Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-04-08 | 2022-04-10 → ↓
01:40 asciilifeform phf, signpost : asciilifeform was shopping for reverse osmosis rig for new pad, if either of you have a favourite vendor in usa, plox to rec
01:40 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-08#1094459 << asciilifeform admits surprise : thought reich had that one buttoned up
01:40 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-08 17:16:04 mats: https://archive.ph/qXlkX
01:41 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-08#1094469 << there's also such a thing as a wot (with the obv. caveat)
01:41 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-08 17:53:51 verisimilitude: I'm to understand, in a society with constant surveillance, the only way for attacks to succeed are ``lone wolf'' attacks.
01:41 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-31 22:02:28 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: there's an ukr joak, 'one ukr -- is a fine fella. two ukrs -- best buds. three ukrs -- is a partizan brigade with a traitor'
01:43 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-08#1094464 << they burn designated burn zone.
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01:43 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-08 17:43:07 verisimilitude: Niggers burning down cities and destroying small businesses are just protesting, however.
01:43 dulapbot Logged on 2019-12-02 02:26:44 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: disappointing, but unsurprising. in usa also riots ~always like that -- the designated 'kindling' (i.e. slums) burn, and (almost...) never the skyscrapers.
01:53 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-08#1094457 << wb jonsykkel ! post debuglog of the 34min?
01:53 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-08 15:52:56 jonsykkel: 242000 -> 723000, 45 days, one 34min stall at height=508335
~ 31 minutes ~
02:24 jonsykkel ty ty
02:24 jonsykkel lemme find log
02:32 jonsykkel http://zzz.st/up/gwTgk4p3/stall
~ 2 hours 27 minutes ~
05:00 signpost phf: asciilifeform: I'm just using "zero water" filters with their large glass dispenser.
05:00 signpost no fancy rig on the house, though have considered it because austin water is very hard.
05:00 * signpost afk, sleep
~ 2 hours 59 minutes ~
07:59 mats http://ewg.org/tapwater/ rip
08:00 mats ive been delaying getting an ro system but i guess its time
08:07 mats after doing some research i think it'll be this one, on account of the wqa gold seal certification https://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-hi-detail.htm
~ 2 hours 53 minutes ~
11:00 mangol http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094479 << blm was activated in 2016 and 2020 to discredit trump (who was popular with blacks who wanted jobs). not clear what specific occasion blm was started for in 2014
11:00 bitbot Logged on 2022-04-09 01:43:05 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-08#1094464 << they burn designated burn zone.
11:00 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-08 17:43:07 verisimilitude: Niggers burning down cities and destroying small businesses are just protesting, however.
11:00 dulapbot Logged on 2019-12-02 02:26:44 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: disappointing, but unsurprising. in usa also riots ~always like that -- the designated 'kindling' (i.e. slums) burn, and (almost...) never the skyscrapers.
11:01 mangol "occupy wall street" was skyscraper riot, they tried to enter buildings but driven away by private security
11:03 mangol rioting in the street in front of skyscrapers = probably something the elite would reserve for photo op in truly desperate circumstances only
11:13 mangol as for the rioters that are actually violent, weren't they mostly paid goons in blm and similar 'protests'?
11:14 mangol antifa and the like
~ 3 hours 38 minutes ~
14:53 phf mangol: you haven't spent enough time in marginal communities. there's no need to pay for violence, you just need stand down orders for the police
14:57 phf it was too far for me to drive during blm to observe the happenings closely, but when i did make it into the fray, i saw all the usual types from my rambunctious youth: crusties, bike messengers, black flag punks, variety of dodgy ass dudes with prior convictions
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15:00 phf violent guys on the left are often the kind of guys who'll bum you for cigarettes at events, "hey maaaan", and if you're become friends with them you'll get dragged into a weird chaos of "man my car broke down, but my girlfriend is strung out and can't pick me up, but i need to go pick some shit up from mikey, you know mikey" etc.
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15:02 phf they are hainas, they beat their girls, and they get beat up by criminals they associate with, but they are particularly effective in a group
15:08 phf like look at the antagonists in the kenosha incident, imho highly representative, a petty thief, a pedophile, and a guy with a history of domestic abuse. and that's a random sample, right?
15:16 mangol a random sample of antifa looks about the same
15:17 phf for people like that violence is opportunistic and spontaneous, give them space to operate, and they will very rapidly create a post-apocalyptic landscape for you, "fiery but mostly peaceful". i mean that's what marginal festivals and parties devolve into on its own.
~ 24 minutes ~
15:42 phf tod seelie has been documenting marginal cultures through the early 2000s, and i'm partial to his stuff, because i've been to all the same parties, photos of people i knew in his e.g. "bright nights". you had a few downshift interlopers like myself, but you mostly had people with fucked up backgrounds, white trash, parents are alcoholics, cousins are junkies. some, basically at a core decent invidividuals, have transcendent their
15:42 phf background. but there was also a lot of dudes (and girls), who were fucked in the head, and a lot of people who succumbed to hard drugs.
15:46 * asciilifeform not meat-handshaked w/ subj, but at one pt when 'occupy'(tm)(r) was geographically convenient to walk into, habitually went 'there', but consisted mostly of the 'passive sad' sort
15:46 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 10:59:20 phf: violent guys on the left are often the kind of guys who'll bum you for cigarettes at events, "hey maaaan", and if you're become friends with them you'll get dragged into a weird chaos of "man my car broke down, but my girlfriend is strung out and can't pick me up, but i need to go pick some shit up from mikey, you know mikey" etc.
15:48 phf so a lot of that chaotic, destructive energy got wrangled, people grew up, or else od-ed (there was a whole period when friends of friends were od-ing left and right, around the time that we were all turning 27), but the ones that were particularly fucked in the head stayed in the scene, or by then had priors, and were forever marred
15:49 phf /that's/ antifa :)
15:50 asciilifeform the 'destructive energy', seems, most of the time directed against own kind, when usg not using'em as arsonist uses gasoline
15:50 phf that's correct, destructive energy was always self-contained, and often cathartic.
15:51 asciilifeform in '16, 'erryone' was expecting trump to set up a 'brownshirts' outta these. but nodice.
15:52 asciilifeform (instead, as i gather, his curators -- set up)
15:52 phf well, marginal culture was always leftist culture, was easier to radicalize them for the "progressive" causes.
15:53 asciilifeform not clear that the ameri-lumpens all that susceptible to ideology. beyond 'heard that over-there can crack some windows / skulls w/out police getting in the way, let's go'
15:56 phf asciilifeform: that's not the case at all. you have the standard red guard hierarchy
15:56 asciilifeform phf: elaborate?
15:56 phf back when i was in the scene you had a variety of idealogues, now reduced almost entirely to marxism
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15:58 asciilifeform near as asciilifeform was able to personally observe, the 'marxism' topped out at 'break some glass and maybe grab a tv from shop'
15:59 phf asciilifeform: well, that's not the case on the ground. you've had the idealogues since forever, people with some spotty understanding of marxism, which is also their identity. i've had marx debates (mostly since i grew up in the system, i actually know what it says in the books, lol) at bike messenger parties in 2010
16:01 phf these are also the people who set the agenda of a particular group, and are rsponsible for the political radicalization. now since this is also lumpeproletariat the ideology is simply used as a cover for criminal behavior, but the ideology is definitely there
16:03 phf actually scratch that, there's also a lot of peaceful activism, soup kitchens, various forms of (often misguided) helping the minorities initiatives, community gardens, free yoga lessons. i mean everyone knows the tropes, but those are ideologically driven, primarily marxist
16:05 phf the idealogues were also the conduit for such rapid transition to woke ideology, and it was a joint effort between a variety of activists, like feminists.
16:06 * asciilifeform not penetrated 'into' subj anywhere near to phf's level, mostly recalls crowds of students, 'moar world, less bank' posters, 'phree palestine!', pamplets pushing ^ 'yogas', the rare broken window, folx scattering when police siren, etc
16:09 asciilifeform during reign of bush ii, regular thing in washingtonistan. then asciilifeform one time tried to set one up himself -- theme: 'diebold stole '04 election'. glued spamola in various places, gathered maybe three dozen, the feminists/yogis didn't come, but, in tlp's words, 'felt like a trader^H^H^H^Hactivist'. interviewed by some fishwrap in front of whitehouse (/dev/null), eventually erryone went home and snoar.
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16:10 asciilifeform educational in re 'activism'.
16:11 phf yeah see students were mostly not part of this, or at the very least if they were students, it wasn't their identity. students are lame :D
16:12 asciilifeform was hands-on demo that phf was right
16:13 asciilifeform (not that the 1e6-biped 'protests' summed to anyffin interesting imho)
16:13 phf there's a documentary about salem (the witchhouse band) which is kind glimpse into the culture i'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOeAg4YVygQ
16:16 phf it's the last generation of the american kids that got to enjoy the wealth surplus: there was not much of it, so they spent whatever they could on drugs and self-destructive partying
~ 45 minutes ~
17:01 mangol ^ the above matches my experience
17:02 mangol almost none of them care about "marxism" as such. they care about common-sense "rights" for the "underrepresented". that's a good thing.
17:03 mangol the bad thing is society will go down the toilet to the extent that the "underrepresented" actually get their "rights".
17:03 mangol as for the concrete "activism", it's the same kind of thing you had around mp, or any other DIY revolution without elite backing. that's not about leftism.
17:04 mangol normal people just can't do any "activism". if you do a lot of work, you have to set up businesses and other reich-moderated structured activities.
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17:05 mangol if you don't do that, what you get is parties, yard sales, things like that. the most anxious subset of the people will riot a little bit, but most of the people who gather around subcultures are there for the parties and yard sales, not subversion
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17:07 mangol antifa = the dregs of the most anxious subset, with elite backing
17:08 mangol i'd imagine antifa at a place like kenosha is mostly random disaffected, with a few sponsored agitators (possibly unidentified) to rile them up
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17:10 mangol a recent twist is that some of the "underrepresented" are so well off, no matter how hard you try you just can't come up with any common-sense grievances by which they'd be "oppressed". that's where they take up maxrist-style conceptual weaseling and you get gender this-and-that
17:12 mangol iirc one of the most recent branches was a bunch of wealthy kids deciding they are wolves, and that was some kind of "gender" or something. and they felt alienated because other people aren't gender-wolves
17:12 phf mangol: just so that we're clear, i don't support this "very fine people on both sides" angle or the idea that violence came from paid people. which is the reason why i said all i said.
17:16 mangol not only from paid people. george floyd was almost certainly not paid
17:17 mangol where did you read in a "fine people on both sides" angle?
17:18 phf http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094541 http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094543
17:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:04:37 mangol: if you don't do that, what you get is parties, yard sales, things like that. the most anxious subset of the people will riot a little bit, but most of the people who gather around subcultures are there for the parties and yard sales, not subversion
17:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:07:41 mangol: i'd imagine antifa at a place like kenosha is mostly random disaffected, with a few sponsored agitators (possibly unidentified) to rile them up
17:20 phf the implication is that there's outside malevolent forces that goaded a bunch of basically nice people into doing bad things, unless i'm misreading, and you're prepared to deny that point
17:21 mangol the kind of people who show up at blm riots are the most disturbed end of these subcultures
17:23 phf i suppose i'll grant that it depends on whether or not you count the totaliy of people as subculture, or the core. if you're have "kill all cops" subculture, but at the long tail bulk of people are not really prepared to kill cops, they just in it for the clout, then you can maybe take such a gratious read. i'm claiming though thet the subcultures were inherently disturbed, come from disturbed roots, and represented themselves
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17:23 phf accurately on a public scene.
17:24 mangol the core, or origin, probably disturbed. i mean, what kind of person starts a "crust punk" movement from nothing?
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17:25 phf i also believe that the least disturbed parts of the subcultures joined /for/ the disturbing parts e.g. che guevara t-shirts on college dweebs imply...
17:25 * asciilifeform finds interesting that the 'marx' types in usa, so effectively ridden like sleds by the folx they're nominally in opposition to, that nearly all counter-marxist types see'em as entirely merged, and bloviate re 'usg is communist regime' a la mp
17:28 mangol phf: joined for the disturbed parts in full knowledge of the consequences, or lived such sheltered lives that they think it's like a TV show
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17:29 mangol i suspect the latter. or alternatively, "madness of crowds", ~normal people go into a kind of fervor
17:30 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094540 << theoretically possible to non-reich-moderated biz, w/out the 'activism' wankage. but it won't happen unless actual hands materialize to make it.
17:30 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:03:25 mangol: normal people just can't do any "activism". if you do a lot of work, you have to set up businesses and other reich-moderated structured activities.
17:30 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
17:34 mangol there's a conventional name for non-reich-moderated biz: crime :)
17:34 phf mangol: gustave le bon wrote the definitive work on the subject that you're alluding to, psychologie des foules, psychology of the crowd, but his work should not be used for apologism. same is the point whether or not "thought it was real, or like video game".
17:34 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094556 << the 'movements', near as can tell, sum to 'brownian' motion. observe e.g. 'occupy'(tm) wankage flicked off like a lamp when the organizers achieved their actual aim, of being given minor academi-mandarinates
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17:34 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:23:45 mangol: the core, or origin, probably disturbed. i mean, what kind of person starts a "crust punk" movement from nothing?
17:35 mangol phf: you're unlikely to find any antifa sympathizers on a channel like this; no apologism implied
17:35 phf mangol: nothing less than a total condemnation! :)
17:36 mangol i'm more mellow than that
17:36 mangol because i don't see these people as possessing full agency
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17:36 asciilifeform mangol: on the contrary, e.g. asciilifeform 100% sympathizes w/ 'kill the elite'. but e.g. 'antifa' seems to function 100% as 'brownshirts for dnc' and afaik at no point genuinely endangered a yacht rider.
17:37 mangol in my experience, most people (even normal ones) live life by bouncing around at random. recursively, the ideas in their head bounce around at random.
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17:37 phf modern psychological perspective /is/ apologist in that. classical le bon position is that from moral perspective you've had to come out to begin with. now there's extra layer: came out because was deluted. can construct such chain all the way into all actions.
17:39 asciilifeform ( i.e. the 'bifurcation' described by phf. there are heads walking around, w/ no hands; and hands walking around, with nuffin in the way of a head, 100% steerable into harmless (to yacht set) largely self-destructive 'activity')
17:39 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-05 22:15:43 phf: vex: man that's the same angle that asciilifeform is taking, and that's not what i'm ranting about. i'm lamenting about the bifurcation of human experience. either an egghead who knows life from books, or man of action who doesn't know his scylla from charybdis. i simply want other men in my life who both read the classics, and can go hunting from horseback :>
17:40 asciilifeform e.g.
17:40 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-08 17:16:04 mats: https://archive.ph/qXlkX
17:40 mangol phf: in most cases of deeply antisocial behavior, the original damage is genetic. e.g. an image search for "antifa mugshot" says it all
17:41 mangol where not genetic, their childhood was deeply scarred. single parents with substance and violence issues, etc.
17:41 * asciilifeform suspects lombroso wasn't entirely wrong
17:41 mangol i don't see the point in condemning such people; nature condemns them, and many of them spend their whole lives condemning themselves
17:42 mangol and if you condemn them, you're none the closer to removing the blm riots from society, because the latter are useful to elites
17:43 adlai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-07#1094002 << my favorite still is the one where a tourist couple asks a taxi driver for directions to a restaurant where they can get a salad; after a fragmented conversation in taxi-driver-english, driver radios station, asks (in hebrew), "How do you say Mekdonaldz in English?"
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17:43 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 19:56:22 verisimilitude: Paging adlai, how are the advertisements in the promised land?
17:44 phf mangol: condemnation is a social responsibility, the purpose of which is to contain the degeneracy (in the classical sense of the word). i don't mean in a biblical sense, but in the most basic "let's not burn things" "theft destroys communities" etc. kind of sense
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17:44 adlai bilingual advertisements are quite common, because of the large majority who understand basic spoken english
17:46 adlai surprisingly, lots of recent advertisements are actually invitations to apply for jobs at tech companies; e.g., bus station billboard, "Seeking head of saying what everybody else already agrees with", or a bunch of python-valid punctuation marks, and then the name of a tech company.
17:46 mangol phf: please reflect on asciilifeform's frequent allusions to "designated burn zone / picket zone", and the last psychiatrist's "if you're reading it, it's for you"
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17:47 phf mangol: go spin on a dick
17:47 mangol you're working for the benefit of the establishment if you pay attention to all this crime and depravity
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17:47 asciilifeform lol
17:48 mangol *pay attention in an emotionally involved way
17:48 mangol because your emotional involvement will turn into some action that goes to /dev/null
17:49 mangol and is subtracted from improving your personal life
17:49 adlai ehh, mangol , I think you're exaggerating the rate at which mild rubbernecking turns into action. people can have an emotional response to something for a few minutes, then go on with their lives.
17:49 asciilifeform mangol: imho obv. to anyone whose 'third eye' is even half-open, that reich cultivates 'lumpenization', promotes degeneracy, and actively curates 'movements' which sum to 'break coupla windows, steal coupla tvs, then go home and od on dope', neutralizing the 'active' and terrorizing the 'passive'
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17:50 adlai does having an emotional response - laughter, feeling of superiority, etc - to watching a cat video, instead of smoking a cigarette, benefit the establishment tentacle that now knows you laugh at cat videos?
17:52 * adlai has rubbernecked at plenty of protests; does not consider having his cell phone counted in attendance statistics, and possibly his face blurry at the edge of a frame of some camera sweeping across bystanders, to benefit anyone
17:52 asciilifeform adlai: broad subject -- e.g. the folx successfully herded into 'social media'(tm) with lolcats, yes, serve reich 'by watching lolcats'.
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17:53 asciilifeform (even ignoring the 'opium for the masses' aspect, where yer 'anesthetized')
17:54 adlai arguably, slight benefit to my feeling of superiority towards folks who consume protest movements from their armchair in front of the TV; and detriment to folks working at crowd control, who have another peripheral biped to classify as harmless.
17:54 asciilifeform 'rent is up 2.5x but hheey look theeere's a new lolcat'
17:54 shinohai But I sold the new lolcat as an NFT and paid rent for a year.
17:55 asciilifeform 'click on lolcat to learn how cruel putler decimated lolcats in mariupol' etc
17:55 mangol of course reich promotes degeneracy and neutralizes the active. my point is, reich is very effective at suppressing active people who decide to stop being neutra
17:55 mangol activism = you'll "unlock an achievement" in some social scoreboard, but your action won't materially affect society
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17:56 adlai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094600 << this is what I meant by "benefit the establishment tentacle"; I guess it boils down to whether your smoke break involves rolling a cigarette with leaves grown in your garden, or buying a pack from the coke machine.
17:56 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:51:24 asciilifeform: adlai: broad subject -- e.g. the folx successfully herded into 'social media'(tm) with lolcats, yes, serve reich 'by watching lolcats'.
17:58 asciilifeform mangol: for so long as 'active' also means 'headless', there's nuffin to suppress
17:58 dulapbot (trilema) 2014-06-11 asciilifeform: incidentally, old russian folk phrase for a fool, 'без царя в голове' - literally, 'without a king in his head' is useful & applicable
17:58 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-02 21:02:07 asciilifeform: still waiting for 'uprising' that isn't run by the usual mix of provocateurs and semiliterate roomtemp-iq waco fodders
17:58 asciilifeform i.e. the scheme is powered by the 'bifurcation'.
17:58 adlai I recall once reading some unexplained optimism that "rave culture will save humanity", and supposing that it serves a similar blowing off of excess energy in a similar way to an ultimately ineffective, yet undoudbtedly noisy, public protest.
17:59 adlai one is similar to the Orwellian "Ten Minutes' Hate", the other, 'love', and neither accomplish much beyond invoking their namesake
18:00 mangol asciilifeform: adlai: this was exactly what i meant
18:00 mangol the sooner people realize all those silly protests feed the machine they are protesting, the sooner they wake up
18:01 asciilifeform mangol: how do you picture result of 'wake up' ?
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18:01 asciilifeform ( i.e. what is there to 'wake up' to ? )
18:01 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-24 16:24:14 asciilifeform: well say a fella decides 'nyt is fulla shit, wish i could serve putin'. what's his next step.
18:01 mangol asciilifeform: nothing that will hurt reich in sufficient numbers to stop it
18:01 mangol but will at least help the individuals who wake up, since they'll stop fretting about things they can't change
18:02 mangol i've met several burnt out idealists
18:02 phf mangol: who are you, exactly?
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18:02 phf !!help
18:02 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
18:02 asciilifeform !!rated mangol
18:02 deedbot asciilifeform rated mangol 1 at 2022/03/16 08:51:45 << noob
18:02 asciilifeform finn iirc
18:02 phf !!ratings mangol
18:02 deedbot http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=8Q8z
18:03 asciilifeform !!seen cgra
18:03 deedbot 2022/02/28 17:26:43 <cgra> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-27#1081208 << close enough to ponder whether finland's next, or what was going on again
18:03 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-27 19:22:54 verisimilitude: Joking aside, is anyone here even near Russia?
18:03 asciilifeform ^ possibly we're down to 1 finn
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18:03 * adlai laughs at joke about "there are actually three of them!!!!"
18:04 phf man, i like finns, i went to korpiklaani concert in finland (was not in helsinki, so don't remember where), it was a lot of fun
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18:04 adlai somehow, that is one of my favorite jokes; first encountered before military service, only became funnier after seeing firsthand how average grunt is instructed
18:05 * asciilifeform also fond of finns, esp. the kind willing to get hands dirty
18:05 phf but reddit comes for all men!
18:07 * asciilifeform survived reddit, a la smallpox, 'clean' for >decade
18:07 asciilifeform unfortunately there aint atm any other 'vaccine' for reddit.
18:08 adlai if you're referring to the site, rather than the phenomenon - 'vaccine' is probably the wrong metaphor.
18:08 asciilifeform adlai: i expect he's referring to the broader concept
18:08 adlai unless I'm mistaken, the phenomenon is equivalent to 'eternal september'.
18:09 * adlai is reminded of opening paragraphs of Heinlein novel, where male protagonist laments at other male protagonist, "we should never have taught them to talk"
18:10 asciilifeform the phenomenon, adlai , is where folx go 'where did the last decade of my life go', a la vodka but where the cirrhosis is in yer brain, not liver, and costs 0, and feels enuff like 'activity' to satisfy all kinds of folx w/out risking any actual constructive activity taking place.
18:11 adlai anyway, my point is that a better metaphor might be the beekeeper's suit.
18:11 asciilifeform adlai for instance is ever compulsively at work to recreate reddit in #a
18:11 adlai by talking, and then telling myself I did something?
18:11 asciilifeform adlai: when was last time you wrote a working proggy ? ( or mixed batch of cement, for fuxxsake? or even bought horse yet? )
18:11 phf adlai: i'm refering to a kind of markov chain process that's halmark of internet conversation, "all things to all men", the point is to keep the conversation flowing and yourself involved, but not necessarily anything else. "oh you talking about horses? well i think that purebreads are superior to rocky mountains, because on wikipedia it says their hind legs have more twitch muscle. i've read a research paper on horses and let me tell
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18:11 phf you..."
18:12 asciilifeform ^
18:12 adlai long enough to leave now, because you are correct.
18:13 asciilifeform wainot try put down the bottle , rather than 'ugh time to leave'
18:13 asciilifeform even vex occasionally does, and says sumthing coherent
18:13 * adlai will return, probably within a week
18:14 phf oh no, i've been discovered! adlai, a familiar markov chain is always more welcome than strange one :D
18:14 asciilifeform lol
18:25 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094584 I think I've seen this advertisement, or one like it.
18:25 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:42:05 adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-07#1094002 << my favorite still is the one where a tourist couple asks a taxi driver for directions to a restaurant where they can get a salad; after a fragmented conversation in taxi-driver-english, driver radios station, asks (in hebrew), "How do you say Mekdonaldz in English?"
18:26 verisimilitude I agree, asciilifeform; adlai should pay me to write a program.
18:34 phf http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094637 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWzaUkMvfZE
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18:34 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 14:03:45 phf: man, i like finns, i went to korpiklaani concert in finland (was not in helsinki, so don't remember where), it was a lot of fun
18:39 verisimilitude That was a quick week.
18:40 adlai to reduce confusion: I don't disconnect from IRC, I /part from the channel, to reduce conversational complexity by advertising that, although I might read logs occasionally, the chance of me monitoring the conversation synchronously is negligible.
18:41 * adlai will still read /query conversations, if anyone specifically needs his opinion; this is rare, although remains possible.
~ 49 minutes ~
19:31 mangol http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094635 << yes
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19:31 bitbot Logged on 2022-04-09 18:03:23 asciilifeform: ^ possibly we're down to 1 finn
19:32 mangol has the word "reddit" generalized to stand for usenet-style free-for-all wank?
19:33 mangol in any medium
19:35 verisimilitude No.
19:35 verisimilitude Just consider the average Reddit user.
19:36 verisimilitude ``Keanu Reeves, Big Chungus, wholesome, I fucking love science, I was raped by my wife's boyfriend''
19:38 mangol is it really that bad?
19:39 verisimilitude Yes; the last fragment is a quote.
19:39 mangol the horror
19:42 mangol so when people say you sound like reddit, they mean "please tone down the miscellany and get to the point (charitably assuming you have one)"?
19:43 verisimilitude Here.
19:43 verisimilitude They mean ``stop being an insufferable faggot'', mangol.
19:45 mangol i can't parse this stuff
19:45 verisimilitude Which?
19:47 mangol ~zero idea of the context around any of this stuff. i feel like a boomer
19:48 verisimilitude Tell me thine age, mangol.
19:51 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-16#1084595
19:51 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-16 11:13:20 mangol: PeterL: i identify as an x-millennial
19:51 verisimilitude Okay.
19:52 mangol i think i've come across "I fucking love science" ages ago. the rest sound like some zoomer memes
19:53 mangol the whole manner of conversation is foreign to me
19:55 verisimilitude Well be we in Reddit?
~ 1 hours 54 minutes ~
21:50 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094502 << this is 100% correct. and what jobs they have, when they have them, were shuttered during covid lockdowns.
21:50 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 10:56:27 phf: it was too far for me to drive during blm to observe the happenings closely, but when i did make it into the fray, i saw all the usual types from my rambunctious youth: crusties, bike messengers, black flag punks, variety of dodgy ass dudes with prior convictions
21:50 signpost ain't hard to figure out what comes next.
21:51 signpost pdx caught it worse than most because it's a haven for the lifestyle.
21:53 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094522 << yep, years back the guy bringing the drugs might've considered marxism statist, and this was a problem for him.
21:53 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 11:55:48 phf: back when i was in the scene you had a variety of idealogues, now reduced almost entirely to marxism
21:54 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094529 << pretty cool experiment, even if failed.
21:54 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 12:08:42 asciilifeform: during reign of bush ii, regular thing in washingtonistan. then asciilifeform one time tried to set one up himself -- theme: 'diebold stole '04 election'. glued spamola in various places, gathered maybe three dozen, the feminists/yogis didn't come, but, in tlp's words, 'felt like a trader^H^H^H^Hactivist'. interviewed by some fishwrap in front of whitehouse (/dev/null), eventually erryone went home and sno
21:54 crtdaydreams signpost: kind reminder about wot key change :)
21:54 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-30 19:44:37 crtdaydreams: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=-kOa
21:55 crtdaydreams no hurry, won't be able to continue pest setup for another ~wk~ or so anyways
21:56 crtdaydreams just unsure about paste expiry
21:59 signpost np, I said I'd do it and forgot again.
21:59 signpost it's done now
21:59 signpost website will update before long.
21:59 signpost !!key crtdaydreams
21:59 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/E17E4208DABCC09AD9CFC02F5A8D21C01AD12CAA.asc
21:59 crtdaydreams thankies, appreciate it :)
21:59 signpost yw
22:00 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-07#1093934 << fishing trip to torres wen?
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22:00 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 19:18:59 vex: I've had what I assume is a similar why was I not informed? experience. I'd recently commissioned myself as master and commander of a modest sailing ship, and found myself in a state of perfect joy. I think I was almost able to utter those very words.
22:01 crtdaydreams might be a bit choppy still
22:02 crtdaydreams catamaran or proper vessel?
22:05 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094554 << acab was in portland black bloc culture the entire time, yes, and increasing.
22:05 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:22:36 phf: i suppose i'll grant that it depends on whether or not you count the totaliy of people as subculture, or the core. if you're have "kill all cops" subculture, but at the long tail bulk of people are not really prepared to kill cops, they just in it for the clout, then you can maybe take such a gratious read. i'm claiming though thet the subcultures were inherently disturbed, come from disturbed roots, and represented
22:07 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094559 << this is wrong, they come from wretched lives.
22:07 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:27:06 mangol: phf: joined for the disturbed parts in full knowledge of the consequences, or lived such sheltered lives that they think it's like a TV show
22:08 signpost child abuse, drugs, poverty, malnourishment, utter dregs.
22:08 * signpost was a tourist at the periphery of some of these because it's where the psychedelics I wanted could be had.
22:08 crtdaydreams http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094573 << would like to point out that it's actually the opposite for at-least internet-types. rather I find that the `shouting into /dev/null' types are more iterative in a thought process. i.e. needs a sticker to tell em their not past their used-by
22:08 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:35:59 mangol: in my experience, most people (even normal ones) live life by bouncing around at random. recursively, the ideas in their head bounce around at random.
22:10 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094571 << I wager RU peasant was considered a creature with zero agency, and whether this is true, doesn't seem to have stopped them from eventually devouring the rotted carcass atop.
22:10 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:35:18 mangol: because i don't see these people as possessing full agency
22:10 crtdaydreams have been writing on this note a criticism of Kazinsky's work
22:12 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094586 << time to condemn these with a baton.
22:12 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:43:21 phf: mangol: condemnation is a social responsibility, the purpose of which is to contain the degeneracy (in the classical sense of the word). i don't mean in a biblical sense, but in the most basic "let's not burn things" "theft destroys communities" etc. kind of sense
22:12 signpost one can baw about the conditions which produced such dregs; nevertheless they're there, and they do not mend.
22:15 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094589 << megalol
22:15 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:45:38 mangol: phf: please reflect on asciilifeform's frequent allusions to "designated burn zone / picket zone", and the last psychiatrist's "if you're reading it, it's for you"
22:15 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094591 << yes, one should keep his eyes forward and hope he doesn't also get knifed while walking through the tenderloin.
22:15 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:46:28 mangol: you're working for the benefit of the establishment if you pay attention to all this crime and depravity
22:16 signpost the villainy doesn't disappear when you close your eyes.
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22:22 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094607 << ever heard "it's a recession when your neighbor loses his job, and a depression when you lose yours"?
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22:22 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 13:54:52 mangol: activism = you'll "unlock an achievement" in some social scoreboard, but your action won't materially affect society
22:22 signpost consider the equivalent in the category of social stability.
22:22 signpost the idea that riots are mostly symbolic comes from a life with no experience of hunger/poverty.
↖ ↖
22:24 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094624 << near as I can tell, bright scheme guy who comes from a country where he's not allowed to say certain things.
22:24 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 14:01:23 phf: mangol: who are you, exactly?
22:26 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094652 << "dear god I'm not alone, am I?" soothed by the rectangle reacting to you. if superficially, good, wont delve into the fear.
22:26 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 14:10:50 phf: adlai: i'm refering to a kind of markov chain process that's halmark of internet conversation, "all things to all men", the point is to keep the conversation flowing and yourself involved, but not necessarily anything else. "oh you talking about horses? well i think that purebreads are superior to rocky mountains, because on wikipedia it says their hind legs have more twitch muscle. i've read a research paper on hor
22:31 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094734 << could add, 'collapse -- when you both lost'
22:31 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 18:21:06 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094607 << ever heard "it's a recession when your neighbor loses his job, and a depression when you lose yours"?
22:32 asciilifeform (apropos phunphakt, and which gets unsurprisingly 0 anglo press -- in chunks of ukristan under ru reconquista, all mortgages cancelled)
22:35 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094737 << fwiw in ameri-riots, to date, looters dragging home tv's, rather than food
22:35 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 18:21:49 signpost: the idea that riots are mostly symbolic comes from a life with no experience of hunger/poverty.
22:35 asciilifeform so easily 'symbolic' if yer outta range of the flying bricks
22:36 signpost none of these are single cause events, but was speaking about the black bloc folks phf discussed.
22:36 crtdaydreams add `oppression' to list, i.e. .hk
22:37 asciilifeform hk was (failed) 'colour revolution'
22:37 asciilifeform (why failed? presumably cn intel found & neutralized the traditionally present swedish snipers)
22:38 crtdaydreams hm
22:39 asciilifeform ameri-riots to date are anuther thing entirely (designated unpoliced 'zone', e.g. bmore)
22:39 asciilifeform 0 damage to e.g. the yacht yard
22:40 crtdaydreams CHAZ hehehhe
22:40 asciilifeform ( tho , if you've been to bmore, it's a 20min walk from 'red zone' where burn )
22:40 signpost asciilifeform: portland rioters did hit the close-by suburbs.
22:40 crtdaydreams s/rioters/looters/
22:41 * asciilifeform not been to portland, cannot comment in depth. can believe
22:42 crtdaydreams apparently in AU they've been using sonic weapons on the protesters outside parlaiment
22:42 signpost in either case, lead-poisoned, petro-fed blacks stealing TVs, or black bloc bros committing arson, policing void is indeed the cause.
22:42 * crtdaydreams was not there so cannot verify
22:43 * crtdaydreams must go
22:43 signpost sure, have these here too.
22:43 signpost *the immediate cause.
22:46 signpost asciilifeform: if they had any sense of history, portland blocbros would've run someone for mayor, used riots to keep normies out of the polls.
22:48 signpost that person goes in, shuts down the rest of the policing, allows local councils to form to select "community leaders"
22:48 signpost afaik nothing close was ever attempted.
22:49 * signpost hasn't the slightest political affinity to these, thinks they should be exterminated, just emphasizing the ineptness.
22:51 mangol http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094737 << the outcome of riots is mostly symbolic, unless you have a truly massive amount of people
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22:51 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 18:21:49 signpost: the idea that riots are mostly symbolic comes from a life with no experience of hunger/poverty.
22:51 mangol successful mobilization of masses tends to be more structured than "hey, let's go riot over there"
22:52 mangol really downtrodden rioters are sincere, yes. but that doesn't mean the outcome of the riot improves their lot
22:52 signpost symbolic must mean something you're not saying outright, like "having no lasting impact on society"
22:52 mangol yes - i said something to that effect upstack
22:53 signpost decomposers don't do much for the goals of trees either.
22:53 signpost or, they do, but in a broader sense.
22:53 mangol if i was an evil overlord, i'd love the fact that the masses' energy is spent on fruitless riots where they divide themselves into antagonistic camps
22:53 mangol lol
22:54 * signpost doesn't see this at the level of political expression.
22:55 signpost animal expression.
22:55 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094503 << urge-filled reaction machines
22:55 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 10:59:20 phf: violent guys on the left are often the kind of guys who'll bum you for cigarettes at events, "hey maaaan", and if you're become friends with them you'll get dragged into a weird chaos of "man my car broke down, but my girlfriend is strung out and can't pick me up, but i need to go pick some shit up from mikey, you know mikey" etc.
22:56 signpost as opposed to, say, bourgeois division into umpteen political factions.
22:57 signpost the base animal hunger (which does not necessarily mean empty belly, but full of what? head full of what? etc) shared by all drives the consolidation
22:57 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-09 11:55:48 phf: back when i was in the scene you had a variety of idealogues, now reduced almost entirely to marxism
23:01 mangol i agree with this portrait of an almost animal drive
23:01 mangol a certain type of person feels they've been dealt a bad hand in life, and will find any excuse to see it as somebody else's fault
23:02 verisimilitude What about when it truly be somebody else's fault?
23:02 signpost what's fault have to do with it?
23:02 signpost worthless creature's there, busted and worthless.
23:03 signpost words mean nothing.
23:04 mangol the fault justifies the violence against those who are at fault
23:05 mangol the more messed up the sufferer, the more messed up the justification
23:05 signpost the need for justness is at a higher level
23:05 signpost fuck it dude, burn, rape, kill.
23:05 * signpost bears teeth.
23:05 signpost *bares
23:06 signpost haven't even discussed the astonishing prevalence of mental illness yet.
23:07 mangol yes, and being on substances all day every day
23:07 signpost ever tried to reason with a severely mentally ill person?
23:07 verisimilitude We use the same channel, signpost.
23:07 * signpost chortles
23:07 signpost one can go around and around; they may be able to state back to you why not to carve into their arm.
23:07 signpost and then slice.
23:08 signpost because something beneath the words, which the words cannot reach.
23:08 signpost this is all of them, in their respective flavors of the brokenness.
23:09 mangol in all fairness, how much more coherent is the ivy league graduate's oppression narrative than the blm aggressor's?
23:09 mangol more articulate, but not necessarily more logical
23:11 signpost latter can't be ruled with words, which is perhaps the dividing line between whatever else and peasantry.
~ 22 minutes ~
23:34 mangol http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-04-09#1094733 << indeed it doesn't. but should be met with a controlled response. the main problem is that reich has made it extremely difficult to craft one.
23:34 bitbot Logged on 2022-04-09 22:16:19 signpost: the villainy doesn't disappear when you close your eyes.
23:35 mangol they love an unhinged response to their trolling since it gives them cause to print shock articles about right-wing extremists
23:36 mangol imho kenosha kyle acted constructively, as do the various people who gather evidence for lawsuits and school board meetings
23:37 mangol but even those are a long shot. the law is regularly subverted
~ 21 minutes ~
23:59 signpost what does controlled mean to you there?
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