Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-09-26 | 2019-09-28 → ↓
01:48 billymg mircea_popescu: http://billymg.com/2019/09/additional-tests-for-mp-wp-now-according-to-spec/comment-page-1/#comment-50
~ 52 minutes ~
02:41 lobbes http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938254 << depends on the experience
02:41 ericbot Logged on 2019-09-26 11:50:37 mircea_popescu: think abougt it, isn't a priori post something you'd want ? :D
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
03:45 mircea_popescu aite, /me shall bbs on the travel console!
~ 47 minutes ~
04:32 spyked http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937811 <-- tyvm!
04:32 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-25 07:30:11 mircea_popescu: !!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=YaNz
04:37 spyked http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938376 <-- hm. I suppose feedbot could do something along the lines of "talk (via PM) only to people who are already +v in the channels where bot is listening"; either way, there's currently no strict enforcement in place, I'll add something if/when it becomes necessary
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04:37 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-26 13:19:48 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: once the new voice model comes in, is the L1 redefined accordingly too? iirc there are some priviledges such as "can use feedbot & deedbot only if in L1", right? spyked or trinque might correct me here.
04:45 spyked in other news, I'm in the process of standing up a mp-wp for thetarpit and migrating posts from the current platform there. will post a genesis for the current blog later today and then work out a plan for migration
04:49 spyked initial investigation shows that that indeed shouldn't be too painful, probably along the lines of wp_insert_post for each post. will still take some manual labour to verify that posts display well, but that's not burning, so I can do it as I go along with other work.
04:49 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-13 13:02:11 mircea_popescu: anyway : i'm willing to bet migration ~will~ be trivial ; and i am very curious to find out why not if indeed not
04:51 * spyked bbl, diving into saecular liquishit
~ 4 hours 56 minutes ~
09:47 feedbot http://ossasepia.com/2019/09/27/pretty-petty-particles-notes-on-graphics-in-eulora-vi/ << Ossa Sepia -- Pretty Petty Particles (Notes on Graphics in Eulora, VI)
~ 2 hours 2 minutes ~
11:50 feedbot http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a3-thetarpit-lbs-genesis.html << The Tar Pit -- The Tar Pit Lisp Blog Scaffolding genesis
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~ 1 hours 30 minutes ~
13:20 feedbot http://ossasepia.com/2019/09/27/ossabots-hoster-after-1-month/ << Ossa Sepia -- Ossabot's Hoster After 1 Month
13:25 asciilifeform diana_coman: sounds notbad for a heathen shop, except for the last part. perhaps if you write to the fella and describe wot, he'll get in.
13:27 asciilifeform 49 € / mo. for e.g. trb box, aint bad, imho.
13:29 diana_coman asciilifeform: I just fired up an email to them, as the article promisses
13:29 asciilifeform diana_coman: neato
13:29 diana_coman once I get their response either way, I'll update the article; let's see.
13:30 asciilifeform diana_coman: outta curiosity, were the btc receiver addrs they genned, trb-compat ?
13:32 asciilifeform oh nm it's in the article
13:32 asciilifeform a++
13:32 diana_coman well, tbh I wouldn't consider it "accepts btc" if not; but yes, that's why I wrote it black on white.
13:32 asciilifeform right
13:33 * asciilifeform has habit similar to mircea_popescu's of commenting prior to fully eating $text
13:33 diana_coman asciilifeform: re price, iirc 49 eur/mo is not ssd.
13:34 asciilifeform diana_coman: do you recall what cost ssd ?
13:39 diana_coman asciilifeform: iirc it was as an add on, some additional 15-25 eur/month depending on size of ssd
~ 44 minutes ~
14:23 asciilifeform diana_coman: in recent years, asciilifeform's experience was 'trb-grade box is ~100 $ / mo just about anywhere' , so consistent with this.
~ 17 minutes ~
14:41 asciilifeform meanwhile, in misc. strange from the lint traps .
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~ 29 minutes ~
15:10 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938420 << spyked this is pretty interesting. is that a coupla 100kB of base64'd fontisms in there ? ( and, apparently buncha perl-genned ???! in 1 of the cl libs ?! )
15:10 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-27 11:50:01 feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a3-thetarpit-lbs-genesis.html << The Tar Pit -- The Tar Pit Lisp Blog Scaffolding genesis
15:23 diana_coman does anyone know what eudev is? (apparently some gentoo fork of udev working with openrc but unclear at this point if it's at all acceptable on a system)
15:25 asciilifeform diana_coman: it's this.
15:25 snsabot Logged on 2017-12-19 18:23:09 trinque: "eudev" exists as an alternative to the systemd-udev. dunno what else the heathens stapled to systemd meanwhile
15:25 asciilifeform i.e. the item that used to be 'udev' before the fungus got to it.
15:26 diana_coman asciilifeform: ah, so it's at least not-fungus
15:26 asciilifeform diana_coman: depending on what's happened in last 2y since i last snapshotted gentoo, it ~could~ have spores in it
15:26 asciilifeform diana_coman: are you sewing a gentoo ?
15:29 diana_coman asciilifeform: no, it's for the irc task, I gave thimbronion the list of acceptable and banned stuff; he had this older gentoo on which he had said eudev and unsure about it.
15:29 asciilifeform aa
15:30 asciilifeform diana_coman: he appears to know about asciilifeform's orig. fumigated gentoo .
15:31 asciilifeform diana_coman: which, observe, bans the infested udev among other associated fungi.
15:42 diana_coman asciilifeform: aha; thanks.
~ 22 minutes ~
16:04 diana_coman !!key maxim_mivo
16:04 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/26F8F009F5A6D8BBEC2EF6FC2B5C010E447C6241.asc
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~ 17 minutes ~
16:21 diana_coman !!v 66FFA5A46B5E978FC493ED23C9F09595D69C7BE45162327D8B00B0AEC54F6543
16:21 deedbot diana_coman rated maxim_mivo 2 << says he's CEO of MivoCloud, my ISP in Chisinau where Ossabot resides.
~ 44 minutes ~
17:06 feedbot http://qntra.net/2019/09/2011-to-2017-idevices-jailbroken-via-apple-bootrom-exploit/ << Qntra -- 2011 To 2017 iDevices Jailbroken Via "Apple Bootrom" Exploit
17:06 BingoBoingo Meanwhile in Retard on the other side of the River: http://archive.is/jIoIS "El Banco Central difundió el listado de las personas que compraron más de USD 10.000 por mes"
17:19 mp_en_viaje hhhola!
17:19 BingoBoingo Hola
17:20 asciilifeform wb mp_en_viaje !
17:20 mp_en_viaje yay ty
17:21 * mp_en_viaje was planning to get on earlier but then... well, things got captivating.
17:23 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: can i persuade you to pop into #asciilifeform-test for 5min ? ( to see format of crosspost-indication-enabled bot that i'ma be rotating in tonight )
17:24 asciilifeform resetting bot is painful enuff operation that would like to get these 100% nailed before deploy
17:25 mp_en_viaje this BingoBoingo story of uruguay sounds quite like ye olde sovok kommunalka system
17:25 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-06 13:11:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we weren't even in hruscheba, but in the 19th-c-converted-to-kommunalka . still 100% square walls.
17:28 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, cool stuff.
17:28 asciilifeform ty for test mp_en_viaje . there's also a raw-all knob (to make syncs easier) , contains all logged material from all enabled chans.
17:29 asciilifeform with previous bot, sync was gnarly, had to do each chan separately always.
17:30 asciilifeform for thread-completeness, let's put mp_en_viaje's test here ( #a-test is a garbage chan and aint logged )
17:34 BingoBoingo mp_en_viaje: The Kommunalka Uruguaya in the form of Pensiones are targeted strictly to single people. Very similar to Ye Olde Boarding house without the actual provision of board.
17:35 mp_en_viaje with the taxi once hitting a high speed near 30 km/h << fucking makes my skin crawl. the car AVERAGED like 110
17:40 mp_en_viaje it's stil la pleasure to read bb prose. both well researched and well written, "The primary center of activity in this area is the Punta Carretas Shopping where many of the Frente Amplio's elders were incarcerated at some point." top keks
17:48 mp_en_viaje Asking 185,000 USD, apparently under contract,94 m² << but this is like $200 per sqft ?!
17:50 asciilifeform they all seem to cost 1-1.5k $ / sq m., aha. tho BingoBoingo seems to have found that they haggle .
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17:50 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-26 18:55:50 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The widely reported years ago on numerous blogs conventional wisdom is that everything is for sale and ~40-60 percent negotiated off the asking prices was a common practice. This needs to be investigated if moving forward.
17:50 mp_en_viaje that's seriously queens and shit
17:51 * asciilifeform 'ruined for life' re prices when went to ro, nao outraged that errywhere else seems to cost 10x moar
17:51 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, ikr ? literally, if you're willing to pay 20-30 a sqft you get to pick.
17:52 mp_en_viaje BingoBoingo, very nice work ; but this seems untenable on the face. i mean, even the san francisco "premium" bezzleworld's been losing 2-3-5% a year, each year, since 2015 or so. and 2s and 3s ealirer, 5s and above these days, 2019 may well close more like 7%
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17:53 mp_en_viaje and, literally, the sort of prices they quote will get you a much nicer thing in kew gardens or w/e.
17:53 asciilifeform rright but you wouldn't want to isp in kew .
17:53 mp_en_viaje to not even talk of what it'd get you in say thailand, or vietnam.
17:55 asciilifeform iirc BingoBoingo actually investigated south asia when initial isp expedition. they have oddity where bw to ~outside~ of region is astronomically priced.
17:55 mp_en_viaje anyway. this will have to suspend at least until after ....
17:55 mp_en_viaje hey asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=f%3Amirc+%22+east%22&chan=trilema << why is this returning "at least" ?
17:55 asciilifeform lessee:
17:56 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: aa, word boundarism dunwork yet
17:56 mp_en_viaje anyway. this will have to suspend at least until after http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931292
17:56 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-26 19:09:00 mircea_popescu: will be going later, but advanced reports look pretty wow.
17:56 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: properly making it go will require opening b00k re pgism
17:56 mp_en_viaje after current trip i intend to go south later this year, istanbul, syria, mebbe dip into iran, all the way to cairo
17:56 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: atm ""ism only prevents partial matches inside words.
17:57 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: pretty neat, always wanted to see a mp_en_viaje reportage of iran & co
17:57 mp_en_viaje i have faint memories of incredible real estate deals from decades ago, back when young man mp was completely uninterested.
17:58 mp_en_viaje http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938387 << HUGe fucking problem. cabs have pretty much died as a functional human activity.
17:58 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-26 18:45:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 1 immediate observation -- the cabs were so cheap , transport dun seem to be major problem ( from asciilifeform's admittedly brief expedition )
17:58 * asciilifeform always had vaguely positive impression of modern iran. tho possibly simply on acct of its abuse by the reich
17:58 mp_en_viaje the sort of people you can hire to do the work are to ofuckign moronic to qualify as cows, no farm would hire them to be the livestock
17:59 mp_en_viaje i used to own cars i mostly wasn't using, on the idea that "whatever, nothing wrong with owning it, can always set it to cabwork"
17:59 mp_en_viaje nowadays, gotta own because wtf gonna do, cabs dun work.
17:59 asciilifeform i suppose the ex-sovok phf cabbies all finally died of old age, eh
17:59 asciilifeform *phd lol
17:59 mp_en_viaje yep.
18:00 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: fwiw over here in north reich , they're ~solidly india/paki
18:00 asciilifeform some nigeria
18:00 mp_en_viaje it's dead, the whole "oh, cab's great, talk to cabbie get all the infos, solve all the problems, what you want in your life is like two dozen medallioned cars and the people who work them" is as much an artefact of aforetimes as "man who can cut veal"
18:00 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, same thing in germany.
18:00 asciilifeform hm i thought in germany turks were the 'pakis'
18:01 mp_en_viaje nope, not no mo.
18:01 asciilifeform damn.
18:01 mp_en_viaje turks got a cooler country than germans now.
18:02 mp_en_viaje it pains me to say it, but it's a fact : cabs aren't really a thing anymore. uber-stupid now.
18:03 asciilifeform iguess it wasn't from 'empty space' that the robotic cabs crackpottery began to seem appealing
18:03 mp_en_viaje http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938390 << but you can't. because it's raining. or because "the game". or because fucktard "can't find the address". or because etcetera. the contemporary 20yo, always and everywhere the driving force of this job (if never the demographic majority) is not mentally capable,
18:03 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-26 18:51:43 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if can ride across city were 20bux here, i'dve sold my wheeled coffin long ago...
18:04 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: dunno re orcistans, but over here they ask you to type the addr into a pnojetron and then blindly go where it points.
18:04 asciilifeform so, already ~half robotic cabby.
18:04 mp_en_viaje this is the insescapable pit of the problem : back in sovok 70s, an array of young men was +ev. may take some cleanning / training / tooling / whatever, but, basically, ev.
18:04 mp_en_viaje back in 70s usgistani, idem.
18:05 mp_en_viaje today, they're worse than their weight in fungus.
18:05 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, myeah
18:05 mp_en_viaje dispatch doesn't even have two way link anymore
18:05 mp_en_viaje it's not dispatch, it's excel windows in space, they "manage". wtf manage ?
18:06 * mp_en_viaje has pretty much given up on cabs.
18:06 mp_en_viaje this is like buzz aldrin giving up on rocketry.
18:07 asciilifeform the 'uber' & related chumpatrons, also appeal to the ~penniless by precomputing the price ( and offering to seat randos for cutting cost in ~half) , so apparently slowly killing traditional cabs.
18:08 asciilifeform i would not have imagined that there are people who 'i'ma take the cab if its costs 15.00 but not 15.50' but apparently they must exist somewhere
18:08 mp_en_viaje actuaklly, they do this insane thing where the price can vary significantly.
18:09 asciilifeform ( nor would have imagined that there'd be demand for 'kommunalka' cabs, where some rando d00d can end up inside with you -- why not get into the train then ?? -- but apparently this yes also ! )
18:09 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: it varies by factor of 2+x! depending on 'pressure'
18:10 mp_en_viaje which sounds like smart capitalism on the face, but in practice only drives idiocy, because
18:11 mp_en_viaje eh, where's the trilema piece where i discuss the retarded whores doing "fantasy football" in their head, judging "how much X Y or Z '''should get'''" based on how much this one chick allegedly once got ?
18:11 mp_en_viaje it encorages the broken mental processes of the plebs, in any case.
18:12 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: it's 'furniture-fueled furnace capitalism' -- offloads cost of purchase (and they want the driver to buy it, ideally, via their credit service) & maintenance of the auto , on the driver , removes ~all 'fat margin' so price wildly fluctuates
18:12 asciilifeform 'uber'ist is , last i knew, req'd to buy new auto erry 3y !
18:13 asciilifeform 'or would look unbeautiful' or sumthing
18:13 mp_en_viaje they "feel like suckers" when working for "less than the max", because obviously. then they get 1/10 the work, like fucktarded romanians.
18:13 mp_en_viaje then idle hands make devil's work, because he only works 1/10 of the workday he deskills
18:13 mp_en_viaje soon enough you have an inept usgtard on your hands, driving your cab for no reason.
18:13 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform took ride in coupla dozen 'ubers' etc , talked to the wheel-turners , found that most of'em have day jobs in bureaucracy somewhere, it's an after-hrs gig
18:14 mp_en_viaje but whatever, this is a point experimentally estgablished during the fucking plague, a good seven centuries ago : permitting the plebs to contribute in ANY WAY to the formation of the price of their own labour destroys the economy
18:14 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, it's dating.
18:14 mp_en_viaje the ~only practical function of the "taxi" apps is they're disavowed dating apps for the liberated dumb cunts posing as careerwomen
18:15 mp_en_viaje it delivers a "young dude with a car" at their door. which is what the orc female dream is anyway. now they don't have to go to club.
18:15 asciilifeform well dude-with-mortgaged-car
18:15 mp_en_viaje spend same ~5 bux on a 3 hour campari, except doesn't have to get fat ass off couch. sits in car.
18:15 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, if he's dumb enough to do that, he'll be dumb enough to get her a ring on laywaya too
18:15 mp_en_viaje it's a dating app.
18:15 * asciilifeform can picture this.
18:16 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: plox to expand re the plague if got time
18:16 mp_en_viaje you recall the black death ?
18:16 asciilifeform 'like it was yesterday!' lol
18:16 mp_en_viaje killed like 2/3 of the workforce ; as a result the fucktarded peons started agitating about how tyhey should get to choose where to work, get more wages etc
18:16 asciilifeform but yes, in marxist cosmography is supposed to have 'given labour teeth by cutting pressure'
18:16 mp_en_viaje this was tried for like 2-3 years, then king came out with soil binding and gag orders.
18:17 mp_en_viaje notthing to do with 'pressure', everything to do with imbecility of the "working man".
18:17 mp_en_viaje very much a "sexy project" problem.
18:18 mp_en_viaje what idiot decides he wants to do is always fucking stupid.
18:18 asciilifeform asciilifeform knows slightly moar re how serfdom was phased in in ru than out west. was 'staged' process, and got going in earnest under peter, who decided to create gigatonne of newly-enobled henchmen (modernize , fleets, etc) and then faced q 'how to give'em peasants'
18:18 asciilifeform previously were serfs, but could not be sold
18:19 asciilifeform but can't make noble house from scratch w/out equipping it w/ peasants. so 'wat-do'. was resolved in favour of something quite like ameri-slavery.
18:19 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: iirc in most of west europes, serfs not sellable..?
18:21 asciilifeform ( other detail re orcs -- initially, was possible for serfs to move at certain times 'day of xyz saint' etc. then phased out. )
18:23 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, sellable. with the property.
18:23 asciilifeform right
18:23 mp_en_viaje not sellable appart because wtf, it's ike selling car without wheels
18:23 mp_en_viaje ie, "not sellable" because statutorily worthless. a very wise tack.
18:23 mp_en_viaje otherwise idiots' first on the list of idiocies they like to imaginarily enact, "value in human life"
18:25 mp_en_viaje possibly the most important human contribution to understanding of human affairs : the first, and the most important possible law is the one that interdicts valuation of human life. not in the sense of it being priceless, but in the sense of it being worthless.
18:25 asciilifeform the ru variant seems a++ until remember that erry rebellion (pugachev's being only the most expensive to kill, hence prominently remembered) insta-vacuumed up massive army of disgruntled meat robot
18:26 mp_en_viaje precisely what is meant by original sin.
18:26 asciilifeform iirc in west europistan landsknecht did brisk biz being called in to clean these up
18:26 mp_en_viaje yes, so wicked is the nature of cunt byproducts, every stupidity instantly vacuums up oodlebunches of lychen
18:26 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: observation aint re 'ohnoez serfdom wicked' but re 'total cost of operation'(tm)
18:27 asciilifeform i.e. you need lotsa pro exterminators, not cheap
18:27 mp_en_viaje not serfdom is wicked. human nature is wicked, in that the converse statement of d-k problem is the one you gave above :
18:27 mp_en_viaje any stupidity instantly gets idiot support.
18:28 mp_en_viaje "disgruntled" my foot. wilfully misrepresenting themselves.
18:28 asciilifeform i dunno that d00d who picks up a spear and decides 'go out with a bang' when starving, is necessarily 'idiot'
18:28 mp_en_viaje vice-versa.
18:29 mp_en_viaje idiot, given the choice between "fix some idiocy inside" and "fuck up some shit outside", ALWAYS goes for door #2.
18:29 asciilifeform how do you 'fix inside' e.g. 3 consecutive dud harvests ?
18:30 mp_en_viaje fucking hell, go fucking discovering america. raise rabbits. what the fuck, "what we always did doesnt work" "do something else" "no, we just want to do what we always did" "but it doesn't work" "it must!"
18:30 asciilifeform 'go discovering x' req's breaking outta the konzentrationslager neh
18:30 mp_en_viaje "well, whether it must or it mustn't is irrelevant" "down with the king!"
18:30 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, what the fuck konzentrabullshit, nobody ever gave a shit.
18:31 asciilifeform what then means 'were bound to the soil'
18:31 mp_en_viaje that ~another lord~ was not alloed to take thenm ~as plebs~.
18:31 asciilifeform i dunno re e.g. germanies, but in ru there were catchers a la alabama etc
18:31 mp_en_viaje wtf, who makes rules to cockroaches. the rules rule the lords wth.
18:31 mp_en_viaje sure. and where did they catch them ?
18:32 mp_en_viaje "on the manor over the hill" "wow. and what were they doing there ?" "the same thing as here" "holy shit shocking"
18:32 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: similarly to alabama, i.e. not far. cuz it wasn't as if they escaped on motorcycles , ha
18:32 mp_en_viaje gimme a break.
18:33 mp_en_viaje the whole idea was that livestock being worthless, moving it across the land was just a waste of fuel, so don't get the indiana livestock working on your farm in alabama.
18:33 asciilifeform for completeness, 'what did they then do' wasn't always 'eh same thing as grandfather, try to pull turnips from mud', but sometimes instead brigandage
18:33 mp_en_viaje these were ~never the same ones.
18:34 asciilifeform on orc side there was attempt to institutionalize, 'ok you can be brigand right-there, on turk border' i.e. cossac
18:34 mp_en_viaje but cossack wasn't fucking farmer anyway
18:34 asciilifeform not fulltime farmer, anyway. ( viking also 'part time farmer' similarly )
18:34 mp_en_viaje which is my point -- there are two distinct and perfectly distinguishable populations. the plebs aren't the highwaymen.
18:35 mp_en_viaje imo the distinction's very vividly made in a clockwork orange. give brigand nude princess, give farm cuck nude princess. one of the cases will result in pregnant princess.
18:36 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: again this only in re ru planet, but there was measurable 'leakage' from 'pleb' to 'highwayman' , proportionate to how screamingly retarded was the crown at given time
18:36 mp_en_viaje the other case will result in retching bootlicker
18:36 asciilifeform iirc even in england was similar
18:36 mp_en_viaje this was not leakage.
18:36 mp_en_viaje there's similarly no leakage from earth into radon.
18:36 asciilifeform from crown pov 'leakage'
18:36 mp_en_viaje yes well.
18:36 asciilifeform but i think i see what mp_en_viaje meant
18:36 mp_en_viaje brigands ~stable percentile. much like niggers.
18:38 mp_en_viaje http://trilema.com/2016/honor-societies-vs-respect-societies-or-how-the-disaster-of-commons-sunk-the-western-world/ hides it, because when it's cheaper to make a thing than to steal the thing nobody can be arsed. but a thing hidden's not a thing disappeared.
18:38 asciilifeform for 'lively' son of peasant, as i understand 2 'radiodecay' paths, 1 to brigand, 1 to 'kulak' (of whom, seems , was also 'stable %' historically)
18:38 asciilifeform ( iguess could even say 1 is 'special case' of other )
18:39 mp_en_viaje none of these, notably, followed some kinda choice.
18:39 * asciilifeform suspects that 'there is no magick' and all of these followed standard predator-prey equilibriae -- but not expert.
18:39 mp_en_viaje the epitomic "kulak" is, eminently, http://trilema.com/2015/the-pawnbroker/ ; his monologue tells it all. eminently absent from there, any delusion of "choice"
18:40 mp_en_viaje which is what makes in the end the difference : out of the cuck-mediated cuntspawn, some minotity sheds the "choice" delusion.
18:40 asciilifeform 'thermodynamics proposes, kinetics disposes'(tm)(r), 'choice' aint the operative item
18:40 mp_en_viaje yet the delusion of choice is what makes the pleb.
18:40 mp_en_viaje and why permitting him to live his delusion is so deeply antisocial.
18:41 mp_en_viaje every single fucking brigand wil ltell the same story, of how he ~had to~.
18:41 mp_en_viaje and every single kulak doesn't tell the same story, of "what choice did i have".
18:41 mp_en_viaje meanwhile the remainder 98% sits there herpy-derping about http://trilema.com/2014/agency-and-other-notes/
18:43 asciilifeform 'kulak' story is moar usually 'hey the derps keep showing up to borrow money, what, i shouldn't , why exactly? they wanna buy me a 5th horse, why not let'em'
18:44 mp_en_viaje precisely.
18:44 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: seems to me that typical 'peasant delusion' is ~opposite~ , 'choice wat choice, i only know how to turnip'
18:44 mp_en_viaje he ~HAD~ to. because how the fuck not, she's right there and she forgot her clothes.
18:45 mp_en_viaje no, that's it. "turnipping doesn't work BUT I CHOOSE TO ANYWAY. BECAUSE IT MUST. BECAUSE I SAY SO. BECAUSE I AM GOD"
18:45 asciilifeform 'am dog'
18:45 mp_en_viaje same thing.
18:46 * asciilifeform suspects that mp_en_viaje is right re 'fixed %' tho. but to run w/ the analogy, the radon does stay in the ground until you dig to the bedrock, so will in effect vary
18:46 mp_en_viaje of course the asswipe then disavows it. THEN disavows it. and even pretends like the then is "instantly". but it ain't fucking isntantly, there's a space. first he lies, then he disavows.
18:47 asciilifeform at whatever time some % of farmer 'know where out is' , but while the turnippin's good , sit put
18:47 mp_en_viaje quite so.
18:47 mp_en_viaje there's even a trilema piece re this i'm kinda too lazy to dig out
18:47 asciilifeform ( then famine and suddenly you have a 800k man pugachev army 'outta nowhere!111' )
18:48 mp_en_viaje i suspect you might be confusing the polarities.
18:48 asciilifeform hm?
18:48 mp_en_viaje in my read, the pretender "army" / peasant horde was a #metoo movement. they were the idiots.
18:49 asciilifeform this model 100% afaik fits, e.g. muntzer . but less so in east orcistan imho.
18:49 mp_en_viaje ~sabbatai zevi moment
18:49 asciilifeform i recall this 1
18:49 asciilifeform mega-piece
18:50 asciilifeform imho the operative diff is where zev/muntzer/huss/etc revolt with 'and manna will fall from heaven' ; whereas pugachev et al were straight cases of 'burn old moribund aristocrats and install selves in place'
18:51 mp_en_viaje but ~to do what~ ?
18:51 mp_en_viaje see ? that's where it classifies in my head. "to do as before" "dude... they're not doing '''as before''' not cuz they don't wanna, the port is sanded"
18:51 mp_en_viaje "no, IT MUST!!!"
18:51 asciilifeform to same thing as chingis han 'to what', 'see their women driven before me, hear the lamentations...'
18:51 mp_en_viaje i very much do not believe so.
18:51 mp_en_viaje let's take a mental experiment for a moment.
18:52 * asciilifeform prepares to take
18:52 mp_en_viaje suppose tomorrow the power turns off. that's it, just, no more grid.
18:52 mp_en_viaje now, suppose at this time word comes from on high that ... sorry... that's it. we don't know how to turn it back on.
18:52 mp_en_viaje at this juncture, there will be various "self-defense" "armies" "organized" across the realm.
18:53 * asciilifeform follows along, this is traditional picture...
18:53 mp_en_viaje the largest will consist of pugachev's men : "our programme is to go find where the main switch is, and flip it."
18:53 mp_en_viaje "dude... you think the world is like your basement ?" "yes" "it won't do anything." "NO IT MUST"
18:53 asciilifeform mno, that'd be clitler's battallion, rather than pugachev
18:53 mp_en_viaje admittedly i am not a master of medeival rus'
18:54 mp_en_viaje but it is my read, stunted as it may be.
18:54 asciilifeform lol beheaded in 1775
18:54 mp_en_viaje well... eastern medieval era lasts until 1907ish. no ?
18:54 asciilifeform but afaik d00d only cosmetically 'pretender', really -- a sort of 'mongol invader'
18:55 asciilifeform why maintained the cosmetic front, still afaik debated by archaeologists.
18:55 mp_en_viaje i dunno, to me he seems just a figurehead / sacrificial goat of a bunch ofretards looking for the main switch
18:55 asciilifeform 'main switch' not , afaik, fully crystallized yet as concept, then.
18:55 mp_en_viaje "how to make it like before" "fukctards, what you're feeling is the portuguese getting a trade empire going FIVE CENTURIES AGO"
18:56 mp_en_viaje "wut" "motherfucker. the world your granpa lived in didn't in fact exist" "lies"
18:56 mp_en_viaje "he fucking imagiend it on the basis of his granpa. thing was dead like 1505." "omfg wut"
18:56 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: this is a+++ model of 'america great again'(tm)(r) lulzcows aha
18:56 mp_en_viaje of pugachev great again also.
18:57 asciilifeform 'bring back the planes' 'wat planes, war ended, this is island 8000km from humanity' 'gather straw, we'll make planes!11'
18:57 * asciilifeform less convinced, but unequipped to press the point while lacking working timemachine
18:57 mp_en_viaje not like it in the end matters, unless/until pugachev shows up demanding a rating.
18:57 asciilifeform lolyes
18:57 mp_en_viaje then we can just interview be done with it.
18:58 asciilifeform but imho still interesting, as neutrino was interesting before anyone knew how to catch 1
18:58 mp_en_viaje point remains : the hallucination of choice is the specific distinguisher between the plebs and the brigand/kulak/whatever, non-pleb.
18:59 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: 'imagined choice' can drive the imaginer into walls, but is unclear to me that the walls move, or even get dirty as result
18:59 mp_en_viaje and it's a most informative and productive line of inquiry. there's a REASON the pleb projects choice upon those, and disavows his patently idiotic applcation of entirely imagined choice, and so on.
18:59 mp_en_viaje all it does is it makes a pleb.
19:00 asciilifeform 'i'ma quit my job an' work as a wolf instead, will grow teeth as i practice' 'write back, say how it goes'
19:00 mp_en_viaje mno. that's not it.
19:00 mp_en_viaje it's this : "what i do doesn't work" "do something else then" "no." "well what ?" "it must."
19:01 mp_en_viaje "dude, it's not up to you." "yes it is." "wtf" "the dumb pleb always triumphs" "where the fuck did you see that ?" "on all anon graves"
19:01 asciilifeform well general lemay also 'it must' eh
19:01 snsabot Logged on 2016-07-11 11:31:03 asciilifeform: in ideal picture, 'nobody would dare', as curtis lemay answered when told to put out his cigar lest he set off the fuel depot
19:01 mp_en_viaje very different thing.
19:02 asciilifeform dunno that so diff. recall the sphex wasp ? the 1 that will still run the 'walk to caterpillar, see if eggs in its spine hatched' even if entomologist removes the caterpillar.
19:02 mp_en_viaje what of it ?
19:03 asciilifeform all living things do certain amt of 'but it must'
19:03 mp_en_viaje pretty sure i actually had a spex on trilema, had a nest fulla spiders
19:03 asciilifeform cuz otherwise no amt of cpu enuff
19:03 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-25 21:52:01 mircea_popescu: for this reason any imanentization (ie, mapping of concepts into reality) will revolve around a "paradigm" / wilful blindness of some kind. "how could i not think of that" is always lulzy -- if you thought of everything your head would explode. and that's a literalism : if you somehow fit all states of its own emptiness into a glass it'd go boom.
19:03 mp_en_viaje anyway. yes all living things do a certain amount of "but it must". all livign things do a certain amiunt of excretion, also.
19:04 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: i recall the spiders. wasn't necessarily a sphex tho, there are other wasps that 'smarter' and will throw exception and stop looking for the caterpillar
19:04 mp_en_viaje to be a shithead, however, must do enough.
19:04 asciilifeform iirc sphex actually has a 'while(1) { ...' in him
19:05 mp_en_viaje well, what i recall is that it pulls the cricket (nfi, maybe some others do larvae) by the antenna
19:05 mp_en_viaje and if you cut those, it doesn't eg, drag by a leg.
19:05 asciilifeform this kinda thing is ubiquitous in the insects aha
19:05 asciilifeform 'segfault : antenna not found'
19:06 mp_en_viaje they are pretty small.
19:06 asciilifeform the ants, however, interesting because in anthill there ~will~ be found some who can walk 'nonstandard' path.
19:07 mp_en_viaje was another thing, some other preditorial wasp, where it 1. drag to nest ; 2. inspect nest ; 3. deposit in nest.
19:07 mp_en_viaje but if during 2 you move it, then it resets at 1
19:07 mp_en_viaje can supposedly have it check the nest until it dies of starvation
19:07 asciilifeform while(1)!
19:09 mp_en_viaje anyway -- this was very fashionable i nthe 70s. but there's pretty serious problems with hoefstadter's critique of conceptualized consciousness
19:09 mp_en_viaje so it kinda fell out of fashion
19:09 asciilifeform it is interesting that wasp seems to lack 'rng'. asciilifeform does not know why, or what sorta evolutionary sense it makes.
19:10 mp_en_viaje this could be like saying "it's weird individual transistors lack rng"
19:10 asciilifeform given that the wasp is still around , evidently worx out.
19:10 mp_en_viaje right ?
19:10 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: poor model, transistor, it's ~nuffin BUT rng when 'out of the box'
19:10 mp_en_viaje taken seriously, the objection becomes suddenly very weak.
19:10 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, precisely. the "lacks rng" could very well be entirely artefact of perception.
19:11 asciilifeform right, asciilifeform's contention aint 'dafuq, this can't work' but 'well it clearly worx, i simply dun know precise mechanism'
19:11 asciilifeform entirely possib
19:11 mp_en_viaje how do you prove a number's not random anyway ?
19:12 mp_en_viaje which is why the discussion is carried in terms of choice. rather than in terms of "compulsion" or whatever.
19:12 asciilifeform wasp's natural env, incidentally, does not contain stealthy removers of caterpillars, afaik (they deposit'em in quite well concealed place)
19:12 asciilifeform unlike zoologist's box
19:12 mp_en_viaje im sure they have competitive predators, flies whatever
19:12 asciilifeform aha, and also vertical predators (afaik moar of the latter)
19:13 asciilifeform at any rate insect moar relies on 'horizontal' ('there's many wasps') 'rng', than 'vertical' ('if rnd()<0.99 then check_nest()' etc) rng.
19:13 asciilifeform i.e. the 'r/k' thing.
19:14 asciilifeform very easy for zoologist to laff at wasp, when he's a 'k' shaved ape
19:14 mp_en_viaje aha
19:14 asciilifeform wasp, when nests in his corpse, would laff right back, if he knew how.
19:15 mp_en_viaje or cared to
19:15 * asciilifeform on this merry note has to attend to meat : bbl
19:15 mp_en_viaje laters
~ 19 minutes ~
19:34 mp_en_viaje http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938397 << here's the problem : these are all paper fortunes. paper fortunes are protected by naught besides the owner's willingness to endure hunger. argentina's future is so dim and its prospects so hopeless, there's ~0 incentive for argentine to liquidate rather than starve.
↖
19:34 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-26 19:02:08 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: As of 2013 through a bilateral treaty the shelter part of the arrangement went out. From where I'm sitting it is hard to tell which way the Argentine winds will push
19:35 mp_en_viaje so i don't expect uruguay market will ever find price. instead, the "properties" will just decay into the ground
19:37 mp_en_viaje http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938406 << in positive news, this is possibly the best thing for a human. each year with >500 miles on the odometer under age 50 adds 6 months of ~mobile~ life after age 70.
19:37 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-26 19:17:45 BingoBoingo: Before investigating transit times it had probably been a good three months since I'd been inside a vehicle. Present tranportation costs consist of food calories above basal metabolic rate and a few cents a day in shoe/boot depreciation.
19:37 mp_en_viaje it makes a huge difference this, between being the 70yo who walks to the bar and the 70yo who can't leave the house.
19:41 mp_en_viaje http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938413 << entirely up to you, if it becomes costly or w/e, limit it
19:41 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-27 04:37:33 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938376 <-- hm. I suppose feedbot could do something along the lines of "talk (via PM) only to people who are already +v in the channels where bot is listening"; either way, there's currently no strict enforcement in place, I'll add something if/when it becomes necessary
19:55 BingoBoingo http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938480 << This is what I was expecting. I regret not taking better notes up till now on the history of advertised prices, but there appears to be a steady march downwards. I publish a selection of sample properties again in three or six months.
19:55 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-27 17:52:50 mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, very nice work ; but this seems untenable on the face. i mean, even the san francisco "premium" bezzleworld's been losing 2-3-5% a year, each year, since 2015 or so. and 2s and 3s ealirer, 5s and above these days, 2019 may well close more like 7%
19:58 BingoBoingo http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938475 << The "conventional wisdom" passed around is that they haggle. I have not tested this myself.
19:58 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-27 17:50:32 asciilifeform: they all seem to cost 1-1.5k $ / sq m., aha. tho BingoBoingo seems to have found that they haggle .
19:59 mp_en_viaje BingoBoingo, i do expect it's going slowly down, yes.
20:00 mp_en_viaje in practical terms, that's the only available option ; real estate never drops suddenly, for deep and fundamental reasons sometimes superficiaslly touched in the logs. it's just not possible, like it's not possible to dream the unknown
20:01 mp_en_viaje and yes, haggle. but this is no joke : to match eg romania, they'd have to haggle to 10%. looksy :
20:02 mp_en_viaje https://www.olx.ro/oferta/promotie-noua-case-noi-duplex-in-dumbrava-tg-jiu-IDbNzpd.html#b6aa04dabc;promoted << newly built, 150sqm, 3 room, 70k euro (also negotiable, somewhat).
20:03 mp_en_viaje https://www.olx.ro/oferta/casa-teren-targu-jiu-super-ocazie-IDbwAPF.html#b6aa04dabc << old construction, 225sqm, 750sqm yard, 95k euro
20:03 BingoBoingo One nearby property I'd been watching since arrival finally sold after a flurry of listings once the price hit ~160,000USD. When I arrived it was listed around 200k. It had my attention for being a two bedroom house on an excellent corner with attached small commercial premises suitable for shingle hanging. Even after selling and becoming inhabited is still painted as a japanese restaurant.
20:03 mp_en_viaje https://www.olx.ro/oferta/vanzare-vila-la-4-km-de-targu-jiu-IDcHTl6.html#b6aa04dabc << 272 sqm, 5 year old, 115k eur. and so following,
20:04 BingoBoingo The problem of the Rio de la Plata is the people hold the opposite of the truth in the ways in which they are rich and poor.
20:05 mp_en_viaje the salient points : a) half the prices ; b) three times the area ; c) one fifth or less the age. i expect ro 2000s construction, for all its warts, is still infinitely better than ~1970s uy construction technology
20:05 mp_en_viaje now if yo ucombine a b and c you get a factor of about 10, by my lights.
20:05 mp_en_viaje and romania has fttd ~everywhere, 2-8mbps for 2-3-5 eur/mo
20:08 BingoBoingo Meanwhile Uruguay is stuck in Argenisanity's orbit until Argeninsanity starves
20:09 mp_en_viaje seems entirely possible
20:10 mp_en_viaje not like they'll magically learn how to build ust because the neighbour's goat died, either.
20:10 BingoBoingo http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938736 << Uruguay's laws are such that they do have to liquidate before starving.
20:10 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-27 19:34:55 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938397 << here's the problem : these are all paper fortunes. paper fortunes are protected by naught besides the owner's willingness to endure hunger. argentina's future is so dim and its prospects so hopeless, there's ~0 incentive for argentine to liquidate rather than starve.
20:10 mp_en_viaje i confess i am not at all impressed with the images on this particular score : they're all 1970s pure-sovoktech relics. it's directly visible, at least to the aculturated eye
20:11 mp_en_viaje they're not all that great capital goods. obviously immensely better than usgistani paper wasp atrocities, yes.
20:12 mp_en_viaje but the cost to own / cost to carry still a factor of 2 over what it coudl/should be with saner autoclaved cellular concrete filler and etcetera. whole poured concrete walls are for you know, river dams and things, wtf, heating that, preventing water seepage, it's a bundle.
20:12 BingoBoingo In my immediate surrounding they are primarily valued as potential footprints for future residential towers so long as that activity continues.
20:13 mp_en_viaje right. which... i can't imagine it will.
20:14 mp_en_viaje i mean taking the list, right ? 1st item is literally a ruin ; that item has central wall damage from uncontrolled water infiltration. it would be condemned in europe.
20:14 mp_en_viaje this isn't euroinsanity. the item is too far gone to be worth repairing, what.
20:15 mp_en_viaje 2nd item i don't even know what to make of. seems someone literally poured some concrete, made a sort of post-wood outhouse. i dunno how it is even a house at all.
20:15 mp_en_viaje 3rd item lacks entirely outside shots, which makes me suspect it's in a building that'd have been bombed in ww2, except it wasn't in active war theatre.
20:16 mp_en_viaje #4 is exactly what i was saying above, 70s sovokism
20:16 mp_en_viaje i bet you the doors use the copper keys we discussed at some point yeaes ago
20:17 mp_en_viaje #6 is again #3, early 1900s, possibly good enough to stand, but possibly terribad, will have to drill a wall to see wtf is even in there
20:19 mp_en_viaje how can 70sqm even contain 3 bedrooms ?! hermosa y luminosa my god, wtf, caragiale'd be happy.
20:20 mp_en_viaje in short : not a single one of the items there look to me like something that'd be acceptable to carry on books even if given freely ; if yo uowned them i'd insist you sell them.
20:20 mp_en_viaje this make any sense to you ?
20:21 BingoBoingo It makes tremendous sense.
20:24 mp_en_viaje i mean, even if someone gave you a free chevy vega -- it still wouldn't make economic sense to try and run it
20:25 mp_en_viaje or whatever, an edsel, etc
20:30 mp_en_viaje anyways, ima be back tomorro.
20:31 BingoBoingo I have a strong suspicion if the investigation move to poking around the interior of listed structures the project could have turned into strictly evaluating for the lot footprints as the tower builders do
~ 18 minutes ~
20:49 * BingoBoingo strongly suspects Uruguay's construction industry peaked in the 1920s with Palacio Salvo
20:51 BingoBoingo The entire 1960 to 1990 span added ~0 to Montevideo's skyline as seen from roofs in the city
~ 2 hours 25 minutes ~
23:16 asciilifeform ACHTUNG, PANZERS! about to deploy new rev of bot. expect ~45sec of dead time.
23:19 asciilifeform !q help
23:19 snsabot asciilifeform: my valid commands are: src, uptime, seen-anywhere, help, s, version, seen
23:19 asciilifeform !q version
23:19 snsabot I am bot version 596907.
23:19 asciilifeform !q seen mp_en_viaje
↖
23:19 snsabot mp_en_viaje last seen here on 2019-09-27 20:30:52: anyways, ima be back tomorro.
23:19 asciilifeform !q seen-anywhere mats
23:19 snsabot mats last seen in #asciilifeform on 2019-09-26 16:35:48: when i have something concrete to report it'll go into #t
23:20 * asciilifeform test of action line
↖ ↖ ↖
23:20 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938795
23:20 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-27 23:20:25 asciilifeform: test of action line
23:20 asciilifeform ^ nomoar 0x01 turdola
23:21 asciilifeform this (and merged in fix of reconnector) i think covers in
23:21 asciilifeform new ver. of reader.py laters. (and then will vpatch.)
23:21 asciilifeform !q uptime
23:21 snsabot asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 2m
23:21 asciilifeform oh and the crosspost thing is in:
23:21 asciilifeform e.g. : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-27#1004190
23:21 snsabot (ossasepia) 2019-09-27 asciilifeform: maxim_mivo: it will have rack ears welded to it, if the hoster does not offer shelf
23:22 asciilifeform there.
23:24 asciilifeform this rev also knows how to echo lines of form : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/1938795#1938795 , if we decide to go there in 'reader' re 'url problem' .
↖
23:24 snsabot Logged on 2019-09-27 23:20:25 asciilifeform: test of action line
23:31 asciilifeform there are also minor improvements to 'reader' , but these need moartest atm.
23:31 asciilifeform ( i.e. not live on air yet )
23:38 * asciilifeform bbl
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