#asciilifeform | 2021-09-03

!w poll

00:19

Polling 17 nodes...

00:19

185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!

00:19

84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!

00:19

185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!

00:19

71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.103s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759 (Operator: asciilifeform)

00:19

205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=698759

00:19

54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.171s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759

00:19

205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.142s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759

00:19

205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=698759 (Operator: whaack)

00:19

143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.174s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759

00:19

208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759

00:19

54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.314s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698756

00:19

213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.336s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759

00:19

205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.522s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759 (Operator: asciilifeform)

00:19

103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.659s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698759

00:20

176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)

00:20

192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)

00:20

205.134.172.6:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)

~ 4 hours 43 minutes ~

05:04

https://brutebrothers.com/ "Your Crypto Locksmiths"

05:04

"If you’ve lost access to your Bitcoin, Ethereum or any other cryptocurrency wallet, we can help you recover it."

05:06

https://www.btctimes.com/news/coindesk-interested-in-tether-reserves

05:07

btctimes investors: Blockstream guy, Charlie Lee (litecoin guy) and even fluffypony

05:08

Blockstream loves the Bitfinex money

05:09

I really didn't think Buttfinex would survive into 2021

05:10

but not only survive, but keeps printing billions in Tether

05:19

bitfinex prints money and so does tether

05:19

i hoped they would fail also but it was a pipe dream

05:21

running a service for newbs that's basically a thin wrapper over hashcat and vast.ai is a pretty good idea

05:33

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/cryptocurrency/410466-south-african-crypto-mogul-denied-bail-after-arrest-in-the-united-states.html

05:36

"But Spagni does not dispute the South African prosecutor’s statement that he had

05:36

been warned to appear in court on April 7, 2020, March 24, 2021, and on April 19, 2021, but did not appear. Nor does Spagni dispute that his counsel informed the court that he had notified Spagni

05:37

of the last two court dates, that he had been unable to reach Spagni, and that he had no instructions

05:37

as to Spagni’s whereabouts. Spagni also does not dispute that his counsel moved and was allowed to withdraw from representation on that basis at the April 19, 2021 hearing"

05:38

makes it seem like it might not have been fbi operation

05:42

"Spagni first emphasizes the particular risk of contracting COVID-19 in

05:42

a custodial setting which, he argues, is more likely to result in severe illness for him because of his chronic asthma and obesity"

05:43

ahaha "Spagni argues principally that “South African authorities have no means to prove that Spagni was the recipient or beneficiary of the allegedly fraudulent proceeds” because relevant bank records were lost in a 2009 fire."

05:44

maybe also arsonist? hilarious

05:44

"The South African prosecutor responds that it has electronic records indicating that Spagni was the account holder."

05:53

bizarre

~ 29 minutes ~

06:22

its notable that virtually all of the criticisms of tether's reserves i've ever read, including those from cryptocurrency publications, never mention that tether behaves like any other commercial bank

06:28

obviously lying about 1:1 is no good, they shouldn't be doing that, but its also ridiculous to suggest that a profit seeking enterprise should shy away from buying short dated chinese paper to earn returns and instead... buy treasuries

06:29

when there's billions of dollars chasing your product that enable you to easily run a fractional reserve

06:29

tens of billions of dollars

06:31

and clearly nobody with money who has been buying or holding tethers gives a shit about the fractional reserve now that the scheme has been litigated in the public view

~ 27 minutes ~

06:58

yeah but they then use the fractional reserve to manipulate the market

07:01

and I'd say it's very charitable to even call it "fractional reserve"

07:02

chinese paper? yeah that's definitely gonna end well

~ 7 hours 31 minutes ~

14:33

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-03#1056245 << this is why pyramids are infectious.

14:33

Logged on 2021-09-03 02:28:21 mats: obviously lying about 1:1 is no good, they shouldn't be doing that, but its also ridiculous to suggest that a profit seeking enterprise should shy away from buying short dated chinese paper to earn returns and instead... buy treasuries

14:35

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-03#1056232 << see earlier thread for background lulz

14:35

Logged on 2021-09-03 01:33:13 punkman: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/cryptocurrency/410466-south-african-crypto-mogul-denied-bail-after-arrest-in-the-united-states.html

14:35

Logged on 2021-08-02 22:08:57 asciilifeform: ok, fluffypony's extradition judgement (txt) is pure gold. rec'd read for erryone tuned in.

14:40

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-03#1056231 << ftr asciilifeform strongly suspects that it may be moar profitable to 'mine' privkeys (not, obv., via brute force, but guided by known and yet-to-be-found shit-rng lulz) than to mine conventionally

14:40

Logged on 2021-09-03 01:21:34 mats: running a service for newbs that's basically a thin wrapper over hashcat and vast.ai is a pretty good idea

14:42

$ticker btc usd

14:42

busybot

Current BTC price in USD: $50699.81

14:42

!w poll

14:42

Polling 17 nodes...

14:42

185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!

14:42

84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!

14:42

185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!

14:42

205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.022s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698852

14:42

205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.091s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=698852

14:42

205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698852 (Operator: asciilifeform)

14:42

54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.171s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698852

14:42

205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=698852 (Operator: whaack)

14:42

143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.294s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698852

14:42

54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.272s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698852

14:42

213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.389s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698852

14:42

103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.669s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698852

14:42

71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.864s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698852 (Operator: asciilifeform)

14:43

176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)

14:44

192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)

14:44

208.94.240.42:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)

14:44

205.134.172.6:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)

~ 2 hours 18 minutes ~

17:02

was there ever a definitive resolution of the 'recompile with -fPIC' error? i'm hitting it now when trying to build gnat

17:04

billymg: building which gnat, and with which other gnat ? and plox to paste full eggog.

17:04

billymg: also note that previous pastes of this in the logs were re uclibc (prolly not pertinent to your case)

17:07

asciilifeform: gnat-gpl-2016 and with gnat-gpl-2014 as the bootstrap

17:08

one sec, lemme get the build logs

17:12

billymg: iirc nobody's succeeded in using 'gnat-gpl' as bootstrapper, it's subtly broken in various ways

17:24

asciilifeform: here are the build logs

17:25

asciilifeform: if i have a working gnat on my other machine, how would i manually move that over to this one in order to bootstrap? i don't know the full list of binaries that would have to be moved over

17:26

billymg: this is tricky, see the old 'ave1' gnat, had script for packaging

17:26

Logged on 2021-09-02 15:07:19 asciilifeform: ( or if you must, grab the old kit )

17:27

asciilifeform: also, through experimentation, i was not able to build the vtools binaries on my gnat box and then run them successfully on my current box

17:27

which leads me to believe something in gnat is also a runtime dependency for those binaries

17:27

billymg: the only gnat on which i've tested 'vtools' is the 'ave1' gnat

17:28

my vtools work fine on my other box

17:28

it's just when i copy the compiled binaries over to this box via usb stick and attempt to use they don't work correctly

17:29

does that seem right?

17:30

billymg: didja set the paths ?

17:30

yeah, vpatch even kinda works

17:30

billymg: paste eggog plz

17:31

asciilifeform: one sec

17:31

i can press genesis patches, but any patch beyond the genesis fails with hash mismatch

17:33

asciilifeform: e.g.: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=VV-2

17:34

and i do have the standalone ksum that comes with vtools in path too (otherwise v.pl fails the commands check in the beginning)

17:35

billymg: make sure this is a current (i.e. keccakistic) v.pl

17:35

it is

17:35

odd!

17:35

so it should be working??

17:36

i.e. those binaries should work on a machine that doesn't have gnat?

17:37

billymg: ah hm interestingly my copy aint statically linked

17:37

( looking at 'vdiff' )

17:38

asciilifeform: are there some flags in the makefile i could tweak to force it to build with static linking?

17:41

billymg: see this old thrd

17:41

(trilema) 2019-02-02 asciilifeform: trinque: see ffa as example

17:46

asciilifeform: these use("-static") lines?

17:46

aha

17:47

alright, will give that a shot, thanks

17:48

asciilifeform: re the gnat build errors, i'm looking at this: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:AMD64/Fixing_-fPIC_Errors_Guide

17:48

specifically Case 3

17:49

i could try: "In this case, globally adding -fPIC to C[XX]FLAGS resolves the issue, although this practice is discouraged because the executable end up being PIC-enabled as well." -- and if it works, try to find/patch the individual files that need the flag by writing a patch for the ebuild

17:52

billymg: this may work, but afaik to date errybody solved by bootstrapping w/ bin of adacorpse gnat

17:52

Logged on 2021-09-03 13:12:32 asciilifeform: billymg: iirc nobody's succeeded in using 'gnat-gpl' as bootstrapper, it's subtly broken in various ways

17:54

*

asciilifeform ftr finds the 'v depends on gnat' thing to be an epic barf, courtesy of mp & diana ; really oughta be corrected

17:55

asciilifeform: i'm using that one though, i'm building through portage, so it's whatever they pull when the bootstrap flag is set, which from my distfiles appears to be gnat-gpl-2014

17:56

billymg: i get it, but noting that i've not succeeded in building adacorpse w/ 'gpl' variant at any point

17:56

ah

17:56

so gotta be gnat-gcc?

17:57

billymg: may be possible to do what you were trying to do , but asciilifeform does not know the pill

17:57

ave1 ( and later signpost ) iirc built adacorpse w/ bin. dist. of same, and then again with itself

18:00

billymg: you may want to wait for signpost to return, he's the one who most recently walked this labyrinth

~ 15 minutes ~

18:15

*

asciilifeform ftr sees this as the only possible final solution to bootstrappism

18:15

(trilema) 2019-02-04 asciilifeform: described, in the past, the general shape of the recipe for this -- you write e.g. small lisp in coupla kb of asm, and large 1 on that, and an adatron on the latter... etc

18:17

( and see also e.g. )

18:17

Logged on 2020-07-18 19:55:54 asciilifeform: trinque: since you mentioned script langs: considering, after ffa, to attempt a 'dethompsonizing' simple gc-less scheme in asm, in style of 'M' as a scripting lang. can't speak for erryone, but i've wanted a <32kB scripting lang that 'compiles with bare hands' for many yrs.

18:27

wb signpost

18:27

*

signpost received a rude, unrequested reboot of box

18:27

signpost: texas mains current lulz continue ?

18:28

hosted elsewhere, but who knows. I no longer make fun of "third world" countries.

18:28

a

18:28

can't keep the infrastructure up anywhere in the states

18:29

!q uptime

18:29

asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 79d 15h 26m

18:29

^ not perfect but imho pretty good

18:33

looks like yep, power outage at dc. they were in the path of the storm.

18:33

plus generator failure, egh.

18:33

asciilifeform: will definitely keep you in mind when I boot up another box. this one's been pretty good for a long time, no cycles to uproot it just yet.

18:34

at asciilifeform's, 2 separate banks of diesels, and sees that they actually test'em. since i subscribed there was exactly 1 power fail, an own-goal by ups tech

18:35

*

asciilifeform likes that he was able to physically go and see and prod people there, when >hr of fail

18:35

*seems that

18:39

i haven't tried to build trb since gnat intro, way too many people documenting hours of lost effort getting it to work

18:40

*

signpost built like two months ago, worked fine.

18:41

mats: if you have a box that you can just put asciilifeform's dulap on the trb build is easy

18:41

my struggle is getting gnat on this box

18:41

billymg: wanna try something out?

18:41

fixed my gnat-builder

18:41

signpost: sure, still stuck

18:42

k, gimme a few to upload

18:42

btw, asciilifeform: do these gpr files look right for vtools: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=PYvK

18:42

the sections i added to add the -static flags

18:42

they built, but still don't work on my non-gnat box

18:42

pentacle also builds vtools atm, btw

18:43

static

18:43

signpost: what is pentacle again?

18:44

half-built linux distro, which so far can fart out a static build of gnat and vtools

18:44

oh neat

18:44

can also build itself, of course.

18:44

just didn't drag over the cuntoo installer script to fart it onto a block device yet

18:45

i haven't given up yet on this box, but may be my last attempt at trying to contort upstream into something usable

18:45

this thing will deploy into its own chroot inside the dir you unpack, so it won't disturb the host system.

18:47

these? http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-03-18#1033394

18:47

Logged on 2021-03-18 21:55:05 trinque: dpb: https://trinque.org/pentacle.tar https://trinque.org/pentacle.tar.asc

18:48

grabbing it now

18:50

no, those are old

18:53

ah, right

18:53

Logged on 2021-09-03 14:42:03 signpost: k, gimme a few to upload

19:00

billymg: problematic.site/pentacle.tar problematic.site/pentacle.tar.asc

19:00

curious to hear if it works for you.

19:01

one remaining issue is that the stupid debootstrap step requires a package index from a debian repo even if it pulls the debs from the cache I provided

19:01

this is obvious in retrospect, derp.

19:01

so I'm looking at how to include that package index in the bootstrap wad

19:01

pls read and understand bootstrap.sh before running

19:02

you'll end up with a "target" dir within which a tiny linux userland, including gnat.

19:02

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-03#1056356 << loox correct; what happens when run ldd on the resulting bin ?

19:02

Logged on 2021-09-03 14:42:35 billymg: btw, asciilifeform: do these gpr files look right for vtools: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=PYvK

19:03

to get a vtools in there, enter the `target` chroot after your build, and... `cd /src; ./layer install vtools`

19:03

( oughta look like this )

19:03

Logged on 2020-07-01 12:28:28 asciilifeform: not a dynamic executable

19:03

(you will notice there's also an `install` script, earlier version of `layer`)

19:04

I'm not there yet, but the vision is to have squashfs userlands grunted out by build recipies, and those pair with tasks (not at all implemented)

19:04

if you've used docker, should be familiar without the five-hundred-tons of insanity

19:05

signpost: the 500tonnes thing seems inescapable, tho, with that approach

19:05

how

19:05

unless i'm missing sumthing

19:05

well if erry proggy carries an entire linux userland (and src of same) along

19:05

nah, layered atop, hence "layer"

19:05

familiar with unionfs?

19:06

aha

19:06

idea is you should be able to mount tools into your userland and unmount at will. I don't need an ICBM launcher in my userland unless I'm using one

19:06

not unique, this. beos did it in... 90s?

19:06

*

asciilifeform can't escape the feeling that this approach 'plugs the wrong end of the funnel'

19:06

*

signpost has managed thousands of servers at once, not doing it without such.

19:07

but specific critiques are welcome.

19:08

imho a key source of insanity in *nix is the writable and ever-fiddled-with root fs, rather than composing the contents with known items, produced by bin-reproducible build.

19:08

throwing sets of binaries around does work, and is what pretty much erryone already does. e.g. asciilifeform's bitwise images for dulap & rk; the gnat kit; etc.

19:09

but it doesn't offer a path outta the thompson trap.

19:09

I want to deterministically produce the disk image that gives me the tools that perform a specific task, and sign.

19:09

and to be able to call upon these images declaratively.

19:09

it's rather analogous to if no one has discovered how to light a fire, but instead, like 1e5y ago, erry fire had to be lit from previous

19:10

*

signpost holds out hand, gun assembles itself in it.

19:10

I'm not using these things like hand-tools my whole life.

19:10

anyway, what I just linked is a couple hundred lines of bash, easy to read.

19:10

signpost: asciilifeform (and suspects signpost et al) already does more or less this, simply in place of disk images there are separate machines in a rack

19:12

it's imho incredibly clunky tho -- really, erry proggy has to live in own universe, no possible way to make'em cohabit safely and reliably one OS (by orig. definition of same) ?

19:12

and when you want proggy-A and proggy-B to interact (feed output of one into another) ?

19:12

... in realtime ?

19:12

yeah, oughta start up in a very small initramfs which can fire up tasks in any number of chroots. the chroots for complexity management, not security.

19:13

and when you want them to talk, give them a shared mounted fs within which fifos

19:13

shared fs dun give you pipes tho

19:13

sounds like same task if piping

19:13

they go together

19:14

let's take concrete case -- two proggies, say, are trb and valgrind.

19:14

asciilifeform: ldd ksum, ldd vpatch -> "not a dynamic executable", ldd vdiff -> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=hXdc

19:14

how do i use the latter on the former w/out allowing'em to inhabit one memoryspace ?

19:14

asciilifeform: a man's workbench has no need for the tool I'm describing

19:14

and this thing can happily shit you down one fs with everything.

19:14

billymg: vdiff built dynamically

19:15

*

signpost wants fungible nodes of task-runners *out there*

19:15

signpost: seems like oughta be generalizable into vtron

19:15

( 'press' into 1 fs... )

19:16

there is an as yet unformalized relationship between a particular press and a particular set of built output, yes

19:16

signpost: re: 'fungible nodes of runners', recall this asciilifeform experiment? was 1 of the aims there

19:16

(incidentally I name the squashfsen after their hash of concatenated src and build script)

19:17

this so I can demand that the compute substrate run me an arbitrary command in the context of $HASH

19:17

asciilifeform: unavoidable? or you think it's a bug in my gpr file?

19:18

asciilifeform: yep, I do recall M

19:18

billymg: not immediately apparent why. this is why i asked ave1 to patch gnat so MAY NOT produce dynamic bins at all

19:19

asciilifeform: gotcha, ok

19:19

*

asciilifeform notices that his copy of vtools built with previous '16 gnat, evidently

19:19

anyway, it's an experiment, not a declaration of cosmic truth. I will have to get it deployed onto some machines in the coming years and see whether it introduces more problems than it solves.

19:19

billymg: to date i've recced ffa readers to grab the 'ave1' gnat bins, optionally selfbuild, and use that

19:19

signpost: grabbed your files, going to try it out in a bit

19:19

but I've done Linux server management at scale, and it's fucking terrible.

19:19

signpost: i can picture

19:20

both bashops and using the state-of-art

19:20

(scare quotes around state-of-art)

19:23

signpost: the 'final' solution asciilifeform is partial to, is (unsurprisingly) a universal vtree + minimal bootstrap compiler. from this, press whatever one needs on given time/place.

19:23

this is naturally not hidden in asciilifeform's sleeve, and not available for 'manage 9000+ servers today' sadly.

19:23

but imho remains the actual solution.

19:23

yup totally get it.

19:24

*

signpost making incremental moves towards slightly more usable boards-with-nails-in-'em

19:24

ftr asciilifeform manages dulaps etc with barbaric bitwise disk images, hand-pumped.

19:24

as thimbronion, pywad probably not the final item, but hell, I'm shooting udp packets directly to him. it's a start.

19:25

aha

19:35

signpost: i grabbed your latest snapshot & verified sig ; what external components do i need ?

19:35

Logged on 2021-09-03 15:00:29 signpost: billymg: problematic.site/pentacle.tar problematic.site/pentacle.tar.asc

~ 15 minutes ~

19:50

debootstrap should be it

19:51

bootstrap.sh is pretty short, quick read.

19:51

(before long it would be nice to have bootstrap-deb.sh, bootstrap-dulap.sh, etc)

19:51

just haven't gotten around to it.

19:53

when the whole thing produces entirely identical output between runs, I'll just sign a rootfs and leave the bootstrap scripts for historical interest (investigation of thompsonization, etc)

~ 30 minutes ~

20:23

signpost: -deb implies -- needs to run on a debian ? ( which one ? )

20:35

nah, just need the tool `debootstrap` present

20:35