Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-09-01 | 2016-09-03 → ↓
00:00 BingoBoingo Tis the way of the hamplanet
00:02 mircea_popescu and to wash BingoBoingo 's heresies down, http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llcw0251Xc1qbznsao1_r1_1280.jpg
00:08 boolcrap what kind of man shaves their balls
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00:10 mircea_popescu the kind that is sick of trying to wash saliva out of tufty hairs
00:10 boolcrap easy solution
00:10 boolcrap dont get blowjobs
00:10 boolcrap or just find the girl that kind of only licks the tip
00:10 mircea_popescu what kind of a man doesn't get blowjobs ?
00:10 boolcrap good question
00:10 boolcrap i cannot answer but im sure they exist
~ 15 minutes ~
00:26 BingoBoingo $up boolcrap
00:26 deedbot boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
00:32 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/09/musk-rocket-goes-boom-destroying-zuckerberg-satellite/ << Qntra - Musk Rocket Goes Boom Destroying Zuckerberg Satellite
↖
~ 32 minutes ~
01:05 BingoBoingo $up boolcrap
01:05 deedbot boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 7 hours 18 minutes ~
08:23 PeterL obnoxious thing about winblows #67542: using \ as a directory separator rather than / like other OSen. bleh.
08:24 shinohai It's how you separate the wheat from the chaff.
~ 28 minutes ~
08:52 mircea_popescu lol
08:55 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo the physics is SO unfair!
08:55 mircea_popescu doesn't it know these people have note from bahamas ?!?!?!
08:55 mircea_popescu even asange said this should happen to the russians! not to them! scandalous.
09:08 BingoBoingo totally
09:10 mircea_popescu aaand qntra shares added.
09:10 BingoBoingo ty
09:11 mircea_popescu nono, my pleasure
09:12 BingoBoingo If only shinohai's "ty" bot was here
09:13 shinohai heh
09:13 mircea_popescu lol
09:15 shinohai you are welcome to take over maintenance BingoBoingo, I bought it a dedi shell and everything.
09:16 BingoBoingo Nah, I don't speak robot.
09:16 BingoBoingo At least not the language of their insides.
09:18 BingoBoingo brb
09:19 mircea_popescu lol shinohai will instruct noobs. how to play eulora ; how to run bot ; how to fuck camhos ; and other thangs.
09:19 mircea_popescu the reason he's meeting venezuelan friend isn't what you think, but - they'll both go meet the girl, take her back to hotel, then shinohai's gonna be "alright bro, now take your pants off. not those pants, these pants. yes off. here's a webpage with screenshots. ok, now..."
09:20 BingoBoingo $b 2
09:20 shinohai I don't give camho fucking lessons, if one cannot figure the best way to do that on your own then I imagine there is little hope left in the world for you.
09:20 mircea_popescu dude you kidding ? fucking is complicated.
09:21 shinohai Sure it ir, but you don't have to be a graduate of Don Juan university to do it either.
09:21 mircea_popescu for one thing, usg hasn't yet liberated female pelvis. current version still has confusing # of holes.
09:21 mircea_popescu but i hear they're making an upgrade marked mandatory for everyone. called persistent cloaca.
09:23 mircea_popescu (look it up, bout 50 ppm or such as it is)
09:23 * shinohai searches trilema for an `Art of Fucking` piece.
09:23 mircea_popescu there's some periphrastic work but afaik i've not tackled this monster as of yet.
09:26 BingoBoingo Well, shinohai's about to have a really disappointed Venezualan on his hands if mp doesn't
09:26 BingoBoingo brb 4real nao
09:27 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-august-2016-statement/ << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) August 2016 Statement
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
10:36 thestringpuller doesn't shinohai have lady already?
10:37 shinohai Nope thestringpuller have been single for several months now
10:41 thestringpuller oh so no excuse not to go to D*C
10:41 thestringpuller :D
10:42 asciilifeform what's that ?
10:55 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://lwn.net/Articles/699047
10:55 asciilifeform 'Outgoing Apache OpenOffice project management committee (PMC) chair Dennis Hamilton has begun the discussion of a possible (note possible at this point) shutdown of the project. "In the case of Apache OpenOffice, needing to disclose security vulnerabilities for which there is no mitigation in an update has become a serious issue. In responses to concerns raised in June, the PMC is currently tasked by the ASF Board to account for thi
10:55 asciilifeform s inability and to provide a remedy. An indicator of the seriousness of the Board's concern is the PMC been requested to report to the Board every month, starting in August, rather than quarterly, the normal case. One option for remedy that must be considered is retirement of the project. The request is for the PMC's consideration among other possible options." '
~ 22 minutes ~
11:17 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7ECDAB4F47DC074FD5DD619E8497611C76099101869F1050F59331ACB3688182 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 145779041854024466543805435305040161032263039552445727478889939629125145055920877942711960663495543281995643871739066589514344423826837360474704980190032888801407462352657389669434143403256718707620480595574061505020992885043476125599502375559426045681606348052292104535537217875044255423036410266975082307929 divides RS
11:17 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F8011333E293B9F0A5F9BE238EEE6962F9991F66F3FA36CDC317C0680C02D5AF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 145779041854024466543805435305040161032263039552445727478889939629125145055920877942711960663495543281995643871739066589514344423826837360474704980190032888801407462352657389669434143403256718707620480595574061505020992885043476125599502375559426045681606348052292104535537217875044255423036410266975082307929 divides RS
11:18 asciilifeform ^ Chicago, Illinois, US. 'CLEAR WIRELESS LLC'.
11:18 asciilifeform and Rochester, New York, same.
11:21 mircea_popescu nice thick factorz.
11:21 asciilifeform $ timeout -k 0m 3s nc 96.24.7.172 22
11:21 asciilifeform SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.2
11:21 asciilifeform $ timeout -k 0m 3s nc 66.233.213.117 22
11:21 asciilifeform SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.2
11:21 mircea_popescu aha
11:21 mircea_popescu $s "OpenSSH_5.2"
11:21 a111 4 results for "\"OpenSSH_5.2\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22OpenSSH_5.2%22
11:21 asciilifeform aaaaaaaaand now we have another idiotmodem.
11:21 asciilifeform btw i once bought a 'clear wireless' modem thing.
11:22 asciilifeform sent it back, the claimed coverage area was a fiction.
11:22 asciilifeform (this was some years ago.)
11:22 * mircea_popescu doesn't use wireless.
11:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu sits on fnargl throne, aha, and trails long wire behind him on occasions when he is carried.
11:23 mircea_popescu you all want wireless because you grow cats in the house, admit it.
11:23 mircea_popescu but yes, when i had garden in timisoara i also had a spool of cat5.
11:25 asciilifeform incidentally i suspect the 'cellular' ips are not modems.
11:25 asciilifeform the latter typically do not allow for remote access (this is a major sticking point, they dun like incoming)
11:25 mircea_popescu hm this is a good point huh
11:26 mircea_popescu watch that it's actual towers lmao
11:27 mircea_popescu "phuctor has accidentally uncovered an access gateway for the usg global intercept network"
11:27 jurov Qntra shares distributed.
11:32 shinohai ty jurov and also do you have updated .deb for eulora?
11:34 jurov oh not yet
11:35 shinohai :/ ok
11:35 jurov maybe today, thx for reminder
11:36 shinohai werd
11:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the major point re the Framedragger keyz, is that if going by the usual braindamaged-rng hypothesis, we are uncovering a small % of phuctorables.
11:46 asciilifeform and could potentially blow considerably (say, 100,000x) moar, if we knew the mechanism (e.g. 'marsaglia rng seeded with last 16 bits of time stamp at first boot) which produced them.
11:46 mircea_popescu yes.
11:46 asciilifeform given as what we're seeing is 'birthday paradox.'
11:46 mircea_popescu yes.
11:46 mircea_popescu the correct move here if we had spare engineers would be to run a complete review of open sores crypto material generators, starting with openssh
11:47 mircea_popescu and then apply that to zero field, timestamps, etc.
11:47 mircea_popescu get a "cloud" of likely primes, much in the way "artificial intelligence" works.
11:47 asciilifeform or even to take 1 known pair of key and what-made-it, and work backwards.
11:47 mircea_popescu ie, if paul biggar weren't a total idiot, he'd be here doing this.
11:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's much iffier because as you've seen in the field, the idiots who are idiots once are going to be idiots forever
11:48 mircea_popescu what's that "pirate party" derp again ?
11:48 asciilifeform hasimir ?
11:48 mircea_popescu something like that.
11:48 mircea_popescu NONE of them produced the fucking software. all of them produced various versions of "oh, you owe us things"
11:49 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523076 <<
11:49 a111 Logged on 2016-08-17 16:09 mircea_popescu: $rate hasimir -1 Ill informed idiot.
11:49 mircea_popescu right.
11:49 mircea_popescu somehow the "here is the code i compiled to run to obtain that result" is not obviously the ONLY thing they may do in their situation.
11:49 mircea_popescu meaningless flailing about what "we haven't proven" however, ie, the ONLY thing they may not do in their situation, that they come up with qs.
11:50 asciilifeform eh i wasn't suggesting ~asking~ them.
11:50 mircea_popescu and you can ask / say whatever you want, idiot runs on own code and ain't taking outside input.
11:50 asciilifeform but to take one of the routers discussed in the netcat thread and actually see how it shits out key
11:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform emulating them, same diff.
11:51 mircea_popescu anyway. none of this is a good use of your time atm.
11:51 asciilifeform it could be good use of somebody ~else~
11:51 mircea_popescu hence why "ask them".
11:52 mircea_popescu yes, it could have, at any point during the past year, been a significant way for the derps to contribute ; and very cheap for them.
11:52 mircea_popescu but they are derps because impotent, not because "mp hates them"
~ 1 hours 24 minutes ~
13:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: eh, betcha hanno boeck et al are already nearly done cooking up a 'we've been surveying bad ssh keygen for 111 years' crock of shit
13:18 mircea_popescu $key mihi
13:18 deedbot http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/fa988714-c82c-4fae-b4f6-fe63d184f1a0/
13:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform im sure.
~ 38 minutes ~
13:57 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the monkey house, https://archive.is/0Afgw
13:57 asciilifeform 'Last week, a defense lawyer argued that the FBI drastically improved the performance of a dark web child pornography site in the process of investigating it. On Thursday, the Department of Justice responded, denying those claims.'
13:58 mircea_popescu lol
13:58 mircea_popescu i believe.
14:00 asciilifeform soooo, i suppose ~everyone recalls https://archive.is/L4C3X . and naturally nobody cancelled it : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrWvP7BVMAAFsVC.jpg
14:08 mircea_popescu loller
14:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didja ever notice that ~all of the Framedragger boxes support publickey auth on ssh ?
14:17 mircea_popescu i didn't really dig into it.
14:17 asciilifeform https://archive.is/jJPoN << quite related.
14:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: typically the key used for actually logging in is generated on same box. with same braindamaged rng. hopefully i dun need to draw a picture, it makes sense
14:18 mircea_popescu hey, let the reader benefit, what.
14:21 trinque asciilifeform: people generate their ssh privkey on the box *to which* they're connecting?
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14:21 asciilifeform trinque: current working hypothesis is that ~none of the affected boxes are operated by 'people'
14:21 asciilifeform but instead shipped with a script that generates keys on first boot
14:22 asciilifeform (as typical router/modem/etc.)
14:22 mircea_popescu ^
14:23 trinque I am on a terribly laggy connection, but people there can be understood as "manufacturers"
14:25 trinque all the networking gear I've seen didn't ship with any authorized_keys filled in
14:25 asciilifeform trinque: try a ssh -v ipaddrgoeshere -l root on one of these
14:25 asciilifeform do you still see a 'debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password' ?
14:26 mircea_popescu trinque depends on setup ; sometimes nat people do this. gotta remember we're talking of a tiny fraction of the space here.
14:26 asciilifeform well other working hypothesis is that it is ~not~ tiny fraction, but a tip of the 'birthday theorem' iceberg.
↖
14:27 mircea_popescu yes, the people with shitty opsec are never a tiny fraction of any group ; even if we don't meet them often
14:28 asciilifeform think of it as a geiger that rattled all day long at 1000x the familiar background for the room.
14:28 trinque asciilifeform: yes I know what that means.
14:28 asciilifeform yes, there IS some nonzero probability of it happening 'at random', but chances are that someone was served polonium tea.
14:29 trinque but it does not immediately follow that there are any authorized_keys set or determine where they were generated if so
14:29 asciilifeform and the tube is only seeing a microscopic fraction of the photons.
14:29 asciilifeform trinque: well that was the q. didja try it ?
14:29 mircea_popescu trinque his idea was that it's worth checking if there were ; not necessarily that there are.
14:29 mircea_popescu but at this point it wouldn't be much surprise if there were, honestly.
14:29 trinque ah well no argument I guess.
14:29 trinque people do the strangest things.
14:33 asciilifeform soooo, turns out that the 'publickey' thing is displayed whether or not it is actually enabled.
14:33 asciilifeform so we have 0 useful info re subj.
14:39 mircea_popescu to be clear here : if the keys are generated out of 16 bits of entropy ; and if there are 65537 keys ; then necessarily there will be at least one weak pair, and in practice more than half ; all of which will be cheaply hacked apart by phuctor's method.
14:40 mircea_popescu considering we have millions of keys, and considering the sort of shenanigans we've seen currently, including werner koch's gpg subversion most recently ; it would not be inconceivable at this point if a good chunk - thousands, hundreds of thousands of keys can actually be factored once we figure out which exact 20, 30, whatever bits are actual entropy , and how the nextprime is chosen on the basis of that.
14:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: correct.
14:41 mircea_popescu because if we discover that say "thisfunction is used on 64 bits of input of which the first 44 are known" ; then we run the other 20, add the resulting nextprime etc add those into the 8ball and it's goodnight.
↖
14:41 asciilifeform aha.
14:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform just making it plain for teh log readership.
14:42 asciilifeform it is quite conceivable, given the popping rate, that some large fraction of extant rsa keys have somewhere between 24 and 64 bits of actual entropy.
14:42 mircea_popescu yes.
14:43 asciilifeform in epic spam noose, 'HONR378Q Honors Seminar: Islamic Radicalization Drivers of Youth in the United States and Afghanistan Omar Samad, former Afghanistan Ambassador to France. This is a Global Classroom seminar: Using teleconferencing technology UMD Honors students will be conducting research with their Afghan peers at the American University of Afghanistan in Kabul.' --- then, 24 hrs later,
14:43 asciilifeform 'Yesterday, we announced HONR 378Q, and many of you are interested in the course. Unfortunately, as you may already know, AUAF was attacked by terrorists 10 days ago and they are in the process of recover. So we are unable to offer the course this semester; but we are hopeful that we will be able to offer it in the future.'
14:44 mircea_popescu lol.
14:44 mircea_popescu is this what they call the police arresting the key people of their child porn ring ? "attacked by terrorists" ?
14:44 mircea_popescu no shame anymore.
14:45 asciilifeform when did these folks ever have shame.
14:45 mircea_popescu myeah.
14:52 asciilifeform https://archive.is/3eUpF << see also.
~ 41 minutes ~
15:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://gnupg.org/blog/20160830-web-key-service.html << koch grunts again to push folks to gpg2. this time, by 'obsoleting' sks.
15:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: best part, now 'mailer can do encryption without user interaction' !11111
15:35 mircea_popescu o ya, such feature.
15:35 mircea_popescu anyway. sks has no practical future.
15:35 asciilifeform neither does koch's not-sks.
15:35 asciilifeform ('wks')
15:36 mircea_popescu o he has a replacement ? lol
15:36 asciilifeform that was the whole lul in subj link.
15:37 asciilifeform he is pushing a new, gpg2-only thing.
15:37 asciilifeform unveiled at the 'pgp conference', no less.
15:37 asciilifeform (i can only assume, as this is where he was)
15:38 mircea_popescu the braindamage of faux incompatibility.
15:38 mircea_popescu wtf is "gpg-2"
15:38 mircea_popescu "what color is your rsa key bro"
15:39 asciilifeform the abortion discussed in the recent rng thread.
15:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no i mean, i nthe context of keys. they're still the same damned thing, what "2"
~ 36 minutes ~
16:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: idea was that only gpg2 knows how to talk to the 'wks' crapolade.
16:25 shinohai "An unknown individual using the encrypted privacy tool Tor to hide their tracks accessed an email account on a Clinton family server, the FBI revealed Friday." <<<< bwahahaha
16:26 trinque so NSA is favoring Trump or what?
~ 19 minutes ~
16:46 mircea_popescu $up Rowtan
16:46 deedbot Rowtan voiced for 30 minutes.
16:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so basically they took the windows pill.
17:04 mircea_popescu "And honesty's against all common sense: men must be knaves, 'tis in their own defence. Mankind's dishonest; if you think it fair among known cheats to play upon the square you'll be undone. Nor can weak truth your reputation save: the knaves will all agree to call you knave."
17:11 asciilifeform http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2016-09-02/hanjin-bankruptcy-causes-global-shipping-chaos-retail-fears << moar lelz.
17:12 asciilifeform 'The bankruptcy of the Hanjin shipping line has thrown ports and retailers around the world into confusion, with giant container ships marooned and merchants worrying whether tons of goods will reach their shelves. The South Korean giant filed for bankruptcy protection on Wednesday and stopped accepting new cargo. With its assets being frozen, ships from China to Canada found themselves refused permission to offload or take aboard co
17:12 asciilifeform ntainers because there were no guarantees that tugboat pilots or stevedores would be paid.'
17:20 mircea_popescu aha
17:20 mircea_popescu time to buy your ship if you're serious. this unique circumstance in human history will never repeat.
17:23 asciilifeform lel
17:24 mircea_popescu tis a fact.
17:24 asciilifeform 'folks charging $1000 per container could not afford the diesel. i know great idea! i'll buy one and carry 0 containers, charging $0 !'
17:25 asciilifeform these ships have exactly all of the appeal of driving a ww2 panther tank around town.
17:27 mircea_popescu they float.
17:28 mircea_popescu unlike the kickstarter lolrlov nonsense. they exist, and they float. nobody asks you to go from vancouver to huangzhou.
17:28 asciilifeform what's the mtbf on these things ?
17:28 mircea_popescu for what operational definition ?
17:28 mircea_popescu mean time between hull failures is about a century.
17:29 asciilifeform for 'failure' being 'not repairable outside of dry dock'
17:29 mircea_popescu few are ever repaired.
17:29 asciilifeform that doesn't sound good.
17:29 mircea_popescu too expensive to drydock. cheaper to melt and make new one than "fix".
17:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform most galleons were never repaired also.
17:30 asciilifeform until the day when no new ones are available at any price.
17:30 mircea_popescu if you buy a newish one at a fire sale/bankruptcy proceeding today ; you will die before it dies.
17:30 mircea_popescu how long do you think you got, a century ?
17:31 asciilifeform let's run with this concept. say i buy. where to park it ?
17:31 mircea_popescu you don't park it. you live on it.
17:31 mircea_popescu intl waters.
17:32 asciilifeform and never walk off for supplies, etc
17:32 asciilifeform ?
17:32 mircea_popescu you got a crane or two. get people to bring you supplies by boat.
17:32 asciilifeform i suppose when you're mircea_popescu, you can just moore your dirigible to it.
17:32 mircea_popescu if you buy enough walmart will do anything.
17:32 asciilifeform *moor
17:32 mircea_popescu hey, i had them deliver 2 tons of water by hand ; the whole purchase was a few hundred bux.
17:33 mircea_popescu they'll deliver. you just buy your sprat by the pellet rather than by the box as now. it keeps./
17:33 asciilifeform neato.
17:33 mircea_popescu it works better if you have half a dozen slavegirls with you ; buy ten tons of flour, have them make bread each day
17:34 asciilifeform incidentally, if this is a thing, how come nobody afaik uses old cargo ship as office space.
17:34 mircea_popescu flour also keeps ; esp at sea. ten tons will still only cost you a few thousand dollars, who cares.
17:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform some people do. it sucks.
17:34 asciilifeform where are the sad flotillas full of captive programmers etc.
17:34 mircea_popescu but that's because living on the sea sucks, not because the ships suck.
17:34 mircea_popescu there's MANY flotillas of sad shoe makers / tailors etc.
17:35 mircea_popescu hundreds of ships load raw materials in china deliver product in brazil and back and forth
17:35 mircea_popescu like a large sort of ant colony digesting leaves of denim
17:35 mircea_popescu the reason they're not programmers is that there's no useful value in programming.
17:35 asciilifeform what's the win from hosting the shoemakers on the ship per se ?
17:35 asciilifeform vs only the shoes
17:35 mircea_popescu it's entirely a social-media thing. boys "program" exactly like the girls "are popular"
17:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they can't leave.
17:36 mircea_popescu better work ethic.
17:36 asciilifeform and on land they can leave ?
17:36 mircea_popescu yes.
17:36 asciilifeform i suppose on the boat they cannot go to the pub etc.
17:36 mircea_popescu review the problems of running mines in the us cca 1800. dumbass minersd want to work a week and visit a brothel.
17:36 mircea_popescu this is plowing with chickens. they work for a year at a time not for a two hour stretch ; then you got a business.
17:38 asciilifeform that this was not yet done to programmers illustrates the 'nobody needs 'software industry' for very much, it would not cover the diesel' hypothesis.
17:38 mircea_popescu exactly.
17:38 asciilifeform then again, lawyers or stock traders are likewise not yet on the ship.
17:38 mircea_popescu programming is not an economic activity ; it has no value. it's a social activity, like clicking on lolpics or liking on facebook.
17:38 asciilifeform the mere fact of the absence of the slave ship does not tell us why.
17:38 mircea_popescu the govt distributes largesse for this and for that, so the mouthbreathers can keep going.
17:39 asciilifeform arguably making shoes for these selfsame people is likewise countereconomic.
17:39 asciilifeform even if the shoes - are real.
17:40 diana_coman <mircea_popescu> it's entirely a social-media thing. boys "program" exactly like the girls "are popular" <- only today I read in that sad ACM magazine that *used* to be a thing about the great discovery of "helping" children finally learn programming by...making it social!
17:40 diana_coman so myeah, spot on
17:40 mircea_popescu heh
17:41 diana_coman social as in social-media, ofc
17:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this isn't to say that there can't exist a market ; or that one can't write useful code.
17:41 mircea_popescu but the bullshit koch does ; or blizzard does ; or app development or etc ain't it
17:42 asciilifeform the activity as now extant resembles, more than anything, the building of the pyramids.
17:43 mircea_popescu not even vaguely. the activity resembles final middle school camp.
17:43 mircea_popescu all the boys are out in the forest jacking off, and all the girls are being mean to each other in circles of n-1
17:43 mircea_popescu but whatever, highschool's starting soon.
17:49 asciilifeform that makes it sound like harmless fun
17:49 asciilifeform which it, by and large, is not.
17:49 asciilifeform cleaning up the mess from the circle jerk will take 10,001 man-year of people of whom not even 100 are alive.
17:50 mircea_popescu not really. i already cleanned it up ; exactly in the way the spunk left behind by the teens is cleanned.
17:50 mircea_popescu "just don't go there" aka http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/
17:50 asciilifeform point finger != cleaned up.
17:51 mircea_popescu that's not it. just ... look, all this "work" that the prb derps think they're doing. it has no future. it isn't getting imported into bitcoin.
17:51 mircea_popescu they think they're important, fine. every teenager thinks himself important, and relevant to the world. the truth is none of them are either.
17:52 mircea_popescu this is universally true. a lot of "work" was "put" into myspace. so ? nobody cares, nobody uses it. same is true of google, or of facebook.
17:52 mircea_popescu maybe, vaguely, we might resurect something later that people who are really emotionalyl invested in their youth not having been wasted will misinterpret as "we took it from google".
17:52 asciilifeform before stomping a scorpion, i do not need to buy a new scorpion. but before shooting horse, i gotta buy a new horse.
17:52 mircea_popescu in point of fact, we didn't.
17:53 mircea_popescu this isn't a horse, or a scorpion. it's a fashion.
17:53 asciilifeform (e.g., the case of pgp)
17:53 mircea_popescu before not caring about random fashion, one needn't even know it exists. there are really NO prerequisites to simply not including bad code, caring abotu stupid social conventions etc.
17:54 asciilifeform or, more pointedly, the long and quite unpleasant surgery involved in undoing the idiocies of 'satoshi' derp, by no means complete even now
17:55 mircea_popescu i shall handwave again at you.
17:55 asciilifeform mega-argument.
17:56 asciilifeform 'don't go there' is very simple algo when you have another 'there' to which to do.
17:56 asciilifeform *to go.
17:57 mircea_popescu aha. hey, i'm a man of simple tastes. 120 tdw boat , dirigible... i always content myself with the very inaccessible.
17:59 asciilifeform for some reason my immediate mental image now is the legendary newly oil-rich bedouins who, supposedly, abandoned mercedes in the desert rather than bothering to refuel it
18:00 asciilifeform (refueling was seen as 'dirty' work, unfit for manly man etc.)
18:00 asciilifeform or so it went.
18:00 mircea_popescu heh
18:02 asciilifeform i have nfi if this tale is true, but there is another, steve dutch (geologist, i linked to a few of his pieces) reported that arabs initially had serious problems with oil well maintenance when no migrant worker could be found to wash a part, oil a machine, etc.
18:02 asciilifeform True Man would dirty his hands with no such thing. or sumthing.
18:03 mircea_popescu who knows. fact is romania had it made in the shade, exporting skilled workers + machined parts in exchange for straight out concessions. had its own oil field which it sucked with its own rigs, oil moved on its own boats to its own refineries
18:03 mircea_popescu how this came to pass is anyone's guess, but the arabs had a reputation for engineeringly inept.
18:03 asciilifeform same way, e.g., aramco came to exist.
18:04 mircea_popescu pretty much
18:05 mircea_popescu it's probably gay to wash things, who even knows.
18:05 asciilifeform this is not so far out.
18:05 mircea_popescu "i wash sword in blood of enemies and dick in ass of their wives. what need has true man for water ?"
18:05 asciilifeform picture, if you will, if tomorrow some tech were introduced that required operator to lactate.
18:06 mircea_popescu you mean like babies ?
18:06 asciilifeform well, no, some contrived item, closer to oil drilling.
18:10 asciilifeform http://oglaf.com/son-of-kronar << oblig.
~ 40 minutes ~
18:51 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-02#1533505 << this is sop for dudes who get their balls sucked with any kind of regularity. mebbe it's a bit pornstarish but it's the only way to live.
18:51 a111 Logged on 2016-09-02 04:08 boolcrap: what kind of man shaves their balls
18:55 pete_dushenski in other sexy news, the mpex 'speed bump' feature is catching on beyond iex. http://archive.is/0xOrx
18:58 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1532928 << /adds episode to list, mostly because all canada is doing is paying attention to trump.
18:58 a111 Logged on 2016-09-01 14:14 mircea_popescu: so i watched a southpark episode last night, it was one about how all the canadians moved to the us because they had elected a trump and canada was turned into a total detroit by his idiocy BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION, and it made me think of http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160831/from:98/to:98#98
18:58 pete_dushenski there's a lotta "if trump were elected i just wouldn't even know what to say or do" going around
18:59 pete_dushenski as if it isn't happening. or can just be "unhappened" if it inconveniently does
19:03 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-31#1532632 << wut, like i'm japanese master carpenter who doesn't even need nails to make timber structure stand for 1000 years ? hardly. anyways, the vanity is getting scrapped in favour of other reno prioritays.
19:03 a111 Logged on 2016-08-31 19:55 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Just shop for lumber and stone slabs. Teach the tot carpentry.
19:05 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1532649 << offline build script is mega nifty, mod6. i'll definitely be testing this out before long :)
19:05 a111 Logged on 2016-09-01 00:03 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-September/000232.html
19:05 shinohai Speed bump article is interesting pete_dushenski
19:06 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1532666 << thought this was plasticarwagon a la BingoBoingo at first. prolly citroen/peugeot upon further review.
19:06 a111 Logged on 2016-09-01 03:05 mircea_popescu: and in other excessive opulence news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_loa4f0dV5g1qmk4gro1_1280.jpg
19:07 shinohai leggz
19:08 pete_dushenski shinohai: ya not bad eh. each exchange is favouring different party. diversitay done right.
19:08 shinohai ^.^
19:09 * pete_dushenski enjoys guess the car from one curve/angle/snippet game
19:10 pete_dushenski speaking of the power of violence as a force for edumacation : http://archive.is/WiEYD
19:10 pete_dushenski "Once a Bucknell Professor, Now the Commander of an Ethiopian Rebel Army"
19:12 pete_dushenski somehow prof berhanu nega wasn't stopped at departure lounge for going to fight with 'isis or similar flavour of yogurt'. must be plumbook terrorist.
19:24 asciilifeform lel new colour revolution
19:26 pete_dushenski myup, which, like paris eating couscous, will result in washington eating injera
19:27 pete_dushenski "Nega insists that Ethiopia has “cooked the books,” and that its growth rate is largely attributable to huge infrastructure projects and Western development aid, with little contribution from the private sector." << all to protect reputation of bahamas homeland
19:35 pete_dushenski "Two months before Obama arrived, the government presided over what was widely considered a sham election, in which the ruling party won all 547 seats in Parliament, But Obama, making it clear that security trumped other concerns in the Horn of Africa, stood beside Meles’s successor, Prime Minister Hailemariam Desalegn, and described the government as being “democratically elected.”
19:38 pete_dushenski http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/1/17/Ep_109_starvinmarvin.gif/revision/latest?cb=20070818234354 << oblig. ethiopian
19:39 pete_dushenski "“If you like comfort, and that’s what drives you, you’ll never do this,” he told me, taking a sip of the ice-cold vodka. “But sometimes you get really surprised. Once you have a commitment to something, all these things that you thought were normal in your day-to-day life become unnecessary luxuries.”" << amen. spoken like a true terrorist.
19:40 pete_dushenski in fact, if anything defines a "terrorist" it's exactly this spitting in the face of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1533233
19:40 a111 Logged on 2016-09-01 20:36 mircea_popescu: "The sports casters are blaming back to school shopping, as if kids never before got outfitted for school at the and of August." << ahahaha. mno. as if anyone in the us has any money to spend. that's the big fucking point. usg.agitprop is talking about some wholly hallucinated shoping, that in their feverish imagination is so outsized as to keep people away from baseball even ?
19:40 mod6 <+pete_dushenski> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-01#1532649 << offline build script is mega nifty, mod6. i'll definitely be testing this out before long :) << thanks!
19:40 a111 Logged on 2016-09-01 00:03 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-September/000232.html
19:41 pete_dushenski at least ~one~ of the foundation chairs is pulling their weight :P
19:41 * pete_dushenski bbl
19:43 shinohai http://archive.is/Af8zl <<< should we add this to wp-mp mircea_popescu ?
~ 22 minutes ~
20:05 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Even hobbyist carpenters don't use nails
20:10 shinohai BingoBoingo: http://ix.io/1jsj
20:13 BingoBoingo ty
20:17 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/09/california-plans-anti-cattle-legislation/ << Qntra - California Plans Anti-Cattle Legislation
~ 56 minutes ~
21:13 mod6 $up Bugpowder
21:13 deedbot Bugpowder voiced for 30 minutes.
21:13 Bugpowder MOOOONEROOOOOO
21:13 mod6 werd up
21:14 Bugpowder its been a good week. why not qntra article on how monero is not the one true bitcoin yet?
21:15 Bugpowder Is trilema consensus that monero has some potential value in its feature set?
21:16 mod6 uh. i doubt it. can't speak for other tho.
21:16 mod6 wtf is monero?
21:16 Bugpowder yeah I doubt it too…
21:16 shinohai As asciilifeform says, I see nothing in monero even worth stealing
21:17 mircea_popescu shinohai but why ?
21:17 Bugpowder a cryptonote fork that provides user selectable transaction privacy, from public (like bitcoin) to fully private (only sender and recipient know) using ring encryption.
↖
21:18 mod6 ah, i saw something about that. it said: DRUG DEALERS LOVE THIS!
21:18 Bugpowder Alphabay and Oasis annouced support and the price went nuts
21:18 Bugpowder Although if you look on the sites, only 10% of vendors accept it.
21:18 mircea_popescu $s monero
21:18 a111 129 results for "monero", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=monero
21:18 mircea_popescu the logs be your friendz
21:19 mod6 ah, werd
21:19 Bugpowder and if every transaction from supporting vendors was paid with XMR, still only looking at $20,000 / day.
21:19 shinohai Nothing stands out to me as special about, has blockchain bloat, I'd rather use Bitcoin to buy drugs.
21:19 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160903/from:114/to:114#114 << the downside being that hair protects them from rub burns
↖
21:21 Bugpowder so price is not supported by fundamental use levels now. BUT, you know how price works in this space. Every alt is a tech stock valued on hype and growth potential. And hype is pretty high right now.
21:21 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160903/from:119/to:119#119 << as opposed to anything else whatsoever happening, right ? like, if a girl walks up to them and says hi. or if there's an angry mob. or whatever else.
21:21 mircea_popescu Bugpowder seems it has some chance to become the next usg-sponsored wanna-be bitcoin thingee. that's usually good for a ride, fed still has a lot of printolade to spread around.
21:22 mod6 for now, ya
21:22 mircea_popescu though it'd seem they've learned their etherape lesson and are much more conservative on the fiat side. prolly will be more like doge than ethereum. anyway.
21:22 Bugpowder doge and ether never got traction in DNMs.
21:23 mircea_popescu you are aware that "dnm"s are entirely a puppet show by now, yes ?
21:23 shinohai Why would you use ETH in a darknet market? Just huff the shit and call it a day.
21:24 Bugpowder I think its privacy features address some serious potential issues that Bitcoin has with fungability and anon unmasking thorough chain analysis.
21:25 Bugpowder Really. A puppet show? Is AlphaBay an FBI honeypot? A “Playpen” for drug users?
21:35 mircea_popescu Bugpowder looky : the original "dnm", ie silk road, never made any economic sense. and then went away. FOR THIS REASON. the subsequent attempts to enact this as a thing, including coming up with bullshit three letter acronyms, were strictly exercises in http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160902/from:404/to:404#404
21:36 mircea_popescu but whatever, i'm sure the derps involved think themselves finger-tenting lever clever for it.
21:36 mircea_popescu level*
21:37 mircea_popescu holy shit im becoming chinese.
21:38 mod6 haha
21:38 mircea_popescu mod6 http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqhtnzPLK41r24u1yo1_500.gif << saw this, thought of you.
21:39 mod6 Thanks, Sir. I like it!
21:39 Bugpowder Right, The Playpen operation. But there are so many DNMs, no way they are all honeypots. Now, some may be usgov inflitrated, tor may be usgov compromised, but I don’t think DNMs are driven by usgov.
↖
21:39 mircea_popescu Bugpowder sure, and there are so many bitcoin faucets, no way they're all trojan downloaders.
21:40 mircea_popescu of course not. except if they grow big. because what are you going to do, the model doesn't work.
21:41 mircea_popescu in the absence of economic drivers, there will either be a political driver or no movement. which leaves us with the simple explanation. i don't gotta prove that every single individual woman thought of dick up her ass every time she spent too much money on cosmetics.
21:41 mircea_popescu "it just makes her feel ... good. for... herself." surely.
21:41 Bugpowder DNMs provide a service to clients, make money for vendors and the host. The risks are assymetric to the reward, but so is swallowing 50 condoms of blow and flying into the US. Plenty of people’s life circumstances make the reward calculus more appealing than you or I might find.
21:43 mircea_popescu in principle this can be said about anything just as well ; whether that anything exists or doesn't.
21:43 mircea_popescu $up Bugpowder
21:43 deedbot Bugpowder voiced for 30 minutes.
21:43 mircea_popescu voice yourself would you.
21:44 Bugpowder In turn, Monero has potential to fix a weak point in DNM function, which potentially provides significant value. Now, whether the tech geniuses that order on DNMs or vendors have the savvy to implement properly and with enough volume to make economic sense is another matter.
21:44 mircea_popescu it's altogether unclear it fixes anything ; the controlling discussion re that is alf's smoke grenade.
↖
21:44 mircea_popescu but if you understand this ring signature thing past the buzzword level, feel free to introduce it rigurously and prove that claim.
↖
21:47 Bugpowder I haven’t invested enough time to understand and technically defend it. But I know people who are true professional on the subject (pre-Bitcoin “professionalization”) and will solicit their expertise on the current state and on RingCT.
21:48 mircea_popescu and this doesn't worry you ?
21:48 Bugpowder As for the controlling issue, coopting of the project is certainly a major risk moving forward, but I do think you have too much confidence in the sophistication and coordinatino of usgov.
21:49 mircea_popescu anyway, the allegation is that the "privacy" offered is very heavily time bound ; that it naturally dissipates over time ; and that after a sufficient interval - say a year - one can rely on any and all transaction being no longer at all private. this means that the monero ring signature is in fact an anti-feature : it makes the superficial user (who either foolishly doesn't invest the time ; or otherwise lacks the capacity a
21:49 mircea_popescu ltogether) to detrimentally rely on a property that is temporary when he needs it to be permanent.
21:49 mircea_popescu you know, a little like the adjustable arm mortgages.
21:50 Bugpowder It does worry me, but I put that into the known unknowns category of risks. And pricing risk adjusted EV, still makes sense for me to hold a signifcant crypto fraction in XMR as printer of new bitcoin. It’s harder these days to print BTC without MPOE-bot.
21:51 mircea_popescu which is why i said http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160903/from:177/to:177#177
21:52 Bugpowder So are you just chilling in Argentina on the spoils now… or do you have some new business/profit schemes?
21:53 mircea_popescu it's always been a mix of both.
21:55 Bugpowder well, let me know when the next interesting opportunity arises.
21:55 mircea_popescu hey, eulora is taking noobs.
21:58 Bugpowder u know i don’t got time fo that!
21:58 mircea_popescu well...
21:59 Bugpowder Alternatively, a mediterrainian Yacht party would be dope..
21:59 mircea_popescu you bringin' the girls ?
21:59 mircea_popescu "This faucet has A LOT of options. Since I don’t have time to write them all down I created a video explaining everything you need to know about the faucet" << this somehow made sense, to someone.
21:59 Bugpowder heheheh don’t they come with the boat?
21:59 mircea_popescu ok, so you bring the boat ?
22:00 Bugpowder Renting one might be possible.
22:00 mircea_popescu right.
22:00 Bugpowder getting the wife to agree… harder.
22:00 mircea_popescu o hey, how's that going ?
22:02 Bugpowder life good. she forgave me for Just Dice accident. 2 kids now. They are running around outside now… Just need to secure long term funding for work and I’m probably set.
22:03 mircea_popescu still in that biochem thing ? what was it, neurotransmitters ?
22:04 Bugpowder Something like that… neural circuits.
22:05 mircea_popescu a right.
22:06 mircea_popescu anyway, dun too easily dismiss eulora. unlike whatever-dice, it's actually for smart people.
22:06 Bugpowder OK OK. when grant writing is done, I will check it out. Is it like huntercoin? Too bad the dev for that died.
22:07 mircea_popescu he died ?!
22:07 mircea_popescu but no, it's bitcoin-mmo. and after a year+, playerbase has not yet the slightest clue re mechanics involved.
22:08 mircea_popescu statistics is hard, turns out. especially when god hates your guts.
22:09 Bugpowder I think he died and the project stalled. But my news is a year out of date. Haven’t been paying attention until ETH/ETC… and there is just tooo much stuff in the ecosystem to keep track of these days.
22:09 mircea_popescu chet (original cto) also passed this spring.
22:09 mircea_popescu apparently games are bad for health.
22:10 mod6 :[
22:11 Bugpowder My thesis advisor also died this week. 64. Smartest guy I’ve met.
22:12 mircea_popescu kinda young huh
22:13 Bugpowder yeah he had a bad stroke a few years ago. Mostly recovered, but may have hit him again on a bike ride.
22:13 Bugpowder http://www.nature.com/news/roger-tsien-s-legacy-the-creations-that-lit-up-biology-1.20532
22:13 mircea_popescu ah
22:25 mircea_popescu and in other news, saliva! http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llmjgkPaeE1qeox3uo1_1280.jpg
22:27 mod6 looks ready
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~
23:40 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-03#1533882 << is it a difficult concept that THERE IS NO SUCH THING as 'DNM', because there is no such thing as DN !?
23:40 a111 Logged on 2016-09-03 01:39 Bugpowder: Right, The Playpen operation. But there are so many DNMs, no way they are all honeypots. Now, some may be usgov inflitrated, tor may be usgov compromised, but I don’t think DNMs are driven by usgov.
23:40 asciilifeform there are no 'darknets'
23:41 asciilifeform it is not a thing.
23:41 asciilifeform and any chain of logic predicated on it being a thing, leads to ignominious usg captivity and arse waltz.
23:41 asciilifeform at best.
23:42 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-03#1533894 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-30#1532069
23:42 a111 Logged on 2016-09-03 01:44 mircea_popescu: but if you understand this ring signature thing past the buzzword level, feel free to introduce it rigurously and prove that claim.
23:42 a111 Logged on 2016-08-30 17:29 asciilifeform: davout: 'ring signatures' are not the promised 'invisibility cloak', but more of a smoke grenade.
23:42 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-03#1533893 << ah lel, we have it already.
23:42 a111 Logged on 2016-09-03 01:44 mircea_popescu: it's altogether unclear it fixes anything ; the controlling discussion re that is alf's smoke grenade.
23:43 asciilifeform the ~approach~ i am seeing among monerists - 'it's a black box, i'ma assume it does the claimed magic' is also concerning.
23:44 asciilifeform how many of the 'privacy!1111' fanbois took the time to understand the algo ?
23:44 asciilifeform it isn't complicated.
23:45 asciilifeform depressingly familiar mass delusion (quite like, e.g., the tor thing.)
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