd do.
12:59 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 00:41:46; mats: gpg is broke
12:59 Hasimir hmm, oh ratings ... I tend not to rate bots, not even mine
13:00 mircea_popescu !gettrust Hasimir
13:00 assbot Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Hasimir: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=Hasimir | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Hasimir/
13:00 Hasimir and this key crap better not invalidate my pyme work
13:00 Hasimir that would be such a let down
13:01 mircea_popescu your what ?
13:01 Hasimir I ported the python bindings for gpgme to py3
13:01 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139728 << there's a reason nobody (tm) is using it.
13:01 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 00:47:39; mod6: holy shit gnupg v2 is bizzare! X_X
13:01 mircea_popescu da fuck knows what's in that code.
13:02 mircea_popescu Hasimir oh.
13:02 Hasimir meh, 2.0 is such a waste of time ... 2.1, however, comes with all manner of entertainment
13:03 mircea_popescu Hasimir mind giving a self-intro for they such as myself that apparently know you from 3rd parties but otherwise not ?
13:03 Hasimir it's currently in a branch of git.gnupg.org/gpgme (to be merged with master when I finish cleaning up the last of the ancient examples)
13:05 Hasimir assuming rsa isn't screwed by then, of course ;)
13:05 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139742 << eh, the mit. about as relevant for tech as uzbekistan for banana pies.
13:05 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 00:58:59; pete_dushenski: and in other news, livejasmin is accepting btc, ripple raised $28 mn, and bitcoin is "leaderless" now : http://www.technologyreview.com/news/537486/leaderless-bitcoin-struggles-to-make-its-most-crucial-decision/
13:08 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139775 << ahahaha wait seriously !? because of teh rsa ?
13:08 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 01:19:10; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so i walk into $redacted on monday and folks compare me to pons & fleischmann. so there'll be teasing, yes.
13:08 mircea_popescu !up Hasimir
13:10 Hasimir no, not seriously, there's a big difference between some bunch of people with crap entropy sources and rsa being borked
13:11 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
13:11 ascii_field Hasimir: who said it was borked ?
13:11 ascii_field other than idiot 'journalists'
13:11 Hasimir though it it turns out to be the "you must all use openpgp cards" crowd I will laugh and laugh ...
13:11 * mircea_popescu has trouble following .
13:12 ascii_field mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140455 << was on your site. and also see 'specificity of diddling' threads here.
13:12 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 16:13:53; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember where the fuck is that discussion about how a good hardening approach is to deviate from the toolset the attacker might reasonably expect to find is ?
13:12 danielpbarron i have one of those cards; never used the thing
13:12 Hasimir mircea_popescu, a ref. to a particularly hard-line stance taken by some people on gnupg-users
13:12 mircea_popescu ascii_field yes but where ;/
13:12 mircea_popescu gimme an actual keyword
13:13 ascii_field 'how to airgap, practical guide' i think it was.
13:13 Hasimir mircea_popescu, well, listing a hundred and something frequent posters to gnupg-users with the statement "we probably have your private key" does imply a certain degree of breakage
13:14 mircea_popescu o was it.
13:14 ascii_field 'Just as long as you actually know what you're doing, this sort of arrangement increases the costs of attacking your setup astronomically...'
13:14 mircea_popescu ah ty!
13:14 ascii_field but iirc there was another
13:14 mircea_popescu senile dementia is this sad situation when you recall what you said but not exactly nor where.
13:14 mircea_popescu apparently some get it in their 30s ;/
13:15 ascii_field conan doyle in the 'sherlock holmes' stories described this
13:15 ascii_field sorta the mental equivalent of a crowded hard disk. not quite same as senility
13:16 mircea_popescu let us hope so.
13:20 Hasimir mircea_popescu, take up chess, it helps keep you sharp(er)
13:24 Hasimir I returned to playing in order to make a good habit of it by the time senility struck in order to stave it off ... then discovered that years of IT logic paid off in unexpected ways
13:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00029399 = 11.9948 BTC [+]
13:26 mircea_popescu meh, chess. i'd rather play hanoi towers.
13:27 ascii_field http://www.reddit.com/r/security/comments/36mi86/if_you_are_on_this_list_phuctor_may_have_your_pgp/ << shitsquad pushed 'the button' nulling 'ups' it appears, l0l
13:28 mircea_popescu i didn't know you were on reddit
13:28 ascii_field was ages ago, when it was actually readable ('06-'08 or so)
13:28 mircea_popescu ascii_field got a moment to peer review article ?
13:28 ascii_field aye
13:29 ascii_field out here without keys though
13:30 mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/1EAGHJ9
13:31 mircea_popescu oh
13:31 mircea_popescu it'll wait.
13:31 ascii_field ok
13:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00028091 = 5.6182 BTC [-]
13:42 mircea_popescu "Some widely deployed RSA implementations choke on big RSA public exponents. E.g. the RSA code in Windows (CryptoAPI, used by Internet Explorer for HTTPS) insists on encoding the public exponent within a single 32-bit word; it cannot process a public key with a bigger public exponent."
13:42 mircea_popescu birdy says.
13:43 mircea_popescu ascii_field ^
13:43 mircea_popescu !up ascii_field
13:43 ascii_field ahahahahhahahaha.
13:43 mircea_popescu i seem to recall seeing a step-by-two dance ? aha ?
13:43 ascii_field anyone know a winblowistic implementation of pgp ? as in, actually using microshit's api
13:43 mircea_popescu our luzers are on windoze 10/10.
13:44 ascii_field well aye, but traditional gpg built for mingw doesn't do this
13:44 mircea_popescu at least not that any of us've noticed.
13:45 mircea_popescu 25 ppm occurences can very well be a tiny pore in an otherwise solid implementation.
13:48 ascii_field the lost world of winblows pgptrons, closed-source crypto, etc. will have to be vivisected, likely
13:50 ascii_field unrelated,
13:50 ascii_field who is https://twitter.com/crypto_zen ?
13:51 ascii_field in other news, herr kaspersky let in comment: https://threatpost.ru/2015/05/20/otstavit-paniku-4096-bitnye-rsa-klyuchi-ne-skomprometirovany/#comment-36991
13:55 mircea_popescu o look at that, quotes me ?!
13:55 mircea_popescu i have nfi.
~ 20 minutes ~
14:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70850 @ 0.00029439 = 20.8575 BTC [+] {3}
14:24 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139915 >> guy's reasonably informed huh.
14:24 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 06:57:41; isaackl: And if Balaji is a USG shill he's a damn good actor
14:25 ben_vulpes claims to have read the logs, even!
14:26 mircea_popescu links to mpoe-pr on forum, even.
14:27 mircea_popescu dude, i remember the time back in 2012 when the pressure cooker wasn't on yet and all sorts of people didn't appear retarded.
14:27 mircea_popescu everyone's a dancer while sitting down.
14:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8182 @ 0.00028793 = 2.3558 BTC [-]
14:30 mike_c <isaackl> Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more << hm, how does the utility of the F35 compare to how much has been spent on it?
14:31 mircea_popescu is that thing even built yet ?
14:31 mircea_popescu "undergoing testing and final development by the United States"
14:31 mircea_popescu mkay, two weeks.
14:31 mike_c depends what you consider the thing. I mean, an "F35" exists, and some things on it work..
14:33 mircea_popescu o look, total budget intended to pass 1 trn
14:33 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
14:34 ascii_field meanwhile... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/20/us_export_controls_0days
14:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55887 @ 0.00028793 = 16.0915 BTC [-]
14:35 ben_vulpes ahaha
14:35 ben_vulpes christ the braindamage.
14:37 mircea_popescu so what, we're not going to allow the us in gossipd ?
14:37 ascii_field in other nyooz, http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.oss.general/16861
14:38 mats mircea_popescu: has been built. lotsa videos around of it doin the hovering trick.
14:38 mircea_popescu heh. it also only has 2 a-a missiles ?
14:38 mats its utilitarian!
14:38 mircea_popescu oic.
14:38 mats does everything and sux at em all.
14:38 mircea_popescu so 2.5k planes of 2 missiles each. the chinese only have like 10k
14:38 mircea_popescu except of course by 10k we mean "can get up in the air at least 10k"
14:39 mats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t0v5FIbb68
14:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66469 @ 0.00029499 = 19.6077 BTC [+] {2}
14:40 mircea_popescu whereas by 2.5k we mean... uh.
14:40 mats short take-off to hover.
14:40 mircea_popescu maybe i miss something, but why do you want a plane to helicopter ?
14:40 ascii_field for use on carriers ?
14:40 mats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW28Mb1YvwY vertical take-off
14:41 mats yeah, carriers and emergency landing zones.
14:41 mats e.g. in the field.
14:41 mircea_popescu but this is a fighter jet, right ?
14:41 mircea_popescu if you stop you're dead anyway
14:41 mats yeah. its stupid. design by committee.
14:41 ascii_field the need for runway is an ancient annoyance to airplane folks
14:41 ascii_field the attempts to do away with it - make sense
14:42 mats osprey's not doing so good so i guess they decided to experiment more with f-35.
14:42 ascii_field (conventional machine on runway is just as vulnerable as 'hoverer')
14:42 mircea_popescu section 3.5 - "some servers in our scans used Java's DSA primes as p,
14:42 mircea_popescu but mistakenly used the DSA group order q in the place of the
14:42 mircea_popescu generator g ... This substitution of q for g is likely due to a
14:42 mircea_popescu usability problem: the canonical ASN.1 representation of
14:42 mircea_popescu Diffie-Hellman key exchange parameters (coming from PKCS#3) is a
14:42 mircea_popescu sequence (p, g), while that of DSA parameters (coming from PKIX) is
14:42 mircea_popescu (p, q, g); we conjecture that the confusion between these formats led
14:42 mircea_popescu to a simple programming error."
14:42 mircea_popescu is this related to mod6 find in any sense ?
14:43 ascii_field not as i understand
14:44 ascii_field (and i'm still at a loss to craft a situation where gpg's p and q will occupy varying number of 'limbs' and lead to catastrophe in the given line)
14:44 ascii_field ^ does not mean that such is impossible
14:45 mircea_popescu "the electronic edge F-35 enjoys over every other tactical aircraft in the world may prove to be more important in future missions than maneuverability" << check it out, it got wifi
14:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28165 @ 0.00029553 = 8.3236 BTC [+] {2}
14:46 ascii_field where do horrors like http://blog.offeryour.com/?p=203240 come from ?
14:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32485 @ 0.00030253 = 9.8277 BTC [+] {2}
14:48 ben_vulpes re: F-35 << "shuttle" debacle all over again
14:49 mircea_popescu the F-35C taking 43 seconds longer than an F-16 to accelerate from Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2
14:49 mircea_popescu aaaaahhahahaah omfg.
14:49 mircea_popescu so they built a spitfire ?
14:51 mircea_popescu "In March 2013, USAF test pilots, flying with pre-operational software that did not utilize the all-aspect infrared AAQ-37 DAS sensor, noted a lack of visibility from the F-35 cockpit during evaluation flights, which would get them consistently shot down in combat."
14:52 mircea_popescu Defense spending analyst Winslow Wheeler concluded from flight evaluation reports that the F-35A "is flawed beyond redemption"; in response, program manager General Chris Bogdan suggested that pilots worried about being shot down should fly cargo aircraft instead.
14:52 mircea_popescu o this shit's epic.
14:57 mats "lets ignore the guys who've been flying the most dangerous air frames in development for twenty years"
14:57 BingoBoingo Updated http://qntra.net/2015/05/weak-4096-bit-rsa-key-in-strong-set-factored-more-factored-keys-follow/
14:58 mike_c davout:gonna get the schneier one to get started << mod6 told me to read this, it is awesome. I feel stupid for not having read it sooner.
14:58 mircea_popescu "Even in its third iteration, the F-35’s helmet continues to show high false-alarm rates and computer stability concerns, seriously reducing pilots’ situational awareness and endangering their lives in combat;"
14:58 mircea_popescu = the closed-source java blob they're using actually reboots in flight
14:59 mircea_popescu nb BingoBoingo
15:01 BingoBoingo The silliest thing about the F-35 clusterfuck is the US had a decent somewhat stealthier plane in the F-22 coming off the line in flyable shape and... It was too expensive. Nao it would have been cheaper.
15:02 mircea_popescu "In all these instances, data reporting and processing rules were changed during the year for no other reason than to paint a more favorable picture. Maintenance problems were determined to be so severe that the F-35 is only able to fly twice a week."
15:02 mircea_popescu dude.
15:02 mircea_popescu no way. come on.
15:02 mats BingoBoingo: well, the F-22 and F-35 do different things.
15:02 mircea_popescu what is this, deliberate slapstick ?
15:02 mats they're intended to fly tandem in combat.
15:03 mircea_popescu mats f22 flies tues, thurs fri, and weekend f35 mon and wed -> tandem ?
15:03 BingoBoingo mats: For some definitions of different (everything the F-35 B&C do-ish)
15:05 BingoBoingo !up ascii_field
15:09 mod6 mike_c: hey! glad you like it :]
15:11 davout mike_c: which edition?
15:11 davout 20th anniversary or 2nd edition?
15:13 mike_c I have 2nd. 20th anniversary looks like just a PR thing? not different content?
15:13 mod6 ya 2nd edition
15:16 davout alrighty, it's also cheaper on amzn
15:21 * davout moves to set camp by the mailbox
15:21 davout fluffypony: you in paris nao?
15:29 ascii_field https://www.stlouisfed.org/news-releases/2015/05/18/password-reset-for-st-louis-fed-research-website-user-accounts << l0ltr0n1c
15:30 ascii_field BingoBoingo ^^
15:30 jurov i heard f35 cannot transition from hover to forward movement
↖
15:30 jurov it has to land and reconfigure itself first
15:30 ascii_field jurov: at least downward movement still worx
15:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58250 @ 0.00030281 = 17.6387 BTC [+]
15:31 jurov dunno why the haven't attached flea legs instead, would work same as vtol
15:32 ascii_field in other nyooz, https://www.incapsula.com/blog/ddos-botnet-soho-router.html << yes, same ubiquiti that made 'edgerouter'
15:33 ascii_field as in, the one sold to iran 'against sanctions' with boobytrap included
15:33 ascii_field (see log)
15:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00029876 = 6.02 BTC [-]
15:45 mircea_popescu also http://40.media.tumblr.com/0ad1205b037f7085346a6ce8ba5b1e9b/tumblr_nolzsi8Iax1skcp7po1_1280.jpg
15:47 mike_c our buddy is leaving! http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/20/new-york-lawsky-departure-idUSL1N0YB1N220150520
15:48 mircea_popescu aww.
15:48 mircea_popescu does it say why ?
15:48 mike_c no.. oddly vague about that. doesn't seem to be a firing.
15:49 ben_vulpes probably wants to spend more time with his family
15:49 mircea_popescu heh.
15:49 mats promoted to head cocksucker. off to DC!
15:49 mircea_popescu !s private eye from:mircea
15:49 assbot 1 results for 'private eye from:mircea' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=private+eye+from%3Amircea
15:49 ben_vulpes ah shit
15:49 mike_c "to start his own legal and consulting firm"
15:49 ben_vulpes s/family/nailgun
15:50 mike_c found the original article on nyt: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/business/dealbook/benjamin-lawsky-to-step-down-as-new-yorks-top-financial-regulator.html
15:53 bitstein "Mr. Lawsky, who has spent his entire two-decade legal career in government, plans to open his own firm and serve as a lecturer at Stanford University, people briefed on the matter said." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/business/dealbook/benjamin-lawsky-to-step-down-as-new-yorks-top-financial-regulator.html
15:54 bitstein whoops, my irc chat wasn't scrolled all the way down
15:54 ben_vulpes hey bitstein
15:54 ben_vulpes http://www.bubblear.com/reminder-get-cash-before-the-weekend/ << lol for all the printing they still can't keep atms full?
15:55 bitstein howdy ben_vulpes
15:55 mircea_popescu it's vtol cash.
15:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00029805 = 5.2159 BTC [-]
15:55 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
15:55 ascii_field 'Unpaid Intern is, as the byline properly describes, an unpaid intern. Unpaid intern is a fresh-out-of-school, wide-eyed journalism grad who thinks one day they will make it to the New York Times. In the meantime they are stuck here, so they better get used to it.'
15:56 ascii_field waitasec
15:56 scoopbot_revived St Louis Federal Reserve Bank DNS Hijacked Last Month http://qntra.net/2015/05/st-louis-federal-reserve-bank-dns-hijacked-last-month/
15:56 bitstein "Democratic state Rep. Senfronia Thompson criticized the company by saying that 'it would have been wiser if Mr. Tesla had sat down with the car dealers first.' But there is no 'Mr. Tesla' involved in the company, which is named after the late inventor Nikola Tesla and is founded and run by Elon Musk." https://fortune.com/2015/05/18/tesla-texas/
15:57 ascii_field why that thing was in english ?
15:57 BingoBoingo !b 2
15:57 assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04FK33X.txt )
15:57 ascii_field the 'bubblear' link, i mean
15:57 ben_vulpes ascii_field: because i'm an esl derp
15:58 ascii_field but, for whom was it posted ?
15:58 mircea_popescu bitstein honestly, the blowing up of the entire "car dealers" bs is pretty much the only thing i actually like about mr tesla.
15:59 BingoBoingo I kinda prefer Tesla's earthquake machine
16:00 bitstein I liked Mr. Tesla's pigeon: https://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/images/pv_pig02.jpg
16:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13754 @ 0.00029429 = 4.0477 BTC [-]
16:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139700 @ 0.0003002 = 41.9379 BTC [+] {3}
16:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47999 @ 0.00029429 = 14.1256 BTC [-]
16:11 mats fun fact: windows 8.1 will sometimes triple fault when bugchecking when a kernel debugger is attached
16:14 davout can someone explain to me how i'm able to malloc into existence more than 1tb, fill the first byte with some random int, and have valgrind report the massive allocated space. all this with a whopping 4gb ram and 512gb hdd?
16:14 davout "in use at exit: 1,155,346,237,534 bytes in 1,500 blocks" <<< oO
16:15 ascii_field davout: iirc he was tracking whole box, not bitcoind per se
16:15 mircea_popescu notrly valgrind's problem, this. if system reports it as allocated, it's allocated as far as its concerned
16:15 mircea_popescu what kernel is this ?
16:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134042 @ 0.000289 = 38.7381 BTC [-] {4}
16:15 davout it's on osx
16:16 Apocalyptic lol
16:16 davout fucking around with C, this confuses me
16:16 mircea_popescu prolly some osx cleverness ?
16:16 davout mebbe
16:17 davout i'm afraid if i try on an ec2 box i'll accidentally break the internet
16:17 mircea_popescu ascii_field : http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/89713/offline-rsa-strong-prime-test-similar-to-phuctor << shilling intensifies!
16:18 mircea_popescu nao, linking "phuctor" anchor to usg-replacement.
16:18 ascii_field 'no real world impact'
16:18 ascii_field tr0l0l0l
16:20 Apocalyptic mircea, that's hilarious
16:22 ben_vulpes <davout> i'm afraid if i try on an ec2 box i'll accidentally break the internet << "we can therefore we must"
16:22 davout lol
16:23 mircea_popescu !up Landgull
16:23 Landgull Oh, thank you. I don't really have anything to say, though, I'm here to listen.
16:23 mircea_popescu cool.
16:24 Apocalyptic anyway "factored" in this sense doesn't mean much
16:25 mircea_popescu which sense ?
16:26 Apocalyptic in the sense of finding a prime factor of a modulus that has more than 2
16:26 Apocalyptic I mean you can get a standard 4096-bit sane RSA key, multiply N by 3 and there you go
16:26 * mircea_popescu is not following.
16:27 Apocalyptic someone "factors" it, finds the 3, but the key is still as strong as the sane one you started with
16:27 mircea_popescu well, it's complicated.
16:27 mircea_popescu suppose the exponent was 3.
16:27 Apocalyptic public exponent or private ?
16:27 mircea_popescu !up ascii_field
16:27 ascii_field ty mircea_popescu
16:28 ascii_field Apocalyptic: read mircea_popescu's latest article to learn how the bulk of the booby keys were generated
16:28 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic iirc shcneier actually was recommending e=3 (d is the private traditionally)
16:28 Apocalyptic ascii_field, I will
16:28 ascii_field Apocalyptic: you can actually create them on your own, given the info
16:28 Apocalyptic i'm just commenting on the first invalid subkey that was discussed
16:28 ascii_field the result is essentially same as using a random integer as a modulus
16:28 ascii_field i.e., likely to be pollard-rho-able and/or lenstra-able.
16:29 ascii_field conceivably some of the resulting moduli are even... prime.
16:29 ascii_field i certainly have not tested for this.
16:30 Apocalyptic <ascii_field> conceivably some of the resulting moduli are even... prime. // would be trivial to check
16:30 ascii_field aha
16:30 ascii_field but the reason why malefactor did this 'random' bit,
16:30 ascii_field is almost certainly because statistically - these are -easy- to break apart.
16:31 ascii_field and give some plausible deniability, as we saw, at least works on idiots
16:31 ascii_field 'cosmic rays', 'bad blocks on disks'
16:31 Apocalyptic anyway mircea it was just to say that in this case I would call it factor only if modulus is totally broken into primes, something i've referred as full factoring, otherwise not much you can do
16:32 ascii_field Apocalyptic: properly lenstra-ing these is certainly on the agenda
16:32 ascii_field but not #1
16:33 Apocalyptic (note that this isn't even stricly a RSA key anymore)
16:33 Apocalyptic *strictly
16:33 ascii_field violates every assumption behind hardness of rsa, yes
16:33 Apocalyptic ascii_field, ok, would love to compare the results when you're done, i'm throwing some stuff at it atm
16:33 ascii_field which was the intent of whoever crafted it, yes.
16:33 ascii_field neato
16:35 ascii_field http://security.stackexchange.com/a/89718/76928
16:36 ascii_field for what it's worth
16:37 Apocalyptic ascii_field, of the 19 broken moduli so far how many are actually valid subkeys ?
16:38 ascii_field Apocalyptic: at least two, iirc, had valid sigs. The remainder divide into ones with invalid selfsigs and ones with absent ones entirely (stripped)
16:38 ascii_field i will do a proper tally shortly
16:38 ascii_field incidentally you can run the heuristic finder yourself
16:39 ascii_field comment out the bit with 'giant exponents'
16:39 ascii_field (these are rampant, >1300 instances alone)
16:41 scoopbot_revived frantic activity as a defense against impotence - with poop! http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/05/20_frantic-activity-as-a-defense-against-impotence-with-poop.html
16:41 ascii_field at the moment, i would like to collect a sample of material signed with one of the -legit- keys for which a 'magic' key exists
16:41 ascii_field and see what happens when one actually tries to verify the signature with 'magic' key (and its bizarre composite mega-exponent) as reference
16:42 ascii_field example: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=lou%40ece.cmu.edu&op=index
16:43 ascii_field top result is 'magic'
16:43 hanbot how do you know you're even seeing all/most of the magic keys? maybe they were not intended to show up in public servers, and end there through some error/leak
16:43 ascii_field next one (also 2-02) is legit key
16:43 ascii_field hanbot: if it isn't on sks, it isn't really public is it
16:43 hanbot exactly
16:43 hanbot maybe this is the iceberg tip of some sort of process not really intended to be visible
16:43 ascii_field afaik the only possible point of crafting these -was- to disseminate them publicly as spurious copies of the real thing
16:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147200 @ 0.00028083 = 41.3382 BTC [-] {2}
16:50 mircea_popescu hanbot seems improbable.
16:51 ascii_field hanbot: and clearly the process, whatever it was, did not want to be found. but it does appear to consist of fucking with purported -public- keys and therefore intrinsically findable.
16:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76542 @ 0.00028208 = 21.591 BTC [+]
16:52 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic well, "totally broken". depends what you're trying to do and so on. having a known small factor is already breakage
16:52 mircea_popescu ie, you wouldn't use that key.
16:52 ascii_field given as the bulk of the samples consist of the owner's own moduli with every other 32-bit word doubled (overwriting its neighbour) - the amount of 'crafting' appears to be minimal. in this particular case (there were other breakable keys.)
16:52 hanbot hm.
16:53 Apocalyptic mircea_popescu, it is breakage in the sense it reduces the apparent security, the key may still be pretty much alright
16:53 ascii_field thing about small factors is that we have them here because the moduli are essentially random shots in the integer dark.
16:53 ascii_field how likely is 'all right' key when shooting at random ?
16:53 Apocalyptic (if intentionnaly made this way)
16:53 mircea_popescu i dun see this argument.
16:53 mircea_popescu anyway, you could just run a probabilistic test on it.
16:53 Apocalyptic mircea_popescu, ok, let's start again
16:53 ascii_field Apocalyptic: read mircea_popescu's article where litmus.py appears.
16:54 mircea_popescu !up Hasimir
16:54 Apocalyptic let's say I take the two secret primes of my present key
16:54 mircea_popescu go ahead
16:54 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic aha.
16:54 Hasimir well, let's see there's Rob Hansen's key
16:54 Apocalyptic I multiply then the modulus N by 3 (or any other small prime, the value doesn't matter)
↖
16:55 Hasimir RSA flaw?
16:55 ascii_field Apocalyptic: except that this is not how it was done
16:55 Hasimir his key is DSA2 & El-Gamal
16:55 Apocalyptic I submit it to phuctor, its screams "Moduli factored !"
16:55 ascii_field Apocalyptic: bugger took every other 32-bit word and copied over neighbour.
16:55 Apocalyptic but the key is still as strong as my original
16:55 mircea_popescu Hasimir "Rob Hansen" doesn't appear on the page ?
16:55 Apocalyptic <ascii_field> Apocalyptic: except that this is not how it was done // exactly
16:55 Hasimir no. 92 & 93
16:56 Hasimir in Stan's list of "we have your private keys"
16:56 mircea_popescu aha
16:56 Apocalyptic i'm just trying to show that finding a small factor is not inherently breaking the key
16:56 mircea_popescu lemme fish them out for you a sec.
16:56 ascii_field Hasimir: whos key is this
16:56 ascii_field Hasimir: we only see it here if it had one or more rsa subkeys.
16:56 Hasimir rjh@sixdemonbag
16:56 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic finding a small factor is not inherently breaking a specially crafted key that was made to have that one small factor, yes.
16:56 mircea_popescu this isn't the assumption here
16:56 mircea_popescu ascii_field ima get the key one sec.
16:56 Hasimir it has an rsa signing subkey
16:56 ascii_field Hasimir: there we go.
16:56 ascii_field so that'd be it
16:57 Hasimir but the rest of it isn't
16:57 Apocalyptic ascii_field, as the poeple whose key you're listing probably didn't craft it this way, it's very probable that it's further broken, yes
16:57 mircea_popescu Hasimir doh.
16:57 mircea_popescu well, it would be the rsa wouldn't it.
16:57 ascii_field Hasimir: we don't deal with the rest of it.
16:57 Hasimir which means no getting the private cert or decryption
16:57 Apocalyptic <mircea_popescu> Apocalyptic finding a small factor is not inherently breaking a specially crafted key that was made to have that one small factor, yes. // this is all i was arguing :)
16:57 ascii_field the experiment specifically concerns moduli, not keys. a key contains zero or more rsa moduli
16:57 Hasimir ascii_field, just the signing subkey?
16:58 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic well sure, theoretical theory. but if you run a factorizing algo on any of the keys you'll see they break apart.
16:58 mircea_popescu !up ascii_field
16:58 ascii_field Apocalyptic: there is a reason why generating proper rsa keys is cpu-expensive
16:58 Apocalyptic I know
16:58 Hasimir ascii_field, then claiming to have derived the private key is a wee bit disingenuous
16:58 Apocalyptic and yes if found in the wild, the assumption you are making is a safe assumption
16:59 ascii_field barring some entirely unknown and very interesting number-theoretical result, the word-doubling is overwhelmingly likely to yield an 'easy' modulus.
16:59 mircea_popescu Hasimir wouldja quote the claim you speak of ?
16:59 Hasimir sure one tic
16:59 Hasimir "Are you on this list ? We probably have your private key"
16:59 ascii_field Hasimir: private key naturally would correspond to the phony key
16:59 mircea_popescu Hasimir so what's disingenuous ?
17:00 Hasimir alright, if it's not, what method did you use to crack el-gamal?
17:00 ascii_field and go apply pollard rho, and lenstra, you will have the private. you don't even need us for this
17:00 ascii_field Hasimir: we don't deal in el gamal!
17:00 ascii_field or dsa
17:00 mircea_popescu it's a rsa factorization service.
17:00 ascii_field or '22: proprietary reserved algo'
17:00 Hasimir which is the point
17:00 ascii_field (yes, lots of these. wtf)
17:01 mircea_popescu Hasimir i do not see this point.
17:01 mircea_popescu the way text works is not that reader is free to make whatever assumptions he wishes and it is the responsibility of the text to explicitly dispel them
17:01 Hasimir ok, let me see if I'm reading the article correctly
17:01 mircea_popescu the way text works is that the reader has the job of forming a mental image that does not contradict the text.
17:02 Hasimir you only deal with rsa, you only claim to have rsa priv keys, but you list dsa/elgamal keys as broken ...
17:02 mircea_popescu i dun see dsa/elgamal keys were listedf.
17:02 ascii_field mircea_popescu: he appears to be taking issue with interchangeable use of 'keys' and 'moduli'
17:02 Hasimir this one: 0x23806BE5D6B98E10
17:02 mircea_popescu in general, one's at liberty to create a Patented Leather Assymetric Key and give it his name
17:02 mircea_popescu if he also has a rsa key by the same name, he will be in the list of rsa keys.
17:03 mircea_popescu ascii_field except a modulus does not exist outside of a key.
17:03 ascii_field Hasimir: understand, someone can create a key containing an rsa modulus of the kind described here using a modified copy of your, e.g., el gamal, key
17:03 ascii_field and it will show on our list
17:03 Hasimir ah
17:03 mircea_popescu pgp has no way to enforce names
17:04 Hasimir true
17:04 mircea_popescu you can create a key for obama and sks will list "obama's" key.
17:04 mircea_popescu what's one to do ?
17:04 Hasimir as all the president@whitehouse.gov ones prove
17:04 mircea_popescu now, of that list, at least some are thoroughly broken
17:04 mircea_popescu two examples are given there, each with two moduli with 8-12 digit factos known
17:04 mircea_popescu some others are yet unknown
17:04 ascii_field Hasimir: the shenanigans exposed appear to have an intent which includes - but not necessarily limited to - passing off spurious rsa keys for various names
17:05 Hasimir which is why you need to specify the key ids, otherwise you're spreading unnecessary panic
17:05 mircea_popescu hence "probably". and hence http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140223
17:05 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 11:53:36; *: mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.
17:05 ascii_field Hasimir: so far each of the cases i have examined in detail had -at least one- legit rsa modulus in subkeys
17:06 mircea_popescu Hasimir you have read the paragraph at the beginning yes ?
17:06 ascii_field and the panic is entirely the work of the enemy, who is passing around the idiot strawman that 'rsa was broken. oh wait, no it wasn't! disregard the whole thing!'
17:06 Hasimir yes
17:07 ascii_field btw, re: random numbers as moduli: https://primes.utm.edu/howmany.html#pi_def
17:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00027831 = 4.8008 BTC [-] {2}
17:08 ascii_field ^ mandatory
17:08 Hasimir alright then, take a crack at mine, same one as used with -otc and in my /ns info
17:08 mircea_popescu Hasimir if it's been already processed you can see yourself the result
17:08 mircea_popescu if not, it will be
17:08 Hasimir it has been, but reprocessing hasn't occurred in 2 years
17:08 mircea_popescu wut ?!
17:08 Hasimir I checked it in 2013
17:08 ascii_field Hasimir: add it to the queue
17:09 mircea_popescu i have no idea what you're saying.
17:09 Apocalyptic phuctor was live in 2013 ?
17:09 mircea_popescu yes, as it happens, oct.
17:09 Apocalyptic aha
17:09 mircea_popescu Hasimir just put the pubkey in the box and it'll tell you if it has or hasn't
17:10 ascii_field i will be very surprised when a 'proper' pubkey that some fella actually has on his own box, fails the test
17:10 mircea_popescu ascii_field some that had only broken moduli, in pairs.
17:10 ascii_field mircea_popescu: quite a few. which is consistent with the 'random bits make terrible rsa moduli' thing.
17:11 mircea_popescu aha.
17:11 ascii_field were all of them even odd, lol
17:11 mircea_popescu yes
17:11 ascii_field at least this.
17:11 mircea_popescu we blessfully don't have 2~!11 as a factor yet
17:11 mircea_popescu that'd be the sadness of all time.
17:11 danielpbarron my key won't retest http://nosuchlabs.com/redo/95766AA607AF0D2958AD7EF0F23B26DDC565F10A2C8012715B137E6459C63C4B?
17:12 mircea_popescu there's no such thing as a retest
17:12 mircea_popescu oh, is it rebuilding the P huh ascii_field
17:12 ascii_field aha
17:13 mircea_popescu danielpbarron server's atm busy with a large computation which is why it's not answering ya
17:15 Hasimir ascii_field, where's the code you use to run these tests anyway?
17:15 ascii_field Hasimir: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/werker.c
17:16 Hasimir cool
17:16 ascii_field very simple, but works.
17:16 Hasimir sqlite3 db full of keys ... ouch
17:17 Hasimir though probably better than the sks solution
17:17 ascii_field Hasimir: whole thing was ~2 days' work
17:18 ascii_field so not optimal by any measure
17:18 Hasimir yeah, you might want to look at the keybox (.kbx) format used in gpg 2.1, designed to improve lookup speed with larger keyrings
17:19 Hasimir though you'll lose all the v2 keys
17:19 ascii_field no thanks.
17:19 Hasimir but then we should probably lose them anyway
17:20 ascii_field ?
17:20 Hasimir ok, these weak ones you found, have you identified a common generation program?
17:20 mircea_popescu nope.
17:20 mircea_popescu they're not even all in the same class.
17:20 Hasimir and v2 keys == pgp 2.3 to pgp 2.6(i)
17:20 mircea_popescu at least two, maybe three different types so far
17:21 Hasimir do they all have subkeys or not?
17:21 ascii_field Hasimir: read carefully. we do not know where they came from. but the largest class we identified so far appears to consist of carefully crafted spurious keys, made with a particular transformation of original legit ones.
17:21 mircea_popescu all what ?
17:21 Hasimir well, that list 160 reads like regular posters to the enigmail mailing list
17:21 Hasimir or possibly gnupg-users
17:21 mircea_popescu tbh, someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation to me sometime. fucking pseudohierarchy devoid of meaning.
17:21 Hasimir I recognise most of the names
17:21 mircea_popescu they're all keys. how you package them is irrelevant
17:22 mircea_popescu Hasimir i am aware.
17:27 trinque heh sqlite always comes up as "not fast" in conversation
17:27 trinque I wonder if anyone ever tests this hypothesis
17:28 ascii_field trinque: was going for 'simple' rather than 'fast'
17:28 trinque sure, I am saying I've personally never found sqlite3 to be slow
17:29 trinque probably comes with comparisons to key-value stores that do barely anything aside retrieve by key
17:29 mircea_popescu trinque seems it has issues wiht locking
17:31 trinque ah yeah I guess it's bad at concurrent writes; that's fair
17:32 jurov someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation << guess mr.zimmermann overengineered it and then left to rot
17:32 jurov GNU picked it up then
17:33 fluffypony davout: yes - had supper at Le Keller
17:33 trinque https://www.sqlite.org/wal.html << I think this helps
17:34 fluffypony which was very nice
17:34 davout fluffypony: neat! never been there
17:34 trinque !up Hasimir
17:34 davout fluffypony: what are you keeping yourself busy with tomorrow? visiting?
17:34 fluffypony I need to tweak the presentation a bit, so the wife will go to the spa for a couple of hours
17:35 davout ah you took her with, nice!
17:35 fluffypony and then we'll probably do the Louvre because we haven't been in AGES
17:35 davout it's pretty massive
17:36 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
17:36 fluffypony yeah I know, but neither of us are terribly au fait with it, so we'll just dip our toe in;)
17:36 ascii_field https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=zarghani.s%40gmail.com&op=index
17:37 ascii_field << example of someone for whom only breakable key is on sks
17:47 Apocalyptic ascii_field, this may be more affordable to fully factor than HPA invalid's
17:49 ascii_field Apocalyptic: as a general rule, an rsa modulus generated without regard to rules (primality testing, pollard-rho, the lot) is cheap to factor.
17:49 ascii_field the authors of the fakes also relied on the 'plausible deniability' of using random crud rather than proper mods
17:49 Apocalyptic well given what i've tried on that HPA's i would not fully concur here
17:50 ascii_field for all we know, this is a straight 'dos' and no one actually knew the privates to these
17:51 ascii_field and the purpose was to force the victims to revert to plaintext
17:51 Apocalyptic that's a possibility yes
17:51 ascii_field there is also mircea_popescu's 'magic flag' hypothesis.
17:51 Apocalyptic I guess maybe e isn't even prime with phi(N) on those
17:51 Apocalyptic and as such there is no private to even begin with
17:51 ascii_field Apocalyptic: look at the e
17:51 Apocalyptic haven't looked
17:54 jurov 's got a "new" n900... after just a few hours it's clear why nokia had to be gutted
17:57 ascii_field jurov: ?
17:57 jurov ascii_field: you ever had it?
17:57 ascii_field nope
17:58 jurov it's..debian
17:58 jurov true one, not something android-bastardized
17:58 ascii_field what of the baseband ?
↖
17:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109700 @ 0.00027506 = 30.1741 BTC [-] {3}
17:59 jurov i guess it's a device osmocom-gsm hackers use
18:00 jurov but if i'm ever getting into such uber-illegal territory, i'm not advertising it here
18:03 jurov i stand corrected, it's not this one
18:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76410 @ 0.00027383 = 20.9234 BTC [-]
~ 22 minutes ~
18:27 mircea_popescu jurov something like that.
18:28 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic what have you tried ?
18:29 Apocalyptic asciilifeform, somehow pgpdump refuses to print info about the invalid subkey, or at least I don't see the keyid referenced the way I see it for the master key and the signature packets
18:29 Apocalyptic I suppose it's the same as the master one though, so this situation can't happen since e is itself a prime
18:30 Apocalyptic mircea_popescu, rho pollard plus countless iterations of ECM for reasonable bounds assuming there is a 20-30 prime digit factor in the modulus reminder
18:31 Apocalyptic I guess i'm gonna have to keep increasing it for a while
18:31 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic you know it'd be halpful if youactually counted them / documented the attempts
18:31 Apocalyptic I do count them
18:31 Apocalyptic I will post a report if it leads to something, or if somebody wants it
18:33 mircea_popescu well how many is countless ?
18:33 Apocalyptic around 3000 probabilistic runs
18:33 mircea_popescu and all for 10-20 digit ?
18:34 Apocalyptic this should find any prime factor under *30* digits even
18:35 Apocalyptic after 430 runs the probability of error is something like 1/e if I remember and if this doc is correct
18:37 mircea_popescu depends a lot on the rng too
18:38 Apocalyptic well that's why you run it multiple times
18:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57490 @ 0.00026437 = 15.1986 BTC [-]
18:38 mircea_popescu no, you run it multiple times because it's probabilistic.
18:38 mircea_popescu that doesn't fix a bad rng
18:38 Apocalyptic oh, you mean that
18:38 mircea_popescu (not saying it's likely the case, anyway)
18:39 Apocalyptic yeah probably not
18:39 mircea_popescu mind trying lenstra ?
18:40 mircea_popescu eh nm you did say ecm.
18:40 Apocalyptic yeah, afaik ecm is lenstra
18:41 mircea_popescu for some reason i was thinking you're doing rabin-miller
18:41 Apocalyptic isn't that just a primality test ?
18:41 mircea_popescu it is yeah. i need moar sleeps.
18:42 mircea_popescu (it does sometimes yield a factor, but not reliably)
18:43 mircea_popescu anyway. laters all!
18:44 Apocalyptic laters
18:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12969 @ 0.0002807 = 3.6404 BTC [+]
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19:02 danielpbarron https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/601159325973946368
19:03 danielpbarron Bram Cohen: It's difficult for me to convey just how profoundly idiotic the BitShare mining chip is.
19:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7636 @ 0.0002807 = 2.1434 BTC [+]
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19:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114739 @ 0.00027428 = 31.4706 BTC [-]
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19:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103500 @ 0.00026787 = 27.7245 BTC [-] {3}
20:01 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: tbh, someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation to me sometime. fucking pseudohierarchy devoid of meaning. << Within your big GPG keyblock you can have multiple keys, say a 4096 RSA for signing and another 4096 to encrypt to. Beyond that you can keep stuffing moar keys in there just because...
20:05 danielpbarron ;;isup 8ch.net
20:05 gribble 8ch.net is down
20:05 danielpbarron https://twitter.com/infinitechan/status/601176574713569280 >> Load balancer crashed. I asked datacenter for assistance with it. It apparently overheated, fan might be broken. More updates to come.
↖
20:05 danielpbarron b-a crashed 8chan!
20:06 trinque lol!
20:06 trinque BingoBoingo: https://wiki.debian.org/Subkeys << clear as mud
20:08 trinque and aside that, may the words should, associated, and all other "ignore the gap" terms be put to the spike
20:09 trinque do I understand correctly that you use a "signing key" to sign your various subkeys, thus associating them with one identity?
20:10 BingoBoingo trinque: Ideally, but...
20:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121757 @ 0.00026256 = 31.9685 BTC [-] {2}
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
21:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49295 @ 0.00026832 = 13.2268 BTC [+]
21:34 bad_duck Hi, maybe someone could help me here..? ( http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/36p1i8/looking_for_some_data_about_time_between_blocks/ ) tl;dr -> I'm looking for some data about time between blocks (cannot rely on timestamps in blocks), if someone has some logs / know where to find this? thx!
21:40 funkenstein_ bad_duck, if you can't rely on the timestamps on the blocks what timestamps can you rely on?
21:42 danielpbarron data signed by WoT members
21:42 funkenstein_ hehe good point
21:43 danielpbarron does debug.log record the date from the block? or the time on my computer when the block was relayed?
21:43 bad_duck danielpbarron | data signed by WoT members <-- I hope to find a "relyable" person, but yes I'll have to trust him
21:44 bad_duck danielpbarron: yes, I have this info in my debug.log but my node is only running for 1-2 months...
21:44 danielpbarron remember to copy it into a different location
21:48 bad_duck danielpbarron: anyway I want some more data so I'm looking for someone who is listening the network for a long time / has logs
21:48 danielpbarron i don't think debug.log would give you the info you want
21:50 bad_duck danielpbarron: dependd if the node is running for a long time, it has it after the initial sync (and some missing / wrong poing after downtime when resync / getting last blocks)
21:51 danielpbarron my log doesn't have this UpdateTip thing
21:52 bad_duck hmm, mine has, things like that :
21:52 bad_duck 2015-05-21 01:28:34 UpdateTip: new best=00000.... height=357347 log2_work=82.81497 tx=69326602 date=2015-05-21 01:28:05
21:52 bad_duck 2015-05-21 01:30:13 UpdateTip: new best=00000.... height=357348 log2_work=82.815005 tx=69326669 date=2015-05-21 01:27:51
21:52 danielpbarron also, you can do just grep UpdateTip .bitcoin/debug.log
21:52 bad_duck for the last 2 blocks, on the left my timestamp, on the right the timestamp in block
21:54 bad_duck but the node need to be connected / synched to get the "right" timestamp, during initial sync / update after downtime the timestamp on the left would likely be wrong
21:54 danielpbarron mine just has the date in the block (version 0.7.2 and 0.5.3.x)
21:55 bad_duck bitcoind? that's some old versions!
21:56 danielpbarron http://thebitcoin.foundation/
21:59 bad_duck ok, I see
22:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00026739 = 6.3505 BTC [-]
22:10 jurov http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140965 looked into it,unlike others the modem actually does not have access to memory or storage, communicates to cpu via uart
22:10 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 21:58:54; ascii_field: what of the baseband ?
22:14 jurov http://blog.sec-consult.com/2015/05/kcodes-netusb-how-small-taiwanese.html provided it doesn't do stuff like this...
22:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 201608 @ 0.00025879 = 52.1741 BTC [-] {4}
22:22 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140385 < free herring is nice, but plenty of other places have free herring/oil/usg favors
↖
22:22 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 14:30:35; mircea_popescu: for as long as the free herring still lasts, they can run around derping about how they meditatively comprehensified the deep secrets of the universe.
22:22 decimation why don't we have someone here from egypt derping about arab freedom
22:24 decimation !up AdrianoOliveira
22:24 decimation !up shesek
22:24 jurov decimation: they are already in germany building nordic system
↖
22:24 AdrianoOliveira thanks decimation
22:25 decimation AdrianoOliveira: what brings you here
22:26 AdrianoOliveira i was a regular "listener" here... but I am absent for the last couple months
22:27 AdrianoOliveira basically I first came here while studying the pricing of bitcoin options
22:27 decimation where does anyone trade bitcoin options?
22:28 jurov !up nubbins`
22:29 decimation jurov: lol good point - except I thought it was mostly turks
22:29 AdrianoOliveira that's the problem... there is not negotiation at all.
22:29 jurov heh do tell
22:29 AdrianoOliveira I started pricing a model for them for the brazilian market (basically an option which would cover the risks of dolar and bitcoin)
22:30 AdrianoOliveira but I didn't go beyond the model/backtest
22:30 decimation jurov: note that ms. socialism failed to acknowledge that part
22:31 jurov decimation no she'd see it a confirmation "yes they know it's good, too"
22:31 decimation heh yeah. is slovenia full of ethnics too?
22:31 jurov AdrianoOliveira: I recently asked local atm owner about selling some, he quoted me 200eur/btc
22:32 jurov and i was like..wtf he gets bitcoins at such price?
22:32 jurov there are too much we don't know
22:33 decimation jurov: I suspect much btc trading happens over the counter
22:35 jurov yeah, i suppose it's better to sell 10% lower under the counter and avoid taxes
22:36 jurov and dunno about slovenia, ask kako
22:36 AdrianoOliveira decimation: at least for the Brazilian market I can confirm that... today's volume at local exchanges was about 280 BTC and I got a user offering me 140 out of exchanges
↖
22:36 AdrianoOliveira and I am not one of the big players here
22:37 AdrianoOliveira jurov: besides the taxes, if they try to sell/buy larger quantities they will move the market faster againt them
22:37 decimation jurov: right you are slovak right?
22:37 decimation AdrianoOliveira: 280 seems pretty low
22:38 jurov yes, slovak :) and no ethnies here, only a few in capital
22:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103200 @ 0.00026356 = 27.1994 BTC [+]
22:38 decimation jurov: do many people speak german there?
22:39 AdrianoOliveira decimation: it is indeed. most brazilians avoid the exchanges for several reasons... also people lost interest since the $1000/btc
22:39 jurov dunno, germans/aunstrians prefer english
22:39 decimation AdrianoOliveira: they only want to trade it if it is 'rich'?
22:39 jurov decimation: they want to HODL
22:40 decimation ;;ud HODL
22:40 gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hodl | hodl isn't defined. ... Ho Dip · hodizzle · hodjo · hodl · Hodlbups · Hodle · hodlickle · Hodling · HODMAN · Hodnet · Hodo · ho dog · ho dog cool · Ho Doh Doh Doh ...
22:40 jurov obv that won't work if it's going down
22:40 AdrianoOliveira decimation: lol... it seems they avoid buying it if it is cheap... it is better to buy high and sell low, hehe
22:41 decimation I donno, it seems to me that as long as any money is going into bitcoin, the 'price' relative to fiat is going to increas
22:41 decimation so if that's the case, bitcoin is 'on sale'
22:42 decimation AdrianoOliveira: I've heard that during the hyperinflation in brazil, most people held gold in bank deposit boxes
22:43 jurov decimation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375643.0;all
22:44 AdrianoOliveira decimation: I was just a kid at that time so I can't confirm... but I remember for instance that people run into the supermarket on the same day they received they paycheck to buy groceries because prices used to double overnight
22:44 decimation jurov: heh
22:44 decimation AdrianoOliveira: right so people ought to remember that it's a good idea to HODL a strong currency
22:46 AdrianoOliveira decimation: at least for the older ones that's true... people under 30 actually don't remember/didn't experience that
22:47 AdrianoOliveira these just want to buy something that is skyrocketing to sell in a couple days for a profit
22:47 AdrianoOliveira as it is not the case anymore, they are loosing interest on bitcoin
22:47 * trinque recalls the rabid euphoria on /r/bitcoinmarkets
22:48 decimation ;;ticker
22:48 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.24, Best ask: 234.26, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 234.24, 24 hour volume: 11363.15894438, 24 hour low: 231.72, 24 hour high: 235.24, 24 hour vwap: None
22:48 decimation I remember the haters all complaining that bitcoin was 'not stable'
↖
22:48 decimation now it's stable, and they want it to go to the moon
22:49 jurov http://fortune.com/2015/05/20/reddit-free-speech-ellen-pao/ "misogynist and racist “subreddits” popping up frequently"
22:50 jurov ofc
22:50 decimation adriano: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103354 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103356
22:50 assbot Logged on 17-04-2015 09:25:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103247 << imo brazil is headed straight for mexico fail mode.
22:50 assbot Logged on 17-04-2015 09:25:23; mircea_popescu: this is not recoverable.
22:50 trinque jurov: they've got some new SJW policy about being a "safe place"
22:51 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market buttfinex
22:51 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.24, Best ask: 234.36, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 234.24, 24 hour volume: 11326.24280465, 24 hour low: 231.72, 24 hour high: 235.24, 24 hour vwap: None
22:52 BingoBoingo ^ asking price goes up when you call the ticker and address your chosen market with its "butt" name
22:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211120 @ 0.00025785 = 54.4373 BTC [-] {2}
22:52 AdrianoOliveira decimation: our economy is a mess at the moment... and I don't think things will be back on track soon.
23:03 funkenstein_ decimation: I stumbled across you in an odd place
23:03 funkenstein_ "Major thirds move quickly around the 53-note circle of fifths, because of the decimation chosen to give preference to the fifth as representing the smallest change."
23:06 * BingoBoingo prefers circle of circle of minor fifths, prefers the devil's note
23:08 BingoBoingo 7th's major or minor also cool unless the rest of the chord is being filled in
23:11 mircea_popescu https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/597631037569634304/p81c93Ed.jpg << dude dpb actually has a better beard than me
23:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re: proposed article: any value above 3 which satisfies the traditional recipe (where n = pq, public e is less than n-1, and relatively prime to p-1 and q-1) will work.
23:12 decimation funkenstein_: hehe wtf
23:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i meanwhile added some more notes!
23:12 mircea_popescu (just published it)
23:12 mircea_popescu that is one of them
23:12 asciilifeform neato.
23:12 decimation funkenstein_: I was unaware of the musical use of the term
23:12 mircea_popescu i always thought that's the reference o.O
23:12 mircea_popescu how DID you come up with the nick then ? you terrorist you.
23:12 decimation no it's a reference to signal processing
23:12 mircea_popescu o
23:13 mircea_popescu these two are related.
23:13 decimation yeah kinda
23:13 decimation 'drop N of K items'
23:13 asciilifeform i always assumed it was the roman decimation, l0l
23:13 decimation or kill a tenth of your legion
23:13 decimation for failing
23:13 asciilifeform for, properly speaking, being unlucky
23:13 decimation it's a convenient double meaning
23:14 asciilifeform (how do you make a legion luckier?)
23:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106850 @ 0.00025603 = 27.3568 BTC [-]
23:14 decimation fight derpy natives instead of battle hardened germans?
23:15 asciilifeform 'you go to war with the enemy you have, not the enemy you wish you had' (TM) (R)
23:15 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141011 << shit i had noticed the traffic was drooping
23:15 assbot Logged on 21-05-2015 00:05:37; danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/infinitechan/status/601176574713569280 >> Load balancer crashed. I asked datacenter for assistance with it. It apparently overheated, fan might be broken. More updates to come.
23:15 mircea_popescu copypaste our condolences!
23:16 decimation http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2339&pr=0 < "Neanderthals who survived into their thirties looked like they had been pulled out of a Humvee that was hit by an IED. One fellow was missing an eye, an arm, a thumb and a foot! These guys suffered from no known diseases. However, their main food [according to chemical analysis of their bones] was the auroch?basically a rodeo bull?which they had to kill be wrestling with it, stabb
23:17 copypaste no problem :)
23:17 mircea_popescu decimation fwiw, he's entirely nuts on that score.
23:17 mircea_popescu yes neanderthals hunted. this was accomplished principally by outrunning smallish game. a sort of a dodo bird, some early antelope etc.
23:17 decimation you don't think they killed a giant auroch by hand
23:17 trinque "endurance hunting" was the thing right?
23:17 mircea_popescu they surely did occasionally. neanderthals are kinda like monkeys.
23:18 mircea_popescu but it was not, i would guess, above 10% of energetic input. prolly safe to say 1% or less.
23:18 decimation well, if the practice continued into roman times, I wouldn't want to face some dude who wrested an auroch and won
23:19 mircea_popescu decimation the derpy european bear (small, brown guy, about 4 foot tall standing) is to this day (or rather, the 1800s) an informal "absolute top of young male physical ability"
23:20 mircea_popescu ie, 1 kid in 100 COULD wrestle one.
23:20 mircea_popescu but the bear is playful. nobody is fucking wrestling a bull solo.
23:20 mircea_popescu and especially not 50k eyars ago auroch.
23:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125641 @ 0.00026789 = 33.658 BTC [+] {4}
23:21 decimation yeah it does seem rather dubious
23:21 mircea_popescu it was a group effort, iof/when it happened, and oportunistic
23:21 decimation also why not just spear/trap/arrow or whatever
23:21 mircea_popescu (wounded animal, etc)
23:21 mircea_popescu because they didn't have them or know how to use them.
23:21 mircea_popescu understand : people of year 52015 will say "humans had internet" sure, they did. so ?
23:22 mircea_popescu 99% of population uses internet exploder.
23:22 mircea_popescu just because there's proof sylex spears were used by ns does not mean a superarmy of drilled regiments of standard-uniformed neanderthals.
23:22 decimation that's a good point, but it seems that a deadfall is pretty obvious
23:23 decimation or a pit with pointy sticks
23:23 mircea_popescu you think animals are stupid ?
23:23 mircea_popescu go hunt sometime.
23:24 mircea_popescu you think a pit large enough to host a bull is trivial ? go fucking dig out a regulation latrine with a shard of dinner plate!
23:24 mircea_popescu (or calculate the caloric value of the bull and the caloric expenditure of the dig)
23:25 decimation ^ that's a good point
23:25 decimation although an auroch would feed a tribe for awhile
23:26 asciilifeform same while as feeds 1
23:26 mircea_popescu no. rich meat is 3-4 calories / gram. a one ton bull made of no bones is worth 3-4Mcal tops.
23:26 asciilifeform (meat sans preservation, 'parallelizes' but not 'serializes')
23:26 scoopbot_revived The issue of exponents in RSA http://trilema.com/2015/the-issue-of-exponents-in-rsa/
23:27 mircea_popescu yeah, asciilifeform has a point. eat it that day or lose it
23:27 mircea_popescu (not to derpy bacteria. to jackals. they band together.)
23:29 decimation yeah but pit can be reused
23:29 mircea_popescu trinque yes, that's the word. and we know it is the fact of the matter from say the kidneys.
23:29 mircea_popescu decimation again, animals are not stupid. it will identify your trap even when fresh. let alone when it stinks of death.
23:29 mircea_popescu !up hondapiston
23:29 hondapiston Hello :D
23:29 mircea_popescu hi. who're you ?
23:30 * asciilifeform mutters 'meowmix'
23:30 hondapiston Michelle
23:30 decimation are you a socialist?
23:30 hondapiston No
23:30 decimation \me imagines another 1000 log-lines
23:30 mircea_popescu aite.
23:31 hondapiston Are you?
23:31 decimation nope
23:31 mircea_popescu decimation she wasn't a socialist, she was a northernsystemalist. stop arguing about your imaginary political systems that don't exist!
23:31 hondapiston Why not
23:31 decimation heh
23:32 hondapiston Good night
23:32 mircea_popescu ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
23:32 hondapiston What
23:32 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140388 < note that her 'Nordic system' is simply derpy marxism that was recycled through the us as 'progressivism' and then indoctrinated by harvard circa 1945
23:32 assbot Logged on 20-05-2015 14:32:14; mircea_popescu: instead of parading them naked through the streets with a "i was a fucktard and am now sorry" thing around their neck, they let them sit around for twenty years coming up with reasons as to how their idiocy "wasn't really all that bad".
23:33 hondapiston !s meowmix
23:33 assbot 42 results for 'meowmix' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=meowmix
23:33 mircea_popescu decimation nah, it's local brew.
23:33 hondapiston I am meowmix
23:33 decimation lol asciilifeform has it
23:33 asciilifeform have i ever failed at meowmix, l0l
23:33 hondapiston Quiet me
23:33 trinque is "meowmix" #b-a's "anon" ?
23:33 mircea_popescu basically, the east germans came up with a rationalization of their soviet time. "we really were right. excesses were made but..."
23:33 hondapiston Yay
23:33 mircea_popescu trinque just some guy, i dunno.
23:33 decimation hondapiston: no you tell me why you lurk
23:33 asciilifeform meowmix is, i think, a script.
23:33 mircea_popescu nowai.
23:34 hondapiston I use 4g on my nexus 6
23:34 asciilifeform meowmix: if you get in wot, i will tentatively rate you.
23:34 decimation it does reek of 'eliza'
23:34 hondapiston Nexus 6 is the best phone
23:34 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> meowmix is, i think, a script. << More likely meat that fails turing test
23:34 mircea_popescu meaf.
23:34 decimation meowmix: is that why you are using an ipv6 address?
23:34 mircea_popescu replacing the T for passing turing with the F for failing it.
23:34 hondapiston I guess
23:34 asciilifeform meowmix: if you can convincingly prove femality, a whole regiment will rate you, l0l
23:34 mircea_popescu ^ from experience
23:35 hondapiston Feminist's are stupid
23:35 decimation so are people who inappropriately use apostrophes
23:35 mircea_popescu i dunno man... they made me a sammich...
23:35 hondapiston I hate feminists but most of all i hate homosexuals
23:35 decimation meowmix, something draws you to this channel
23:35 mircea_popescu how about the crab people ?
23:36 trinque talk like crab! act like peo-ple!
23:36 hondapiston Fuck homosexuals
23:36 asciilifeform i would love to know what meowmix is, and who made it.
23:36 trinque *walk, shit
23:36 mircea_popescu doesn't that mean you LOVE them ?
23:36 asciilifeform meowmix: droid, state your purpose.
23:36 hondapiston Peace out i work at a guess statoon
23:36 hondapiston Gas
23:36 asciilifeform eh.
23:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform maybe it's vexual.
23:36 asciilifeform the antipodal vexual.
23:37 decimation at least vexual kinda makes sense sometimes
23:37 mircea_popescu mexual, vexual's evil twin
23:37 decimation and uses more than 10 syllables
23:37 mircea_popescu together, they form
23:37 felipelalli !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
23:37 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a723a3cfbf132739
23:37 mircea_popescu THE COLOR MAUVE
23:37 felipelalli !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
23:37 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/eca1220ff4d0be25
23:37 mircea_popescu felipelalli quotes not rly necessary.
23:38 BingoBoingo meowmix seems to consistently come from near danielpbarron's neck of the woods. Perhaps an ex?
23:38 felipelalli !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."
23:38 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/91d4164f91571469
23:39 trinque strange the guy has a compulsion to come here, but mostly emits word salad
23:39 mircea_popescu he prolly goes everywhere
23:39 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141047 << and all of them, WITHOUT EXCEPTION insist they have some "one twu way" idiotic system.
23:39 assbot Logged on 21-05-2015 02:22:08; decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140385 < free herring is nice, but plenty of other places have free herring/oil/usg favors
23:40 mircea_popescu from saudi arabia to lybia, israel, pick it.
23:40 asciilifeform trinque: i've entertained the thought that it is one of the ill-fated philippinos going off the reservation
23:40 mircea_popescu it is the nature of human stupidity to ascertain positive outcomes to personal merit and negative outcomes to environmental hostility.
23:40 decimation BingoBoingo: did you use a tool to find his ipv6 address assignment pool?
23:40 mircea_popescu it's always the same iirc.
23:41 BingoBoingo decimation: Nah, I just remember from when his phone carrier still had v4's to give him
23:41 BingoBoingo Or her
23:41 trinque asciilifeform: I'm not aware of it
23:41 BingoBoingo or Xor
23:41 decimation mircea_popescu: yeah that's a good point
23:41 decimation even the us thinks that its political system is responsible for having vast natural resources/destroying the world twice
23:41 mircea_popescu yep
23:41 asciilifeform trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-02-2015#1003223 << them.
23:41 assbot Logged on 02-02-2015 23:04:03; mircea_popescu: it was highlighted by intel about two weeks ago, and we're generally tracing it to philippines "top quality" content farms working for a number of (mostly ct and wash based) pr firms.
23:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform doesn't seem all that likely but who knows.
23:42 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141052 <<< ahahaha
23:42 assbot Logged on 21-05-2015 02:24:43; jurov: decimation: they are already in germany building nordic system
23:43 trinque asciilifeform: huh, astroturfing meatfarms?
23:43 trinque what a shitty life
23:43 BingoBoingo trinque: They are a thing, welcome to glabalization
23:43 asciilifeform trinque: aha. and now imagine if one of the slaves were to get bored and start playing with his console in unsanctioned ways
23:44 asciilifeform drooling all over keyboard
23:44 BingoBoingo All the gab you want at bargain prices
23:44 felipelalli AdrianoOliveira: welcome! First Brazilian I see here.
23:44 mircea_popescu trinque better than callcenter / myfreecams / wow gold baby.
23:44 mircea_popescu felipelalli did you manage to rate him in the end ?
23:44 asciilifeform https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9EKh_lIEAE1O8u.jpg << obligatory
23:45 trinque seen that, hilarious
23:45 asciilifeform trinque: yeah it's a #b-a classic
23:45 * mircea_popescu personally knows ex-slavegirl trainee. failed out of slavedom bootcamp, is now working callcenter. what most meat does irl, the world over.
23:46 BingoBoingo !up felipelalli
23:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: generally speaking - what does 'failing' mean there ?
23:46 asciilifeform similar to washing out of army ?
23:46 mircea_popescu exactly what you'd expect. not actually being good enough. ayup
23:46 felipelalli mircea_popescu: I didn't know. Thanks for the pro tip.
23:47 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141073 << eh, random people ended up with some dust dunno what to do with it. try amassing 1k, or even 10 btc and see what you have to pay.
23:47 assbot Logged on 21-05-2015 02:36:17; AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the Brazilian market I can confirm that... today's volume at local exchanges was about 280 BTC and I got a user offering me 140 out of exchanges
23:51 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141102 << excelent example, if more wer eneeded, that soft consensus aka fecal matter.
23:51 assbot Logged on 21-05-2015 02:48:29; decimation: I remember the haters all complaining that bitcoin was 'not stable'
23:52 mircea_popescu the idea that "the people" should have a voice is not unlike the notion that cows should design their own barns.
23:52 * mircea_popescu imagines a cow designed barn... walls of hay, roof of salt rock...
23:53 asciilifeform if cows could speak, they might very well tell us that they believe themselves to have invented barns
23:53 asciilifeform and designed the particular example they happen to inhabit.
23:53 mircea_popescu and fucked napoleon's mother.
23:53 asciilifeform ..., etc. aha.
23:54 decimation ^ and designed the nordic system
23:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140900 @ 0.00027579 = 38.8588 BTC [+] {2}
23:54 trinque watching the phuctor story unfold as a bystander, it really opens ones eyes to the... call it participatory nature of a totalitarian system
23:54 mircea_popescu aha. quite exactly.
23:55 mircea_popescu the gestapo, is not pointed out enough, consisted of a small office with a few bureaucrats overwhelmed by citizen reports irl,
23:55 asciilifeform anyone recall vaclav havel's grocer ?
23:55 trinque makes total sense.
23:55 mircea_popescu and a HUGE hallucination in those citizens minds.
23:55 asciilifeform precisely same thing
23:55 asciilifeform http://vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML << see section III
23:56 trinque ty
23:57 asciilifeform ' It offers human beings the illusion of an identity, of dignity, and of morality while making it easier for them to part with them.'
23:57 mircea_popescu havel definitely good read on this topic.
23:57 mircea_popescu intelligent, educated fellow with direct access to the thing and a deep interest in documenting it. one rarely gets better.
23:57 * asciilifeform recommends whole thing
23:58 mircea_popescu and imo better than mr s, on account of no particular literary ambitions
23:58 trinque "He does it because these things must be done if one is to get along in life." << this must be entirely automatic
23:58 trinque the obedience mechanism, whatever that is
23:58 asciilifeform trinque: see also orwell's 'duckspeak'
23:59 mircea_popescu !s itself at the center
23:59 assbot 0 results for 'itself at the center' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=itself+at+the+center
23:59 mircea_popescu eh no wai.
23:59 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-01-2015#998181
23:59 assbot Logged on 30-01-2015 05:50:13; mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,
23:59 mircea_popescu there we go
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