| 00:54 |
feedbot |
http://verisimilitudes.net/2020-11-05 << A Syndication of Verisimilitudes -- Mine Experience Interviewing with a Defense Contractor |
| |
~ 9 hours 56 minutes ~ |
| 10:51 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
| 10:51 |
btcinfobot |
Current BTC price in USD: $15422.13 |
| 10:51 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
Polling 16 nodes... |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.091s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655701 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.054s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655701 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
108.56.183.188:8333 : (pool-108-56-183-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.077s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655701 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.150s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655701 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.124s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=655557 (Operator: whaack) |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.179s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655701 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.221s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391673 (Operator: jurov) |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : (182518.pk.3pp.slovanet.sk) Alive: (0.313s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=431481 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : (tlapnet-38-54.cust.tlapnet.cz) Alive: (0.311s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655702 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : (185-163-46-29.mivocloud.com) Alive: (0.290s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=464953 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.572s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655701 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.122s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655702 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.352s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655702 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.382s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655702 |
| 10:51 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.913s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=655702 |
| 10:53 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 120 sec.) |
| |
~ 2 hours 23 minutes ~ |
| 13:16 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere jurov |
| 13:16 |
snsabot |
jurov last seen in #therealbitcoin on 2020-10-07 08:47:34: the www back up |
| 13:23 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: if you won't moderate #therealbitcoin (or give op to someone who will) i'ma drop it from the logger. it's turning into a cesspool of spamola . |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| 13:23 |
snsabot |
(therealbitcoin) 2020-11-06 kiwi_46shake: hey |
| 13:35 |
* |
asciilifeform wonders where jurov is.. was there a tbf broadcast for sept. 2020 ? |
| |
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~ |
| 14:37 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-06#1024382 <<< am happy to help curate chan if jurov sees fit, hafta agree with asciilifeform is cesspool (though likely same troll that pops in every few weeks). |
| 14:37 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-11-06 13:23:47 asciilifeform: jurov: if you won't moderate #therealbitcoin (or give op to someone who will) i'ma drop it from the logger. it's turning into a cesspool of spamola . |
| |
~ 2 hours 37 minutes ~ |
| 17:14 |
verisimilitude |
I just bothered reading those logs, and how so amusing: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-11-06#1001261 |
| 17:14 |
snsabot |
(therealbitcoin) 2020-11-06 kiwi_46shake: If I'm jurov I would contact the owners of the bitcoin.foundation and make a deal like Zuckerberg made a deal to buy facebook.com instead of stucking with the scam thefacebook.com |
| 17:15 |
verisimilitude |
That's a convincing argument, for an idiot. |
| 17:16 |
verisimilitude |
I'm reminded of how some have complained about my first article, at the top of the page, being a masturbation joke, and how I retort that I don't care, and anyone who would be filtered by that should be. |
| 17:16 |
verisimilitude |
This insistence that everything should be ``professional'' sickens me. |
| 17:17 |
verisimilitude |
I've another amusing example of this behaviour, but I'll only mention it here if someone actually wants to see it. |
| 17:18 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: there was the seemingly-endless series of morons who objected to the name of FUCKGOATS, for instance. |
| 17:18 |
asciilifeform |
it also worked great as 'filter'. |
| 17:19 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. against 'professionals'. |
| 17:27 |
shinohai |
I still think is same schmuck as http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-08-16#1000998 |
| 17:27 |
snsabot |
(therealbitcoin) 2020-08-16 kiwi_91: the bitcoin(.)foundation domain is registered initially on 19 May 2014 as a premium domain in the Landrush Period (jurov registered thebitcoin.foundation domain on 2014-12-03 which I understand. However recently the bitcoin(.)foundation domain was expired and sold to me and my partners for $100,000 USD. |
| |
~ 30 minutes ~ |
| 17:57 |
verisimilitude |
Mine issue with FUCKGOATS isn't the obscene name, but that I don't see anything clever behind it. When I use an obscene name, there's an amusing reason why, rather than being a more pure obscenity; is there any story behind the FUCKGOATS name I'm unaware of, asciilifeform? |
| 17:58 |
verisimilitude |
The Masturbation name came from homoiconic brainfuck, and homo fuck being masturbation amused me, but I've not read a similar story for FUCKGOATS. |
| |
~ 38 minutes ~ |
| 18:37 |
trinque |
verisimilitude: has to be taken in the context of the comically bad codenames nsa uses for its VERY SRS tools. |
| |
↖ |
| 18:38 |
trinque |
upstack, gotta encourage folks to think about what happens when freenode bites it. |
| 18:38 |
* |
trinque working on impl of various erasure codes etc, getting incrementally less-dumb on the subj |
| |
↖ |
| 18:40 |
trinque |
shinohai for example, if you spent your time instead standing up an ircd somewhere that demands otp-auth at connection, that'd be far better use of time imho |
| 18:40 |
trinque |
irc's also shit, but y'know, hovel, then house. |
| 18:41 |
verisimilitude |
With that context, it makes sense now, trinque; I appreciate the explanation. |
| 18:41 |
verisimilitude |
I dislike Freenode. |
| 18:42 |
trinque |
IMMACULATEORNITHOPTER |
| 18:42 |
verisimilitude |
That's real? |
| 18:42 |
trinque |
no, just riffing in the derpspace |
| 18:42 |
verisimilitude |
Alright. |
| 18:43 |
shinohai |
trinque: funny enough I stood up ircd just to test bots on - that is still 1000% more reliable than freenode though incomplete! |
| 18:43 |
shinohai |
(no otp-auth tho :/) |
| 18:43 |
verisimilitude |
I could setup an IRC server, but I'd rather not. Administrating most any manner of server is a bother, unless I wrote it myself. |
| 18:43 |
trinque |
shinohai: haz nameserv? |
| 18:43 |
trinque |
er nickserv |
| 18:44 |
shinohai |
trinque: No services of yet, is this thing https://git.theta.eu.org/eta/nea-2019 |
| 18:44 |
verisimilitude |
Now, I already use a different and small IRC network I could suggest, but I'm wary of doing so. |
| 18:44 |
shinohai |
(Just needed a reasonably light ircd to test things on, but never has gone down) |
| 18:45 |
* |
trinque looked briefly at ratbox, meh, looked like any other c ball-o-shit |
| |
↖ |
| 18:45 |
trinque |
interesting that this is lisp, might be able to graft deedbot right in |
| 18:46 |
trinque |
long chafed me that I was smearing ever-more shit into the thing because wrapped around fleanode |
| 18:46 |
trinque |
verisimilitude: no need to cross the streams; whole point is that several here own boxen |
| 18:46 |
trinque |
and I couldn't give a shit less if the public can find the door |
| 18:47 |
verisimilitude |
I suppose this is part of what I meant. Using Freenode, however poor, can be more convenient in the short term than instating a lone server. |
| 18:48 |
verisimilitude |
Of course, even were we using an ideal IRC setup, the protocol itself is still trash, just well-supported. |
| 18:48 |
trinque |
yup, exactly why I'm fiddling with erasure codes instead |
| 18:48 |
verisimilitude |
Tell me more. |
| 18:48 |
trinque |
I'm perfectly able to send you packets directly. wtf is a server? |
| 18:49 |
trinque |
https://www.math.nyu.edu/media/mathfin/publications/TR2002-833.pdf << worthwhile paper on one of 'em |
| 18:49 |
trinque |
all sorts of lovely applications hinted at within |
| 18:49 |
verisimilitude |
Oh, that manner of setup was meant. A server is still good, unless every node is going to catch up every other node on history. |
| 18:49 |
verisimilitude |
I'll read this, trinque. |
| 18:49 |
trinque |
in practice all of us had a full copy of the whole conversation through the entire "republic" |
| 18:50 |
trinque |
it scales to scales interesting to interesting people |
| 18:50 |
verisimilitude |
Considering the small size, the distributed solution is feasible, yes. |
| 18:51 |
verisimilitude |
I'm enthralled with the idea of designing a nice message format for forums, and then trying to make it work in all contexts. There's no reason IRC, email, and WWW forums should be so different; they should have the same abilities, as the only differences are superficial. |
| 18:51 |
trinque |
well, and lets say your L2 wants to know what was said in the forum. if you like them enough, you tell them. |
| 18:51 |
trinque |
if not, not. |
| 18:51 |
trinque |
I don't have to help that. |
| 18:51 |
verisimilitude |
Yes. |
| 18:52 |
trinque |
hierarchy also helps the scaling problem. |
| 18:53 |
trinque |
on a side note, the quotes around republic don't indicate some kind of cynical "I always knew it never was" but rather that it's the kind of thing that can only be said to have been in retrospect, imho. |
| 18:53 |
trinque |
if it was, it did, if that tracks. |
| 18:53 |
shinohai |
Never forget. |
| 18:55 |
verisimilitude |
I was never a member and, considering what happened, don't regret this. Would this be a ``new republic'', then? |
| 18:58 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-06#1024400 << aha. |
| 18:58 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-11-06 18:37:45 trinque: verisimilitude: has to be taken in the context of the comically bad codenames nsa uses for its VERY SRS tools. |
| 19:00 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-06#1024402 << there's 1 detail i did not see adequate exposition of anywhere to date : for the various encoding schemes, what degree of resistance to liquishit injection is there ? (i.e. is there a way to weasel out of signing ~each~ frag ?) |
| 19:00 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-11-06 18:38:57 trinque: working on impl of various erasure codes etc, getting incrementally less-dumb on the subj |
| 19:02 |
asciilifeform |
afaik, rsa is the bottleneck, in just about any conceivable sane routing scheme. |
| 19:02 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-10-07 14:58:18 asciilifeform: PeterL: i won't presume to speak for trinque , but in asciilifeform's conception, the obv. Right Thing would be an item which rides atop ipv4 in the same sense that the latter once rode atop telco grid; and w/ cryptographic routing (i.e. yer address is a pubkey) and ciphration (i.e. messages readable strictly by addressee) . all else -- implementation detail. |
| 19:02 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-11-06#1024419 << several times asciilifeform thought 'why not bake ada ircd' then each time realized that there aint a tcp lib (yet) |
| 19:02 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-11-06 18:45:14 trinque: looked briefly at ratbox, meh, looked like any other c ball-o-shit |
| 19:04 |
* |
asciilifeform prolly doomed to write one. unfortunately much moar gnarlier job than the udp lib. and sadly asciilifeform deeply mired in saecular matters atm, in efforts to get moarsaeculardough |
| 19:04 |
verisimilitude |
Perhaps this will be the year I get around to finishing the networking libraries I want, asciilifeform. |
| 19:05 |
verisimilitude |
Of course, any I write will probably be AGPLv3. |
| 19:05 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: i had nfi you were baking a network lib.. |
| 19:06 |
verisimilitude |
I've mentioned it lightly before. The primary issue is the agonizing pain required to design something sensible, without it being contaminated, while also ensuring it can be written without contamination damning it. |
| 19:06 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: still early in my thinking on this, but have an inkling that for many messages I do not care whether they're attributable or verifiable immediately. |
| 19:06 |
verisimilitude |
I had that UDP package specification and partial body laying around that I've shown here. |
| 19:07 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: if you read e.g. this, and this, and understood 100% how they worked, yer prolly qualified to write a useful network lib |
| 19:07 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: if you dun verify immediately, yer dosable |
| 19:07 |
verisimilitude |
I'll check, and correct the situation if I've not read them yet, asciilifeform. |
| 19:07 |
trinque |
yeah, but I don't intend to solve the whole problem at once |
| 19:08 |
verisimilitude |
I've also a Common Lisp experiment, but this is solely concerned with the client; a TCP server should always be a distinct interface. |
| 19:09 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: i'ma defo read (and comment) anyffin you come up with re subj. |
| 19:09 |
trinque |
still horking it down to be clear. |
| 19:10 |
verisimilitude |
I read about what was done at Xerox Parc, and how coherent the interfaces were, and it sickens me how painful it is to ask UNIX to actually do anything. |
| 19:11 |
verisimilitude |
I've never so much as drawn a true bitmap to the screen. |
| 19:11 |
trinque |
verisimilitude: upstack, way premature for any "new republic" |
| 19:11 |
verisimilitude |
Alright. |
| 19:12 |
trinque |
we're down at the "shit and food separation" tier of the tech stack |
| 19:12 |
verisimilitude |
The issue, I think, is where a human being wants a simple ``base level'' interface for something, a UNIX fanatic will wonder why that's needed, when a ten million line library nicely provides an interface over another ten million line library, over the anemic system interface that's also broken. |
| 19:13 |
verisimilitude |
At least my terminal library means I can avoid Ncurses. |
| 19:13 |
trinque |
preach. I just spent an obscene amount of time wringing the deps for gcc/gnat down to a reasonable list. |
| 19:14 |
trinque |
somehow I've not absconded to a ranch. |
| 19:18 |
feedbot |
http://mvdstandard.net/2020/11/smu-orders-24-hour-strike-of-doctors-working-in-private-clinics-on-november-11th/ << The Montevideo Standard -- SMU Orders 24 Hour Strike Of Doctors Working In Private Clinics On November 11th |
| 19:21 |
verisimilitude |
I read two standards documents to write my libraries, and the second standard is followed slightly incorrectly, but it's worthwhile. |
| 19:21 |
verisimilitude |
My machine code work may be found interesting in that context, trinque, since I want to program without text, and have a start at the lowest level of the machine. |
| 19:36 |
trinque |
what motivates the "without text?" |
| 19:41 |
verisimilitude |
It's an obscenity that I should program and write English with the same tool. |
| 19:41 |
trinque |
sure, that's your perspective. how do I come to the same? |
| 19:42 |
verisimilitude |
As I explain in the first article, using a tool with an intimate knowledge of the task eliminates failure modes compared to other approaches. |
| 19:42 |
trinque |
yeah, you're not starting at the most fundamental statement of your ideology here. |
| 19:43 |
trinque |
is perhaps one production that would make sense in-world "assembly is a bad interface to machine code?" |
| 19:43 |
verisimilitude |
I'll probably rewrite the article again soon. |
| 19:43 |
trinque |
nbd, I'm kicking the discourse engine here. |
| 19:43 |
verisimilitude |
It's hardly an interface at all. |
| 19:43 |
verisimilitude |
Expand NBD. |
| 19:43 |
trinque |
"no big deal" |
| 19:44 |
verisimilitude |
Now, the original idea, trinque, came about as I was fantasizing whilst bored. I imagined a machine code that wouldn't work well with an assembler, and so thought of how to make it easy to program. This morphed over years to become that tool. In thinking over historical nonsense, I realized treating text as characters is also nonsense. |
| 19:44 |
trinque |
so then, you're building a human interface to machine code that takes the "what's the best editor for machine code" approach rather than "how do I cake shit atop machine code such that I can glom together chunks of the latter"? |
| 19:45 |
verisimilitude |
So, not only do I not want to program with character streams, I also don't want to write English with them. It's bad in all ways. |
| 19:45 |
verisimilitude |
Yes, trinque; it's built in every way for hardcore machine code programming. |
| 19:45 |
trinque |
this makes sense. |
| 19:45 |
trinque |
see, now I can get to each of your opinions from that ideological claim. |
| 19:45 |
verisimilitude |
There's no macro interface, as an example, because that's what a compiler is for. |
| 19:46 |
verisimilitude |
The tool is intended for the manner of programming where a macro wouldn't work, because it's expected the programmer would look at the program and realize a slightly more efficient way to do whatever he wants at that particular point, enabled by the tool. |
| 19:46 |
trinque |
this actually makes sense within the republican notion of the computer being a mind amplifier, not a surrogate thinker |
| 19:47 |
trinque |
note, I'm not quite there, in that I don't buy the discounting of language as a tool, but I see where you're at. |
| 19:47 |
verisimilitude |
Neither this, nor my planned machine text system, will help a man who has no machine code to create, nor thoughts to write, yes. |
| 19:47 |
trinque |
(rather, I don't buy that what you're doing isn't language, hah) |
| 19:50 |
verisimilitude |
I wrote ``without text'', and by that I refer to what passes for machine text currently. |
| 19:50 |
verisimilitude |
All of my machine code programs, such as this one, have been written with the tool. I type relatively little, as it spares me this. |
| 19:50 |
verisimilitude |
Now I'm busy, but I'll be back soon to continue, trinque. |
| 19:51 |
trinque |
I'm actually going to knock off for a while and perhaps be back tomorrow. |