| 00:00 |
feedbot |
http://qntra.net/2020/01/hawaiii-man-kills-two-cops-houses-around-suspects-suspected-location-burn/ << Qntra -- Hawaiii Man Kills Two Cops Houses Around Suspect's Suspected Location Burn |
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~ 19 hours 10 minutes ~ |
| 19:10 |
asciilifeform |
wb mike_c |
| 19:11 |
mike_c |
hello ascii |
| 19:12 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: what've you been up to ? |
| 19:15 |
BingoBoingo |
welcome back mike_c |
| 19:17 |
mike_c |
hey bingo. alf, not up to much of interest except working my way through ffa chapters. |
| 19:18 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: oh neato. how far along are you ? |
| 19:19 |
BingoBoingo |
mike_c: Mircea Popescu will be paying once he returns to Costa Rica, sometime before the end of March by his estimate. |
| 19:20 |
BingoBoingo |
mike_c: Sign a payment address with a note declaring it as the desired distination for your payment, and I'll throw it in deedbot |
| 19:20 |
mike_c |
I saw Bingo, I'll get you a signed address. |
| 19:20 |
shinohai |
heya mike_c ... congrats on favourable ruling from the fuhrer, and gl with ffa ! |
| 19:21 |
mike_c |
alf - let me tell you, it's not a straight line. read ffa, go read more about Ada, read ffa, go learn more math. |
| 19:21 |
mike_c |
definitely some missing pieces of my trunk of knowledge in this area |
| 19:22 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: i'm curious re the specifics (item was intended as, among other things, ada tutorial; and the maffs req'd in principle dun exceed grade school level) |
| 19:24 |
mike_c |
http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2842 |
| 19:25 |
mike_c |
you learned this in grade school? |
| 19:25 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: barrett's method, obv. not; the elements of the proof, however, defo -- it's grade-school algebra ( solve system of inequalities ) |
| 19:26 |
mike_c |
the ada in the chapters is easy, but i'm interested in understanding ada better than the demands of the ffa walkthrough |
| 19:27 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: fair'nuff. certain elements of the lang that i did not use are rather complicated ( generics, streams, for instance ) |
| 19:28 |
asciilifeform |
i avoided'em deliberately ( they not only make for headache for reader, but complicate the job of tearing apart built binary to verify 'honesty' of compiler ) |
| 19:29 |
mike_c |
all these things are straightforward enough if you're "just programming" with them, but the thing that interests me really is figuring out whether I can believe that this whole thing is rock solid, constant-time executing, etc. |
| 19:31 |
mike_c |
shinohai: thanks. certainly a favorable step. |
| 19:32 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: there are examples given of how to test particular iron to verify constant-time operation, but a serious user i expect will also want to disasm the built binary ( to determine that bounds checks are not optimized out by a broken compiler, for instance ) |
| 19:32 |
asciilifeform |
neither is a substitute for actually understanding the proofs, however |
| 19:32 |
mike_c |
^ yes. |
| 19:35 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: one of the reasons i picked ada, is that it is a stolidly procedural lang, makes for relatively close correspondence b/w the algo and compiled proggy |
| 19:35 |
asciilifeform |
( considered and rejected, e.g., ml, because there -- not so much ) |
| 19:36 |
asciilifeform |
in principle ffa is quite easy to 'human compile' to asm for $arch of choice, as there is no use of 'clever' lang features |
| 19:47 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: my long-term aim is to publish exactly such ffa (i.e. hand-compiled, commented) for certain archs; and eventually to offer irons with same in rom. |
| 19:54 |
mike_c |
hm, the value of it in rom is.. i'm missing how that is better than signed binary |
| 19:55 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: to break away from x86/arm liquishit archs. |
| 19:55 |
mike_c |
oh, so you mean a PCB with it? |
| 19:55 |
asciilifeform |
correct |
| 19:55 |
mike_c |
got it |
| 19:55 |
mike_c |
that is cool |
| 19:56 |
mike_c |
how are you going to do that? FPGA? |
| 19:57 |
asciilifeform |
fpga. |
| 19:58 |
asciilifeform |
current unpublished draft of this, is targeted to a simplified 'mips' w/ no branch prediction or pipeline ( similar to the one in my mips emulator ) |
| 19:59 |
asciilifeform |
ideally would have simply a mipslike with ultrawide alu (which would obsolete good 80% of ffa by weight) but no existing fpga is large enuff to house this. |
| 19:59 |
asciilifeform |
( and in fact the only properly kosher, i.e. wholly reversed, fpga on the market , is afaik still 'ice40' , which is rather small . just barely holds a useful mipslike w/ 64bit regs. ) |
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| 20:02 |
mike_c |
a piece of hardware with reliable entropy, another with reliable math, that's a couple of strong building blocks! |
| 20:03 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: the 'holy grail' still would be an iron which can 4096bit rsa 'at line rate' (1G/s) , but this is as i understand impossible w/out baking silicon. |
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| 20:03 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: naturally would integrate 'reliable entropy' into any such. |
| 20:14 |
* |
asciilifeform isn't under any illusion that subj, per se, is mass-marketable. but it'd make certain other items ~thinkable~ (specifically, a proper crypto-routed net on top of ye olde ip) |
| 20:15 |
asciilifeform |
without fast, constant-time rsa -- any realtime mechanism will leak privkey. |
| 20:19 |
asciilifeform |
( to be pedantic, without the 'fast' -- ddosable. ) |
| 20:21 |
asciilifeform |
( bvt was able to give 3.5x speedup on x86 via asm massage but this still not anywhere close to 'realtime 1G/s nic' ) |
| 20:32 |
mike_c |
BingoBoingo: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=EX2d good? |
| 20:34 |
mike_c |
asciilifeform: have you written up how you envision crypto-routed net? I wonder if key rotation with FG as entropy source would be sufficient |
| 20:34 |
mike_c |
hard to say of course how long key has to be good for before priv-key is leaked |
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| 20:35 |
mike_c |
also, please dump a signed delivery address in here sometime for your BTC once I receive mine |
| 20:38 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: the addr on my www, signed |
| 20:39 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: re net -- imho premature, of yet, to write in detail. ( wrote a bit re how imho ~not~ to do it, in the epic flamefests w/ mp in '15-'16... ) |
| 20:40 |
BingoBoingo |
mike_c: The text looks good. |
| 20:42 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-01-20#1005367 << considering that enemy can be safely assumed to log 100% of packets, in any given situation -- there neither is nor cannot be such a thing as 'acceptable rate of privkey bit leakage' |
| 20:42 |
snsabot |
Logged on 2020-01-20 20:34:28 mike_c: hard to say of course how long key has to be good for before priv-key is leaked |
| 20:43 |
mike_c |
but if you rotate keys faster than they can crack them.. |
| 20:43 |
asciilifeform |
the latter is an unknown-unknown |
| 20:43 |
mike_c |
yeah |
| 20:47 |
asciilifeform |
classical branching-code impl.s of rsa (e.g. koch's) leak entire priv after coupla hundred privops (to anyone with sufficient 'ears' to listen correctly) |
| 20:48 |
mike_c |
well.. ok then! that's crazy |
| 20:48 |
asciilifeform |
and w/ current algos ( e.g. field sieve ) any 25% of the priv bits are ~as good as whole thing |
| 20:51 |
mike_c |
i feel like this is something you would know - how much does it cost to build an asic instead of fpga? |
| 20:52 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: very strongly varies depending on qty of units and the 'process' ('micrometrage') |
| 20:53 |
asciilifeform |
a 1980s-style item, in qty. 100, can cost as little as 100 $ / ea. but the rub is that very rarely this can be done in 1 shot, usually multiple prints req'd |
| 20:54 |
asciilifeform |
there is a 2017 thread where i contacted various small-run fab houses, unfortunately dun have the link handy (and the #s are likely to be out of date nao) |
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| 20:54 |
mike_c |
when you were developing fg? |
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~ 20 minutes ~ |
| 21:15 |
mike_c |
multi-project wafers seem to bring the cost down a lot. more reading to do.. |
| 21:27 |
asciilifeform |
mike_c: this was long after fg |
| 21:32 |
asciilifeform |
later threads w/ some detail re subj : 1 2 3 |
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| 21:32 |
snsabot |
(trilema) 2018-10-25 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865735 << i took a stab at this 2y ago, was very frustrating on acct of asic-baking not being a 'cash and carry' process like e.g. pcb-baking, but a heavily meat-powered affair where the derps want to 'get to know you' to figure out how much they can fleece |
| 21:32 |
snsabot |
(trilema) 2018-10-25 asciilifeform: there's a coupla 'small scale' fabs, but on close examination smell like ripoff, they ship with literally 0 guarantee of yield , and in laughable qty , and with laughable transistor count, and -- to add insult to injury -- die packaging not included, you gotta somehow find someone to do it, somewhere |
| 21:32 |
snsabot |
(trilema) 2018-10-25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the sad bit is that conventional asic process , as available today in cn , tw, etc, is also like this. you are forced to use 'standard cells' supplied by vendor. |
| 21:39 |
feedbot |
http://qntra.net/2020/01/usg-copper-isp-network-operator-frontier-moving-towards-bankruptcy/ << Qntra -- USG Copper ISP Network Operator Frontier Moving Towards Bankruptcy |
| 21:39 |
feedbot |
http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/draft-gbw-node-frontend-part-6/ << Fixpoint -- Draft gbw-node frontend, part 6 |