Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-11-01 | 2017-11-03 → ↓
10:03 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/iVV9t/?raw=true << in other malwares.
10:12 asciilifeform in very elsewheres, http://epistema.ucoz.ru/index/0-3 << for folx who like languages.
10:22 asciilifeform in quite other vintage lulz, http://www.ominous-valve.com/xerf.html >> 'The United States lost this war, after Brinkley veered off into Nazi politics. He became a Hitler sympathizer, dropping the good-doctor act for a different kind of mass psychology... ...The US government had put up with goat glands, but those didn't sabotage FDR's efforts to swing pre-war, public opinion over to the Allies. This was way more serious stuff. It did
10:22 asciilifeform Brinkley in... the Brinkley Act, still vigorously enforced today, banning any cross-border studio-transmitter links originating in the US, including Doc's phone lines. From this point on, border blasters had do do it all from their side. A Mexican station was run off the air for this as recently as the 1990s.'
10:24 asciilifeform ( tldr : mexico in 1940s had no radio gestapo. this was used by folx in usa to circumvent the fcc racket, until quashed by fdr decree. )
~ 47 minutes ~
11:12 deedbot http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/11/02/first-timings-of-a-basic-rsa-tron/ << Ossasepia - First Timings of a Basic RSA-tron
11:12 * mod6 looks
11:12 asciilifeform oh hey hey hey lbj !
11:13 asciilifeform this is pretty neat, diana_coman
11:16 diana_coman :) thanks asciilifeform ; and once again a big thank you for carving out that mpi part - it helped a LOT
11:17 diana_coman I gotta run now for a few hours but I'll be back later if there are any obs/comments on it
11:18 asciilifeform 1s, about to post
11:19 asciilifeform http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/11/02/first-timings-of-a-basic-rsa-tron/#comment-967
11:20 asciilifeform also 1.1s seems like a pretty long time for a 4096b modexp on traditional mpi.
↖
11:21 asciilifeform plz consider posting your test harness, diana_coman
11:22 diana_coman hmm, I'll check again all the way; at a first look it is as stated but will look and get back on this
11:23 diana_coman makes sense to post the code too though it'll end up in that annoying cycle of versioning since it's far from any final state
11:23 asciilifeform 1+ sec is moar in ffa ballpark than heathentron's
11:23 asciilifeform do what asciilifeform does, post barbaric paste.
11:27 mod6 diana_coman: nice write up!
11:28 asciilifeform aha, quality
11:29 asciilifeform ( though i would very much like to see how the seemingly backward decrypt/encrypt time cost diff came about )
11:30 asciilifeform >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DrA3R/?raw=true << for n00bs : rsa-cum-crt , as seen in koch's gpg-1.4.10
11:31 asciilifeform i.e. you get a speedup on seekrit-op modexp ( but not on public-op modexp ) because you know p and q .
11:33 asciilifeform now perhaps diana_coman replaced the thing with mpi_powm( output, input, skey->d, skey->n ) or equiv. -- but then speed of encrypt and decrypt ought to be ~equal~
11:33 asciilifeform so i have nfi
11:35 asciilifeform also the expected speedup from crt is ~4-fold, not 100-fold...
11:35 asciilifeform !~calc 1.1082 / 0.0112
11:35 jhvh1 asciilifeform: 1.1082 / 0.0112 = 98.94642857142858
11:35 asciilifeform mightystrange.
~ 1 hours 37 minutes ~
13:13 asciilifeform !~ticker --market all
13:13 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 6921.45, vol: 26270.26633989 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 6897.8, vol: 96963.3613234 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 6927.4, vol: 7339.36388112 | Volume-weighted last average: 6904.22197869
13:20 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
13:20 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 6951.95, vol: 26297.12841144 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 6936.0, vol: 97023.69084883 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 6960.0, vol: 7368.49364617 | Volume-weighted last average: 6940.5625999
13:30 * BingoBoingo doing work on physical plant, connection may be intermittent over next day
13:32 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1731863 << per Elliot, math is so unfair
13:32 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 15:20 asciilifeform: also 1.1s seems like a pretty long time for a 4096b modexp on traditional mpi.
13:36 asciilifeform lol
13:37 BingoBoingo If math was fair, Elloit would have already had an ffa for asciilifeform
13:40 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: how's the brazil thing going
13:40 asciilifeform ( or nao peru ?? )
13:41 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Still wringing number out of people
13:43 BingoBoingo Using the time waiting for people to people to clean up and condense physical plant here for greater portability
13:44 BingoBoingo How goes your Rokatu-expat quest
13:45 diana_coman <asciilifeform> >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DrA3R/?raw=true << for n00bs : rsa-cum-crt , as seen in koch's gpg-1.4.10 <- aha, that's what I use, yes; anyways, will comb the thing again a bit later today and then get back with something concrete
13:47 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: still snarfing up ro lang; 'read head' worx, but training 'write head' on wrong side of planet not trivial
13:47 asciilifeform diana_coman: does it make sense why asciilifeform went 'wtf, backward' /
13:47 asciilifeform ?
13:48 diana_coman asciilifeform, yes, it does; hence my going "I have to comb this all way through again"
13:49 diana_coman will see if I screwed it up entirely or what
13:49 asciilifeform diana_coman: if you paste it i can prolly say immediately where.
13:54 asciilifeform oh hey look who wasn't eaten!
13:54 diana_coman hm, public rsa uses mpi_powm; secret rsa uses crc; still though 100 fold
13:54 diana_coman hmm
13:55 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Have you tried talking to a few meters of audio track?
13:55 asciilifeform diana_coman: do you have a disk access or some other oops in there, i wunder
13:56 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i dun have enough lsd to have conversation with a tape, lol
13:56 BingoBoingo !!up mircea_popescu
13:56 deedbot mircea_popescu voiced for 30 minutes.
13:56 diana_coman asciilifeform, this is the ugly rsa.c used fwiw http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/W42GS/?raw=true
13:56 asciilifeform diana_coman: not only you have 100fold diff, but ~wrong direction~
13:57 mircea_popescu o hai.
13:57 BingoBoingo o hai
13:57 asciilifeform ohai mircea_popescu !
13:57 asciilifeform diana_coman: this looks almost virginal, the oddity is prolly in wherever you invoke it
13:57 * mircea_popescu proceeds to logs.
13:57 asciilifeform ( i dun see any invocations of secret_rsa in there )
13:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731722 << cool. i never had a license, cuz diff era ; but had machinery.
13:58 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 16:07 trinque had a ham radio license once upon a time
13:58 mircea_popescu it was a whole subculture, you'd try and talk to people then send postcards as a sort of early deedbotting
13:58 diana_coman well yes, basically at rsa stage all I had to change was at generating keys aka source of random bits; the rest was just identifying the relevant parts and nothing more
13:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this tradition still lives, with the postcards
13:59 mircea_popescu ah ? i'd have expected early internet victim
13:59 asciilifeform 'hamism' is a land apart from time, nearly.
13:59 asciilifeform frozen in amber.
14:00 mircea_popescu where was that part about "frozen diff bits of original lang"
14:00 BingoBoingo Hamster even conveniently put call sign on RV license plate
14:00 diana_coman asciilifeform, this is literally the bit counting : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/7G7XM/?raw=true
14:01 * diana_coman idly wonders if any huge snakes swallow crocodiles
14:01 * asciilifeform looks
14:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731737 << -- >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672501
14:01 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 16:21 asciilifeform: asciilifeform finds it more than a little puzzling how little of past 30y of cheap cpu, has been put to use in advancing illicit radio -- where is the dc-to-daylight cryptospreadspectrum pirate ? why idjits still on fixed frequencies, like it were 1930s today ?
14:01 a111 Logged on 2017-06-20 16:30 phf: scussions, but also any kind of attempt at crypto communication. there was nothing to say all along.
14:02 BingoBoingo diana_coman: Immigrant snakes in Florida will die swallowing alligators, but haven't seen anything about crocs
14:02 mircea_popescu we're ~the first group with something to actually say.
14:02 mircea_popescu diana_coman crocodile is too fast for snake.
14:02 mircea_popescu i know it doesn't look it, but, crocodile is one of the fastest predators ; apex predator everywhere it exists.
14:02 diana_coman BingoBoingo, interesting; do alligators survive that though?
14:03 shinohai In other "Encryption is for terrorists" news: http://archive.is/zx5WL
14:03 mircea_popescu whereas the only sort of snake that'd bother it even conceivably is constrictor ; definitionally slow.
14:03 BingoBoingo diana_coman: I don't recall.
14:03 diana_coman mircea_popescu,I know it to be uber-fast in water; dunno on land; either way, never saw one in its habitat
14:03 mircea_popescu they lurch see.
14:03 asciilifeform diana_coman: didja actually verify the decryptions' equality to the original input to encrypt ?
14:03 diana_coman yes but after recording the time
14:03 diana_coman I even have those in a file too (i.e. each run, data, encrypted, decrypted
14:04 asciilifeform because i see a public_rsa(out1, msg, &pkey) but then a secret_rsa( out2, out1, skey )
14:04 diana_coman honestly, it's prolly faster to go through it again and then post it all and then take it from there
14:04 diana_coman yes, msg is original data; out1 is encrypted; out2 is decrypted
14:04 mircea_popescu now on the other hand, BABY crocodiles are universally fodder, birds eat them, fish eat them. huge infant mortality among crocs.
14:04 asciilifeform whereas declared as void public_rsa(MPI output, MPI input, RSA_public_key *pkey ) and void secret_rsa(MPI output, MPI input, RSA_secret_key *skey )
14:04 asciilifeform i.e. both take ptr
14:04 diana_coman ah, yes, that's just because the public key is a local var filled with the stuff from private
14:05 diana_coman the private thing basically holds anything anyway
14:05 asciilifeform hm ok
14:05 diana_coman lemme just cut the fluff and then will post
14:05 asciilifeform what's clock()
14:05 diana_coman c function from time.h
14:06 diana_coman cpu clock ticks supposedly
14:06 asciilifeform uhoh
14:06 diana_coman from the post: Durations are given as CPU time in seconds, as reported by the clock() function (time.h) and calculated as ( (double) (end – start) ) / CLOCKS_PER_SEC where end is the value returned by clock() right before starting the RSA operation and end() is the value returned by clock() right after returning from the RSA operation
14:06 asciilifeform yes well
14:07 asciilifeform on some boxes the output for short intervals is essentially random
14:07 diana_coman uhm; what do you suggest I use?
14:08 asciilifeform http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/clock_gettime.2.html theoretically
14:08 asciilifeform but i still have the feeling that this is red herring
14:11 diana_coman hm, I'd be surprised if it gets wildly different results but that would be in itself something...interesting I guess
14:13 asciilifeform diana_coman: is out1 perchance ever equal to out2 ?
14:13 asciilifeform ( same buffer )
14:13 mod6 do you have metrics from a baseline of an unaltered gpgtron?
14:13 mod6 could then compare your results to that and see.
14:13 diana_coman mod6, I couldn't find some that are directly comparable aka only the rsa ops as such
14:14 asciilifeform mod6: what diana_coman has is as close as fathomable to a virginal gpg where you can still make such a test
14:14 diana_coman asciilifeform, they are not; moreover the log shows clearly that encrypted stuff is different basically
14:14 diana_coman encrypted being out1
14:14 asciilifeform diana_coman: aite. you will notice that public_rsa mallocs if it finds that the output buffer is same as input
14:15 diana_coman yes, I know
14:16 danielpbarron !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/JDAx6/?raw=true
14:16 jhvh1 danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
14:16 asciilifeform diana_coman: quite a puzzler then: all of the most obvious mistakes, ruled out
14:21 asciilifeform diana_coman: to rule out timer artifacts, can make item that, e.g., carries out 1,000 decrypts, timed with ordinary unix time cmd; then same where 1,000 encrypts
14:22 asciilifeform this is relatively insensitive to clock precision
14:22 diana_coman asciilifeform, possibly I managed to screw it up in an even more basic way; here's the test function itself (this one gets called repeatedly for each key and each message)
14:22 diana_coman http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/AaM6D/?raw=true
14:23 asciilifeform uh
14:23 asciilifeform pkey.n = skey->n;
14:23 asciilifeform pkey.e = skey->e;
14:23 asciilifeform i am more than a little bit surprised that this didn't bomb
14:24 diana_coman hm, I looked at it and it did not; but let's check
14:24 diana_coman with a proper copy
14:25 asciilifeform and msg is always zero ?!
14:25 asciilifeform or hm nm
14:25 diana_coman no, it's not
14:26 asciilifeform aha i see it
14:27 asciilifeform i see no obvious explanation for the oddity...
14:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731745 << ok, but don't count republican accounting in fiatola ; yes you have an underprotection clause, but it's an ancillary, beloings in a footnote.
14:27 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 17:54 BingoBoingo: Rewrite in works http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731666 << No good reason. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731667 << No, attempting to list the advance as a debt by recreating necessary TMSR accounting out of log fragments http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731682 << Will try not juggling network topology in forebrain when rewriting http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731687 << There will be rug
14:28 mircea_popescu don't worry about it, trial and error, i'll ask questions until i'm out.
14:28 mircea_popescu you keep redoing lol
14:28 diana_coman so, changed those 2 lines to pkey.n = mpi_copy(skey->n) and pkey.e = mpi_copy(skey->e) ; correct?
14:29 BingoBoingo danielpbarron: ty I'll get to your message when physical plant allows
14:29 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Ah, ty.
14:29 diana_coman so far results similar in any case aka using public still 0.01... while private afterwards 1.0...
14:29 asciilifeform brainmelting
14:30 asciilifeform prolly time for gprof.
14:30 mircea_popescu did you two run into a fucking portability issue of all things ?
14:30 BingoBoingo brb, mains!
14:30 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nobody yet knows.
14:30 diana_coman mircea_popescu, so far the ~only part iffy is perhaps choice of timer basically
14:30 mircea_popescu diana_coman do you have something idiotic like say ntp correcting your clock mid-stride maybe ?
14:31 * mircea_popescu strawpulling
14:31 diana_coman but in a few hours I'll have more uninterrupted time on my hands and I'll be able to go a bit deeper into it
14:32 asciilifeform !!up apeloyee
14:32 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
14:32 apeloyee asciilifeform: don't be silly, the discrepancy is due to using low public exponent
14:33 asciilifeform apeloyee: why would this make crt a 100x ~slower~ op , instead of 4x faster
14:33 mircea_popescu holy...
14:33 mircea_popescu !!rated apeloyee
14:33 deedbot mircea_popescu rated apeloyee 1 at 2017/09/20 22:18:33 << Makes alf re-read.
14:34 asciilifeform we weren't comparing gpgmpi to ffa ; but gpg.publicmodexp vs gpg.privatemodexp
14:34 apeloyee it's _encryption_ that's unreasonably fast, due to using 65537 as exponent
14:34 mircea_popescu !!rate apeloyee 2 might be the smartest guy here, actually.
14:34 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jsJRp/?raw=true
14:35 apeloyee decryption is forced to do full-size exponentiation
14:35 asciilifeform defo apeloyee has better reading comprehension. i entirely missed the line where diana_coman clearly wrote, she used 65537
14:35 asciilifeform so yes
14:36 mircea_popescu i r impressed, also missed.\
14:36 asciilifeform i nominate this d00d to replace me when i'm killed.
14:36 mircea_popescu whole fucking point of intelligence is not to miss.
↖
14:37 asciilifeform of a good sapper at any rate.
14:37 mircea_popescu on a side note, if you ever wondered whence the "transhumanist" etc-rationalistrs come from, check out this little gem teh loney uncovered in my absence : http://trilema.com/2010/calea-spre-idiotenie/#comment-123389
14:38 asciilifeform dafuq is ikigai
14:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731778 << cable comms work well in some situations, with spools and runners as deployed in ww2. yes cable can be cut -- by the time it is you're gone anyway.
14:38 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 18:18 asciilifeform: they are imho an intrinsically usgistic item -- costly, fragile, vulnerable, conspicuous.
14:38 diana_coman oh my; thank you apeloyee
14:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform dafuq is anything else. what, you understand "transhumanism" but not "dfhgkerjhtkr" ?
14:39 mircea_popescu they're words they use.
14:39 asciilifeform diana_coman: i wrongly assumed you had fuckgoats output for exponent just same as for key
14:39 asciilifeform because this was in the tentative 'standard' as a variant
14:39 asciilifeform and entirely missed the line in the orig article stating that this was not so...
14:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's spamology tho, not broken modem, generally there's some consistency neh
14:40 mircea_popescu the rationale is that there ~might~ be some approaches based on pre-established exponents. this is vague, but still, why magic number.
14:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i have not yet managed to find the 1 ton of earthworms required to put through the blenders so as to extract the definition of any of these nuts' terms.
14:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: cables also work well in another context: cuckolding. if you know what yer doing you can ride signal on top of , e.g., cable tv lines, or whatever derperies of the landscape
14:41 mircea_popescu the advantage of small batshit cults is that there's not enough of them to discover where they self-contradict.
14:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in ffa world, you don't lose anything by using a W-bit prime for the public exponent.
14:42 mircea_popescu (kinda why historically these were "secrets", from eleusis to scientology. the less material, the easier the complexity load)
14:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, i know. from the pov of rsa-being-attacked, it's probably better to have non-standard exponent than "everyone uses 65537"
14:42 asciilifeform aha, and the wider, the better.
14:43 mircea_popescu but this is nothing i can prove in any degree of particuliar.
14:43 asciilifeform the only thing you can prove is that it dun cost you nuffin.
14:43 mircea_popescu this, yes.
14:43 asciilifeform ( other than the basic cost of using ffa )
14:43 diana_coman asciilifeform, guess my next run will have to be with an fg-generated exponent as well; it's not a big deal to add that now; but this was very first run of the very minimal thing
14:43 asciilifeform diana_coman: i expect that you will find the expected 4:1 result then.
14:43 mircea_popescu yee.
14:43 asciilifeform it will be very interesting if not.
14:43 diana_coman <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform no, i know. from the pov of rsa-being-attacked, it's probably better to have non-standard exponent than "everyone uses 65537" <- this
14:44 mircea_popescu also it will have the interesting side effect of exposinbg the shit quality of the imperial hardware/software stacks whenever they try to use our keypairs.
14:44 asciilifeform diana_coman: the folx with custom rsa-bruting silicon , i expect are pissing themselves as we speak
14:44 mircea_popescu i expect a full half of extant rsatrons simply crash if exponent 1kbit
14:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: at the very least they will sit around mallocing for a good spell
14:45 apeloyee fwiw, I understand "transhumanist" as "fantasising about entities which are non-human except in the ways dear to me (which in practice will mean they're either impossible or are just broken humans)" work?
14:45 mircea_popescu apeloyee but does this heuristic pass your own criteria for what a definition is ?
14:45 asciilifeform apeloyee: as i understand it was originally 'what if we had memory implants' etc.
14:45 mircea_popescu i also have a vague sense of which categories of psychogenic noise are involved, but...
14:46 asciilifeform bastard child of 'intelligence amplification' as imagined in 1970s, when 'computer won't suck' was still possible to easily contemplate
14:46 mircea_popescu a perfectly valid alt-approach would be to say "transhumanist" is how the new generation of idiots (that call themselves socialists) call "the new man".
14:46 mircea_popescu lenin, also "transhumanist"
14:46 apeloyee not really, but then fantasies don't need rigorous definition
14:46 mircea_popescu actually, fantasies are rigorously defined, yes.
14:47 mircea_popescu there's such a thing as a classification of insanity loci.
14:47 asciilifeform fantasies of stupid folx tend to resolve to some simple combo of physiological hungers being satisfied
14:47 asciilifeform ( iirc mircea_popescu had a piece re subj )
14:49 asciilifeform apeloyee: upstack, it becomes clear that koch put in crt strictly so that gpg can shit out your private key when uncorrected memory flip
14:49 asciilifeform because that's the only thing it accomplishes here
14:49 apeloyee but you ripped asm, which gpg would usually use, no?
14:50 apeloyee *ripped out
14:50 asciilifeform i did. however this affects both priv and pub op equally
14:52 apeloyee would need to check the no-crt version
14:52 asciilifeform pretty easy to do, flip the 0 to 1 in the quoted snippet.
14:52 asciilifeform ( incidentally there will be no crtism in ffa . )
14:53 asciilifeform though i suppose if someone wants to write pcode for a crtistic rsa, i cannot stop him
14:56 apeloyee because that's the only thing it accomplishes here << how did you come to this conclusion
14:58 apeloyee incidentally, how about http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-11#1601593 ?
14:58 a111 Logged on 2017-01-11 19:10 asciilifeform: incidentally if this were me, i'd make a voyage-only wot key, rate it +1, then at the end, when getting back to home, sign statement 'my voyage key was uneventfully used N times and then incinerated' or 'pygmies stole my voyage key K and signed audacious forgeries F1, F2...' depending on how it went.
14:58 asciilifeform i suppose can disagree if diff b/w 4 and 1 sec matters, lol
14:58 asciilifeform apeloyee: i actually did this the other day. it was publicly used 0 times.
14:59 asciilifeform ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731744 )
14:59 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 17:20 deedbot: asciilifeform unrated ascii_in_orcland.
14:59 asciilifeform ( well, technically 1 time, but prior to voyage. )
15:00 apeloyee how's 'p' going? still 'need GCD!!!11one'?
15:01 asciilifeform apeloyee: i used your barrettism
15:01 asciilifeform ( iirc posted 2wk or so ago )
15:02 asciilifeform still gotta finish the , yes, gcd, then miller-rabin, then autotests, then that's it
15:02 asciilifeform !!up apeloyee
15:02 deedbot apeloyee voiced for 30 minutes.
15:03 asciilifeform asciilifeform did not touch ffa/p at all other than on airplane, in past wk
15:03 apeloyee you wanted modexp in <1s, do you consider current 2s OK?
15:04 asciilifeform apeloyee: it's <1s already on just about any comp the readers are likely to have. 2s on my 2009 opteron.
15:05 asciilifeform i'ma also try unrolled comba, to compare, but do not want to spend eons on this type of massage, it can happen after release of p.
15:05 asciilifeform ( i already have, and posted, an unrolled comba -- see august log. )
15:05 asciilifeform it was approx 30% faster on mult per se.
15:06 apeloyee what gcd did you choose?
15:07 asciilifeform currently puzzling over the one apeloyee posted
15:07 apeloyee problems?
15:09 asciilifeform problems closing the 'and here we omit' holes
15:09 asciilifeform apeloyee: if you have an updated ver repaste plox.
15:09 apeloyee no, don't have, sorry.
15:10 asciilifeform aite.
15:12 asciilifeform apeloyee: don't hesitate to write in if you find one.
15:12 asciilifeform this goes for the other eagle eyes likewise.
15:13 asciilifeform i promise to actually read instead of allergically barfing.
15:19 apeloyee asciilifeform: problem is I have nfi what's non-obvious to you. I thought most things i posted was obvious, but apparently not
15:20 asciilifeform nonobvious i found the aspect where it's supposed to be faster than naive gcd
15:20 asciilifeform (that is, naive gcd with muxed output rather than the ordinary conditional termination)
15:21 apeloyee the division in ffa is slow
15:21 apeloyee that's why
15:22 asciilifeform btw iirc at one time apeloyee posted a newtonian divider, using secretbitcount and secretshift, but the paste got gc'd and it seems i dun have a copy...
15:23 * asciilifeform prolly oughta set up a perlism to fetch all pastes and save locally, because this is getting ridiculous
15:23 apeloyee it was only an idea for the same, not actual description
15:23 asciilifeform idea is ok.
15:25 asciilifeform i suspect that 'naive' gcd with newtonian divider will be goodenuff speedwise.
15:26 apeloyee my copies of stuff I pasted only has a header entitled "1. Reciprocal calculation by Newton's method", but no content
15:26 asciilifeform ugh
15:26 asciilifeform fortunately mr newton wrote it down...
15:32 asciilifeform in other impressive-if-true tech, http://hflink.com/olivia >> 'Olivia is one of the most robust methods of text keyboarding, that can perform superbly for long distance communications in ionospheric noise conditions where other modes fail. It is possible to communicate worldwide using Olivia with as little as a few watts of transmitter power... Olivia is different from some other types of amateur radio digital keyboarding methods, be
15:32 asciilifeform cause it can often be decoded perfectly in the most poor signal-to-noise conditions, even when the human ear cannot discern the presence of the signal, and even when it cannot be easily seen on the conventional waterfall spectrum display'
15:33 asciilifeform ^ per asciilifeform's current understanding, thing is untriangulable unless enemy knows the freq keying pattern, or is standing in the near field of your transmitter.
↖ ↖
15:36 ben_vulpes ho ho
15:36 apeloyee and as usual, "to use it, download this here windows turd".
15:36 ben_vulpes how does it work?
15:36 asciilifeform apeloyee: i dun think anyone here would seriously consider using the turd
15:36 apeloyee how does it work? <<magic!
15:36 ben_vulpes http://hflink.com/olivia/olivia12a.html#formats >> 404
15:37 asciilifeform reversing wtf it does, is on asciilifeform's conveyor.
15:37 apeloyee how about designing your own
15:37 asciilifeform apeloyee: i found the thing in the course of designing own.
15:37 asciilifeform multi-year thing.
15:37 asciilifeform every once in a while i find the dessicated corpses of folx who were doing evidently ~same thing i was.
15:38 apeloyee one reason those seem impressive is that classical analog modes are so inefficient.
15:38 asciilifeform indeed
15:39 apeloyee \read condition of shannon's noisy channel coding theorem, compare with what clssic modes do, and weep.
15:40 asciilifeform ideally what one'd like is item that is not physically distinguishable from thermal noise to anyone without the key.
15:41 apeloyee needs more wide spectrum
15:41 apeloyee that that olivia thing
15:42 asciilifeform can't be too wide or you get propagation (and multipath) problems
15:43 asciilifeform most of spectrum is not esp. desirable real estate if you want 1000s of km through air
15:43 apeloyee you will have to deal with multipath . narrow spectrum modes is just pretending problem doesn't exist, they just stop working on destructive interference
↖
15:44 asciilifeform can deal with it same as with everything else, by lubycode-cum-rsa (i.e. distiller of signal from noise , followed by authenticator )
15:45 apeloyee if you accept ~ minute latency, perharps.
15:45 asciilifeform days is ok.
15:45 asciilifeform the q remains of how one might hide a 100kW transmission from hitler. 1 possible method is to mimic the noise of a natural phenomenon, like lightning strike.
15:46 asciilifeform another is to mimic a common source of crapola, e.g. defective electric motors.
↖
15:46 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731781 << you'll note that it's unclear whether the millions us spent to tap produced a net profit for the us or su side.
15:46 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 18:31 asciilifeform: didn't save su cable in sea of japan from 'ivy bells' .
15:46 mircea_popescu in any case the untapping cost what, 50k ?
15:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is difficult to reason about 'was doing x to su +ev' -- sorta like you shoot a man, but he dies of fright first, and then ask whether bullet was wasted
15:47 apeloyee the third is to spread it over several tens of MHz.
15:47 mircea_popescu part of the reason the us believed su is nuclear-capable though.
15:49 asciilifeform apeloyee: it is not clear to me that 'tens' suffices
15:49 asciilifeform for 'below noise floor'
15:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731785 << no but the 2012 statement doesn't count because it was you know "unfairly" too soon. only the 2017 restatement counts, because CORRECT COLOR OF BITS!11
15:49 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 18:34 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the world of 'totally not stolen from #t', https://archive.is/UuRQt
15:49 mircea_popescu and other imperial halucinaria.
15:50 asciilifeform at any rate drawing a plot like http://www.oliviamode.com/OliviaView.htm should not be possible for proper item.
↖
15:50 mircea_popescu but, for they interested in ancient history, the phillip g potter dood was there at c1, trying to sell his stuff. it didn't take.
15:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there's lately a bacchanalia of 'totally not phuctor'ism, i only linked a few representative turds
15:50 asciilifeform waitasec whossat
15:51 mircea_popescu named in the linked item.
15:51 mircea_popescu "consultant" or w/e.
15:51 asciilifeform aaa
15:51 asciilifeform aaaaaaa
15:51 asciilifeform asciilifeform eggoged internally, thought $link was to the primes thing on same day.
15:52 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731792 << hey, this is exactly how we got "out democracy". all dem experts with human rights, by virtue of turds that sat themselves right next to genuine article.
15:52 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 19:11 asciilifeform: and to shelve them right next to actuals.
15:52 * asciilifeform still palpably brainfucked after $expedition
15:53 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731800 << o.O that was a long ti,e
15:53 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 19:46 doppler: haha, the last list item is great
15:53 mircea_popescu time*
15:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i find it worth noting that doppler reappeared immediately after asciilifeform unrated for inactivity
15:53 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731804 << it always had a front as sewing machine producer etc.
15:53 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 20:19 asciilifeform: http://www.umcugir.ro/Buget-Bilanturi%20contabile.html << public statements, interestingly.
15:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'i keep bringing home parts but always get maxim!!' (tm)(r)
15:53 mircea_popescu quite
15:54 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731805 << romania sold arms independently in the 90s. extremely profitable. then "joined nato", extremely not profitable anymore, but hey, "we're all part of a greater thing" and other consolations.\
15:54 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 20:19 asciilifeform: went, apparently, into the black, when absorbed into the reich machine.
15:55 asciilifeform they mega-sold, even to hobbyists in usa
15:55 asciilifeform but nomoar.
15:55 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731801 << ahaha an exception amirite ? "effective counsel is sufficient cause to remove attorney-client priviledge!111"
15:55 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 19:47 BingoBoingo: And in other SOPs Sopping slop: "Chief Judge Beryl A. Howell of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia had agreed to allow Robert Mueller to use something called the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege to compel testimony from an attorney who formerly represented Paul Manafort and Manafort’s onetime employee Rick Gates."
15:55 asciilifeform ( ro kalash was eeeverywhere for a while in early 2010s )
15:55 mircea_popescu tell you what : criminal lawyer either uses rsa or isn't.
15:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha. part and parcel of the great benefits romania derived from it's great loving western neighbour stealing all its shit.
15:56 asciilifeform ymean eastern
15:57 asciilifeform ( at least on my globe... )
15:57 mircea_popescu us is western to romania.
15:57 asciilifeform hm i thought was re su
15:57 asciilifeform and the yellowcake.
15:58 mircea_popescu well, in the 50s su stole romania's u-quartz, grain, train cars etc.
15:58 asciilifeform what did us steal? it can't have been the gurlz, they were still there on sunday
15:58 asciilifeform ah hm.
15:58 mircea_popescu in the 00s us stole romania's nuclear tech, fine mechanics plants, etc.
15:58 mircea_popescu differences entirely absent.
15:58 asciilifeform i went into campus of 'umt' in timis, it was fascinating
15:58 asciilifeform massive townlet of abandoned pripyat-style megafactory, with a little modern thing in the middle making bmw transmissions
15:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731816 <<< it's deliberately "simple english" "patriotism" stuff.
15:58 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 20:46 asciilifeform: i'll let the actual ro-boriginals settle this one, lol
15:59 mircea_popescu history-less item, basicalyl a sort of advertisment.
15:59 mircea_popescu petrocheese, in a word.
15:59 asciilifeform hence http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731808
15:59 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 20:31 asciilifeform: ^ approx. a ro-flavoured 'широка страна моя родная'.
15:59 asciilifeform it stuck to asciilifeform's head precisely because screaming sovokism
15:59 mircea_popescu well, no, inasmuch as that was made by and for the local soviets.
16:00 apeloyee fwiw pediwikia claims that Olivia is designed to resist multipath: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_MFSK#History
16:00 mircea_popescu this is more like "usg pr experts reusing superficial arrangements of ro folklore"
16:00 asciilifeform apeloyee: i'm not so fixated on 'olivia' per se, but the principle.
16:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hey, at least it beats bush's 'and i luvv to live in amerikka, where at least iknow i'm phreee!111'
16:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-01#1731822 << nb. i vaguely recall discussing the old ro instruments at some point.
16:01 a111 Logged on 2017-11-01 21:00 davout: gets actually started after a minute or so
16:01 asciilifeform ( i fughet the title, it was pestilential )
16:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they do know they're free, so...
16:04 mircea_popescu diana_coman is m-r upper-bounded by 1/4 ^ 12 ? or lower ?
16:08 asciilifeform in other ancient rf lulz, nazis had 'hellschreiber', a kind of skytale for spectrum
16:08 asciilifeform ( skitale ? )
16:08 mircea_popescu the spartan item ?
16:08 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-09#1695948 aha it
16:08 a111 Logged on 2017-08-09 17:59 mircea_popescu: basically they had this early elliptic curve crypto, implemented as an arbitrary cone on which they wrapped a string. because the string is fixed length see, whereas the section of cone is not.
16:09 mircea_popescu fun fact : most actual applciations were lazy, used plain stick.
16:09 asciilifeform https://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/hellschreiber-function-operation.htm << subj
16:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha equiv to today's dud keys lol
16:10 mircea_popescu (cylinder scytale trivially broken using two rigid sticks -- alter distance)
16:10 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
16:10 mircea_popescu justsayin'. "convenience", 500 bc, 2000 ad.
16:12 apeloyee i find it worth noting that doppler reappeared immediately after asciilifeform unrated for inactivity << perharps notification in IRC client on mention
16:12 asciilifeform possib
16:12 diana_coman mircea_popescu, huh, not that clear in my text, is it; will update; specifically: with 12 iterations probability that M-R falsely returns prime on a non-prime is less than (1/4)^12
16:12 apeloyee !#s "fuck you Anduck"
16:12 a111 1 result for "\"fuck you Anduck\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22fuck%20you%20Anduck%22
16:12 mircea_popescu diana_coman right.
16:12 asciilifeform incidentally the spreadspectrumtron popularly attributed to h. lamar ( the hot chix ) was skitale principle but turning ~freq~ knob
16:12 asciilifeform mechanically.
16:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1731835 << it's literally in ben_vulpes 's paste homepage!
↖
16:14 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 02:31 lobbes: while probably elementary to most here, I just discovered that I can send POST requests with curl. One single line! The simple joys of n00bdom.
16:15 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1731843 << yup, it's the correct approach.
16:15 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 02:41 trinque: archiver process breaks, can fix, restart, keep munching on work queue
16:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1731848 << a word to the wise, don't bake exceptions in.
↖
16:18 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 02:46 lobbes: anyways, for the wotpastes specifically, I plan to download and store those myself from the get-go (and NOT route them through archive.is), seeing as those are easily 'flagged' due to the predictable url. To alf's point, even if archive.is stays up, diddling is always a threat. Any bits I can do without it now is +ev imo
16:18 mircea_popescu you'll come to regret them.
16:20 mircea_popescu !~ticker --market all
16:21 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7071.99, vol: 27186.03264905 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7082.2, vol: 99361.03874681 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7070.0, vol: 7465.52633086 | Volume-weighted last average: 7079.44914806
16:21 mircea_popescu o wow srsly ?
16:21 mircea_popescu i should travel more often.
16:22 asciilifeform notbad, castle-mircea_popescustein in timis costs not so much moar than what asciilifeform lost on bbet, lol
16:22 asciilifeform ( and the infamous kakotoyota could buy the whole orchestra )
16:23 mircea_popescu meanwhile in chef's salads, http://78.media.tumblr.com/c80197dcb9e37197b9010a2be8aaf1e8/tumblr_nmc3qnovSz1stzc8to1_1280.jpg
16:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1732128 << moar phase locked goodies eh
16:29 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 19:33 asciilifeform: ^ per asciilifeform's current understanding, thing is untriangulable unless enemy knows the freq keying pattern, or is standing in the near field of your transmitter.
16:29 asciilifeform loosely speaking yes.
16:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1732148 << check it out, he understands radio too.
16:30 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 19:43 apeloyee: you will have to deal with multipath . narrow spectrum modes is just pretending problem doesn't exist, they just stop working on destructive interference
16:30 asciilifeform iirc physics d00d.
16:30 mircea_popescu i thought maffs.
16:31 asciilifeform logs in , at any rate, from chernogolovka, the su mega-mecca
16:31 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1732153 << ideal is to not use the mw for anything.
16:31 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 19:46 asciilifeform: another is to mimic a common source of crapola, e.g. defective electric motors.
16:32 asciilifeform ain't no miracles, nothing is crossing ocean without some palpable wattage
16:32 asciilifeform ( how much suffices, is open to question )
16:32 mircea_popescu right.
16:35 asciilifeform fwiw su illegals in 1950s all had burst encoders ( punched tape ) , song starts and finishes in few sec. but otoh they did not need to shout across ocean, but only to nearest sovembassy.
16:39 asciilifeform http://www.cryptomuseum.com/spy/r350/burst.htm << photo of subj
~ 43 minutes ~
17:23 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1732242 << shit. So it is. Looks like I fail the intelligence test, as per: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1732028
17:23 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 20:14 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1731835 << it's literally in ben_vulpes 's paste homepage!
17:23 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 18:36 mircea_popescu: whole fucking point of intelligence is not to miss.
17:23 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1732246 << because one day the $item-I-am-excepting will be $no-longer-the-item-I-should-be-excepting?
↖
17:23 a111 Logged on 2017-11-02 20:18 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-02#1731848 << a word to the wise, don't bake exceptions in.
17:26 lobbes And if that is the case, couldn't it be mitigated through not having the exceptions baked into code, but rather in a separate 'exception list' that can be altered easily?
17:27 lobbes I'll bbl. Meatworld calls
17:27 ben_vulpes lobbes: also look into wget; curl's been...swiss cheese of late
~ 38 minutes ~
18:05 jurov ben_vulpes: also http://explo.yt/post/2016/03/02/Wget-malignant-featuritis
18:06 ben_vulpes oh dear
18:06 ben_vulpes yeah i forgot about that
18:18 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
18:18 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7055.11, vol: 27919.80860287 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7055.8, vol: 100610.28812863 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7085.0, vol: 7590.82131927 | Volume-weighted last average: 7057.28682008
18:18 BingoBoingo Ah, crashing continues apace
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
19:36 asciilifeform in other upstacks, http://www.w1hkj.com/modes/index.htm << rf encodings zoo.
~ 24 minutes ~
20:01 asciilifeform in very other vintagelulz, http://www.alternatewars.com/WW3/Trigons/Trigons.htm
20:01 asciilifeform ^ detritus from usg war games of 20th c.
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