#trilema | 2018-11-24

this linux namespaces thing is probably just more unnecessary complexity, but being able to forbid a process-and-children from using the network stack is nb.jpg for testing cuntoo build

~ 48 minutes ~

12:40

trinque if i sign a genesis for republican dns, specifically, "here's ips and domain names, one set per line, that my lordship recognizes", are you willing to replace dns resolution in cuntoo with pressing that tree (according to the users' key dir, of course) ?

12:46

hanbot hey, where's the "gpg guide for windows tards" ? i thought we had this on eulora wiki somewhere but drawing blanks.

12:51

meanwhile in the "running into mp on fetlife first 20something moron girly's formative experience, literally NEVER encountered negative reinforcement before in whole lyf" files,

12:52

LordMPofTMSR "Not even kidding." Queenjuju 21F Kinkster "Drop what now? It wont show me the rest of the sentence" LordMPofTMSR "Think of it as an intelligence test. That you're failing." Queenjuju "Fuck you" LordMPofTMSR "Lmao. What, nobody told you you're an idiot before ? Sucks, because you still are, whether they tell you or not."

13:04

nicoleci http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VeSRC/?raw=true

~ 18 minutes ~

13:22

hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Tv4dQ/?raw=true

13:28

http://qntra.net/2018/11/france-erupts-in-violent-anti-macron-protests/ << Qntra - France Erupts In Violent Anti-Macron Protests

~ 43 minutes ~

14:11

mircea_popescu: certainly am

14:12

and indeed the best part of post-thanksgiving, leftovers. shrimp in heavily wasabi'd soy sauce + green beans in heavily garlic'd tzatzichi... top tier breakfast.

14:12

trinque word. let's talk about the mechanics a little, how would this be aquired ?

14:13

do you see any merit in dedicated ports for instance ? or just maintain the necessary files on something like diana_coman 's code shelf ?

14:15

is # acceptable comment inline ? should there be a manifest also ?

~ 18 minutes ~

14:33

I'll need to read up on how DNS resolution works in musl to recommend something strongly, but might be as simple as having it read a second hosts file. I don't know of any support for including one hosts file in another in either musl or glibc.

14:34

i am not talking about a second host file.

14:34

i am talking about wiping everything it currently does, everything.

14:34

and replacing it with a single mechanism : pressing a hosts file.

14:34

your hosts file is going to contain things mine doesn't, at the very least your hostname

14:35

can have such a thing as private patches on v trees.

14:35

you can, but you'll regrind them each time

14:35

*each time someone else adds a host you want

14:35

it is high time to break this "dwim" bs about identity on the net. user HAS to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-11#1871013 ; because no, paying ain't enough here.

14:35

Logged on 2018-11-11 13:50 mircea_popescu: don't ask the customer for things you don't have to. customer pays, that's enough.

14:36

trinque i suppose so. but i have been thinking about alf's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-19#1873687 and i suspect he's very much right.

14:36

Logged on 2018-11-19 23:11 asciilifeform: the fact that it feels to noobs like 'unnatural acrobatics' is an artifact of writer suddenly having to pay that actual cost of the complexity inflicted on reader. and yes folx whined, just like in ex-ussr folx whined when they started having to pay for mains current .

14:36

ie, current dns system is simply lying as to the cost.

14:36

it's still there, even if under a rug.

14:36

oh sure, no argument to the contrary. whole thing should be nuked.

14:37

it will do away with "usg confiscated domains" for one thing.

14:37

not to mention -- no more verizon.

14:37

or w/e, "verisign"

14:37

that's the one.

14:37

right.

14:37

so imo eminently the right move, and the right time for moving.

14:38

but imo also will take some thinking, do it right (which mostly means - simply and intolerantly)

14:39

removing and cauterizing the dns mechanism in the libc is probably the thing, then. leaves no hole for it to return. if folks can also tolerate their local box always being called "localhost" no need for two, or alternatively they make room for local patches in their v workflow.

14:40

imo libc is the wrong first step.

14:40

should first nuke it on os level, THEN nuke libc anyway.

14:40

which afaik we're doing as it is.

14:40

the libc's the guy doing all the dns-ism

14:40

always easier to get rid of libc after you have functional replacement in place.

14:40

trinque for userland.

14:41

trinque is it unclear what im' saying ?

14:41

seems like I'm missing a step in the middle here.

14:42

ok. currently cuntoo has some mechanisms to do dns, yes ?

14:42

they're all wrappers on libc function calls, sure. but they nevertheless exist as components, in cuntoo.

14:43

yep

14:43

take them out.

14:44

replace them with a single component, which builds a hosts file through pressing v tree.

14:44

least ocean-boiling way of doing that is by patching the libc

14:44

so it reads only hosts file and doesn't know how to use remote DNS servers

14:44

you're conflating two things.

14:44

rather than cracking it off and then patching firefox, your mail client, etc etc

14:44

of course this means i dunno, w/e downstream program, curl say, can STILL do dns the wrong way.

14:45

i don't get it, why would firefox be involved ?

14:46

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Netifrc <<

14:46

or w/e it is you're using. are you using netifrc ?

14:47

or w/e, drop-in replace dnscache if you're using djb's package ? or w/e it is ?

14:47

yeah, that thing eats one set of config files and shits out others, like /etc/resolv.conf

14:47

then the libc reads those when asked getaddrinfo

14:47

by firefox, whoever.

14:48

cool. so how about it just reads our host file and that's that.

14:48

hanbot

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-24#1874332 << >> http://www.eulorum.org/Account_Setup under the Windows bold headin'

14:48

Logged on 2018-11-24 17:46 mircea_popescu: hanbot hey, where's the "gpg guide for windows tards" ? i thought we had this on eulora wiki somewhere but drawing blanks.

14:48

yeah, I think what you're asking for is mostly a bunch of deletes. absent w/e upstream DNS lookup it can still snarf the /etc/hosts and nobody else in userland will care

14:49

hanbot "Select kleopatra, gpg4win's key management gui, from the Windows start menu. Select File from the main menu, then choose New Certificate. Select Create a personal OpenPGP key pair. Enter your name, email, and a comment, click Create Key, then choose a passphrase. " ? i suppose you're right, though 0 chances windoze tards manage to follow terse instructions.

14:49

no newfangled tmsr local dns server required

14:49

trinque precisely that.

14:49

a bunch of deletes + the pressing.

14:49

but ~something~ is required, because think about it : you will want to have a button called "re-press", yes ?

14:49

and if you do, it'll be a "re-dld and re-press" right ? so where does it dld from ?

14:51

hanbot

mircea_popescu tbh i'm quite morally opposed to stuffing hand-holding wordsalad into a set of instructions for the sake of placating idiocy. unclear is one thing, devoid of sparkly alternative interpretational dance is another.

14:51

i ~suppose~ one manner of handling this is the followingf convention : patches to be acquired from $key/gns/ dir, for all keys in the seals ring. so it'd look for "6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452/gns" which is not a "valid" domain per usg.verisign "rules" however it DOES resolve in our own system. because we can put ips on anything we want.

14:52

and so therefore, how about this convention : re-dld gets ~all~ keys from seals dir ; looks in $key/gns for patches. dumps all the found ones in a dir, then proceeds to build and press tree, that's the hosts and that;'s it.

14:52

hanbot i can see your point.

14:54

nicoleci, how about you write a "how to gpg on windows" page and put it on eulorum.com

14:56

mircea_popescu: thing nicely generalizes into a vpatch/seal lookup mechanism for everything.

14:56

hanbot the problem i'm facing is "fetgirl wants to send me nudes, wut do". i was hoping to cheat with eulora linkage.

14:56

trinque no, i know!

14:57

cracking dns, replacing with gns, makes the world fucking work already.

15:00

hanbot

mircea_popescu in the grand circus of learning, there's no substitute for getting one's face in the cheese grater. but sure, have nicoleci teach that particular course, why nots.

~ 30 minutes ~

15:31

http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/24/proposed-change-to-w_borrow-ffa/ << Ossasepia - Proposed Change to W_Borrow (FFA)

15:31

diana_coman

asciilifeform, ^

~ 25 minutes ~

15:56

diana_coman: added the sigs, and the new vpatch

16:07

http://bimbo.club/?p=87 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 11/06/2018

16:16

mircea_popescu: i have a box of your pogos, i can probably still store them, but i won't be able to keep them safe, nor produce them on short notice

16:18

i can transfer them to ascii, if he's willing, sometime next week, or continue as is, but that'll effectively put them into indiana jones storage

16:19

my impression is that they are effectively a write off, but if there's a good use that they can be put to, i have a week of very limited time to assist with that

16:27

so ship them to alf, add to his pile of dubious.

16:28

he certainly is the one that deserves the pogo storage headache >D

16:41

diana_coman

phf, thanks!

~ 46 minutes ~

17:27

*

asciilifeform back at console and in-biz

17:27

*

asciilifeform eats diana_coman's piece...

17:28

oh hey did diana_coman find a karnaugh-shorter overflowtron

~ 16 minutes ~

17:44

diana_coman et al: http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/24/proposed-change-to-w_borrow-ffa/comment-page-1/#comment-4500

17:46

ty diana_coman !

17:47

*

asciilifeform eats remaining l0g..

17:48

summary : diana_coman was too modest to admit, but did find a 1 cycle shorter form, i'ma put it in.

17:49

splendid.

17:52

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-24#1874378 << aaand see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-12#1849960

17:52

Logged on 2018-11-24 19:44 mircea_popescu: replace them with a single component, which builds a hosts file through pressing v tree.

17:52

Logged on 2018-09-12 14:18 asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu reminds me , trinque : here's an idea, let's banish the 'root certs' and any systemwide sslism from cuntoo. if user demands it , let him install locally.

17:52

word.

17:52

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-24#1874369 << is this also true in musl , trinque ? i haven't looked closely yet

17:52

Logged on 2018-11-24 19:40 trinque: the libc's the guy doing all the dns-ism

17:53

http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-24#1874364 << it'll be a pretty savage cut, but i dun have a magic pill for making cut like this painless , it gotta be done somehow

17:53

Logged on 2018-11-24 19:38 mircea_popescu: but imo also will take some thinking, do it right (which mostly means - simply and intolerantly)

17:54

savage cut is like savage fuck -- good for what ails you.

17:55

i'd at least like ~variant~ where can switch off dns. ( sadly will prolly never be able to run entire fleet like this, i do quite a bit of interaction with heathen material as part of not only daily bread but research for tmsr works, interface with vendors, etc ) but even ~option~ is moar than what we had historically.

17:56

fuck variant.

17:56

you want a dns record, you put it in.

17:56

( ftr asciilifeform does not have a stable of slaves, like rms, or knuth, or mircea_popescu , to whom can order 'go fetch this from www for me' so that i can pretend i'm not using dns , email, ssl, etc. while still using when want )

17:56

you don't put it in, can't be arsed to put it in, think shouldn't have to put it in -- ergo not need it.

17:57

asciilifeform yours is a specious argument. i have stable of slaves BECAUSE i do not use crap. not the other way around.

17:57

not "because mp has slaves, ergo mp lives in costa rica" but "because mp does not live in washington dc, ergo mp has slaves".

17:57

and so down the entire fucking line.

17:58

a++ trolol, i promise i'll bite it later, currently got a ch13 to massage..

18:00

but will say -- i expect that the final item will be even moar extreme than mircea_popescu's scheme -- i'll have 2 consoles on desk, 1 that talks to barbarian net, and 1 that only gossipd

18:00

( nao that i think about it, this is also kinda what usg does , or at least convinces self that it does )

18:00

kinda expected, "we do what empire dreams of doing".

18:04

mircea_popescu, trinque -- i'm not even certain dnsism exists on os level, aside from /etc/hosts -- possibly it is just in libc

18:04

worth a dig.

18:07

asciilifeform: it's the libc that *reads* even /etc/hosts

18:08

if it has no dns servers it'll just do hosts and that's it.

18:10

asciilifeform: ftr this "toilet box" vs "republican box" thing is I gather what we all approximate already

18:22

Hello everyone

18:22

asciilifeform: the reverse-engineered toolchain for the iCE40 now supports a larger chip, the ECP5 with 85k LUTs (vs ~8k LUTs of iCE40), possibly worth taking a look at: https://github.com/SymbiFlow/prjtrellis

18:24

perhaps the rsatron will fit into this larger chip?

18:25

o.O

18:25

hi amberglint

18:26

oh hey

18:27

amberglint: i cannot immediately say that it won't fit! at least from first principle. ( yosys's router is pretty rough tho, vs the commercial ones of old, so it is possible that not fit )

18:27

trinque: indeed

18:28

amberglint: 'dependencies... Lattice Diamond 3.10' << waiwat?!

18:28

it demands the vendor's turd to run ?! how is this 'reverse-engineered toolchain' then ?!

18:29

my ice40 toolchain demanded no such thing.

18:29

if i wanted to continue using closed shitware, i'd be entirely happily fitting rsatron into my 400,000-LUT xilinx etc

18:30

asciilifeform: I think that's for the reverse-engineering process only?

18:30

"The documentation is done through a "black box" process were Diamond is asked to generate a large number of designs which then used to create bitstreams."

18:30

hm possibly

18:32

datashit also reveals a 'Dedicated DDR2/DDR3 and LPDDR2/LPDDR3 memory support with DQS logic, up to 800 Mb/s data-rate', wonder if this is supported in the ice40 chain yet

18:34

seems to have iron multiplier, also

18:36

also loox like has iron high-speed uarts, for e.g. GB nic - baking.

18:37

not even outrageously expensive ic, they're ~30bux ea.

18:41

there's also a presentation about it, haven't found the transcript: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTOkgDZli_o

18:42

http://trilema.com/2018/titles-are-a-scam-anyway/ << Trilema - Titles are a scam anyway.

18:49

diana_coman: i'ma put your patch into the 'official' sequence, rather than simply sewing it into ch13, i'd like to explicitly honour the work.

18:49

( i.e. ch13 will sit on top of diana_coman's patch, and the latter will be mirrored. )

18:50