Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-07-29 | 2021-07-31 → ↓
03:42 raw_avocado whaack: noice
~ 45 minutes ~
04:28 punkman https://pthree.org/2017/12/22/the-entropy-of-a-digital-camera-ccd-cmos-sensor/ "when putting the generated binary files through the Dieharder tests, it comes out pretty bad. I get 20 "PASSED", 13 "WEAK", and 81 "FAILED" results."
04:35 punkman just googled the vault12 app, and of course it's a wallet
04:38 punkman their blog post about the their rng https://medium.com/vault12/how-to-get-true-randomness-from-your-apple-device-with-particle-physics-and-thermal-entropy-a9d47ca80c9b
~ 5 hours 49 minutes ~
10:28 punkman "TxProbe: Discovering Bitcoin’s Network Topology
10:28 punkman Using Orphan Transactions" https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.00942.pdf
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~ 1 hours 53 minutes ~
12:21 adlai where's the angry old "icanhazpdf|ocr.slut" spammer when you need him!?
12:22 adlai ... which reminds me, I was gonna properly phrase some questions about OCR, for this place, since iirc asciilifeform [and maybe others?] have experience scanning books
12:24 * adlai wonders how bad the quality of printed material has to get before the publishing industry thanks him personally for writing an 'unpub' tool
12:25 adlai unlike bitcoin mining (i.e. a tool for censorship), 'unpub' is not a tool for ogilvisation; rather, it'd hope to someday be packaged as 'pdf2tex', with no delusions whatsoever of ever being 'pdf2latex'
12:25 adlai the question that led to this dangling thread is quite boring: "have you ever OCRed sheet music?"
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12:29 adlai as for the old entropy question: working almost entirely off my readings of the past conversations on this, I'm surprised ~any~ peripheral built as an input device, in this case optical, is considered a good entropy source
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12:31 adlai perhaps a better metric for shootouts is (kb/s)/(J/s), a sorta 'miles per gallon' for noise generation
12:32 adlai this metric would probably cause the camera approach to fail miserably, given how much extra computation would get spent making the frames coherent, and then debiasing... useless heat
12:34 * adlai defaults to "musst nicht sprechen" re:1812.00942; after all, the only thing he understands worse than bitcoin, is topology
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~ 1 hours 51 minutes ~
14:26 punkman used tesseract-ocr many years ago, wasn't getting great results. they do have neural-something in newer version though.
~ 2 hours 23 minutes ~
16:50 asciilifeform ocr does't work, adlai et al.
16:50 asciilifeform ('99.999%' != 'works' when it comes to potentially gnarly maffs typo)
16:51 asciilifeform it 'works' well enuff for fiction on ru warez sites, but this only because 'over 9000' readers and they send in corrections.
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16:51 asciilifeform fughet about a 'pdf2tex'.
16:51 asciilifeform ai-complete(tm)(r)(c).
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16:52 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-30#1049382 << 'a remarkable bear, but not a remarkable dancer'
16:52 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-30 08:25:03 adlai: as for the old entropy question: working almost entirely off my readings of the past conversations on this, I'm surprised ~any~ peripheral built as an input device, in this case optical, is considered a good entropy source
16:53 * asciilifeform does not, ftr, rec the use of such camera ~optically~, but as a (poor) particle counter.
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16:53 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-29 15:23:59 asciilifeform: but i've yet to see someone who is using camera as trng do this. (btw if you must do so, copper foil over the objective.)
16:53 asciilifeform ~if you must~.
16:54 asciilifeform repeating, for the thick.
16:54 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-28 23:13:45 asciilifeform: whaack: imho it's a little like asking 'what household object makes the best hammer?' -- buy a fucking hammer.
17:02 shinohai And here I've been using a microscope all this time.
~ 15 minutes ~
17:18 whaack !b 6
17:18 whaack good morning
17:20 asciilifeform wb whaack
17:30 whaack asciilifeform: is there a way to attack a bias'd rng without knowing what the bias is?
17:33 asciilifeform whaack: certainly. you find out what it is! lol
17:36 * whaack is pondering
~ 24 minutes ~
18:00 asciilifeform whaack: note that bias in the usual sense aint the only possible rng failure. there's also, e.g., sequential correlation.
18:01 asciilifeform whaack: not to mention 'debianization' where keyspace is 2^smallint instead of bigint, etc
18:15 whaack asciilifeform: ah, i may have been grouping the terms bias and sequential correlation together. If the only 'bias' is that bit 1 appears more frequently, then since all rng input can be transposed to a bitstream, attacking an rng with this type of bias could be done by prioritizing the search of all N bit streams with arrays starting with all 1s (most individually likely outcome) , then all 1s
18:15 whaack with one 0, etc.
18:23 asciilifeform whaack: in practice, bias in rng comes usually in discrete ('erry 5th bit is a 1') rather than continuous ('weighted coin') form
18:23 asciilifeform depending on what the victim is doing with his broken rng, different approach (e.g. if rsa or ecdsa -- solve lattice)
18:33 scoopbot New post: Alcuin
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~ 26 minutes ~
18:59 cgra asciilifeform: now that we're on topic, i've been for a while wanting to ask a q. at the bottom of nosuchlabs.com front page, you say "We recommend at least 24 hours of entropy distillation (solely via XOR-in-place !) if generating mission-critical, long-term cryptographic keys."
18:59 cgra is this is just because 'there's no 100%'? ie. humans make mistakes and only *mostly* notice
18:59 punkman whaack: one of the papers I linked recently, found bias in btc tx nonce, and recovered private key due to that bias.
19:03 asciilifeform cgra: per 'xor lemma', distillation via xor cannot subtract entropy under any circumstances (aside from feedback!) -- hence if you have the time, it doesn't hurt.
19:05 punkman asciilifeform: what does "feedback" mean?
19:11 asciilifeform punkman: arse-mouth connection. i.e. if the source of what you xor has nonzero info re what you're xoring with.
19:17 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-30#1049394 << I've seen this in papers. One of them arrived at "put thumb over camera".
19:17 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-30 12:49:31 asciilifeform: does not, ftr, rec the use of such camera ~optically~, but as a (poor) particle counter.
19:17 asciilifeform lol why thumb?!
19:18 punkman always have thumb
19:18 asciilifeform oblig
19:23 punkman actually, I think their scheme was thumb over camera and flash led, to have ~uniform "scene" with photons coming in
19:23 asciilifeform punkman: sounds like a good way to make accidental pulse oximeter, lol
19:23 asciilifeform instead of rng.
19:23 punkman heh
19:25 punkman asciilifeform: so with copper you get photons from photoelectric effect?
19:27 asciilifeform punkman: afaik most of what you get is from thermal electrons, rather than energetic photons making their way through the foil.
19:28 punkman asciilifeform: that's what I meant yeah
19:28 asciilifeform notbad likbez re subj if anyone givesashit
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~
20:48 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-30#1049376 << largely for noobs, will point out that trb tolerates neither tx nor block 'orphans'. they are intrinsically a denial of service vector whereby randos can eat arbitrary memory.
20:48 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-30 06:24:01 punkman: Using Orphan Transactions" https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.00942.pdf
20:49 * asciilifeform considers the removal of that garbage to be one of his very few -- perhaps the only -- nontrivial contributions to trb
20:50 asciilifeform !w poll
20:50 watchglass Polling 17 nodes...
20:50 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
20:50 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
20:50 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=693427
20:50 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.042s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450
20:50 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=693444
20:50 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.111s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450
20:50 watchglass 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.093s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 (Operator: asciilifeform)
20:50 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=693450 (Operator: whaack)
20:50 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.160s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450
20:50 watchglass 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.322s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450
20:50 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.234s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450
20:50 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.389s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450
20:50 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.755s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=693450 (Operator: asciilifeform)
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20:50 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
20:51 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)
20:51 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
20:52 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~
22:05 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-30#1049412 << imho scoopbot really oughta say the www name also
22:05 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-30 14:29:09 scoopbot: New post: Alcuin
22:06 asciilifeform y'know, like feedbot did
22:06 PeterL you mean name of website?
22:08 PeterL I can probably add that
22:12 asciilifeform aha
22:13 signpost yeah, when reading from the logs it's not so clear
22:14 PeterL like "new post on Thimbron:" then the link as it is above, or just the link and title without the bracket notation?
22:16 asciilifeform the former
22:17 PeterL sure
22:17 asciilifeform PeterL: ty
22:18 shinohai thimbronion: Can has plaintext of alcuin code? I still am unable to get properly formatted code trying to copy from WP page.
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22:20 * whaack seconds shinohai's request
22:21 asciilifeform vpatch plz.
22:21 * asciilifeform observes that thimbronion made a py demo of perhaps 20% of asciilifeform's (yet unpublished!) spec
22:21 asciilifeform which is notbad
22:22 asciilifeform ( there are some nontrivial differences but essential idea is just about same )
22:22 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-28 21:00:58 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-28#1049144 << ftr the indeterminate-width fields of irc (and similar protocols) don't play well with udp. ( in asciilifeform's thing -- fixed-length fields. for absolutely everything, defined as it were hardware )
22:30 PeterL asciilifeform: are you writing your thing in Ada?
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22:31 PeterL asciilifeform: do you have preference on whitespace around items in the bracket notation?
22:33 PeterL how does this look for a format? "%s: [ %s ][ %s ]" % (blog_title, item['link'], item['title'])
22:47 shinohai $ticker btc usd
22:47 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $41220.38
22:48 PeterL !s uptime
22:48 scoopbot PeterL: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m
22:51 PeterL It should be more clear now
22:52 thimbronion shinohai, whaack: does this work for you? http://share.alethepedia.com/alcuin/genesis.vdiff
22:53 thimbronion asciilifeform: will attempt to implement encryption this weekend. I can tighten up field lengths when I have more info.
22:54 shinohai tyvm thimbronion looks proper.
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