Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-02-11 | 2018-02-13 → ↓
09:09 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/02/unilever-perpares-to-stop-feeding-facebook-and-google/ << Qntra - Unilever Prepares To Stop Feeding Facebook And Google
09:13 shinohai But mah vegemite
~ 34 minutes ~
09:48 mod6 mornin'
09:48 mircea_popescu heya.
09:50 shinohai morning mircea_popescu, mod6
09:50 mod6 :]
~ 49 minutes ~
10:40 mircea_popescu sooo i just spent 12 minutes writing and 28 minutes hunting for an article ;/
10:44 mod6 you were looking for a trilema article?
10:46 * asciilifeform back from the calculation mines, and regrets to inform that he does not have the juice with which to power a year of BingoBoingotron , and will not be submitting bid, unless someone l1 ( phf? ) were to want to co-own.
10:49 mod6 Any thoughts on what this 1 year cost would be?
10:49 mircea_popescu mod6 sadly, yes.
10:49 asciilifeform mod6: i was about to expand
10:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform explaining the thought process in detail will prolly be useful.
10:49 asciilifeform right:
10:51 asciilifeform going from http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/02/the-boingo-isp-tbi-november-2017-statement/ and http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/02/03/pricing-information-fun-with-numbers/ :
10:52 asciilifeform grr there's a missing param,
10:52 asciilifeform i'ma substitute in 350 for the hostel cost, iirc it was close to this
10:52 asciilifeform so:
10:53 mircea_popescu lol, the man that hates writing articles on his blog.
10:53 mircea_popescu what the fuck mess of reference will this be in the future ?
10:54 asciilifeform BingoBoingo himself costs 311(desk) + 350(hostel) + 600(food) per mo; his rack : 2834.06 ; total ~4096 (nice an' round!11) to stay above waterline ( all units above in heathenbux )
10:55 asciilifeform now the cost of filling 12 rack slots with as much cpu horse as they can hold, (using asciilifeform's method, rather than mircea_popescu's, if not clear from context) would be such : 32 cores of opteron @ 3GHz, 256GB ram, 1TB durable ssd, comes to 1600 per 1U machine; no more than 4 machines can travel in a cargo carried by a 1300 two-way ticket
10:56 mircea_popescu sure they can. you can have the whole thing shipped there in one go.
10:56 asciilifeform then will get taxed neh
10:56 mircea_popescu you just have to plan for it.
10:57 mircea_popescu well yes.
10:57 mircea_popescu but if you notice memory is 60% of the price and ~nobody knows wtf is going on... you get taxed on a third at most.
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10:57 mircea_popescu then again, this does require competent rather than bumbling courriering, so i suppose ima let it rest.
10:57 asciilifeform let's suppose for gedankenexperiment that i could borrow mircea_popescu's nazi submarine and ship'em in duty-free. that still leaves 12*1600 == 19200 heathenbuxxorz for basic vps ( rented, presumably , to heathens, who will somehow agree to part with coin? but this is separate thread..)
10:58 mircea_popescu well, i was going to take five for myself ; and was willing to even pay for them.
10:58 mircea_popescu and yes i pay in coin, if that wasn't by nao obvious >:)
10:58 asciilifeform right, mircea_popescu even already commissioned 3, they are right here
10:58 asciilifeform and paid 100%
10:58 asciilifeform a+++
10:59 asciilifeform 12 incidentally is arbitrary number, they could just as readily be installed 'on-demand', N machines at a time (where N is determined by the type of transportation used)
11:00 asciilifeform so upstack : to keep the system floating, the client base would ( at current heathenbux rate ) have to supply no less than half a btc per mo of revenue
11:01 asciilifeform ( to power the system with said btc, at the very minimum BingoBoingo will need bank acct , but this is possibly yet another subthread )
11:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo , et al : have i missed anything obvious here ?
11:03 mircea_popescu i think your numbers are within a x2 / x.5 ballpark, which is about where it's been for a while. proceed.
11:03 asciilifeform briefly upstack to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-12#1783327 : it matters 'a third' ~of what~ . if it's of the 15k list price of the box when it was new ( asciilifeform would be using the type of machines previously prepared for mircea_popescu , they are THE most economical in re bux:horsepower ) then it comes to quite a sum
11:03 a111 Logged on 2018-02-12 15:57 mircea_popescu: but if you notice memory is 60% of the price and ~nobody knows wtf is going on... you get taxed on a third at most.
11:03 asciilifeform i do not know how the south amer monkeys do their taxation, if it's anything like how the british taxed FUCKGOATS...
11:05 asciilifeform not being able to nail down that param makes all of my engineering whiskers stand on end
11:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform dude, you're talking around the point. the scam is simple enough : here mr taxman, is a box, of chassis motherboard cpu.
11:05 asciilifeform because it's potentially a 4, or even 5-fold markup
11:05 mircea_popescu 22% of $400 here yo ugo.
11:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: of the 400 that it costs among sane people, or the 6000 that it costs in monkeylandia, is the (potential) problem
11:06 asciilifeform fwiw i do not know the answer, and therefore assume the worst
11:06 mircea_popescu no, you have paperwork.
11:06 mircea_popescu "here are the numbers written down". that's how this goes.
11:07 asciilifeform let's suppose this works. ( already supposed in the 'submarine' example.)
11:07 asciilifeform simply noting that if this supposition is mistaken, it is a quite expensive 'surprise', would easily dwarf the cost of everything else summed.
11:08 asciilifeform esp if the border monkeys decide to help themselves to some iron.
11:08 mircea_popescu yes, if one day the gauls invade you will discover business is not something that can be done.
11:08 asciilifeform this also.
11:09 mircea_popescu this is similarily true of your current situation, or any other. also, meteorites.
11:09 asciilifeform well this is moar flood than meteorite, but yes.
11:09 asciilifeform ( we already have FG customers on the record as having paid similar amt for border taxes as for device itself )
11:24 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo , et al : have i missed anything obvious here ? << The deal with mircea_popescu was mircea_popescu bankrolls BingoBoingo builds isp for BingoBoingo with mircea_popescu as honored investor. For asciilifeform or whoever else may take an interest in taking over, the deal that interests me is BingoBoingo remains in Montevideo to help asciilifeform/alfteam/etc build themselves an isp taking clear
11:24 BingoBoingo instructions. BingoBoingo is offered some sort of incentive structure to remain in Montevideo for more time as hired hand rather than equity figure. On the plus side for alf, if he brings his own foreign corp with bank he has vehicle for making payments.
11:26 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i can pay the rack vendor already. the issue is your own food.
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11:26 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: you would have to come up with a method ( i don't particularly care what kind ) for converting the coinz to food.
11:27 asciilifeform as i understand this is not yet a solved problem.
11:29 mircea_popescu so would it be fair to say that 24 hours of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-11#1783278 produced absolutely nothing useful, and you find yourself for the "calculation" at the exact same position you'd have been without it ?
11:29 a111 Logged on 2018-02-11 16:34 asciilifeform is not asleep, but in fact still calculating whether he has enuff fuel to take, theoretically, BingoBoingo's rocket to orbit, or only to make larger crater on the ground
11:29 * mircea_popescu has long suspected meditation is not nearly as useful as practitioners credit it to be. like is the case with all arts.
11:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the 'useful' output is 'i dun have this money'
11:29 asciilifeform what did you expect it to be ?
11:29 mircea_popescu an actual rational process ?
11:29 mircea_popescu your output is not "i don';t have the money", read above.
11:30 asciilifeform if 'what's x, and what's y, and turns out x > y' is not a rational process, than apparently i do not know what is.
11:30 mircea_popescu we agree!
11:35 mircea_popescu that was a fabulous bit of JIT channeling btw! i'm finally fucking done with this monster article.
11:38 asciilifeform the other item -- and asciilifeform scours the logs, and finds nuffin -- is whether BingoBoingo ( or anybody tuned in ) at any point had any concrete idea of to whom (other than l1) to market the vps product, and how.
11:38 mircea_popescu wasn't really considered, no.
11:38 mircea_popescu and besides, there's not even software to do it with.
11:38 asciilifeform i for instance do not buy vps. and so not in a position to say who does, or how to persuade'em to part with precious coinz.
11:38 mircea_popescu unless, of course, you download cpanel :D
11:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it'd have to be xen
11:39 asciilifeform afaik nothing else is known to reliably work.
11:39 mircea_popescu whatever it'd be, i can promise you a) it does not work out of the box and b) you will want >25 years to fix it.
11:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fwiw i've deployed it in past life.
11:40 mircea_popescu i'm just making an educated guess.
11:41 mircea_popescu that's the skill involved here : reality consists of endless matrices, that for any practical purpose have to be heuristically collapsed, as they can't actually be calculated.
11:41 asciilifeform entirely troo.
11:41 mircea_popescu which is why the deductive-rational process is actually irrational.
11:41 asciilifeform but contrary to mircea_popescu's intuitions, the cpu slicing is not the hardest puzzle piece.
11:42 mircea_popescu ram isolation is the ~only concern. of couse.
11:42 mircea_popescu "if mp built his back-to-back toilet, how could you ~using software only, mind!~ ensure the piss of his slavegirls doesn't mix ?"
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11:42 asciilifeform well, one way :
11:43 asciilifeform let's also mention for completeness the cost-competitive alternative to vps : the use of miniature machines ( e.g. apu1 ) . but this involves manual shuffling on the part of hands ( BingoBoingo ) for every new customer.
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11:43 asciilifeform the upside is memory isolation.
11:43 mircea_popescu why ? you could just have them live all the time.
11:43 mircea_popescu the problemis not that -- the problem is he got less ips for a whole rack than i have for single machines.
11:43 asciilifeform this is true: could, and could even have'em netboot
11:43 asciilifeform i built (with several other people) a system like this, in past life, it was used for crapware analysis
11:44 asciilifeform rack full of dick^H^Hskless blades, booted via lan for every shot.
11:44 mircea_popescu yes, i agree it is a very sad reality that everyone seems to be playing catch-up with the absolute minimum bar of "marginally retarded" rather than creating novel and interesting things.
11:44 mircea_popescu but this is a self-inflicted misery. do not take the republic seriously, get what you get for it.
11:45 mircea_popescu the all-corruptor cares little for one's declared allegiances.
11:45 asciilifeform iirc there was a (lizard-declared) 'ipv4 shortage' that supposedly accounted for what-mp-got vs what-BB-got
11:45 mircea_popescu i suppose.
11:46 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Have you looked at the LACNIC IP allotment application and requirements yet?
11:47 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i did, and walked away moar puzzled than before. for instance, why is it impossible to buy ips secondhand ? ( is it ? )
11:47 asciilifeform why do you have to deal with the idiots.
11:47 mircea_popescu soh.
11:47 mircea_popescu doh*.
11:47 asciilifeform found also https://www.nro.net/lacnic-enters-ipv4-exhaustion-phase
11:47 asciilifeform 'On 10 June 2014, LACNIC announced that it had reached one /10 block of remaining addresses and IPv4 can now be considered exhausted in its service region. LACNIC will continue to distribute IPv4 addresses, but at a greatly reduced rate according to policies developed by the LACNIC community.'
11:47 * mircea_popescu never applied to "authorities", nor would. because why the fuck.
11:48 asciilifeform seems like fish is what they dun have over at this-here fish counter.
11:49 mircea_popescu anyway, that said there's nothing wrong with applying for some, as a political choice.
11:49 mircea_popescu HOWEVER, the result of that isn't taken as "this is reality". the result of that is judged and its shortcomings fixed.
11:49 asciilifeform !#s from:BingoBoingo LACNIC
11:49 a111 14 results for "from:BingoBoingo LACNIC", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3ABingoBoingo%20LACNIC
11:50 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you can add that to the list, by the way. a tendency to take what you hear as "what is" dun work irl! you know what i mean ? just cuz some chick said it from behind a desk dun make it worth two shits.
11:51 BingoBoingo I will add it to the list of shortcomings.
11:52 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/the-negotiations-of-terms/ << Trilema - The negotiations of terms
12:01 * mircea_popescu realises this is possibly the worst bait and switch ever. but i swear, unintentional!
~ 18 minutes ~
12:20 mircea_popescu meanwhile in today's late breakfast suggestions, leberwurst geraucht with green olives on homemade bread, and a sizable helping oh holsteiner fasskraut on the side.
12:20 mircea_popescu PREUSSENS GLORIA!1!!
12:26 deedbot http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/02/12/the-story-of-a-storefront/ << Bingo Blog - The Story Of A Storefront
~ 1 hours 42 minutes ~
14:09 mircea_popescu well, since btcvixen is sticking around, let's gift it http://trilema.com/2015/what-the-actual-threat-of-the-medicalisation-of-individuality-looks-like/ for great justice.
14:21 ben_vulpes something is seriously awry in that head.
14:25 mircea_popescu just the usual delusions of immortality.
14:27 mircea_popescu got all the time in the world, consequently the capital cost of wasted time is 0, consequently it is "worth it" to defend any nonsense beyond any possible limit. "eventually" (ie at t->inf) they will be proven wrong, and consequently the value of their eventual (at t -> inf) castle will be that much greater.
14:27 mircea_popescu you follow the logic or should i delve ?
14:29 ben_vulpes i don't follow the logic behind the valuation of the castle at t->inf. once proven wrong, whatever bastion was defended is overrun and so worthless.
14:29 ben_vulpes thing is proven to be worth 0 in the future after much self delusion, rather than 0 now.
14:30 mircea_popescu let's model it thusly. in the mmorpg called "life" the rules say there's two phases. phase a, where you figure out how to build a castle, and out of what, and so on. and phase b, where you sit in that castle and get GOODSTUFF, function of how well it was made. say fame or esteem or communication with god^H^H^H resplenduminous etcetera.
14:31 mircea_popescu think of it as a tower defense game, cuz it's exactly the only model the imbecile spawn of esltarded women even have. that's ALL the business, strategy, everything.
14:32 mircea_popescu now then. if phase a takes a time, and phase b takes another time, then you have a value function implicit.
14:32 mircea_popescu because there's a list of possible questions organised in a question tree ("should i figure out glass or metal ? if i figure out metal, should i figure out sheets or rails ? and so on ad infinitum) it soon becomes apparent that no, it very much isn't worth it to evaluate arbitrarily complex ice sculptures for their possible fit to be used in castlemaking.
14:33 mircea_popescu HOWEVER! because a+b summing to something finite implies mortality, which is to say, that the almighty narcissist anal child eventually ends, and what's worse, the film he blessed with his heroic centrality ends with him... it THEREFORE FOLLOWS a must be infinite.
14:34 mircea_popescu something in the vein of "1. people dying is something too harsh for [my meagre powers] to consider ; 2. if something is hard it is ok to not do it ; 3. things that are not thought of do not properly speaking exist. therefore from 1-2-3 we have proven a is infinite".
14:35 mircea_popescu however, the distortion this wreaks is that if a indeed were infinite, since the possible value of any possible configuration is always epsilon rather than zero, it is suddenly apparently worth it to consider that "well, maybe if the ice state is in the shape of the Pantsuited Abominartion herself, then IT WILL WORK?!?!?!".
14:36 mircea_popescu and so there it is, waiting to have its idiocy proven wrong to itself at an arbitrarily strong standard. because who the hell knowns what it could miss out if indeed it WERE a woman, somehow.
14:36 asciilifeform seems to me like mircea_popescu described an ideal miser, who hoards forever 'for later' and dies on a mattress fulla benjies, rather than 'neet' redditus
14:36 mircea_popescu in spite of all overwhelming evidence. because who knows, right ? science hasn't discovered everything, and it has all the time in the world!
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14:37 mircea_popescu rather similarily to how the "human life is worth more than what mp would pay to fuck the item chained to a wall" leads to impossibility (not difficulty -- outright impossibility) of allocating healthcare dollars, just so...
14:37 mircea_popescu a deeply felt notion that death's too harsh to properly speaking exist results necessarily in wasting one's life.
14:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform quite so. except what's hoarded here is the pennies of "correctness", and what's foolishly thrown away is the pounds sterling of hours and minutes.
14:38 asciilifeform somehow i knew mircea_popescu would say this!
14:38 * asciilifeform thickens the weights in his mircea_popescutronic neuralnetwork, it hath done well
14:42 ben_vulpes subject of correctness, /me has been using "hugs" in place of "shit people from shithole countries". the lefty brainfry this induces is spectacularly hilarious; "i know you're using good words to mean bad things but but but!"
14:44 ben_vulpes usg cops slowly cottoning on to the fragility of their position: http://abcnews.go.com/US/women-dead-cop-injured-dangerous-ongoing-barricade-situation/story?id=53017623 "death toll could have been much higher", also garage countermeasures finally gaining traction among le resistance; dood lit fires inside the house i imagine to foil the IR cameras
14:45 ben_vulpes it's so pleasing to watch all of these golden toilet tekmologies fall to basic 'wasp'tech.
14:46 ben_vulpes even the economist has finally cottoned on to how fragile the us navy is in this brave new world: https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21736498-their-small-size-and-large-numbers-can-overwhelm-defences-home-made-drones-now
14:51 mircea_popescu hey, good thing it was in here years ago, that way they could digest it in time for 2018!
14:52 ben_vulpes log lag, such hysteresis. next up: "gps no longer a thing anywhere usg assets are walking around outside of their bunkers"
14:55 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-12#1783439 << this thread puts much in perspective. In all my arguments with socialist aquaintances, it always seems like it boils down to "well, if there's failure that just means we haven't tried xyz magical configuration of policies yet!". I.e. "goal posts" can be moved ad infinitum (in their eyes, that is)
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14:55 a111 Logged on 2018-02-12 19:36 mircea_popescu: in spite of all overwhelming evidence. because who knows, right ? science hasn't discovered everything, and it has all the time in the world!
14:59 shinohai http://archive.is/0y01x <<< Duterte trumps Trump, "Shoot 'em in the pussy"
15:01 mircea_popescu did we already do the "la resistance" thing or notyet ?
~ 52 minutes ~
15:53 lobbes Was this it? >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-14#1369601
15:53 a111 Logged on 2016-01-14 01:40 mircea_popescu: funny how nobody in france and generally in the "nordic model" train of euro-socialistoid train wants to remember how, by and large, french society was either supportive or indifferent of the nazis, and how "la resistance" maps almost exactly on what today would be "extreme righyt wing extremism", and how de gaulle, the exact equivalent of say arafat, got to re-write history into some delusional "all france stood behin
15:59 mircea_popescu lobbes no i just meant resistance is feminine in french
~ 31 minutes ~
16:31 ben_vulpes girl just pointed out to me that the illustrator of curious george and the bunny didn't let slip a single opportunity to draw a pink little bunny butthole
~ 2 hours 12 minutes ~
18:43 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-12#1783361 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-12#1783391 << Another option with these in mind involves alf not feeding BingoBoingo indefinitely as an expense, considers locating self here after a visit to take the temperature of the monkeys.
18:43 a111 Logged on 2018-02-12 16:26 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can pay the rack vendor already. the issue is your own food.
18:43 a111 Logged on 2018-02-12 16:43 asciilifeform: let's also mention for completeness the cost-competitive alternative to vps : the use of miniature machines ( e.g. apu1 ) . but this involves manual shuffling on the part of hands ( BingoBoingo ) for every new customer.
18:45 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: for sake of argument -- suppose i were to take your place. i would then have exactly same problem.
18:46 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Well, if you have foreign corp and are presumably feeding self and pet instead of self, pet, and bingo
18:52 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: http://www.wtcmontevideofreezone.com/contacto The Tamara chick does respond to cold emails, can give you the run down of the foreign corp free zone deal.
18:54 * asciilifeform unfortunately is not in a position to relocate to unterraformed shithole .
18:55 asciilifeform otherwise , think, would have already been there, and BingoBoingo would not have had the grenade to fall on to begin with.
18:58 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
19:04 shinohai !~ticker --market all
19:04 jhvh1 shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 8902.9, vol: 15050.74309679 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 8897.0, vol: 51352.4650202 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 8884.5, vol: 7916.24617432 | Volume-weighted last average: 8896.86337773
~ 4 hours 17 minutes ~
23:21 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo soo, you're buying your ticket wednesday or what was it ?
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