#trilema | 2019-05-04

00:07

http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-03#1910995 << no. The proposed spec results in a linear chain, the tip of which is the only place where the next vpatch could go without a schism/civil war. On your own computer you can press wherever you want in the chain (or have private branches w/e), but in public you can only release further vpaches based on the same tip of the chain that everyone has. this is defacto consensus.

00:07

a111

Logged on 2019-05-03 08:03 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-03#1910983 << mind : the consensus press as visible from your own set of seals!

00:19

Mocky

Maybe my prior comments were too abrasive / snarky making it difficult to engage, if so that's on me. Or maybe I just don't understand. Either way there's no point me trying to continue with the content of an argument that no one can engage with.

~ 1 hours ~

01:20

00:07	Mocky	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-03#1910995 << no. The proposed spec results in a linear chain, the tip of which is the only place where the next vpatch could go without a schism/civil war. On your own computer you can press wherever you want in the chain (or have private branches w/e), but in public you can only release further vpaches based on the same tip of the chain that everyone has. this is defacto consensus.
00:07	a111	Logged on 2019-05-03 08:03 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-03#1910983 << mind : the consensus press as visible from your own set of seals!
00:19	Mocky	Maybe my prior comments were too abrasive / snarky making it difficult to engage, if so that's on me. Or maybe I just don't understand. Either way there's no point me trying to continue with the content of an argument that no one can engage with.
		~ 1 hours ~
01:20	mp_en_viaje	Mocky, your ideas of what means "public" an' "private" are unsuitable in two fundamental ways.
01:21	mp_en_viaje	the first is that there does not exist a "public" or a "private" as such, in the manner there exists "good guys" or "the rootless cosmopolitans" as found in novels badly written by tendentious authors.
01:22	mp_en_viaje	there's such a thing as the private1 of mp alone, and the private #2 of mp and slut x, and private #3 of mp and slut y, and private #4 of mp and slut x and slut y, and so following.
01:23	mp_en_viaje	then there's the public of right here, but also the public of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904761 ; both of these very much public, but public to different publics.
01:23	a111	Logged on 2019-03-26 01:46 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, trinque BingoBoingo mod6 asciilifeform phf lobbes spyked ave1 : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/c0QfD/?raw=true
01:24	mp_en_viaje	the second is that however vectorial or otherwise non-scalar / non-naive extension of bad literature these "public" or "private" be defined, they are NOT properties of the user, deemed as an individual, sovereign and central item in the construction of the world.
01:26	mp_en_viaje	the novel does not follow hero ilya muromets (whom you know is the hero cuz that's who the novel follows) and from this perspective describes his adventures in the lands of public or private.
01:27	mp_en_viaje	rather, the novel follows ~the hero public~, and from THIS perspective tells the adventures of various cioloveks, ~whose names are only in the first place predicated on THEIR appartenence to the hero of our novel, the status-of-being-public~.
01:29	mp_en_viaje	for which reason : yes there is going to be a press for anyone pressing. how exactly this press is constructed out of the universe of possible pressings, that's a matter established through the interplay of domains, as defined by the keys belonging to them.
01:31	mp_en_viaje	(in particular http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-03#1911102 is at best naive : if you insist that my key does not sign competing chains [which is not even necessarily a bad idea] i will simply make ~multiple keys~, which will each sign whichver chain i wish to sign for whatever reason, and which will pass the "omg civil war" safeguard while achieving exactly no satisfaction of the bijection contemplated -- they'll still be my keys, one and all.)
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01:31	a111	Logged on 2019-05-03 22:21 asciilifeform: Mocky: re vpatches -- as i understand, the contemplated structure is a linear chain, and 'siblings' could only occur in event of schisms/civil war , rather than as a regular thing
01:33	mp_en_viaje	as it stands, i also do not see a problem with the same one key signing whatever count of ~compatible~ versions of the universe, where the key's to define what compatible actually means, following therefrom that there's exactly jack shit one can systematically do by looking at the totalized pile of keys signatures and possibilities. (the familiar will readily recognize a pattern here).
01:44	mp_en_viaje	now then, specifically as to the whole "no. bla bla", let's look at how this works in practice :
01:44	mp_en_viaje	At t0, there is a genesis, consisting of a gns file, containing a0 -> b0 ; and a manifest file, containing #t0.
01:44	mp_en_viaje	At t1, there is a patch upon t0#t0, transforming gns to a0 -> b0 ; a1 -> b2 ; manifest becomes #t1. this is signed by A, W, F, G, U, K.
01:44	mp_en_viaje	At t2, there is a patch upon t0#t0, transforming gns to a1->b1 ; manifest becomes #t1. this is signed by A, Q, G, B, N, I.
01:44	mp_en_viaje	At t3, a fellow looks to add a2 -> b5 to the gns. suppose this fellow whose name is R knows only Q. Thus therefore he presses t2#t1, and so gns becomes a1->b1, a2->b5 while manifest becomes #t3.
01:44	mp_en_viaje	suppose instead the fellow only knew K. he'd have pressed t1#t1, resulting in a gns a0->b0 ; a1 -> b2 ; a2 -> b5 and a manifest #t3.
01:44	mp_en_viaje	suppose yet again the fellow knows A. in this case, he has a choice : either he does the first suppose above, or the second. this choice is ~his~.
01:44	mp_en_viaje	at t4, another fellow named F looks to change gns so that a0 -> b8. this fellow goes through all the keys, loads up all possible tips (which are t1#t1, t2#t1, t3#t3, the last one ~in itself ambiguous at this point in our tale) and produces : on the first chain a t4#t2 ; on the 2nd chain a t4#t2 ; on the third chain a t4#t4, and signs all of these.
01:44	mp_en_viaje	at t5, yet another fellow has the choice of whether to follow F's chain, or R's chain, or the A-Q-G-B-N-I chain or so following.
01:44	mp_en_viaje	where's the civil war ? obviously if A wants to be upsed at F, or R, or for that matter Q or U it's entirely his right and priviledge to proceed ; but what ~systematic~ rule for warmaking can you propose on the basis of this flow of history ?
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01:44	mp_en_viaje	(pro tip : of fucking course you can't, if you could it'd be therefore cryptographically weak.)
01:53	mp_en_viaje	to put it in other terms -- if this fit in head, it'd be broken. the ~mechanism~ is supposed to be fit in head ; not the data.
01:54	mp_en_viaje	speaking of which, at some point a while ago hannah wakes up in a panic -- she had a nightmare.
01:54	mp_en_viaje	the nightmare was that i had ordered her to document all the water.
01:55	mp_en_viaje	nobody's about to order anyone to document all the water -- and by this i mean, asciilifeform ain't gonna send himself on such foolish errands, nor you, nor anyone else. let the water be.
02:09	mp_en_viaje	meanwhile in the dungeons, https://x.imagefapusercontent.com/u/Bicdsubslut/8082234/1242057165/bdsmlr-80572-srpk59uhcd.jpg
		~ 3 hours 5 minutes ~
05:15	mp_en_viaje	sadly belgrade's sour milks and bread specialties culture seems to have muchly decayed in the intervening ~decade.
05:15	mp_en_viaje	this is a horrible loss to human culture i guess few are apt to appreciate. but horrible nevertheless.
05:16	mp_en_viaje	basically the cheap and inedible "fornetti" crap took over.
05:17	mp_en_viaje	the industrialized croissant.
		~ 1 hours 39 minutes ~