Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-09-15 | 2016-09-17 → ↓
00:30 BingoBoingo "member berries"
00:36 BingoBoingo I am astounded at that wordplay
~ 29 minutes ~
01:06 mircea_popescu phf back in her younger days chet held open kitchen for the girls of the neighbourhood + some foster kids ; because she could cook, and wasn't an idiot - which was more than could be said about the respective girls' mothers/grandmothers.
01:06 mircea_popescu the list of things modern derp doesn't realise could do because never had opportunity to find out is long indeed.
01:09 mircea_popescu phf "for a thousand dollars i make my own hole". who cares what exists in english ? MAKE it. Pizdanutsya = cuntilized or w/e.
~ 7 hours 32 minutes ~
08:42 mircea_popescu in other lulz, if one googles for argentina's writer's union, the only result is BOXING writers union. that's it.
08:42 mircea_popescu they got borges, and that's good enough. what if he's president for life of an item that doesn't exist.
08:43 mircea_popescu "President of the Argentine Society of Writers and as Professor of English and American Literature at the Argentine Association of English Culture"
08:43 mircea_popescu now find these things.
08:45 mircea_popescu the entire western canon, 1966-2016, is a fabrication. the entire fucking thing. not "global warming" or "smoking kills" or "rape on campuses" or "barack obama, scholar" or whatnot other pinpoint nonsensical "movements". not even "environmentalism" or "feminism" or you know, "war on" this or that.
08:45 mircea_popescu no. the ENTIRE FUCKING THING. all of it.
08:47 mircea_popescu condolezza rice was literate, carly fiorina was an exemplary woman, blablabla in the exact same sense elliot rodgers was a supreme gentleman "descended of aristocracy".
08:52 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/09/alibaba-clamps-down-on-internal-theft/ << Qntra - Alibaba Clamps Down On Internal Theft
08:53 shinohai And so that is the end of Alibaba and the 40 thieves.
08:54 BingoBoingo shinohai: off by factor of ten
08:56 shinohai *Alibaba and the 4 moon-thieves
09:00 mircea_popescu heh
09:00 mircea_popescu who the fuck wants cake bad enough to steal it
09:01 * mircea_popescu shudders at the hamplanet problem china is prolly hatching
09:02 BingoBoingo lol, anyways apparently southpark season 20 started this week. I am still lolling at their "member berries" wordplay
09:03 shinohai !~later tell mod6 You might appreciate: https://twitter.com/ECorpCEO/status/776519710259019777
09:03 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
09:04 mircea_popescu shinohai i can't help but notice the fascination with this mysterios ceo figure in the usg.pinoy dept.
09:07 shinohai Pop culture poisoning
09:08 mircea_popescu i suppose it's supposed to be "funny" ; the only problem being that cancerous fags can't possibly be funny. not no matter how hard they try ; not just because they try too hard.
09:18 BingoBoingo But funny things can happen to them. Like when the token trophy Muslim Hillary advisor got cucked by her man's sexts to all the twitter pr0n spammers.
09:23 BingoBoingo brb
~ 56 minutes ~
10:20 mircea_popescu tru.
10:24 mod6 morning Gentlemen.
10:24 mod6 <+shinohai> !~later tell mod6 You might appreciate: https://twitter.com/ECorpCEO/status/776519710259019777 << lol! did you see the latest one?
10:24 mod6 I watched it lastnight, was lmao.
10:25 shinohai I haven't watched it yet :/
10:25 shinohai saw the clips
10:26 mod6 ah, werd.
10:26 mod6 hahah, i wont spoil the choice quotes for anyone.
10:26 shinohai its saved on dvr tho
10:26 shinohai so when i get time to watch
10:27 thestringpuller mod6 is the real life mr. robot
10:27 shinohai something like that. he is involved with fsociety surely
10:28 mod6 lol, except i hate python
10:28 shinohai it's a pain in the ass
10:28 mircea_popescu maybe that's just what you want us to think.
10:29 mod6 thestringpuller: saw your blog post btw yesterday. yeeaaaaaaaah.
10:30 * shinohai curses eulora for consuming his entire day yesterday
10:30 mod6 it's great isn't it?
10:31 shinohai yup
10:31 mircea_popescu lmao
10:31 mircea_popescu shinohai you know once you get half decent at the metagame you don't have to baby it. i spend about 10-20 minutes a day changing bot diapers is all.
10:31 mircea_popescu but of course to get there gotta put some study in to climb teh curve.
10:31 * mircea_popescu looks
10:31 shinohai as I said, the game plays you
10:32 mircea_popescu 443 + 44 flotsam, 120+6 spicy moss ; 112 + 142 boulders, bout a hundred wpl, cr, some dcs, wwb etc. since ~this time yest.
10:33 shinohai danielpbarron would be proud of me going all the way back and dragging table with loot in penance
10:36 mircea_popescu which incidentally... it really makes me chuckle at the predicament of "AAA" studios. so first, they make a broken game (broken here defined as, not-neutral state-evolution-graph) ; because their game is broken, they have to forbid bots - not just in form, but in practice. then if they don't manage to forbid them too efficiently they die everquest/diablo 3 style, inflation. but if they do manage to forbid them, they die like
10:36 mircea_popescu wow / eve / etc : people go through the early game, master it, then can't move on to the logical next phase so they just quit. so now AAA studio is forced to salvage broken game that broke their playerbase through... oh shit, incentives. ie, inflation, ie, "we'll give you free level 60 characters". because guess what, the inflation was actually better than death, and their success at doing what they wanted to do (prevent bots
10:36 mircea_popescu !), inasmuch as they wanted to something stupid, turns out to be contrary to what they... ~actually~ wanted to do.
10:37 mircea_popescu yet somehow this inept cycle of self-effacement does NOT enlighten their stupid heads that yo! what we thought was the problem couldn't have possibly been the problem, seeing how the better we fix it, the worse things get! and then we have to circumvolutedly revert the very fix!
10:38 mircea_popescu not to mention that what we thought is the goal can't possibly be the goal! so how about we stop with the shit and do things right.
10:38 mircea_popescu but oh, no, none of that. thousands of derps all "know", in the sense of being wrong in the same way ; and borges is President of the Argentine Society of Writers.
10:39 diana_coman shinohai> danielpbarron would be proud of me going all the way back and dragging table with loot in penance <- wait, did you do it *manually*?
10:40 shinohai yeah because i forgot the proper way the first time :/
10:40 mircea_popescu lmao
10:40 diana_coman loool, well deserved penance indeed then
10:40 diana_coman :p
10:40 mircea_popescu btw shinohai you wanna dig up a buncha ords for me ? or did you level building already ?
10:40 shinohai i go *all the way back* and thankfully loot is still floating in the air
10:41 shinohai yeah mircea_popescu when i get client fired up we'll chat
10:41 mircea_popescu kk
~ 28 minutes ~
11:10 mircea_popescu shinohai also, you got that bridge bot going right ? iirc that was a mn ecu for you ?
11:10 shinohai not yet, it is too crude to run
11:10 shinohai :(
11:11 shinohai i have been so focused on getting controls to behave lol
11:11 mircea_popescu alrighty.
~ 27 minutes ~
11:39 asciilifeform in other lelz, http://www.theonion.com/article/disillusioned-hacker-starting-to-feel-like-he-has--53953
~ 52 minutes ~
12:31 mircea_popescu lol
12:31 mircea_popescu good thing they're not using paper ballots.
12:32 asciilifeform yeah they used to have to pay folks to get on buses and stuff the boxez
12:32 asciilifeform whereas now - not.
12:32 mircea_popescu yeah, but in soviet russia.
12:45 asciilifeform https://archive.is/JNekz << in yet other lulz.
12:45 asciilifeform 'The long-planned participatory (shall we say) sculpture by the Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan — a fully functional, solid 18-karat-gold copy of a Kohler toilet, an over-the-top apotheosis of wealth — was installed in the humble restroom on the fifth-floor ramp of the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum late last week and will be open for business to anyone with the urge on Friday...'
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12:46 asciilifeform coming next, surely, public atomic dirigible rides!1111
12:53 trinque the piece is called "America"
12:53 * trinque lols
13:06 asciilifeform http://www.mignews.info/dlazhnik-razrushi-ipotekiranata-si-kashta-i-ya-stovari-pred-bankata << moar lelz. fella owed mortgage on house, but not land. foreclosed, so returned house to bank. without land. using excavator.
13:07 asciilifeform (bulgaria, if it isn't obvious)
~ 39 minutes ~
13:46 mircea_popescu i dunno man... at ~1k usd / cc... a toilet's pretty bulky.
13:47 asciilifeform eh betcha it's gilged.
13:47 mircea_popescu says solid 18k
13:48 asciilifeform says buncha things.
13:48 mircea_popescu anyway, yes, gold is very dense. a coffee mug full of gold is easily 2x the yearly income of the mug's owner
13:48 ben_vulpes in other strange, my trb node is currently sitting on 9756 VIRT, and has an entire core completely pegged.
13:48 mircea_popescu mb ?!
13:49 ben_vulpes aha
13:49 asciilifeform we all have materials table on the wall, just as mircea_popescu
13:49 mircea_popescu not all, alfie.
13:49 peterl some of us have it in our head instead of on wall
13:49 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes can you looksee what's allocated ?
13:51 ben_vulpes lessee here
13:52 mircea_popescu and in other "i'm just dumping links for bots to archive" news, http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-09-16.log.html#t17:44:03
13:53 ben_vulpes http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/t88xc/?raw=true << liek dis?
13:53 peterl maybe someday I write script to dig through logs and archive shit
13:53 mircea_popescu 00007fd9b506c000 5972292K rwx-- [ anon ] << what's in there ?
13:53 mircea_popescu the rest is ~more or less normal.
13:54 ben_vulpes how do i look inside that?
13:54 ben_vulpes this is a dark and unfamiliar corner of linux to me
13:55 mircea_popescu well, gdb should let you see it. the prefix there is the address
13:55 mircea_popescu maybe look in /prof
13:55 mircea_popescu /proc*
13:56 ben_vulpes kk
13:56 mircea_popescu generally you should be able to open /proc/pid/mem as a normal unix file.
13:56 * ben_vulpes back in 5, disembarking train
13:58 asciilifeform ben_vulpes et al: what happened to actually instrumenting with valgrind etc, as i described in agonizing detail on the ml last year ? the linux footprint thing is not very useful.
14:02 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i'd have to restart the process to get data out of valgrind, right?
14:03 asciilifeform yes
14:03 asciilifeform there was another instrumenter that compiled in, and worked in real time, see june/july '15 ml
14:04 mircea_popescu ^
14:05 ben_vulpes well compiled in, i still hafta restart the process
14:05 asciilifeform no
14:05 ben_vulpes curious to see what's in there while it's live.
14:05 asciilifeform that was whole point !
14:05 ben_vulpes o.O
14:05 asciilifeform that you don't have to
14:06 ben_vulpes what means "compiled in" then?!
14:06 ben_vulpes nevermind.
14:07 ben_vulpes http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html << not this?
14:08 asciilifeform nope.
14:09 trinque lol
14:09 trinque ben_vulpes: go back in time and compile in the instrumenter before this happened!
14:10 asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-May/000095.html
14:11 ben_vulpes ah
14:14 ben_vulpes yaok i'll accept that the engine room needs a new dial.
14:18 mircea_popescu in the sad story of exactly this, the first time i ran new eulora client, it crashed. i've bee nrunning it in gdb ever since, has not crashed since. 5 weeks!
14:18 mircea_popescu i'll give up and run it plain one day, at which point...
14:25 ben_vulpes memory use aside, is the 100% cpu use symptomatic of blackholing, asciilifeform ?
14:27 asciilifeform no, it is symptomatic of block verifying
14:27 asciilifeform if it's grinding a block, it'll peg at 100.
14:27 asciilifeform (and though the algo is infinitely parallelizable, it has 0 parallelism as implemented by the idiot)
14:28 ben_vulpes right, k. and when it's verifying a block, does it typically go entirely unresponsive to rpc commands?
14:28 asciilifeform absolutely.
14:28 ben_vulpes mhhhhm.
14:29 ben_vulpes this *should* be a transient affair though wtf
14:30 asciilifeform not if you're 7 yrs out of sync
14:31 asciilifeform you gotta understand the sheer imbecility of the thing
14:31 ben_vulpes ya well that is categorically not the case for this node.
14:31 asciilifeform it is barely fathomable.
14:31 ben_vulpes until ~last night the thing was tracking the chain tip like a bloodhound.
14:31 asciilifeform what's the log look like ?
14:33 ben_vulpes http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/a4tis/?raw=true
14:34 ben_vulpes oh that's lulzeriffic, the processblock log lines don't get timestamped?
14:35 ben_vulpes log is 72619592 lines long, last accepted block was at 72529974
14:37 * ben_vulpes off, will resume later
14:46 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes the native logging of prb are fascinatingly bad.
14:46 mircea_popescu kinda why ~nobody actually uses it as is
~ 16 minutes ~
15:02 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-tradebot-spec/ << Trilema - Eulora tradebot spec
15:07 phf `card.freenode.net * a111 "Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable"` well then...
15:08 mircea_popescu phf gotta ghost it
15:08 mircea_popescu and in other news, hot damn it's great watching girls work out.
15:09 phf +1
15:09 mircea_popescu best enjoyed with a sammich, after you're done watching girls do dishes.
15:09 mod6 nice.
15:09 mircea_popescu i think it shall be called a watcharium from now on. wtf "harem" bs.
15:09 mircea_popescu panopticunt.
15:10 asciilifeform i thought it was a do-arium, while owner's cock works
15:10 asciilifeform and watcharium when he's old
15:10 mircea_popescu well alf... i guess i'm old.
15:10 asciilifeform ain't nothing wrong with being old, other than the obvious minuses
15:10 mircea_popescu "eh... we fucked yesterday."
15:10 mod6 you can't fuck 100% of the time. there's some division there. like 70% watch, 30% fuck.
15:11 mircea_popescu mod6 yes, but that's per girl ;/
15:11 mod6 :D
15:11 mod6 hey, some division, some multipication.
15:12 mircea_popescu word.
15:14 phf right, but apparently normally this comes in as a err_nicknameinuse message, now it's err_unavailableresources
15:15 phf there are more things in heaven and earth, horatio
15:18 phf by the end of this exercise we're going to all have the total sum of all the hacks that are in eggdrop, indepedently rediscovered
15:18 * trinque sighs
15:18 mircea_popescu windows style error handling is, "whatever error we recieve reboot"
15:19 trinque I do that, sadly.
15:19 trinque but doesn't help if there are myriad cases one must use ghost
15:19 trinque could I suppose just aggressively ghost each time
15:19 mircea_popescu in other news, cockroaches are more robust than women ; especially in radiation contaminated areals.
15:19 mircea_popescu so fuck cockroaches.
15:20 phf usg science suggests solution, make cockroach sized penises
15:21 mircea_popescu "how do you fuck a chicken ?" "wrap it in duct tape" "and how do you fuck a cockroach ?" "wrap it in duct tape and fuck it with usg scientific penis."
15:21 mod6 heheh
15:27 phf -NickServ- a111 is not online.
15:28 phf //nick a111
15:28 phf *** Nickname a111 is temporarily unavailable, trying a111`
15:40 phf (i'm using this "fuck you phf, love freenode" to upgrade the btcbase instance, so site is down for half hour or so)
15:45 asciilifeform in other 'news', heathen 'rng design' folk write what aaaaaalmost looked like good intro to subj, https://forum.stanford.edu/events/2016/slides/iot/Ben.pdf , until the mindfuck 'Want to keep generating entropy bits without needing to keep powering the HWRNG Use HWRNG to seed a PRNG (AES counter mode)...'
15:46 pete_dushenski http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#629 << 'what are the odds that this human's left tit is a hairy enough to shade the sahara?'
15:46 scriba Logged on 2016-09-15: [23:12:10] * mircea_popescu was reading pete d, ended up on "Knowing that on average humans have one testicle and one ovary, what are the odds that this human's left ovary is a testicle ?"
15:46 phf site's up, bot's up, a111 nick is still unobtainable
15:47 mircea_popescu ACTION just found out that phillips and torx heads respectively aren't mere "let's arbitrarily change standards to try and extract spurious rents via alleged intellectual property" ; but in fact have proper reasons to exist. a) phillips head is self-centering ; which is to say driver does not slip out of screw being driven. this was major advantage in early automotive work. torx does not cam out ; which was major advantage in
15:47 pete_dushenski 'I was dead-set on finding a house with a garbage disposal, or "garburator" as our sorry ("Sorry!") neighbors to the North call them,' << l0l! love the souble dorry. also, i've never lived in a house or condo with a garburator and may never.
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15:48 mircea_popescu is "garburator" supposed to be "garbage carburator" ? because that may be the lamest corporate attempt at humour to date.
15:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: folk name
15:48 mircea_popescu that doesn't make it right.
15:48 pete_dushenski 'but eventually relented and traded the garburator for a hood over the stove,' << current place... doesn't have range hood. smoky ? smelly ? open the windows and patio doors and get a cross-breeze going
15:48 asciilifeform and they're a household thing, made by 1,001 chinese whatevers.
15:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: we definitely had thread re: 'torx'
15:50 mircea_popescu !~search torx
15:50 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: There were no matching configuration variables.
15:50 mircea_popescu !#search torx
15:50 mircea_popescu !#s torx
15:50 mircea_popescu ah it's not voiced hm.
15:51 mircea_popescu !!up a112
15:51 deedbot a112 voiced for 30 minutes.
15:51 mircea_popescu !#s torx
15:51 a112 13 results for "torx", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=torx
15:51 asciilifeform well yes but he's off
15:51 phf in other news apparently the command is "nickserv release"
15:51 mircea_popescu release only works half the time.
15:51 mircea_popescu also site is timing out
15:52 phf yeah, i decided to touch the server and now everything's broken
15:52 asciilifeform anyway the description given is off, phillips screw was used precisely because it slips when torqued up. 'torx' and similar - do not. they were introduced when dynamometer (torque wrench) became standard at conveyor.
15:53 asciilifeform and the 'poor man's dynamometer' of phillips screw - no longer essential
15:53 mircea_popescu aha.
15:53 mircea_popescu phillips doesn't slip ; torx doesn't cam out
15:53 phf in case anyone thinks that commercial lisp vendors are any good, i'm getting completely random failed to allocate errors on lispworks
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15:53 mircea_popescu we didn't really think so, no.
15:54 asciilifeform phf: you went straight there from cmucl ?
15:54 asciilifeform and incidentally if it's the crippleware version it will fail to allocate when you reach the cripplement limit
15:55 phf nah, professional, i have a license from elsewhere, that i'm .. evaluating
15:55 mircea_popescu how much is it ?
15:56 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: i always thought 'garburator' was more of a garbage-purolator : a machine for mailing garbage as far away as possible
15:56 phf a professional single os/cpu version is $1300
15:56 mircea_popescu oh, so you mean enough to pay for a dedicated server running lamp for a whole year ?
15:58 phf there was this idea in the naggum emails that all the problems go away once you stop being cheap and pay for a real lisp. maybe that was the case in 2001 when he wrote it, but in practice it turns out to not be so
15:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it costs about two or three days of the programmer.
15:58 mircea_popescu i do not believe it was the case 15 years ago either.
15:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: based on what ? magic 8ball ?
15:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dun see anyone here (other than me, but w/e) ever spend time debugging apache etc.
15:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform based on exactly this type of interaction with exactly this type of fellow, back then.
15:59 pete_dushenski http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#334 << looks like contravex uses the same footnote plugin as trilema, so you should be good to go
15:59 scriba Logged on 2016-09-15: [17:37:23] <ben_vulpes> mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo, pete_dushenski: recommendations for wp footnote plugin? footnotes-in-footnotes would be a grand feature if any can do that and it's not a mp-wp-footnotes custom job
15:59 * asciilifeform tried allegro and lispworks in '09, was not esp. happy.
16:00 mircea_popescu 09 is not 01.
16:00 asciilifeform phf: is there a reason you're allergic to sbcl and will try even payware before it ?
16:00 phf yes, it's in logs
16:01 asciilifeform the interpreter ?
16:01 asciilifeform it is only needed for debug... why not deploy on a lisp that actually WORKS?
16:02 pete_dushenski 'EVERYTHING MUST GO IN THE DISHWASHER AND THAT MUST BE FINE.' << chez moi i throw everything in the dishwasher, which i then run when full and empty thereafter, while the girl does this 'wash by hand as you go and air dry on the rack' thing for reasons i don't fully comprehend.
16:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform iirc you deployed the only thing known on python which worked ; and serve via apache ?
16:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: worse
16:04 asciilifeform http server thing in python, with apache for statics (pictures etc)
16:04 mircea_popescu is what i said neh ?
16:04 asciilifeform yes but mircea_popescu's picture was charitable.
16:04 phf asciilifeform: well, fwiw i used sbcl for years and was running in increasingly larger number of problems. just small annoyances. when i tried interacting with sbcl "community" it turned out to be the usual suspects, google employees, gender pronounced. i have the same antipathy to sbcl as you to llvm
16:04 trinque sbcl has been taken over from the original guy
16:05 asciilifeform phf: i can easily believe this. fwiw my copy is ancient.
16:05 asciilifeform perhaps i ought to nail it to a board and post.
16:05 mircea_popescu not to necessarily discourage the eager from using lisp or anything else. by all means. but certainly to discourage an unrealistic view of performance etc.
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16:05 phf sbcl last time i checked was entirely developed by google
16:05 trinque one of them at least is a complete idiot who told me in #sbcl that gpg signing was pointless because "somebody could just pay me to sign something malicious"
16:05 asciilifeform l0l!!
16:05 mircea_popescu trinque please with name.
16:05 asciilifeform ^
16:05 * trinque looks
16:06 mircea_popescu this is how they think, you know ? and while not conscious, because celenterates, nevertheless effectual. because a large collection of betas will naturally fall on solutions to the problems of betas.
16:06 mircea_popescu much like bacteria manage.
16:06 phf anyway, first version of btcbase was written in python, and ran for a year as a proxy to znc with a synchronizer to kako. basically exactly what Framedragger has right now
16:07 phf i'm pretty sure i've not had to touch it once
16:07 mircea_popescu i only have to go in there when someone "upgrades" something.
16:07 mircea_popescu fucking idiot kids.
16:08 asciilifeform phf: ever try ccl ?
16:09 phf but the rewrite happened for two reasons, one is that i wanted to do interesting analysis on entire corpus (which is something python will strugle with) and that tmsr canon called for technology ownership. cmucl seems like a reasonable stack to own, considering that it's abandonware. fwiw it benchmarks faster than either sbcl (by fraction) or lispworks (by a huge margin, wtf now) on doing bit twiddling like the search that we do
16:09 mircea_popescu well yeah, but you gotta own it.
16:09 asciilifeform phf: http://ccl.clozure.com
16:09 mircea_popescu you know, 5yo me came home one day, asked mom if "fried cow is good to eat".
16:10 mircea_popescu because 5yo me had observed some cows, and figured... what the hell!
16:10 phf :>
16:11 phf i've used cmucl in the past, like 10 years ago, and still have most of my lisp code for it/in it. than i switched to ccl and deployed few things commercially with it. the only lisp i've never explicitly worked with except toying around is sbcl
16:13 trinque mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/k21rs/?raw=true << guy's very active >> https://sourceforge.net/u/stassats/profile/
16:14 mircea_popescu maybe somebody's paying him!
16:15 trinque nameless bastards, afraid of signing their works.
16:15 mircea_popescu BUT THE SIXTH CASTLE STAYED UP!
16:15 trinque ahaha
16:15 phf ffs
16:15 phf that's it, i'm retiring. to elba
16:16 mircea_popescu !~google baterii elba
16:16 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: ELBA , de la sursa bateriilor pentru lanterne în comunism la corpuri ...: <http://www.mediafax.ro/social/elba-de-la-sursa-bateriilor-pentru-lanterne-in-comunism-la-corpuri-de-iluminat-si-faruri-pentru-masini-fabrica-salvata-de-venirea-renault-la-dacia-galerie-foto-10706053>; Baterii elba - Cumpara cu incredere de pe Okazii.ro.: <https://www.okazii.ro/cautare/baterii%2Belba.html>; Amintiri din Epoca de (1 more message)
16:16 phf from now on i'm working on mp-wp, full time, a shell of a man. you can point newcomers at an old shambling figure, "that's phf. he's tending our flower bed"
16:17 mircea_popescu this cult is turning into a cocoa of a monastery.
16:18 trinque phf: offer stands for me to be your court jew of sbcl-ing
16:20 mircea_popescu anyway, more productively : an actually working lisp environment isn't a bad idea ; but premature today imo.
16:21 mircea_popescu the way to owning technologies is ; by picking technologies to own that are small enough on the way there. much like the way to eat a whale is by eating earthworms while frogsized.
16:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is sorta why i came upon the notion of resurrecting 'tinyscheme'
16:22 asciilifeform but it is quite certainly a frog
16:22 mircea_popescu this method seems wasteful ; from experience it actually delivers. the more direct, intuitive approach not only always fails, but predictably so, which is why it's such a great ally of statu quo.
16:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha.
16:22 asciilifeform the thing is, it's a frog, but a standardized frog.
16:23 asciilifeform as in, there is a very pedantic test suite.
16:23 phf i probably wrote most code for tbr/shiva, and it was an exercise in rewriting common lisp from scratch
16:23 asciilifeform yes i recall this.
16:23 asciilifeform phf did some very fine work with it.
16:23 asciilifeform and any work with scheme will inevitably have the flavour of 'recreating common lisp from scratch.'
16:23 mircea_popescu "most lisps today are buggy half working implementations" or how did the quote go.
16:24 asciilifeform 'most large programs'
16:24 mircea_popescu not that part.
16:24 mircea_popescu ok, this is almost as fun to watch as girls doing butt lifts.
16:25 mircea_popescu !~google irc bot in php
16:25 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: WildPHP: A PHP IRC Bot: <https://wildphp.com/>; Simple PHP IRC Bot Script - A PHP IRC Bot - WildPHP: <https://wildphp.com/simple-irc-bot>; Top Tutorials - A PHP IRC Bot - WildPHP: <https://wildphp.com/tutorials>
16:29 asciilifeform '2016-08-31 19:52:29 Xof the copy of my key that was on sourceforge had an error in it ever since it was uploaded'
16:29 asciilifeform '2016-08-31 19:52:31 stassats frankly, i don't believe in the web of trust, you can only know who uploaded
16:29 asciilifeform 2016-08-31 19:52:36 stassats not their intentions'
16:29 asciilifeform wat.
16:30 trinque best lisp compiler is in the hands of imbeciles, is wat.
16:31 asciilifeform trinque: we have the pill. pick a time, t. and all sbcl work after t, is dead to us...
16:31 asciilifeform the trb method.
16:32 trinque https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/sbcl-devel/7A7TmBne6xw/fxxgM2xIdEMJ
16:34 trinque ^ announcement of Newman's resignation from the project
~ 17 minutes ~
16:51 phf !#s dog
16:51 a111 990 results for "dog", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dog
16:52 phf <**> Out of memory: Failed to allocate object of size 40000008 [10/10]
16:57 mircea_popescu !#s as
16:57 a111 37308 results for "as", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=as
16:57 mircea_popescu pretty snappy.
16:57 phf right, but the url above timeouts
17:11 mircea_popescu and in other tooling news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/1f3675ccd63cc4eedc95167f1685315a/tumblr_o4kjg3ie4S1ui7jcmo1_400.gif
17:11 phf Error: Segmentation violation(11) [code 0] at 42405E119C {outside Lisp heap}
17:11 phf etc.
17:11 phf fuck it, i'm going to port it to sbcl
17:11 mircea_popescu it requires porting ?
17:17 phf well, cmucl version was very cmucl specific, when i ported it to lispworks i made it portable, but i'm sure there are some small things left
17:18 mircea_popescu well, gl with sbcl.
17:19 mircea_popescu http://67.media.tumblr.com/2328e4c72bbec3ad89158518ae1c8821/tumblr_nv7u2ccKU11tlnr6jo1_400.gif << summer dresses rule.
17:20 * shinohai was just enjoying such a view
17:29 mircea_popescu and in counterpoint news, http://hajiwonposts.tumblr.com/post/146939320580
17:29 asciilifeform l0l!
17:29 asciilifeform i think we had this thread
17:29 mircea_popescu some of the weirdest shit there. including somebody who thought using a common glass salad bowl as a receiver is a good idea, somehow ; lotta casual "your cunt's bare, why not be naked" stuff, and etc
17:31 asciilifeform eh wait, sc4m! some of these chix dun look pregnant at all
17:31 asciilifeform what even is that object they're 'birthing'
17:31 mircea_popescu ikr ?
17:31 asciilifeform it looks quite similar in various pics
17:31 mircea_popescu a... puppy ?
17:31 asciilifeform ... raw chicken ?
17:32 ben_vulpes ...placenta?
17:32 mircea_popescu anyway. hard to tell from a pic, there's considerable variance in abdominal swelling.
17:33 asciilifeform e.g., http://hajiwonposts.tumblr.com/post/148141851075/good?is_related_post=1
17:40 mircea_popescu and in other things that could beenfit from a blockchain trustless digital autonomous crypto anarcho syndicalist commune : https://www.emlalock.com/
17:40 mircea_popescu hopefully someone makes a coin for that.
17:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in re earlier, gotta wonder re the existence of... abortion pr0n
17:43 asciilifeform ( if 1, why not the other )
17:43 mircea_popescu i imagine it must.
17:43 mircea_popescu gore is a thing ; since before rotten.com
17:43 asciilifeform and didn't mircea_popescu tells us about some chick who had one every other month or the like
17:43 mircea_popescu that was before digicams.
17:44 asciilifeform and not just the 'gore', but complete kit, with chix 'butterflying' themselves while they spray it out, etc
17:45 mircea_popescu wait, what ?1
17:45 mircea_popescu self-administered abortions ?
17:45 asciilifeform not necessarily
17:46 asciilifeform but 'medical fetish' is a not wholly unknown thing
17:46 asciilifeform and theoretically cunt engine can work just as well on 'out' stroke as 'in', eh?
17:46 mircea_popescu wait, what ?!
17:47 asciilifeform well, theoretically, 'reverse penetration'
17:47 mircea_popescu i dun follow ?
17:48 asciilifeform they're being fucked, from reverse end
17:48 mircea_popescu through 30m of intestine ?
17:48 asciilifeform neh, the other tract
18:01 thestringpuller lololol Spells of Genesis is so ADHD
18:03 pete_dushenski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuRf6r0LuL8 << speaking of powerful drones, check out this octocopter used for 'dronesurfing'
18:03 pete_dushenski model 'Freefly ALTA 8'
18:05 mircea_popescu incidentally, the retiarius' weapons may well make a comeback. drone should be able to drop weighted net on, say, schoolgirl, neh ?
18:06 pete_dushenski yup. retariopter
18:11 pete_dushenski http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-nsa-has-files-on-a-country-that-doesnt-exist << how dare the nsa have a file on a nonexistent country that isn't tmsr!
18:11 mircea_popescu lmao
18:11 mircea_popescu because tmsr exists ?
18:12 pete_dushenski must be that eh.
18:15 pete_dushenski https://medium.com/personal-growth/10-ways-to-adapt-to-prison-7e1956904409#.adpucwiwj << speaking of new realities, what kind of fuckin soi-dissant 'guide to prison' doesn't include 'stab first, ask questions later' ?
18:16 pete_dushenski 'Don’t gamble or use drugs' ? how goddam lame is that.
18:17 mod6 tmsr even has a cia factbook
18:18 pete_dushenski only if mp's a cia mole.
18:20 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski most people who go to "prison" end up in low and mid security joints.
18:21 mircea_popescu not to mention people who don't ain't reading fucking medium.
18:22 pete_dushenski ~no one who's going anywhere, even prison, reads medium
18:22 pete_dushenski tweets get more views
18:24 mircea_popescu anyway. "don't gamble" is solid advice. gamble works in prison exactly like outside - as taxation. unless you're running the joint, gambling is just another way of looking for a boyfriend.
18:30 thestringpuller "I put on for my country." - Young Stalin
18:30 mircea_popescu in practical terms, if you'll be going to prison for limp dick shit, your best move is to have bitcoin and a wot. the personnel is poorly paid, greatly infiltrated by gold diggers who correctly intuit this is their easiest way to endear themselves to the sort of people who can touch real money, however briefly, and generally very supportive. for as long as you got leverage outside you'll be fine.
18:32 mircea_popescu just as long as you make sure that a) usg can't get at your wealth and b) you left a network behind you're liable to find the prison term more pleasant than life at home./
18:32 mircea_popescu (they also know this ; which is why all the derpy "murder for hire" and assorted nonsense keeps trying to be tacked on)
18:34 mircea_popescu and in other "prison for women" news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/8821c5e865e9249a8dc810fae9938131/tumblr_o8cxlv1tVj1qc2yxpo1_1280.jpg
18:39 mircea_popescu oh incredibly enough, i might have found alf's altatron. http://torturepain.tumblr.com/post/142820473702/queensnake
~ 24 minutes ~
19:04 BingoBoingo https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=member+berries&defid=10244291 << Really, mo one realizes "member berries" is testicles?
19:11 asciilifeform https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/feb/04/method-so-acceptable-dea-cant-even-tell-you-its-na << gut-busting
19:12 mircea_popescu speaking of gutbusting. http://65.media.tumblr.com/65f8b6c2bf6f967f5b2bbb5a47a0a962/tumblr_nzjhscfFlU1u2j8oyo1_1280.jpg
19:15 asciilifeform ^ perhaps ~that~ is the subj of link !!
19:16 mircea_popescu "2011 FBI report finds “broadening U.S. military presence” responsible for rise in terror attacks" << hurr. "today we discovered that if we go attack some people, they'll attack us right back."
19:21 asciilifeform https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/dea-vaughn-index-10335/#file-16280 << lel, tighter lips than nsa on typical day
19:22 asciilifeform (the latter usually shits out pages-denied count)
19:22 mircea_popescu i'm kinda amused at the notion that anyone much gives a shit either way.
19:24 asciilifeform well, on a list of 'the four seeekrit evidences', stoolies, nsatronics , parallel construction, and ????. So what's ???? ... telepathy? magic 8ball?
19:25 asciilifeform http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160916/#441 << and what's this
19:25 asciilifeform et tu scribabrute?!
19:26 asciilifeform what, i mean, is an altatron.
19:28 asciilifeform http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160916/#437 << sounds like a recipe for coke machine, not favours from jailer
19:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160916/#413 <
19:31 mircea_popescu in other news, pop quiz is unanymous : jordan mactaggart was pretty hot.
19:41 adlai from my experience in two situations not dissimilar from low-security gaol, mircea_popescu is correct about the staff
19:42 adlai (idf (including lots of secondhand familiarity with both sides of its military prison system) and 'hospital')
19:45 adlai asciilifeform: my primary gripe with sbcl is that if you do enough network operations in parallel, you hit some race condition, and must restart lisp to continue webbing.
19:45 * adlai is still using sbcl, this only happens every few months of scalping so it's not too hairy a shirt
19:46 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5F8DE075CDBAA6097DE1BF6B4BA32A47399B1098244E6E3C83374BA3024DF981 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 113824259307333733622621589643049751142859902349974419208869344787806302253267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.9.13 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.9.13 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.9.13@mkj.lt>; '
19:55 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5F8DE075CDBAA6097DE1BF6B4BA32A47399B1098244E6E3C83374BA3024DF981 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 113824259307333733622621589643049751142859902349974419208869344787806302253267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.9.13 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.9.13 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.9.13@mkj.lt>; '
19:55 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AB1CC7C0F992FB8527D4B489D4202EB78672F9E0A7F2908A5A3611A00611CDE6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 113824259307333733622621589643049751142859902349974419208869344787806302253267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.11.229 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.11.229 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <sshscan-queries+177.234.11.229@mkj.l
20:07 thestringpuller lol my mom is watching netflix on the wifi
20:18 thestringpuller its funny how the opiate of the masses never really changes. it just finds more concentrated forms. :\ depressing.
20:18 * thestringpuller goes back to reading comic books
20:19 adlai dude wtf, xey're called "grafic novels" now
20:19 thestringpuller >:( I get serial comics. I'm subscribed to 30 something titles per month atm.
20:23 adlai serialization is how most (?) novels were published for ~ever. strikes me as a fairer economic arrangement than premium+royalties but i'm probably just a clueless outsider
20:23 thestringpuller this graphic novel mania the weee-uh-boos set in motion is ridiculous.
20:23 thestringpuller cuz really a monthly series should be like an episode of tv
20:23 * adlai grew up on tintin, probably the reason for his strong inoculation against political correctedness
20:24 adlai the best thing about tintin is that nobody is around to dilute the syrup (and no, the movies don't count)
20:24 thestringpuller adlai: but royalties are where all the sweet money is in comics! if a comic, does really well, the license holders get a cut of pretty much everything spawned from the franchise.
20:25 adlai call me when the kids are playing Spiderman Go
20:28 thestringpuller LOL. 4 srs tho. spider-man is a pretty good example. why do you think sony sunk money into a 2nd spiderman trilogy (which became a disaster)? they wanted to keep the movie rights.
20:38 mircea_popescu adlai : tell you what, put whatever does the equivalent of php up, hit it with 10loads/second for half hour and see how hairy a shirt it is.
20:40 adlai mircea_popescu: sbcl dies on too many (for all i know, just two, in the precisely bad timing) ~outgoing~ queries
20:42 mircea_popescu does talk-to-db count as outgoing ?
20:46 adlai maybe? i get this from too many talk-to-exchange (and once from too many talk-to-freenode, with handrolled irc code that didn't rate limit...)
20:47 adlai i never got this when dealing with mpex, but mpex moves slowly enough that parallel queries weren't a concern
20:47 adlai a db on another box would probably count, unless "what color are your packets"?
~ 31 minutes ~
21:19 ben_vulpes hours later, bitcoind still pegged
21:20 ben_vulpes 12.82 day uptime. let's try again!
21:20 ben_vulpes heh i wonder if the thing will even listen to shutdown commands.
21:23 mircea_popescu it mostly does, albeit very slowly
21:28 ben_vulpes i'm in no rush, happy to run the hourglass out.
21:28 mircea_popescu large part of it is berkley db being incredibly slow to put itself in a sane state.
21:30 ben_vulpes does this hold when it's not even listening to rpc commands?
21:31 mircea_popescu bdb holds the blockchain and the wallet ; rpc doesn't much enter into it
~ 25 minutes ~
21:56 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=fShutdown
21:58 asciilifeform http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#15 << and holy fuck adlai what sbcl were you using, and for what.
21:58 scriba Logged on 2016-09-17: [00:40:56] <adlai> mircea_popescu: sbcl dies on too many (for all i know, just two, in the precisely bad timing) ~outgoing~ queries
21:58 asciilifeform i had it drive 20kg of stainless steel turning on a dime, for hours on end, real-time, and experienced no such nonsense.
21:59 asciilifeform and it was plugged into a bank of tcp to serial (yes) converters, even.
21:59 asciilifeform adlai: did you ffi out something other than merely the socket handling ?
22:00 asciilifeform or was this post-poettering sbcl
22:00 asciilifeform or wat.
22:01 adlai asciilifeform: i suspect the culprit is the one CL lib of such quality that it has a plus in its name
22:02 adlai either that, or merely the socket handling.
22:03 asciilifeform unless folks ~publish~ the magical bug-inducers, i am inclined to agree with the old iddish proverb
22:03 asciilifeform about the dancer.
22:04 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: if you read the code, you will notice that trb is, at most times of 'very very busy bee', quite unready to react to rpc command because one of the global locks is engaged.
22:04 asciilifeform fwiw i pretty much always kill -9 it.
22:04 asciilifeform if the node dies, i can bake another.
22:04 adlai (format () "~{~A~^ ~}" (mapcar 'funcall '(lisp-implementation-type lisp-implementation-version machine-type))) => "SBCL 1.2.4.debian X86-64"
22:05 asciilifeform it takes, what, all of 10 or so hrs, pumping via a direct link
22:05 adlai first happened ~2 yrs ago, last happened ~2 weeks ago.
22:05 asciilifeform adlai: i dun think i've ever used anything above 1
22:05 adlai magical bug inducer = scalpl running against the usual suspects of shitcoinistan
22:06 asciilifeform sounds like it's just throwing packets
22:06 asciilifeform not even, as in phf's case, calling exotic gpg-via-ffi crapola
22:06 adlai well, it is always throwing ssl packets, so it could also be that (this is the aforementioned plus-sized library)
22:06 asciilifeform ewww does your thing call out to openssl?!
22:07 adlai cl+ssl is ffi to openssl
22:07 asciilifeform ~hlrph~
22:07 asciilifeform vomitronic.
22:08 adlai you have to use ssl with all exchanges (except for one, guess which)
22:09 * adlai misses the days of scalping without competition
22:09 asciilifeform anyway i won't be debugging folks' seeeekrit codez over whispers and winks.
22:09 asciilifeform whether scalpl or mpb.
22:09 adlai a) nobody asked you to debug b) it's not seeeekrit, i "backup" on github
22:09 asciilifeform link?
22:09 adlai https://github.com/adlai/scalpl
22:10 adlai (the most recent bits aren't pushed yet, but theyr'e not relevant to this bug)
22:10 adlai note that this code is written with no brains other than my own in mind
22:12 adlai it's almost "job security"; lets me publish my cake while preventing anybody else from eating it. whether i can eat it too (ie, debug this a decade after writing it) remains to be seen.
22:12 asciilifeform well from adlai's description in earlier thread, it sounds as if 'the time' had already come
22:12 asciilifeform when the thing barfs randomly, and underperforms in unpredictable ways.
22:12 adlai time for... 'ownership' of sbcl?
22:12 adlai or at least, freezing an old version
22:14 * adlai thinks out loud: 'crystallising' might be a better metaphor than 'freezing', since the purpose isn't only to reduce code temperature, but also to remove impurities as they emerge
22:16 adlai fwiw, whenever i fantasized about owning a lisp compiler, the imagined object went one step further than sbcl, and didn't depend on a C compiler for the 'kernel', but rather shat ELF objects (or whatever other format) from lisp
22:17 adlai (SBCL, contrary to popular mythos, is not 'self hosting')
22:17 asciilifeform adlai: i think everybody knows this
22:17 asciilifeform so i have nfi what mythos yer thinking of
22:17 asciilifeform it demands a gcc for pass1
22:18 asciilifeform http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#61 << conspicuously absent are whatever mechanisms used for moving coin between the arenas
22:18 scriba Logged on 2016-09-17: [02:09:58] <adlai> https://github.com/adlai/scalpl
22:18 asciilifeform or is this not a thing yet
22:18 asciilifeform how the hell does it arbitrage ?
22:18 adlai everybody who's paid attention. cue internal-mp: "bipeds who don't pay attention are Not People"
22:19 adlai how the hell would you arbitrage the asset formerly known as S.MPOE, other than across time?
22:20 adlai the fact that usd (and other assorted shitcoins) are traded across multiple exchanges is merely an additional profit vector for future implementation... lone wolf projects lope one leap at a time
22:20 adlai (in case it's unclear, "time-arbitrage" is not a risk-free enterprise)
22:20 asciilifeform well suppose robot finds that btce is falling through the floor
22:20 asciilifeform how does it withdraw the coin, to put elsewhere
22:21 adlai it doesn't.
22:21 asciilifeform or does it simply ring a bell.
22:21 adlai but neither does a lens notice that a cork slice looks like a grid from close up
22:22 trinque wtf is this myth where sbcl is slow
22:22 asciilifeform so the thing isn't really automatic, but semi-?
22:22 adlai well that's a bad analogy, cross-exchange arbitrage is entirely possible programmatically, just not yet implemented
22:22 asciilifeform trinque: nfi where, it is the fastest cl i've personally used, hands-down (hand-massaged certain items in it to beat the shit out of cpp original, even)
22:23 trinque https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2192629
22:23 asciilifeform read moar shitcombinator.
22:23 trinque links therein...
22:23 trinque https://lbolla.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/sbcl-quicker-than-c/
22:23 adlai "time-arbitrage" (ie, buy-low-sell-high-and-hope-the-noise-continues) is entirely automatic (up to sane/profitable configuration), cross-exchange arbitrage is entirely unsupported. scalpl has no understanding of the fact that different markets on different exchanges might involve the same asset.
22:24 adlai it DOES know that different markets on the same exchange could overlap, so a lower fruit is "triangular arbitrage" (eg, simultaneously trading btcusd, atcusd, and btcatc)
22:25 asciilifeform trinque: the title of the article is retarded.
22:25 asciilifeform is a shoe quicker than a blade of grass ?
22:25 asciilifeform purple quicker than three ?
22:25 adlai trinque: maybe you're confusing the slowness of compilation with that of execution? python is a very slow compiler.
22:26 trinque the guy just added optimization flags to a debian benchmark
22:26 asciilifeform adlai: presumably you are speaking of the older python ?
22:26 trinque you're meant to y'know, click the links in pages
22:26 asciilifeform (the compiler in sbcl)
22:26 trinque adlai: I'm not confusing shit
22:26 adlai asciilifeform: oh they released another one? better call the snake handlers.
22:26 trinque I have shipped plenty of code that runs on sbcl.
22:27 adlai oh there are links in the links, and idiots spreading false myths (as opposed to the other kind)
22:27 asciilifeform ( for n00bz/readers - yes, the compiler of sbcl was in fact called 'python'... quite a bit prior to the scripting language )
22:28 adlai strictly speaking isn't this cmucl's compiler?
22:28 asciilifeform adlai: originally
22:28 asciilifeform http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3244575386963745@naggum.no.html << obligatory bathtub rocket
22:28 trinque the guy whose resignation I linked forked it from cmucl and rewrote it in lisp
22:29 adlai trinque: which link?
22:29 adlai oh that link. william newman.
22:30 * trinque mutters newman
22:30 adlai python was always written in lisp. s/cmu/sb/ consisted of rewriting the bootstrapping logic.
22:31 adlai http://jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~csr21/sbcl-0.0 << worth a read for anybody with even the most passing of interests in archaeology
22:31 * mircea_popescu didn't click on newman link, because meh, google shit. but now since came up again, decided to check it out. went to archive.is - not there.
22:35 mircea_popescu "This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference. Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100."
22:35 mircea_popescu pshh.
22:36 trinque adlai's link is in there, but from jun 2012
22:36 trinque did not get updated
22:40 trinque Therefore, under this system there should be no need to resort to hairy hacking when fundamental internal structures are to be changed, or to "compile it with itself a few times until things settle down". << what the fuck?
22:41 trinque what system compiled itself "until things settle"
22:41 adlai cmucl
22:42 mircea_popescu i dunno, and i can't be arsed to find out. everyone involved sounds exactly like a bunch of whiny fucktards with clitorii.
22:42 asciilifeform the sleep of fits-in-head breeds monsters.
22:43 adlai this is funny: https://www.cons.org/cmucl/cmucl-build/00_README but this is funnier: https://www.cons.org/cmucl/doc/crosscompile.html
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22:43 asciilifeform ## Recompiling CMUCL is not an exact science... ##
↖
22:43 asciilifeform ## [Peter Van Eynde, September 1998] ##
22:43 asciilifeform ^ do we need to read past this ?
22:43 adlai yeah, click the second link
22:44 asciilifeform ahahahaha
22:44 mircea_popescu to counterbalance the oestrogen overload, here's some harm : "Without boasting, I can tell you that, when Volodya struck me across the ear and spat in my face, I really got him, so that he won't forget it. It was only after that that I hit him with his primus and it was evening when I hit him with the iron. So he didn't die straight away by any means. This doesn't prove that I cut his leg off as early as the afternoon. He was
22:44 mircea_popescu still alive then. Whereas Andryusha I killed simply from inertia, and I can't hold myself responsible for that. Why did Andryusha and Yelizaveta Antonovna fall into my hands anyway? They had no business springing out from behind the door. I am being accused of bloodthirstiness; they say I drank blood, but that is not true: I licked up the pools of blood and stains -- it is a man's natural urge to wipe out the traces of even
22:44 mircea_popescu the most trivial of crimes. And also I did not rape Yelizaveta Antonovna. In the first place, she was no longer a virgin; and secondly I was having dealings with a corpse, so she has no cause for complaint. What about the fact that she just happened to have to give birth? Well, I did pull out the infant. The fact that he was not long for this world anyway, well that's really not my fault. I didn't tear his head off; it was hi
22:44 asciilifeform no wonder this thing was shot in the head and left to die in a shallow grave.
22:44 mircea_popescu s thin neck that did that. He was simply not created for this life. It's true that I stomped their dog to a pulp around the floor, but it's really cynical to accuse me of murdering the dog when in the immediate vicinity, it might be said, three human lives had been obliterated. The infant I don't count. Well, all right then, in all this (I can agree with you) it is possible to discern a degree of severity on my part. But to c
22:44 mircea_popescu onsider it a crime that I squatted down and defecated on my victims -- that is really, if you'll excuse me, absurd. Defecation is an urge of nature and consequently can in no sense be criminal. All things considered, I do understand the misgivings of my defence counsel, but all the same I am hoping for a complete acquittal."
22:45 asciilifeform lel didn't oglaf do a special on this one
22:45 mircea_popescu possibly.
22:45 asciilifeform http://oglaf.com/insummary <<
22:46 mircea_popescu aha
22:46 adlai "I was having dealings with a corpse, so she has no cause for complaint." << excellent argument for gutting cmucl rather than sbcl, unless you get off on the screams
22:46 * trinque already pulled up the tinyscheme source, will read as he drinks wine
22:46 asciilifeform adlai: i think all of the gentlemen present 'get off on the screams', yes
22:46 mircea_popescu note also the implied (and ancient) notion that only virgins may be raped.
22:47 asciilifeform trinque: i recommend to pull up mine, rather than the heathen one, but the difference is not large
22:47 trinque alrighty.
22:47 * adlai also suspects that "gutting cmucl" would involve redoing so much of newman's work that it's much lazier to just gut an old version of sbcl
22:47 asciilifeform trinque: also it isn't a given that tinyscheme is necessarily the best starting point for implementing a civilized scheme
22:47 mircea_popescu wtf is this c code to glue lisp compiled lisp together. good god.
22:48 asciilifeform the empty sheet of paper + the standard is a good alternative.
22:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if it runs on a unix, there'll be glue. by the pound.
22:49 mircea_popescu why pretend then. just have a honest interpreter written in c sit down and take your repl.
22:49 trinque clisp
22:49 asciilifeform other thing, trinque, is that interpreters won't be breaking any speed records.
22:49 adlai incidentally, on a slightly related topic: a friend has taken me up on my (foolish, drunken) offer to help teach him programming. i'm tempted to start with a "sheet of paper + mccarthy" approach, since he's yet unspoiled by algol; has anybody tried teaching in this manner?
22:49 asciilifeform adlai: yes.
22:49 asciilifeform it only works in my experience on gurlz
22:49 adlai (the fallback is http://eloquentjavascript.net/ which is written by a lisper and contains numerous inline repls)
22:50 asciilifeform it won't work on someone you aren't fucking, there will not be the necessary patience.
22:50 mircea_popescu or knuth.
22:50 adlai lol
22:50 trinque hm, mircea_popescu has me wanting to read clisp now
22:51 BingoBoingo <adlai> incidentally, on a slightly related topic: a friend has taken me up on my (foolish, drunken) offer to help teach him programming. i'm tempted to start with a "sheet of paper + mccarthy" approach, since he's yet unspoiled by algol; has anybody tried teaching in this manner? << Don't skip to 12 without working the other steps. Only 13 can be skipped to.
22:51 trinque there is an honesty to not doing this bootstrapping madness while a lisp OS is absent
22:51 mircea_popescu trinque a perhaps even workable alternative would be, adalisp.
22:51 asciilifeform adlai: 'little schemer' by sussman. but again i cannot recommend doing this to just 'friend'
22:52 BingoBoingo ^ Hence necessity of 13th step
22:52 mircea_popescu "7) Paranoid folks like to recompile just again, to be sure that the new system has no artifact from the old running Lisp. These instructions also build the very-optional parts like CLX at this stage. If you want to do that, activate the for loop near the end." << i'm not sure paranoid is the word here.
22:52 mircea_popescu seriously, the vague is getting ridiculous. "artefacts" ?
22:52 trinque asciilifeform: thunked a lady with both that and sicp once, and she actually read them
22:52 mircea_popescu why not just build a fucking tool to spot "artefacts"
22:52 mircea_popescu o, wait...
22:53 adlai mircea_popescu: that tool is called "recompile once more, just to be safe"
22:53 mircea_popescu what is this, distillation ?
22:53 mircea_popescu buncha vocational drunks.
22:53 adlai precisely, as opposed to crystallization
22:53 BingoBoingo <trinque> asciilifeform: thunked a lady with both that and sicp once, and she actually read them << This is the difference. The fucking.
22:53 trinque pls moar metaphor, I am not drunk yet
22:53 * trinque pours another glass
22:53 mircea_popescu why the fuck would anyone want to run anything produced in this manner.
22:53 adlai make sure to avoid the methanol!
22:54 adlai because the fractional still hasn't been invented yet
22:54 trinque BingoBoingo: aha, in fact there was a thread where mircea_popescu explained that y'know, you teach the women things
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22:54 trinque and my heathen brain was astonished
22:54 asciilifeform 'When people who can’t think logically design large systems, those systems become incomprehensible. And we start thinking of them as biological systems.' -- from lamport's 'The Future of Computing: Logic or Biology' (2003)
22:55 asciilifeform and mircea_popescu , nobody wants this ! any more than they 'want' ringworm.
22:55 asciilifeform it just drops on'em
22:55 mircea_popescu trinque fancy that, you had to have someone tell you! nature teaches by example, you stick more data into woman each time than you ever did into all machines you ever touched. yet...
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
22:55 asciilifeform for being a bunch of retarded pygmies
22:56 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/02prx/?raw=true << whole lamport thing , as found in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=41, de-pdfulated
22:56 asciilifeform pertinent.
22:56 mircea_popescu ./lisp -core lisp.clcore, one line after they misspelled it as losp.clore is really fucking endearing, too.
22:57 trinque the thing may very well be 10 systemd cycles in, given its age
22:57 mircea_popescu so fucking idiotic, im bailing.
22:57 mircea_popescu how can you lot put up with these idiots ?
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22:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i can't speak for others, but i've never even ~heard~ of any of these folk, nor read their spew, until this year.
↖
22:58 BingoBoingo http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/09/16/george-stephanopoulos-pepe-frog-well-known-symbol-white-supremacist-movement/ << “You had an Instagram post last week that included Pepe the Frog, which is now a well-known symbol of the white supremacist movement,”
22:58 adlai "verification is economically feasible only in a small number of applications???mainly, for fairly small programs that perform lifecritical functions. Verification techniques are being used successfully to help debug programs, at Microsoft and elsewhere" << please, tell me more about these small, lifecriticial, microsoft applications...
22:59 asciilifeform adlai: you do know what happened to lamport, right ?
22:59 mircea_popescu that are lifecritical.
22:59 adlai not without googling, no.
22:59 asciilifeform adlai: he got 'tenured' at one of those prestige farms where usg (via various muppetronics) pays eminent old folk to avoid being dangerous
22:59 asciilifeform in this case, 'microshit research'
23:00 asciilifeform believe or not, even xerox parc still exists. in this mode.
23:00 asciilifeform even bell labs.
23:00 asciilifeform big morgues, where they parked the lamports.
23:00 trinque lamports parked themselves
23:01 asciilifeform heemeyer-style
23:01 asciilifeform ditch dug around'em, now welcome to your 'island' .
23:01 mircea_popescu kinda why old people are not interesting.
23:01 adlai yeah i doubt anybody forced him to sign; i suspect anybody who wasn't sufficiently dangerous for enough decades, eventually gets tired of poor impotence, and starts sucking the cock that slapped them
23:01 asciilifeform though i knew an old dude who picked poverty and hunger over that new 'bell labs.'
23:02 mircea_popescu and did he do anything ?
23:02 asciilifeform went back to old trade he knew from su.
23:02 asciilifeform teaching physics to collegiate imbeciles.
23:03 asciilifeform complete with the obligatory weary dr. brin face.
23:03 mircea_popescu well... so he... saved the usg some bucks, still didn't do anything. hero of soviets, medal.
23:04 mircea_popescu if you're not going to do anything anyway, might as well take the lab.
23:04 adlai asciilifeform & trinque : thank you for the suggestions. i'm meeting the guy tomorrow for his 2nd lession, i'll let him choose
23:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the mouse that got out of your bottle probably did not 'do anything' also.
23:05 asciilifeform just went around, mousin', for rest of his days.
23:05 mircea_popescu kinda why i released it, rather than you know, eating it.
23:05 mircea_popescu adlai except their suggestions were essentially "drop the guy, pick up some chicks"
23:05 adlai mircea_popescu: take which lab? teaching physics doesn't involve ~doing~ lab work, only grading it
23:05 asciilifeform ( lol, i'm not the only one who was ever tempted to eat'em ?!! )
23:05 mircea_popescu i was never tempted to eat them, no.
23:06 mircea_popescu nor were they ever tempted to do anything.
23:06 * mircea_popescu bbl
23:06 adlai fwiw, the last chick i tried to teach lisp, lost patience for lisp ~before~ she lost patience for [my] cock
23:06 asciilifeform adlai: we were discussing a dude who quit bell labs when it turned into lucent and 'well-managed' etc.
23:07 * adlai makes the "stop waiting tables and learn to program" offer to ~all his friends, once he gets drunk enough
23:08 trinque meh, chick I taught lisp said "cool, I know what a computer is now, sorta" and went back to being a chef
23:08 trinque isn't for everyone
23:08 asciilifeform adlai: do you actually think that you are doing them a favour thereby ?
23:09 adlai since none yet have reached the point of not needing to wait tables - insufficient data for meaningful answer.
23:10 asciilifeform i'm sure they will 'thank' adlai when they instead have to program in a salt mine.
23:11 adlai my pitch has always been "look at me, i worked in the salt mine for less than a year and now live off my savings"
23:11 adlai anybody i know well enough to receive the pitch, knows me well enough to know ~why~ i no longer mine
23:13 trinque I have the decency not to goad my friends into joining an industry in a dark age, tyvm
23:13 trinque bad enough I stuck my dick in this crazy
23:13 adlai living off the savings would have more to do with bitcoin if i were less of an idiot, and had bought less at $1k and more at $10; but then i'd be living off the military discharge bonus, and wouldn't have mined to begin with
23:14 adlai eh i try to keep the pitch minimal, and avoid repeating it (unless too drunk to remember the last one). one guy got repeated pitches but that's only because we lived together and he kept remarking on how i "make money by typing"
23:15 adlai i'm not sure the 'dark age' is limited to this industry, it seems pretty global
23:15 trinque that's fair.
23:16 * adlai doesn't know anybody who likes their job enough to work more than they need, with the possible exception of his mom - who teaches yoga.
23:16 trinque yoga chicks always seem happy
23:17 adlai (private lessons. she long ago stopped doing group classes)
23:18 BingoBoingo !~bc stats
23:18 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
23:18 BingoBoingo !~bcstats
23:18 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 430171 | Current Difficulty: 2.2583287217945956E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 431423 | Next Difficulty In: 1252 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 8 hours, 19 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
23:19 adlai Estimated Next Difficulty: 248,537,181,620 (+10.05%) << nice
23:23 adlai btw, just to bury the earlier discussion of scalpl with shameless self-promotion: if anybody feels adventurous and wants to collaborate, speak up (PM is also OK)
23:24 adlai ('collaborate' implies either having money to potentially lose, or fixing my bugs. preferably the former because i do occasionally do the latter)
23:24 trinque if your thing works you should be flush with cash.
23:24 trinque why should I give you any
23:25 asciilifeform ^
23:27 adlai [scalpl] seen from a distance, is a pretty good machine for converting ten thousand dollars into twenty thousand. [no footnote here! it can make money in crashing markets, too] But, given the [minimum trade size] it is profoundly useless as a machine for converting ten dollars into twenty.
23:28 asciilifeform somehow i knew he'd say this.
23:28 asciilifeform maybe heard it befoar.
23:28 BingoBoingo Sell a kidney?
23:28 adlai (with apologies to Dear Stanislav)
23:29 trinque so work and save yourself 10 grand
23:29 trinque with your sweet software job
23:29 asciilifeform that's a ~month of (very threadbare) salt mine, ffs.
23:29 ben_vulpes http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160916/#242 << plausible, sure, but what has actually happened is that a) the chicoms have diddled the phillips female bit such that it cams out at the slightest provocation and than on top of that the zamac used to replace it wears after so much as a single slipped drive and b) torx is a convenient workaround for the shit metals
23:29 scriba Logged on 2016-09-16: [19:47:07] <mircea_popescu> ACTION just found out that phillips and torx heads respectively aren't mere "let's arbitrarily change standards to try and extract spurious rents via alleged intellectual property" ; but in fact have proper reasons to exist. a) phillips head is self-centering ; which is to say driver does not slip out of screw being driven. this was major
23:29 scriba advantage in early automotive work. torx does not cam out ; which was major advantage in
23:30 ben_vulpes i *know* how to sink screws well, and the zinc plated shit for sale is ~unusable even by me.
23:30 trinque Framedragger: yer thing weirds up /me
23:30 ben_vulpes ^^ yeah
23:30 asciilifeform aaaah so ~that~ is what it was.
23:30 trinque yep, it's barfing the raw protocol for it
23:31 ben_vulpes the final nail (screw?) is that even traditionally phillips applications (eg framing) now come with the torx heads.
23:31 ben_vulpes because the soft metal won't drive 3 inches through pine with a phillips any more.
23:31 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: 'abundance for all.' 'progress.'
23:32 * asciilifeform hoards screws, and regrets nothing
23:32 adlai trinque: fwiw, $10k invested in something with a sane risk/reward curve can't net more than ~$100/mo for very long.
23:32 ben_vulpes on the flip side, torx work (for now). i sunk oodles of self-drillers this past weekend without a single slip.
23:32 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: realize, this is invitation for the next round of metal-softening.
23:32 asciilifeform it will continue
23:33 asciilifeform because there is exactly nothing that would prevent it.
23:33 mod6 asciilifeform hoards screws, and regrets nothing << im with ya. they don't make shit like they used to.
23:33 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i hope this is a comment for the log readers
23:33 mod6 i feel a gas-can-rage bubbling up
23:33 asciilifeform eventually there will be separate 'underground' suppliers for ~reasonable building materials, just like you can only get actual food in usa from 'special' suppliers.
23:34 * trinque hums don't fear the reaper
23:34 adlai !~google needs more cowbell
23:34 jhvh1 adlai: need more cowbell on Vimeo: <https://vimeo.com/55624839>; Needs More Cowbell | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/needs-more-cowbell>; Watch More Cowbell From Saturday Night Live - NBC.com: <http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/more-cowbell-with-will-ferrell-on-snl--video--saturday-night-live--nbc/n41046>
23:34 ben_vulpes not necessarily underground so much as unknown by people
23:34 ben_vulpes http://www.mcmaster.com/#wood-screws/=14796fw
23:35 ben_vulpes mcmaster carr is one of the last bastions of sanity in fab supplies.
23:35 ben_vulpes also i
23:35 ben_vulpes don't hate?
23:35 ben_vulpes their website
23:35 ben_vulpes which was almost impossible to type
23:35 trinque speaking of rot, asciilifeform you'll like this
23:36 trinque I went to mount an encrypted openbsd drive on a different (same endian) arch
23:36 trinque commad proposed I provide it a *new* passphrase
23:36 trinque *command
23:36 trinque guess who's reinstalling heirloom gentoo
23:36 * asciilifeform unfamiliar with disk crypto on openbsd
23:37 trinque braindamaged thing uses the same command to init a drive as attach the softraid again next time
23:37 asciilifeform thing prolly can't distinguish between bad-decrypt-because-bad-pw and bad-decrypt-because-author-was-dropped-as-a-child
23:37 asciilifeform this is typical.
23:37 trinque becaues autism dictates you're actually creating the /dev/softraid0
23:37 trinque so then same command
23:38 ben_vulpes ahaha trinque biting off gentoo quest again?
23:38 asciilifeform didn't we have a successful gentoo initiation recently ? who was it
23:38 asciilifeform ... diana_coman ?
23:38 trinque I have a disk image of old gentoo, but hey, why not see how hte kids do it these days
23:38 * ben_vulpes waves at asciilifeform
23:38 trinque it's probably terrible
23:38 asciilifeform she, iirc, used my recipe, even
23:38 ben_vulpes hnm is a gentoo machine
23:38 ben_vulpes ("hateful noise machine")
23:38 trinque I have a shell script that shits out the gentoo I like
23:40 adlai "That all happened twenty years ago. In retrospect, thinking of programs as automobiles wasn???t so bad. Automobiles are pretty simple. If their car stops working, people expect any good mechanic to be able to figure out why and fix the problem" << Welcome to the 21st Century, where the computers still don't work but now they're in everything!
23:40 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> eventually there will be separate 'underground' suppliers for ~reasonable building materials, just like you can only get actual food in usa from 'special' suppliers. << At the moment they sit on the shelf next to unreasonable building materials with smallest difference in price tag.
23:41 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: in some cases, aha
23:41 BingoBoingo Price of insane material usually within 50% of sane materials
23:42 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: The sane hand tools though are normally seperated from insane tools and spread out by department while insane tools are all gathered in same pile.
23:46 ben_vulpes https://smile.amazon.com/Stanley-85-610-10-Inch-MaxGrip-Adjustable/dp/B00009OYGZ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472488491&sr=8-3&keywords=vice+wrench << related
23:46 adlai lamport's DnD example is perfectly logical: (apply #'<folder> file) -> "label this file as belonging to that folder", (apply #'<folder>) -> "show me what you got"
23:47 adlai files don't actually move!
23:50 BingoBoingo From herr vulpes link: "This is like a cross between a vice-grip and a crescent wrench. This is great for bath/kitchen plumbing when you need to remove stubborn fixtures and do not want to embed the channel lock/pipe wrench teeth into the chrome fixture and leave rough teeth marks on the smooth surface. The wrench locks down without marring the polished finish and it will not fall off if your hands are slippery wet. I also would like to
23:50 BingoBoingo see this tool in a 12" version. "
23:52 BingoBoingo which is exactly wrong. This a job for pipe wrench and cloth, or in the case of sinks a basin wrench which works on the UNDERSIDE!
23:52 ben_vulpes fucking perverse
23:54 BingoBoingo Real pliers are found in electrical department where fake pliers still abound. Real wrenches are found in plumbing, or for automotive applications from the vendor who operates out of prominently branded boxtruck.
23:54 * adlai will read the lamport piece to the friend as a patience test, before suggesting sicp / little schemer
23:54 mod6 <+asciilifeform> ... diana_coman ? << yeah, heard it went fairly smooth.
23:55 adlai if he asks to read it himself rather than sit through 10min of my silky smooth... failure
23:55 BingoBoingo Real saw comes from antique dealer or garage sale
23:58 BingoBoingo proper levels are found in flooring
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